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bckey
06-05-2006, 01:11 PM
Looked through the threads here and didn't see this posted yet. Capers is doing a little whining. In the end though he just didn't produce a winning product.


CAPERS CHAGRINED BY KUBIAK'S SITUATION

In response to the news that Rick Smith will become the new G.M. of the Houston Texans, we're hearing that former Texans coach Dom Capers is lamenting the fact that his successor, Gary Kubiak, got to pick his own personnel guy.

Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.

In our view, it's hard to feel bad for a guy who finished up his fourth season on the job by winning only two games, regardless of whether the G.M. was Casserly or Ron Wolf or Fran Foley. Capers had four full years to prove his worth, and in the end his performance helped to seal his fate.

Moreover, if Capers didn't like the direction of the personnel department, he should have forced the issue with owner Bob McNair, as more and more coaches have done over the past decade.

With that said, we can understand why Capers is feeling a little frustrated. Kubiak is getting far more juice as an unproven commodity than Capers received when he arrived four years ago with a solid and diverse resume. Capers took the expansion Panthers to the NFC title game in only their second season, and he enjoyed plenty of success as a defensive coordinator before and after his stint in Carolina. Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.

Moreover, the appearance that McNair ultimately created in Houston was that Capers alone took the fall for the team's poor performance in its first four years of existence. Apparently concerned with the possibility that he'd be labeled a buffoon for hiring both Capers and Casserly if he fired both of them at or about the same time, McNair dumped Capers and then carried Casserly through the draft, allowing him to "resign" in a manner that, on the surface, saved face both for the organization and for Casserly.

As far as we can tell, the ruse worked. Most of the references we now see to Casserly include a statement that he resigned the position of G.M. in order to pursue a job in the league office, which strongly implies that he'd still be the G.M. of the Texans if he really wanted to be.

Folks who follow the league closely know otherwise. Casserly was definitely out after the draft. The only remaining question was whether he'd walk before getting run.

So we can understand Capers' situation. A little bit. In the end, though, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who was in a position to improve his situation by better navigating the front-office politics in order to get the players he needed.

Or by winning more games with the ones that he had.


Comments?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 01:23 PM
Capers has only one winning season in eight years as an NFL head coach. That record speaks for itself, IMO. Simply put, Capers is probably a good defensive coordinator, but he's a lousy heach coach.

When a 7-9 team flops to 2-14, I can't blame the GM. The 2005 Texans came out flat and uninspired, not ready to play professional football. It's not the GM in the lockeroom motivating players and working out schemes, it's the friggin' head coach.

In addition, the HC decided to keep an offensive coordinator that was obviously a wrong fit for the team (hence firing said coordinator just two games into a new season). I blame the head coach for that debacle, not the GM.

And it is a widely held belief that Casserly only obtained the players that the coaches wanted, so the 2-14 team was a direct reflection of Capers' choices.

I don't have any animosity towards the old coach, but the last thing I want to hear is any whining or complaints from him. Move on, Capers, and keep doing what you're doing...as long as it's not on my team!

Hervoyel
06-05-2006, 01:31 PM
To begin with I don't think I've seen anyone who's opinion I consider worth anything speak badly of Capers since he was fired. There are always going to be those fans who are ready to lynch the coach or any assistant, player, or front office person they perceive to be "the problem" but those people don't know squat.

The opinions I'm seeing that matter (to me at least) are all fairly consistent in hanging the blame on Capers for not doing something about the coaches under him. He was in a bad marriage to Chris Palmer from the start and never held Vic Fangio accountable for putting the kind of defense that Capers was known for on the field. Then he brought in the clearly incompetent Joe Pendry to take "Palmer type" offensive picks and run a "Capers type" offense. Dom did not manage the people who worked for him and so he lost his job. End of story IMO.

If Kubiak does something with many of these same players then in my mind the case will be closed. Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.

bckey
06-05-2006, 01:35 PM
Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.


I think this statement sums up what the majority of the Texans fans think about Capers.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 01:39 PM
Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.


Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.

It's gonna be a long summer
---
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blown out every single game.

Tulip
06-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.

IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.

TEXANRED
06-05-2006, 01:44 PM
Capers may still have a job if he had the juice to be able to fire his friends. Pendry and Fangio single handedly cost him his job. (This being the second time Pendry has cost Capers his job, first being Carolina.)

Capers' stuborness to continue playing a 34 D with personel that never fit. Never being able to develop the players he had. Carr, Babin, TJ, Wand all whos careers are in damage control. Gaffney never developed and was let find work else were, and Wells can't find a job.

It was Capers who said we had to have Greenwood, Walker, Babin, Pbuc, Wade. That is alot of money between those five that are no better than second stringers on any decent team.

He started Corey Bradford :hunter:

He started Victor Riley over Wand and Pitts :hunter:

He continued to let McKinney play center when clearly he is a guard :hunter:
He lost the respect of his team in the very begining of last season. You could just tell. The very first play of the regular season Carr fumbles the football away to the Bills. The team quit on him b/c they knew Capers was unfitt to lead this team. Chris Brown shanks, and I am going to quote Shannon Sharp, "A 30 yard field goal 40 yards to the left." That is not like Chris Brown.

I will restate it, Capers didn't have the juice to fire his friends, make the tough decisions, and he started Victor Riley :hunter:

Long Baller
06-05-2006, 01:50 PM
The thing that bugged me the most about the Capers era was that we "NEVER" had a pass rush and that was his specialty. If he could not succeed at what he was best at how was he ever going to succeed at the areas where he was weakest....

ATX_Texan
06-05-2006, 02:05 PM
Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.

Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 02:14 PM
IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.

I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna. :D

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.

the wonger need food
06-05-2006, 02:25 PM
It's hard to feel sorry for multi-millionaire coaches... but here's guessing Bobo isn't far behind.

TexanFan881
06-05-2006, 02:25 PM
Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 02:41 PM
Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.

Which begs the question... who builds depth?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9033967

I think you under estimate the effect of injuries on a football club. There are things like turf toe, the occasional out for three weeks, and then there are things like having to start three different centers in one game.

Meloy
06-05-2006, 02:50 PM
Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed. "Ain't my fault. I didn't do it. Must have been that guy over there. No? Well ,what about that guy or maybe it was your fault. Mom, mom? Are you going to let that guy talk about me that way? It must be them 'cause it sure ain't my fault." Sheesh!

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 02:58 PM
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.

You're kiddin' me, right? :um:

The Texans never had a single lead in the first six games of the 2005 season. A record, I might add, that hasn't been touched since the NFL of the 1930's!!

No, we didn't get blown out every single game...hey, we won two! :ok:

SESupergenius
06-05-2006, 03:34 PM
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.

tsip
06-05-2006, 03:50 PM
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna. :D

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.

Every team in the NFL has to deal with injuries and player turnover and that is a constant every year. The Pats won a SB with over 40 different player combinations during the year, including a secondary so depleated that a WR was playing as a DB. As Belicek said once when asked about injuries, they are a 'given, difference is how you deal with them. We expect to win, We won't accept excuses.' Under Capers, there was no such philosophy and some fans still make excuses for the Texans under Capers.

AFD1717
06-05-2006, 04:06 PM
Capers' stuborness to continue playing a 34 D

For a second I thought we had stopped talking about football!

Corrosion
06-05-2006, 04:11 PM
In my opinion , Capers had lost this team a year before the collapse we witnessed last season . Anyone remember the remarks that got Jamie Sharper run out of town ? (not that it didnt turn out to be the right move to release him) .... "We need a leader" ..... But the team as a whole didnt believe in Capers brand of football . Capers didnt play to win games , he played not to lose them . That more than anything else led to the 2-14 mark they put up last season . :stirpot:

Marcus
06-05-2006, 04:20 PM
Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.

I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.

I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .

"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."

Well, that's informative.:rolleyes: But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.

There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.

powerfuldragon
06-05-2006, 04:21 PM
Patrick?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 04:25 PM
In my opinion , Capers had lost this team a year before the collapse we witnessed last season . Anyone remember the remarks that got Jamie Sharper run out of town ? (not that it didnt turn out to be the right move to release him) .... "We need a leader" ..... But the team as a whole didnt believe in Capers brand of football . Capers didnt play to win games , he played not to lose them . That more than anything else led to the 2-14 mark they put up last season . :stirpot:

You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.

Marcus
06-05-2006, 04:26 PM
Patrick?
Thanks!:shots:

Bobo
06-05-2006, 04:27 PM
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.

Ragone, a "bad" player? Gaffney a "bad" player? Bradford, a "bad" player? Wells, a "bad" player? Might wanna try to tell that to Cincy, Philly and Detroit! But then, of course, Sage Rosenfels isn't a "bad" player, is he? After all, a career completion pct. of less than 50% and throwing just as many INTs (6) as TDs -- well, that's pretty good, isn't it?

U4ikrob
06-05-2006, 04:46 PM
Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.


What he said.....

Bottom line philosophy of coaching wise Caper's allways preached to his players play not too loose. That it was "Lack of Execution" on the players parts as to why we lost. Unfortunately thats a horribly bad philosophy to have for a head coach. It might work ok as a D-coordinator, but Capers didnt even manage to do that right on this team in his 4 seasons as HC. In fact they had only 1 season in 4 we had a defense ranked above 20 in the league. IMO for a Head coach whos specialty is Defense thats completely UN-Acceptable. 4 years gratis of picking your players putting in your scheme and teaching and still have no results is just deplorable and speaks volumes about your abilities as a coach and is why Capers was fired.

Bottom line Capers style of coaching was not a good fit for this team.
Players in this league need to play to win - not to loose and that was an idea Capers never seems to get as a coach even now.

Essentially Capers and Casserley were given almost complete autonomous control of this franchise from the very start and we all know the results of those choices.

Casserly is a slick fish who can try to blame it all on Capers that he wants, but in the end Cass - He was the coach YOU picked to coach the team, that YOU picked to work with and build this franchise with and thus YOU are bottom line responsible for the choice you made to hire him and work with him.

IMO Mr. McNair played the classy card and tried to save some face by giving you a chance to help with the rebuilding, but make no mistake - There was not a chance in hell Charlie would not have been let go after the draft as it was obvious to almost everyone in the league including me, the blame lay squarely on the staff more than the players.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 05:04 PM
What he said.....

Bottom line philosophy of coaching wise Caper's allways preached to his players play not too loose. That it was "Lack of Execution" on the players parts as to why we lost. Unfortunately thats a horribly bad philosophy to have for a head coach. It might work ok as a D-coordinator, but Capers didnt even manage to do that right on this team in his 4 seasons as HC. In fact they had only 1 season in 4 we had a defense ranked above 20 in the league. IMO for a Head coach whos specialty is Defense thats completely UN-Acceptable. 4 years gratis of picking your players putting in your scheme and teaching and still have no results is just deplorable and speaks volumes about your abilities as a coach and is why Capers was fired.

Bottom line Capers style of coaching was not a good fit for this team.
Players in this league need to play to win - not to loose and that was an idea Capers never seems to get as a coach even now.

Essentially Capers and Casserley were given almost complete autonomous control of this franchise from the very start and we all know the results of those choices.

Casserly is a slick fish who can try to blame it all on Capers that he wants, but in the end Cass - He was the coach YOU picked to coach the team, that YOU picked to work with and build this franchise with and thus YOU are bottom line responsible for the choice you made to hire him and work with him.

IMO Mr. McNair played the classy card and tried to save some face by giving you a chance to help with the rebuilding, but make no mistake - There was not a chance in hell Charlie would not have been let go after the draft as it was obvious to almost everyone in the league including me, the blame lay squarely on the staff more than the players.

Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

powerfuldragon
06-05-2006, 05:07 PM
hey bobo, just why are you so negative?

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 05:31 PM
You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.

Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2005 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.

Ibar_Harry
06-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2006 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.

I think you mean 2005 was toast. I certainly hope 2006 isn't toast....

SESupergenius
06-05-2006, 05:37 PM
Ragone, a "bad" player? Gaffney a "bad" player? Bradford, a "bad" player? Wells, a "bad" player? Might wanna try to tell that to Cincy, Philly and Detroit! But then, of course, Sage Rosenfels isn't a "bad" player, is he? After all, a career completion pct. of less than 50% and throwing just as many INTs (6) as TDs -- well, that's pretty good, isn't it?
Lets see,
Bradford & Gaffney or Moulds & Walters? I'll take Kubiak picks.
Wells & Norris or Cook & A. Smith? Again, Kubiaks
Ragone & Banks or Rosenfels & Porter? tossup, because we know how awful Banks and Rosefels were. Ragone was let go for a reason.

Just because they were picked up by other teams doesn't equate to them being quality. I've only seen a couple of guys off the Texans that were quality throughout the years and most were pretty bad.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 05:38 PM
Please.

Do not mention that game ever again.

I know that is one of your Exhibit A's for how inspirational Capers was to his team. I have no idea why you think that way--because they were yelling and stuff coming out of the tunnel or something?? I can't fathom.

The second half of that game was non-remarkable.

It was dreadful.

I guess the best thing you could say about the first half to the second half of that game is that instead of the Texans getting their rearends handed to them, they merely got stomped into a mudhole.

Larry Johnson got some sort of record for rushing yards that game, IIRC.

I stayed until the very end. I could hear individual fans in the Bullpen from 50yards away.

Please. 2006 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it.

Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.

Why not mention it? Because it shoots to heck the assertion that Capers "lost the team?" The fact is, I was there for that game and you could tell -- if you were there, that is -- that this team DEFINITELY had NOT given up, nor had they given up on Capers. So what if the Texans didn't win the game? The point is that the team did NOT give up on Capers during that game or any other game. The phrase "gave up on the coach" is just a little expression everybody just loves to attach to someone who is having a rough year or got dismissed -- even if it doesn't fit. "The team gave up on him." Says who? Someone who gave up? I agree with you, though. With Kubiak at the helm. 2006 is toast. Stick a fork in it and turn the page. Maybe 2007 will be better. But I doubt it.

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 05:40 PM
You're opinion is wrong. You obviously didn't see how that team came out after halftime of the KC game last year.

Do you mean the game we lost 45-17? :um: Am I missing something?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 05:49 PM
Lets see,
Bradford & Gaffney or Moulds & Walters? I'll take Kubiak picks.
Wells & Norris or Cook & A. Smith? Again, Kubiaks
Ragone & Banks or Rosenfels & Porter? tossup, because we know how awful Banks and Rosefels were. Ragone was let go for a reason.

Just because they were picked up by other teams doesn't equate to them being quality. I've only seen a couple of guys off the Texans that were quality throughout the years and most were pretty bad.

Well, as I said, Martz would differ with you over Bradford. And I personally wouldn't like overpaid, old quitters on my team whose numbers in yards per pass are declining and has only caught 10 TDs in three games -- not to mention his "conduct detrimental to the team" suspension. And I do believe that Walters has, what is it -- 30 catches in 3 years with one TD? I do believe Gaffney and Bradford for that matter are much, much better than that. And you say you'd choose Kubiak's picks? Hmm!! And let's see -- you'd rather have Smith and Cook over Norris and Wells? I don't think too many people believe Cook is all that much of an improvement over Norris, if any. And if I were you, I'd look twice at the stats regarding Smith. He had just as many poor games as good ones with the Saints last year as a starter. And how many teams has he been with since he was drafted in the first round? Washed out with the Bills, washed out with the Pats, washed out with the Titans, washed out with the Saints. Doncha just love how Kubiak brings all these young, promising guys into Houston and suits them up? You might also want to look at what Wells did when he was called upon to start in place of Davis. He ran for 88 yards, caught 33 in receptions and scored two TDs, leading the team to one of its two wins last year. Now, you would take Kubiak's picks? As for the QBs, at least you admit that Rosenfels was awful. Seeing that the flip was really Rosenfels for Ragone, then maybe you could somehow admit that Kubiak's picks there weren't a very good idea. You say that Ragone was let go for a reason. Well, the only reason I have heard is that catch-all lame excuse of "he doesn't fit with his system," an excuse a coach can use to make any and every personnel move that was obviously bad. In fact, if you take everything into consideration and were honest rather than just trying to put the best light on a bad situation and rubber stamp all of Kubiak's deals, you might admit that Kubiak may be making this team worse rather than better. You know, you really don't have to be Kubiak's rubber stamp anymore. After all, he just hired one to be his GM. No need for duplication of efforts, you know.

Buffi2
06-05-2006, 05:50 PM
Ye Gads, Bobo - is there no end to your dismal outlook?

As far as Capers is concerned - I think one name answers the question as to who was mainly responsible between Capers and Casserly.....Victor Riley...I still get hives when I hear his name. Say what you will about all of the other bad moves - but this was the worst ever - compounded by the fact that this guy continued to start even when the most lame among us could see he was in the wrong profession.

Texan Chick is correct - enuf of 2005 already or we may all end up sounding like poor Bobo. 2006 is here, season tickets will be mailed the middle of July and pre-season can't be far behind.:fans:

tsip
06-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

Fact--18/46 record in 4 yrs. Fact-after 4 full yrs of Capers- 2/14 record with offense/defense ranked near bottom. Fact, a better 1st year record with better offensive and defensive rankings. Fact, we were 7/9 in our 3rd yr, with 4 wins against the Jags/Titans, other 3 victories were against losing teams, only team with a winning record we beat the entire year were the Jags.Fact-in just one year-we went from a so/so team to the worse team in the NFL. Fact, Caper's last year/8th year was his worse in his career. After 8 yrs as a HC and 2-14 is the best Caper's can do?...and that's a fact, Jack (aka Bobo)....

Bobo
06-05-2006, 05:58 PM
Fact--18/46 record in 4 yrs. Fact-after 4 full yrs of Capers- 2/14 record with offense/defense ranked near bottom. Fact, a better 1st year record with better offensive and defensive rankings. Fact, we were 7/9 in our 3rd yr, with 4 wins against the Jags/Titans, other 3 victories were against losing teams, only team with a winning record we beat the entire year were the Jags.Fact-in just one year-we went from a so/so team to the worse team in the NFL. Fact, Caper's last year/8th year was his worse in his career. After 8 yrs as a HC and 2-14 is the best Caper's can do?...and that's a fact, Jack (aka Bobo)....

Fact: That record occurred during the Texans' first four years of existence. Fact: Capers took a team from scratch, with no infrastructure whatsoever, and brought them to within one game of .500 in just three years. And it doesn't matter who you beat. ALL those teams had been around a lot, lot longer than the Texans were. Jax went to the AFC championship game a couple times and the Titans got within a yard of winning the SB. Fact: Cowher took his team from a 13-3 record in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- a regression of seven games. In two years, his team went from championship caliber to awful Yet. he was allowed to right the ship and got a SB. Also see Paul Brown and Mike Holmgren. And those are ALL facts, sipper!

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 06:00 PM
The point is that the team did NOT give up on Capers during that game or any other game.

You did see the post earlier about NEVER having a single lead in the first six games of 2005, right?

They played flat and like they'd never been on the field together. These are signs of coaching failure, plain and simple. And obviously, the Texans FO feels the same way.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:01 PM
Texan Chick is correct - enuf of 2005 already or we may all end up sounding like poor Bobo. 2006 is here, season tickets will be mailed the middle of July and pre-season can't be far behind.:fans:

Yep, 2006 is here -- and if you would look at the post, I agreed with that post which admitted that 2006 is over, stick a fork in it. You might try to read things a bit more carefully if you are going to bring them up again.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:02 PM
You did see the post earlier about NEVER having a single lead in the first six games of 2005, right?

Hah! You do realize that your above post is a prediction, don't you? Either that or you, too, don't even realize what year it is! Which is it??

Ibar_Harry
06-05-2006, 06:03 PM
Yep, 2006 is here -- and if you would look at the post, I agreed with that post which admitted that 2006 is over, stick a fork in it. You might try to read things a bit more carefully if you are going to bring them up again.

Chick go back and edit your post so BOBO can't keep quoting it. Then we can accuse him of misquoting you.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:06 PM
Chick go back and edit your post so BOBO can't keep quoting it. Then we can accuse him of misquoting you.

Hah! So it's gotten to this! Tsk, tsk. Oh, you might want to inform Double Barrell of what year it is as well! And Buffi, too ... wait, do I see a pattern forming here?

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 06:07 PM
Hah! You do realize that your above post is a prediction, don't you? Either that or you, too, don't even realize what year it is! Which is it??

Fixed. :ok:

But it still doesn't change the fact that the 2005 Texans came out of the gate limping and gimped themselves through an entire season. This was a coaching problem, plain and simple.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:16 PM
Fixed. :ok:

But it still doesn't change the fact that the 2005 Texans came out of the gate limping and gimped themselves through an entire season. This was a coaching problem, plain and simple.

They came out of the gate and lost two games -- one on the road against Buffalo that nobody expected them to win in the first place and then one against Pittsburgh -- a team that I believe won the SB, as I recall. Immediately, everybody called for people's heads. Talk about panicking! :francis: Nobody is saying last year was a good one by any stretch of the imagination, but I am saying that folks panicked way, way too early in the game. Plus, like I said many times before, there are plenty of coaches that had bad years but were given the chance to right themselves and went on to championships, if not outright SB victories. After Capers took a team from scratch and accomplished what he did in 2004, he should have been given a chance to right the ship in 2005, just like Holmgren, Cowher, and Paul Brown. Now, instead, we have a guy who has basically changed the Texans into Broncos Lite. Seems to me that if you folks wanted the Broncos then you'd be buying Broncos jerseys! I remember when the Browns went the same route and tried to become 49ers Lite. It was a disaster. When a team tries to steal another's identity, it usually doesn't work because teams are different. And folks around here criticize CAPERS for fitting square pegs into round holes?

tsip
06-05-2006, 06:16 PM
Fact: That record occurred during the Texans' first four years of existence. Fact: Capers took a team from scratch, with no infrastructure whatsoever, and brought them to within one game of .500 in just three years. And it doesn't matter who you beat. ALL those teams had been around a lot, lot longer than the Texans were. Jax went to the AFC championship game a couple times and the Titans got within a yard of winning the SB. Fact: Cowher took his team from a 13-3 record in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- a regression of seven games. In two years, his team went from championship caliber to awful Yet. he was allowed to right the ship and got a SB. Also see Paul Brown and Mike Holmgren. And those are ALL facts, sipper!


...and 1n 2004 Cohwer's record was 15-1 and- as you know- his team won the SB the next year...bottom line, Capers took us from 4-12 to 2-14 in just 4 yrs and the Texans are the only recent expansion team to not make the playoffs by their 4th year---yeah, heck of a job by, Dom, so noted by 'all' of the teams lining up to hire him...notttttttttttt Oh, yeah, Bobo--how do you compare Kubiak's results to anyones when (I think) the Texans have not even played a game yet under him?

U4ikrob
06-05-2006, 06:19 PM
Well Thanks for your 2 cents Bobo.

?Putting words in his mouth - Whoa there man - :challenge You dont even know me so back that truck up. Yea ive actually talked to Coach Capers more than once over the last 4 years. During camp, at public outings etc...

As I said it above IMO - Its My opinion - :stirpot: Capers is a nice man, but not the greatest coach nor did his philosophy on football and the team workout. The results are in - the milk is allready spilled. His statements about the team are very well known, along with his philosphy of coaching. Need I quote the Texans website to you from the last 4 years of articles? Surely you can look up the archives.

So what exactly did you think about the article above Bobo? BTW - Did you read the article above??

Bottom line and way out to lunch? - Most of my facts came from my attending the teams training camp for 4 years, having played football myself for a few years, attending some Texans games, watching the remainder on TV, listening to players talk about the coach and the games along with the commentary that always comes from the folks around the organization and the league. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable fan and certainly would disagree with your claims above. I guess you didnt notice the lackluster play on the field or perhaps thought it didnt say anything about Capers coaching abilities eh Bobo?

Your examples of a good Defense in the Panthers and Bears game at the end of 04 are well noted. We also did pretty good that first year against Pittsburgh by holding them to 6 points.

But thats the problem Bobo - they were the very few good performances by a Defense that played pretty bad for the most part and had little to no bite against any team overall for most of the 4 years Capers & Fangio were coaches here.

Your example of year 3 were the "Vaunted "Defense" of Capers brought them to almost .500 also managed to allow more points that year against any team they had played in the 3 years they were around to the time.

They started that 04 year by allowing

San Diego 27 pts
Detroit 28 pts
Kansas City 21 pts
Oakland 17 pts
Minnesota 34 pts

For an Average of 25.4 points per game

Then they had a couple of good defensive games allowing

Tennessee 10
And the Jags - 6

But right after that they follow it up with a couple of stinkers again
Giving up 31 to Denver and a franchise worst 49 points to the Colts including giving up 5 TD's to Manning. This is the year they got to almost .500 allright, but it wasnt because the Defense was helping so much as the Offense was scoring more. Those are the facts Bobo - If you want to look em up - all you need do is hit the stats bar on the Texans website - the data is all there.

The defense continued to bomb out in 04 by giving up

16 v Greenbay
21 V Titans
29 v Jets
23 v Colts

This is all before they could stop the bleeding again with your 2 good games against the Jags and Bears. Then they wrap up Christmas and the season by giving up 22 pts to a very bad Cleveland team.

The points and facts are all there Bobo -The seasons production as a whole makes a big difference - The defense was bad for most of the 04 season and averaged close to 25+ points per game for the season. I dunno what system your used to watching for good defense and I wont assume, but the defense was just plain bad by the NFL grade and IMO we would have won more games as a team if the "Defense" would have at least been average that year. Then they follow that year up with 2-14. Honestly Bobo I dont want any part of a football coach who's defense spots the other team an average of 25 points per game as my coach. I honestly cannot fathom how that could translate as being a good coach for a defense anywhere in this league.

BTW - Anybody know if Vic Fangio has a job anywhere in the league this year?

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:21 PM
Bobo..what did you think of the Rams game? hmmm ... too bad it wasn't hockey where we have 2 intermissions where Capers could work his "motivation" speach

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:22 PM
To begin with I don't think I've seen anyone who's opinion I consider worth anything speak badly of Capers since he was fired. There are always going to be those fans who are ready to lynch the coach or any assistant, player, or front office person they perceive to be "the problem" but those people don't know squat.

The opinions I'm seeing that matter (to me at least) are all fairly consistent in hanging the blame on Capers for not doing something about the coaches under him. He was in a bad marriage to Chris Palmer from the start and never held Vic Fangio accountable for putting the kind of defense that Capers was known for on the field. Then he brought in the clearly incompetent Joe Pendry to take "Palmer type" offensive picks and run a "Capers type" offense. Dom did not manage the people who worked for him and so he lost his job. End of story IMO.

If Kubiak does something with many of these same players then in my mind the case will be closed. Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.

this sums alot of my feelings for Capers..

I still stick to my.. we did more with less in the first few years than last year

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:23 PM
...and 1n 2004 Cohwer's record was 15-1 and- as you know- his team won the SB the next year...bottom line, Capers took us from 4-12 to 2-14 in just 4 yrs and the Texans are the only recent expansion team to not make the playoffs by their 4th year---yeah, heck of a job by, Dom, so noted by 'all' of the teams lining up to hire him...notttttttttttt

Thanks! You've proven my point! Cowher was 6-10 in 2003 after regressing 7 games in just two years and, instead of being fired, was given a chance to right the ship and did! So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know, though, why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight years, especially what he accomplished in 2004. Of course, I realize you do that because that fact doesn't fit in with your conclusion so you conveniently set it aside. Also, uh ... you do realize, don't you, that a comparison of a 2 game regression doesn't sound bad at all when you compare it with a seven-game regression in two years generated by Cowher, do you? Oh, and I do recall that Capers was a finalist for the Buffalo job, if you'd check your facts, of course -- something many folks seem to avoid like the plague. And you do realize by repeating this mantra of "nobody hired Capers as a head coach" does a lot of damage in regards to Kubiak's moves where Ragone, Bradford and Gaffney all got snatched up quickly by other teams -- especially Bradford who is pencilled in as a starter for the Lions this year, doncha? Yep, it's always nice to find a STARTER ON THE WAIVER WIRE!!!

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:26 PM
Bobo..what did you think of the Rams game? hmmm ... too bad it wasn't hockey where we have 2 intermissions where Capers could work his "motivation" speach

I was there and again, you have proven my point! If you would have noticed the players reactions at the end, there was certainly no indication of anybody quitting on Capers. If anything, the team was overconfident. But that certainly does not give any indication that the team had given up on Capers.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:26 PM
Thanks! You've proven my point! Cowher was 6-10 in 2003 after regressing 7 games in just two years and, instead of being fired, was given a chance to right the ship and did! So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight years, especially what he accomplished in 2004. You do realize, don't you, that a comparison of a 2 game regression doesn't sound bad at all when you compare it with a seven-game regression in two years generated by Cowher, do you? Oh, and I do recall that Capers was a finalist for the Buffalo job, if you'd check your facts, of course -- something many folks seem to avoid like the plague. And you do realize by repeating this mantra of "nobody hired Capers as a head coach" does a lot of damage in regards to Kubiak's moves where Ragone, Bradford and Gaffney all got snatched up quickly by other teams -- especially Bradford who is pencilled in as a starter for the Lions this year, doncha? Yep, it's always nice to find a STARTER ON THE WAIVER WIRE!!!


Bill got a leadway because of his coaching history..it it was Bill's 3rd of 4th year in coaching, he probably would get the axe.. same with Jeff Fisher

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:27 PM
The same thing I thought of any other loss. Again, if you would notice the players reactions at the end, there was certainly no indication of anybody quitting on Capers. If anything, the team was overconfident. But that certainly does not give any indication that the team had given up on Capers.


wow.. 2-14 record and we were overconfident now :ok:


confident teams pick up 3rd and short on offense..
confindent teams pick up the 3rd and 6 pass over the middle.

confident teams stop teams on 3rd and 9 or 3rd and short.

confident teams make the plays

Bobo
06-05-2006, 06:30 PM
wow.. 2-14 record and we were overconfident now :ok:


confident teams pick up 3rd and short on offense..
confindent teams pick up the 3rd and 6 pass over the middle.

confident teams stop teams on 3rd and 9 or 3rd and short.

confident teams make the plays

In that game, it was obvious they were with a third-string QB taking over and all. Then again, I was there. And there is a difference between "confident" and "overconfident" which is exactly what I was getting at. Might want to check the ole dictionary on that one.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:33 PM
In that game, it was obvious they were with a third-string QB taking over and all. Then again, I was there. And there is a difference between "confident" and "overconfident" which is exactly what I was getting at. Might want to check the ole dictionary on that one.


and again.. confident teams pick up the tough yards on offense

and confident teams stop teams when they need to be

I really don't know how a team can come into a game "overconfident" when you have 2 wins under your belt and fighting for the #1 pick in the draft ..along with a 30ish ranking on offense and a 30ish ranking on defense..no pass protection, no pass rush..

:ok:

Wolfiegrrl
06-05-2006, 06:34 PM
Honestly BoBo, if Capers is such a head coaching genius why didn't he get another head coaching position. Hell, why did he lose is first head coaching job? Some people aren't made to be head coaches. I'll give Capers his well deserved props for putting together good defenses. 2003 defense wasn't that bad and 2004 offense & defense gave us hope... but what the hell happened in 2005? Who do you blame BoBo?

Something went horribly wrong in H-Town. It doesn't matter if it was the GM, the Head Coach, the OC, the DC or any of the other coaches, there was no fire in the bellies of any Texan player nor any Texan coach on the field for Houston last year. No one was on the same page. I don't know how many times I had to suffer through the camera crews focusing in on Capers open mouthed dumb struck look.

When you have your quarterback BEGGING you to fix the o-line, you don't add timed plays and hope your craptastic offensive linemen can hold together. And speaking of the QB, what's a guy to do to avoid sacks when you only have .18 seconds to get the ball and throw it? I guess throwing it out of bounds is an option, but then we would have been 0-16 then wouldn't we. Of course, now you're going to argue the fact that Carr should have been able to read the defense and magically know there was going to be a guy open down field. Hell, when he got the chance, it seemed that no one last year could catch the damned ball.

Everyone in the Houston organization is to blame for the horrible season we had last year. McNair, Casserly, Capers, Pendry, Fangio, Hoke, Carr, Johnson, Davis, McKinney, Riley... everyone! I'm tired of reading about you pointing fingers to everyone but Capers. He has as much blame, if not more, for the piss poor excuse of a football team he led onto the field last year.

This year starts fresh. I'm giving everyone a chance. Do you know why? Because no amount of my gripping and complaining is going to be heard by the powers that be in the Texans Front Office. Nothing I say or do will affect what happens with this team. Therefore, I'm all for rooting for the guys that get on that field and play this year. From the pictures of the OTAs and interviews, I see that fire that's been missing. And I'm more excited about football than I have been in years. :redtowel:

Wolf
06-05-2006, 06:34 PM
I was there and again, you have proven my point! If you would have noticed the players reactions at the end, there was certainly no indication of anybody quitting on Capers. If anything, the team was overconfident. But that certainly does not give any indication that the team had given up on Capers.


the players reaction ?

on what Walkers grumbling toward the end of the season? Coleman's suspension for "speaking out"?

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 06:38 PM
Every team in the NFL has to deal with injuries and player turnover and that is a constant every year. The Pats won a SB with over 40 different player combinations during the year, including a secondary so depleated that a WR was playing as a DB. As Belicek said once when asked about injuries, they are a 'given, difference is how you deal with them. We expect to win, We won't accept excuses.' Under Capers, there was no such philosophy and some fans still make excuses for the Texans under Capers.

Here's the difference though, Belichick gives the props to his man Pioli for getting the right goods.

"Scott Pioli joined the New England Patriots on Feb. 10, 2000 and has worked in concert with Head Coach Bill Belichick to build some of the most successful teams in NFL history. After arriving in New England, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team and to successfully implement their shared football philosophy."

"The primary objective of Pioli's personnel philosophy is to build a team, not to simply collect individual talent. As a result, the Patriots have been able to prosper despite the NFL realities of injuries and the salary cap, which have proven in the past to be impediments to long-term success in pro football."

Now are we saying Capers is a Belichick? No.

How do you know if Casserly fetched a load of duds?

Do really honestly think that the Patriots players are on the same level as the Texans? That if Capers went to New England and Belichick came to Houston... would the Patriots go 4-12/2-14 and the Texans ( whatever the Patriots went last year 10-6 or something like that ) would have the record that the Patriots had.

I bet not... I bet you would see a Belichick's Browns and a Capers Panthers.

Maybe we would have 6-10 or another 7-9 and possibly an 8-8 with the same injuries. And what would that have done us? Drafting Matt Leinert?

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 06:46 PM
I think you mean 2005 was toast. I certainly hope 2006 isn't toast....

EEEK! Fixed.

U4ikrob
06-05-2006, 06:48 PM
I'm guessing Jamie Sharper, Aaron Glenn, Coleman, Walker, Foreman, Foley, Gaffney, Ragone, Wells etc.. all couldnt wait to say glowing things about the Capers era as coach here eh??

Oh wait thats right they have allready said some things that were not so great and couldnt wait to get on the bus to get out of town as fast as possible.

IMO from my own playing experience - Players recognize a winner and a loser. Winners court Winning and well Losers court Trying not to lose. IMO Capers showed himself to be in the latter category time and again for 4 years to the point the team lost all confidence in him.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 06:53 PM
You're kiddin' me, right? :um:

The Texans never had a single lead in the first six games of the 2005 season. A record, I might add, that hasn't been touched since the NFL of the 1930's!!

No, we didn't get blown out every single game...hey, we won two! :ok:

LOL, what!

I don't think you are being a very nice fella draggin that out. :D

SESupergenius
06-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Well, as I said, Martz would differ with you over Bradford. And I personally wouldn't like overpaid, old quitters on my team whose numbers in yards per pass are declining and has only caught 10 TDs in three games -- not to mention his "conduct detrimental to the team" suspension. And I do believe that Walters has, what is it -- 30 catches in 3 years with one TD? I do believe Gaffney and Bradford for that matter are much, much better than that. And you say you'd choose Kubiak's picks? LEt's see, Gaffney, a 2nd round pick couldn't beat out Bradford for the majority of his tenure here in Houston and he goes to team who's #1 reciever caught a total of 1 TD pass last year. And Bradford is competing against Mike (AWOL) Williams and Charles (Plexiglass II) Rogers, of which both combined for 2 total TD's last year. Yep, I'm still taking Kubiaks picks over these two underachievers.



Hmm!! And let's see -- you'd rather have Smith and Cook over Norris and Wells? I don't think too many people believe Cook is all that much of an improvement over Norris, if any. And if I were you, I'd look twice at the stats regarding Smith. He had just as many poor games as good ones with the Saints last year as a starter. And how many teams has he been with since he was drafted in the first round? Washed out with the Bills, washed out with the Pats, washed out with the Titans, washed out with the Saints. Doncha just love how Kubiak brings all these young, promising guys into Houston and suits them up? You might also want to look at what Wells did when he was called upon to start in place of Davis. He ran for 88 yards, caught 33 in receptions and scored two TDs, leading the team to one of its two wins last year. Now, you would take Kubiak's picks?
Sure I'd still take Kubiaks picks. One thing that Wells won't bring to this team is veteran leadership and playoff experience, something you'd wouldn't expect from a 3rd stringer. At a relatively low price tag, Smith brings an aweful lot more than Wells......and his 4.0 ypc was more than Well's last year, not bad for "over the hill" guy. You are really reaching with the "washed" out thing with the Saints, he was a backup RB, they weren't looking for him to be their featured back. LOL. Cook isn't a super FB but at least has some stats, Moran was used basically as a blocker so you can not base ANY of your judgement on his running back or receiving skills. At least we know that Cook can block AND catch the ball out of the backfield. With all the other assessments he has to make, I don't fault Kubiak with going in a safer direction here at fullback.

As for the QBs, at least you admit that Rosenfels was awful. Seeing that the flip was really Rosenfels for Ragone, then maybe you could somehow admit that Kubiak's picks there weren't a very good idea. You say that Ragone was let go for a reason. Well, the only reason I have heard is that catch-all lame excuse of "he doesn't fit with his system," an excuse a coach can use to make any and every personnel move that was obviously bad. In fact, if you take everything into consideration and were honest rather than just trying to put the best light on a bad situation and rubber stamp all of Kubiak's deals, you might admit that Kubiak may be making this team worse rather than better. You know, you really don't have to be Kubiak's rubber stamp anymore. After all, he just hired one to be his GM. No need for duplication of efforts, you know.I basically view that as a Rosenfels for Banks, which is exactly what they are listed as in their respective rolls for the Texans....the #2 QB. Banks was handed the reigns last year and fell flat on his face. Rosenfels had a better QB rating than Banks last year. We already know what Banks is uncapable of, let's not hang on to him too much longer and what better way to bring in a new backup QB than in a year with a completely new systems where every QB has to fight for his position.

tsip
06-05-2006, 07:08 PM
"Here's the difference though, Belichick gives the props to his man Pioli for getting the right goods."

Coach B gives credit whereever/whenever it is due to who deserves it...he also accepts blame when things go wrong and has built a team around winning and not making excuses. Unlike Capers, B admits he made mistakes with the Browns and learned from them, not a strong point with Capers. I don't understand your point with the above quote because (a) Capers seldom praised anyone and (b) never accepted blame. My point is that a team can't base whether it can win or lose based upon its injury situation, a part of the game shared by every team. When a HC starts accepting/making excuses, I think that spreads like a 'cancer' throughout the team. For example, what happens if you lose half your starting line up in the first game to injury? Do you 'call out the calvary' or do you 'fold the tent and go home?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:11 PM
LEt's see, Gaffney, a 2nd round pick couldn't beat out Bradford for the majority of his tenure here in Houston and he goes to team who's #1 reciever caught a total of 1 TD pass last year. And Bradford is competing against Mike (AWOL) Williams and Charles (Plexiglass II) Rogers, of which both combined for 2 total TD's last year. Yep, I'm still taking Kubiaks picks over these two underachievers.



Sure I'd still take Kubiaks picks. One thing that Wells won't bring to this team is veteran leadership and playoff experience, something you'd wouldn't expect from a 3rd stringer. At a relatively low price tag, Smith brings an aweful lot more than Wells......and his 4.0 ypc was more than Well's last year, not bad for "over the hill" guy. You are really reaching with the "washed" out thing with the Saints, he was a backup RB, they weren't looking for him to be their featured back. LOL. Cook isn't a super FB but at least has some stats, Moran was used basically as a blocker so you can not base ANY of your judgement on his running back or receiving skills. At least we know that Cook can block AND catch the ball out of the backfield. With all the other assessments he has to make, I don't fault Kubiak with going in a safer direction here at fullback.

I basically view that as a Rosenfels for Banks, which is exactly what they are listed as in their respective rolls for the Texans....the #2 QB. Banks was handed the reigns last year and fell flat on his face. Rosenfels had a better QB rating than Banks last year. We already know what Banks is uncapable of, let's not hang on to him too much longer and what better way to bring in a new backup QB than in a year with a completely new systems where every QB has to fight for his position.

A.) Banks was cut and Ragone was the #2 guy at the time ole Sage was brought in, so let's not try to make this bad move sound better by claiming it was a Banks for Rosenfels trade. B.) I quoted you the stats regarding Wells and Smith. Assuming you hadn't heard, Smith has washed out four separate times after being a first rounder. As a sub, Wells is just as good as Smith and proved it by what he did vs. the Cardinals. I do believe that Gaffney was ahead of Bradford on the depth chart last year, and you could make a weak argument that Moulds may be better than Bradford (certainly not Gaffney) but that argument gets shot to heck when you look at the boatload of money the Texans paid for a quitter who was suspended for conduct detrimental to the team last year, not to mention many of his #s are in decline. Also, I believe it's a stretch to bring in pass receiving for fullbacks into this argument since, with the Texans, the first order of business would be TO KEEP FOLKS OFF CARR and to open holes for Davis. Besides, Davis is the guy Carr would go to out of the backfield. With any kind of rush coming on Carr, I can't actually believe you would send both the fullback AND the tailback AND the TE out on pass routes. That kind of strategy will cause the necessity to challenge Rosenfels's mettle very, very early on in the season.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:16 PM
wow is there a gas leak?


I like Gaffney but even with Moulds in decline ..it is still better than what Gaffney (who I like as a slot receiver) and Bradford have to offer.. Bradford had 4 years to keep the double teams off of AJ ..we might as well had Willie Gault on the other side

Please with the "quitter" thing I have posted different links to that and you have ignored the articles that talked about it..

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:18 PM
I hate to say this but this reminds me of your :homer: ism for Bradford and Capers,etc

from Mr Baseball

Jack Eliot: I'm a World Series MVP!
Skip: That was four years ago, Jack. Last season, you hit .235.
Jack Eliot: LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!

Double Barrel
06-05-2006, 07:19 PM
They came out of the gate and lost two games -- one on the road against Buffalo that nobody expected them to win in the first place and then one against Pittsburgh -- a team that I believe won the SB, as I recall. Immediately, everybody called for people's heads. Talk about panicking! :francis:

Fans reacted to what they saw on the team: an offensive coordinator - a Capers coach, BTW - getting fired two games into a season.

Now, perhaps in your twisted logic this was a sign of great head coaching. idonno:

But to the rest of us, it appeared that Dom no longer understood what he was doing and had lost control of his team.

Then, after firing the OC, we lose four more in a row without having even ONE lead in a game.

That's pathetic, man. Just pathetic.

Fans did not influence Palmer getting fired. The owner saw the same thing we saw in the stands: a flat, uninspired group of individual players who did not believe in the system or the coaches.

You can cover a turd in chocolate sauce and put sprinkles on it, Bobo, but at the end of the day, it still tastes like crap. So live in your delusion all you want, but you're living in the past now.

tsip
06-05-2006, 07:24 PM
" So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know, though, why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight ..."

So. how would the Texans have done in year 5? Following your logic with Cowher, we would have been 15-1! Right? No way, Bobo.

You've got your sights set much lower than I do for the Texans- you accept losing and mediocrity and make excuses for why it's OK to lose every year. I don't. Under Caper's philosophy, when would the team become a winner? He never coached to win with the Texans--when was he going to start?

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:26 PM
" So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know, though, why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight ..."

So. how would the Texans have done in year 5? Following your logic with Cowher, we would have been 15-1! Right? No way, Bobo.

You've got your sights set much lower than I do for the Texans- you accept losing and mediocrity and make excuses for why it's OK to lose every year. I don't. Under Caper's philosophy, when would the team become a winner? He never coached to win with the Texans--when was he going to start?

Capers reminds me of Fisher.. run smash mouth ball and have a great defense..play it close.. for Fisher it was only after George got hurt that he "opened" the offense up and trusted McNairl.. but Fisher had a great defense.

Dom just couldn't get it all together here

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:32 PM
Well Thanks for your 2 cents Bobo.

?Putting words in his mouth - Whoa there man - :challenge You dont even know me so back that truck up. Yea ive actually talked to Coach Capers more than once over the last 4 years. During camp, at public outings etc...

As I said it above IMO - Its My opinion - :stirpot: Capers is a nice man, but not the greatest coach nor did his philosophy on football and the team workout. The results are in - the milk is allready spilled. His statements about the team are very well known, along with his philosphy of coaching. Need I quote the Texans website to you from the last 4 years of articles? Surely you can look up the archives.

So what exactly did you think about the article above Bobo? BTW - Did you read the article above??

Bottom line and way out to lunch? - Most of my facts came from my attending the teams training camp for 4 years, having played football myself for a few years, attending some Texans games, watching the remainder on TV, listening to players talk about the coach and the games along with the commentary that always comes from the folks around the organization and the league. I consider myself a fairly knowledgable fan and certainly would disagree with your claims above. I guess you didnt notice the lackluster play on the field or perhaps thought it didnt say anything about Capers coaching abilities eh Bobo?

Your examples of a good Defense in the Panthers and Bears game at the end of 04 are well noted. We also did pretty good that first year against Pittsburgh by holding them to 6 points.

But thats the problem Bobo - they were the very few good performances by a Defense that played pretty bad for the most part and had little to no bite against any team overall for most of the 4 years Capers & Fangio were coaches here.

Your example of year 3 were the "Vaunted "Defense" of Capers brought them to almost .500 also managed to allow more points that year against any team they had played in the 3 years they were around to the time.

They started that 04 year by allowing

San Diego 27 pts
Detroit 28 pts
Kansas City 21 pts
Oakland 17 pts
Minnesota 34 pts

For an Average of 25.4 points per game

Then they had a couple of good defensive games allowing

Tennessee 10
And the Jags - 6

But right after that they follow it up with a couple of stinkers again
Giving up 31 to Denver and a franchise worst 49 points to the Colts including giving up 5 TD's to Manning. This is the year they got to almost .500 allright, but it wasnt because the Defense was helping so much as the Offense was scoring more. Those are the facts Bobo - If you want to look em up - all you need do is hit the stats bar on the Texans website - the data is all there.

The defense continued to bomb out in 04 by giving up

16 v Greenbay
21 V Titans
29 v Jets
23 v Colts

This is all before they could stop the bleeding again with your 2 good games against the Jags and Bears. Then they wrap up Christmas and the season by giving up 22 pts to a very bad Cleveland team.

The points and facts are all there Bobo -The seasons production as a whole makes a big difference - The defense was bad for most of the 04 season and averaged close to 25+ points per game for the season. I dunno what system your used to watching for good defense and I wont assume, but the defense was just plain bad by the NFL grade and IMO we would have won more games as a team if the "Defense" would have at least been average that year. Then they follow that year up with 2-14. Honestly Bobo I dont want any part of a football coach who's defense spots the other team an average of 25 points per game as my coach. I honestly cannot fathom how that could translate as being a good coach for a defense anywhere in this league.

BTW - Anybody know if Vic Fangio has a job anywhere in the league this year?

And when, prey tell -- since you have had so many discussions with Capers -- did he say the exact words, "I play not to lose?" Do you think he would confirm those exact words if he was asked? I sincerely doubt that, so put that truck back where it belongs. As far as the defense goes in 2004 -- how do you arrive at the belief that 16 points to a Favre-led GB squad when h was still good was a "bomb?" I remember that game and as I recall it sure wasn't the defense that "bombed!" And where do you get the belief that allowing 21 points to the Jets and 23 points to the Manning-led Colts are an instance of "bombing out" as well? I only see four bad games the defense played during that season, and that's where they gave up 27 points or more. And good grief, man! Since when are you going to blame the defense for that game against Cleveland. My gosh, man! What do you expect for a team in its third year? The Baltimore Ravens? The Tampa Bucs? This was their THIRD YEAR of existence, man! Their THIRD YEAR! It amazes me that folks just don't seem to get that! They beat both the Bears and Jax on the road and they gave up a grand total of five points! And in just their third year of existence, they gave up 27 points or more JUST FOUR TIMES -- the entire year! That is fantastic for a third-year team! You're acting like they should be the Bears of 1985! Sometimes I have to wonder what planet some folks are really on when they expect championship performances out of teams with just two complete seasons under their belts and the team just beginning to come together. Every stat you quoted for 2004 only buttresses my point -- that for a team with just two complete seasons under their belts, the Capers squad did very, very well. Then again, if you are talking about the Steelers, that wouldn't have been too good. Oh yeah, that's right. When the coach of the Steelers had a bad, bad year with a complete infrastructure behind him and a team with a boatload of experience under its belt, they fired him. Uh, oops! Wrong! They gave him a break. Instead, it was the guy with the team he took from scratch who got fired. Hmmm ... what is wrong with this picture? Oh, BTW -- are you of the opinion that a coach can be judged based on if he was hired by another NFL team or not? Be careful how you answer!

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 07:32 PM
Here's what we are saying with injuries:

We are not talking for the coach. We are talking from our point of view. To my knowledge Capers never really said injuries were the only reason they couldn't win.

Now from our vantage point we can. There have been several articles published by sports writers and ESPN over the years talking how Super Bowl teams usually fail to repeat because of injury from a prolonged season. I patched one up here some time ago from the Dallas Morning News drawing links between injury and season record.

For the Texans I can say injury was a large part of the problem.
http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9115921

There are now two stories I linked up here showing a depleted offensive line and a depleted defensive line. Now how can you say the coach is at sole fault?
You are not going to win very many games with your 2nd and 3rd string lines on both sides of the ball.

This is not... I repeat not a reason that Capers shouldn't go. He should have gone and got the boot with Casserly. This is only to say Capers didn't screw the franchise up by himself.

I will also pass on a quote for you
It is about having players. That's all it's about. That's who goes out there and plays the game. They're the ones who block, tackle, run, catch, kick ... they're the ones that do it. That's what it's about. Any team that's successful has to have players that go out there and can execute and can play well and be productive.

"There's no player that's more appropriate or more deserving to execute that play"

It ain't Capers.

It wasn't all Capers.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:34 PM
Capers reminds me of Fisher.. run smash mouth ball and have a great defense..play it close.. for Fisher it was only after George got hurt that he "opened" the offense up and trusted McNairl.. but Fisher had a great defense.

Dom just couldn't get it all together here

He did just fine for three years.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:40 PM
" So I guess you are agreeing with me that Capers should have been given that chance! I would sure like to know, though, why you continually ignore the accomplishments of Capers in which he improved the team's record two straight ..."

So. how would the Texans have done in year 5? Following your logic with Cowher, we would have been 15-1! Right? No way, Bobo.

You've got your sights set much lower than I do for the Texans- you accept losing and mediocrity and make excuses for why it's OK to lose every year. I don't. Under Caper's philosophy, when would the team become a winner? He never coached to win with the Texans--when was he going to start?

Um, no -- unless Pittsburgh was only in its fourth year of existence! I think you are trying to avoid the fact that the Steelers allowed Cowher the chance to bounce back, even though his regression was worse than Capers, while Capers didn't get that chance. And once again, where did you get the idea that Capers didn't play to win? I never heard him say that in any press conference. He played conservative, correct -- which was exactly the right thing to do when you have a team very early in its existence filled with young players who are still wet behind their ears and lacking in NFL experience! What did you expect him to do -- come out and have Carr gun it around like Peyton Manning? Capers did the exact right thing by playing conservatively due to his situation -- and if you don't think that Kubiak will do the same thing, then you are in for a heckuva surprise. After all, Anderson and Bell didn't both gain 1,000 yards by Plummer throwing the ball all the time!

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:44 PM
I bet our offense is better than 30th next season and that is without bradford and Gaffney.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:47 PM
You've got your sights set much lower than I do for the Texans- you accept losing and mediocrity and make excuses for why it's OK to lose every year. I don't. Under Caper's philosophy, when would the team become a winner? He never coached to win with the Texans--when was he going to start?

I have no problem with losing and mediocrity from a team just four years into their existence. In fact, I expect it! If you don't understand the fact that it takes time to build a consistent winner when you are starting from scratch, then perhaps you should talk to a NO fan. You know how long it took them to get a winning team? Try 20 years. That's right, 20 years. It isn't an easy feat to accomplish. Now, if you are a team with years of SB experience and some Lombardi trophies on your mantle and if you had a record of 13-3 and 11-5 in 2001 and 2002 that's different. I can see how you would be angry about a season where you plummetted to 6-10 in 2003. Using your philosophy, with all the advantages that team had going for them, you would CERTAINLY fire the coach. Uh, oops! You just fired the guy who went 15-1 in 2004 and won the SB in 2005! Umm, doesn't sound like too sound a philosophy to me!

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:51 PM
I bet our offense is better than 30th next season and that is without bradford and Gaffney.

If the offense is better, then it will be because the line play is better -- certainly not because of who is catching the balls that Carr couldn't even get off last year due to bad protection. But then again, if Kubiak sends his TE out for passes and thereby weakens the weakest link in the Texans offensive chain and weakens it even further by sending Cook out as well, then you might be talking about just what good ole Sage is capable of doing! Will he be able to get them better than 30th? And heck, if they have another bad season, will it matter if their offense finishes 30th or 28th or 26th?

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:52 PM
I would agree with some of that.

but you start out with (all under 30 mind you)
Glenn
Coleman
Boselli
Young
Sharper
Lewis
etc,etc on expansion draft

what did we get 12 players on initial draft?
and between 2003-2005 we got how many picks along with FA?

and after 4 years you are picking #1 overal with just 2 wins..less than what you won in your inital "rookie" season?

Wolf
06-05-2006, 07:54 PM
If the offense is better, then it will be because the line play is better -- certainly not because of who is catching the balls that Carr couldn't even get off last year due to bad protection. But then again, if Kubiak sends his TE out for passes and thereby weakens the weakest link in the Texans offensive chain and weakens it even further by sending Cook out as well, then you might be talking about just what good ole Sage is capable of doing! Will he be able to get them better than 30th? And heck, if they have another bad season, will it matter if their offense finishes 30th or 28th or 26th?


and would the lineplay be better because we got better coaching or would it be our new coaching staff realized that McKinney is a guard and not a center(he tried at center)

Sherman or Pendry.. hmmm

we will see

Scottyboy
06-05-2006, 07:56 PM
Capers was Hidious as a head coach!

Who gives a .... about what he thinks.

:twocents:

Bobo
06-05-2006, 07:57 PM
and would the lineplay be better because we got better coaching or would it be our new coaching staff realized that McKinney is a guard and not a center(he tried at center)

Sherman or Pendry.. hmmm

we will see

Here goes that same contradiction again: Criticize Capers because he didn't make any changes and when he did, criticize him for putting people in positions they don't normally play. And as I recall, Sherman didn't have all that outstanding a year last year as well. And he brought one of those OL that was part of that debacle with him.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 08:08 PM
Here goes that same contradiction again: Criticize Capers because he didn't make any changes and when he did, criticize him for putting people in positions they don't normally play. And as I recall, Sherman didn't have all that outstanding a year last year as well. And he brought one of those OL that was part of that debacle with him.

Capers had 4 years to get it done .. even after the 2004 season McNair said we have to protect the QB .well we didn't and Capers is gone

how can you not criticize capers for bringing in a RT throughout his career and making him a LT (riley) .. and he was horrible.. Bottom line is the coaching staff didn't know what to do with the line no idea half way into the season.. we bring in Wade from Miami and at the time most of us was applausing the move, and when our coaches got a hold of him .. he stunk.. he was lost..

It was a chinese fire drill on the line.. we go from Wand starting..to Riley taking over.. to Pitts moving over to LT.. Brown going to guard.. to Mckinney going to the other guard. to Center being a draft pick that escapes my mind right now..then he gets injured and McKinney going back..

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:09 PM
Capers was Hidious as a head coach!

Who gives a .... about what he thinks.

:twocents:

Hmm. You might want to do a few stretches and drills before you get into the game or else you could embarrass yourself.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:13 PM
Capers had 4 years to get it done .. even after the 2004 season McNair said we have to protect the QB .well we didn't and Capers is gone

how can you not criticize capers for bringing in a RT throughout his career and making him a LT (riley) .. and he was horrible.. Bottom line is the coaching staff didn't know what to do with the line no idea half way into the season.. we bring in Wade from Miami and at the time most of us was applausing the move, and when our coaches got a hold of him .. he stunk.. he was lost..

It was a chineese fire drill on the line.. we go from Wand starting..to Riley taking over.. to Pitts moving over to LT.. Brown going to guard.. to Mckinney going to the other guard. to Center being a draft pick that escapes my mind right now..then he gets injured and McKinney going back..

I wonder how many other coaches moved tackle from the right side to the left side and nobody made a peep about it? Fact is, Capers DID get it done in 2004 and to ignore his accomplishments during that year is ignoring the facts. And I find your "Chinese drill" declaration laughable. Like I said, people criticized Capers for not making changes and when he did, he got criticized for creating a "Chinese fire drill." Pardon me if I see a ton if disingenuousness in that rather flimsy argument.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 08:14 PM
you could embarrass yourself.

Does anybody find anything ironic with this statement.

Bobo with every post you put up, you appear to be a bigger fool.

Scottyboy
06-05-2006, 08:19 PM
Yeah I do. That comment made no cents at all???

Just another Capers Lover! Dolphins could always use another fan,

let me know how there doing? :shoot:

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 08:20 PM
I wonder how many other coaches moved tackle from the right side to the left side and nobody made a peep about it? Fact is, Capers DID get it done in 2004 and to ignore his accomplishments during that year is ignoring the facts. And I find your "Chinese drill" declaration laughable. Like I said, people criticized Capers for not making changes and when he did, he got criticized for creating a "Chinese fire drill." Pardon me if I see a ton if disingenuousness in that rather flimsy argument.

Please tell WHAT DID CAPERS DO IN 2004, finish 3rd in the divisin, post a sub par 500 record.....AGAIN. Constantly get out game planned. Beat absolutely no winning teams, outside of Jax., closed the season by getting smacked around by the Browns (a sneak peak of things to come) and make horrendous offseason moves that killed the team.

You remind me of a old Mad TV skit

"Lowered Expectations"

Hi my name is Bobo and I have no standards for my football team and am pleased with mediocrity and no accountability.

infantrycak
06-05-2006, 08:20 PM
Moulds may be better than Bradford (certainly not Gaffney)

Geez folks, can't you get the drift from statements like this.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:21 PM
Please. 2005 is toast. Turn the page. Stick a fork in it. Or maybe turn the page, then stick the fork in it and the toast.

I find this very interesting, seeing that it's not ME who brings up 2005 -- opr 2002-4, for that matter. I only respond to posts that unfairly blame Capers for everything without acknowledging his many accomplishments. That really, really irks me because it reeks of wanton ignorance of the facts and both unfairly and unjustly smears a man who brought excitement and electricity to this city -- two things I will predict that Kubiak won't even come close to duplicating. So as long as there are folks who insist on bringing up the past four years without giving Capers his due, don't be surprised if I am there to remind folks of what he did accomplish because, once Kubiak starts actually coaching on the field, I would venture a guess and say there won't be too many accomplishments to point to in the long run.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 08:24 PM
I wonder how many other coaches moved tackle from the right side to the left side and nobody made a peep about it? Fact is, Capers DID get it done in 2004 and to ignore his accomplishments during that year is ignoring the facts. And I find your "Chinese drill" declaration laughable. Like I said, people criticized Capers for not making changes and when he did, he got criticized for creating a "Chinese fire drill." Pardon me if I see a ton if disingenuousness in that rather flimsy argument.

so our sacks dropped in 2004 and what happed in 2005? Instead of letting Wand improve (like Pitts did in his 2nd year) we replaced him with a journeyman RT and move him to LT?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:47 PM
so our sacks dropped in 2004 and what happed in 2005? Instead of letting Wand improve (like Pitts did in his 2nd year) we replaced him with a journeyman RT and move him to LT?

The sack problem has always been there and that's because it takes a nice, lonnnnggggg time to put an OL together. Some teams never do it. Look at the Saints. It took them 20 years to put a winning season together. Look at the Bucs. It took them a season and a half to record one win. Look at Arizona. One playoff appearance in how many decades? It seems to me that you are straining at gnats when you blame the OL strugglles on one OL guy at RT instead of LT. I am pretty positive that putting Riley on the left side rather than the right is NOT why the OL struggled their entire existence. And if you don't think they will struggle this year as well, then you are in for a heckuva surprise.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:48 PM
Geez folks, can't you get the drift from statements like this.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

Not a troll by any means -- just a dose of reality.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 08:49 PM
Please tell WHAT DID CAPERS DO IN 2004, finish 3rd in the divisin, post a sub par 500 record.....AGAIN. Constantly get out game planned. Beat absolutely no winning teams, outside of Jax., closed the season by getting smacked around by the Browns (a sneak peak of things to come) and make horrendous offseason moves that killed the team.

You remind me of a old Mad TV skit

"Lowered Expectations"

Hi my name is Bobo and I have no standards for my football team and am pleased with mediocrity and no accountability.

Do you really, REALLY believe that a 7-9 record for a team that didn't even exist three years earlier is bad? And do you really think a defense that only allowed 27 points or more in four games is bad for a team in that situation? And how much better could Capers have been when his team won two road games vs. the Bears and Jax and allowed a combined total of just five points? And as I recall, just about everybody on this board said after the Browns game, "How can you get upset over just one game?" Where are all those folks now? Have they conveniently turned an about face in an effort to support the firing of Capers? It seems like you are either jumping into the thread without being informed or you are ignoring everything I brought out in this thread. Like I said, you might want to do some stretches before you enter the game.

Wolf
06-05-2006, 08:56 PM
The sack problem has always been there and that's because it takes a nice, lonnnnggggg time to put an OL together. Some teams never do it. Look at the Saints. It took them 20 years to put a winning season together. Look at the Bucs. It took them a season and a half to record one win. Look at Arizona. One playoff appearance in how many decades? It seems to me that you are straining at gnats when you blame the OL strugglles on one OL guy at RT instead of LT. I am pretty positive that putting Riley on the left side rather than the right is NOT why the OL struggled their entire existence. And if you don't think they will struggle this year as well, then you are in for a heckuva surprise.
:lol:

:ok:

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 08:58 PM
It seems like you are either jumping into the thread without being informed or you are ignoring everything I brought out in this thread. Like I said, you might want to do some stretches before you enter the game.

No not really, because its the same pointless, delusional argument you always make.

You compare Capers to Cowher-crazy and delusional

You compare Capers to Holmgren-insane

You try to tell us he's a great head coach, when every bit of evidence points otherwise- crazy.

You are the only person on earth (not just Texan fans- NFL fans, media, and anybody else that has a lick of football sense) that feels Capers shouldn't have been fired- crazy

and your going to tell me "I have to do stretches before I enter the game" :francis: Yeah okay, whatever that means.

If I have to do stretches then you have to pass a mental evaluation before they even clear you to play

tsip
06-05-2006, 09:01 PM
I have no problem with losing and mediocrity from a team just four years into their existence. In fact, I expect it! If you don't understand the fact that it takes time to build a consistent winner when you are starting from scratch, then perhaps you should talk to a NO fan. You know how long it took them to get a winning team? Try 20 years. That's right, 20 years. It isn't an easy feat to accomplish. Now, if you are a team with years of SB experience and some Lombardi trophies on your mantle and if you had a record of 13-3 and 11-5 in 2001 and 2002 that's different. I can see how you would be angry about a season where you plummetted to 6-10 in 2003. Using your philosophy, with all the advantages that team had going for them, you would CERTAINLY fire the coach. Uh, oops! You just fired the guy who went 15-1 in 2004 and won the SB in 2005! Umm, doesn't sound like too sound a philosophy to me!

Hell-o, earth to Bobo! Texans were only modern era expansion team not to make playoffs by their 4th year...Texans had the worse 4 yr record and-by far-the worse 4th year.

Scottyboy
06-05-2006, 09:10 PM
5 letters for ol Bobo!!

T-R-O-L-L !!!

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 09:11 PM
Do you really, REALLY believe that a 7-9 record for a team that didn't even exist three years earlier is bad?

When you come out the next season and all your weaknesses become even bigger weaknesses.

then yes I do.

Your defeating your own case for Capers, the fact that the only reason you can bring up to keep Capers is a mediocre 7-9 season, that happened TWO SEASONS AGO, proves that the man did nothing.

The talent on the field got better over the last 4 years, OUR RECORD JUST GOT WORSE.

He was supposed to be a defensive guru and he let a Harvard third stringer, destroy his defense.

just about everybody on this board said after the Browns game, "How can you get upset over just one game?" Where are all those folks now? Have they conveniently turned an about face in an effort to support the firing of Capers.

Where are all those people now, are you serious?

Umm....I don't now maybe those people tunned in last season and watched one of the worst coaching jobs and seasons in the history of the NFL.

Where are those people now....living in the year 2006, not 2004, hashing over a mediocre 7-9 season like we won the superbowl with Dom "my name is not Lombardi" Capers

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:23 PM
When you come out the next season and all your weaknesses become even bigger weaknesses.

then yes I do.

Your defeating your own case for Capers, the fact that the only reason you can bring up to keep Capers is a mediocre 7-9 season, that happened TWO SEASONS AGO, proves that the man did nothing.

The talent on the field got better over the last 4 years, OUR RECORD JUST GOT WORSE.

He was supposed to be a defensive guru and he let a Harvard third stringer, destroy his defense.



Where are all those people now, are you serious?

Umm....I don't now maybe those people tunned in last season and watched one of the worst coaching jobs and seasons in the history of the NFL.

Where are those people now....living in the year 2006, not 2004, hashing over a mediocre 7-9 season like we won the superbowl with Dom "my name is not Lombardi" Capers

If you don't think that a 7-9 record in an expansion year is good, then you are straining the bounds of credulity. That kind of record is far, far from mediocre for a third-year team. Then again, you would be right if you called it mediocre for a team that has been around for awhile, such as the Steelers. Oh, in fact, that so-called "mediocre record" was actually one game better than the Steelers in 2003! So I guess that means that coach should be fired too! Oh ... oops! We all know that story, don't we?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:23 PM
5 letters for ol Bobo!!

T-R-O-L-L !!!

This ain't pro wrestling. Failure to respond to the post duly noted.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:25 PM
Hell-o, earth to Bobo! Texans were only modern era expansion team not to make playoffs by their 4th year...Texans had the worse 4 yr record and-by far-the worse 4th year.

Um, what about the Saints? Oh, I guess they aren't "modern" are they? And should we talk about all the teams that haven't made more than one or two playoff appearances IN DECADES -- expansion team or not? Seems to me like your point is, well, pretty irrelevant.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:26 PM
No not really, because its the same pointless, delusional argument you always make.

You compare Capers to Cowher-crazy and delusional

You compare Capers to Holmgren-insane

You try to tell us he's a great head coach, when every bit of evidence points otherwise- crazy.

You are the only person on earth (not just Texan fans- NFL fans, media, and anybody else that has a lick of football sense) that feels Capers shouldn't have been fired- crazy

and your going to tell me "I have to do stretches before I enter the game" :francis: Yeah okay, whatever that means.

If I have to do stretches then you have to pass a mental evaluation before they even clear you to play

Calling a comparison "insane" is not dealing with the issue. Failure to deal with the comparison duly noted. You just tapped out.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:27 PM
:lol:

:ok:

I'll take that as a tap out.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 09:28 PM
Does anybody find anything ironic with this statement.

Bobo with every post you put up, you appear to be a bigger fool.

Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.

Second Honeymoon
06-05-2006, 09:30 PM
Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.

I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.

I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .

"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."

Well, that's informative.:rolleyes: But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.

There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.

Accountability. Accountability. Accountability. During the previous regime, a culture of apologism permeated the whole team. No one was ever held accountable for shortcomings and outright failures. Babin, PBuc, Ragone, Joppru, Hollins, and most importantly Carr are all at this point complete disappointments and we dont even know who wanted who. And the lack of honesty that has been displayed by this team since its inception contributes to that fact. Its bad karma not being honest with yourself and your fans.

Does Casserley have compromising pictures of McNair or something? The fact that that guy got to preside alongside the new regime at the last draft was an embarassment and on the days leading up to draft day were a testament to how community college that guy is...get the deal done loser...you resign carr and then dont even draft bush? omg what a flatliner. Here is what should have happened post 2-14...

Capers and Casserley should have both been fired the day after the season
Carr's option not picked up and admit that it was a bad draft pick
You hire Al Saunders and draft Vince Young
You have Tony Banks play the first few games of year so VY isnt just thrown to the dogs Week 1
You resign Wells (one of the few guys that showed heart in backfield and special teams)
You hire the guy that Al Saunders wants to run the front office

If you do that, this city is on fire right now. What do we have now? Another season where we are expected to actually be optimistic about a team whose ownership isnt even honest with their own fans or themselves. Call me crazy but at least Bud Adams did whatever it takes to get the best team on the field..did it always work? no but at least he was honest when it didnt and wouldnt try and sugarcoat everythign so as not to hurt peoples feelings or make the organization look bad....2-14 was bad, the organization already looks bad....fire people when they fail and you show accountability to the players that actually perform and arent overpaid cretins

I hope for the best this year in my heart, but logic tells me to get ready for another embarassment of a season. I just hope when Carr stinks up the joint for the 5th straight year, we dont keep making excuses for the kid....let another team tap his 'potential'...i want a winner

VY FTW

doug from the woodlands

FILO_girl
06-05-2006, 09:40 PM
I just hope when Carr stinks up the joint for the 5th straight year, we dont keep making excuses for the kid....let another team tap his 'potential'...i want a winner

VY FTW

doug from the woodlands

Oh lord, I thought I heard a familiar squeeky wheel coming around the bend.
Darn bandwagons. This one is worse than the 'other bandwagon'.

I hope the VY bandwagon gets a blow out soon. Oy.:rolleyes:
Hey, were you banned dude? Remember your rhetoric and identity, but sure is a new screen name. :spy:

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 09:41 PM
Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.

3. Turning the Texans into Broncos south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.


So there ya go Bobo, I acknowledged your point of view without agreeing to it. Let's agree to disagree on some of these points.

Ultimately, decisions have already been made. Bobo doesn't like em, others do. It is like anything in life, people disagree. Bobo isn't excited about next season, at least 14,000 people who showed up at Reliant Stadium this weekend in June are and many more.

Personally, I don't care for piling on Capers any more either, but c'mon everyone, let's move on and try to stay forward focused. The new stuff we are doing might work immediately, might take a while to implement, or might not work at all.

We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league.

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 09:56 PM
Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.

It's gonna be a long summer
---
It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.

No, it's like they were playing as if they were in the second week of training camp, but it was in reality week 10+ of the regular season. A rudderless ship rarely gets to where it's meant to go.

tsip
06-05-2006, 10:03 PM
"We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league."

...ok, so what is a forum or blog for? What is the reality now? And who determines what the reality is? I've noticed there is far more traffic here when there is controversy and difference of opinion than when everything is ststus quo. JMO, but I don't think you can turn a forum/blog on/off based on one persons opinion.

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:04 PM
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna. :D

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.

There have been several comments made in this board about injuries that resulted from poor management of practice and game management from coaches. I haven't seen any information to prove that but it's one thing to consider. I think in the NFL today coaching is far more complex than we could ever imagine and it's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the schedule coaches control regarding player practice and game participation could impact injuries. I think part of good coaching is good management of player activity on the field.....big picture, not just on gameday.

Second Honeymoon
06-05-2006, 10:05 PM
Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.
1a. Smith is young, talented, and experienced. Add the fact that he is a black NFL executive and you hit the proverbial home run. I like having a qualified minority as GM, it at least shows we can think progressively.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.
2a. Very true, I do like the fact he played QB and knows that it aint all lollipops and rainbows.

3. Turning the Texans into Bronco's south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.
3a. This always happens when you try and migrate a system between teams. It took a while for Holmgren to get things rolling but did eventually get to the SB, whereas Mariucci fell flat on his butt in Detroit. It all comes down to talent in the end and with Carr behind center I aint holding my breath for a Holmgren like scenario.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.
It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.
The Texans used to keep things close in the past and lose close games but last year they were embarassed in quite a few of the games and basically quit

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.
Capers did a horrible job developing talent which was why he was brought in to coach an expansion team. Very few players have improved under Caper's regime..in some cases players regressed

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.
I actually am optimistic about Moulds' because the Bills have been in as bad of a tailspin as the Texans. I think a new start could be really beneficial to him as well as our team, I do worry about injuries on him though..he is at that age that WR's start breakin down

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.
We dont even have a proven NFL Franchise type QB much less depth

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.
I agree with that 199%


I agree that what we got is what we got and its reality, but I think we also need to have a vision to the past so that we dont repeat past failures and we can lay praise AND blame on those responsible. Lets just stop coddling everyone and acting like things are great. We lack depth at every skill position and look to be gaining depth on both lines. it is a longterm recipe for success but I just dont know if longterm strategies can even be used in the NFL anymore. It is a fast moving high turnover league nowadays with even the most successful franchises shuttling players in and out yearly ad not worrying about people's feelings getting hurt or reputations damaged. I just want to win and I hope and pray this hometown kid can make dreams come true in Houston

doug from the woodlands

- wasnt banned or anything, i just lost password and the dang forum wouldnt send me my pw, so i had to create a new account. -

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:05 PM
Bobo has actually some defendable opinions in this thread, it is the overstatements in his posts that cause the trollfest.

Things that I think could be legit concerns/questions of Bobo's (thought I would try to defend a lot of them much differently) are:

1. Smith is young. Smith could be a rubberstamp for a mostly young staff.

2. Kubiak does not have a track record as a head coach so we won't know what will happen.

3. Turning the Texans into Broncos south might be too hard to do and sometimes these experiments do not work.

4. It is hard to coach an expansion team.

5. The Texans did not quit in 2005--you can lose games without being quitters.

6. Capers did a commendable job with what he had and that quality offensive lines are hard to put together in a short period of time.

7. Possible questions about Moulds' production in a new system.

8. Possible questions about depth at the QB position.

9. It is unfair to blame everything that went wrong last year on Capers.


So there ya go Bobo, I acknowledged your point of view without agreeing to it. Let's agree to disagree on some of these points.

Ultimately, decisions have already been made. Bobo doesn't like em, others do. It is like anything in life, people disagree. Bobo isn't excited about next season, at least 14,000 people who showed up at Reliant Stadium this weekend in June are and many more.

Personally, I don't care for piling on Capers any more either, but c'mon everyone, let's move on and try to stay forward focused. The new stuff we are doing might work immediately, might take a while to implement, or might not work at all.

We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league.

Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 10:09 PM
"We can talk about what woulda coulda shoulda happened, but all we have is what the reality is now and maybe we should focus on this. And if you hate it, well then, there are 31 other teams in the league."

...ok, so what is a forum or blog for? What is the reality now? And who determines what the reality is? I've noticed there is far more traffic here when there is controversy and difference of opinion than when everything is ststus quo. JMO, but I don't think you can turn a forum/blog on/off based on one persons opinion.

I kinda like this explanation: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=361470#post361470

We have always had more lurkers than registered members. The longer we have kept this place 'family friendly' the more lurkers and members we seem to attract as each month and year passes. I've been a bit amazed with our traffic to tell the truth, but it just further proves the point that if you run a clean, no bully, no troll, no nonsense NFL fan society board, football fans will tune in and stay tuned in. Yeah, there are problems here and there, but we break up the problems as they pop up and it is impossible to keep anonymous people 100% responsible in a real-time environment.

Also, as a lurker, you cannot see anything but football talk/forums. Our site doesn't focus on anything but football unless you join, so the focus stays squarely on football and doesn't come across as some nilly-willy party board full of kids. I think we have a ton of media, fans, Houstonians and football fans in general lurking here since we keep it friendly, on-topic and peaceful.

well, thats my .02 cents


Ultimately, if this thread turns too ridiculous, it will get locked. My post was just an attempt to reduce the WWE aspects of the thread.

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 10:12 PM
Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

Apologies. Just an attempt at trying to understand where you were coming from. I think I understand better now.

Have a lovely evening.

Lucky
06-05-2006, 10:13 PM
...a man who brought excitement and electricity to this city --
Mr. Excitement
http://cache.boston.com/sports/galleries/2003patriots/game11/18.jpg

Feel the Electricity!!!
http://www.covers.com/images/2005/180x180/capers_dom051216.jpg

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:13 PM
Did Capers say this or are you putting words into his mouth? I would guess it would be the latter. And your "bottom line" assessment was way out to lunch. You seem to make assertions without any facts to back you up. Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

This is an opinion. This is not a fact. There are no facts in the above quote. Before you call something a fact, please look up the word in a dictionary. Ask your local librarian if you need further assistance.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 10:14 PM
There have been several comments made in this board about injuries that resulted from poor management of practice and game management from coaches. I haven't seen any information to prove that but it's one thing to consider. I think in the NFL today coaching is far more complex than we could ever imagine and it's not unreasonable to consider the possibility that the schedule coaches control regarding player practice and game participation could impact injuries. I think part of good coaching is good management of player activity on the field.....big picture, not just on gameday.

Right on I agree. I don't talk about that much though because it's so hard to know what is going on in practice. Meaning you can compare teams where you see them play all the time in a semi-controlled setting of a game, but practice? No telling what different teams do.

One thing is for certain though... the more you play, the greater your chance of being injured in a given year. Super Bowl teams typically have more injuries in the next season. So if games do it, practice certainly can add to it.

( can't blame it on the Astroturf though! LOL... one for the old folks )

EDIT:

And dammit I said BLOWN not blow ... BLOWN. Pack yer bags editor. I am sending you to Miami to rehab with Saban.

Texans_Chick
06-05-2006, 10:17 PM
It is HARD to coach an expansion team?!?! cmon now, now that you are writing for the Chronicle, dont let that turn you into a softie..i dont know where to start with that comment, so i wont...

As I said, I was trying to paraphrase what Bobo's main points were. There are certainly rational arguments you can make to support that particular opinion.

BTW, I do not write for the Chronicle. I am not an employee nor do I draw a paycheck. They just host the fanblog.

infantrycak
06-05-2006, 10:31 PM
Umm, most of these opinions or "points" as you call them are certainly not mine, so I don't know what the heck you are talking about. I don't recall criticizing Smith so much on his age as much as he'll be nothing but a rubber stamp. And my criticism of Moulds certainly has NOTHING to do with the "system"! Now maybe that's somebody else's view, but certainly not mine. And I never used the term "Broncos south." I guess you don't read too well. Oh, one more thing. Those 14,000 who showed up at Reliant Stadium recently -- are those the same ones who DIDN'T show up for the last half of the season last year?

Nice job. TC was trying to actually support you and your response is to be rude. Real class act there Titan troll.

Kaiser Toro
06-05-2006, 10:32 PM
Capers Chagrined? So was I. He leaving Houston was a great thing for his career and the Texans, they were an awful match.

Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:33 PM
This is an opinion. This is not a fact. There are no facts in the above quote. Before you call something a fact, please look up the word in a dictionary. Ask your local librarian if you need further assistance.

To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:34 PM
Capers Chagrined? So was I. He leaving Houston was a great thing for his career and the Texans, they were an awful match.

Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

Yeah, right. 7-9 in the team's third year of existence was an awful match. You may very well rue the day he "rode into the sunset" after a few seasons of Kubiak.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:36 PM
Nice job. TC was trying to actually support you and your response is to be rude. Real class act there Titan troll.

Rude or correcting the facts? And I do believe we talked about this "Titan troll" stuff a while back and you agreed it was NOT true.

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:36 PM
If you don't understand the fact that it takes time to build a consistent winner when you are starting from scratch, then perhaps you should talk to a NO fan. You know how long it took them to get a winning team? Try 20 years. That's right, 20 years.

Actually....it took 30 years. And do you know how many coaches they fired in that 30 years?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:38 PM
Mr. Excitement
http://cache.boston.com/sports/galleries/2003patriots/game11/18.jpg

Feel the Electricity!!!
http://www.covers.com/images/2005/180x180/capers_dom051216.jpg

Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:47 PM
Mr. Excitement
http://cache.boston.com/sports/galleries/2003patriots/game11/18.jpg

Feel the Electricity!!!
http://www.covers.com/images/2005/180x180/capers_dom051216.jpg

ROFL...

Kaiser Toro
06-05-2006, 10:47 PM
Yeah, right. 7-9 in the team's third year of existence was an awful match. You may very well rue the day he "rode into the sunset" after a few seasons of Kubiak.

7-9 is one win short of 50%. In fact his whole career in the NFL as a Head Coach he has been below 50%. In most businesses 3 years would be a trend with 12 quarters of data. Here we have 8 years of work and the results show that he is not a successful Head Coach at this level. But hey you may not measure success with the number in the win column.

You point to 7-9 as the benchmark year. And I will say that is unacceptable. Of course you will amplify that with Expansion. Then I will come back and say he went to the Championship with Carolina and this shows that it was a fluke because that was his only winning season. Then you and I will be done with our dialogue in this thread.

infantrycak
06-05-2006, 10:47 PM
Rude or correcting the facts? And I do believe we talked about this "Titan troll" stuff a while back and you agreed it was NOT true.

Nice try at making up facts. The only thing which has changed this evening was in addition to thinking you are an annoying troll, it is now clear you are a rude annoying troll.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 10:47 PM
Calling a comparison "insane" is not dealing with the issue. Failure to deal with the comparison duly noted. You just tapped out.

Thats funny, that kind of talk is reserved for someone who's actually winning a argument, not someone who's being made a fool, by the entire board.

Me calling you insane, is me calling you insane, you know as in someone without reason that makes no sense.

Your statements make no sense, they are insane.

btw we weren't in a expansion year during the 7-9 record and please for the love of god let that go that was 2 years ago and it wasn't even a winning record.

A 7-9 record doesn't afford you to go 2-14 and keep your job

Brandon420tx
06-05-2006, 10:47 PM
Hmm. Seems to me there is no football content here whatsoever. I'll take that as an admission of surrender.

Who comes on a message board with the mindset to make other posters quit posting? Thats counter-productive in my opinion, but then again some of your post don't produce much productivity, they could even be viewed as attempts to hinder the message board.

I agree with the posters who think that Capers should be a dead topic on this board, we're entering a new era. We're basically trudging around in the dark searching for info about our team, but at least the HC is setting out a lot of oil lamps for us to wander towards. One thing you can't say about Kubiak, is that he hasn't been active this off-season.


Oh, and I'll add this for "football content",

During a fieldgoal, a longsnapper (a person who tries to snap the football a considerable distance accurately to the holder) launches the ball the holder (Self explanatory, the holder holds the ball so that its just right for the kicker) who does his darndest to catch it an position the ball so that when the kicker (Kicks the ball towards the 2 goal posts as hard as he can while trying to keep the ball from veering too far to the left or right) pelts the ball, it will go straight ahead and through the up-rights. Shwing!


Brandon from the katy area.

Lucky
06-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.
I love the Texans, Bobo. Love them. Attended many, many games (not all). But it's been the fans that have brought the lion's share of excitement at Reliant. Capers' unimaginative offense and passive defense made the Texans the most unwatchable team in the NFL. It pains me to say that. Hopefully, that's about to change.

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 10:48 PM
Let the man ride into the sunset, his work is thankfully done here and soon his limited legacy will sunset as well.

Ahh Grasshopper... if it was only that easy. He's still young and he has many friends. We see him week 4 for a showdown on Reliant turf. I am not really wanting to type this because we got a Phin in the water so to speak, but if Saban takes it to the house with Capers on board... it's gonna sting.


From Jaguar HQ

Scot from Jacksonville: I understand and respect the importance of history and NFL pioneers, but if you were to take them out of contention and consider, say, the 1980's or 1990's onward, who would be the revolutionaries, relatively speaking, as far as players and coaches go?
Vic: Bill Walsh is the first name that would come to mind, but he had introduced a lot of the concepts of his west coast offense as Paul Brown's offensive coordinator, so, who gets the credit? Vic Fangio and Dom Capers and all of the zone-blitz boys revolutionized defense. I'm not ready to say Bill Belichick is a pioneer because when did teamwork become a revolutionary concept? I won't give Belichick credit for cutting veterans in favor of young players for the purpose of saving salary cap money because long ago coaches traded veterans for draft choices and replaced those veterans with young players. There's only so much that can be invented before everything's been invented. The pioneers had an open field. Walsh is the most revolutionary coach of the last 25 years. Lawrence Taylor is the most revolutionary player.

Walsh, then Brown, followed by Capers.... yes it makes me giggle... but hey!

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:51 PM
To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

I'll take that vague difference. The point is, it's not a "fact" which you said it was so you admit that you were wrong.

Admission noted.

bayoudreamn
06-05-2006, 10:53 PM
Obviously someone who did NOT attend games in the last four years.

I agree. The pictures above this quote were pictures of capers....obviously someone who hasn't been attending games the last few years.

Kaiser Toro
06-05-2006, 10:57 PM
Ahh Grasshopper... if it was only that easy. He's still young and he has many friends. We see him week 4 for a showdown on Reliant turf. I am not really wanting to type this because we got a Phin in the water so to speak, but if Saban takes it to the house with Capers on board... it's gonna sting.


From Jaguar HQ

.

Walsh, then Brown, followed by Capers.... yes it makes me giggle... but hey!

You cannot deny his legacy in the NFL for his schemes as an assistant coach. However, in the land of the Houston Texans we know of him as Head Coach and that is how the discourse goes down here. We do not disrespect the man nor his work prior to him being the HC here, but we do cast some soft venom his way when we think about the product that was put on the field and could not execute, specifically on his great defensive scheme.

He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 10:58 PM
I agree. The pictures above this quote were pictures of capers....obviously someone who hasn't been attending games the last few years.

Not much of a response, seeing that everyone that has been following the thread knew exactly what the gist of the matter was.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 11:01 PM
You cannot deny his legacy in the NFL for his schemes as an assistant coach. However, in the land of the Houston Texans we know of him as Head Coach and that is how the discourse goes down here. We do not disrespect the man nor his work prior to him being the HC here, but we do cast some soft venom his way when we think about the product that was put on the field and could not execute, specifically on his great defensive scheme.

He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

Where were you in 2004? I don't recall these kinds of comments from ANYBODY on this board or anywhere, for that matter, following that season. You can criticize 2005 all you want, but if you do that without giving him credit for what he did in 2002-4 is simply disingenuous, unfair and unjust.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 11:09 PM
Where were you in 2004?

Where were you in 1989, I was rocking in the New Year at some skating ring....:crazy:

This is the NFL, your only as good as your last season, especially when you go 2-14 and all your schemes are a extreme failure week in and week out.

Before you say Holmgren, Cowher, or any other Head Coach that doesn't deserve being compared to Capers, They actually had a history of winning. A history of winning affords you to have a down season now and then. Capers has a history of losing and this argument is so stupid I think I'm losing brain cells. I can't believe I'm sitting here trying to convince a Texan fan Capers should've been fired, its beyond me and then you have the nerve to question if some fans watched games last year. Did you happen to push pause on your "2004" season replays and actually tune in to see a game last year?

Bobo
06-05-2006, 11:19 PM
Where were you in 1989, I was rocking in the New Year at some skating ring....:crazy:

This is the NFL, your only as good as your last season, especially when you go 2-14 and all your schemes are a extreme failure week in and week out.

Before you say Holmgren, Cowher, or any other Head Coach that doesn't deserve being compared to Capers, They actually had a history of winning. A history of winning affords you to have a down season now and then. Capers has a history of losing and this argument is so stupid I think I'm losing brain cells. I can't believe I'm sitting here trying to convince a Texan fan Capers should've been fired, its beyond me and then you have the nerve to question if some fans watched games last year. Did you happen to push pause on your "2004" season and actually tune in to see a game last year?

Capers had a history of success with a franchise from scratch from 2002-4 and if you deny that then, well, I guess you are correct -- you are losing brain cells. Can't disagree with that! And you know, I can't believe you wouldn't agree that Capers should be given another chance after one bad season just like Paul Brown, Cowher and Holmgren had. They all had bad seasons and they were all given a chance to bounce back -- and they did exactly that. Oh, nobody is denying that the 2005 season was a setback. But the 2003 season for the Steelers was a setback as well. FYI, I was there at every game -- something an awful lot of so-called Texans fans who had season tickets and didn't even bother to show up can't say. To this day, I can't believe folks would actually spend money for tickets -- and those tickets aren't cheap, mind you -- and then not even bother to show up and use what they paid for! And what's even more incredible, these so-called "fans" began to abandon the team before the season even hit the halfway mark! To this day, I am still incredulous about that. And as I have also said before, I felt really bad about every single loss -- possibly even worse than Capers, if that's possible. But I was also there for 2002-4 and the excitement and electricity this man brought to Reliant Stadium. Yeah, I was there when the stadium was rocking and forced all kinds of delay of game penalties. And I was there when Capers gave the game ball to the fans. My memory is not short as is apparently the case of many others. And since I remember 2002-4, it was only just that Capers should have been given the same chance that Paul Brown, Mike Holmgren and Cowher received to right the ship after all he had accomplished with a team from scratch. Two sad things about that: A.) He was never given that chance B.) I doubt that same excitement and electricity will be in Reliant Stadium for many, many years to come.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2006, 11:33 PM
Capers had a history of success with a franchise from scratch from 2002-4

:listening

A 16-32 record is not success, it was good enough to keep his job over the offseason, but the 2-14 season where his defensive players came out and spoke against his 3-4 scheme, which was supposed to be his bread and butter got him fired.

Its that lowered expectations thing again.

You need to raise your expectations of this team, if you except mediocrity you will always be mediocre.

I can't believe you wouldn't agree that Capers should be given another chance after one bad season just like Paul Brown, Cowher and Holmgren had.

Believe it and for the love of God stop comparing Capers to great coaches, your doing a disservice to them. Capers doesn't even compare.

Some things are inexcusable and the 2-14 season he put up was unexceptable.

Bill Callahan coached the Radiers to a superbowl, but the season that followed was unexceptable. a 16-32 record followed by a 2-14 season would get any coach in this league fired, get over it or become a Dolphins fan

TwinSisters
06-05-2006, 11:46 PM
He has a body of work that cannot be denied for better or for worse. Unfortunatley the audience here had to suffer the worse part, please pardon our disposition if we seem a little salty.

Ah El Kaiser... there is the rub. To who's hand doth the salt pure forth?

If such a hand could sparkle with silver in a year's time, should not the wise lay blame on one that would surely not? Be you confused as you may by your disposition; pardon the hand that may not be empty for it could return and place misfortune on the hand that would surely not.

Texans86
06-05-2006, 11:51 PM
Where were you in 2004? I don't recall these kinds of comments from ANYBODY on this board or anywhere, for that matter, following that season. You can criticize 2005 all you want, but if you do that without giving him credit for what he did in 2002-4 is simply disingenuous, unfair and unjust.

I love how you take Capers record in 2002 through 2004 and say he was a great coach. I agree with you that Capers had one of the hardest jobs in the NFL in taking on an expansion team in the salary cap era. It's a tough business. However, on many other posts you say that our coaching staff is extremely inexperienced, and have noted Mike Sherman's 4-12 record last season, showing that he obviously must be bad. However, his 12-4, 12-4, 10-6 and 10-6 seasons from 2001-2004 mean nothing. One logic for an argument cannot also be used against it in another situation just to help prove your point. If 16-32 is successful to you, so be it, but our new coaching staff has a coach who had eight more wins in half as many seasons. Capers is not coming back to Houston, unless he is another team's colors. It may be a hard pill to swallow, but that's how it is. Nearly everyone else is showing their support for the team, however I have hear nothing but negative comments from you. Everything they do is wrong by your standards. I'm not sure if they fired the entire coaching staff and re-hired everyone from last year if you'd be happy. Some here are overly optomistic, but also there are some who are reasonable with their expectations, such as another losing season next year, and another rough start. We're undefeated right now, soak it up.

Bobo
06-05-2006, 11:51 PM
:listening

A 16-32 record is not success, it was good enough to keep his job over the offseason, but the 2-14 season where his defensive players came out and spoke against his 3-4 scheme, which was supposed to be his bread and butter got him fired.

Its that lowered expectations thing again.

You need to raise your expectations of this team, if you except mediocrity you will alway be mediocre.



Believe it and for the love of God stop comparing Capers to great coaches, your doing a disservice to them. Capers doesn't even compare.

Some things are inexcusable and the 2-14 season he put up was unexceptable.

Bill Callahan coached the Radiers to a superbowl, but the season that followed was unexceptable. a 16-32 record followed by a 2-14 season would get any coach in this league fired, get over it or become a Dolphins fan

When you are dealing with an expansion team in its early years, winning ANY games is a success. Just ask the Tampa Bay Bucs if you doubt that. A record of 7-9 for an expansion team is far, far from mediocre, as I have said on many occasions and which I firmly believe you assent to but for some reason won't say so publicly as is the case with many folks. Speaking of the 3-4, I don't know why you speak about it with such venom when there are a lot of NFL teams that are using it, including the NE Pats from what I understand -- and they have won a few Super Bowls, as I recall. And if you dare compare apples to apples, the comparison between Capers and the three coaches I mention is legit. The situations are similar in every instance, even though you may not want to acknowledge that. A 3-10-1 record didn't get Paul Brown fired, and two years later he won his division. BTW, this has nothing to do with "becoming a Dolphin fan" but has everything to do with fairness and justice. The guy was simply not treated fairly and to this day his accomplishments with this team have not been acknowledged. I have no problem with folks who criticize Capers 2005 season. I mean, after all, if he went 14-2 he would get a good chunk of the credit so if you go 2-14 you deserve a good chunk of the blame as well. And I'm sure even Capers would agree with that. However, Cowher deserved a good deal of blame for the team going from 13-3 in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- yet he wasn't fired and he had a heckuva lot more advantages going for him in regards to infrastructure and experience on his team than Capers did. Yet Capers is the one that got fired. Not right and not fair and not just. So, criticize Capers all you want for 2005. I have no problem with that and I'm sure he wouldn't either. But to not give him credit for 2002-4 is being revisionist, unfair and unjust to a man who has been unfairly maligned and, yes, mistreated after bringing an excitement and electricity to Houston that the city may never experience again for years and years to come.

tsip
06-06-2006, 12:08 AM
"Ultimately, if this thread turns too ridiculous, it will get locked. My post was just an attempt to reduce the WWE aspects of the thread."
__________________
WOW! Thanks for the warning, guess I'll take your advice and try another board...outa here

Carr Bombed
06-06-2006, 12:12 AM
When you are dealing with an expansion team in its early years, winning ANY games is a success. Just ask the Tampa Bay Bucs if you doubt that. A record of 7-9 for an expansion team is far, far from mediocre.

The Bucs played in a different Era, where there wasn't really FA or a Salary Cap, or a good expansion draft bad argument.

The 7-9 record didn't get him fired, the 2005 season did and I'm tired of saying that, get off the 7-9 record, it wasn't good enough from saving him from a 2-14 season.

Speaking of the 3-4, I don't know why you speak about it with such venomwhen there are a lot of NFL teams that are using it, including the NE Pats from what I understand -- and they have won a few Super Bowls, as I recall.

Now your trying to put words in my mouth, stop it. When did I speak about the 3-4 with such venom, please show me.

Capers and the three coaches I mention is legit.

No its not. The other Coaches already had great success where they coached their teams to Superbowls, won Superbowls/championships, in some cases and had great success in proven systems. When you do that you are allowed a down year when your going through a transition and building your team for another run, (Cowher, btw 6-10 is a scream from 2-14 and is one win less than your savior's golden season).

if he went 14-2 he would get a good chunk of the credit so if you go 2-14 you deserve a good chunk of the blame as well. And I'm sure even Capers would agree with that.

Finally your making sense, 2-14 gets you fired in this league, especially when your constantly being out coached, we had the most predictable team last year, tv analyst were calling out our plays.


However, Cowher deserved a good deal of blame for the team going from 13-3 in 2001 to 6-10 in 2003 -- yet he wasn't fired

Superbowl and AFC Championship appearences and a proven system of football allows you that luxury. Why do you think Fisher hasn't been fired yet, He's a proven winner as a Head Coach, Capers is not.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-06-2006, 12:24 AM
Oh but Capers was "on the cust of an 8-8 season"
Yes we would have had a mediocre season in 2004 had we not been embarassed by the browns

jerek
06-06-2006, 12:48 AM
I was wondering how this thread packed in another four pages in as many hours since I last looked at it.

Then the answer came to me.

Bobo.

You are persistent if nothing else, dude.

Brandon420tx
06-06-2006, 12:56 AM
I was wondering how this thread packed in another four pages in as many hours since I last looked at it.

Then the answer came to me.

Bobo.

You are persistent if nothing else, dude.

I got on about an hour ago and saw a thread with 7 (Now 8) pages that I had never seen before, I clicked it to see what day it was posted and was shocked to see it say "4 hours", so my conclusion, its not that he's persistant, he just has nothing better to do.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-06-2006, 02:50 AM
And because of all the veterans and their high price tags the panthers went south quick.

U4ikrob
06-06-2006, 09:22 AM
To say "Capers played to not lose" without saying "IMO" is an accusation, not an opinion. And it seems to me that it was I who questioned the veracity of the statement and its factual content, not vice versa.

Actually hes talking about you Bobo and your assertion of facts - not mine.

Here's some much-repeated facts that you seem to have forgotten: Capers took a team from scratch to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years, including two road games vs. Jax and the Bears where that defense you criticize so much allowed just five points total in those two games. I think that kind of "style" is something ANY team could use more of.

I think statements are not facts Bobo - those are opinions just like mine.

And as to your query - Sorry it took me a bit to find the quote again -

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=221208023

It was David Carr whom said that quote about the team - not Capers. My mistake. However the statement I asserted is still true - the statement was made about the team - in this case by a player - its QB - Whom made thes statements about how he saw things on the field after a win. I'm inclined to go with his opinion as its closer to the source [Capers] than I am personally. That "Playing Not to lose" mentality sure came out in alot of Capers playcalling and coaching over his 4 years here though. I think a good example of that was the Cardinals game where David was allowed to call his own plays and led the offense to score 24 pts. But then the coaches took over and they never scored again - to me this totally reflects the "Not loose" mentality.

Just like you bobo - im allowed an opinion based on the perceptions I know about, have witnessed, watched or become informed of - but the bottom line is facts are independant of either of our opinions Bobo. - Thats a fact.

So bobo how is it you see a defense that averaged giving up 25 points in 0 4its most succesfull season as a good thing in development as a team? IT was certainly not improvement from before and it didnt get better in 05 either. I'm not comparing us to other franchises for comparison either, I'm just looking at performance on the field after 4 years of dev time. IMO in 04 the team had momentum and was building forward, but the coaches showed little faith in what got them there and totally changed schemes. The team was never the same afterward.

One more thing - I didnt say anything about Capers accomplishing nothing with the team. I know full well what hes done - unless youve forgotten ive watched the games too and attended training camp along with speaking to the man myself on more than one occasion. He obviously didnt do everything wrong here, nor am I trying to paint with that brush - so dont insinuate that. I talked about his problems with defense as it was his forte and his in-ability to get things done here. As stated above I thought he was a good man, but his philosophy on football didnt work here. Its one thing to say hey were an expansion team - we need time to develop depth, chemistry, schemes, etc etc... But after 4 years of cooking the defense - we come out worse than we start - thats regression. He had more than one chance with this team to get his specialty the defensive squad at least moving forward, yet even the veterans on the team started speaking out against the schemes and coaching to the point ownership had to become involved and make a business decision for its future.

Just to throw in some past perspective.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/12/28/archive/main26301.shtml

This is Capers second time as a Head coach with a new franchise, the hope was he had learned from his past mistakes when he was hired here to start up this one. Unfortunately he had similar results as Carolina did here with the Texans. They said they were going tochange things and use a different plan, but Capers used almost the same blueprint as before - vets on defense, rookies on Offense and well we all know those results - pretty much the same as before again. Is that coincidence or is it part of Capers philosophy as a coach. My 2 cents is its alot of the latter.

ATX_Texan
06-06-2006, 10:49 AM
This is Capers second time as a Head coach with a new franchise, the hope was he had learned from his past mistakes when he was hired here to start up this one. Unfortunately he had similar results as Carolina did here with the Texans. They said they were going tochange things and use a different plan, but Capers used almost the same blueprint as before - vets on defense, rookies on Offense and it came out almost the same way again. Is that coincidence or is it part of Capers philosophy as a coach

This is my biggest complaint about Capers is that he never seemed to learn from his mistakes or was willing to change from his basic philosphy.

In Carolina, he created a new team around a veteran defense and tried to build the offense using the draft with the hope that the defense would tow the line until the offense caught up. Kerry Collins was sent out to learn on the fly behind a pretty poor line (though better than what C&C put together in Houston). The Panthers had a great deal of success in the second year based mainly on the success of the defense. However, the wheels came off soon after that when age and injuries ruined the defense. The offense never succeeded with the ultraconservative game plan and eventually the young quaterback burned out.

Did Capers learn from these mistakes? In a word, NO. Again, he built a veteran laden defense around a young offense. The difference was that the defense was ravaged by injuries in the second year this time around. Again, the offense stagnated under his "play not to lose philosphy". To compound his past mistakes, Capers even brought in his old buddy Pendry from his Carolina days and it was not a surprise to see another young quaterback regress just as before.

I believe Capers is a good defensive coordinator who can mold a good of veteran players into a pretty effective defensive in a relatively short time. His problem lies in the ability to teach younger players. Once injuries robbed the Texans of thier veteran leadership and he had to rely on the younger guys, Capers could not get them to run his defense. On offense, Capers has no clue and he does not seem to care. He never got past "Defense wins championships" and "there are three things that can happen when you pass and two of them are bad" philosphy.

His record with the Panthers is very much like that of that of the Texans. If don't learn from your mistakes, it is pretty certain that history will repeat itself and Capers is living proof of that.

SESupergenius
06-06-2006, 11:03 AM
A.) Banks was cut and Ragone was the #2 guy at the time ole Sage was brought in, so let's not try to make this bad move sound better by claiming it was a Banks for Rosenfels trade.The fact remains, Kubiak & company cut Banks. Kubiak was hired in Jan, Banks was released in Feb. So I don't know what you thinking but essentially Kubiak replaced Banks with Rosenfels. Sorry, you lose again.


B.) I quoted you the stats regarding Wells and Smith. Assuming you hadn't heard, Smith has washed out four separate times after being a first rounder. As a sub, Wells is just as good as Smith and proved it by what he did vs. the Cardinals.And I quoted you Wells and Smiths stats as well, Smith had a higher yards per carry than Wells did last year. What are you not getting? He also brings better clubhouse intangibles that Wells can not. Just because Smith has been with a few teams over the years doesn't mean he's bad. I don't think Wells is even on a team right now so he isn't allowed to be labled as a "washout", we'll have to wait until the start of training camps to officially label his as a "has been". Trust me, he isn't pushing anyone to be a starter. I'd be surprised if he even made a team this year. That's a pretty weak argument you are making for a player who played the worst team last year and won't be picked up by anyone.

I do believe that Gaffney was ahead of Bradford on the depth chart last year, and you could make a weak argument that Moulds may be better than Bradford (certainly not Gaffney) but that argument gets shot to heck when you look at the boatload of money the Texans paid for a quitter who was suspended for conduct detrimental to the team last year, not to mention many of his #s are in decline. Gaffney was given a chance last season after 3 unsuccessful attempts to displace Bradford and Gaffney pretty much feel way short. I don't even see how you can compare Moulds vs Gaffney, Moulds is a 3 time Pro Bowler. Decline? He had a very miniscule slide in production of a whopping 208 yards and 2 TD's from the last two years compared to the previous 2 years. Did you factor in that the production loss is attested to a new coach and scheme (who is no longer with the team) and a new QB (who is fighting just to keep is starting job)? Even so, he production numbers speak for themselves, Moulds doubled the production of Gaffney, a guy who pushing a guy who had 1 total TD last year in Philadelphia. And as far as your whole "detrimental to the team" take, well it plain as day that it wasn't, Moulds returned from that suspension in top form, finishing with 27 catches for 305 yards and a touchdown in the final three games and Mularkey was sent packing. Moulds was a cap casualty. Head coaches are not cap casualties, they are performance casualties, so Moulds may have been in the right (see Jaime Sharper).


Also, I believe it's a stretch to bring in pass receiving for fullbacks into this argument since, with the Texans, the first order of business would be TO KEEP FOLKS OFF CARR and to open holes for Davis. Besides, Davis is the guy Carr would go to out of the backfield. With any kind of rush coming on Carr, I can't actually believe you would send both the fullback AND the tailback AND the TE out on pass routes. That kind of strategy will cause the necessity to challenge Rosenfels's mettle very, very early on in the season.You can believe what you want, but it is what it is. Kubiak brings proven philosophy from way back in the days of Bill Walsh, utilizing every weapon available, something that Capers was unable to do. This is just facts.

oh and as far as your comparision to Cowher of Capers, your comparison of Capers 13-3 to 6-10 is off base considering that Cowher had already established himself as a a solid coach through the years, something that Capers hasn't. Cowher estabished a winner percentage of 67% his 1st 4 years after previous coach Chuck Noll notched only 47% his last 4 years. Capers' best year was a good one, but certainly not a trend nor in the neighborhood of Cowhers. If you saw the games last year you could just tell that the team had lost all confidence and wasn't playing with heart, something that is a direct reflection of the coaching staff. Once you lose that, just like he did with Carolina, it's extremely hard to get it back. Capers' biggest foley has always been his offense and it showed its head here in Texas.

Now turn around and grab your ankles because you've just been smacked. :whip:

Double Barrel
06-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Geez folks, can't you get the drift from statements like this.

STOP FEEDING THE TROLL!!!

What we have here is a failure to communicate!

Please, allow me to illustrate Mr. infantrycak's statement:

:fishing: <---Bobo

^
^
Bobo's posts trying to hook you (the poster)

Perhaps this illustration is lost on a few of you, so please grant me one more image, and easy-to-understand road sign:

http://uplink.space.com/attachments/270850-DoNotFeedTroll.jpg

rafterticket
06-06-2006, 12:53 PM
Wow, I'm trying to catch up with this thread, and I just realized this. So, Dom...I mean BOBO, go back to work and get your defense together in Miami. You don't have time to go trolling around these message boards - you have a career to save.

And STOP comparing yourself to Brown, Holmgren and Cowher. Your peer group is named Fontes, Armstrong and Shula (not the good one).

Dom, or Bobo the Clown....whoever you are...STOP comparing Capers to great coaches.