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CloakNNNdagger
06-10-2006, 10:21 PM
Ibar Harry in another thread made the comment:

“We have 3 WR's who in fact can almost act like TE's. They are big, strong and can block reasonably well. Don't be surprised if in fact we use they like TE's in some situations. We are putting together a very interesting offense.”

This made me look at the growing forest for the trees.........Has anyone else noticed that the Texans, with their choice of players and approach to coaching are compiling a unique type of team? A type of team ultimately projected to consist of very few players that do not serve AT LEAST dual roles/positions?????

Tex Trenches
06-10-2006, 10:35 PM
True depth is not two players being able to play one position, it's one player being able to play two. Kubiak is a genious.

Corrosion
06-10-2006, 10:53 PM
A type of team ultimately projected to consist of very few players that do not serve AT LEAST dual roles/positions?????


Kubiak has said as much more than once . Such as saying that a player wouldnt make the team strictly as a kick returner as has been the case in past seasons.

Samer
06-10-2006, 11:04 PM
Kubiack is the man...

YoungTexanFan
06-11-2006, 12:00 AM
Kubiak has said as much more than once . Such as saying that a player wouldnt make the team strictly as a kick returner as has been the case in past seasons.

No player made the team before strictly as a returner. Mathis was at WR at times, and was listed as one as well. Moses was a WR also, and saw a good deal of playing time. Buchanon is a starting CB. Davis is our starting RB. Capers never kept anyone who would be strictly a return man.

Texans_Chick
06-11-2006, 12:40 AM
True depth is not two players being able to play one position, it's one player being able to play two. Kubiak is a genious.


And its not just that. A Denver offense is a very team oriented offense and not so much a star oriented offense. Of course, they can exploit other team's weaknesses, but it is not dependant on any one WR or RB being an awesome individual talent.

This helps with depth because you aren't so dependant on a injurable individual talent staying in the game. You just plug in another guy who knows the system and it can work.

So, maybe there isn't a superstar left tackle.

Or a #1 pick in the draft running back.

Or a superstar QB who can do such spectacular things that is wrong not to design offenses to highlight those things.

The depth is that you are not the Atlanta Falcons after Vick gets hurt. Our old backup QBs are gone because they don't mimic Carr's best skill and the thing that the Denver offense features--throwing the bootleg. If you look at what Rosenfels is best at is throwing the bootleg. They are trying to get identical parts throughout the team so if one guys goes down, his fungible replacement is right behind him. At least that is the attempt.

CloakNNNdagger
06-11-2006, 01:01 AM
Not only speaking of dual return players...........think of the TE's used as HB's, linemen interchanged with TE's, linebackers with DE's, DT's with DE's, OT's with OG's, even OL's with HB/RB. Oposing teams will need computerized programs just to keep up with players and their positions.

Ibar_Harry
06-11-2006, 01:35 AM
Ibar Harry in another thread made the comment:

“We have 3 WR's who in fact can almost act like TE's. They are big, strong and can block reasonably well. Don't be surprised if in fact we use they like TE's in some situations. We are putting together a very interesting offense.”

This made me look at the growing forest for the trees.........Has anyone else noticed that the Texans, with their choice of players and approach to coaching are compiling a unique type of team? A type of team ultimately projected to consist of very few players that do not serve AT LEAST dual roles/positions?????

Thanks for picking up on what I said. We are going to be a very hard team to defense. All of our receivers are big and can park over the middle and all have excellent hands. They can also do down field blocking and/or stay in and block. The backs will be able to do similar things. We have yet to see what our TE's will be like. Then you have Wand who could run a tackle eligible play.

There are several other attributes of this ball club that are also apparent. They are picking up very smart, football smart people, team players and people who have zero off the field issues. They are concentrating on football with few other destrations. You can tell people like each other on this team. The back they brought in from Tampa already knows all of the offense or something close to that. You have DR on the defense doing the same thing.

Beyond the offense is what the defense is looking like. It would appear we are going to be able to put a lot of pressure on the other team. Even as important it looks like this year we have a good shot at stopping the run. I want to say we will be a complete team this year with a very above average coaching staff. My expectations for this ball club are very high. Its because we are seeing a unique chemistry that rarely is seen on an NFL team. In this case it looks like the whole is much bigger than the parts and that is what makes championship teams.

CloakNNNdagger
06-11-2006, 02:00 AM
Cinci's Pro Football Hall of Fame OT, Anthony Muńoz, caught 7 passes for 18 yards and 4 touchdowns in his prolific 13-year career................Short passes, long "returns." ;)

DocBar
06-11-2006, 07:01 AM
Ibar Harry in another thread made the comment:

“We have 3 WR's who in fact can almost act like TE's. They are big, strong and can block reasonably well. Don't be surprised if in fact we use they like TE's in some situations. We are putting together a very interesting offense.”

This made me look at the growing forest for the trees.........Has anyone else noticed that the Texans, with their choice of players and approach to coaching are compiling a unique type of team? A type of team ultimately projected to consist of very few players that do not serve AT LEAST dual roles/positions?????
I'm not trying to rain on any parades, but Capers said the same thing, especially about O-linemen. IMO, I would rather have a player that is exceptional at 1 position rather than a player who is servicable at 2. The receiver part of that IS intrigueing when you think of the different formations
it affords you. There will always be draft picks and UFA's to fill in on special teams and second stringers to provide the depth. I want my first stringers to be the best in the league at their particular position. :twocents:

CloakNNNdagger
06-11-2006, 07:36 AM
I'm not trying to rain on any parades, but Capers said the same thing, especially about O-linemen. IMO, I would rather have a player that is exceptional at 1 position rather than a player who is servicable at 2. The receiver part of that IS intrigueing when you think of the different formations
it affords you. There will always be draft picks and UFA's to fill in on special teams and second stringers to provide the depth. I want my first stringers to be the best in the league at their particular position. :twocents:

___________________________________

The TWO are NOT by any means EXCLUSIVE when you look at a player being EXCEPTIONAL at one position AND very SERVICEABLE at another, which is what I see unfolding here. Capers et al. were forever plugging in questionable players into questionable positions..........with unqestionable and predictable results. Kub et al. are compiling a group of players whose strengths are likely to feed off each other, with a solid base for their main position, and well thought out secondary assignments well within their talents and limitations. The development of these secondary talents are being done in such a way as to not distract from their primary responsibility, but to allow superior DEPTH and VERSATILITY to THE SYSTEM.................and KEEP THE OPPONENTS ON THEIR TOES, OFF BALANCE, AND GUESSING.

DocBar
06-11-2006, 08:12 AM
___________________________________

The TWO are NOT by any means EXCLUSIVE when you look at a player being EXCEPTIONAL at one position AND very SERVICEABLE at another, which is what I see unfolding here. Capers et al. were forever plugging in questionable players into questionable positions..........with unqestionable and predictable results. Kub et al. are compiling a group of players whose strengths are likely to feed off each other, with a solid base for their main position, and well thought out secondary assignments well within their talents and limitations. The development of these secondary talents are being done in such a way as to not distract from their primary responsibility, but to allow superior DEPTH and VERSATILITY to THE SYSTEM.................and KEEP THE OPPONENTS ON THEIR TOES, OFF BALANCE, AND GUESSING.
I sit corrected. Very good points. It will be a very interesting year watching this evolve and implemented on the field. Much better than the de-evolution of the Capers Era. After all of the "versatility" comments from Capers in regards to "'tweeners" and offensive linemen, I'm a little gunshy with that phrase. :twocents:

Double Barrel
06-11-2006, 11:03 AM
I really like Coach Kubiak and the direction he seems to be taking our team...BUT, I'm holding off on the "genius" tag until we see what happens on the field. We can have all the talent in the world, but the proof will be how they perform as a unit and how they play under pressure. We've got three out of our first four games at home, so hopefully we'll hit the ground running and get 2-2 or 3-1 record.

It'll be interesting to see how the concept of interchangeable players at various positions works out. However, I really want to see how they do at their primary position and most important, the attitude of the team for the entire 60 minutes of game.

Runner
06-11-2006, 11:23 AM
It'll be interesting to see how the concept of interchangeable players at various positions works out. However, I really want to see how they do at their primary position and most important, the attitude of the team for the entire 60 minutes of game.

I don't think we'll see a whole lot of this concept. A TE as back-up FB? Sure. An extra o-lineman in goaline situations? Absolutely. Those are fairly standard "interchangeable" positions.

Dre at tight end? I woudn't hold my breath waiting for that one.

I too want players to excel at their primary positions.

HARRYJ
06-11-2006, 03:37 PM
You can line anybody up anywhere you want. Read my sig.:redtowel:

aj.
06-11-2006, 05:40 PM
A Denver offense is a very team oriented offense and not so much a star oriented offense.

I don't know about that. Their SB teams were very much star oriented on the offensive side of the ball with guys like Terrell Davis, John Elway, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith and Shannon Sharpe to name a few. You can spread around the touches and still have star players.

HARRYJ
06-11-2006, 05:41 PM
Hi aj.

infantrycak
06-11-2006, 08:09 PM
No player made the team before strictly as a returner. Mathis was at WR at times, and was listed as one as well. Moses was a WR also, and saw a good deal of playing time. Buchanon is a starting CB. Davis is our starting RB. Capers never kept anyone who would be strictly a return man.

That's just not realistic at all. JJ Moses was as pure a return man as kept on any roster in the league. Every return man in the league is listed on the roster at some nominal position such as WR. Some actually perform in that role--Dante Hall--some are pure returners. JJ never appeared in a game as a WR--he was a pure return man.

Texans_Chick
06-11-2006, 09:20 PM
I don't know about that. Their SB teams were very much star oriented on the offensive side of the ball with guys like Terrell Davis, John Elway, Tom Nalen, Rod Smith and Shannon Sharpe to name a few. You can spread around the touches and still have star players.

John Elway was the only one of those guys who was an undeniable superstud that you might want to adjust your offense for his strength. The rest, well, is pretty amazing:

Terrell Davis-6th round pick
Shannon Sharpe-7th round pick
Tom Nalen-7th round pick
Rod Smith- undrafted, he loves Kubiak (http://www.gazette.com/broncos/display.php?id=1314054):

“I love him to death,” Smith said earlier this month. “My career wouldn’t be nowhere near where it is without that guy. I guarantee that.

“I couldn’t imagine, honestly, playing for another coordinator with the smarts he has and the ability to put me and our team in a position to make plays and give us a chance to win games.”



Denver has a system. They get players to fit that system. The system gives those players an opportunity to be stars if they work hard and do what they are supposed to.

HARRYJ
06-11-2006, 09:24 PM
Get them facts outta here!:)

aj.
06-11-2006, 09:27 PM
I know where those guys were drafted. I was responding to your comment:

"A Denver offense is a very team oriented offense and not so much a star oriented offense."

bayoudreamn
06-11-2006, 09:32 PM
I know where those guys were drafted. I was responding to your comment:

"A Denver offense is a very team oriented offense and not so much a star oriented offense."

The question is: What will the difference be between Kubiak coordinated offense and a Kubiak coached team. That should be very interesting to see. Shanahan has the "genius" label, but Kubiak ran the offense....hmmmm.

aj.
06-11-2006, 09:33 PM
Well, based on the system, Wali Lundy should rush for 2000 yards next year, I guess.

bayoudreamn
06-11-2006, 09:37 PM
Well, based on the system, Wali Lundy should rush for 2000 yards next year, I guess.

Yea. I think that's why the Texans aren't grabbing much attention nationally. I think the media is bouncing around to so many teams they only really see one thing when they glance in this direction, but when you stand back and see the whole picture. This team has some huge potential.

Texans_Chick
06-11-2006, 11:19 PM
I know where those guys were drafted. I was responding to your comment:

"A Denver offense is a very team oriented offense and not so much a star oriented offense."


The comment goes in the context of the entirety of what I was writing and was never meant as a stand alone sentence.

It goes to the point that you create more depth when your offense is not entirely based around a superstar drafted player, like a Mike Vick.

If you draft Reggie or draft VY, it is a waste not to tailor an offense to their special skills.

If you run the Denver style offense, it is best to get skilled players to suit the needs of the offense, but not necessarily the obviously highly skilled, highly drafted player.

This creates more depth. If the Titans do all sorts of screwing around with their offense to feature Vince Young and he gets hurt, they are more screwed depthwise than if they had more interchangeable QBs.

aj.
06-12-2006, 07:54 AM
And Denver is not alone in terms of drafting to suit their systems. Some teams have to do it that way because the opportunity to draft a 'star' player comes once in a blue moon. Chicken or egg.

DocBar
06-12-2006, 09:13 AM
And Denver is not alone in terms of drafting to suit their systems. Some teams have to do it that way because the opportunity to draft a 'star' player comes once in a blue moon. Chicken or egg.
I gotta go with egg on that one. LOL Here's to being compared favorably to the Denver offense. Beats the hell outta being compared to Detroits.

aj.
06-12-2006, 12:32 PM
Funny you mention Detroit (I know - historically) but they should have a pretty good O this year with the mad professor in charge.

Only time will tell if our O will compare favorably with Denver's. There's no reason it shouldn't and I feel a change for the better is upon us, but my optimism is still highly guarded - even though when I see Moulds and Putz running around out there I know everything should be much better.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-12-2006, 01:15 PM
Is it.... well, normal for somebody which most obviously defines themselves as a fan supporting another team to spend so much time on a future opponent's site?

Just asking... or is the world just too bi-polar for someone that lives in Texas, supports the Texans and goes to the home games?

Corrosion
06-12-2006, 01:38 PM
No player made the team before strictly as a returner. Mathis was at WR at times, and was listed as one as well. Moses was a WR also, and saw a good deal of playing time. Buchanon is a starting CB. Davis is our starting RB. Capers never kept anyone who would be strictly a return man.


I sure dont remember JJ Moses lining up at reciever very often ..... If at all . He had a grand total of ZERO receptions in two seasons as a Texan . Moses may have been listed as a WR but he made the team strictly as a KR/PR .

In Greenbay and Arizona (his teams prior to and after the Texans) he also has ZERO receptions.


http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/236851