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View Full Version : K. Walter or J. Mathis?!


johnny_tlmn
06-21-2006, 10:02 PM
Kevin Walter is finally coming out of the shadows, and he may be part Kubiak’s vision of the Texans’ future. What part he will play in that future is still unknown, but Kubiak is very optimistic he will play a big role in the offense With Johnson and Moulds as the two elements of the equation, could Walter be the answer or could it be Mathis?!:stirpot:

Texans86
06-21-2006, 10:11 PM
Currently, I believe Walter has the edge as he seems to be more polished as a reciever, and Mathis will be out until the regular season. He needed this time to continue his learning at WR, and now he is falling more and more behind. No one doubts his skill at KR, and he showed flashes at WR last season, but Kubiak seems to be putting more emphasis on size and physicallity than speed. That doesn't help Mathis' position at all.

TexanFan881
06-21-2006, 10:19 PM
I think it would rather be stated as Kevin Walter, Derick Armstrong, or Derrick Lewis. It's going to be a good battle, for the #3 WR position, and to make the team. Don't you just love competition. :)

infantrycak
06-21-2006, 10:22 PM
Jerome Mathis was targeted 13 times last year resulting in 5 receptions (38.5% caught, 13 ypr, 15.4% 1st down) and 2 drops.

Kevin Walter was targeted 29 times last year resulting in 19 receptions (65.5% caught, 11.1 ypr, 48.3% 1st down) and 1 drop.

As fast as he is, Mathis has a lot to learn about route running and may (the sample size is very small) need to work on his hands. At this point he isn't in the #3 WR race IMO.

DRAMA
06-21-2006, 10:24 PM
Well, look at it like this - when Kubes got here, he went out and got Walter. He prrrrrrrobably knows something that we don't about the guy.

TexansLucky13
06-21-2006, 10:35 PM
I (obviously) saw a lot of prospect in Mathis last year, but I don't think he is ready for #3 behind Moulds. Walters will fit in perfectly, and Mathis should take this year to both recover from his injury and soften up his hands.

TexanFan881
06-21-2006, 10:55 PM
With Mathis' injury, I think the #4 WR position battle between Derrick Lewis, Derick Armstrong, and Jerome Mathis is going to be the biggest battle, because 1 will miss the team and since Derrick Lewis can KR that risks Mathis (even though I think it's too early to give up on him and Derrick will get the boot because of his age)

Scooter
06-22-2006, 12:47 AM
other - i'm pulling for derrick "i just catch everything" armstrong.

Corrosion
06-22-2006, 01:36 AM
Mathis isnt even in the equasion for the #3 WR spot at this point . He was RAW coming out of college . His team didnt even have a WR coach . To this point he's gotten by on talent alone (which you can do on special teams) and hasnt put in the work . Until that happens he wont crack the top 3 on any team much less one coached by Kubiak .

I'd prefer Walters or Armstrong who I think should have been given a shot last season over the combination of Bradford and Gaffeny .

LORK 88
06-22-2006, 03:14 AM
Mathis isnt even in the equasion for the #3 WR spot at this point .
my thoughts exactly. This guy might end up on the PUP list which equals no action til week 6, is injured, and has 5 catches his entire career. Is this thread a Madden-Based question, or are some people seriously considering him our #3 right now? Walters could turn out as our #2 in the long run, Mathis has a LOOOOOONG way to go just to get to where he was last season . . .

the wonger need food
06-22-2006, 08:19 AM
Kevin Walter is finally coming out of the shadows, and he may be part Kubiak’s vision of the Texans’ future. What part he will play in that future is still unknown, but Kubiak is very optimistic he will play a big role in the offense With Johnson and Moulds as the two elements of the equation, could Walter be the answer or could it be Mathis?!:stirpot:

Walter was never in the shadows. He was one of Kubiak's first (4th overall) free agent signings and was brought in to be his Ed McCaffrey. It's his job to lose.

TEXANRED
06-22-2006, 09:04 AM
other - i'm pulling for derrick "i just catch everything" armstrong.
I would have to agree. He reminds me of an old Oiler receiver, I think his name was Cole, Coleman, Coles, somthing like that, anywho, one season he had 70 or 75 catches no touchdowns but was your clutch go to guy on third down. He may not have been able to torch it down the field for a score but was able to keep the chains moving.

Much like Jay Novaceck(spl) did for the Cowboys.

IMHO it is these types of players that define championship teams.

Lets face it, as of right now, AJ hasen't shown to be clutch, I don't know how clutch Moulds has been and know nothing of Walters. I do know Mathis is a younger faster Corey Bradford.

But who really knows anything?

Low Life
06-22-2006, 09:13 AM
I'm with you guys on Armstrong. That dude is money. What are his stats on targeted/completions/drops?

Bearfan Blue and Orange
06-22-2006, 09:21 AM
I'm with you guys on Armstrong. That dude is money. What are his stats on targeted/completions/drops?
CAREER STATS
RECEIVING
Stats Team G GS REC YDS AVG LONG TD
2003 Texans 9 1 7 75 10.7 18 1
2004 Texans 14 1 29 415 14.3 44 1
2005 Texans 13 3 9 115 12.8 28 0
Career 36 5 45 605 13.4 44 2

Bearfan Blue and Orange
06-22-2006, 09:27 AM
Here is a link to the split stats on Derrick Armstrong. It show how many times he was targeted (thrown to) and caught, situations, ect.

http://footballguys.com/ArmsDe00-4.php

This does not mean he dropped the ball, it just means it was thrown in his direction, catchable or not.

GoTexans
06-22-2006, 09:39 AM
Mathis should just return kicks that's what got him in the pro bowl.

Scooter
06-22-2006, 09:47 AM
Here is a link to the split stats on Derrick Armstrong. It show how many times he was targeted (thrown to) and caught, situations, ect.

http://footballguys.com/ArmsDe00-4.php

This does not mean he dropped the ball, it just means it was thrown in his direction, catchable or not.

for the very small sampling to go off of (not really enough to justify anything), that's a pretty strong target to catch ratio with 62 total targets and 45 catches, a better percentage of catches than any other receiver on our roster. especially when compared against andre johnson & corey bradford ... bradford barely beating the 50% catch mark in 04 & 05, and failing to even do reach it in 02 & 03. receiving numbers are near impossible to use accurately though because they dont take into account drops, poor or impossible passes, defense, and "how'd he catch that?!" plays.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Mathis is just too green... doesn't have "football knowledge yet".

Once he figures out what he is doing... his speed will make him a major receiver later on. Being hurt isn't just isn't helping his education.

TK_Gamer
06-22-2006, 12:53 PM
I agree with most, mathis even without the injury is not even in contention for the #3 spot or the #4 spot. I think he makes the team, but for kick returner and future WR possibilties. he needs to work ALOT on route runnig and catching the ball

receiving numbers are near impossible to use accurately though because they dont take into account drops, poor or impossible passes, defense, and "how'd he catch that?!" plays

Ithink thats one thing in carr's favor also when he misses he usually over throws it. so most drops from carr are just that, drops

powerfuldragon
06-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Derrick 'stickum' Armstrong is underutilized IMO.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-22-2006, 01:08 PM
Ithink thats one thing in carr's favor also when he misses he usually over throws it. so most drops from carr are just that, drops


Man, nobody dropped the ball like Bradford use to... that was soul destroying seeing Bradford get behind a receiver only to drop the ball.

AFD1717
06-22-2006, 01:36 PM
Mathis definately has the higher ceiling, but that guy is going to be a shooting star. Walter will have a very solid NFL career as a #2 or #3 guy and should be the type of player that all good teams have but nobody outside of that city knows about.

baba ganoush
06-22-2006, 02:31 PM
other - i'm pulling for derrick "i just catch everything" armstrong.

i agree

andre johnson
eric moulds
derick armstrong
kevin walter
derrick lewis...

i think mathis should only do kick returns andbe put in on hail mary plays

Bearfan Blue and Orange
06-22-2006, 02:56 PM
i agree

andre johnson
eric moulds
derick armstrong
kevin walter
derrick lewis...

i think mathis should only do kick returns andbe put in on hail mary plays


I agree, but with one exception you missed...

andre johnson
eric moulds
kevin walter
derick armstrong
derrick lewis...

MorKnolle
06-22-2006, 03:25 PM
As of right now Walter is easily the better WR between the two, and I would put Armstrong, probably Derick Lewis, and maybe even guys like Anderson ahead of Mathis as well. Mathis definitely has potential to become a better WR and is definitely a better KR, but that's about it as of right now.

rmartin65
06-22-2006, 10:59 PM
Mathis has the most potential. Walter is better now.

Scooter
06-22-2006, 11:19 PM
Mathis has the most potential. Walter is better now.

how do you figure mathis has the most potential? his hands? route running? great size? ability to work in traffic? i'd like to know what i'm missing that's earned mathis the "receiver of the future" status.

corey bradford's fast, lets bring him back.

TexanFan881
06-22-2006, 11:22 PM
Kevin Walter is the best option as of now. If we had the old coaching staff I would say Armstrong because it's so close and the old coaching staff had to be familiar with Armstrong. Jerome Mathis might have the the most "potential" because he everything that can make him better he can learn, and he has the speed to make it happen (which you can't learn).

infantrycak
06-23-2006, 08:33 AM
If we had the old coaching staff I would say Armstrong because it's so close and the old coaching staff had to be familiar with Armstrong.

Hmmm--that must be why the old coaching staff gave Armstrong so much playing time when competing with Gaffney and Bradford.

Vinny
06-23-2006, 10:49 AM
I think if the team was as high on Armstrong as many fans believe...they wouldn't have given a pick for Walters. Mathis is a LONG way away, and may never be any more than a journeyman kick returner. Growing up would help him...but that isn't a given.

chuckm
06-23-2006, 12:55 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Armstrong did not make the opening day roster ...

SAMURAITEXAN
06-23-2006, 06:16 PM
I agree, but with one exception you missed...

andre johnson
eric moulds
kevin walter
derick armstrong
derrick lewis...
I agree with your #1~#5 WR' order for now. But this order could change after preseason. Especially #4~#5 position possibly #3 as well.

Scooter
06-23-2006, 06:24 PM
I think if the team was as high on Armstrong as many fans believe...they wouldn't have given a pick for Walters. Mathis is a LONG way away, and may never be any more than a journeyman kick returner. Growing up would help him...but that isn't a given.

i think we would've picked up walters either way since we released the previous season's 2 & 3 receivers just a couple days before, and moulds was still a few weeks away from being signed. the staff probably isnt as high on armstrong as they are walters at this point, but i'm willing to bet he makes the final roster. if they werent going to keep him, he would've been cut already.

bayoudreamn
06-23-2006, 08:53 PM
i think we would've picked up walters either way since we released the previous season's 2 & 3 receivers just a couple days before, and moulds was still a few weeks away from being signed. the staff probably isnt as high on armstrong as they are walters at this point, but i'm willing to bet he makes the final roster. if they werent going to keep him, he would've been cut already.

I don't see Kubes cutting people that "could" fit the scheme. The cuts have all been people who didn't fit. He may cut people a little early to help them get on with another team but I don't see him running things that way. I don't think he's being unfair, I think he's just committed to doing things to benefit the team. I believe he feels like players being where they are is all they should expect.