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phan1
06-29-2006, 11:43 AM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.

jreal26
06-29-2006, 11:59 AM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.

You obviously haven't paid much attention to Denver. Denver has one of the better defenses in the league. They especially have a great trio of LB's. They are one of the fastest, and most aggressive defenses in the league.

wrestler4life
06-29-2006, 11:59 AM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.
I agree. I think it is a little unsettling. But, Kubiak was never in charge over in Denver. We have to have faith that he will find his own way.

nunusguy
06-29-2006, 11:59 AM
Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well.
I dunno....but maybe that's because they have such a superior record every
year they only get to pick over the left overs from the the earlier picks made
by all of the loosers. But I do seem to recall them making some pretty good picks in the later rounds over the years.
I went to see a scrimmage last year in pre-season at one of the Reliant Field
practice fields and watched the Texans go against the Broncos.
The Bronco's were very quick, very aggressive, and obviously highly disciplined and looked far superior to the Texans. I got no trouble with using that kind of team as a role model.

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 12:01 PM
Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team.

I think the lack of "star" players is probably because Denver's system relies so much on players acting as a unit rather than getting an Urlacher or Ray Lewis and then finding a way to keep blockers off of them until they can make plays.

Yes, the offense is mostly centered around the running game. The Broncos can pass though, and I don't care if the offense is centered around the guy who tapes their ankles as long as they score points - and they do.

HOU-TEX
06-29-2006, 12:08 PM
Oooo, you said Urlacher, I would love to have that guy on our LB squad. Imagine Urlacher, Demeco and Greenwood as our LB's. Geesh, I need some football.:francis:

Bobo
06-29-2006, 12:10 PM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.

I said this a long, long time ago. It's ridiculous to form your team in the image of another team -- especially when they haven't even gotten into the SB in years. The Browns tried to become a mirror image of the 49ers -- look where that got them. Plus, seems to me that if you wanted the Broncs, then you'd be a Broncs fan. To simply become Broncos Lite is very uncreative and not very smart at all.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 12:12 PM
I agree. I think it is a little unsettling. But, Kubiak was never in charge over in Denver. We have to have faith that he will find his own way.

With all the faux pas that Kubiak has been involved in up to now, that "faith" is becoming more like "blind faith."

El Tejano
06-29-2006, 12:13 PM
I can think of other defensive standouts that were produced in Denver. Guys like Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, of course Champ, Trevor Pryce. They've had a good defense.

Alot of the reasons you don't see great picks going to Denver is because they are always at the bottom of the draft order due to their record. The other reason is because they are always making key additions in FA. Such as John Lynch and now Johnnie Abraham.

I can't wait to see what these dudes do.

TwinSisters
06-29-2006, 12:13 PM
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit. This might go away with performance though.

The next big problem will not go so easily, and I am already starting to feel it from the local sportsnards. If we win, it's Denver South... if we lose, it's Bronco South Dump.

jerek
06-29-2006, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't mind a "poor man's Broncos." That's good for what, at least +4 in the win column this year?

But in all seriousness, Kubiak is forging a new direction for this team. He's picked Denver compatriots because he's comfortable working with them, but for the record, I have no problem with any of his choices so far. They all appear to be solid football minds and terrific upgrades to their predecessors. If I thought the good ol' boy system was bringing in unqualified candidates, then it would be a problem, but so far, everyone he's brought on board has a solid, if not slightly short, resume.

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 12:16 PM
Effectively using the word "Meritocracy" on a football message board deserves applause. Nice job.

:whoohoo:

Bearfan Blue and Orange
06-29-2006, 12:18 PM
HMmmm. Denver back to back superbowls... majority winning seasons... You could say the same about the Patriots... NO Superstars there either. just a TEAM UNIT. through the unit stars are born.

Superstars get frustrated on a team.... TO, Javon Walker, (i'll take the heat for this one) Moulds, etc...

Denver is not a bad team to mirror... you can call me the Houston Broncos for all I care if it gets us to the playoffs and a Superbowl!!!

:bananasplit:

TexansLucky13
06-29-2006, 12:21 PM
I think the lack of "star" players is probably because Denver's system relies so much on players acting as a unit rather than getting an Urlacher or Ray Lewis and then finding a way to keep blockers off of them until they can make plays.


I completely agree. Teams like the Colts who focus on individual outstanding players instead of focusing on creating a team will never have any SB blings. Teams like Denver and New England have the ability to make use of any level of talent due to their unique playing style.

"We don't collect talent, we build a team"

-Bill Belichick

He knows a thing or two about putting together a team and winning championships.

Maybe Kubiak knows what he is doing... beginning first and foremost with his most noticable move in the off-season... surpassing Reggie to grab Mario. Maybe he knew that we already have an above average run game, and needed a DE more. Maybe we have ourselves a really awesome coaching staff now. I believe it.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
06-29-2006, 12:21 PM
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit. This might go away with performance though.

The next big problem will not go so easily, and I am already starting to feel it from the local sportsnards. If we win, it's Denver South... if we lose, it's Bronco South Dump.

This is not uncommon for any new head coach coming in. Cooincidence is that you have more Front Office openings because people have left and cleaning house was done too.

Each of these guys were successful at Denver and that is why he brought them here with him. The more people on the same page allows for efficient and fast progression in football forward.

TwinSisters
06-29-2006, 12:31 PM
This is not uncommon for any new head coach coming in.

O yeah certainly, I agree. College and the NFL

gooneybird
06-29-2006, 12:34 PM
The additions from the Broncos are fine with me. I guess we will see how they pan out in the coming seasons. Would we be better off if we were pulling guys from San Francisco, Detroit, or Phoenix?

I think it all boils down to who the guys in charge are more comfortable working with.

Hutch13
06-29-2006, 12:38 PM
this isnt uncomfortable at all i love being like the denver broncos who can sign an undrafted rookie and make him into a great wide reciever that gets 6 TDs and 1000 yards and can draft a RB in the 6th round and get him 12 TDs and 1000 yards. Maybe one day the texans can do that.

PapaL
06-29-2006, 12:45 PM
I can think of other defensive standouts that were produced in Denver. Guys like Bill Romanowski, Neil Smith, of course Champ, Trevor Pryce. They've had a good defense.


Except Trevor Pryce, none of those guys were drafted by Denver....

El Tejano
06-29-2006, 12:55 PM
My point exactly. It was suggested that they didn't draft well and I informed it is because they do well in FA and alot of their FA work for them.

PapaL
06-29-2006, 12:58 PM
My point exactly. It was suggested that they didn't draft well and I informed it is because they do well in FA and alot of their FA work for them.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but always going out a FA and getting a "star" is a lot more expensive then developing your own talent. They practically have the entire Browns DL. Hopefully we will be able to incorporate a little of both here (not the Browns DL).

Holden135
06-29-2006, 01:04 PM
Personally I love seeing these guys coming over from Denver. The Broncos are a proven franchise that has won titles and is always a contender. We need people that know how to win. You are telling me that you wouldn't take the Patriots or Steelers coaching staff if we had the chance? It's not like these guys will make us any worse (there is no place worse than the worst record in the league). We need to give these guys a chance to win and if they fail we can send them to the plank.

Texans_Chick
06-29-2006, 01:46 PM
I would love having Denver's offensive and defensive stats. Any day of the week. They dint win the Superbowl, but it is hard to win them puppies

I LOVE that they are picking a philosophy and going all out to make that philosophy succeed, instead of picking pieces and parts of different stuff and trying to make it mesh.

Usually, successful coaches bring their disciples with them to their new coaching destinations. And most successful coaches come from systems that were previously successful.

Analogies are sometimes kinda pukey, but for this situation, it is the best way to explain it:

For any of y'all who cook, you know that it is always easier and usually ends up with better results to take a quality recipe you have and then tweak it for your taste than to put together something from scratch. Because you know the basic recipe works. You like it. It is easier to improve.

Last year's offense was a recipe for disaster. Start off one way and then change the recipe--it was an incoherent mess.

Last year's defense was too complicated a recipe to work consistently. Our souffle kept collapsing.

So, if you are making french food, it's best to get french chefs to do it. If you are running a Denver style offense, why not get the most qualified people short of the mastermind to put it together and get the people who know what sorts of personnel fit that system.

As for Clarett, that was not a Rick Smith decision, it was a Shanny decision.

As for "star players"--they get their share of probowlers--even ones who weren't picked high in the draft. You are successful long enough, you need to make successes out of guys that you find in the draft. And if you are successful, you can attract quality FAs.

Texaco, schmexico. Quality stadium, quality fans, financially bigtime franchise--if we get some real football around here and get something going and the league is gonna be in trouble.

Here is one of my blog posts with more in depth information about this subject and the reason why committing to a philosophy is something that should be appreciated and not feared (of course, if you think that the underlying philosophy is good):

link: GM Rick Smith: Welcome to the Texans (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/gm_rick_smith_welcome_to_the_t_1.html)

Double Barrel
06-29-2006, 01:55 PM
I agree with TC and others who have clearly demonstrated that the Bronco-type team is a formula for a successful team.

Bring on the playoffs! :texflag:

Bullpen Drew
06-29-2006, 02:00 PM
who cares! whatever works! We need W's not L's!

TexansFanatic
06-29-2006, 02:12 PM
Denver won two Super Bowls in a row 1997-1998. In 1998, they won 13 games in a row to start the season. Hmmmmm..... I think I could be happy with that here......

TwinSisters
06-29-2006, 03:04 PM
Denver won two Super Bowls in a row 1997-1998. In 1998, they won 13 games in a row to start the season. Hmmmmm..... I think I could be happy with that here......

Okay so we should have hired Barry Switzer then? Made Troy Aikman our QB's coach, Emmitt Smith our RBs coach, Irvin our WR's coach, Jerry Jones's daughter-in-law's brother our line coach, Dorsett's son our other line coach, picked up Deon as the player/coach for the DB's, and made Oklahoma the head of our scouting and personel department.

O and Brian Bosworth will be our Strength and Conditioning coach/team counselor.

point in parody

One or two here and there... OK. But Krikey! One or two more hires and you will have to wonder if there is going to be a battle Orange day.

BlueThunder
06-29-2006, 03:07 PM
I'm more worried about becoming the AM Aggies more then the Denver Broncos.......:whip:

TwinSisters
06-29-2006, 03:55 PM
I'm more worried about becoming the AM Aggies more then the Denver Broncos.......:whip:

That TOO!!

Right now we only have three on the squad though... I think. I believe Sherman is just camping and not building a house. So it's not REALLY bad yet. So long as Childress has a chair at the board meetings, I imagine that is going to be a special feature of the Texans every season.

Let me check something...

yeah I think it is still three Holland, Kubiak, and Sherman.

unless I am missing something. I could be... Those **** Aggies are pretty tricky. Sorta like fleas. You can dust them out six times over, but they will keep popping back up.

TexansLucky13
06-29-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm more worried about becoming the AM Aggies more then the Denver Broncos.......:whip:

Someone finally recognized the true plot behind all of this. :stirpot:

Go Aggies

BlueThunder
06-29-2006, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't worry guys,everyone was for the hiring of a instate product.We are making major changes and in order for it to work all at once we have to get an aptmisphire that puts everyone on the same page at the same time.In order to accomplish that we need enough coaches from the systems were going to be running.I want Kubiak to feel comfortable with his staff and have the support he needs.This is all about turnning this team around this year.This season has to be a good one for Gary to gain confidence from his players.I think this team just lost confidence in the other staff...:shoot:

HOU-TEX
06-29-2006, 04:41 PM
Someone finally recognized the true plot behind all of this.

Go Aggies

I'm not a big fan of A & M, but hey a Texas A&M man is a Texan too!:yahoo:

Although he's quite a bit younger than me, Jackson Appel and I went to the same HS. Any word of were or what he's doing?:spy:

BlueThunder
06-29-2006, 05:02 PM
If you keep talking,the'll never pull it off,,,,,,,,,:redtowel:



:logo: :party: :trophy:

WORST TO FIRST!

MorKnolle
06-29-2006, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't worry guys,everyone was for the hiring of a instate product.We are making major changes and in order for it to work all at once we have to get an aptmisphire that puts everyone on the same page at the same time.In order to accomplish that we need enough coaches from the systems were going to be running.I want Kubiak to feel comfortable with his staff and have the support he needs.This is all about turnning this team around this year.This season has to be a good one for Gary to gain confidence from his players.I think this team just lost confidence in the other staff...:shoot:

I think Kubiak already has the confidence of the players from everything I've been hearing. That confidence shuld carry into the season and should help the players play better, I don't think they have to have a "successful" season in order for the players to trust him and have confidence in him. You are right on about the team losing all confidence in last year's coaching staff.

U4ikrob
06-29-2006, 06:17 PM
I could not disagree more with this post... :francis:

The Texans have done no different than most business do when their is a regime/supervisor change. In any business no matter what it is - The supervisor normally chooses the staff who he wants to work with 9 out of 10 times. Thats no different in the NFL.

So far our staff actually looks like this :
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2398&section=N%20Latest%20News

Front office:

GM - Rick Smith - Broncos
College Scouting - Dale Strahm - Broncos
Pro Scouting - Chuck Banker - Texans

Coaching Staff:

Gary Kubiak (Head Coach) - Broncos
Mike Sherman (Asst. Head Coach/ Offense) - Packers
Troy Calhoun (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks) - Broncos
Richard Smith (Defensive Coordinator) - Dolphins/Lions
Joe Marciano (Special Teams Coordinator) - Texans
Martin Bayless (Asst. Defensive Backs) - Raiders
John Benton (Offensive Line) - Rams
Chick Harris (Running Backs) - Texans
Jon Hoke (Defensive Backs) - Texans
Johnny Holland (Linebackers) - Packers/Seahawks/Lions
Bob Karmelowicz (Defensive Line) - Chiefs
Mike McDaniel (Offensive Assistant) - Broncos
Brian Pariani (Tight Ends) - Syracuse/Broncos/49ers
Robert Saleh (Defensive Assistant) - Texans
Kyle Shanahan (Wide Receivers) - Bucaneers

By my count thats only 4 people out of 15 coaches who were on the staff with Denver. All of them on the offense side. Then we have 2 Front office folks. - Where is this wholesale change to denver you folks are talking about??

IMO - Some of the above points make it out to seem like Kubiac is clueless and that he and the Texans hired a bunch of misfits who couldnt do their jobs and only got a job here based on their friendship merits with Kubiac alone.

I totally disagree with this PoV and frankly its kind of demeaning to coach Kubes.

My point is - How about this staff being hired because they are talented and competant individuals who are familiar with our team or coach along with being succesful professionals at their respective prior places who saw an opportunity and took a shot to come start something new on our team - eh??

IMO were Taking the best parts of Proven winners strategies and improving on them in our own way to create a better product on the field.

Thats how I see our new staff.

Kubes and the few Denver staff that have come over were proven good at their collective jobs and saw a chance to try something new when our coach moved in. IMO It's not like we hired a bunch of Denver scrubs off the street with no experience like some are making it out to be.

I really found the points comparing our staff to Jerry & the Dallas cowboy ex's in poor taste.

HomeBred_Texan
06-29-2006, 06:57 PM
I would like to know who said that before the season has even started and we have even seen a play, that everything will be EXACTLY like it was in
Denver? I think some changes will be made and this is not gonna be a duplicate of Denver.

kcwilson
06-29-2006, 07:02 PM
Wow. Please tell me that fans are not starting to cry about bringing in talented individuals with a track record of winning.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 07:08 PM
The biggest problem I have with it, is that it smacks of cronyism instead of meritocracy. Meaning you are seeing guys filling posts by being buddies, in lieu of merit.

I said this a long time ago, too. This is especially true for the assistant coaching staff as well as the GM. It stinks.

aj.
06-29-2006, 07:09 PM
1) The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

2) Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

3) Of course players are confident and excited. It's a new regime and the season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff (how they react when things go bad - as they inevitably will) that will determine how successful this coaching staff, management team and players will be.

4) Whatever works.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 07:11 PM
I could not disagree more with this post... :francis:

The Texans have done no different than most business do when their is a regime/supervisor change. In any business no matter what it is - The supervisor normally chooses the staff who he wants to work with 9 out of 10 times. Thats no different in the NFL.

So far our staff actually looks like this :
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2398&section=N%20Latest%20News

Front office:

GM - Rick Smith - Broncos
College Scouting - Dale Strahm - Broncos
Pro Scouting - Chuck Banker - Texans

Coaching Staff:

Gary Kubiak (Head Coach) - Broncos
Mike Sherman (Asst. Head Coach/ Offense) - Packers
Troy Calhoun (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks) - Broncos
Richard Smith (Defensive Coordinator) - Dolphins/Lions
Joe Marciano (Special Teams Coordinator) - Texans
Martin Bayless (Asst. Defensive Backs) - Raiders
John Benton (Offensive Line) - Rams
Chick Harris (Running Backs) - Texans
Jon Hoke (Defensive Backs) - Texans
Johnny Holland (Linebackers) - Packers/Seahawks/Lions
Bob Karmelowicz (Defensive Line) - Chiefs
Mike McDaniel (Offensive Assistant) - Broncos
Brian Pariani (Tight Ends) - Syracuse/Broncos/49ers
Robert Saleh (Defensive Assistant) - Texans
Kyle Shanahan (Wide Receivers) - Bucaneers

By my count thats only 4 people out of 15 coaches who were on the staff with Denver. All of them on the offense side. Then we have 2 Front office folks. - Where is this wholesale change to denver you folks are talking about??

IMO - Some of the above points make it out to seem like Kubiac is clueless and that he and the Texans hired a bunch of misfits who couldnt do their jobs and only got a job here based on their friendship merits with Kubiac alone.

I totally disagree with this PoV and frankly its kind of demeaning to coach Kubes.

My point is - How about this staff being hired because they are talented and competant individuals who are familiar with our team or coach along with being succesful professionals at their respective prior places who saw an opportunity and took a shot to come start something new on our team - eh??

IMO were Taking the best parts of Proven winners strategies and improving on them in our own way to create a better product on the field.

Thats how I see our new staff.

Kubes and the few Denver staff that have come over were proven good at their collective jobs and saw a chance to try something new when our coach moved in. IMO It's not like we hired a bunch of Denver scrubs off the street with no experience like some are making it out to be.

I really found the points comparing our staff to Jerry & the Dallas cowboy ex's in poor taste.

You miss the point. Kubiak knew most of his coaching staff during previous stints and did not pick them due to their experience but because they were his buddies. And please, stop with the "Kube" stuff. It's getting pretty pathetic.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 07:12 PM
The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

Of course players are confident and excited. The season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff that will determine how good this coaching staff and management team really is, and how much the players have bought in.

Whatever works.

But Capers didn't bring in a bunch of Carolina and Jacksonville guys. And Casserly wasn't an associate of Capers previously. This whole thing with Kubiak bringing in his cronies really does smell and I've smelled it for a while now.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 07:13 PM
Personally I love seeing these guys coming over from Denver. The Broncos are a proven franchise that has won titles and is always a contender. We need people that know how to win. You are telling me that you wouldn't take the Patriots or Steelers coaching staff if we had the chance? It's not like these guys will make us any worse (there is no place worse than the worst record in the league). We need to give these guys a chance to win and if they fail we can send them to the plank.

When was the last time the Broncos even sniffed a SB without John Elway?

Bobo
06-29-2006, 07:15 PM
I agree with TC and others who have clearly demonstrated that the Bronco-type team is a formula for a successful team.

Bring on the playoffs! :texflag:

That's exactly what the Browns said when they became 49ers Lite. You saw what happened to the Browns -- and the 49ers as well. I was a Browns fan back then but when they simply became another version of the 49ers I dumped them. Now the Texans are doing the same thing. Time for another trip to "The Dump!!"

jmerog
06-29-2006, 07:39 PM
Wow. Please tell me that fans are not starting to cry about bringing in talented individuals with a track record of winning.


My sentiments exactly.

Bobo
06-29-2006, 08:08 PM
1) The new boss brings in his boys. That's what happens in sports and business.

2) Capers and Casserly had a 'philosophy' when they started too.

3) Of course players are confident and excited. It's a new regime and the season hasn't started yet. Let them start 3-7 like Saban's bunch last year and see how they react. That's the kind of stuff (how they react when things go bad - as they inevitably will) that will determine how successful this coaching staff, management team and players will be.

4) Whatever works.

A.) The new boss is supposed to bring in the best folks for the job -- not cronies. B.) Philosophy is one thing. Cronyism is another. C.) Umm, cronyism may very well be one of the many reasons why this DOESN'T work. D.) Cronyism is an activity that should not be lauded, no matter what business you're in.

Capster67
06-29-2006, 09:28 PM
As someone who lives in Denver, and is surrounded by the winning atmosphere and high expectations on a daily basis - let's just say we (Houston and Texan fans) should be so lucky!

South Texan
06-29-2006, 11:11 PM
We need good chemistry not just on the field but behind the scenes too.
Seems to me the Kubes is bringing in guys he is comfortable with and probably share his philosophy, not people he feels he owes.


I mean, it's not like he is picking the new head of FEMA or something. :woot2

BlueThunder
06-30-2006, 12:09 AM
Denver can kiss my azz!They ain't holding nothing on the state of Texas...:howdy:

So all you Denver nuggets need to go back and check yourself and decide if its worth it to you,because we don't drink whiskey from a wine glass down here,,,.You guys have your work cut out for you and the best thing for failure down here is a new rope and a tall tree...Now grab that musket were all going to be heros,,,,


:logo: :trophy:

You have entered Texas,,

Bobo
06-30-2006, 12:17 AM
As someone who lives in Denver, and is surrounded by the winning atmosphere and high expectations on a daily basis - let's just say we (Houston and Texan fans) should be so lucky!

Texans are supposed to be unique -- not copies of another non-Super Bowl, one-and-out unexceptional group. I thought that's what being a Texan was all about. If it's not, go to Denver and cheer for the originals.

Bobo
06-30-2006, 12:19 AM
We need good chemistry not just on the field but behind the scenes too.
Seems to me the Kubes is bringing in guys he is comfortable with and probably share his philosophy, not people he feels he owes.


I mean, it's not like he is picking the new head of FEMA or something. :woot2

"Bringing in guys he's comfortable with" rather than the most qualified? Check out the definition of "cronyism." I think you just recited the meaning of the word.

TwinSisters
06-30-2006, 06:14 AM
Caveat lector: Buddy/Clan vs Merit is a time honoured debate amongst all of humanity. Both have won and lost over the years... Muslims built an empire on merit, Washington forged a nation on merit, Mongols ruled the world with clans, Kennedy ran a country with buddys and 'men of the family'. While Romans won and lost on both. So the Kubiak's buddy system doesn't automatically condem it to failure, however just because Ferdinand Marcos, Suharto, Kennedy, Ford, and the Waltons use the buddy system to conduct business, it doesn't mean automatic success.
----

Is it a Buddy system or is it a Merit based system? That's the question. The question is not about 'if it sucks'. There have been no games played.


Front office:

Bronco Buddy: Rookie GM / GM - Rick Smith - Broncos
Bronco Buddy: 8 Years in job /College Scouting - Dale Strahm - Broncos
Casserly Buddy : 2 years / Pro Scouting - Chuck Banker - Texans

Don't know where Banker is now. His name is not on the charts. There are some Casserly guys there though; Kisiel and Saimes.

Coaching Staff:

Aggie/Bronco Source: Rookie HC /Gary Kubiak (Head Coach) - Broncos
Aggie Buddy: 6 years as HC/GM / Mike Sherman (Asst. HeadCoach/Offense) - Packers
Bronco Buddy: Rookie OC /Troy Calhoun (Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks) - Broncos
Bronco Buddy: 1 year DC /Richard Smith (Defensive Coordinator) - Dolphins/Lions
Capers Buddy: 10 years / Joe Marciano (Special Teams Coordinator) - Texans
Merit: Rookie DBs /Martin Bayless (Asst. Defensive Backs) - Raiders
Kubiak Buddy: 1 Year /John Benton (Offensive Line) - Rams
Capers Merit: 25+ years /Chick Harris (Running Backs) - Texans
Merit: 4 years /Jon Hoke (Defensive Backs) - Texans
Aggie Buddy: 4 Years /Johnny Holland (Linebackers) - Packers/Seahawks/Lions
Casserly Buddy: 14 years / Bob Karmelowicz (Defensive Line) - Chiefs

Bronco Buddy, but this guy doesn't count for beans... he makes coffee. Mike McDaniel (Offensive Assistant) - Broncos

Bronco Buddy: 9 years /Brian Pariani (Tight Ends) - Syracuse/Broncos/49ers
Merit: Rookie, but this guy serves the coffee that McDaniel makes. Robert Saleh (Defensive Assistant) - Texans

Bronco Buddy: Rookie, but never had to make or serve coffee, because he is the Coach's son. Kyle Shanahan (Wide Receivers) - Buccaneers

In the 4 critical spots
HC - Rookie
GM - Rookie
OC - Rookie
DC - 1 year

Smith and Holland come from the Lions. Yes, that is the Detroit Lions. They were fired by the Detroit Lions ( this of course can be seen as a plus or minus ).

Of the two Merit based hires, they most likely are Bowling Green buds.

What's the one thing over the past 5 years that is brought up with the Chiefs? They would be in the Super Bowl if they had a defense. For the past 6 years they have never been ranked above 16th in points allowed or yards allowed.

So our defensive coaches look like a mix of Detroit, KC, and the old Texans. That's not good.
----

The point in taking the time to type all of this crap out is to say they have PROVEN NOTHING. They have a lot TO PROVE.

U4ikrob
06-30-2006, 07:43 AM
Proven Nothing??? Your right in one sense, but only one sense. Its true that Some of the staff havent proven things here as coaches - Not that NONE OF THEM have any experience in the job. It's not like a majority of the staff havent done these jobs or similar jobs anywhere else in the league as you assert. Joe Marciano's Special teams ranked 1st in the league last year and thats just one leftover. You dont even touch on most of the relevant experience they bring in at all. You can tilt the glass sideways and keep looking - Its your choice, but the facts are the staff has some experience bottom line.

I'll address your 4 positions :

Smith - Rookie GM - He served as the Broncos Assistant GM last year and served as the director of pro personnel for six seasons and a DB's coach with denver his first 4 years including the 2 superbowl wins.. He obviously has no experience in the job... Essentially he got a promotion and more decision power, yet all of sudden he has no experience in doing the job??? :sarcasm: :ok:

Kubiak - Rookie Head coach - Yep its true - Hes a rookie in the Coaching league and has done nothing to prove himself. OF course if you look at his respective past jobs - he has plenty of Coaching experience to bring in. It's not like his job changed much. His job is to coach players and run the offense - Kubiak is one of the best at doing these 2 jobs and has proven that fact over the last 10+ years with his records in Denver and San Fran including winning a few Superbowls as the OC with both teams. I would call that relevant job experience when I'm looking to hire someone for certain. Past experience is what you look for in any potential employee - Kubiak has plenty of experience in coaching.

Mike Sherman - Proven HC and the assistant HC here - Certainly not a rookie and has also earned [edit] a few division titles as an HC. Didnt see him listed in the rankings except as an Aggie buddy. I think you completely underestimate Sherman as a coach and mentor as he obvoiously has very good experience in the job and had a 57-39 win record as an HC almost the same as last years SB winner Bill Cowher.

Troy Calhoun - Rookie OC - You had no problem discounting other subordinates with Kubiak - This is another. He's not running the Offense - He's the QB coach. It's the same job he had in Denver. Kubiak will run the offense and has said as much in interviews here.

Richard Smith - DC 1 year - This will be his second year as the DC and his Miami D ranked 16th including 2nd in the league in sacks last year. Thats about 15 grades above where we were last year and a whole lot more sacks. Thats pretty good OJT and a pretty big jump in performance. He also coached Linebackers & Special teams with the Oilers and Broncos so has previous coaching experience also.

[edit] Spell checkers are a pain - Kubiac - Kubiak - bleh

aj.
06-30-2006, 08:12 AM
Miami's defense wasn't "his" (as in Richard Smith's). Smith and Will Muschamp were basically co-coordinators implementing Saban's scheme. That's why Muschamp was forced out this year - because he wanted to be a real defensive coordinator somewhere (Auburn). This is Smith's first year as a DC with full DC authority.

Smith's defense will be better than Fangio's. It can't be worse.

The scuttlebut is that it will be a high risk - high reward system that will make a lot of big plays but will also give up a lot of big plays.

TwinSisters
06-30-2006, 09:01 AM
Kubiak.

Smith has how many years telling people what to do and how many years doing what he is told to do?

Mike Sherman was fired from who? Mike Sherman was not hired by what Hall of Fame coach? What losing coach beat him out for a head coaching job on a team that needs to be turned around?

Even the choice of Jauron as head coach didnít come without a little disagreement and a lot of second guessing. Many felt former Bills player and New Orleans head coach Jim Haslett wouldíve been a perfect fit, but he was never interviewed. Mike Sherman was but didnít get the job despite having a winning record in five of his six seasons as the Packers coach. Instead the chore of turning the Bills around falls on the lap of Jauron, who had a winning season (13-3 in 2001) in exactly one of his five years as the Chicago Bears coach.

If the saying is true that a team will only go as far as the quarterback takes you, then the Bills could be in severe trouble.
http://www.billszone.com/mtlog/archives/2006/06/28/buffalo_bills_head_to_camp_with_many_questions.php

Sherman won ZERO Super Bowls as a head coach, as if that matters. If the assistant postion is such a big deal... then why is Dom Capers the assistant in Miami where Richard Smith was replaced? ( A. Saban's buddy for 30 years )

Green Bay is happy with Sherman gone.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2006-06-27-mccarthy-feature_x.htm

He started with a Super Bowl team and ended up with a 4-12 train wreck.

What do people think about him?

Unfortunately, Sherman's loyalty may have hurt the team a couple of times, as he has gained a reputation of hiring friends of his who are NFL coaches as assistants, regardless of their coaching ability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Sherman
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Richard Smith

Worked under Saban. Saban is a defensive coach just in case you don't follow football all that closely. Smith was fired from the 49ers, fired from Detriot, and replaced in Miami as a co-coordinator by Dom Capers!

Richard Smith has not had a single job on merit. He was hired in Miami because of Saban. He made it to Detroit under Mariucci. He's in Houston under Kubiak from the 49ers. Saban-Smith coached together in Houston under that chimp Jerry Glanville. He has yet to have a single season out on his own showing what he can do.
---

They have a lot to prove.

When you see some little kid moving along upright and makes it to the Super Bowl with training wheels on, do you automatically assume that they can do the same thing without the training wheels?

No, they have to prove it.

HoustonFan
06-30-2006, 09:01 AM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.

I thought you, much like the great majority of this board, wanted to win? Granted this is his first go as a head coach, Denver was always a contender in the time that he was there. I never really cared for Denver - they were one of the teams that dashed the Oilers playoff dreams, but I've got to give them their props. So if Kubiak and co. can bring that here and it translate into this team becoming a contender within the next year or 2, I really wouldn't care if we were playing like the Broncos. THEY'VE WON more times than we have.

Texan Asylum
06-30-2006, 09:10 AM
The only uncomfortable feeling I'm sick of is that feeling of gut-wrenching disappointment, we've all had to endure these past seasons. Whatever it takes man, whatever it takes!

Also T-Chick, love you Texacos. That's some creative thinking. :)

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-30-2006, 10:56 AM
I just don't care about forecasting the future, nor do the current events of hiring a few Broncos expatriates concern me.

First, I have already made my annual wager with my Poker Buddy that roots for those boys up North and is a Texans hater. (Winning Season)

Second, I have already paid for my tickets and I own 2 PSL's. Therefore, my opinion doesnít financially matter as far as reducing any fixed expenditures are concerned.

So that leaves the variable costs of attending the game and I think my wife will grant me the simple pleasure of the $7 peanuts and a couple of cheerleader gyrations in exchange for the chance to see the Texans up close in one of the best venues in the NFL.

Bobo
06-30-2006, 11:04 AM
The only uncomfortable feeling I'm sick of is that feeling of gut-wrenching disappointment, we've all had to endure these past seasons. Whatever it takes man, whatever it takes!

Also T-Chick, love you Texacos. That's some creative thinking. :)

Maybe your expectations were too high. As a season ticket holder, I was very happy with the inaugural season as well as the two seasons following. Heck, what were you expecting? The Super Bowl? "Gut-wrenching disappointment." Sheesh!

Texans_Chick
06-30-2006, 12:01 PM
I am not sure what criteria people are using to say somebody got a job by "merit" versus being a "buddy." Generally, in both football and real life, the majority of good jobs you get are because you knew somebody that would vouch for you.

Joe Marciano, BTW, has worked with Capers and without Capers. He kept his job with the Texans by merit because his ST unit was ranked very highly in the league and has been one of the bright spots on the team. He is well liked by his players and administrative staff. (Very energetic upbeat guy).

Richard Smith is an interesting hire. He knows Kubiak through Smith's time in Denver as a ST coach. Smith has been in the league a long time but has a career of more of a generalist. I'm not sure of this hire, but from what I've heard their 4-3 is supposed to be really straightforward and easy to execute. I've also heard aggressive--high risk, reward. The defense is a bit of a question mark for me just because of the lack of a track record of a Smith D. I was told by an assistant coach that the D's personality would be a bit like Denver/Washington with a little bit of Miami.

I've seen Kyle Shanahan break down film on the offensive side of the ball, and basically he speaks like the only son of a brilliant football coach who also played the position in college that he is coaching. I could watch him all day talk about football stuff--it is lot of fun.

Here is my blog post about all the different people I could find on the Texans that had some tangential relationship to the Broncos. (apologies for the Clarett blast--it wasn't Rick Smith's pick):

Link: A Texans fan humbly apologizes to you Bronco folk (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/06/a_texans_fan_humbly_apologizes.html)

Bobo
06-30-2006, 12:07 PM
I am not sure what criteria people are using to say somebody got a job by "merit" versus being a "buddy." Generally, in both football and real life, the majority of good jobs you get are because you knew somebody that would vouch for you.

A.) I am amused with your comment that seems to imply that football isn't "real life." B.) In most jobs, you generally get the job based on experience and proven ability -- not who you know. If you get it because of who you know, it's called cronyism. C.) Well written story regarding the dangers of cronyism in football:

http://www.johntreed.com/fttloyalty.html

Excerpts:

Commitment to cronyism
How are coaches disloyal to the hierarchy above? The most common and blatant disloyalty I have seen is cronyism.

Head coaches, as well as athletic directors and NFL owners, tend to hire their cronies regardless of their qualifications relative to the others who would have been interested in the job. I have seen coaches who bordered on worthless last for decades under a particular head coach. In most cases, their tenure got these assistants eventually promoted into positions of considerable responsibility, namely, they were coordinators of the defense or special teams, and less often, the offense.

I find this profoundly disturbing. Head coaches invariably promise their players, bosses, alumni, fans, students, media, etc. that they will leave no stone unturned in their pursuit of victories. With regard to hiring assistants, that means they will search the world over looking for the absolute best assistants. Then they hire a bunch of empty polo shirts whose main, or only, virtue is loyalty to and personal compatibility with the head coach in question. Typically, they worked together in the past maybe at the head coach’s last job. They have been sometimes comically loyal to the head coach so he is returning that loyalty to them—in spite of the fact that such hirings are acts of intense and blatant disloyalty to the organization, players, and supporters of the team in question.

At one school where I coached, one of the near worthless coaches was given to repeated pontificating in the presence of other coaches including the head guy, seemingly without provocation, on the supreme importantce of loyalty in coaching. My impression was that this guy was a one-trick pony and that loyalty to the boss was his only trick so he felt compelled to keep reminding the boss of his loyalty and pre-emptively trying to make the boss feel guilty if he ever had thoughts of firing Mr. Loyalty.

Would that work? He was still there after I left.

All new people
It is standard in football coaching for the new head coach to bring in his own people. Just like the newly elected president of the U.S. bringing all new people to the top echelons of the government. But then presidents are politicians. Are head football coaches supposed to so blatantly mimic politicians? Don’t they claim to be coaches first? Wouldn’t they deny being politicians except perhaps to joke, “Sometimes it seems like that.”

Do non-political professions bring in all new people when they take a job? When a guy becomes head of a construction company, does he replace all the supervisors and foremen? When someone becomes the new head of a hospital, do they fire all the doctors and get new ones? Did the new head of Hewlett-Packard fire all the engineers and managers when he took over?

The answer in these other professions is no, they do not replace everyone. They respect the expertise of the existing people and keep them in place. The reason head coaches in football generally replace everyone is that they want guys who are loyal to them and the previous guy hired guys who were loyal to him. This is a behavior pattern of politicians, not competent professionals.

Contrarianism
Choosing contrarian tactics and strategies increases a football team’s chances of winning. If a coach was loyal to the hierarchy above, he would always choose such contrarian tactics and strategies. But, in fact, head football coaches rarely do that. Why? They are being disloyal to their players, employers, etc. because they place saving their own ass above the interests of the team.

Conformity is more likely to lead to continued employment as a head coach so they conform even though it reduces the team’s chances of winning. Contrarianism may work. It may even work big time. Certainly there is little chance of conformity working big time, so contrarianism is the best chance for big-time success. Yet the coaches refuse to do it. They are being loyal to the head coach, that is, to themselves. They are taking care of Number One. The players of whom they daily demand “110%” are supposed to win in spite of the head coach’s unimaginative, me-too, take-no-career-risk approach.

Not conducive to innovation or change
My main point is that all this loyalty is the opposite of an atmosphere that encourages innovation and change from below. Head coaches generally surround themselves with yes men and sycophants.

There is a fine line between being loyal to your boss and sucking up to him. The loyalty they taught us at West Point was downward. You take care of your troops, including when they are being mistreated by your superiors. You stand up for them. Doing that takes moral courage. And the way you get loyalty from your troops upward—the right kind of loyalty, not ass kissing—is by first showing loyalty downward to them and thereby earning their loyalty.

rafterticket
06-30-2006, 12:56 PM
Imaginary quote:

"Led by the devastating, four sack pass rush of Mario Williams, and the incredible arm of David Carr, the Houston Broncos have won their first Super Bowl. Andre Johnson led all receivers with 146 yards receiving on nine receptions, and Domanick Davis added 121 rushing yards on twenty-four carries. Coach Gary Kubiak credited the entire defense for an outstanding effort, and giving the offense plenty of opportunities to score......"

No. I've got no problem with it.

BlueThunder
06-30-2006, 01:38 PM
I'm giving all the coaches a clean slate.It don't mater where they come from or what they did.All that matters is they come down here with all odds against them and fight beside us live or die.texanpride

Hulk75
06-30-2006, 01:51 PM
Who cares were they come from, I am happy we got coaches that know how to win and know what it takes. NEXT.

TwinSisters
06-30-2006, 03:11 PM
I am not sure what criteria people are using to say somebody got a job by "merit" versus being a "buddy." Generally, in both football and real life, the majority of good jobs you get are because you knew somebody that would vouch for you.

I was told by an assistant coach that the D's personality would be a bit like Denver/Washington with a little bit of Miami.

Merit means you were hired more for your ability and track record for what you have done in what you will be doing. What you have done speaks for you, not your vouching buddies.

Buddy means you got the job over a different guy with more ability and merit, because you are the buddy. Your vouching buddies speak about you over what you have done, your merit.
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I am not sure what you are talking about with football and real life??? Football is real life. You don't strike me for being much of Madden player either.
---

Buddy system is not inferior to merit system. Kubiak could very well make the buddy system work for him, but to start saying you have a bunch of proven winners is crazy talk. We have a bunch of rookies that have various degrees of success, this in no way means instant winning. We don't know if we have a Dave Campo or a John Fox.

Our previous coaches were great coaches, but they didn't work with Casserly and whatever screwed up management system we had in place.

Don't wanna listen to me right? That's cool.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060628/SPORTS/606280380/1002/sports

Miami players have said it's obvious Mularkey and Capers are former head coaches because of the way they talk. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Center Rex Hadnot said Mularkey is stern and to the point, just like Saban. Hadnot added that it helps to have the same message repeated over and over, so it sinks in. Defensive players can't wait to pick Capers' brain because of his past success working a system very similar to the one they're running now.

"He brings a lot of knowledge and experience, and he's been through a lot, coached a lot of great players, a lot of great teams, a lot of great defenses," Dolphins defensive end Jason Taylor said. "The guys last year did a great job, but Dom brings an added experience.

"Like I said, he coached some great clubs before and he brings that here and can teach us a lot of things. I know I'll be leaning on Dom to learn a lot more to get through training camp."

So the system works in Miami, but doesn't work in Houston? What gives there?

MorKnolle
06-30-2006, 03:23 PM
Merit means you were hired more for your ability and track record for what you have done in what you will be doing. What you have done speaks for you, not your vouching buddies.

Buddy means you got the job over a different guy with more ability and merit, because you are the buddy. Your vouching buddies speak about you over what you have done, your merit.
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I am not sure what you are talking about with football and real life??? Football is real life. You don't strike me for being much of Madden player either.
---

Buddy system is not inferior to merit system. Kubiak could very well make the buddy system work for him, but to start saying you have a bunch of proven winners is crazy talk. We have a bunch of rookies that have various degrees of success, this in no way means instant winning. We don't know if we have a Dave Campo or a John Fox.

Our previous coaches were great coaches, but they didn't work with Casserly and whatever screwed up management system we had in place.

Don't wanna listen to me right? That's cool.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060628/SPORTS/606280380/1002/sports


So the system works in Miami, but doesn't work in Houston? What gives there?

Because Capers let Fangio run a cover 2 out of our 3-4 rather than running the aggressive defense that he used to run in Pittsburgh and Carolina.

AFD1717
06-30-2006, 03:37 PM
Most of the great coaches in this league got their shot because they were somebody's "buddy" at some point. We do seem to have a lot of "buddys", but I'm chalking that up to the fact that we run a somewhat unconventional system and there aren't as many people who are familiar with it to choose from.

TwinSisters
06-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Because Capers let Fangio run a cover 2 out of our 3-4 rather than running the aggressive defense that he used to run in Pittsburgh and Carolina.

Could be, but I disagree.

I think he had a bunch numbnuts "that had to think too much" and then on top of that had too many injuries to deal with. The wrong guys for the right plan, not the other way around.
---

Here's a classic merit VS buddy hire from another thread

Criticized by some in the league for the fat contract that he used to pry coveted offensive line coach Hudson Houck away from the San Diego Chargers a year ago, Dolphins coach Nick Saban sat in a golf cart after a recent minicamp practice and, with a full year's perspective on which to rely, concluded that he and the Dolphins' organization got the better end of the deal.

"It's the position on your staff where a good, detailed [assistant coach] can make the biggest difference," Saban said. "By definition, any offensive line coach is working with the poorest athletes on your football team. But by creating camaraderie, working on technique, motivating, he can make guys better collectively than they probably are as individuals. That's why the good (offensive line coaches) are at such a premium."

Essentially, that summed up the job Houck did in 2005, taking a relatively motley and undistinguished group of blockers and cobbling them into a unit good enough to succeed. That the Dolphins achieved a No. 14 statistical ranking in total offense was, in large part, due to his efforts.

His reward: Now Houck, who has carved out an impressive coaching career by remaking offensive lines wherever he has worked, gets to do it all over again.

http://www.miamidolphins.com/lockerroom/coachingstaff/coachingstaff_houck_h.asp

Who did we hire?

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coaches_detail.php?PRKey=228&section=TH%20Coaches

Colorado State and the Rams. A guy from the school Kubiak's son attends and looks up to Kubiak for tutelage.

NFL coaches want Houck on merit. Benton is being given a chance by his buddy.

This is not to be confused that Benton cannot get the job done, but nor should it be for proven winner.

HeartofHouston
06-30-2006, 05:36 PM
I'm not sure if someone already posted these statistics (it's soooo many replies that I couldnt catch it) so I'm gonna do it..

Denver Stats (For The Entire NFL):
Yards Per Game = 5th
Yards Per Play = 4th
Time Of Possesion = 1st

Points Per Game = 7th
Total TDS = 5th
Rushing TDs = 3rd

Rushing Yards = 2nd
Rushing Avg = 2nd
Rushing yards per Game = 2nd
Rushing First Downs = 1st
20+ Yards Rushes = 5th

Defense
Passing TDS Allowed = 6th
Rushing Yards Allowed = 2nd
Rushing Avg Allowed = 2nd
Rushing TDS allowed = 10th
Rushes 20+ Yards = 6th

Tackeaways = 3rd
Interceptions = 6th

Bobo
06-30-2006, 06:34 PM
I'm not sure if someone already posted these statistics (it's soooo many replies that I couldnt catch it) so I'm gonna do it..

Denver Stats (For The Entire NFL):
Yards Per Game = 5th
Yards Per Play = 4th
Time Of Possesion = 1st

Points Per Game = 7th
Total TDS = 5th
Rushing TDs = 3rd

Rushing Yards = 2nd
Rushing Avg = 2nd
Rushing yards per Game = 2nd
Rushing First Downs = 1st
20+ Yards Rushes = 5th

Defense
Passing TDS Allowed = 6th
Rushing Yards Allowed = 2nd
Rushing Avg Allowed = 2nd
Rushing TDS allowed = 10th
Rushes 20+ Yards = 6th

Tackeaways = 3rd
Interceptions = 6th

If you want to copy a team, then maybe Houston should rip off a more successful team such as the Patriots or Steelers. Personally, I'd like to see a team that has its OWN character rather than watching a squad that's guilty of identity theft.

Bobo
06-30-2006, 06:36 PM
Most of the great coaches in this league got their shot because they were somebody's "buddy" at some point. We do seem to have a lot of "buddys", but I'm chalking that up to the fact that we run a somewhat unconventional system and there aren't as many people who are familiar with it to choose from.

Unconverntional? Heck, they run the same kind of thing in ... where was that again? Denver? Sorry, not so "unconventional." This thing smacks of cronyism from the GM all the way down to the assistant coaches.

Bobo
06-30-2006, 06:38 PM
Who cares were they come from, I am happy we got coaches that know how to win and know what it takes. NEXT.

What coaches "know how to win?" The majority are very, very inexperienced. You should care where they came from because cronyism hurts the team's chances of winning.

Bobo
06-30-2006, 06:39 PM
Imaginary quote:

"Led by the devastating, four sack pass rush of Mario Williams, and the incredible arm of David Carr, the Houston Broncos have won their first Super Bowl. Andre Johnson led all receivers with 146 yards receiving on nine receptions, and Domanick Davis added 121 rushing yards on twenty-four carries. Coach Gary Kubiak credited the entire defense for an outstanding effort, and giving the offense plenty of opportunities to score......"

No. I've got no problem with it.

So how does an "imaginary quote" make you feel good about cronyism? :brickwall

Bobo
06-30-2006, 06:41 PM
I thought you, much like the great majority of this board, wanted to win?

Cronyism is the antithesis of winning.

bayoudreamn
06-30-2006, 09:21 PM
This is starting to get a little ridiculous. After Kubiak, we get Rick Smith, and then Strahm, who are all from Denver. This whole Denver affiliation is getting a little too much for me. I can't help feel that we are the poor man's Denver team right now.

Thankfully, Kubiak wants to build a championship defense, and it looks like ours won't be like Denver's. :) I don't remember hearing much about Denver D other than Champ Bailey highlights. Haven't they been trying to put together a good Dline for years now? Anyways, it's getting to be a little too much. Denver always looks like a team who's in the race for the Post season, but there are a few things I don't think they do that well.

Drafting is a biggie as the people who are going to be in charge of the draft are Denver guys. Sorry, but I don't remember Denver as being a team that drafts particularly well. It took them a really long time to find a servicable QB in Plummer, and it's not like I see any star players on that team. You got Al Wilson and that's pretty much it. It seems that they've been built totally around their running game. Time will tell of course, but the people who are going to be in charge of personnel are going to have a lot to prove.

When you draft 15th or later every year don't get the top choices. Not necessarily a good thing, but I'll take it!