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BamaTexan
06-06-2006, 02:21 PM
As one of the newest Texan fans, I bring a question to the board to get more knowledge of the current starting QB. What is his biggest weakness or area that needs the most improvement? Limited mobility or his arm strength, etc?

BT

Vinny
06-06-2006, 02:23 PM
He has no physical weaknesses. What he lacks is instinct, feel for the game and ability to perform under pressure. There is nothing he can't do physically. This is a big year for him (my Mr Obvious statement).

Brandon420tx
06-06-2006, 02:25 PM
As one of the newest Texan fans, I bring a question to the board to get more knowledge of the current starting QB. What is his biggest weakness or area that needs the most improvement? Limited mobility or his arm strength, etc?

BT
Oh dear god, you couldn't just look around for old threads and read them?, now all the Carr arguements will start up again, and we already have enough problems with a 1-man troll invasion on the forum. This could end us!

If you want some dirt on the Carr, goto the Texans website and click rosters then on David and any other players you would like to learn about, or as I suggested earlier go find previous threads about the subject, (The search option is pretty useful)

hollywood_texan
06-06-2006, 02:25 PM
He has no physical weaknesses. What he lacks is instinct, feel for the game and ability to perform under pressure. There is nothing he can't do physically. This is a big year for him (my Mr Obvious statement).


Vinny, totally agree with you.

But, do we need another thread on this?

It's getting old.

Vinny
06-06-2006, 02:28 PM
But, do we need another thread on this?

It's getting old.
I hate to see these new threads pop up when you can get into any number of Carr-opinion threads if you just use the search function or just browse a bit...but I'm kind of numb to the whole thing sometimes during the off-season.

BamaTexan
06-06-2006, 02:30 PM
Forget the post if this has been covered 1,000,000 times...

Vinny
06-06-2006, 02:32 PM
Forget the post if this has been covered 1,000,000 times...
It's really not a huge deal...but when you start a thread that has been covered many times, the regulars have to re-state their opinion over and over and the newer people could really just find this opinion if you take some time to look around a bit. Just kind of a mb etiquette thing.

Brandon420tx
06-06-2006, 02:33 PM
Forget the post if this has been covered 1,000,000 times...
No biggie.:ok: Hope the stuff we gave you was of help, and you can do your own research and form an opinion of David and the other players.

hollywood_texan
06-06-2006, 02:34 PM
Forget the post if this has been covered 1,000,000 times...

Sorry Bro, it looks like your new around here.

A lot of words, time, and effort has been posted about this topic. Frankly, I think both sides are tired of it.

Nothing personal to you though, welcome to the board and looking to see you around.

santo
06-06-2006, 02:34 PM
As one of the newest Texan fans, I bring a question to the board to get more knowledge of the current starting QB. What is his biggest weakness or area that needs the most improvement? Limited mobility or his arm strength, etc?

BT


http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=23620

Just go to this thread this is where you'll get most of the info

BamaTexan
06-06-2006, 02:36 PM
For the information and links. Sorry to bring Hoffa back to life.

Double Barrel
06-06-2006, 02:46 PM
He has no physical weaknesses. What he lacks is instinct, feel for the game and ability to perform under pressure. There is nothing he can't do physically. This is a big year for him (my Mr Obvious statement).

Just curious, V, what you think of his delivery. He seems to have that 'side winder' thing going, which was something the coaches tried to change early in his career (with no success).

I've always read that a side delivery is tough in the NFL due to the massive size of linemen. Is this considered a 'physical weakness', or more of a mechanics issue?

Not trying to stir debate about Carr, but instead trying to offer real analysis of our starting QB. (hope people can do the same)

TEXANRED
06-06-2006, 02:48 PM
Oh dear god
Took the words right out of my mouth.

But to show respect and a warm welcome I will share my opinion on Carr.

Strenghts: Big, strong, agile, accurate, can scramble and is a competitor, has tremendous charector to survive 18-46 in four years and getting sacked close to 200 times in the same span. Not to mention having Pendry, Palmer, and Capers as your coachs.

Weekness: Hits the panic button to quick (can't say I blame him), stares down his receiver, and the most annoying thing one human being can do with a football, run out of bounds with the football. Oh my God.

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell.

Vinny
06-06-2006, 02:49 PM
Just curious, V, what you think of his delivery. He seems to have that 'side winder' thing going, which was something the coaches tried to change early in his career (with no success).

I've always read that a side delivery is tough in the NFL due to the massive size of linemen. Is this considered a 'physical weakness', or more of a mechanics issue?

Not trying to stir debate about Carr, but instead trying to offer real analysis of our starting QB. (hope people can do the same)
I don't have any issues with his delivery, except that it's probably tough to have touch on a ball when thrown like this. I find it easier to put air under a ball when I come over the top and tougher to do when I start to angle down to side arm. QB's throw in 'lanes' most of the time and really don't pass over the top of guys too much, so I don't think its too big a deal.

Hervoyel
06-06-2006, 02:58 PM
I don't have any issues with his delivery, except that it's probably tough to have touch on a ball when thrown like this. I find it easier to put air under a ball when I come over the top and tougher to do when I start to angle down to side arm. QB's throw in 'lanes' most of the time and really don't pass over the top of guys too much, so I don't think its too big a deal.

He hasn't completely demonstrated to us that he "can play" but I feel like if he can do that and does it throwing sidearm then fine by me. I'd rather have a guy who's a player with less than flawless mechanics than a guy who throws textbook but can't win games. That's what 2006 is to me when it comes to watching David Carr. I want to see growth and I want to see (towards the second half of the season) this franchise QB that we've all seen little glimpses of come to the surface.

If the man can start winning games there won't be much talk about his throwing motion IMO. I hope it turns out that way.

hollywood_texan
06-06-2006, 03:02 PM
Just curious, V, what you think of his delivery. He seems to have that 'side winder' thing going, which was something the coaches tried to change early in his career (with no success).

I've always read that a side delivery is tough in the NFL due to the massive size of linemen. Is this considered a 'physical weakness', or more of a mechanics issue?

Not trying to stir debate about Carr, but instead trying to offer real analysis of our starting QB. (hope people can do the same)

The side arm delivery isn't an issue if you are 6'-5", a native of Houston, Texas, and carried your team to the college national championship.

powerfuldragon
06-06-2006, 03:06 PM
The side arm delivery isn't an issue if you are 6'-5", a native of Houston, Texas, and carried your team to the college national championship.

:homer:

El Tejano
06-06-2006, 03:09 PM
Personally, I know sometimes I add another thread if I have one specific question that I need answered quickly. Sometimes I do it out of courtesy for someone who started a thread and to keep my semi off topic question out of that thread.

Texans>Colts
06-06-2006, 03:26 PM
He needs to learn how to get away from defenders, until we get a good o-line

real
06-06-2006, 03:29 PM
He needs to learn how to get away from defenders, until we get a good o-line

You don't think we've upgraded this off season ?

Texans>Colts
06-06-2006, 03:32 PM
You don't think we've upgraded this off season ?

We've upgraded and i'm happy about that but it is nowhere near to being good

Hulk75
06-06-2006, 03:35 PM
He has no physical weaknesses. What he lacks is instinct, feel for the game and ability to perform under pressure. There is nothing he can't do physically. This is a big year for him (my Mr Obvious statement).
Could not disagree more...........Here are just some things he did under preasure.

Jax-Great throw nice drop Corey, could have won.
Bal-Great throw nice drop Dre, could have won.
KC-Stayed in the pocket and delivered a ball, and the guy took it 40 or so yards which set up the game winner. Beat KC in KC, hardest place to play in the NFL, walked out with a win.
Jax @ home- Nice dive over the pile, for the game winner
Arz @ home- Coaches put the game in his hands(for the first time ever) for the first half, call what ever he wanted to, 24 points in one half, most in Texan history.
Vikings- Came back and throw how many TDs and almost wins the game, thanks D.
Rams- throws how many TDs, and then thanks D, way to give up a BOMB in cover 99 to get it into over time.
Pittsburg @ home- QB rating was one of the best against there D that year.
Cowboys- First Drive TD, wins his first game as a pro.
Falcons @ home- Comes in HURT and takes off for a 30 yard gain, we win.
Dom Capers and Chris Palmer----Predictable Offense, one of the most Obvouis I have ever seen, last 4 years could have been A LOT worse , one of the worst OLines in the league for the last 4 years still standing.

At Lakewood on Sunday, the power to all the music and instuments turned off, but the ladie and the choir kept singing, never stopped, did there best. I know she can sing she is won of the best I have heard, but nobody could hear her.............So I thought later on that day, thats what it might seem like to be doing your best and do to the fact of things around you you can not be heard..........

I think Carr has been trying and doing his best, NOW that he has the people around him I think he will do great things.
Just look at Dunta Robinson, the guy does not have a pass rush in front of him and look how many INTS he had.

real
06-06-2006, 03:37 PM
We've upgraded and i'm happy about that but it is nowhere near to being good

Thats a first...I thought most were content with our line as of now...In my opinion I don't think the line will be an issue this season...I think they will be pretty solid once the mesh..

Double Barrel
06-06-2006, 03:45 PM
I don't have any issues with his delivery, except that it's probably tough to have touch on a ball when thrown like this. I find it easier to put air under a ball when I come over the top and tougher to do when I start to angle down to side arm. QB's throw in 'lanes' most of the time and really don't pass over the top of guys too much, so I don't think its too big a deal.

Thanks for the answer, man. I remember the first (or second?) season where they had some crazy passing drill using ladders to make Carr pass overhand. The story seemed to indicate that the coaches had an issue with his mechanics, but I don't hear much about it these days.

I remember that particular season it became a non-issue when he was getting sacked so many times. The reasoning became survival at that point, and his throwing instincts reverted back to what is natural to him.

Vinny
06-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Could not disagree more...........Here are just some things he did under preasure.

Jax-Great throw nice drop Corey, could have won.
Bal-Great throw nice drop Dre, could have won.
KC-Stayed in the pocket and delivered a ball, and the guy took it 40 or so yards which set up the game winner. Beat KC in KC, hardest place to play in the NFL, walked out with a win.
Jax @ home- Nice dive over the pile, for the game winner
Arz @ home- Coaches put the game in his hands(for the first time ever) for the first half, call what ever he wanted to, 24 points in one half, most in Texan history.
Vikings- Came back and throw how many TDs and almost wins the game, thanks D.
Rams- throws how many TDs, and then thanks D, way to give up a BOMB in cover 99 to get it into over time.
Pittsburg @ home- QB rating was one of the best against there D that year.
Cowboys- First Drive TD, wins his first game as a pro.
Falcons @ home- Comes in HURT and takes off for a 30 yard gain, we win.
Dom Capers and Chris Palmer----Predictable Offense, one of the most Obvouis I have ever seen, last 4 years could have been A LOT worse , one of the worst OLines in the league for the last 4 years still standing.

That's all fine and dandy, but the best statistical performance (combined passing TD's and passing yards both) in a victory (ie putting the team on his back) is 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts.

FSUBulldog
06-06-2006, 04:05 PM
Vinny:

I would agree with that assessment, but if all you're armed with is the three-step drop flanker screen or a quick slant, you're not going to put up big #'s. That fact always puts me at ease with YPG to date. I'm hoping that now starts to change due to a better o-line and a solid receiving corps.

SESupergenius
06-06-2006, 04:05 PM
That's all fine and dandy, but the best statistical performance (combined passing TD's and passing yards both) in a victory (ie putting the team on his back) is 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts.
His best day was 293 yards and 3 TD's last season againt the Rams, the loss was on the defense. That was better than any day Leftwich had last season as well.

Vinny
06-06-2006, 04:13 PM
His best day was 293 yards and 3 TD's last season againt the Rams, the loss was on the defense. That was better than any day Leftwich had last season as well.Well, he hasn't won any shoot-outs so his best game ever in a victory is still 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts. You would think a 1st overall pick could win one offensive 'shoot out' in 60 starts.

TEXANRED
06-06-2006, 04:29 PM
That's all fine and dandy, but the best statistical performance (combined passing TD's and passing yards both) in a victory (ie putting the team on his back) is 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts.
Now I know I have asked you this question before, how is it Carr's fault the defense can't hold a lead when he throws three hundred plus yards and three touchdowns?

Last I checked Carr wasent playing DB during any of those infamous fourth quarter collapses.

Crap, he we go. Thanks BamaTexan:)

TEXANRED
06-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Well, he hasn't won any shoot-outs so his best game ever in a victory is still 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts. You would think a 1st overall pick could win one offensive 'shoot out' in 60 starts.
Corey Bradford.

TexanFan881
06-06-2006, 04:45 PM
Well, he hasn't won any shoot-outs so his best game ever in a victory is still 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts. You would think a 1st overall pick could win one offensive 'shoot out' in 60 starts.

In order to be in a shootout both sides of the ball (offense and defense) have to perform, and it has to be a close game. It's not his fault that other offensive teams have ran all over our defense. When there aren't many 'shoot out' game opportunities he's not going to have that many 'shoot out' wins.

Vinny
06-06-2006, 04:46 PM
Now I know I have asked you this question before, how is it Carr's fault the defense can't hold a lead when he throws three hundred plus yards and three touchdowns?

Last I checked Carr wasent playing DB during any of those infamous fourth quarter collapses.

Crap, he we go. Thanks BamaTexan:)You can be the Carr apologist all you want but nobody fears the ball in Carr's hands at the end of any game. Hopefully that will change this year.

TexanFan881
06-06-2006, 04:48 PM
You can be the Carr apologist all you want but nobody fears the ball in Carr's hands at the end of any game.

That's because the games (especially last year) haven't been in a last game winning drive opportunity. When you have a huge lead why would anyone be worried about what the other team's QB does because it's not going to matter. We did win 7 games in '04, were none of those because of Carr?

Vinny
06-06-2006, 04:51 PM
That's because the games (especially last year) haven't been in a last game winning drive opportunity. When you have a huge lead why would anyone be worried about what the other team's QB does because it's not going to matter. We did win 7 games in '04, were none of those because of Carr?we have been in a ton of games in his 60 starts and he had a lot of opportunity to convert drives or take over games. It just hasn't happened much.

I never said Carr was not responsible for some our victories. I don't see things in all black or all white.

skillz24
06-06-2006, 04:52 PM
carr's arm strength is one of the best in the league, he is young and urable as he has proved over his first four seasons. his biggest problem has been inconsistent offensive line play.carr is a four season veteran that is going to need to be retaught like a rookie once kubiak fixes this line situation. this year i am not expecting a tremendous amount of change...if we win 6 games i think we off to a good start again.

hollywood_texan
06-06-2006, 04:55 PM
Carr is a Franchise Quarterback, which means you get all the all the glory and all the blame. That's the position and why he makes the coin.

If he doesn't get the blame, he shouldn't get any of the glory.

IMO, exceptional athletes put up good numbers despite the talent or position they are in.

I remember the Green Bay game two years ago on Sunday night, the defense held Brett Favre to 15 total points and lost on field at the end of the game. Carr and the offense couldn't get one first down in the fourth quarter. I am sure several other examples can be pointed out, so you take any so-called good examples and they can be offset by poor performances.

thunderkyss
06-06-2006, 04:56 PM
Forget the post if this has been covered 1,000,000 times...

I think it's a good question....... and anyone not wanting to participate can opt not to.

Things change.... people change........ fans opinion change.......

I mean at least Bama didn't ask how David will wear his hair in '06.

Or worse, offer some speculation to magnify the passing on a particular QB in the '05 draft.

TEXANRED
06-06-2006, 05:00 PM
Carr is a Franchise Quarterback, which means you get all the all the glory and all the blame. That's the position and why he makes the coin.

If he doesn't get the blame, he shouldn't get any of the glory.

IMO, exceptional athletes put up good numbers despite the talent or position they are in.

I remember the Green Bay game two years ago on Sunday night, the defense held Brett Favre to 15 total points and lost on field at the end of the game. Carr and the offense couldn't get one first down in the fourth quarter. I am sure several other examples can be pointed out.
If there is one thing you can say about Carr that we should all be able to agree on, Carr doesnt run to the media and point fingers. He always accepts the blame.

hollywood_texan
06-06-2006, 05:02 PM
I think it's a good question....... and anyone not wanting to participate can opt not to.

Things change.... people change........ fans opinion change.......

I mean at least Bama didn't ask how David will wear his hair in '06.

Or worse, offer some speculation to magnify the passing on a particular QB in the '05 draft.

Actually, I covered it for him:


Just curious, V, what you think of his delivery. He seems to have that 'side winder' thing going, which was something the coaches tried to change early in his career (with no success).

I've always read that a side delivery is tough in the NFL due to the massive size of linemen. Is this considered a 'physical weakness', or more of a mechanics issue?

Not trying to stir debate about Carr, but instead trying to offer real analysis of our starting QB. (hope people can do the same)


The side arm delivery isn't an issue if you are 6'-5", a native of Houston, Texas, and carried your team to the college national championship.

thunderkyss
06-06-2006, 05:03 PM
The side arm delivery isn't an issue if you are 6'-5", a native of Houston, Texas, and carried your team to the college national championship.

funny........ it seemed like that was the only occasion that it was an issue.

TwinSisters
06-06-2006, 05:05 PM
As one of the newest Texan fans, I bring a question to the board to get more knowledge of the current starting QB. What is his biggest weakness or area that needs the most improvement? Limited mobility or his arm strength, etc?

Strengths: good velocity and range, good control, tough body, can move it with his feet in a jam, good looking ( brings the ladies to the stadium and makes the alternative fans happy: See People magazine and Outsports ), Dan Reeves didn't call him a chump ( this says a lot )
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3520790.html

Weakness: doesn't gamble, too much of a yes man, holds on to the ball too long because of this, cannot beat you every down with his feet. Was drafted #1 overall and cannot afford to be just good ( or actually the team cannot afford for him to be just good ), carries Kerry Collins stigma

Using Bama speak:
Part of what made Namath and Stabler great QBs, as opposed to just good QBs, is that they challenged Bear Bryant. Where coaches tend to be conservative, they were not, and thus pushed from good to greatness.

Carr needs to work on pushing his yes-o-meter rating further away from Danny White, but not as far as Jeff George/Steve Spurrier. He will lose playing it safe and he will lose if a gamble doesn't pay off, therefore you must gamble if you are going to win and improve.

Lucky
06-06-2006, 05:23 PM
For the information and links. Sorry to bring Hoffa back to life.
Don't sweat it. There's an unwritten rule here that there must be at least one David Carr thread on the front page. You just met the quota, that's all.

You know the best thing you have going for you as a new Texan fan? You can judge this team on how they play in the future and not concern yourself with the past. There have been some great moments in Texans history, but there have been many, many heartbreaks. I think the Texans are about to turn that around, and I congratulate you on your good fortune of being here when they do. Oh, and Roll Tide. Or War Eagle, as the case may be.

Hulk75
06-06-2006, 06:07 PM
That's all fine and dandy, but the best statistical performance (combined passing TD's and passing yards both) in a victory (ie putting the team on his back) is 2TD's and 201 passing in 60 NFL starts.
Stats...........got to love them, I doubt that stat really worries the coaching staff right now.
Put the team on his back?, do you think that saying has to do with the Offense that is being ran at all?
Tom Brady,Peyton Manning, Brett Favre- I am sure these guys had some good plays being called and some good guys CATCHING the FOOTBALL.

Luckly all that stuff is done and gone with, this is going to be a great NEW season.

DominickDavisFan76
06-06-2006, 08:49 PM
Since everyone is giving their opinion on this old thread I figure...why not?

well I think he could become a pro bowler, if he gets more time in the pocket.
He can do everything physically, its just his mind is always on.....running out of bounds for a 2 yard gain...jk He just needs a better o-line. I mean come on sacked almost 200 times in 5 years. (INSANE)

HomeBred_Texan
06-06-2006, 09:25 PM
I am a David Carr fan for sure. His downside is he is always on his downside. Way too many sacks in his young career. We should see a steady improvement for Mr. Carr in the years to come...:bananasplit:

BamaTexan
06-06-2006, 09:58 PM
Lucky, its ALWAYS Roll Tide and Twin Sister, thanks for the "Bama Speak". I completely understand now.

It will be fun again to judge new players and coaching staff. I'm familiar with a few coaches and players already. I appreciate the constructive analysis of my post from all angles. Good information on Carr.

BT

thetexanator
06-06-2006, 10:02 PM
just caught the thread, BUT id have to say carr's biggest weakness is between his ears.

mapleleaf
06-06-2006, 10:03 PM
David Carr = Car Wreck.

That's all I have to say. There's plenty more, but I can't think of any right now.

CajunTexan
06-06-2006, 10:24 PM
Lucky, its ALWAYS Roll Tide and Twin Sister, thanks for the "Bama Speak". I completely understand now.

It will be fun again to judge new players and coaching staff. I'm familiar with a few coaches and players already. I appreciate the constructive analysis of my post from all angles. Good information on Carr.

BT

Welcome BamaTexan...as Vinny (Capt. Obvious) stated earlier this is a big year for Carr. Although he and the team are learning a new offense, I really expect to see big improvement. I think one of the reasons Kubes et al stuck with Carr is the 4 years of experience whether good bad or otherwise.

IMO, what people see as his upside or potential is a Farve/Elway type of QB. That is a heavy burden/expectation to fullfill, but I believe he will.

Oh...by the way...GEAUXXXXXX TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!

Hulk75
06-06-2006, 11:04 PM
just caught the thread, BUT id have to say carr's biggest weakness is between his ears.
"You don't really know a guy until he faces some adversity," he said. "Until he gets hit between the teeth or has a tough one on Sunday, you don't really know. The fact that he has hung in there for four years ought to tell you something. There's nothing tentative in him."
Not really.........Quote from his QB coach that knows more about Carr then Some.
You know what you probably are right he is going to have to UN-Learn the crap that was stuck in his ears the last couple of years.

TheOgre
06-07-2006, 09:17 AM
Here is the game I thought was going to be Carr's coming out party:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores104/104284/20041010NFL--HOUSTON---0nr.htm

Yes they lost the game, but he was incredible in the 4th quarter. It turned out to be a "false positive". I want this guy to succeed, but will he?

Runner
06-07-2006, 09:18 AM
he is going to have to UN-Learn the crap that was stuck in his ears the last couple of years.

I imagine Carr's not the only one that has to purge what he's been taught previously. It's good we're moving forward.

real
06-07-2006, 09:31 AM
I have dis-liked Carr from the beggining. I always felt we should have went with JP with that pick...but having said that, I do believe that he will be brilliant in kubes system...He's mobile, has a rocket arm and he has some wits about his self...The only thing that concerns me about Carr is that I don't think he has a winners attitude...If we were down in the fourth I wouldn't expect Carr to win it for us...

Texans Horror
06-07-2006, 09:45 AM
Reviewing the 2002 draft, it seems obvious we were pulling for offensive potential: Carr, Gaffney, and Pitts. WIth all three still playing for the Texans, I will assume these were pretty decent moves. Besides, there were a lot of busts that year. Mike Williams, Joey Harrington, and to some extent, P-Buc (given up by Raiders, but still has a shot at redeeming himself in Houston so long as he doesn't miss tackles). Like most players from the previous regime, this will be a big make-or-break year for them. It is interesting to think that four years later our first two picks are defensive, rather than offensive, players.

real
06-07-2006, 09:56 AM
Reviewing the 2002 draft, it seems obvious we were pulling for offensive potential: Carr, Gaffney, and Pitts. WIth all three still playing for the Texans, I will assume these were pretty decent moves. Besides, there were a lot of busts that year. Mike Williams, Joey Harrington, and to some extent, P-Buc (given up by Raiders, but still has a shot at redeeming himself in Houston so long as he doesn't miss tackles). Like most players from the previous regime, this will be a big make-or-break year for them. It is interesting to think that four years later our first two picks are defensive, rather than offensive, players.

Gaffney is gone...:ok: :ok:

Texans Horror
06-07-2006, 10:12 AM
Gaffney is gone...:ok: :ok:

Whoops! That's right. He's an Eagle now. I posted that one before I got enough caffeine in me...

Added: I still think we made some good moves and avoided some potential busts.

Hulk75
06-07-2006, 10:23 AM
I have dis-liked Carr from the beggining. I always felt we should have went with JP with that pick...but having said that, I do believe that he will be brilliant in kubes system...He's mobile, has a rocket arm and he has some wits about his self...The only thing that concerns me about Carr is that I don't think he has a winners attitude...If we were down in the fourth I wouldn't expect Carr to win it for us...
I imagine what would happen if he had a losers attitude...............

He would probably throw people under the bus, when the oppertunity came up.
He would probably be on a new team.
He would probably be sitting at home on work out days geting fat.
Bob McNair probably would have not given a guy with a losers attitude another 3 years here.

Come on man you dont really believe that Carr does not have a winners attitude, when have you ever seen him quit trying to win a ball game.

Hulk75
06-07-2006, 10:25 AM
I imagine Carr's not the only one that has to purge what he's been taught previously. It's good we're moving forward.
NO NO your right we were just talking about Carr, your right all these guys have to un-learn some stuff.

Runner
06-07-2006, 10:34 AM
NO NO your right we were just talking about Carr, your right all these guys have to un-learn some stuff.

I know - I was just broadening the (good) point you made to further discussion.

real
06-07-2006, 10:47 AM
I imagine what would happen if he had a losers attitude...............

He would probably throw people under the bus, when the oppertunity came up.
He would probably be on a new team.
He would probably be sitting at home on work out days geting fat.
Bob McNair probably would have not given a guy with a losers attitude another 3 years here.

Come on man you dont really believe that Carr does not have a winners attitude, when have you ever seen him quit trying to win a ball game.

You are right...But i never said he had a losers attitude...I think I explained myself pretty well...I think we can win with carr, but i don't think Carr will win it for us...But instead of winners attitude, I should've said killer instinct...I just haven't seen anything outta Carr that would lead me to believe that he can put the team on his shoulders and lead us to victory when we really need it...In fact i'll put it like this...If DC flops there won't be many people that are shocked or amazed...and I think mr. mcnair would agree...I heard him on 610 this morning saying that this season he would like to see DC take on more leadership, and accountability...I took that to mean he hasn't shown us thus far, but we all know how bad the situation was last yr. so lets give him a chance....but best believe that if he doesn't show up he probably won't make it outta this season as the texans starter...

Double Barrel
06-07-2006, 10:54 AM
Hate to say it, but ALL of our players had a losing attitude in 2005.

2-14 is a testament to that fact.

TheOgre
06-07-2006, 10:58 AM
I think Kris Brown gets the losing attitude team award though. He made sure we got the first overall selection.

jerek
06-07-2006, 11:42 AM
And the David Carr universe spins on ... another four pages of Houston's hottest blame game.

Oh, and welcome to the MB, BamaTex. I think it was Lucky that said it ... no hard feelings, you're just filling the quota. Either way, hope you enjoy it here and welcome.

WildBlackBear32
06-07-2006, 12:33 PM
I think Kris Brown gets the losing attitude team award though. He made sure we got the first overall selection.

That was the BEST play in franchise history. :whip:

phil2366
06-07-2006, 12:52 PM
As one of the newest Texan fans, I bring a question to the board to get more knowledge of the current starting QB. What is his biggest weakness or area that needs the most improvement? Limited mobility or his arm strength, etc?

BT

Welcome BamaTexan and it looks like all these yahoos were not quiet as tired of this topic as they said they were huh? :ok: . To put it in a way you might understand it best it is a lot like the coach Joe Kines issue at the Capstone. 2 years ago people were on one side or the other and they defended their side to the death. Thank God Coach Shula just let it play out and we have one of the best defenses in the nation once again. Speaking of....I would guess DeMeco is the person responsable for you coming over to learn about the Texans huh? We are very proud to have him. Welcome, and Roll Tide.

Lucky
06-07-2006, 01:27 PM
That was the BEST play in franchise history. :whip:
Was it? Had the Texans won that game, the Saints would have drafted 1st and the Texans 2nd. Bush would still be in New Orleans, and Mario would still be here. Not that big of a deal, as it turns out.

SESupergenius
06-07-2006, 01:29 PM
Was it? Had the Texans won that game, the Saints would have drafted 1st and the Texans 2nd. Bush would still be in New Orleans, and Mario would still be here. Not that big of a deal, as it turns out.
And Mario would have been ours for a lesser price tag. GOOD JOB CASSERLY! (yes, everything is his fault)

WildBlackBear32
06-07-2006, 01:34 PM
Bush would still be in New Orleans, and Mario would still be here.

Who is to say that? At least 5 teams supposedly had Williams #1 on their board. Who is to say one of those 5 wouldn't have traded up? Who is to say Williams wasnt #1 on the Saints board??

Vinny
06-07-2006, 01:34 PM
Was it? Had the Texans won that game, the Saints would have drafted 1st and the Texans 2nd. Bush would still be in New Orleans, and Mario would still be here. Not that big of a deal, as it turns out.I thought we would have slipped further back than 2 if we won that game. :um:

WildBlackBear32
06-07-2006, 01:35 PM
I thought we would have slipped further back than 2 if we won that game. :um:

I thought it was 3, with the Titans going #2...

TheOgre
06-07-2006, 01:43 PM
I thought we would have slipped further back than 2 if we won that game. :um:

The Saints, Texans, and 49ers would have all been the only 3-13 teams.

1. New Orleans
2. Texans
3. 49ers

Remember that the Packers, Jets and 49ers won the last week of the season. That is how the Titans moved up to #3.

WildBlackBear32
06-07-2006, 01:48 PM
The Saints, Texans, and 49ers would have all been the only 3-13 teams.

1. New Orleans
2. Texans
3. 49ers

Remember that the Packers, Jets and 49ers won the last week of the season. That is how the Titans moved up to #3.

No, the Titans finished 4-12, minus one win, they would have been 3-13. The order was going to be Saints, Titans, Texans, 9ers.

jerek
06-07-2006, 01:55 PM
Was it? Had the Texans won that game, the Saints would have drafted 1st and the Texans 2nd. Bush would still be in New Orleans, and Mario would still be here. Not that big of a deal, as it turns out.

For about 10M cheaper, at that. But wait, I thought we would have ended up drafting fourth.

Edit: That's what I get for posting without reading subsequent posts.

TheOgre
06-07-2006, 02:04 PM
No, the Titans finished 4-12, minus one win, they would have been 3-13. The order was going to be Saints, Titans, Texans, 9ers.

Who said anything about the Titans getting one less win? All we were talking about was if the 49ers had lost to the Texans the last game of the year. If that happened, then the order would have been what I posted. The Titans would have drafted #4.

WildBlackBear32
06-07-2006, 02:09 PM
Who said anything about the Titans getting one less win? All we were talking about was if the 49ers had lost to the Texans the last game of the year. If that happened, then the order would have been what I posted. The Titans would have drafted #4.

Oh...I thought we were talking about the Titans game, given that was when Brown's kick took place...

Lucky
06-07-2006, 02:29 PM
Oh...I thought we were talking about the Titans game, given that was when Brown's kick took place...
I was, though Brown did miss a chippy in the 49er game.

And you're right in that the Texans would have drafted 3rd had they defeated the Titans on the road. But that FG would have only forced OT. They still would have had another chance at blowing that game. But the draft order would have been:

1. Saints (They say they would have taken Bush, had Hawk #2 on their board)
2. Titans (Bud would have made then take Vince)
3. Texans (Still get Super Mario)

Now if the Texans had defeated both the Titans and the Niners, they would have drafted 4th. Then the Niners at #3 probably would have taken Mario. And the Texans would have been "stuck" with D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

thunderkyss
06-07-2006, 07:32 PM
Reviewing the 2002 draft, it seems obvious we were pulling for offensive potential: Carr, Gaffney, and Pitts. WIth all three still playing for the Texans, I will assume these were pretty decent moves. Besides, there were a lot of busts that year. Mike Williams, Joey Harrington, and to some extent, P-Buc (given up by Raiders, but still has a shot at redeeming himself in Houston so long as he doesn't miss tackles). Like most players from the previous regime, this will be a big make-or-break year for them. It is interesting to think that four years later our first two picks are defensive, rather than offensive, players.

Nope........

You can't call Harrington a Bust, and not call Carr a bust.....

& I'm sure someone's informed you that Gaffney is gone......... I'd be mad as heck, if we didn't pick up Moulds.... I liked Gaff.........

And the David Carr universe spins on ... another four pages of Houston's hottest blame game.

Oh, and welcome to the MB, BamaTex. I think it was Lucky that said it ... no hard feelings, you're just filling the quota. Either way, hope you enjoy it here and welcome.

get over it.... nobody is blaming Carr for anything. He played like as..s Pitts did as well. so did McKinney, Bradford, Coleman, Buchannon, Wiegart, & Faggins.....

Why don't you stick up for one of those guys everynow and then??

thunderkyss
06-07-2006, 07:36 PM
And Mario would have been ours for a lesser price tag. GOOD JOB CASSERLY! (yes, everything is his fault)
You're Crazy...... N.O. would have done the same thing as us, and picked Mario. we'd have had to take D'Brick......

thunderkyss
06-07-2006, 07:42 PM
1. Saints (They say they would have taken Bush, had Hawk #2 on their board)


They said no such thing.... one of their fans said that crap to put a thorn in our sides... there's no way AJ would have gone #2......

And don't forget..... "eeeeeeeeverybody" here thought we had Reggie #1 on our board, and I garuntee you we never seriously considered him playing in HOuston.... sign him cheap, get the deal done, then trade him...... that was the only way we were going to get any value out of him.

and then nooooooobody was considering Vince in the top 10.

Yet..... some folks still predict stuff, like they know what they are talking about.

bayoudreamn
06-07-2006, 07:59 PM
Reviewing the 2002 draft, it seems obvious we were pulling for offensive potential: Carr, Gaffney, and Pitts. WIth all three still playing for the Texans, I will assume these were pretty decent moves. Besides, there were a lot of busts that year. Mike Williams, Joey Harrington, and to some extent, P-Buc (given up by Raiders, but still has a shot at redeeming himself in Houston so long as he doesn't miss tackles). Like most players from the previous regime, this will be a big make-or-break year for them. It is interesting to think that four years later our first two picks are defensive, rather than offensive, players.

Kubes was full of praise for P-Buc on the Texans news on this site today. I haven't been a p-buc fan since the first game he played here but if Kubes praise is deserved I think we can all stand to step back and keep an open mind about all of 'em.

Lucky
06-08-2006, 12:26 AM
They said no such thing.... one of their fans said that crap to put a thorn in our sides... there's no way AJ would have gone #2......
No, that was a report from Gary Myers of the the New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/421506p-355856c.html).

The Texans shook up the draft when they passed on Reggie Bush. But if they had taken him, then the Saints were going to shake things up at No. 2. They planned to take Ohio State LB A.J. Hawk over D’Brickashaw Ferguson or Mario Williams. New Orleans wanted to trade down a few spots to get Hawk, but if the Saints couldn’t make a deal, they were just going to take him at No. 2. The Titans still would have taken Vince Young, meaning the Jets would have had their choice of Ferguson or Williams.

thunderkyss
06-08-2006, 09:25 AM
IT's still speculation. There's no way to know now....

I still find that hard to believe. Of course if I were a New Orleans insider, and I was asked..... of course I would say that I wasn't going to pick Mario(even though I had every intention to. Don't want another team knowing I got one upped). Heck, I could say I was going to pick Darnell Bing, doesn't make it true.

BamaTexan
06-08-2006, 10:23 AM
I'm a big Demeco Ryans fan. But TE/FB Patrick Hape is the reason I'm a Texans fan.

BT

WildBlackBear32
06-08-2006, 11:25 AM
IT's still speculation. There's no way to know now....

I still find that hard to believe. Of course if I were a New Orleans insider, and I was asked..... of course I would say that I wasn't going to pick Mario(even though I had every intention to. Don't want another team knowing I got one upped). Heck, I could say I was going to pick Darnell Bing, doesn't make it true.

Indeed, deception is a fun thing about front office work.

SESupergenius
06-08-2006, 03:48 PM
You're Crazy...... N.O. would have done the same thing as us, and picked Mario. we'd have had to take D'Brick......I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.:shoot:

newbiefan
06-08-2006, 03:51 PM
I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.

haha, alright - world hunger

real
06-08-2006, 03:53 PM
I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.:shoot:

Poverty.....

santo
06-08-2006, 03:55 PM
Poverty.....
evil....

santo
06-08-2006, 03:56 PM
I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.:shoot:


evil....

real
06-08-2006, 04:08 PM
evil....

???? I don't get it ????

thunderkyss
06-08-2006, 11:17 PM
I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.:shoot:

Michael Jackson's nose........

Kaiser Toro
06-08-2006, 11:21 PM
I was being facetious. Not everything is Casserly's fault, but it's just too easy to slap every blame on him. Name me something wrong with anything in the world and I will 6 degree it back to Casserly.:shoot:

$7 beers

SESupergenius
06-08-2006, 11:55 PM
ok that is just way too many requests, maybe I'll take just one, but geez you swear I get paid for this!:superman: I spend enough of my supergenious capabilities on you clowns already.

SESupergenius
06-09-2006, 12:26 AM
$7 beers
Oh that's way too easy.

1. $7 beers were implemented by the Concessions department at Reliant Park

2. Reliant Park is the current office of Marilan Logan

3. Marilan Logan reported to Bob McNair that the Texans were losing stadium revenue.

4. Bob McNair hired Charley Casserly


Did it in 4!