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View Full Version : JJ Moses, still standing?


El Tejano
09-03-2004, 08:58 AM
I know everyone here has their opinions but the preseason is where you show your stuff and this is the only guy I've seen return kicks or punts and do something with the ball. He hasn't returned any back for a TD but he has put the offense in good field position twice already.

Do you think he still gets the nod to be on the team after yesterdays performance? :thumbup

gwallaia
09-03-2004, 09:08 AM
I think we keep him.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 09:26 AM
i think Starling replaces him.

dmt217
09-03-2004, 09:39 AM
I think he'll stay...

edo783
09-03-2004, 10:10 AM
I think he and Starling will be on the team. Who will not be is any ones guess at this point. JJ has showed the solid consitant play that Capers likes and Starling has shown potential at WR, but not near as much at KR.

bckey
09-03-2004, 11:05 AM
JJ Moses should stay. He is the only guy on our team that returned kicks with some zip. Everyone else looked very hesitant and easy pickins to tackle. Especially Starling.

infantrycak
09-03-2004, 11:49 AM
IMO we keep both Starling who has looked good as a WR and excellent on special teams and JJ. Last night JJ had 3 KR's averaging 30 yards. Possibly more importantly the returns were not typical JJ shuck and jive returns--JJ turned up field, showed good vision and on the first return hit an incredibly small hole between two of his blockers. If he can transform into a head up field first, shuck as a last resort guy he may make a significant leap in performance.

texasguy346
09-03-2004, 12:03 PM
I think we keep JJ and Starling. If it means we carry one less player at another position then so be it. JJ is a good KR, and Starling has the dimension of being a quality WR and a good gunner. I also think Matt Murphy might have won a spot on the roster with all his good catches thus far in the preseason. It might mean Holloway won't make the roster though. Guess we'll find out Sunday.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 12:47 PM
So if we keep Starling and J.J. Moses we lose Armstrong?? I don't want to lose Armstrong!! :(

Which of these would end up on the practice squad, thus no playing time on the field??

Armstrong, great hands!
Starling, talented in different positions....lacks what J.J. has in returns though.
J.J. Moses, takes up roster spots and is really only helpful in returns...but no one has proved to do it better than he.

infantrycak
09-03-2004, 12:58 PM
So if we keep Starling and J.J. Moses we lose Armstrong?? I don't want to lose Armstrong!! :(

Nobody is suggesting that. I suspect they are going to keep 6 wr's: AJ, Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, Starling and JJ. Sloan Thomas to the practice squad.

pskinny
09-03-2004, 12:59 PM
There's no way JJ gets cut. Too bad his performance last year was forgotten by some and it took a preseason game to convince them.

I absolutely can't wait until next Sunday the 12th.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 01:03 PM
So we get to have 6 recievers on the depth chart? Okay, I didn't know that. This is definitely fantastic news!!

RTP2110
09-03-2004, 01:20 PM
OT....When is the deadline for final cuts?

infantrycak
09-03-2004, 01:27 PM
OT....When is the deadline for final cuts?

Cuts to 53 man roster are due Sunday.

aj.
09-03-2004, 01:30 PM
I think JJ is still standing and I think Starling makes the final 53 as well.

I hope that whoever said Starling couldn't tackle was watching when he laid the wood to that guy late in the game last night. OK, he didn't wrap him up but it was a great hit.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 01:39 PM
That was an amazing hit. That guy (Starling) never ceases to amaze me. I've been really impressed with him.

scourge
09-03-2004, 01:44 PM
Me too, I'd be shocked if Starling didnt make the team. I have a feeling they'll keep Moses as well...

TEXANS84
09-03-2004, 02:16 PM
but there goes the kicker runnin him down from behind and tacklin him with ease. i wish we could put our high school runnin back from here in the camp back there to return punts chad long. 5'6 150 4.34 10.50 2000 yards rush 8 ypc 28 td. put him in moses uniform one day haha, they would no the differance though, cause hed take one in for sure.

What? Nice ramble.

On your first comment, woudn't you rather him get tackled from behind than head on!!

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 02:25 PM
i haven't seen anything that leads me to believe we are keeping 6 WRs. Starling will beat out Moses purely on versatility. he can contribute as a WR and in special teams, both in returns and as a gunner.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 02:32 PM
i haven't seen anything that leads me to believe we are keeping 6 WRs. Starling will beat out Moses purely on versatility. he can contribute as a WR and in special teams, both in returns and as a gunner.


I haven't seen anything on 6 WRs either. idonno:

Lucky
09-03-2004, 02:44 PM
I haven't seen anything on 6 WRs either. idonno:
Have you seen anything from the Texans that they will only keep 5 WRs? Or how many players at each position the Texans will carry? If you have, would you provide a link?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 02:48 PM
if you watch the games they have a short segment called "Texan's Hold'em." They show Johnson and Bradford as our starters with Gaffney as a backup. Then they show the other WRs fighting for 2 spots. Since we all know Derick Armstrong is going to be our #4 guy there is only 1 spot left, meaning we are keeping 5 total.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 02:51 PM
Moses is a good returner without question but when you have an adequate backup (Starling) who can contribute in more ways (returning, passing game, gunner), you take the guy who gives you more options. That's just the way I see it.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 02:59 PM
They've said in every game that the Texans are going with 5 recievers......6 just sounded very odd to me when someone said the Texans were keeping 6 total. Armstrong is pretty much set and Starling contributes in more ways then one and does a mighty fine job, both at reciever and gunner. Not to mention he does ehhh, so-so at KR/PRer.

I guess if Starling takes that final 5th spot, Moses is gone. Now if Moses takes the spot, Starling will make the practice squad. What do you guys think? Pretty much what I'm saying is that if Moses isn't in the roster...he won't even make it to practice squad but be released. Am I making myself clear??

El Tejano
09-03-2004, 03:03 PM
What? Nice ramble.

On your first comment, woudn't you rather him get tackled from behind than head on!!

That's what I'm talking about!! They catch him from behind but they do it alot. That's what they say about Domanick Davis. I know it is two totally different positions but I think Moses would be better returning punts because he doesn't turn the ball over (muff or fumble). I don't want a non proven rookie back there catching punts. Hey a couple of muffs and fumbles from JLewis and Avion Black cost us a few games in our first season. They played more then KR/PR but they never really contributed either did they?

Lucky
09-03-2004, 03:09 PM
I hope that whoever said Starling couldn't tackle was watching when he laid the wood to that guy late in the game last night. OK, he didn't wrap him up but it was a great hit.
I said that. Well, what I said was that Starling hadn't learned to tackle yet. Congrats to Kendrick on his 1st career NFL preseason tackle.

Really, that play illustrates the need to have a returner that makes good decisions. Mark Jones made a bad decision and should have called for the fair catch. Punt returning in the NFL is not as easy as it apparently looks to some.

SBTexans08
09-03-2004, 03:12 PM
Here's an article that says how many spots are available for each position-CLICK HERE!!! (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/fb/texans/2766618)


5 It is!

Receiver (5)

Per the Houston Chronicle:

Receiver (5)

The top four spots are set with Andre Johnson, Corey Bradford, Jabar Gaffney and Derick Armstrong. It's looking more and more like the Texans will keep five receivers and one of them won't be return specialist J.J. Moses. The Texans appear to be looking for more versatility out of the final receiver spot, and the fact Jabar Gaffney can field punts and Kendrick Starling can handle kickoffs gives the team more options. Seventh-round pick Sloan Thomas could be in the mix, but the practice squad also is an option.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 03:12 PM
Starling returned kicks in college so it really isn't anything new to him.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-03-2004, 03:14 PM
"The top four spots are set with Andre Johnson, Corey Bradford, Jabar Gaffney and Derick Armstrong. It's looking more and more like the Texans will keep five receivers and one of them won't be return specialist J.J. Moses. The Texans appear to be looking for more versatility out of the final receiver spot, and the fact Jabar Gaffney can field punts and Kendrick Starling can handle kickoffs gives the team more options. Seventh-round pick Sloan Thomas could be in the mix, but the practice squad also is an option."



Pretty much the same thing I said. :thumbup

Lucky
09-03-2004, 03:17 PM
if you watch the games they have a short segment called "Texan's Hold'em."
I didn't realize that Craig James was our new Head Coach & Carleton Thompson was our new GM. My bad.

I went to the home games, so I was spared James commentary. "They've said" that the Texans are going with 5 WRs? Unless Casserly or Capers has made that statement, I reserve judgement until Sunday.

Porky
09-03-2004, 03:21 PM
if you watch the games they have a short segment called "Texan's Hold'em." They show Johnson and Bradford as our starters with Gaffney as a backup. Then they show the other WRs fighting for 2 spots. Since we all know Derick Armstrong is going to be our #4 guy there is only 1 spot left, meaning we are keeping 5 total.

Your first mistake is thinking that a Texans broadcast speaks for the Texans. Your second mistake is that Moses was not even listed among those competing as a WR. Moses is listed as a WR in name only. They have to classiffy him somewhere, but for all intents and purposes, he is a specialist. I tend to put him in the same grouping as Kris Brown and Chad Stanley. IMO, we will keep Moses AND Starling, giving us 6 WR, but for all practical purposes, it is really 5.

BTW - Both Starling, and Armstrong are impressing the hell out of me. Is it even possible for Armstrong to drop a ball. That man is like human super glue. His hands are some of the best I have seen, and he has incredible concentration, catching balls with defenders draped all over him. I never thought I would say it, but he may be passing Gaffney, not because Gaff has fallen off, but because Armstrong does everything Gaff does, only better.

El Tejano
09-03-2004, 03:22 PM
Actually we were all spared Craig James' (one of college footballs best paid athletes) commentary. He was commentating on the TCU game that is just barely finishing from last night. Man that game went on forever.

Scooter
09-03-2004, 03:26 PM
man jj can at least be the damn ball boy or somethin else besides returning kicks and punt returns. he is just takin up a roster spot, he did decent last year but like i said before he aint never gonna take one to the house.....he aint never gettin in the endzone i know for sure on a kick return, i bet you he will maybbbbbbbbbeeee get close on a punt return, but there goes the kicker runnin him down from behind and tacklin him with ease. i wish we could put our high school runnin back from here in the camp back there to return punts chad long. 5'6 150 4.34 10.50 2000 yards rush 8 ypc 28 td. put him in moses uniform one day haha, they would no the differance though, cause hed take one in for sure.

"he aint never gonna take one to the house...."

he took two punts last season that were called back because of penalties. he made a 70 yard run against new orleans, a 63 yarder against the jets, and finished 5th in the afc in return average. AS A ROOKIE. IMO we have to keep him. put the best team on the field, who cares if our 5th string wr is also a marginal returner.

texasguy346
09-03-2004, 03:42 PM
Your first mistake is thinking that a Texans broadcast speaks for the Texans. Your second mistake is that Moses was not even listed among those competing as a WR. Moses is listed as a WR in name only. They have to classiffy him somewhere, but for all intents and purposes, he is a specialist. I tend to put him in the same grouping as Kris Brown and Chad Stanley. IMO, we will keep Moses AND Starling, giving us 6 WR, but for all practical purposes, it is really 5.


Excellent point, and I agree completely. Moses won't see any action at WR even though it's his listed position. Perhaps after this season Moses might be gone, but I still think the coaches will want his sure hands back there to field punts. If we carry 6 WR then we would just adjust accordingly at another position. Moses is strictly a KR, and Scobey of the Arizona Cardinals is the same. Like Moses, Scobey won't see any time on the field on offense even though he's listed as a HB. Smith, Hambrick, and Casion are all on the depth chart ahead of him. Yet the Cardinals will still go into the season with 4 HBs on the roster. Same as our situation if we go into the season with 6 WRs.

disaacks3
09-03-2004, 03:49 PM
Nobody is suggesting that. I suspect they are going to keep 6 wr's: AJ, Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, Starling and JJ. Sloan Thomas to the practice squad.
BTW - Both Starling, and Armstrong are impressing the hell out of me. Is it even possible for Armstrong to drop a ball. That man is like human super glue. His hands are some of the best I have seen, and he has incredible concentration, catching balls with defenders draped all over him. I never thought I would say it, but he may be passing Gaffney, not because Gaff has fallen off, but because Armstrong does everything Gaff does, only better. After last night's game, it looks like these two quotes pretty much sum up the race. JJ was the only returner given a chance last night and took advantage when he was given the opportunity to return the ball. Sloan Thomas' stock dropped dramatically after an early drop for a 1st down. The morning crew on 610 was also batting around the idea of Armstrong being the new #3 guy over Gaffney as well. Both Armstrong and Starling absolutely SHINED last night in what ultimately was a losing cause. :twocents:

HoustonTexans4Life
09-03-2004, 03:49 PM
I remember last season we were down by like a touch down ,,,,and we were playing i think the jets,,,and J.J came in and returned the ball like 70 yards and gave us an oppurtuinity to win the game (but or offense stalled). He may not be much at WR but we should keep him cause we wont find another player better at KR and PR. Were gonna keep JJ cause field position wins ya games ( he gives us that ).

infantrycak
09-03-2004, 04:28 PM
why would it be good for the kicker to catch him from behind rather than head on, that would be even more of a shame because kickers arent fast. that would be very embarassing. jj is slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. he like a little volkswagon beetle, small and slow.

Kris Brown made tackles twice in one game on the Jacksonville returner AFTER that guy had gotten by the other ten Texans. Was their returner sloowwwwww?--no, Brown took the correct angle.

Frankly the take it to the house potential (something done only by 9 kr's last year on well over 1000 kr's) is virtually irrelevant. It just doesn't happen enough to care about. Field position and not putting the ball on the ground are things than affect each and every game. JJ routinely makes guys far faster than his slowwww self miss to get good field position. By the way, I am sure the guys JJ has beat for 70 yds, 60 yds, 53 yds, 41 yds, etc. on returns would not agree with your assessment that he is slowwww.

Vinny
09-03-2004, 04:48 PM
"he aint never gonna take one to the house...."

he took two punts last season that were called back because of penalties. he made a 70 yard run against new orleans, a 63 yarder against the jets, and finished 5th in the afc in return average. AS A ROOKIE. Moses was a rookie in 2002. Just to be clear. ;)

aj.
09-03-2004, 05:08 PM
5 WRs is not set in stone. The Texans carried as many as 7 WRs on their 53 late in the 2002 season. That was because of an injury or two, but it still could end up being 5 or 6.

Tulip
09-03-2004, 07:57 PM
Going into Thursday's game, I didn't know what they were going to do. I knew that Moses would get some returns, as would Gaffney and Starling. But the longer the game drew on, the more I kept waiting for Gaffney or Starling to come in on a return, but every time, Moses was there. I couldn't figure out until last night if the Texans were looking for a reason to keep him or cut him.

Cutting Vontez Duff was the first sign. Then, last night proved to me that Moses will be our return specialist. He gave them no reason to doubt him. He is just as solid and reliable as ever.

I think he had two reasons that his return yards average was lower than his ability last year. One, which he admitted, was that he was so busy trying to prove himself that he didn't take the fair catch when one was warranted. He is improving in that regard (acknowledgement is the biggest obstacle). Second, I think he had several good runs called back on holding penalties, at least half of which, IMO, were unrelated to his progress on the run. Yes, he's not as quick as the ideal, but he looks like Dante Hall when compared to what we had in Jermaine Lewis in 2002.

I like Starling. I hope they can keep him as well. I don't know who I'd be willing to part with to keep him, but I like what I've seen so far. If we can't keep Starling, I have no doubt he will be picked up quickly by another team.

HoustonTexans4Life
09-03-2004, 08:50 PM
Yeah he's fast at first but once he gets to tha 50 he seems to really ware down. Must be cause those tiny legs are churning a million times per second. but he's a hell of a KR.

Jwwillis
09-03-2004, 09:44 PM
Starling and Moses stay. They shed a TE.

HoustonTexans4Life
09-04-2004, 12:03 AM
haha he runs kina like me, im 5'6 im quick but i aint fast after 40 yards. ima try to get on the practice squad and them eventually take andre's place. :rolleyes:


idonno: yeah well good luck w/ that one,,,,no really :)

rdbrem
09-04-2004, 12:57 AM
Moses played one or two games in 2002 for Green Bay, at the end of the season. 5 punts, 4 kickoffs. Then, got cut for Eric Metcalf, (2 kickoffs, 3 punts for a -0.3 yard average). (from the Green Bay website)

So technically, 2002 was his rookie year. But realistically, 2003 was his rookie year.

I'm hoping they keep Moses and Starling. Sloan probably on the practice squad. If they want to keep JJ, but aren't playing him anyway, why not classify him as a TE? Or maybe a defensive tackle?

Maybe they could classify him as half a defensive tackle, and Sloan as the other half, so he doesn't take up a full roster spot?

By the way, per http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/KRET/2004/pre, who's no. 1 in kickoff returns in the preseason? My monitor is too small to read the name clearly... Can anybody help me? idonno:

rdbrem
09-04-2004, 01:11 AM
he is slowwwwwwwww, man, he is quick dont you know the differance? deep speed, thats what i have said all along, sure he is quick, if he wasnt then he wouldnt have gotten those long returns that he sometimes made. all that i was saying all along is that he aint got deep speed, and if he did he would have had more touchdowns then dante hall. so that means that after about 40 yards he doesnt have an extra gear. coprenda?

Wish the other guys on the team were that slow.

mes311
09-04-2004, 02:16 AM
I like Starling. I hope they can keep him as well. I don't know who I'd be willing to part with to keep him, but I like what I've seen so far. If we can't keep Starling, I have no doubt he will be picked up quickly by another team.

Since Starling is a pretty good gunner, he could take Bell's or Vaughn's spot and we could carry one more WR and one less DB.

By the way, per http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/KRET/2004/pre, who's no. 1 in kickoff returns in the preseason? My monitor is too small to read the name clearly... Can anybody help me?

Is that the same Jermaine Lewis at number 9 that was on the Texans in 2002?

RunninRaven
09-04-2004, 04:34 AM
I guess if Starling takes that final 5th spot, Moses is gone. Now if Moses takes the spot, Starling will make the practice squad. What do you guys think? Pretty much what I'm saying is that if Moses isn't in the roster...he won't even make it to practice squad but be released. Am I making myself clear??

It should be noted that just because a guy doesn't make the 53 man roster, doesn't necessarily mean we can just move him to the practice squad. He has to clear waivers, so other teams can pick him up if we don't keep them on the 53 man roster. This is why people are suggesting a 6 WR group, because if we cut Starling to attempt to put him on the practice squad, odds are someone will pick him up. Especially with as good as he has this preseason and with the raw physical skills he possesses. Hell, the Bears picked up Vontez Duff when we cut HIM, I definitely think we would lose Starling. So instead of saying, "We keep Moses and Starling makes the practice squad" it will likely be more like if we keep Moses and cut Starling, we lose him. So if operate under the assumption of only 5 WR, then you pretty much have to resign yourself to losing one of either Starling or JJ (assuming Sloan isn't even in the discussion, which I don't think he is anymore).

That's why I really hope they stick with the 6 WR and continue to use Moses as the return specialist. They can continue to train Starling on PR and KR and maybe utilize him in that role next season if he works out.

Scooter
09-04-2004, 05:34 AM
technically yes vinny, i had thought you'd have known what was meant.

this debate seems to me to come down the importance people put on special teams. my feeling is that a kick returner is a specialist and is critical to any team. dante hall is one of the biggest names in football, why? surely not because he's what 5'9" and makes spectacular catches, no it's because he's able to field a 50 yard kick and make moves noone else on the field can to get his offense in best position possible to score.

honestly, who would be displaced if we field a return specialist such as JJ? if a receiver is that person, it's a backup to two other backups. if it's another player, it's going to be someone who wont see much, if any, game time unless there's a blowout. what happens if we only have 4 wr's? we put miller out there if there's going to be a 5 wr set, a better receiver anyways. if one goes down, that means armstrong gets more time to play (which i believe he's going to really suprise folks when given the chance) and we activate the best of our young core from the practice squad as a backup.

now if i'm wrong and the arguement is simply JJ isnt good enough, find me anyone on the texans' roster that is better. or find me any "rookies" that gained more yards with fewer fumbles/drops than moses. "slow" isnt much of an arguement, i've already disputed big play potential with stats.

bckey
09-04-2004, 05:43 AM
Scooter, I agree with you 100%.

aj.
09-04-2004, 08:04 AM
Hell, the Bears picked up Vontez Duff when we cut HIMSee if he is still on their roster on Monday.

rdbrem
09-04-2004, 10:36 PM
Moses can't be on the practice squad, right? (Due to 2 years there already)

Tulip
09-04-2004, 11:11 PM
Scooter - I completely agree with you. I'm surprised that the returner's value is considered less than the value of an 11th DB or a 6th receiver. I feel that it is one of the most important roster spots, and I don't mind for a minute if we take up a spot with a true return specialist.

beerlover
09-04-2004, 11:19 PM
I always liked Tulips :rolleyes: I guess JJ is destined to go down in Texans record books as the all time kick off returner at least for now. I love his attitude and faith in his own abilities not to mention he is living his dream. But I'm going to say this, if a returner is worth a roster spot then next year I hope, no I pray that the Texans are able to draft Mark Clayton of OK. Then we can put all this controversy behind us and produce W's. :twocents:

Vinny
09-04-2004, 11:43 PM
technically yes vinny, i had thought you'd have known what was meant. I have/had a grasp on what you meant. I just didn't want anyone who read that to get the impression that he was a rookie last year when he was in his second year. Not a biggie, and I more or less agree with your overall point anyhoo...fwiw.

JDizzle
09-05-2004, 12:16 AM
JJ moses will be on our roster come monday, and everyone in the anti-JJ camp needs to accept it. JJ Moses isn't the most gifted returner in NFL history, but he can give us desirable field position, which is something you can't say for anyone else competing for the job. Vontez Duff was metiocre at best, and Kendrick Starling did not show much better. JJ, on the other hand, did. Many gave him flak for getting run down in the Jets game, but he got us into their red zone, and our offense couldn't punch it in.

I will be disappointed if he gets cut, that's for sure. I don't understand downgrading at a certain position, even if it's 'just' a return man.

Grid
09-05-2004, 12:24 AM
I think JJ will stay.. as well as starling. its not that hard to imagine that we would keep 6 wide receivers in this situation. Though I dont think we will go with 1 less TE... not after the injuries we have had at that position. If anything I think we may cut down at LB.. since we have a decent amount of depth there.. or possibly at CB.

What id really like to see.. if we are gonna keep JJ as a return specialist.. teach him a different position! There has to be something that a guy that size, with that kind of talent can do. Can he tackle? try him at strong saftey and throw him in there on rushing downs... give him a shot as a nickle corner or heck.. try him at outside linebacker (lol).. maybe that shiftyness will get him around the LT. I remember when I played ball in highschool.. there was a guy.. he was about 6'5" and about 125 pounds soaking wet with bricks in his pocket... but he could just slide right by those o-linemen and get to that QB.

Dont get me wrong.. I am not saying that JJ has some hidden potential as a huge playmaker at outside linebacker or something.. im just saying that if we are gonna keep him as our KR & PR.. then try him everywhere and make sure he doesnt have potential to actually add some depth to the roster at a different spot.. or at least potential as a situational rusher or HB or something. Hell.. can he throw? maybe he can take the 3rd QB spot and we can get rid of butterfinger banks.

TexanBacker93
09-05-2004, 02:37 AM
Moses can't be on the practice squad, right? (Due to 2 years there already)

I don't believe Moses was ever on our practice squad. I could be mistaken, but he was in the Chiefs camp as a rookie in 2002 I believe and he made the Texans 53 to start off 2003.

Vinny
09-05-2004, 03:41 AM
Actually I think Moses started as a Packer and then was released and went to KC before he came here. Also, you are correct in the fact that he is not going to be eligible for the PS.

ArlingtonTexan
09-05-2004, 07:57 AM
Scooter - I completely agree with you. I'm surprised that the returner's value is considered less than the value of an 11th DB or a 6th receiver. I feel that it is one of the most important roster spots, and I don't mind for a minute if we take up a spot with a true return specialist.

Overall, returner is a position that people notice in 3 situations

1- When you hav a very good one.
2- When you have a very bad one.
3- When you you have no worthwhile position battles to talk about in pre-season

Most you of can't name 5 returners off the top of your head, but the texans are one of the team that place a pretty high importance on the position

-carried carried Jermaine Lewis the fist year
-drafted Dom Davis a KR/3rd in 2003
-drafted Duff a KR in 2004
-Kept Moses as KR only in 2003

aj.
09-05-2004, 11:51 AM
carried Jermaine Lewis the fist yearBecause they had no players and he fit the bill as a dual threat - then.

drafted Dom Davis a KR/3rd in 2003Because Lewis washed out, Moses hadn't "arrived" yet, and Avion Black wasn't the answer. Also because of DD's dual threat capability - backup RB (then) and return man.

drafted Duff a KR in 2004Again, from most reports because he could serve a dual role as backup DB (which it turns out he couldn't) and return man

Kept Moses as KR only in 2003True.

The Texans have also place high importance on right tackle (different one every year) and many other positions. That happens when you're building a team and you're not completely satisfied with what you have at that position.

texansfan88
09-05-2004, 11:52 AM
according to the paper, hes going to be a texan for only 4 more hours.

Lucky
09-05-2004, 11:56 AM
according to the paper, hes going to be a texan for only 4 more hours.
Do you have a link? I haven't seen that reported.

aj.
09-05-2004, 12:00 PM
That's Carlton Thompson's opinion and none of us know when he's referring to "all indications" if he simply reflecting on the Starling - Gaffney tryouts or if he really has some insider info.

It's in the Football extra section. Page F5.

ArlingtonTexan
09-05-2004, 12:17 PM
Because they had no players and he fit the bill as a dual threat - then.

Because Lewis washed out, Moses hadn't "arrived" yet, and Avion Black wasn't the answer. Also because of DD's dual threat capability - backup RB (then) and return man.

Again, from most reports because he could serve a dual role as backup DB (which it turns out he couldn't) and return man

True.

The Texans have also place high importance on right tackle (different one every year) and many other positions. That happens when you're building a team and you're not completely satisfied with what you have at that position.

Think my post actually miscasted me as "single KR" guy when I am more in favor the dual role guys. I agree Moses specifically is like Miller and Foreman, a guy who can do something for you, but every year you are looking around for either a 'better" player or at least a guy who does more than one thing.

aj.
09-05-2004, 12:20 PM
I didn't read the single/dual thing into your post. I was just commenting on why they did what they did (because they were/are trying to improve every year and they obviously weren't satisfied with what they had). The dual threat thing is one of the reasons why the Texans picked those players (or so I've read) and not me trying to make a point one way or another.

ArlingtonTexan
09-05-2004, 12:50 PM
I didn't read the single/dual thing into your post. I was just commenting on why they did what they did (because they were/are trying to improve every year and they obviously weren't satisfied with what they had). The dual threat thing is one of the reasons why the Texans picked those players (or so I've read) and not me trying to make a point one way or another.

thanks, i feel better and just noticed how bad my typing has been this morning

TexasAggie
09-05-2004, 12:51 PM
Sometime today we will know. But I donot think that JJ makes the final cut. Roster positions are at a premium.

The Texans are going to have to cut young potential or aged experience. ANd no JJ is not old, he is not one of the ones I am talking about. I am on the side of cutting aged experience in the back up positions, since the best the Texans can do this year is fight for a wild card spot. Now that is great to me but I think next year is more likely for a run deep into the playoffs and we will need those younger players. jmo :twocents:

Fiddy
09-05-2004, 12:58 PM
Sometime today we will know.around 3:00 CDT in case any of you guys were wondering...

Mistril48
09-05-2004, 01:21 PM
One reason for the Texans to use all the time allowed to make their cuts is if they are working on a trade. Perhaps they are trying to move a player for a draft pick, to allow them to keep JJ, or a developmental player.

TEXANS84
09-05-2004, 01:24 PM
around 3:00 CDT in case any of you guys were wondering...

I am guessing that kffl.com would probably be the first source to get the info from.

Tulip
09-05-2004, 01:49 PM
I hope Thompson is wrong. A couple of weeks ago, I was resigned to Moses being cut, but after his performances, and the others' lack of performance at the position, I will be pretty surprised (and not too happy, I'm sure).

rdbrem
09-05-2004, 03:02 PM
Actually I think Moses started as a Packer and then was released and went to KC before he came here. Also, you are correct in the fact that he is not going to be eligible for the PS.

Moses started as a Chief in 2001 (practice squad only), then went to the Packers. Bounced back again to the Chiefs, and then again to the Packers. Assigned to NFL Europe (Scottish Claymores) by the Chiefs his first season, and I believe led in punt returns for NFL Europe.

From http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2002/11/13/3/

Vinny
09-05-2004, 03:10 PM
Yep he bounced back and forth from the Chiefs to the Packers. Signed and released by the Chiefs in early in 01 from what I gather.

26-Sep-01: Signed as a free agent by the Green Bay Packers.
21-Nov-01: Signed as a free agent by the Kansas City Chiefs.
13-Nov-02: Signed as a free agent by the Green Bay Packers.
30-Jan-03: Signed as a free agent by the Houston Texans.

rdbrem
09-05-2004, 03:22 PM
Just checked on the web site http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2002/11/13/3/
It's the Packers website, but they've still got him in his Chiefs shirt. Truly the Packers run a class web site...

txstater
09-05-2004, 03:26 PM
I really hope JJ stays. He has proven himself to be a capable (and, at times, exceptional) return man. Field position wins games.

# of TDs is irrelevant. YDs is what's important.

Vinny
09-05-2004, 04:19 PM
Hell, the Bears picked up Vontez Duff when we cut HIMSee if he is still on their roster on Monday. aj is the man. Duff didn't make it to Monday. The Bears released him today.

ArlingtonTexan
09-05-2004, 04:24 PM
I really hope JJ stays. He has proven himself to be a capable (and, at times, exceptional) return man. Field position wins games.

# of TDs is irrelevant. YDs is what's important.

idonno: idonno: idonno:

edo783
09-05-2004, 04:54 PM
He is still standing! Didn't release him. Kept Starling also.

txstater
09-05-2004, 04:59 PM
AT, what's confusing about that? Would you rather have a KR that has a TD or 2 with the rest of his returns never getting past the 30, or one with no TDs that always gets near the 50?

idonno: idonno: idonno:

I'm not saying Moses does, just trying to find out what's important for a KR. Also, does his past guarantee that he won't ever have a TD?

rdbrem
09-05-2004, 05:19 PM
AT, what's confusing about that??

idonno: idonno: idonno:

I'm not saying Moses does, just trying to find out what's important for a KR. Also, does his past guarantee that he won't ever have a TD?

He may not have got the line that said 'TDs aren't important, its YDs.' I was thinking 'what are YDS?' when I realized you meant yards. The abbreviation was OK, it just wasn't automatic, because of the capitalization.

txstater
09-05-2004, 05:38 PM
Every newspaper, tv station that carries games, website, and stadium scoreboard I've ever seen abbreviates "yards" as YD or YDS.

I'm not sure if that was his problem with my post, or even if it was my contention that YDs are more important than TDs. It might've been my opinion that Moses has proven himself. If that's the case, I can't say anything more; we all know the saying about opinions.

(BTW, there were 13 KR for TD last year; 2 players had 2, 9 had 1. Seems like a pretty small-sampled stat to put much stock in...)

Tulip
09-05-2004, 06:00 PM
I'm so glad Thompson was wrong. I'm not happy about some other cuts, but I guess that's the way it goes. Moses earned his spot.

Lucky
09-05-2004, 07:39 PM
From MARK BABINECK, AP (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdmdqbzAxBF9TAzk1ODYxMDU5BHNlYwNs dG4-?slug=ap-texans-cuts&prov=ap&type=lgns)
``I just felt after watching us go through preseason, we're getting ready to play for real and we aren't experimenting anymore,'' Capers said Sunday. ``J.J.'s a guy I have confidence in, and he went the whole year without putting the ball on the ground.''
See you guys in the next cut JJ thread, sometime during the '05 training camp. :)

aj.
09-05-2004, 09:44 PM
As it turns out, the Texans beat writer has no insider information. Not surprising.

Tulip
09-05-2004, 11:01 PM
It's not just the lack of insider information. If he had been making his predictions based just on the same observations that we are privy to, the chances of him making a prediction that Moses would be cut would be slim. It makes him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about. Many people, amateur and expert alike, changed their minds about Moses's status after Thursday's game. Not just his performance, but the way the coaches handled the return assignments as well.

Cluelessness or laziness - neither one is something I want from a reporter.

mes311
09-06-2004, 12:44 AM
I'm glad Moses made it as our 3rd TE :) Really, I'm glad JJ and Starling both made the team. Moses definitly showed the most as a returner throughout preseason. :headbang:

It's possible Thompson's article deadline was before Thursday's game, but I doubt it.

El Tejano
09-06-2004, 12:47 AM
Moses if you're reading this, I want you to know that I have been praying for you.

I am glad to see Kid Din-o-Mite made the team and proved alot of people wrong. I feel having a guy with his attitude and determination is exactly what you need in a Kick Returner. I hope to see Moses make some big returns this season.

Jwwillis
09-06-2004, 02:20 PM
Starling and Moses stay. They shed a TE.



I nailed it lol: