PDA

View Full Version : Once and for all: Carr


johnny_tlmn
07-03-2006, 11:24 AM
By Kaiser Toro: This thread needs to serve as a lesson for those that are Carr supporters and Carr debate haters. The people who seem to want to make this a Carr thread in my opinion are not the Carr critics.

I recommend you stop perpetuating want you do not not want to read.


Here you go people, the once and for all poll on David Carr. Either you like him or don't and if you do or don't explain why. I like him he's our QB and thats final.:twocents:

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 11:27 AM
Here you go people, the once and for all poll on David Carr.

The 666th thread on Carr in the last 666 days. :brickwall

Just an estimation of course.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 11:32 AM
By Kaiser Toro: This thread needs to serve as a lesson for those that are Carr supporters and Carr debate haters. The people who seem to want to make this a Carr thread in my opinion are not the Carr critics.

I recommend you stop perpetuating want you do not not want to read.


Here you go people, the once and for all poll on David Carr. Either you like him or don't and if you do or don't explain why. I like him he's our QB and thats final.:twocents:

I feel sorry for the guy and I send my greatest sympathies to him, but no, I do not think he is the QB of the future for the Texans. I think you guys will draft Bady Quinn or Brian Brohm next year and they will be the QB of the future.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 11:37 AM
Spoken like a true Titans fan. You're hoping that so ol' bud can take Carr, huh?! :rolleyes:

The only thing I like about Bud is that he brought the Titans here. Other than that, he's a moron and knows nothing about football.

thegr8fan
07-03-2006, 11:40 AM
uh, yeah, I really see Carr going to TN after they just drafted Vince Young this year.

come to think of it, your probably right. Carr will be a very good backup QB on some team for a decade or so. Or there will be the team that see's his 'potential' yet again and give's him a start or two before seeing his 'reality' and benching him.

texan279
07-03-2006, 11:40 AM
I'll bet the farm this won't be the "end all Carr threads" about Carr.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 11:42 AM
Carr = Joey Harrington = Mediocrity = good backups

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 11:46 AM
Carr = Joey Harrington = Mediocrity = good backups

Come on dude, that's a little harsh isn't it? Harrington has had a much better chance to succeed than DC has had. Even with the moron Matt Millen they've been able to put decent players on the field.:brickwall

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 11:56 AM
Titans=Bud Adams=To LA we go.

So a team that has sold out EVERY home game since coming to Nashville is now moving to LA? Wow, maybe we should start making people sit in each others laps so we can sell more tickets cause man it seems like we aren't making enough money.

jerek
07-03-2006, 11:59 AM
Carr = Joey Harrington = Mediocrity = good backups

I can't wait to see your very own Vince the Immortal Slayer of Night Young in action this year.

It's been awhile since we've started a Vince Young thread. I think I'll start one now. Better yet I'll go troll the Titans board and start one there.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 12:02 PM
I can't wait to see your very own Vince the Immortal Slayer of Night Young in action this year.

It's been awhile since we've started a Vince Young thread. I think I'll start one now.

I'd much rather take my chances with Vince Young than Carr. Don't get mad that your organization passed on two of the best college football players in history. And yes, Vince did have a better college career than Carr. Just look at your own forum poll under "who had the better college career"

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 12:11 PM
I'd much rather take my chances with Vince Young than Carr. Don't get mad that your organization passed on two of the best college football players in history. And yes, Vince did have a better college career than Carr. Just look at your own forum poll under "who had the better college career"

Two of which are unproven in the NFL. Kinda like Carr is still unproven.:brickwall

jerek
07-03-2006, 12:12 PM
I'd much rather take my chances with Vince Young than Carr. Don't get mad that your organization passed on two of the best college football players in history. And yes, Vince did have a better college career than Carr. Just look at your own forum poll under "who had the better college career"

That's fine if you'd rather take your chances on Young. I'd rather you take your chances on Young too. Questions of his sub-retarded Wonderlic and borderline arrogance aside, honestly, I think he'll be a good and possibly great quarterback at some point. And I appreciate that you note "two of the best college players" ... that at least is an honest assessment, especially in contrast to the VINCE CAN SCORE AT WILL AGAINST ANYBODY!!1 leg humping that characterized this MB for weeks like leprosy.

VY will probably be great, and I think David Carr will be a great quarterback too. As far as Reggie Moneybags Bush, I couldn't be happier that we passed on him. especially that we did it in favor of Mario Williams. Kubiak's system has very efficiently proven you don't need an all-world running back and his 50M salary to be highly successful on offense. As for VY -- no offense -- but I hope he fails spectacularly. That he probably will not fail should make for an excellent rivalry in the years to come. Enjoy the Titans until Bud moves them ... and FWIW, I hope you score an expansion team to replace them.

jerek
07-03-2006, 12:15 PM
I'll bet the farm this won't be the "end all Carr threads" about Carr.

Come rain or shine, as surely as the sun rises. David Carr could land in the Pro Bowl every year from here on out and there are still people on this board who will bemoan us passing VY. Many more that suddenly are "fans."

Interesting the life these things take on. Almost an experiment in psychology to observe them.

trane
07-03-2006, 12:17 PM
Here you go people, the once and for all poll on David Carr. Either you like him or don't and if you do or don't explain why. I like him he's our QB and thats final.:twocents:[/QUOTE]

I like Carr and I think he can get the job done. I also think he has been unfairly criticized. However, It is rare for a QB to play in this league and not get some criticism at some point in time. Either you are viewed as not being talented, stats are not up to par, always injured, or you can't win the big game. The only QB's I can think of that have received hardly any criticism was Joe Montana and Troy Aikman. Carr just needs to put his past behind him and go out and peform.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 12:22 PM
That's fine if you'd rather take your chances on Young. I'd rather you take your chances on Young too. Questions of his sub-retarded Wonderlic and borderline arrogance aside, honestly, I think he'll be a good and possibly great quarterback at some point. And I appreciate that you note "two of the best college players" ... that at least is an honest assessment, especially in contrast to the VINCE CAN SCORE AT WILL AGAINST ANYBODY!!1 leg humping that characterized this MB for weeks like leprosy.

VY will probably be great, and I think David Carr will be a great quarterback too. As far as Reggie Moneybags Bush, I couldn't be happier that we passed on him. especially that we did it in favor of Mario Williams. Kubiak's system has very efficiently proven you don't need an all-world running back and his 50M salary to be highly successful on offense. As for VY -- no offense -- but I hope he fails spectacularly. That he probably will not fail should make for an excellent rivalry in the years to come. Enjoy the Titans until Bud moves them ... and FWIW, I hope you score an expansion team to replace them.

That's some funny stuff right there:highfive:

BuffSoldier
07-03-2006, 12:24 PM
This is my last time posting this because it becominng a little rediculouse.

Things that make Carrr worth the #1 pick.


He has a cannon for an arm that gives him the ability to make all the throws
Maybe not VY but Carr is still very mobile, he was still in the top 5 for rushing QBs
He throws a very good deep ball, its just up to our receivers to go and catch it ( corey bradford)
He has very good, but not great intermediate accuracy
He doesnt force INTs, he rather dump it off to the RB for 6 yards


Also alot of Carr's INTs come while throwing while runing from defenders or while being hit. Carr has a very good work ethic and never gives up. He has a very good attitude and is passionate about the game. Well just wait until the season starts and see what Carr does when he actually has a couple of pro-bowl WRs, a very good RB, a decent TE, and for the first time,hopefully some protection.

The Pencil Neck
07-03-2006, 12:42 PM
Either you like him or don't and if you do or don't explain why.

I like him. I think he's tough. I think he's got all the physical and mental tools to be a very good (and possibly great) quarterback. I think that he just needs the right training and tutelage and the right team to realize that potential and I hope that this regime and team are exactly what he needs.

My fear is that he's been beaten around so much that he's been irreparably damaged.

BlueThunder
07-03-2006, 12:48 PM
I'm blaming all of Davids Carr's problems on the coaching staff.Even knowing the line had problems they continued to run the same type system.I think Carr has enough talent to drive the bus and should have never been started out like he was.

We need to go back to the basics and build his confidence running a system with a balanced attack.I just think to much has been put on the QB and I think we should scale him down and use the running game more..

I myself am learning a lot about this team but it seams like to much was expected of the QB.I could be wrong listening to the experts but we have this year to find out if were going to be able to win with this guy.

Where i'm getting at, is take pressure off the line with fast developing plays and give more responsibility to the nuclius of the offense.We have to mix things up and spread it out more it seams like we weren't getting enough weapons involved and didn't have a viable outlet.This team the offense has to be more aware of whats going on with the QB and give him outlets when he gets in trouble.

Texan Asylum
07-03-2006, 12:51 PM
Voted for Carr, and will from here on out, till he retires a TEXAN. That is the kind of confidence we should have in our team.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 12:56 PM
Voted for Carr, and will from here on out, till he retires a TEXAN. That is the kind of confidence we should have in our team.

Having confidence in your team and a player can be exclusive of one another.

Texan Asylum
07-03-2006, 01:00 PM
Having confidence in your team and a player can be exclusive of one another.
Agreed, excuse my statement of absoluteness.:hides: That's what seems to work for me. :)

OzzO
07-03-2006, 01:20 PM
Worthy? Of what? Long term QB for Texans? Another year to see what he can do?

I'll go with QB for Texans - worthy. Since being with the Texans, he's not been in the "elite" range of the upper eschelon of QB's, but I think for 3 years of his tenure (not necessarily in a row) in was in the middle of the pack as far as QB rating. There have been the Manning's, Culpepper's, McNabb's obviously above him which is a nice to have, but there have been a few "eh's" above him as well that didn't necessarily lead their team to the chosen land. Plus, he's pretty stable to play an entire season even though his previous o-line and coaches didn't do much to assist with his growth in the NFL.

The things said about him during his college years give some hope as well...
Fresno State: Perhaps the top quarterback in college football during the 2001 season … a fantastic athlete with an NFL-caliber arm … mixes a powerfully built frame with an ability to remain agile in the pocket … a great natural athlete who runs well and can make big plays through the air and on the ground … throws the deep ball extremely well … was as important to his team’s fortunes as anyone, evidenced by the fact that he led the nation in points responsible for … can always find the open receiver, even if he has to check off to his third or fourth target … established numerous Fresno State single-season records this year ….

(2001) Started and played in all 14 games and was perhaps the nation’s best quarterback … had one of the most outstanding statistical seasons for a quarterback ever … became just the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to throw for 4,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. He had 4,839 passing yards and 46 touchdowns, both tops in the nation … exploded in the Silicon Valley Football Classic, completing 35-of-56 passes for a career-high 531 yards and four touchdowns … threw for at least 300 yards in 11 of 14 games, including 10 of the last 11 … finished third in the nation in completions with 343 … received numerous postseason awards,...… had three 400-yard passing games, including a 432-yard, six-touchdown performance in two-and-a-half quarters in the regular season finale against Utah State …... has been tabbed by ESPN’s Mel Kiper as one of the top quarterbacks to be taken in the upcoming NFL Draft … completed passes to 12 different Bulldogs, including 10 for touchdowns.

Carr's 2001 Awards

Johnny Unitas Award
Football News Offensive Player of the Year
Sammy Baugh Award
WAC Offensive Player of the Year
First-team All-WAC
CNN/SI Honorable mention All-American
Sixth player ever with at least 4,000 passing yards/40 TDs
First in the nation in passing yards (4,308) and TDs (42)
USA Today National Player of the Week (Oct. 3)...

go bulldogs site (http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fgobulldogs.ocsn.com% 2Fsports%2Fm-footbl%2Fmtt%2Fcarr_david00.html)

While he may not hit the "elite" levels in the NFL - I'm feeling he'll be the quality leader and "gets it done" level which may be enough if he gets the quality additions to the team that has been needed (and known by the fans) for some time now. He's not the chosen puzzle piece, but he's a good fit - plus till otherwise known - he's a Texan and multiple sources outside Texas and even our newest coach notes he has what it takes.

Koolbrz
07-03-2006, 01:43 PM
This is my last time posting this because it becominng a little rediculouse.

Things that make Carrr worth the #1 pick.


He has a cannon for an arm that gives him the ability to make all the throws
Maybe not VY but Carr is still very mobile, he was still in the top 5 for rushing QBs
He throws a very good deep ball, its just up to our receivers to go and catch it ( corey bradford)
He has very good, but not great intermediate accuracy
He doesnt force INTs, he rather dump it off to the RB for 6 yards


Also alot of Carr's INTs come while throwing while runing from defenders or while being hit. Carr has a very good work ethic and never gives up. He has a very good attitude and is passionate about the game. Well just wait until the season starts and see what Carr does when he actually has a couple of pro-bowl WRs, a very good RB, a decent TE, and for the first time,hopefully some protection.



I'm with you brother!!! Carr will have an above avg. yr this yr. He now has the tools he needs to work with. His numbers will improve and so will the team. All you Carr haters keep on hating, when the time comes don't be jumping on the Carr bandwagon. Gonna make you look kinda stupid, know what i mean.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 01:49 PM
I'm with you brother!!! Carr will have an above avg. yr this yr. He now has the tools he needs to work with. His numbers will improve and so will the team. All you Carr haters keep on hating, when the time comes don't be jumping on the Carr bandwagon. Gonna make you look kinda stupid, know what i mean.

I would like to think that the Carr Haters are really Carr Waiters. We are all waiting to see all of the greatness that you have seen in College and in the NFL. Some of us are getting up in years and just cannot see it as well as many on this board who tend to be charter customers of the Fresno Fantasy Football Camp.

AggieTexanFan
07-03-2006, 02:02 PM
The one thing that makes Carr stand above the other QBS of the game is his ability to get up and rarely be injured.

If every QB in the leauge took the exact same hits Carr has taken in the past 4 years, over half of them probably wouldn't even be in the NFL today.

That's one thing you have to give Carr, he can take a hit and his passion for the game and toughness allows him to keep getting up.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 02:08 PM
The one thing that makes Carr stand above the other QBS of the game is his ability to get up and rarely be injured.

If every QB in the leauge took the exact same hits Carr has taken in the past 4 years, over half of them probably wouldn't even be in the NFL today.

That's one thing you have to give Carr, he can take a hit and his passion for the game and toughness allows him to keep getting up.

Do you have any data to support this? If you have this data have you taken out the sacks that were credited to the team even though he ran out of bounds behind the LOS?

I really do not recall him getting leveled (highlight film fodder) many times. In fact I would say that David has one of the better duck and cover moves in the NFL and that he does indeed mirror future hall of famer Brett Favre in this trait.

El Tejano
07-03-2006, 02:35 PM
If guys like Trent Dilfer can win a SB, and guys like Hassleback can eventually become solid QBs in this league, Carr can do the same.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 02:41 PM
If guys like Trent Dilfer can win a SB, and guys like Hassleback can eventually become solid QBs in this league, Carr can do the same.

Hopefully as that is what we have to live with. My only issue with your line of logic is that they were not paying Dilfer or Hasselback 7 million dollars a year from the start of their career.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 02:45 PM
The one thing that makes Carr stand above the other QBS of the game is his ability to get up and rarely be injured.

If every QB in the leauge took the exact same hits Carr has taken in the past 4 years, over half of them probably wouldn't even be in the NFL today.

That's one thing you have to give Carr, he can take a hit and his passion for the game and toughness allows him to keep getting up.

Due to the amount of sacks he's received I think it'll eventually catch up to him in the future. Kinda like Mcnair. Although there's a good point in saying that a majority of these hits were kinda wimpy. Last year I think he got to the point he was shell shocked and just sorta ducked and hit the ground.:crutch:

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 02:54 PM
Worthy? Of what? Long term QB for Texans? Another year to see what he can do?

I'll go with QB for Texans - worthy. Since being with the Texans, he's not been in the "elite" range of the upper eschelon of QB's, but I think for 3 years of his tenure (not necessarily in a row) in was in the middle of the pack as far as QB rating. There have been the Manning's, Culpepper's, McNabb's obviously above him which is a nice to have, but there have been a few "eh's" above him as well that didn't necessarily lead their team to the chosen land. Plus, he's pretty stable to play an entire season even though his previous o-line and coaches didn't do much to assist with his growth in the NFL.

The things said about him during his college years give some hope as well...


go bulldogs site (http://football.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fgobulldogs.ocsn.com% 2Fsports%2Fm-footbl%2Fmtt%2Fcarr_david00.html)

While he may not hit the "elite" levels in the NFL - I'm feeling he'll be the quality leader and "gets it done" level which may be enough if he gets the quality additions to the team that has been needed (and known by the fans) for some time now. He's not the chosen puzzle piece, but he's a good fit - plus till otherwise known - he's a Texan and multiple sources outside Texas and even our newest coach notes he has what it takes.


You guys need to forget his college career. His college career means nothing now. I don't care if he holds every record in college football history, he has 4 YEARS under his belt in the NFL and that's what he should be judged by to this point.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 02:58 PM
You guys need to forget his college career. His college career means nothing now. I don't care if he holds every record in college football history, he has 4 YEARS under his belt in the NFL and that's what he should be judged by to this point.

I think you're:deadhorse He hasn't had a chance to prove himself. They've now given him weapons and a better line as well as an offensive minded coach. Let him run a legit offense and then we'll judge next year or the year after.

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 03:01 PM
Blah Blah....................42 out of 9 right now think he is "Worthy". NEXT.

Can we talk about Carr as apart of the Texans now.:rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 03:05 PM
I think you're:deadhorse He hasn't had a chance to prove himself. They've now given him weapons and a better line as well as an offensive minded coach. Let him run a legit offense and then we'll judge next year or the year after.

Andre Johnson was a Pro Bowler his second year (2004) and his RB was the Rookie of the Year (2003). I do not think it has ever been a question of not having weapons on this offense. If you think it has, then you must throw DC in there as well. Coaching and chemistry are the culprits in my opinion.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 03:14 PM
Andre Johnson was a Pro Bowler his second year (2004) and his RB was the Rookie of the Year (2003). I do not think it has ever been a question of not having weapons on this offense. If you think it has, then you must throw DC in there as well. Coaching and chemistry are the culprits in my opinion.

I beleive I mentioned coaching. You think having only one WR is considered a weapon? Now throw in another WR of equal talent as well as a third that has to be better than what we had and then you have a weapon. I consider the WR corp as a whole to be a weapon. not just one. You didn't mention anything about our line last year so I assume you're ok with it the way it was? This is only discussion and I mean no disrespect.:stirpot:

Ibar_Harry
07-03-2006, 03:17 PM
Andre Johnson was a Pro Bowler his second year (2004) and his RB was the Rookie of the Year (2003). I do not think it has ever been a question of not having weapons on this offense. If you think it has, then you must throw DC in there as well. Coaching and chemistry are the culprits in my opinion.

I agree with coaching and chemistry, but I disagree with you on the weapons issue. Sounds like Iraq war doesn't it. Anyway, the Texans had two weapons on offense besides Carr. The other teams had to only worry about AJ and DD. The message was simply keep them in front of you. Occassionaly someone else hurt the defense, but not AJ and DD. Of course the Texans coaching staff helped the cause by not going long to AJ. They were contented to dump the ball down to AJ and DD. 11 on 2 is pretty good odds for the defense. Yes, we had a line, but they weren't going to occupy the attention of many with the inept coaching they had and the inept alignment and choice of players playing on the line. No, Carr really hasn't had much to work with until now.

I keep saying our new receiver core is here for a reason and other teams had better beware. If they aren't we will eat them alive. I think Kubiak is going to throw more than people think. How many teams can put two pro bowl receivers on the line at the same time. Yes, Moulds might be a little long in tooth, but he will get open and he will get the ball if its anywhere near him. AJ can and will learn a lot from Moulds. Do not under estimate what Moulds will do for Carr's confidence.

Mr. White
07-03-2006, 03:20 PM
This thread set the way-back machine to March 2006....insert the crystals.....

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 03:25 PM
Coaching stank and the players knew it, they knew when other teams with less talent did better, they are not stupid.

It is hard to be consestent with a very predictable Offense or even Defense.

I am telling you 10+ WINS is NOT far fatched for this club this year.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-03-2006, 03:32 PM
Well you guys bring up his college career everytime we discuss him. Why don't we just bring up what he did in high school? We should toss some middle school in there too.

He was drafted in 2001, 5 years ago. That was a long time ago. He has been an NFL QB for 4 years now.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 03:34 PM
I beleive I mentioned coaching. You think having only one WR is considered a weapon? Now throw in another WR of equal talent as well as a third that has to be better than what we had and then you have a weapon. I consider the WR corp as a whole to be a weapon. not just one. You didn't mention anything about our line last year so I assume you're ok with it the way it was? This is only discussion and I mean no disrespect.:stirpot:

I have mentioned it before that I feel that our line is much more talented than the results have shown due to being played out of position and having no coherent scheme for long term success. Being put in the dog house (Wand) by a coach who is a dog (Pendry) can be looked over, which Sherman seems to be doing. I do have optimism for the line given the players will be in positions they are comfortable with, challenging new rooks in Spencer and Winston and a Center who will be a coach on the field given his understanding of the new O-Line coaches scheme, terminology and expectations. At the very least we should have a unit that is on the same page this year.

We had Gaffney who was good for us when thrown to. However, Moulds is a big upgrade over Gaff or Bradford.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 03:42 PM
I have mentioned it before that I feel that our line is much more talented than the results have shown due to being played out of position and having no coherent scheme for long term success. Being put in the dog house (Wand) by a coach who is a dog (Pendry) can be looked over, which Sherman seems to be doing. I do have optimism for the line given the players will be in positions they are comfortable with, challenging new rooks in Spencer and Winston and a Center who will be a coach on the field given his understanding of the new O-Line coaches scheme, terminology and expectations. At the very least we should have a unit that is on the same page this year.

We had Gaffney who was good for us when thrown to. However, Moulds is a big upgrade over Gaff or Bradford.

I agree with everything said here. I too am optimistic of our line this year. I do question the ability and speed of Wade. Where do you project him playing this year? If my memory serves me correct there were several times he was totally beat by the speed rush from the outside while playing tackle.

Ibar_Harry
07-03-2006, 03:48 PM
I agree with everything said here. I too am optimistic of our line this year. I do question the ability and speed of Wade. Where do you project him playing this year? If my memory serves me correct there were several times he was totally beat by the speed rush from the outside while playing tackle.

He's probably a reserve on this year's squad. All indications are he will not start. He really is not a good fit in the O-line scheme we are expected to utilize.

powerfuldragon
07-03-2006, 03:53 PM
IMO, this season is david's last chance.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 04:10 PM
Well you guys bring up his college career everytime we discuss him. Why don't we just bring up what he did in high school? We should toss some middle school in there too.
He was drafted in 2001, 5 years ago. That was a long time ago. He has been an NFL QB for 4 years now.

Might as well that's about the level the team played at last year.:sarcasm:

We'll give him a chance with a NFL level coaching staff.

threetoedpete
07-03-2006, 04:24 PM
I'm with you brother!!! Carr will have an above avg. yr this yr. He now has the tools he needs to work with. His numbers will improve and so will the team. All you Carr haters keep on hating, when the time comes don't be jumping on the Carr bandwagon. Gonna make you look kinda stupid, know what i mean.
I'm on this list too. Well written. :grouphug: 27 TD's 12 INts.

TwinSisters
07-03-2006, 05:00 PM
http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?searchName=Lemmus+sibiricus

or perhaps the Synaptomys cooperi

TexansLucky13
07-03-2006, 05:14 PM
Yet ANOTHER Carr thread! :hides:

The numbers speak volumes. The clear majority think David is worthy. Yay.

South Texan
07-03-2006, 05:15 PM
Want eyestrain? Just read all the Carr threads on here.

Potential doesn't win games, performance does.

One player does not a team make... in other words, ya can't do it alone. (Anyone think Reggie Bush will carry N.O. to the Super Bowl this year?)

I have to ask myself, how well would Brady or Manning have done in Carr's shoes. He got tossed to the lions from day 1, with a coaching staff that was filling his pockets up with raw meat.

His attitude still seems good (He's not making excuses and dissing the team from what I have heard.).

David's never had a good O-Line, multiple talented WR's, etc., etc.

On the other hand, he probably could have avoided some of those sacks last year.

Yep, I voted Duh, Don't know on the poll.

So till at least game 10 this year, I still will be thinking of him as The Great Unknown. :confused:

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 05:21 PM
Want eyestrain? Just read all the Carr threads on here.

Potential doesn't win games, performance does.

One player does not a team make... in other words, ya can't do it alone. (Anyone think Reggie Bush will carry N.O. to the Super Bowl this year?)

I have to ask myself, how well would Brady or Manning have done in Carr's shoes. He got tossed to the lions from day 1, with a coaching staff that was filling his pockets up with raw meat.

His attitude still seems good (He's not making excuses and dissing the team from what I have heard.).

David's never had a good O-Line, multiple talented WR's, etc., etc.

On the other hand, he probably could have avoided some of those sacks last year.

Yep, I voted Duh, Don't know on the poll.

So till at least game 10 this year, I still will be thinking of him as The Great Unknown. :confused:

Ditto to this, couldn't have said it any better.:texans:

TwinSisters
07-03-2006, 05:29 PM
We need a poll for Volek Vs Carr.

Who has more Fresno fans? Dave or Billy?

What happens in week 8? Is it the Fresno Bowl? Battle of the Back-up Bulldogs?
Must or Bust Bowl? The Potential Energy Bowl. The More or Less Bowl, the winner has less potential, the loser has more! The Everybody Wins ( even when you are losing ) Bowl.

Dime
07-03-2006, 05:31 PM
I have always been a Carr Hater! I am not opposed to giving this guy one last chance. As I have said the last 2 billion posts.. If it was potential, I would be up on this guy. Maybe it was a training issue, but his ball placement and decision making is still sub-par at best right now. He could be good, but he aint yet.. He has alot to learn still and I hope the new coaching staff can help. I hope he can come back, but he has a long way to come and I feel he is running out of time.

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 05:37 PM
Well you guys bring up his college career everytime we discuss him. Why don't we just bring up what he did in high school? We should toss some middle school in there too.

He was drafted in 2001, 5 years ago. That was a long time ago. He has been an NFL QB for 4 years now.
Carr has had to go through more then just your average NFL QB troubles, too bad for him he was not picked by a Superbowl caliber team that was 1 year a way from a SB Championship.

You want to talk about taking the LONG WAY, Hard way around something, take a look at Carr and what he has been through. Expantion team Rookie QB, how many of those are or were there in the history of the NFL......AHHHHH "1"......David Carr.

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 05:39 PM
82% Now Can We Stop?

TwinSisters
07-03-2006, 05:45 PM
Carr has had to go through more then just your average NFL QB troubles, too bad for him he was not picked by a Superbowl caliber team that was 1 year a way from a SB Championship.

You want to talk about taking the LONG WAY, Hard way around something, take a look at Carr and what he has been through. Expantion team Rookie QB, how many of those are or were there in the history of the NFL......AHHHHH "1"......David Carr.

Ugh Are you forgetting someone?

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=209
Wasn't really sacked that much either

he even wrote a book on it...
"Better Scramble than Lose" by Fran Tarkenton

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 05:49 PM
Ugh Are you forgetting someone?

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=209
Wasn't really sacked that much either

he even wrote a book on it...
"Better Scramble than Lose" by Fran Tarkenton
O, yea my bad.

BUT he did not have Chris Palmer for his OC.........:cool:

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 05:50 PM
Ugh Are you forgetting someone?

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=209
Wasn't really sacked that much either

he even wrote a book on it...
"Better Scramble than Lose" by Fran Tarkenton

He was awful and not fun to watch. Could not run or scramble as well as our inaugural pick either. :rolleyes:

TwinSisters
07-03-2006, 06:01 PM
He was awful and not fun to watch. Could not run or scramble as well as our inaugural pick either. :rolleyes:

He made the Pro Bowl MVP in his 4th season.

He had a so so coach in his first years with Van Brocklin, BUT he had a terrible team around him! ( in New York too ) It wasn't until Grant came along did things start to shape up for the Vikings. Tarkenton however, shined where ever he went ( 9 total Pro Bowls ).

Different time?... yes it was.

---

Also I want to point out another Carr theme that I peddle with great quarterbacks. Fran did not get along with Van Brocklin. ( Also Van Brocklin is not in the HOF for his coaching ability, he is there as a player.. just in case that gets confusing )

EDIT:

After going back and looking at him again... Tarkenton also had two Pro-Bowl OL with him in his 4th year! It's Casserly man, all Casserly... nobody would be here without him. Ain't that the truth...

BigTimeTexanFan
07-03-2006, 06:16 PM
Well you guys bring up his college career everytime we discuss him. Why don't we just bring up what he did in high school? We should toss some middle school in there too.

He was drafted in 2001, 5 years ago. That was a long time ago. He has been an NFL QB for 4 years now.

Carr was drafted in 2002. This will be his 5th season. Just thought I'd point that out

Wolf
07-03-2006, 06:34 PM
Carr has the tools to get the job done.. He has some weapons around him now and at least on paper an offensive line that is legit

It is up to Kubiak to use some of his magic and get Carr's head straight (i.e. get the game to slow down for him and watch downfield and not the rush)

Biggest improvements that should bolster Carr's performance (I would think he should be in line with his stats of 2004)

obvious is AJ and DD
next best improvement Moulds instead of Bradford(too bad Gaffney didn't stay, I like him as slot receiver)
A legit Center... maybe Flannigan can keep the DT from collapsing the pocket in front of Carr

and most important on my list for Carr's development.. legit 2 way TE's

Wolf
07-03-2006, 06:56 PM
I hope I am not wrong ,but my last post, I jumped ahead of myself..the actual most improvement that needs to happen is Kubiak getting Carr's head on straight (the ole seeing downfield instead of the rush..and just letting the game slow down for him)..like it did in college after he redshirted

Honoring Earl 34
07-03-2006, 07:04 PM
The fact is Carr and Mario are a better option than Fran and Vince .

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 08:38 PM
I hope I am not wrong ,but my last post, I jumped ahead of myself..the actual most improvement that needs to happen is Kubiak getting Carr's head on straight (the ole seeing downfield instead of the rush..and just letting the game slow down for him)..like it did in college after he redshirted
`The reason he looked down field in College is because he did not have to worry about getting killed.

I might be wrong but I think the guy was sacked 7 times his SR. Year. "7"

HJam72
07-03-2006, 09:20 PM
We're supposed to comment, so I'll just say that I think Carr will prove himself to be at least an avg., starting, reliable QB this year. We'll discuss it when we have something new to discuss for a change.

Wolf
07-03-2006, 09:26 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6333

has some interesting posts about Carr and some of the things being reported on the radio

Hulk75
07-03-2006, 10:01 PM
Wow then next year it was what like 76?! Warm welcome to the NFL huh Carr?! Thats a quick turn around.
Yea NO kidding..........

The guy CAN play at a great level, just keep him on his feet and just give the guy a REAL chance to show it.

powerfuldragon
07-03-2006, 10:12 PM
Asking a texans MB if they think carr will be good this year is like asking Jesse Jackson if he likes to talk.

thegr8fan
07-04-2006, 02:39 AM
There you have it folks, 85% say yes for David Carr so therefore that proves thegr8fan and titan "tacky" wrong. I don't post as much over here, BigTex. So I doubt alot of current members know that I think Carr sucks, unless they are the older members of this board.

and all this poll proves is 85% of the respondants don't know the difference between a real NFL QB, and a 'has been that never was' QB, like Carr. :tease:

Exactly, I just can't assume who'd vote no thats what intrigues me the most. I bet you can assume which way I voted. :stirpot:

mancunian
07-04-2006, 03:05 AM
The Titan fan sent me a PM asking what I thought of DC and why I was behind him this was my reply:

Well your right he hasn't set the world on fire yet, but this coming season will prove whether he can do it.

Dont get me wrong I'm not blind to his faults, his decision making needs to improve for a start but I believe he has the ability to be a very good QB. He's no Manning or Brady but he can be in the top 10.

There's one game that stands out for me which was the Vikings game the season before last where he orchestrated a comeback to take it into OT and if I remember that same year he also played a blinder against the Titans.

For four years the previous coaching staff ignored the O line - and we gave up over 200 sacks in 4 years!! Some of those were Carr's fault - running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for example. But 4 years of being pounding is going to make you feel a little shaky.

Kubiak I think can restore that confidence, he's building an Oline that can protect our QB and we have seen in the past that when he is given time Carr is as good as 90% of the QB's in the league.

Look at Mike Vicks figures for last year and compare them to Carrs. There's very little in it, in fact Carr had a higher % completion rate - just over 60% where Vick was around the mid 50's.

I'm not the only Texan that supports Carr, and I know there a few that dont rate him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he is the QB of the team I support.

However if can't or doesn't improve behind a revamped O line and under a offensive minded coach then I'll admit I was wrong and that Carr is not the answer.

Dime
07-04-2006, 05:02 AM
Exactly, I just can't assume who'd vote no thats what intrigues me the most.:confused:

Have to be the "not-die-hard Texan fans."

Oh... so I am not a Texans fan now for voting my feelings on Carr. Or at least not a die heart fan you say. I say your full of 'insert creative explitive here' and to call me any less then a die-hard fan is the worst statement you have made on this board. If you believe in Carr, I wont down you, I just feel you are incorrect on what he can do. Could he be a contender for being a great QB, oh yes he could. But right now.. he is so far from being one, you need to see the light. His passes are strong, but are inaccurate enough for me. His ball placement makes some WR's take hits they shouldnt and other passes are just horrible. His consistance is lacking, and he has at times been a drive killer, instead of a play maker. Dont even get me started on his decision making abilities. Can coaching help, yes. Even I have said I would like to see him this year to see if he can produce. If he has a oline, and can stand up for a few seconds to make a pass, and still cant get it done.. then there will be no excuses.

By the way.. in case you missed it.. I voted NO. I am probably one of the dozens of the strongest fans they have, and to question that shows... no... I will hold my tongue for now.

bigtex77
07-04-2006, 07:13 AM
I don't post as much over here, Big Tex.

Did I miss something? Or are you talking to someone else?

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 08:33 AM
`The reason he looked down field in College is because he did not have to worry about getting killed.

I might be wrong but I think the guy was sacked 7 times his SR. Year. "7"

Carr had problems with the rush in college. He was sacked 30 times his SR year and 25 times his JR year, which is a lot of sacks for a college QB. Too, his SR year he rushed 94 times for 67 yds (.7 avg), which is a clear indication he was trying to avoid the rush and means he was very close to having a 'bunch' of sacks. Remember, though, he will not be strictly a pocket passer in Kubiak's offense, as he will be throwing on the run by desgn---something Carr has never done before.

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 08:49 AM
There you have it folks, 85% say yes for David Carr so therefore that proves thegr8fan and titan "tacky" wrong.:bananasplit:

You know I had to prove to ya'll that Carr is here to stay, regardless the way he's played has not been entirely his fault at all.

Your poll was the easy part and in no way guarantees Carr's performance next year or there after. It's kinda like writing Santa a letter for a horse, and then waking up Christmas Day to find he left you one of those sticks with a plastic horse's head on it. You got the results you wanted for your poll--let's hope we get some results now.

Actually, you need to start another poll that ask---

What is going to happen first?
A) Carr becomes a great/good QB
B) Fans run out of excuses for Carr
C) Neither

bigbrewster2000
07-04-2006, 09:13 AM
Carr had problems with the rush in college. He was sacked 30 times his SR year and 25 times his JR year, which is a lot of sacks for a college QB. Too, his SR year he rushed 94 times for 67 yds (.7 avg), which is a clear indication he was trying to avoid the rush and means he was very close to having a 'bunch' of sacks. Remember, though, he will not be strictly a pocket passer in Kubiak's offense, as he will be throwing on the run by desgn---something Carr has never done before.
In college, a sack is considered a negative run, so he probably actually had around 60 rush attempts for 115-175 yds. And I voted yes and like most others, I am well aware of Carr's faults (all of them) but he gets the benifit of the doubt until I see what he can do in this new Offense.

TheCD
07-04-2006, 10:00 AM
One of the reasons that I will defend Carr is that EVERY professional sports announcer I have seen (with the exception of that moron Shannon Sharpe) has said that Carr has it and will be amazing if put in the right situation.


I know they're only human and get things wrong nowt and then...but I'll trust ALL of these people who are paid millions to criticize players' talent and have access to who know how many films involving the players over us...who generally see a game once and base our opinions on that.

Hulk75
07-04-2006, 10:02 AM
Carr had problems with the rush in college. He was sacked 30 times his SR year and 25 times his JR year, which is a lot of sacks for a college QB. Too, his SR year he rushed 94 times for 67 yds (.7 avg), which is a clear indication he was trying to avoid the rush and means he was very close to having a 'bunch' of sacks. Remember, though, he will not be strictly a pocket passer in Kubiak's offense, as he will be throwing on the run by desgn---something Carr has never done before.
I am going to have to see a stat/link..........He was not sacked 30 times his SR year. I heard 7.

MY BAD ONLY 15............. "I got sacked 15 times all of last year (at Fresno State)," he said. "It's a new thing for me."http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/11/02/Bengals02.html



And Carr does not know how to throw on the run, WhAt???

Hulk75
07-04-2006, 10:11 AM
I found this kind of funny..........

"Our No.1 goal is to cut back on (the sacks)," Capers said. "David has handled it, though. He's really shown physical toughness and mental toughness, and I think he's really won the respect of the guys in the locker room because of his approach."

:cool:

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 10:15 AM
I am going to have to see a stat/link..........He was not sacked 30 times his SR year. I heard 7.

MY BAD ONLY 15............. http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/11/02/Bengals02.html



And Carr does not know how to throw on the run, WhAt???

http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/070902aaa.html

If you look down where it says sacks/yds, it says Fresno State 31--since Carr made all but about 9 offensive plays that year, who do you think got those sacks? Too, when has Carr thrown on the run? He was strictly a pocket passer in college and has thrown on the run very little in the pros, going out of bounds or into the fetal position.


Carr's rushing stats
14 94 260 193 67 0.7 5 14 4.8
94-attempts 260-plus yds 193-negative yds 67-net 0.7-avg 4.8-total yds per game

TwinSisters
07-04-2006, 10:19 AM
For four years the previous coaching staff ignored the O line - and we gave up over 200 sacks in 4 years!! Some of those were Carr's fault - running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for example. But 4 years of being pounding is going to make you feel a little shaky.

Kubiak I think can restore that confidence, he's building an Oline that can protect our QB and we have seen in the past that when he is given time Carr is as good as 90% of the QB's in the league.

Casserly was the Senior Executive Officer Vice President Director of Football Operations and General Manager. Casserly did not fix the problem on the line.
( It's not Capers who scouted and signed Texans )

The 4 vets added to the offensive line are almost all directly related to Kubiak and Sherman somehow. ( Which means Casserly most likely didn't have anything to do with bringing them here ).

We have changed the offense for Carr several times now, and none of the changes have worked for him.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=116&p=9&c=2&cid=433967&nid=2473062&fhn=1

Needs To Adapt
by Staff of theOBR.com, September 5, 2005 at 7:42am ET

Houston Texans
QB David Carr must step up. The Texans designed a new offensive scheme with shorter drops and quicker routes, in hopes that Carr can get rid of the ball fast and avoid being hit.

In the preseason, it was apparent Carr has yet to become comfortable in the new system. He got rid of the ball fast in the last two games, but the passes often landed in the wrong hands or in the grass.

Carr must find a way to succeed in the system, which the Texans say they are committed to sticking with.

Shorter drops earned him a 5 yard per pass average and he fell just shy of breaking his own Hall of Fame sack record last season.

thunderkyss
07-04-2006, 11:49 AM
Worthy to start......... worthy of this 4 year waiting period....... worthy of this unhealthy adulation......... worthy of yet another thread..... If we look hard enough, we will find something he is, and is not worthy of.

I've not voted on this poll, because I feel it is a bit Vague...... don't want anybody to misconstrue what I say.


I would like to think that the Carr Haters are really Carr Waiters. We are all waiting to see all of the greatness that you have seen in College and in the NFL. Some of us are getting up in years and just cannot see it as well as many on this board who tend to be charter customers of the Fresno Fantasy Football Camp.

There are definitely different groups of Carr Haters...... I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"

TwinSisters
07-04-2006, 12:01 PM
There are definitely different groups of Carr Haters...... I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"

Ugh... :um:

Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre

powerfuldragon
07-04-2006, 12:04 PM
There are definitely different groups of Carr Haters...... I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"
No one else needs an abacus to count how many times they've been sacked.

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 12:11 PM
Ugh... :um:

Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre

Are you implying that Brett Favre was a top pick and was meant to be a cornerstone of the Falcons for years?

jerek
07-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Are you implying that Brett Favre was a top pick and was meant to be a cornerstone of the Falcons for years?

Was not a top pick expected to quarterback an expansion team out of the gate, no,

MorKnolle
07-04-2006, 12:35 PM
Ugh... :um:

Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre

Brett Favre was a high 2nd round pick and only attempted 5 passes for Atlanta that first year, so I don't know if he qualifies under the original quesiton (an underperforming QB that was let go - I don't know if he really had the chance to "underperform" other than on the practice field), although I am sure they still regret letting him go. Steve Young did play 19 games in 2 seasons for Tampa Bay and didn't accomplish much there, although if I'm not mistaken he played in the USFL or one of those other leagues for a year after being drafted into the NFL.

TwinSisters
07-04-2006, 12:37 PM
Are you implying that Brett Favre was a top pick and was meant to be a cornerstone of the Falcons for years?

No.

They wished they had him back after cutting him for being underdeveloped though.

( I am not really sure about Steve Young... I think the USFL something to do with him )

TwinSisters
07-04-2006, 12:41 PM
Brett Favre was a high 2nd round pick and only attempted 5 passes for Atlanta that first year, so I don't know if he qualifies under the original quesiton (an underperforming QB that was let go - I don't know if he really had the chance to "underperform" other than on the practice field), although I am sure they still regret letting him go. Steve Young did play 19 games in 2 seasons for Tampa Bay and didn't accomplish much there, although if I'm not mistaken he played in the USFL or one of those other leagues for a year after being drafted into the NFL.

Favre counts. Glanville booted him for being a "knucklehead".

( both Favre's and Glanville's words ... actually Glanville had a better set of words for him, but this is a Pop Warner forum ( not that there is anything wrong with that ) )

EDIT:
And ditto on the USFL with Young. I was just slow coming around. I am pretty certain that I could find a handful of regrets though.. Gannon was tossed around to several clubs before he earned his MVP.

TheCD
07-04-2006, 12:43 PM
I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"



I think the Arizona Cardinals (Up until they drafted Leinart, that is) have been wishing that, due to their QB woes, they had kept Jake Plummer. We all know that despite how good of a job Kurt Warner does, he was just the temporary fix until something more permanent came along.

Jake Delhomme played for the Saints from '98 to '02 (only played in 6 games, though), and I'll bet they wish they'd kept him onbaord.

Trent Green played for the Chargers, Redskins and Rams for 8 years before coming to KC...Say what you want about him being overrated - he's produced.

The Redskins also had Brad Johnson the year before he won a Championship in Tampa...

And last but not least even though it's not completely relavent...I'l bet the Titans are going to be saying that same thing for letting McNair go.



I don't know if this will make any of those uneasy about us keeping Carr any better...but while Plummer was in Arizona for 6 years, he averaged a 68.4 Passer Rating, 2937 yards, 15 TD's and 22 INT's and had a 55.55% completion...since he went to Denver under Kubiak and Shanahan, he has averaged a 88.6 Passer Rating, 3212 yards, 20 TD's and 11 INT's and had a 60.5% completion. Although Denver runs predominately, his attempts only dropped from an average of 459 per season in Arizona to 426 in Denver.

My point is...don't worry. Kubiak's worked with Elway, Young and Plummer...Carr has two key attributes that Kubiak can work with...speed and a powerful arm. The rest can be taught.

TheCD
07-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Brett Favre was a high 2nd round pick and only attempted 5 passes for Atlanta that first year, so I don't know if he qualifies under the original quesiton (an underperforming QB that was let go - I don't know if he really had the chance to "underperform" other than on the practice field), although I am sure they still regret letting him go. Steve Young did play 19 games in 2 seasons for Tampa Bay and didn't accomplish much there, although if I'm not mistaken he played in the USFL or one of those other leagues for a year after being drafted into the NFL.


Not only that...but the thing that separates Favre from almost every other QB in NFL history....


His very first pass attempt in the NFL was for a touchdown...FOR THE OTHER TEAM!

thunderkyss
07-04-2006, 02:14 PM
Ugh... :um:

Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre


uhh........ I'm counting modern era after salary cap..... those guys were moved before the salary cap....... favre was also never seen as the starter in Atlanta, much like Delhomme never had a chance to be the starter in N.O. he wasa let go, not because he underperformed....... but teams back then didn't hold on to backups like Volek, or the guy in Atlanta(can't remember his name).

No one else needs an abacus to count how many times they've been sacked.

yeah..... well....

I think the Arizona Cardinals have been wishing that, due to their QB woes, they had kept Jake Plummer.


I think the Cardnals realized their problem was much deeper than QB, and they had no right holding on to him, till they fixed their problems.... that's just my take. I'm sure they understand that a lot of success Jake has had, was because he left Arizona.

Jake Delhomme played for the Saints from '98 to '02 (only played in 6 games, though), and I'll bet they wish they'd kept him onbaord.


why?? They had their starter. and had Aaron Brooks not run off the mouth about the guy signing his pay check, he'd still be the guy in N.O.


Trent Green played for the Chargers, Redskins and Rams for 8 years before coming to KC...Say what you want about him being overrated - he's produced.


I seriously doubt any of those teams want trent green back... I just don't believe it.

The Redskins also had Brad Johnson the year before he won a Championship in Tampa...


You think the Skins think they would've won that SuperBowl if they would've kept Brad Johnson??

You really think that huh??

And last but not least even though it's not completely relavent...I'l bet the Titans are going to be saying that same thing for letting McNair go.


Because you believe the Titans believe McNair was an underachiever??

OK.

I don't know if this will make any of those uneasy about us keeping Carr any better...but while Plummer was in Arizona for 6 years, he averaged a 68.4 Passer Rating, 2937 yards, 15 TD's and 22 INT's and had a 55.55% completion...since he went to Denver under Kubiak and Shanahan, he has averaged a 88.6 Passer Rating, 3212 yards, 20 TD's and 11 INT's and had a 60.5% completion. Although Denver runs predominately, his attempts only dropped from an average of 459 per season in Arizona to 426 in Denver.

My point is...don't worry. Kubiak's worked with Elway, Young and Plummer...Carr has two key attributes that Kubiak can work with...speed and a powerful arm. The rest can be taught.

whose worried?? I'm not worried.......

TwinSisters
07-04-2006, 02:41 PM
uhh........ I'm counting modern era after salary cap..... those guys were moved before the salary cap....... favre was also never seen as the starter in Atlanta, much like Delhomme never had a chance to be the starter in N.O. he wasa let go, not because he underperformed....... but teams back then didn't hold on to backups like Volek, or the guy in Atlanta(can't remember his name).

You still have Rich Gannon. The Chiefs wish they would have kept him post salary cap ( if for no other reason, so that he didn't become a Raider ) and the Vikings regret letting him go pre salary cap ( joy to the world with Jim McMahon leading the charge )

Favre was behind 1st round pick stand out Chris Miller. They hung on to that pipe dream for 6 or so seasons.

Andre Rison and Deon Sanders... with Favre June Jones or Dan Reeves, instead of Jeff George and Chris Chandler?

They regret it. I bet they regret it.

Hulk75
07-04-2006, 02:44 PM
http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/070902aaa.html

If you look down where it says sacks/yds, it says Fresno State 31--since Carr made all but about 9 offensive plays that year, who do you think got those sacks? Too, when has Carr thrown on the run? He was strictly a pocket passer in college and has thrown on the run very little in the pros, going out of bounds or into the fetal position.


Carr's rushing stats
14 94 260 193 67 0.7 5 14 4.8
94-attempts 260-plus yds 193-negative yds 67-net 0.7-avg 4.8-total yds per game
Sr or mam..............I watched every game of this mans life, from College to the NFL.

Carr was took out many times, in the 4th and even the 3rd Quarter, because the score was so high they did not want to run up the score. Missed 9 plays, the guy probably missed 4 maybe 5 Quarters of football, the guy throw 6 TDs in one half and they took him out for the rest of the next half in a game his senior year.
Joe Schey and Logan Mankins and the rest of the STARTING Oline only gave up 15 sacks, and Grady got the brunt of the sacks considering that the talent level dropped off big time after the 1st string lineman were out.

And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. Palmer turned Carr (a pocket type QB) into a scrambler to protect him. They have used MANY roll out PA plays for Carr, he is used to it. One of his Strengths is throwing on the run.

Dont waste peoples time with this stuff........ here I will just say your right.

Your right, Carr sucked in College and in the NFL. Your right.:cool:

thunderkyss
07-04-2006, 03:20 PM
Favre was behind 1st round pick stand out Chris Miller. They hung on to that pipe dream for 6 or so seasons.



Deja vu

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 04:24 PM
"And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. "

...guess that's why he never throws the ball away when he's running out of bounds. Also, Carr's back-ups threw 9 passes his entire SR year, so it would have been kinda hard for them to collect a lot of sacks or loss yardage. Finally, you ought to practice what you preach---try backing up your post once in a while. Oh,almost forgot---this is a public forum.

"did not want to run up the score"

...you watched every game??? The Bulldogs scored over a 100 pts in every single qtr (total) in 2001, including 154pts in the 3rd and 106pts in the 4th!! And, Carr was in there!! How do you think he got such big numbers??

Ibar_Harry
07-04-2006, 05:16 PM
"And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. "

...guess that's why he never throws the ball away when he's running out of bounds. Also, Carr's back-ups threw 9 passes his entire SR year, so it would have been kinda hard for them to collect a lot of sacks or loss yardage. Finally, you ought to practice what you preach---try backing up your post once in a while. Oh,almost forgot---this is a public forum.

"did not want to run up the score"

...you watched every game??? The Bulldogs scored over a 100 pts in every single qtr (total) in 2001, including 154pts in the 3rd and 106pts in the 4th!! And, Carr was in there!! How do you think he got such big numbers??

They had to score they had no defense........................ That's why they lost of Boise State and Hawaii. They scored a lot of points, but they couldn't stop the other team from scoring. If we would have had any kind of a defense we would have had a perfect season that year and the BCS would have been history.

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 05:22 PM
They had to score they had no defense........................ That's why they lost of Boise State and Hawaii. They scored a lot of points, but they couldn't stop the other team from scoring. If we would have any kind of a defense we would have had a perfect season that year and the BCS would have been history.

Interesting that they had to score, rather than score the right way. But heck we are talking about Boise State and Hawaii here and I have not heard any mention of moving those teams to Los Angeles. :rolleyes:

Would it have not been great for David to slay the goliath BCS? :francis:

Ibar_Harry
07-04-2006, 05:24 PM
"And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. "

...guess that's why he never throws the ball away when he's running out of bounds. Also, Carr's back-ups threw 9 passes his entire SR year, so it would have been kinda hard for them to collect a lot of sacks or loss yardage. Finally, you ought to practice what you preach---try backing up your post once in a while. Oh,almost forgot---this is a public forum.

"did not want to run up the score"

...you watched every game??? The Bulldogs scored over a 100 pts in every single qtr (total) in 2001, including 154pts in the 3rd and 106pts in the 4th!! And, Carr was in there!! How do you think he got such big numbers??

Kaiser my answer was to this rebuttle.

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 05:26 PM
Kaiser my answer was to this rebuttle.

I know Ibar. I am closing a nine hour shift soon and frankly I am only entertaining myself. :francis:

Corrosion
07-04-2006, 05:31 PM
I dont think it matters what ANY of us on this board think of Carr . The only opinion that matters at this point is Gary Kubiak's ..... And he seems to be of the opinion that Carr can get the job done ..... I kinda tend to agree with him.


All you Carr haters blame his poor numbers on the man himself . One Man Does Not a TEAM Make .

Carr has never had a solid O-line to protect him .

Carr has never had a good second reciever option .

carr has never had a good offensive scheme with which to operate . Capers run on first down , run on second down oops its 3rd and long offense was a joke . Palmer , known for his offensive skills and ability to teach the QB position had his hands tied .... the coaching Carr recieved during this time was horrific .

Give the guy a break .... I know its difficult for us as fans to WAIT in this I want it YESTERDAY world .... But good things come to those who wait .

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 05:36 PM
They had to score they had no defense........................ That's why they lost of Boise State and Hawaii. They scored a lot of points, but they couldn't stop the other team from scoring. If we would have had any kind of a defense we would have had a perfect season that year and the BCS would have been history.

You need to go read Hulk's thread about how he watched every Carr game at Fresno and he played little in the 2nd half, so they would not run the score up. You are right!! They had to score points because of the bad defense. Why didn't Hulk know this since he watched every game? Read his post...

NATHANHALE
07-04-2006, 05:39 PM
"Give the guy a break"

He's going into the 5th year--and still counting--of his 'break.' What more do you want?

TheCD
07-04-2006, 06:47 PM
I think the Cardnals realized their problem was much deeper than QB, and they had no right holding on to him, till they fixed their problems.... that's just my take. I'm sure they understand that a lot of success Jake has had, was because he left Arizona.


why?? They had their starter. and had Aaron Brooks not run off the mouth about the guy signing his pay check, he'd still be the guy in N.O.



I seriously doubt any of those teams want trent green back... I just don't believe it.


You think the Skins think they would've won that SuperBowl if they would've kept Brad Johnson??

You really think that huh??


Because you believe the Titans believe McNair was an underachiever??

OK.


whose worried?? I'm not worried.......


I was showing what you wanted...teams that wish they hadn't given up their QB. I guarantee you the Skins wish they had a proven starter the past couple of years. I never said they would have won a Super Bowl...but the fact he did shows that he's a more than competent starter than what they've had

Likewise, the Cardinals wish they hadn't let Plummer go regardless of why they did...

Now, considering the inconsistency of Aaron Brooks, and the (relative) consistency of Jake Delhomme, I'll bet they wish they'd kept Jake around.

You can't tell me that none of those teams want Trent Green back...he's proven himself year in and year out on a team with very little defense to back up the offense. He's shown that with a solid running game he can do more than his share to get the job done. There's no way I'm going to believe any team wouldn't want a sure-fire PRO BOWL QB for a mere $7.14 mil per year http://www.fantasysports.aol.com/fb/playerProfile.cfm/pid.1275

Like I said in my post about McNair...it was off-topic, but I still believe they'll regret it.

My point wasn't to YOU about not worrying, my friend...it was to show those out there who are UNSURE about how David Carr will fair under our new coaching regime that they have proven success with an under-achieving QB thrown into a new system (And yes, I DO agree that Carr has under-achieved, I just believe that, seeing as I have always been told by my coaches throughout high school, coaching is an enormous part of a QB's success and his many shortcomings thus far will be remedied).

Wolf
07-04-2006, 11:34 PM
reading the posts the debate proves one thing (when listing out these guys)

And Kubiak said something along the lines.. It is the coaches job to get the best out of the player and to get the player into a system that brings out the best in the player..

well you look around these posts and around the league (or history of the league).. coaches IMO have to be smart enough to get figure out the players and the scheme that fits the players.

Alvin Harper..was far from being a superstar but as far being a corey bradford type(make the touch catch,drop the easy one) was adequate with the cowboys ..yet with (what was it) washington and tampa.. stunk
J Lewis.. pro bowl kick returner with Baltimore, yet with us ...flopped

Priest holmes...baltimore ..style didn't fit in ..yet KC shifted gears...

listing of the QB's on previous posts..apples and oranges

Would Plummer have done well as well in Arizona if he stayed..hard to say.different coaches different scheme. I can't prove this but I'd guess no

...
Same with Carr..He has the tools to make everythrow.. Lets see if Kubiak can get him in a scheme that can succeed.(honestly no excuses for Carr from me..baring injury to some key players.. we actually have talent on the offensive side (TE,#2WR, OL..etc etc)

Unless you think the Dom Capers era offense was an adequate scheme (which I think Dom's scheme is more like Carolinas scheme...you pound the ball and open up the pass.well we couldn't pound the ball consistantly so we were dead in the water on passing because we couldn't protect)
:twocents:

Hulk75
07-05-2006, 10:00 AM
"Give the guy a break"

He's going into the 5th year--and still counting--of his 'break.' What more do you want?
I have realized your here for one thing, so it is pointless to argue with you. You dont come here to discuss like some of us..............You ramble, if you have a question ask it.................BUUTTT there is 30 plays of loss yards and the backups only had blah................"I got sacked 15 times all of last year (at Fresno State)," he said. "It's a new thing for me."

Anything else worth discussing?