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johnny_tlmn
07-02-2006, 09:40 PM
The Texans made a mistake passing on Bing and Lowry (DB's) in the draft and taking a 6'3'' Owen Daniels (TE) in the fourth round. Don't forget they passed up Ko Simpson on that pick too, I thought he would've been the obvious choice. Everyone knows our DB's were probably the weakest part of our team last year. There was a lot said about Buchanon and his lack of ability. Even by his teamate and fellow CB Robinson. But in reality Buchanon was Robinson's best friend last year. If it hadn't been for Buchanon's phantom tackling and being the lightning rod for the Texans backfield someone might have noticed Robinson's fall from grace. :yahoo:

Robinson went from a steller rookie year to 1 interception and 1 sack last year. Now I know thats mainly because they were too scared to throw the ball his way though. :lightbulb:

Instead of getting DB depth we took an undersized TE where we actually have a little bit of depth. The Texans coaching staff has an entirely different opinion of their secondary. Let's hope they're right..... odds are, that is the case.
:poker:

WildBlackBear32
07-02-2006, 09:45 PM
Crumpler 6'2
Cooley 6'3
McMichael 6'3
LJ Smith 6'3
Pollard 6'3


I could go on and on...

wicked_wayz
07-02-2006, 10:09 PM
Dude, but you're not getting the point here. :rolleyes: Read the post again, its not about the size of the TE's its the fact that we could have drafted a quality DB, instead we picked up another TE. I just don't get it.:confused:

yeah i too was confuse as to why we didn't get bing or simpson, but im trusting KB when he said that the DB were the strength of this team......

TexanFan881
07-02-2006, 10:28 PM
Kubiak likes our DBs.

cuppacoffee
07-02-2006, 10:34 PM
Dude, but you're not getting the point here. Read the post again, its not about the size of the TE's its the fact that we could have drafted a quality DB, instead we picked up another TE. I just don't get it.


The scouts, GM and Kubiak had all night to study who was left on the board when they made this pick.

I don't know at what point Bing and Lowry were selected, were they the very next picks, or did they hang around on the board awhile longer?

As far as selecting a TE I would have preferred A Fasano from my Irish..but we couldn't justify taking him as early as he went....:crying:

Hated it that the boys got Fasano this year and Julius Jones last year. My Irish loyalties definitely end at the Dallas/Arlington city limits.

Anyplace else would have been acceptable...:mad:

:coffee:

Grid
07-02-2006, 10:46 PM
We liked our DBs as they were.. and we though Daniels would be a good addition.

Dunno what else to tell you. Just remember that we dont know everything going on behind the curtains. All i can tell you for sure is that our front office didnt forget that Bing, Lowry, and Simpson were on the board.. we passed on them for a reason.

TEXANS84
07-02-2006, 10:53 PM
All cornerbacks are going to look bad when you have no pass rush whatsoever and Vic Fangio running the defense.

I'm sure the 4-3 will bring things back to normal.

TexansTrueFan
07-02-2006, 11:29 PM
The Texans made a mistake passing on Bing and Lowry (DB's) in the draft and taking a 6'3'' Owen Daniels (TE) in the fourth round. Don't forget they passed up Ko Simpson on that pick too, I thought he would've been the obvious choice. Everyone knows our DB's were probably the weakest part of our team last year. There was a lot said about Buchanon and his lack of ability. Even by his teamate and fellow CB Robinson. But in reality Buchanon was Robinson's best friend last year. If it hadn't been for Buchanon's phantom tackling and being the lightning rod for the Texans backfield someone might have noticed Robinson's fall from grace. :yahoo:

Robinson went from a steller rookie year to 1 interception and 1 sack last year. Now I know thats mainly because they were too scared to throw the ball his way though. :lightbulb:

Instead of getting DB depth we took an undersized TE where we actually have a little bit of depth. The Texans coaching staff has an entirely different opinion of their secondary. Let's hope they're right..... odds are, that is the case.
:poker:


and dont forget that it helped robinson that A.G was on the other side, and that year we had an awesome DB core. Of course his numbers will go down when, we cant get to the QB and P.B cant stop nobody. BUT D-Rob is still a dangerious CB, and i expect him to have a much better season this year.

texan279
07-02-2006, 11:55 PM
I'll just have to trust our coaches judgement on this one until they give me a reason not too...IMO everyone gets a clean slate this season...

HJam72
07-03-2006, 12:21 AM
I wanted them to take KO Simpson badly, and it's still what I would've done, but let's wait and see what they can get out of Buchannon before we make a final decision. After all, we all know that our previous coaching staff was underachieving.

El Tejano
07-03-2006, 09:37 AM
Please remember that Daniels was selected because we also had a TE for three years that never saw the field and we didn't know what his status would be like now.

WildBlackBear32
07-03-2006, 10:06 AM
Dude, but you're not getting the point here. :rolleyes: Read the post again, its not about the size of the TE's its the fact that we could have drafted a quality DB, instead we picked up another TE. I just don't get it.:confused:

It apparently is about the size of the TE or you wouldn't have mentioned it. I bet if he was 6'5+ you wouldn't have had a problem, right?

Spoda
07-03-2006, 10:07 AM
i wanted bing with that pick as well...but only because our safeties are unproven...not because of our corners...i blame running a soft 3-4 zone with no pass rush on the bad corner play

TheOgre
07-03-2006, 10:11 AM
The knock against KO Simpson is his lack of intelligence and game instincts. I think that is why we passed on him.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 10:24 AM
Isn't DB one of the toughest positions to learn/play in the NFL? IMO, aquiring Db's via free agency would be the way to go. It's not everyday you can get a D-Rob type player in the late rounds of the draft.:twocents: I would think you'd want to get a proven DB that has had experience in the NFL.

ccdude730
07-03-2006, 10:34 AM
Isn't DB one of the toughest positions to learn/play in the NFL? IMO, aquiring Db's via free agency would be the way to go. It's not everyday you can get a D-Rob type player in the late rounds of the draft.:twocents: I would think you'd want to get a proven DB that has had experience in the NFL.
why cant we let one of our own draftpicks gain experience and groom them to be a solid starter? i would much rather make a star out of someone we drafted...

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 10:39 AM
why cant we let one of our own draftpicks gain experience and groom them to be a solid starter? i would much rather make a star out of someone we drafted...

That would definetly be the way to go if we were to draft a DB in the later rounds. For instant improvement FA would be the way to go.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Since we have a young secondary and have showed no consistency, we have to address it in next year's draft if we do not see any production from them this year. As has been said before, getting pressure on the QB will help many of our problems on the defensive side of the ball.

We appear to be set at QB, WR, TE, DE, DT and OL. I feel that we still have question marks at CB, SS, FS, LB's and RB.

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Since we have a young secondary and have showed no consistency, we have to address it in next year's draft if we do not see any production from them this year. As has been said before, getting pressure on the QB will help many of our problems on the defensive side of the ball.

We appear to be set at QB, WR, TE, DE, DT and OL. I feel that we still have question marks at CB, SS, FS, LB's and RB.

My point is that drafting a DB usually consist of at least a year or two of grooming, correct? I don't think it's very likely to have a D-Rob fall in your lap in the draft unless you're drafting in the top 5 (that's given there's even a good DB in that years draft). I'm assuming we'll be about mid-pack in next years draft. So, in order to see improvement within that short of time frame it would be better to find a DB in FA.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 11:19 AM
My point is that drafting a DB usually consist of at least a year or two of grooming, correct? I don't think it's very likely to have a D-Rob fall in your lap in the draft unless you're drafting in the top 5 (that's given there's even a good DB in that years draft). I'm assuming we'll be about mid-pack in next years draft. So, in order to see improvement within that short of time frame it would be better to find a DB in FA.

We will most likely not be a player in FA due to our dead money next year.

ccdude730
07-03-2006, 11:27 AM
That would definetly be the way to go if we were to draft a DB in the later rounds. For instant improvement FA would be the way to go.
FA is always the quick fix, but you lose the youth in your team and you start looking like the raiders. you have to be somewhat active in FA though to keep veteran leadership and playmaking ability around your team.

Since we have a young secondary and have showed no consistency, we have to address it in next year's draft if we do not see any production from them this year.
we do have a young secondary, but this is the first time for them to even be able to show any consistency IMO. earl didnt start till midseason and he showed promise, cc brown was a rookie who got abused alot but we dont yet know his potential especially after a position change (i assume he is sliding over to the FS spot). i think the coaching staff already knows they need a ball hawk FS too. this draft just didnt have the right one for them

HOU-TEX
07-03-2006, 11:59 AM
]FA is always the quick fix, but you lose the youth [/B]in your team and you start looking like the raiders. you have to be somewhat active in FA though to keep veteran leadership and playmaking ability around your team.


we do have a young secondary, but this is the first time for them to even be able to show any consistency IMO. earl didnt start till midseason and he showed promise, cc brown was a rookie who got abused alot but we dont yet know his potential especially after a position change (i assume he is sliding over to the FS spot). i think the coaching staff already knows they need a ball hawk FS too. this draft just didnt have the right one for them

Point well taken.

I kinda want to see how they do this season in order to correctly evaluate them. I agree with you on Earl. If he can stay healthy, I think he can become a force in the DB. He's definetly not scared to lay a hit on someone either.

MorKnolle
07-03-2006, 12:38 PM
Dude, but you're not getting the point here. :rolleyes: Read the post again, its not about the size of the TE's its the fact that we could have drafted a quality DB, instead we picked up another TE. I just don't get it.:confused:

Obviously the Texans staff feels their DBs are good enough, I'm not sure yet that I share their sentiments, but we'll see. As for Ko Simpson, Darnell Bing, and the rest, many people on these boards thought of both of them as 1st rounders while others did not, and obviously neither one ended up being close. I wouldn't have minded getting one of those guys in the 4th round rather than Daniels, although I think CB was a bigger need than S and as much as I like Demeco Ryans I almost would have rather seen a CB like Jimmy Williams at #33. Either way, no other team in the NFL saw Ko Simpson as being that high quality of a player or any of the other guys that were left to the 2nd day. I'm not saying that all of them are going to be bad NFL players, but just questioning how high-quality some of these 4th round picks are.

BuffSoldier
07-03-2006, 12:38 PM
Dunta Robinson did have an unipressive sophmore year, but I dont blame it on him, or maybe I do blame it on him for being so good of a CB. He was so good that other teams decided to exploit the other weaknesses in the secondary. I was actully reading the ESPN fantasy football guide, they had Dunta ranked #31 in fantasy CBs... and next to him the put "be careful, teams will try to avoid him" which I thought said enough about how great he is.

But I do tend to agree on with the point of drafting Owen Daniels. Now if Daniels turns out to be another 4th round diamond in the rough Dominick Davis then Ill eat my words but, with Ko Simson still on the board I think that it was crazy to pass him up, especiall when you week Safeties, not saying that CC didnt play well for a rookie, because he did, I just think Earl is replaceable. Not only that but I dont think that Buchanan will be a good #2 corner, at least we could have brought in more competitiveness.

Kaiser Toro
07-03-2006, 12:44 PM
As some have said all teams passed on Simpson. I would bet that Bob McNair and Dunta had some input on Ko given their USC connection.

Battle Red Flash
07-03-2006, 03:46 PM
I was very suprised the Texans had all night to find the best player available, and took Owen Daniels, but....
I also think our DB's will be better this year due to two prime factors:
1- Our pass rush will be much better, hence not giving opposing QB's time.
and
B- All the starting DB's are very young, and they should ALL be better due to having a full year's experience.
I'm looking for more INT's and TO's by the D.

Ibar_Harry
07-03-2006, 03:55 PM
I was very suprised the Texans had all night to find the best player available, and took Owen Daniels, but....
I also think our DB's will be better this year due to two prime factors:
1- Our pass rush will be much better, hence not giving opposing QB's time.
and
B- All the starting DB's are very young, and they should ALL be better due to having a full year's experience.
I'm looking for more INT's and TO's by the D.

I think you are saying that Mario and Weaver are going to have an impact on what happens to the opposing QB. When the other QB has 1 or 2 seconds we will see how strong our secondary is. Remember, how good Glenn and Coleman looked the 1st year. Well, that was because of the defensive line as much as anything.

TexansSeminole
07-03-2006, 04:23 PM
Ko Simpson didnt have the football IQ needed to start in the NFL, and Darnell Bing just wasn't quick enough, and lacked top end speed to play safety in the NFL. The only safety i would have gotten with one of our picks would have been Slay, and even then, if we would have got him, i think we would have given up too much value.

bckey
07-03-2006, 04:26 PM
The main thing that I didn't like about the choice of Daniels are his previous injuries. The Texans need to stop risking taking players that are coming off major injuries or have a history of injuries. Daniels has already torn his right ACL twice, once in high school and again in 2002. Maybe with the combo of Rick Smith/Gary Kubiak this will change.

bckey
07-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I would have liked to have seen the Texans take Darnell Bing or Pat Watkins. I don't think KO will cut it in the NFL. The reasons why were covered on here during and after the draft.

TexansSeminole
07-03-2006, 04:37 PM
I would have liked to have seen the Texans take Darnell Bing or Pat Watkins. I don't think KO will cut it in the NFL. The reasons why were covered on here during and after the draft.

I agree on Pat Watkins...I saw him play all last year here in Tallahassee with the Noles. Tall guy with great leaping ability, and he has good instincts. He will be missed here this year, but of course we did get Myron Rolle :) .

threetoedpete
07-03-2006, 05:47 PM
Ko Simpson didnt have the football IQ needed to start in the NFL, and Darnell Bing just wasn't quick enough, and lacked top end speed to play safety in the NFL. The only safety i would have gotten with one of our picks would have been Slay, and even then, if we would have got him, i think we would have given up too much value.
I read where Ko didn't interveiw well. Didn't see the I.Q. thingy. Daniels has very soft hands the two games I watched him Play. You would think a guy who use to call plays for Shannon Sharp, who depends a hole lot on production from the TE positon for his scheme...would have a prety fair eye for TE tallent. I never thought they would draft Ko. I thought Griffin had a shot. But Kubes wanted THIS player... that's good enough for me. You gotta believe he likes our safties. And that Owens upside out wieghed what Ko could have given us this season. The kids start out chasing the water bug...we'll see.

Buzz
07-03-2006, 06:40 PM
Remember, how good Glenn and Coleman looked the 1st year. Well, that was because of the defensive line as much as anything.

If the defensive line made them look good, then I think they could also have made some of the secondary last year look bad. Combine that with some lousy coaching, and the situation is even worse. So if you have an improved defensive line, and better coaching, it makes sense thinking the secondary has the potential to be much better, and that's probably what Kubiak is doing.
Having said that, it still seems like they should have added a DB instead of TE.

MorKnolle
07-03-2006, 07:19 PM
I think you are saying that Mario and Weaver are going to have an impact on what happens to the opposing QB. When the other QB has 1 or 2 seconds we will see how strong our secondary is. Remember, how good Glenn and Coleman looked the 1st year. Well, that was because of the defensive line as much as anything.

Our defensive front 7 should help our DBs look a whole lot better, but I'm still a little worried about Faggins/Buchanon being out there because opposing teams will know to throw at them any time they are in trouble and it will end up getting some teams out of trouble during the year. I would have really liked to see us bring in a better CB, although a bunch of them went in the 1st round in the draft (Jimmy Williams surprisingly didn't, must have been some behind the scenes dirt on him that none of us know about, but I wouldn't have minded getting him over Ryans), and if Jonathan Joseph or Tye Hill had managed to fall to #33 I'm sure they would have grabbed either one of them there, but things just didn't work out for us.

As much as I would have liked to upgrade DB (mainly CB) this offseason, I would not have expected us to grab anyone in the 4th round that would come in and start for us, so I'm not real worried about us passing on a DB there.

the wonger need food
07-05-2006, 09:36 PM
Just a fluff piece, but we really might be okay with Brown and Earl. If this secondary comes together it could resemble the Oilers young guns secondary from the early 90's (Chris Dishman, Marcus Robertson, Bubba McDowell, Darryll Lewis, Steve Jackson, Bo Orlando).



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2650&section=N%20Latest%20News

HOU-TEX
07-06-2006, 11:42 AM
Just a fluff piece, but we really might be okay with Brown and Earl. If this secondary comes together it could resemble the Oilers young guns secondary from the early 90's (Chris Dishman, Marcus Robertson, Bubba McDowell, Darryll Lewis, Steve Jackson, Bo Orlando).



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2650&section=N%20Latest%20News

I remember Bubba putting some nice hits on some people. Dishman kinda reminds me of P-Buch before last season. He always tried to make the big play. Sometimes it paid off, other times he'd get burnt. HMM those were some fun times, until we got to the playoffs.:)

CloakNNNdagger
07-07-2006, 11:07 AM
The Giants just waved safety Adrian Mayes. He was an undrafted Louisiana State player that was known as a hard hitter with speed. He played both FS and SS in college. He virtually got no playing time with the Giants. Houston is his hometown. The Giant's 2006 secondary was pretty well set in the preseason. Wonder if the Texans might entertain giving him a tryout in TC. Would certainly come cheap.

bayoudreamn
07-07-2006, 08:00 PM
Since we have a young secondary and have showed no consistency, we have to address it in next year's draft if we do not see any production from them this year. As has been said before, getting pressure on the QB will help many of our problems on the defensive side of the ball.

We appear to be set at QB, WR, TE, DE, DT and OL. I feel that we still have question marks at CB, SS, FS, LB's and RB.

I like this post. If you are correct, our problem areas are mostly positions with starting players having only a year or two of experience or having that in this system. The other concern is due to injury. I'd lot rather have those questions than questions about talent.

bayoudreamn
07-07-2006, 08:05 PM
Dunta Robinson did have an unipressive sophmore year, but I dont blame it on him, or maybe I do blame it on him for being so good of a CB. He was so good that other teams decided to exploit the other weaknesses in the secondary. I was actully reading the ESPN fantasy football guide, they had Dunta ranked #31 in fantasy CBs... and next to him the put "be careful, teams will try to avoid him" which I thought said enough about how great he is.

But I do tend to agree on with the point of drafting Owen Daniels. Now if Daniels turns out to be another 4th round diamond in the rough Dominick Davis then Ill eat my words but, with Ko Simson still on the board I think that it was crazy to pass him up, especiall when you week Safeties, not saying that CC didnt play well for a rookie, because he did, I just think Earl is replaceable. Not only that but I dont think that Buchanan will be a good #2 corner, at least we could have brought in more competitiveness.

Avoiding DR was partly because PB was such a tasty target last year. That is what poses the question for this season. It's becoming more and more clear with each day that the old staff didn't know how to teach....maybe the difference is there and is now fixed.

jparrish
07-08-2006, 08:52 PM
I think picking up Owen Daniels will be good for us. This guy is a pretty good athlete at TE. I'm not calling him a Gates, Gonzales, or a Shockey...but the guy could definitely develop into a good target.

Brandon420tx
07-08-2006, 09:57 PM
I think picking up Owen Daniels will be good for us. This guy is a pretty good athlete at TE. I'm not calling him a Gates, Gonzales, or a Shockey...but the guy could definitely develop into a good target.
Nice comments, Wrong thread

TK_Gamer
07-09-2006, 03:20 AM
Nice comments, Wrong thread

?? huh ??

ccdude730
07-09-2006, 04:04 AM
Nice comments, Wrong thread
read the first post in the thread

DocBar
07-09-2006, 06:38 AM
Don't understand passing Ko Simpson on a TE. Might be the biggest mistake of the draft.
Ko Simpson
College: South Carolina
Year: Sophomore
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 200
Birthday: November 9, 1983

With just two years of college football on his resume, sophomore Ko Simpson is ready for the NFL. No, he isnít suffering from delusions of grandeur by making the move this soon. After grayshirting his first season at South Carolina, Simpson had a breakout season as a freshman in 2004. He picked off six passes, third-most in the entire country that year, and earned SEC Freshman of the Year honors from the Associated Press.

Simpson is a difference maker. He led the Gamecocks with 103 tackles as a sophomore, 34 more than his next closest teammate. Sure, when a safety makes that many tackles, it is a sign of a subpar defensive unit, but Simpson is a productive player nonetheless. He also has terrific range and coverage abilities. He may be a little under the radar in these early pre-draft months, but Simpsonís upside could easily translate into him being the top safety in this draft class.

More quick than fast, Simpson has the agility of an elite free safety. It would be nice if he added a little more muscle to his otherwise solid frame, but a year in an NFL weight program ought to do the trick. Simpson could also be a bit more physical on the field, but his tackle stats show that he at least doesnít shy from making contact.

Though he is somewhat inexperienced given just his two college seasons, Simpson is a rare draft-eligible sophomore that is a senior-like 22 years old. He was asked to grayhirt in 2003 because then-Gamecocks head coach Lou Holtz had too many recruits signed. Holtz obviously asked the wrong recruit to sit out his first season. NFL teams are now forewarned about making Simpson sit for too long on draft day.

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2006, 09:33 AM
Doc, there's a good reason that Simpson dropped to 4...................He was interviewed by over half the teams, and was found to be intellectually competitive with a tree stump. This was somewhat more than scarey to teams looking for a player that would be eventually quarterbacking their secondary. Tree stumps don't tend get smarter with age or experience.:hides:

CloakNNNdagger
07-09-2006, 09:38 AM
Here's one link that addresses the concern .pre-interviews (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/NFLDRAFT/SAFETIES.html?SITE=ILBLO)

DocBar
07-09-2006, 09:41 AM
Doc, there's a good reason that Simpson dropped to 4...................He was interviewed by over half the teams, and was found to be intellectually competitive with a tree stump. This was somewhat more than scarey to teams looking for a player that would be eventually quarterbacking their secondary. Tree stumps don't tend get smarter with age or experience.:hides:
Solid point, but where does that leave VY? I'm on an "I hate VY" jag lately and don't know why!!! I am working purely off of other peoples interpretations and opinions on a lot of the draft picks. I don't follow college sports much. I tend to like our secondary more than some people (with the exception of P-Burnt) and feel that CC and Earl will adequately fill those positions. Ko Simpson DOES look good from some of the clips I've watched but maybe they were exactly what they were supposed to be: highlight material. Daniels might be a great pickup, but we have quite a bit of depth at TE right now until Joppru does his annual thing. Hope I didn't just jinx him.

DominickDavisFan76
07-09-2006, 10:43 AM
Honestly, I would have taken a chance on Ko Simpson, because I think that our defense is better, but it could have been great.

Inless Kubiak knows something about Daniels that we dont.......

MorKnolle
07-09-2006, 02:33 PM
Honestly, I would have taken a chance on Ko Simpson, because I think that our defense is better, but it could have been great.

Inless Kubiak knows something about Daniels that we dont.......

Ko Simpson is definitely quite athletic for a safety, but there were several concerns about his mental abilities and it will likely take him at least a year to be ready to make a positive impact in the NFL.

aj.
07-09-2006, 02:46 PM
Doc, there's a good reason that Simpson dropped to 4...................He was interviewed by over half the teams, and was found to be intellectually competitive with a tree stump. This was somewhat more than scarey to teams looking for a player that would be eventually quarterbacking their secondary. Tree stumps don't tend get smarter with age or experience.:hides:

Interesting.....Googling "Ko Simpson" and "box of rocks" returns Ko and Jessica 1 and 2.

DocBar
07-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Here's one link that addresses the concern .pre-interviews (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/specials/NFLDRAFT/SAFETIES.html?SITE=ILBLO)
I'm surprised by you, gownNscalpel...I mean CloakNdagger. Or maybe Mr. McCoy(you remind me of Mr. Spock AND Dr. McCoy... I mean that in the highest regard). Nothing in that link suggested he shouldn't1 have been a legitimate 4th round pick. I mean 4th ROUND!!! Maybe most 4th rounders ARE Ivy league, but you shouldn't expect that from all of them. This is the NFL not the chess club. How high did Marino score on the Wunderlich? I bet Isotoner gloves have scored higher. An innate ability to be around the ball and knock the slobber out of someone is a premium worth much more than classroom skills at a position such as safety.

DocBar
07-09-2006, 03:07 PM
Interesting.....Googling "Ko Simpson" and "box of rocks" returns Ko and Jessica 1 and 2.
Now THAT is funny:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: