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View Full Version : Hmmm, now I'm scratching my head....


David's Busted Carr
05-25-2006, 11:07 AM
OK, I finally came to terms and appreciate the drafting of Mario Williams about a week after the draft. However with the recent developments in the recent practices I'm a little bit puzzled.

1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.

2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing the decisions that have been made, but with these developments it really makes me wonder if the Texans really picked Mario "because he was the best fit for the team" or if there was some other factor (signability) that was the main reason.

It seems to me they were gearing up to draft Reggie with their other FA signings and are now having to do a complete 180 after picking Mario.

If they knew they were going to stick with DD, why didn't they sign Bennett early in free agency? Because they thought they would have Reggie? Now we are going to have to give up a draft pick if we want him.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm????

TheCD
05-25-2006, 11:16 AM
I agree with you on the Smith situation...but as of right now you have to assume this is all just Kubiak trying to see if people fit into certain situations. The important thing is that we have lots of depth on our line and can actually discuss who is a better starter rather than say 'crap...we're stuck with this guy again'.

Reggie Bush didn't fit into our system anymore than Morency does right now. Like Kubiak said...we want a one-cut and downhill running system, everyone knows that's not Bush's style. I think Kubiak would have had a cow if we had Bush out there every week spinning and juking defenders (even if it works), it's just not his style of football.

colts18288
05-25-2006, 11:17 AM
OK, I finally came to terms and appreciate the drafting of Mario Williams about a week after the draft. However with the recent developments in the recent practices I'm a little bit puzzled.

1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.

2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing the decisions that have been made, but with these developments it really makes me wonder if the Texans really picked Mario "because he was the best fit for the team" or if there was some other factor (signability) that was the main reason.

It seems to me they were gearing up to draft Reggie with their other FA signings and are now having to do a complete 180 after picking Mario.

If they knew they were going to stick with DD, why didn't they sign Bennett early in free agency? Because they thought they would have Reggie? Now we are going to have to give up a draft pick if we want him.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm????



HMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-25-2006, 11:22 AM
OK, I finally came to terms and appreciate the drafting of Mario Williams about a week after the draft. However with the recent developments in the recent practices I'm a little bit puzzled.

1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.

2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing the decisions that have been made, but with these developments it really makes me wonder if the Texans really picked Mario "because he was the best fit for the team" or if there was some other factor (signability) that was the main reason.

It seems to me they were gearing up to draft Reggie with their other FA signings and are now having to do a complete 180 after picking Mario.

If they knew they were going to stick with DD, why didn't they sign Bennett early in free agency? Because they thought they would have Reggie? Now we are going to have to give up a draft pick if we want him.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm????


Calm down it is not the end of the world, things like this pop up all the time. If you had reggie right now he would be on the bench anyway.

1. They (kube) has already established that Mario will end up playing all 4 positions on the front line, which also means you will have the other guys switching around also, As a new coach, sometimes you have to mix things up to see how each player(s) compliment each other. not to mention you are forgetting that you will now have fresh players more throughout the game when you need to dig down deep and pin those ears back and go all out on that opposing offensive line (who, mind you, does not have the opportunity to switch for fresh players).

2. Michael Bennett is no slouch of a RB. I know first had seeing him in Minnesota, and smith did well when Duece was out with injury as well. Don't let the wheels fall off just yet. Maybe a little alingment is needed, but this team is still 10 times better than last year or the year before.

DEFENSE WINS SUPERBOWLS.... Do the research!!! Heck, if the Ravens can win a Superbowl why not the Texans... DEFENSE DEFENSE!!! Make some noise!!!

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-25-2006, 11:23 AM
HMMMMMMMMMMMM?????


You guys have enough to worry about on your own side of town!!!

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-25-2006, 11:25 AM
I agree with you on the Smith situation...but as of right now you have to assume this is all just Kubiak trying to see if people fit into certain situations. The important thing is that we have lots of depth on our line and can actually discuss who is a better starter rather than say 'crap...we're stuck with this guy again'.

Reggie Bush didn't fit into our system anymore than Morency does right now. Like Kubiak said...we want a one-cut and downhill running system, everyone knows that's not Bush's style. I think Kubiak would have had a cow if we had Bush out there every week spinning and juking defenders (even if it works), it's just not his style of football.


Agree with depth, I know you cannot forget the 120 degrees down on the field. that takes a toll and when you can bring in fresh bodies to go against an offense that cannot take a break... ADVANTAGE TEXANS!!! GO DEFENSE

FILO_girl
05-25-2006, 11:31 AM
You guys have enough to worry about on your own side of town!!!

This is the post of the day!
:perfect10:

Double Barrel
05-25-2006, 11:36 AM
I think, for the first time in our short history, we have possibly achieved a concept called "depth".

I know, I know, it's a weird feeling, and one that we Texans fans might not trust. But I think Coach Kubiak understands the importance of a strong D-line, and we need players that can both rotate positions, as well as come off the bench to keep everyone fresh. Defensive gameplans depend on it.

With regards to DD and not drafting Bush; Signability could easily have been a factor, due to the fact that a player is NOT learning a system and is NOT on the same page as everyone else while he's in hold-out mode. And who knows how long these things can last, as we've seen players refuse to sign through training camp and even into regular season. That can't be good, or even a chance to be considered, for a new coach that wants to hit the ground running as he leads his new team into his first season with them.

In addition, Coach Kubiak comes from a very successful system that proves that mid-round RBs can be very successful under the right circumstances (mainly an o-line that can consistenly create holes). So perhaps he wasn't as bamboozled by the hype as much as the rest of us, because he feels confident that backs are easier to come by than dominant defensive ends. Just food for thought.

Texian
05-25-2006, 11:58 AM
I don't think you have come to terms or appreciate the drafting of Mario Williams, Yet! Keep the faith in time I think you really will.

beerlover
05-25-2006, 12:32 PM
I think your post is a valid one & the answear is that this process has been very fluid & changing as all the angles are discussed. VY was not out of the question up until two weeks before the draft, no blockbuster trades offered, not to mention the Texans where very impressed with Marios visit.

Signablity was a factor, thats straight from the owner Bob McNair. Kubiak made the choice to go defensive & a sound one given the changes (4-3) along with aquistion's Weaver/Cowart (not long term solutions). I can see already why they love Mario, he is a team player & fits in the scheme they want to run perfectly :)

Runner
05-25-2006, 12:36 PM
2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.


I guess the Kubiak team really believes that, for the Texans:

(Mario + any available back) > Reggie Bush

El Tejano
05-25-2006, 12:48 PM
I agree with the person who stated we have finally come across the concept of depth for the first time in our history. Also, you have to understand either Peek or Babin will not be here next year. For right now during OTA's you see what kind of impact you could have with Weaver playing DT, mix that with the fact that we may be utilizing some 3-4 still due to the type of players we have and then think of how Weaver can always go back to DE and you have depth once more.

As for not signing Bennett before the draft, please remember that initially we wanted to get a trade deal for our pick and we needed to not get other RBs since we needed to build smoke screens to help get that pick traded. Just never happened.

colts18288
05-25-2006, 12:51 PM
You guys have enough to worry about on your own side of town!!!

Yea you may be right, but I dont have to tie up all my time worrying. Simply because........Well never mind then I'll be labeled a troll just for defending myself.

Make all the snide comments you like, but remind me again how many times you guys beat us?:brickwall

hollywood_texan
05-25-2006, 12:53 PM
This isn't a big deal and several people have posted why.

Injuries happen and the good teams overcome them.

Also, talent on a team doesn't fit like a jigsaw puzzle, but it seems clear to me this coaching staff is building a team from a plan and filling it out with talent according to the plan. Which is probably the best approach.

Nothing works perfectly in life, especially in football.

We are going to be all right, besides this is going to several years to get cooking anyway.

jerek
05-25-2006, 01:00 PM
(1) I don't think we are "scrambling for scrubs" because Kubiak expects to have to replace Davis halfway through the season again. I think he is simply a coach who (weird thought, I know) seeks depth.

(2) Where did you get that Kubiak "doesn't like" Morency? Haven't heard one way or the other on that.

(3) Mario will mostly play the DE. Weaver is of the physique/game to work either at DE or DT, but expect him to change in and out with Peek and possibly Babin at DE. In re to giving Weaver DE money, it is precisely because he is a solid player at both positions and that gives us flexibility and again depth.

(4) My Texans sources tell me that Mario was and remains a football decision and that "signability" had nothing to do with it. Again, don't remember if it's been published or not, but the fact is Mario was paid more than the Texans last standing offer to Reggie Bush. It wasn't about the money in any event, and either Kubiak thought that Reggie's game was overvalued, or more likely, figured that he could utilize Davis and someone else just as effectively for his offense's purposes. Which, again, given Kubiak's rather storied success with "plug-n-play RBs" ... I would say is a valid theory.

(5) Also, on draft day ... the Texans had every intention of trading back up into the first with Chicago and grabbing either Maroney or DeAngelo, and all preliminary indications were that they would be able to do so ... and Buffalo swooped in at the last minute and outbid us. That was the FO's plan and since that fell through, they have since merely taken their time to test the market. Apparently NO wants too much for Bennett, and that is why he has not been picked up yet.

(6) It has been said by some of the talking heads (and I agree) that all-world defensive end talent is harder to come by than all-world RB talent. Mario Williams is every bit the exceptional athlete that Reggie Bush is ... and that kind of position-changing athleticism frankly is much harder to come by at the DE spot. Esp. in light of our pretty-good running game versus our sorely lacking defense (again, all been discussed many times on this board) I think it is easy to view Mario as a football decision and the right call.

jerek
05-25-2006, 01:02 PM
Yea you may be right, but I dont have to tie up all my time worrying. Simply because........Well never mind then I'll be labeled a troll just for defending myself.

Make all the snide comments you like, but remind me again how many times you guys beat us?:brickwall

Sweet heavens, a Colts fan? Who let you and your blasphemous graphics on this board? :)

Tell me Colts fan, how do you feel about releasing Edgerrin James? Good move or no?

thunderkyss
05-25-2006, 01:02 PM
OK, I finally came to terms and appreciate the drafting of Mario Williams about a week after the draft. However with the recent developments in the recent practices I'm a little bit puzzled.

1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.

I believe Weaver was one of our first FA signings....... if not the first. Kubiak told Casserly he wants this guy. He plays DE in a 3-4... that makes him a Tackle in a 4-3.... more or less..... you don't see us even thinking about sliding our DEs over?? no, we're moving our OLBs to DE, and our DEs to tackle. I think Casserly/Ferens went about business as usual, negotiated & signed Weaver like they've been signing people in the past. Goofy contracts, trying to "lure" players to play in Houston. There is no doubt in my mind, that Kubiak ripped Ferens/Casserly a new Ahole when he learned of the contract details..... Even as a DE, Kubiak wasn't planning on paying him that kinda money.

2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.

I'm not getting this. DD is right on schedule.....
Kubiak will have 4 RBs going into the season, whether we had Reggie Bush or whoever. I don't think we're scrambling for scrubs either. Smith has shown to be a quality backup/potential starter..... Bennette has been a starter till now. Neither of which I believe will be getting any kind of Bonus from us..... they might not make the team. Until the beggining of the season, we might sign a dozen other RBs......... doesn't mean they will be on the team. Just filling spots for TC.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not bashing the decisions that have been made, but with these developments it really makes me wonder if the Texans really picked Mario "because he was the best fit for the team" or if there was some other factor (signability) that was the main reason.

I think we targeted Mario early on(Weaver was supposed to play Tackle). We believed we would be able to make the trade with the Jets, and still get him. Two things happened to screw that up.
1) The Jets weren't playing, when they said they weren't trading up.
2) The Saints signed a QB....

It seems to me they were gearing up to draft Reggie with their other FA signings and are now having to do a complete 180 after picking Mario.

I think they wanted everyone to think that. The hype he was generating..... or the hype ESPN was generating. The Jets with an aging Curtis Martin.. surely someone in the top 4 would come up and get him............ not.

I don't think Kubiak rated Reggie as highly as reported. I can't imagine Shanahan saying,"yeah you should pay the unproven fella $9mill a year, to do the exact same thing I get these guys to do for $400,000/yr" it doesn't make sense.

The only #1 in this years draft, was Vince Young.... and we screwed that pouch with David's $8mil + Sage's $2 mil.

So taking Reggie..... just didn't make sense..... Taking Vince screws up the QB position more than it'll probably help........ D'Brick just isn't as athletic as we're going to need....... AJ Hawk with a #1 overall?? I don't think so....... we wanted Mario from the get go, as he's the best player to help us in 2006, so we took him at #1.

If they knew they were going to stick with DD, why didn't they sign Bennett early in free agency? Because they thought they would have Reggie? Now we are going to have to give up a draft pick if we want him.

Bennett would be a value pick to anyone, since N.O. is taking the hit for the Bonus he's been paid..... I doubt we'd be looking at him if it weren't for that. I don't think we're scrambling for a RB anymore than we were scrambling for a WR...... or LB..... we have spots to fill on our roster..... we're trying to fill them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm????

Things that make me say...."get off of Reggies Jock...... it's got to be sore by now."

V Man
05-25-2006, 01:06 PM
I think, for the first time in our short history, we have possibly achieved a concept called "depth".

I know, I know, it's a weird feeling, and one that we Texans fans might not trust. But I think Coach Kubiak understands the importance of a strong D-line, and we need players that can both rotate positions, as well as come off the bench to keep everyone fresh. Defensive gameplans depend on it.

With regards to DD and not drafting Bush; Signability could easily have been a factor, due to the fact that a player is NOT learning a system and is NOT on the same page as everyone else while he's in hold-out mode. And who knows how long these things can last, as we've seen players refuse to sign through training camp and even into regular season. That can't be good, or even a chance to be considered, for a new coach that wants to hit the ground running as he leads his new team into his first season with them.

In addition, Coach Kubiak comes from a very successful system that proves that mid-round RBs can be very successful under the right circumstances (mainly an o-line that can consistenly create holes). So perhaps he wasn't as bamboozled by the hype as much as the rest of us, because he feels confident that backs are easier to come by than dominant defensive ends. Just food for thought.


This too me hits the nail on the head all three of the points. Kubiak has been in the NFL for awhile now. He might just know a little more about the game than most of us.

thunderkyss
05-25-2006, 01:29 PM
Kubiak has been in the NFL for awhile now. He might just know a little more about the game than most of us.

I Respect you V Man........ but this argument can be used in Capers favor as well.

SESupergenius
05-25-2006, 01:35 PM
Very good post as some around here are starting to think that Kubiak = Shanahan and can give us a Super Bowl next season. There have been some quesitonable decisions this off season, but for the most part we are gutting a 2-14 team, so really we can't get any worse. A good GM is going to be breath of fresh air around here.

V Man
05-25-2006, 01:36 PM
I Respect you V Man........ but this argument can be used in Capers favor as well.

I don't think Capers problem was his lack of knowledge, but his loyalty to his staff (who didn't seem to have much football knowledge).

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-25-2006, 01:51 PM
Yea you may be right, but I dont have to tie up all my time worrying. Simply because........Well never mind then I'll be labeled a troll just for defending myself.

Make all the snide comments you like, but remind me again how many times you guys beat us?:brickwall

You know... that is what I use to hang my season on is how many times we use to beat the Packers, then I realized it really doesn't matter because at the end you are at the same place. Watching the superbowl at home like the rest.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-25-2006, 01:54 PM
Yea you may be right, but I dont have to tie up all my time worrying. Simply because........Well never mind then I'll be labeled a troll just for defending myself.

Make all the snide comments you like, but remind me again how many times you guys beat us?:brickwall


If I may use you for a minute...

Can you share with the unbeliever Mario bashers... How important is a high quality DE to an offense?

Brandon420tx
05-25-2006, 01:59 PM
Sweet heavens, a Colts fan? Who let you and your blasphemous graphics on this board? :)

Tell me Colts fan, how do you feel about releasing Edgerrin James? Good move or no?

I know you were kidding, but, he doesn't come onto this forum only to attack the texans, (Well, untill we attack his team first and he retaliates and defends them as all fans do) from the most part, his posts are often supportive (Unless I'm thinking of a different person) but he is looked down upon because of his avatar and his display name... I'd expect more from us since we're usually a very civilized forum.

Back to topic. I think its funny that with all the depth additions to this team people start coming up with conspiracy theories. i.e. We have around 7 HB's on the roster, so that means we should have gottern RB because DD just wont cut it.... thats bs....

Or, the arguement about Weaver being paid DE money when he'll be spending most of the time at DT.... blame that on the people who offered him a contract...

Then those who think we have too much depth at our D-line.... seriously? SERIOUSLY? too much ... don't make me laugh out loud... oh yea, I typed it out... what of it? We have extreme depth at EVERY position... we currently have over 90 people on the roster, and we can only keep a little over 50 of them.... so... how many people WONT make the team? Just because we have alot of depth does not mean that we are scrambling around to fill our positions... There are 12 WR's on our roster, does that mean AJ better look out? of course not, DD will play, and our D-line will be fresh the pretty much the entire game... and thats a bad thing?

Eh, I'm ranting, so my point might not be as clear as it could be, forgive me... I'll look back on it later and try to revise it.

Less then 3,
Brandon420tx - Texans Fan

Long Baller
05-25-2006, 01:59 PM
If I may use you for a minute...

Can you share with the unbeliever Mario bashers... How important is a high quality DE to an offense?

Must be more important then RB since Edge is gone and DF is still on board.

run-david-run
05-25-2006, 01:59 PM
I Respect you V Man........ but this argument can be used in Capers favor as well.
How about Kubiak has been succesful in the NFL for a while now?

TexanFan881
05-25-2006, 02:10 PM
1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.

At the time I think we wanted a DE who had experience in the 4-3, just like we wanted a LB with that experience (Sam Cowart). At the time we were probably looking at Reggie after all of his hype and probably figured he would help us then. I don't think Mario seriously came into the picture until about a week after we signed Weaver. As of now, yes, it does look like a total waste of money, but if we didn't get Mario as we were not sure we were going to get him at the time, Weaver would have gotten some good playing time and the move would have looked a lot better.

2) It sounds like DD's injury is more serious than initially reported. Kubiak does not like Morency and feels he doesn't fit our system. So now we are scrambling to find some scrubs like Antowain Smith & Micheal Bennett to pick up the slack? This makes passing on Reggie Bush even more questionable.

Antowain Smith was not brought in to start in place of DD. He was brought in to be a change of pace, short yardage back. Michael Bennett would fit very good in our system and Kubes wants 2 good solid RBs like many other teams in the league have to be dominant. Bennett fits our system very nicely, if we do trade for him. In Kubiak's running game, it is a one cut and find the hole type of running game, and from what I understand Morency is not adjusting to that well and will need some work to fit. Wali Lundy seems like he would fit our system well and him and Morency will be fighting for the #3 RB position.

DocBar
05-25-2006, 02:29 PM
HMMMMMMMMMMMM?????

Quit laughing. We had a pretty damned good draft!!! :spy:

ledzeppelin229
05-25-2006, 02:34 PM
I Respect you V Man........ but this argument can be used in Capers favor as well.

It was, up until last seasons 2-14 debacle.:brickwall

And in small minorities it still is (more specifically, Bobo)

Meloy
05-25-2006, 02:34 PM
Personally, I think Weaver was used as part of a ploy to make the Jets think Texans were going to go with Bush. Jets handled the bluff & didn't trade up. We get Weaver, a good player that we had to pay if we wanted him. McNair said $ would not restrict him from going after guys his coach wanted. He put his $ where his mouth is. Was it wise? Hey, it's his $. So we got a pretty good DE that can play tackle in Weaver and Williams.

DocBar
05-25-2006, 02:45 PM
I believe Weaver was one of our first FA signings....... if not the first. Kubiak told Casserly he wants this guy. He plays DE in a 3-4... that makes him a Tackle in a 4-3.... more or less..... you don't see us even thinking about sliding our DEs over?? no, we're moving our OLBs to DE, and our DEs to tackle. I think Casserly/Ferens went about business as usual, negotiated & signed Weaver like they've been signing people in the past. Goofy contracts, trying to "lure" players to play in Houston. There is no doubt in my mind, that Kubiak ripped Ferens/Casserly a new Ahole when he learned of the contract details..... Even as a DE, Kubiak wasn't planning on paying him that kinda money.

I'm not getting this. DD is right on schedule.....
Kubiak will have 4 RBs going into the season, whether we had Reggie Bush or whoever. I don't think we're scrambling for scrubs either. Smith has shown to be a quality backup/potential starter..... Bennette has been a starter till now. Neither of which I believe will be getting any kind of Bonus from us..... they might not make the team. Until the beggining of the season, we might sign a dozen other RBs......... doesn't mean they will be on the team. Just filling spots for TC.

I think we targeted Mario early on(Weaver was supposed to play Tackle). We believed we would be able to make the trade with the Jets, and still get him. Two things happened to screw that up.
1) The Jets weren't playing, when they said they weren't trading up.
2) The Saints signed a QB....

I think they wanted everyone to think that. The hype he was generating..... or the hype ESPN was generating. The Jets with an aging Curtis Martin.. surely someone in the top 4 would come up and get him............ not.

I don't think Kubiak rated Reggie as highly as reported. I can't imagine Shanahan saying,"yeah you should pay the unproven fella $9mill a year, to do the exact same thing I get these guys to do for $400,000/yr" it doesn't make sense.

The only #1 in this years draft, was Vince Young.... and we screwed that pouch with David's $8mil + Sage's $2 mil.

So taking Reggie..... just didn't make sense..... Taking Vince screws up the QB position more than it'll probably help........ D'Brick just isn't as athletic as we're going to need....... AJ Hawk with a #1 overall?? I don't think so....... we wanted Mario from the get go, as he's the best player to help us in 2006, so we took him at #1.

Bennett would be a value pick to anyone, since N.O. is taking the hit for the Bonus he's been paid..... I doubt we'd be looking at him if it weren't for that. I don't think we're scrambling for a RB anymore than we were scrambling for a WR...... or LB..... we have spots to fill on our roster..... we're trying to fill them. Nothing more, nothing less.


Things that make me say...."get off of Reggies Jock...... it's got to be sore by now."

Quite possibly the best post I've read on here. That said, put down the double expresso and step away from the caffeine.:bananasplit:

Gonna be a very interesting year, boys and girls. I'm just glad we have a chance to get on here and gripe about our FAVORITE HOMETOWN TEAM!!!!
If you disagree, think back to 1999 or 2000 and life without an NFL team and the Titans doing the Super Bowl number on our crotches. :crying:

Double Barrel
05-25-2006, 03:00 PM
I Respect you V Man........ but this argument can be used in Capers favor as well.

While this is true on the surface, Kubiak has five Superbowl experiences (as a coach and a player) and two more NFL Championship rings than Capers.

What's the old saying..."never underestimate the heart of a champion"? Kubiak has personal experience on extremely successful teams, and even with no HC experience, I like to believe that he knows what he's doing.

:redtowel: mmmmm, koolaide!

TheOgre
05-25-2006, 03:03 PM
I think, for the first time in our short history, we have possibly achieved a concept called "depth".

Depth does not exist. It is only in your brain. It is as fake as Santa Claus (sorry if I ruined this for someone), the Tooth Fairy, and a well-behaved T.O.

santo
05-25-2006, 03:08 PM
If you disagree, think back to 1999 or 2000 and life without an NFL team and the Titans doing the Super Bowl number on our crotches. :crying:


Please, don't remind us...:(

El Tejano
05-25-2006, 04:08 PM
Does anyone else see the effect Mario Williams has already given us by being able to move Weaver to DT. Talk about depth man.

Bobo
05-25-2006, 04:14 PM
A.) I understand Davis will be on the practice field sometime next week. B.) Weaver is awful when it comes to pass rushing. He has very few sacks in his career. I would guess that Weaver will be moving around a lot and may not even be in there at all during passing downs, which means some of those other guys you mentioned would be in there instead.

JAXwithanX
05-25-2006, 05:40 PM
This whole Weaver getting paid DE money is getting blown out of proportion anyways. First off he isn't being paid an exorbant amount and I'm sure he will see plenty of time at DE on certain downs and in a rotation. Second off, we signed Weaver before any of the combine and workouts started coming through....so if your saying it doesn't make any sense to sign a player for good money and then draft one....well then the same case should go for if we drafted Bush. DD just signed an extension the year before for much bigger than what Weaver signed for here in FA. You can't just avoid all draft picks that you have money involved in.....I mean it is impossible and stupid to try and only draft a guy because you haven't recently signed anyone there or don't have a lot of money tied up there.

bigbrewster2000
05-25-2006, 05:57 PM
Yea you may be right, but I dont have to tie up all my time worrying. Simply because........Well never mind then I'll be labeled a troll just for defending myself.

Make all the snide comments you like, but remind me again how many times you guys beat us?:brickwall

The real question is this, why post on a Texans message board to make yourself feel good?

tsip
05-25-2006, 06:18 PM
Capers and Bush--- what do they have in common?...a day does not go by without mentioning their name by someone in their post. Why?

Kaiser Toro
05-25-2006, 06:48 PM
I guess the Kubiak team really believes that, for the Texans:

(Mario + any available back) > Reggie Bush

Man do I love formulas, equations and definitions. :)

Kaiser Toro
05-25-2006, 06:52 PM
Hmmmm? We took Williams and did not take Bush on April 29th. Today is May 25th and Williams is signed and Bush is not. Hmmmmm? Next subject please, nothing to see here but some bellyaching and it ain't a pretty sight. Best lock up the women and children it is about to go down. :mario: :mario: :mario:

Runner
05-25-2006, 06:59 PM
Man do I love formulas, equations and definitions. :)

They can add a certain clarity to some discussions.

Seņor Stan
05-25-2006, 07:03 PM
I think, for the first time in our short history, we have possibly achieved a concept called "depth".

I know, I know, it's a weird feeling, and one that we Texans fans might not trust. But I think Coach Kubiak understands the importance of a strong D-line, and we need players that can both rotate positions, as well as come off the bench to keep everyone fresh. Defensive gameplans depend on it.


Spot on Double Barrel...

From http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3884483.html

"Everybody is pushing each other," Babin said. "There are guys out here that have started in the league a long time, and now we're all fighting for jobs. If anything, it's going to make everybody better.

"And I know from what the coaches say that we're all going to get a lot of playing time. The way we're going to be playing, you can get tired quick. We're going to have a rotation there."

I like the idea that the D-Line is going to "be getting tired quick". Tells me it will be a attacking high pressure type Defense. The Running of the Bulls!

aj.
05-25-2006, 07:13 PM
This whole Weaver getting paid DE money is getting blown out of proportion anyways. First off he isn't being paid an exorbant amount

Weaver, Mario, and Robaire are all making "special or dominant at position" equivalent salary. Any player that gets 10+ million in signing bonus is in that category and is held to a higher standard by me at least..

ClintonPortis26
05-25-2006, 07:20 PM
Micheal Bennet is a first round pick and is a good running back if he can stay healthy...and thats a big if. But if he does stay healthy he could be the suprise back of the year.


He isnt deserving of being called a scrub.

Double Barrel
05-25-2006, 07:27 PM
I like the idea that the D-Line is going to "be getting tired quick". Tells me it will be a attacking high pressure type Defense. The Running of the Bulls!

I like the idea, too! Hope it is a sign of things to come! :redtowel:

While big scoring plays can really fire up a crowd, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, can pump up the hometown crowd like a dominant defense that consistently crushes the enemy's offense.

An illustration for my point:

Enemy offense---> :brickwall<---Dominant defense :texflag:

TexansSeminole
05-25-2006, 07:30 PM
I think they wanted everyone to think that. The hype he was generating..... or the hype ESPN was generating. The Jets with an aging Curtis Martin.. surely someone in the top 4 would come up and get him............ not.

I don't think Kubiak rated Reggie as highly as reported. I can't imagine Shanahan saying,"yeah you should pay the unproven fella $9mill a year, to do the exact same thing I get these guys to do for $400,000/yr" it doesn't make sense.


Yes, thank you. I tried to explain this to people before the draft, about Reggie. They let ESPN use him as a tool to get a trade, but obviously no trade offers came that exceeded the value of Mario, and i can honestly say I am happy about that.

Mario doesnt just give us a stud DE, but it elevates our defense. Once this guy starts getting sacks in the season, other guys are going to want to join in. Look at the NC State Dline. If you see someone eating dessert everyday after lunch at work, your going to start wanting some cookies.

I also think that Kubiak is searching for our future Dline. This year is kind of a test year for some of these guys, becuase you know they are not all going to return the following year.

Anyway, the only thing about this offseason that makes me go HMMM is why we havent addressed our Safety problems, or maybe even Cornerback problem. I can kind of understand the cornerback thing, becuase we have a potential starter in Pbuc, so maybe Kubiak is giving him a test year as well...he is a players coach after all, he has shown that he wants people to prove themselves. Anyway i dont think our Safeties are up to par but i am not about to start complaining. Kubiak has fixed enough for me to not complain about a damn thing.:bananasplit:

Brandon420tx
05-25-2006, 08:06 PM
An illustration for my point:

Enemy offense---> :brickwall<---Dominant defense :texflag:

I love his colorful illustrations, and Thunderkyss I agree compeletly with your previous post, its what I've been trying to say but I've gotten to flustered in my rantings to make my point :brickwall
MORE PICTURES PLEASE :yahoo:

phantom17
05-25-2006, 08:18 PM
I think Kubes & Co. are doing a terrific job at putting up all the right pieces together, I'm not expecting a miracle but I like what I see! I hope we surprise everyone in the NFL this year! The Bush/Vince thing should be put out to pasture & we should be moving forward. Some people here has just too much BUSH in the brain.:yahoo: :poker: :hunter:

Seņor Stan
05-25-2006, 08:22 PM
While big scoring plays can really fire up a crowd, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, can pump up the hometown crowd like a dominant defense that consistently crushes the enemy's offense.


Seņor Stan: "Double Barrel what is best in life?"
Double Barrel "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

edo783
05-25-2006, 08:49 PM
MORE PICTURES PLEASE :yahoo:

Ahhh, a visual learner....welcome to the crowd.

edo783
05-25-2006, 08:49 PM
Seņor Stan: "Double Barrel what is best in life?"
Double Barrel "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

:ok:

BigDTexansFan
05-25-2006, 09:15 PM
1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.


Robaire Smith has been having problems staying healthy, Johnson is still a rookie and Seth Payne is only getting older. DEPTH My Boy DEPTH

BigDTexansFan
05-25-2006, 09:17 PM
Saw this on Texans News section, Kubiak said "there are no starters and no backup players, everyone is fighting for a position and we will have best players on field" :drool:

aj.
05-25-2006, 10:20 PM
Robaire Smith has been having problems staying healthy,

Robaire Smith hasn't missed a game in over four years.

SheTexan
05-25-2006, 11:00 PM
Robaire Smith hasn't missed a game in over four years.

I caught that too Aj!! Couldn't remember Robaire being injured at all.

sprtsfanatic
05-25-2006, 11:08 PM
Robaire Smith hasn't missed a game in over four years.

I would assume that out of the group that he mentioned when it was posted is that he meant payne???

infantrycak
05-26-2006, 12:05 AM
I would assume that out of the group that he mentioned when it was posted is that he meant payne???

Who hasn't missed a game in two years and three years ago busted a knee on turf so bad they replaced it mid-season a couple weeks after his injury? Dude is clearly made of glass.

TwinSisters
05-26-2006, 12:30 AM
"And I know from what the coaches say that we're all going to get a lot of playing time. The way we're going to be playing, you can get tired quick. We're going to have a rotation there."

This is what I was thinking about too when looking at the depth on the defensive line. I am going to be looking to see if anybody tries to go "no huddle" quick strike on us.

It doesn't mean anything really, but it should be interesting to look for.

GP
05-26-2006, 12:41 AM
1) Why did we pay Anthony Weaver DE money if we are just going to use him as another DT? We already have Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, & Seth Payne. And indications are Mario will be at one end and Peek/Babin at the other. I think we would have been fine with Weaver at one end and Peek/Babin at the other.


Robaire Smith has been having problems staying healthy, Johnson is still a rookie and Seth Payne is only getting older. DEPTH My Boy DEPTH

Think about it.

Mario can line up at DE or further inside. What if Mario lines up at DE, and then half-way through the QB's cadence Mario switches with someone at the tackle spot? The QB thought Mario was lining up at DE to rush from the outside edge, and the QB (Manning?) changes the call to a running play up the middle to avoid Mario.......but Mario switches and lines up further inside in anticipation of the offense's audible.

And the QB has three seconds to snap the ball, and the QB thinks "Oh, crud."

That's along the same line as us theorizing that Bush could line up at RB and then sprint out to a WR spot, causing havok for the defense.

Well, same goes for Mario. With Mario, the whole defense becomes multi-dimentional.

And think about this scenario: To further blow the offenseive coordinator's mind, Mario runs a stunt and ends up (in the end) rushing from the outside edge. So many options..................

Runner
05-26-2006, 01:12 AM
And think about this scenario: To further blow the offenseive coordinator's mind, Mario runs a stunt and ends up (in the end) rushing from the outside edge. So many options..................


Stunt? By the Texans? Wow - this new coaching staff is innovative!

I think this will be a fun season to watch.

TexansTrueFan
05-26-2006, 01:37 AM
Stunt? By the Texans? Wow - this new coaching staff is innovative!

I think this will be a fun season to watch.

yeah well i cant wait for Aug. Pre-Season may even be fun now. COME ON TEXANS !!!!!!!

colts18288
05-26-2006, 09:46 AM
Sweet heavens, a Colts fan? Who let you and your blasphemous graphics on this board? :)

Tell me Colts fan, how do you feel about releasing Edgerrin James? Good move or no?

Talent wise bad move, Edge was not a break away threat, but so much more then a running back. He could pick up a blitz like no other back in the NFL, bailed Manning out of numerous sacks. Always seems to get positive yards. Never big runs but always positive yards.

Salary cap wise, good move. Do you sign a 32 year old runningback to the deal the Cards gave him? Pretty old for a RB by NFL standards dont you think?
Not to mention next year Freeny is a F.A. and you dont have the
money to sign him due to signing Edge to the deal he wanted.

Here is the comment that will draw some serious :challenge from posters....But I will say it anyway and take the heat. As wonderful as everyone believes Edge to be, the passing game opened the holes for him. When teams drop 8 into coverage to stop the pass this leaves gapping holes on the line. I seen it every Sunday, if Edge gets through the line he is gonna get 5 yards because the LB's and the safties are in coverage and have to recover to stop him. This gives him at least 3 yards before someone makes it to him to stop him.

Tell me honestly how many of you fans really worried about Edge busting a 50+ yarder on you. Probably not many, because none of us Colts fans hoped for it because we knew it was not going to happen.

A new R.B. may not be Edge but he is a lot faster then Edge was. Drop 8 into coverage on Peyton and put a back in there that has sub 4.4 in the 40 and this guy may be on D.B. before they know it.

This is just my opinion though and I know alot of people will not agree. But hey what do I know I'm just here to :spy: My opinion is good move.

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2006, 09:53 AM
Here is the comment that will draw some serious :challenge from posters....But I will say it anyway and take the heat. As wonderful as everyone believes Edge to be, the passing game opened the holes for him.

When Edge was injured a few years ago, I seem to remember your offense continuing to perform with guys like Rhodes and Mungro. I think you guys might have a system similar to Denver's where you can snap in a lot of different RB's and still have success. You just haven't had to prove it very often the past few years.

So, yeah, I agree. I don't think losing Edge is a big deal for you guys. It might cost you a couple more sacks and a few more yards but you're still the team to beat.

El Tejano
05-26-2006, 09:58 AM
Talent wise bad move, Edge was not a break away threat, but so much more then a running back. He could pick up a blitz like no other back in the NFL, bailed Manning out of numerous sacks. Always seems to get positive yards. Never big runs but always positive yards.

Salary cap wise, good move. Do you sign a 32 year old runningback to the deal the Cards gave him? Pretty old for a RB by NFL standards dont you think?
Not to mention next year Freeny is a F.A. and you dont have the
money to sign him due to signing Edge to the deal he wanted.

Here is the comment that will draw some serious :challenge from posters....But I will say it anyway and take the heat. As wonderful as everyone believes Edge to be, the passing game opened the holes for him. When teams drop 8 into coverage to stop the pass this leaves gapping holes on the line. I seen it every Sunday, if Edge gets through the line he is gonna get 5 yards because the LB's and the safties are in coverage and have to recover to stop him. This gives him at least 3 yards before someone makes it to him to stop him.

Tell me honestly how many of you fans really worried about Edge busting a 50+ yarder on you. Probably not many, because none of us Colts fans hoped for it because we knew it was not going to happen.

A new R.B. may not be Edge but he is a lot faster then Edge was. Drop 8 into coverage on Peyton and put a back in there that has sub 4.4 in the 40 and this guy may be on D.B. before they know it.

This is just my opinion though and I know alot of people will not agree. But hey what do I know I'm just here to :spy: My opinion is good move.
I think your argument is understood here. It is why many people wanted Reggie Bush. Only problem is we don't really have a passing game like yalls. Ha Ha Ha.

colts18288
05-26-2006, 10:06 AM
I think your argument is understood here. It is why many people wanted Reggie Bush. Only problem is we don't really have a passing game like yalls. Ha Ha Ha.


Not yet anyway, with the new coaching staff.......2 maybe 3 years you guys are legit payoff contenders on a yearly basis. Carr is a product of the retards that you poor fans had in your front office. Can only play with the toys your given, correct? If you got no toys, or the toys got no instructions why have the toy. I predict Texans are the suprise of the AFC this year. Next year wild card. IMHO.

thunderkyss
05-26-2006, 10:16 AM
Think about it.

Mario can line up at DE or further inside. What if Mario lines up at DE, and then half-way through the QB's cadence Mario switches with someone at the tackle spot? The QB thought Mario was lining up at DE to rush from the outside edge, and the QB (Manning?) changes the call to a running play up the middle to avoid Mario.......but Mario switches and lines up further inside in anticipation of the offense's audible.
So many options..................


Seriously.......... if I were an offense, I wouldn't want to run up the middle against Robaire & Weaver..... I'd take it to the weekside, against Peek.

Tell me honestly how many of you fans really worried about Edge busting a 50+ yarder on you. Probably not many, because none of us Colts fans hoped for it because we knew it was not going to happen.

This is just my opinion though and I know alot of people will not agree. But hey what do I know I'm just here to :spy: My opinion is good move.

Personally, I don't expect any running back to go for 50 yards... if he does, someone on my D screwed up more than that running back excelled. Defensive Coordinator, Safety, some one goofed.

But I'm constantly worried about the guy who can pick up the first, regardless of down and distance out of the backfield. And the Edge was one of those.

I'm shocked really, that a Colts fan would feel the way you do. Smart move... maybe so. But Edgerin James is a Colt, and if I were a fan, I wouldn't want to see him in any other colors........

And while it is true, that your passing game opens up your running game. But it wasn't always that way. The Edge has made it possible(I think) for you to get your game where it is today. If Peyton had been picking his rear off the ground after everysnap......... luckily, you had the Edge, and you won some games because of it.

I think the CBA should include a tenure clause, where you should only use 75/80 percent of a seasoned Vet(7 years with a team)'s salary against the cap.

Emmit in Arizona?? Larry Allen in SF?? Jerry Rice a Raider?? McNair in Baltimore?? come on......... when will this madness end?? The only one getting screwed, is the player. He has to leave a team that he helped build, and go to one of the worst teams in the league, and end his career as a burnt up has been that didn't recognize when it was time to leave the game.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-26-2006, 10:18 AM
Not yet anyway, with the new coaching staff.......2 maybe 3 years you guys are legit payoff contenders on a yearly basis. Carr is a product of the retards that you poor fans had in your front office. Can only play with the toys your given, correct? If you got no toys, or the toys got no instructions why have the toy. I predict Texans are the suprise of the AFC this year. Next year wild card. IMHO.


I like that comment. Not many can grasp that concept. That is why Reggie was not the best pick at this time. Kube is taking the right direction by building the team he wants step by step.

jerek
05-26-2006, 10:25 AM
Talent wise bad move, Edge was not a break away threat, but so much more then a running back. He could pick up a blitz like no other back in the NFL, bailed Manning out of numerous sacks. Always seems to get positive yards. Never big runs but always positive yards.

Salary cap wise, good move. Do you sign a 32 year old runningback to the deal the Cards gave him? Pretty old for a RB by NFL standards dont you think?
Not to mention next year Freeny is a F.A. and you dont have the
money to sign him due to signing Edge to the deal he wanted.

Here is the comment that will draw some serious :challenge from posters....But I will say it anyway and take the heat. As wonderful as everyone believes Edge to be, the passing game opened the holes for him. When teams drop 8 into coverage to stop the pass this leaves gapping holes on the line. I seen it every Sunday, if Edge gets through the line he is gonna get 5 yards because the LB's and the safties are in coverage and have to recover to stop him. This gives him at least 3 yards before someone makes it to him to stop him.

Tell me honestly how many of you fans really worried about Edge busting a 50+ yarder on you. Probably not many, because none of us Colts fans hoped for it because we knew it was not going to happen.

A new R.B. may not be Edge but he is a lot faster then Edge was. Drop 8 into coverage on Peyton and put a back in there that has sub 4.4 in the 40 and this guy may be on D.B. before they know it.

This is just my opinion though and I know alot of people will not agree. But hey what do I know I'm just here to :spy: My opinion is good move.

Nah, good call on your part. Edg to me was like an improved version of Domanick Davis: not a burner, but a very solid all-round threat and always seemed to bang out good yards on every carry. And yeah, I am sure he benefitted from the pass game, it's just the nature of things.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not sad to see him go. And I would probably agree with your take on it: sucks to lose the talent, but wasn't worth the dollars he was asking for, at this point in his career.

Brandon420tx
05-26-2006, 11:16 AM
I think the CBA should include a tenure clause, where you should only use 75/80 percent of a seasoned Vet(7 years with a team)'s salary against the cap.

Emmit in Arizona?? Larry Allen in SF?? Jerry Rice a Raider?? McNair in Baltimore?? come on......... when will this madness end?? The only one getting screwed, is the player. He has to leave a team that he helped build, and go to one of the worst teams in the league, and end his career as a burnt up has been that didn't recognize when it was time to leave the game.

Don't forget B. Favre in Green Bay.... oh wait ... oops :cool: :rolleyes:

colts18288
05-26-2006, 04:02 PM
Nah, good call on your part. Edg to me was like an improved version of Domanick Davis: not a burner, but a very solid all-round threat and always seemed to bang out good yards on every carry. And yeah, I am sure he benefitted from the pass game, it's just the nature of things.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not sad to see him go. And I would probably agree with your take on it: sucks to lose the talent, but wasn't worth the dollars he was asking for, at this point in his career.


I was amazed Cards offered him what they did, For a while I believed that the draft was so beep with R.B.s we might get him reasonable. But the more I watch of this kid we drafted the more impressed I get. For those of you that have never seen him play take a look see at him, let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8n2fUvNug

He may impress a few of you, some maybe not. But he looks like he's a keeper so far. Loves to workout and study the playbook, should make him buds with Peyton and that can only benifit us, the more they talk the better he gets.

By the way, love your 1st round pick. :superman: gonna be a bigger asset then Bush ever would have. IMO.

real
05-26-2006, 04:07 PM
I was amazed Cards offered him what they did, For a while I believed that the draft was so beep with R.B.s we might get him reasonable. But the more I watch of this kid we drafted the more impressed I get. For those of you that have never seen him play take a look see at him, let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8n2fUvNug

He may impress a few of you, some maybe not. But he looks like he's a keeper so far. Loves to workout and study the playbook, should make him buds with Peyton and that can only benifit us, the more they talk the better he gets.

By the way, love your 1st round pick. :superman: gonna be a bigger asset then Bush ever would have. IMO.

He played in houston at sharpstown high...

colts18288
05-26-2006, 04:15 PM
He played in houston at sharpstown high...

I realize that, but any fan base outside of Texas may not know him so I was pointing this out for them, but thanks that sheds even more light on it for those fans of the Texans that reside outside of your state.

aj.
05-26-2006, 04:29 PM
He played quarterback at Sharpstown. Nice RB but no Edge.

TwinSisters
05-26-2006, 09:05 PM
I think the CBA should include a tenure clause, where you should only use 75/80 percent of a seasoned Vet(7 years with a team)'s salary against the cap.

Emmit in Arizona?? Larry Allen in SF?? Jerry Rice a Raider?? McNair in Baltimore?? come on......... when will this madness end?? The only one getting screwed, is the player. He has to leave a team that he helped build, and go to one of the worst teams in the league, and end his career as a burnt up has been that didn't recognize when it was time to leave the game.

I agree. What they should have done was just charged the net amount away from the guaranteed pay rate to the salary cap. Meaning only players getting paid more then the basic min needs to be calculated for parity or team salary control.

Vinny
05-26-2006, 09:30 PM
Emmit in Arizona?? Larry Allen in SF?? Jerry Rice a Raider?? McNair in Baltimore?? come on......... when will this madness end?? The only one getting screwed, is the player. He has to leave a team that he helped build, and go to one of the worst teams in the league, and end his career as a burnt up has been that didn't recognize when it was time to leave the game. There is no madness, most of those guys cashed some pretty large checks at the end of their careers. Many players consider the NFL their employer and the team is just the branch of the larger corporation. Players change team for lots of reasons including money. Teams aren't loyal to players and the players understand this. Most guys don't mind transferring to another city if the pay is right. I don't disagree with your larger point though. I think they need to take care of their past players first though. There are lots of ex-players with physical problems and tiny pensions.

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2006, 09:33 PM
Many players consider the NFL their employer and the team is just the branch of the larger corporation.

That's a very good way of looking at it. I hadn't thought of that before.

TwinSisters
05-27-2006, 06:33 AM
Many players consider the NFL their employer and the team is just the branch of the larger corporation.

Ah yes, but then enters the extremely interesting dynamic of sports in general; the Fan.

Example: Emmitt Smith going to Arizona.

The conventional wisdom is that Smith had to go to Arizona because it was too costly to pay his veteran's tab, not so much that they didn't want to keep him on the team or that Emmitt wanted to play somewhere else. It rewards the fan to be able to have the option to keep a veteran on their team and not have to cut him loose because of his cap hit ( a cap hit that is more about his age then how he makes the team over competitive due to more money spent )

usually guys that get a lotta love from their fans and team tend to return the favour. Earl and Emmitt both modern and pre have some real love their cities, fans, and teams.

You have to admit that a 10 year player is no where near as dangerous a 4 year player in his prime ( on average ), yet both will often have similiar cap hits.

So I guess what I am saying is that you shouldn't punish the fans that like players with an age hit. The only thing that should be applying to the cap is the open market value, because you cannot reduce veterans pay to a level that is competitive with younger players.

Emmitt would lose his roster spot, not because of performance alone, but because he cannot reduce his pay to be on the same level with a rookie or younger player.

This not exactly how it went, but it is close and those were factors.

If you quantify a player performance with one number
Smith = 5
Rookie = 5

the cheaper player wins the roster spot and the money is not working toward parity.
---

but then again I guess Ralph Wilson would still complain that large market teams can keep their veterans and make more money on jersey sales and solidify their fan bases more readily! :)

nevermind then...

TheCD
05-27-2006, 02:13 PM
Emmit in Arizona?? Larry Allen in SF?? Jerry Rice a Raider?? McNair in Baltimore?? come on......... when will this madness end?? The only one getting screwed, is the player. He has to leave a team that he helped build, and go to one of the worst teams in the league, and end his career as a burnt up has been that didn't recognize when it was time to leave the game.



Let's face it, these guys get paid top dollars to do what they do. They can always take a pay-cut if the REALLY want to stay on a team, the Patriots' players have been doing it for years. The reason they leave is simple: they want more money. The parity exists for a reason now and whether we like our veterans leaving or not, they do. But it makes a much more exciting game for those like us Texans who always have real hope that next year we could be in the playoffs.

Revolution
05-28-2006, 08:10 AM
Salary cap wise, good move. Do you sign a 32 year old runningback to the deal the Cards gave him? Pretty old for a RB by NFL standards dont you think?

HUH??? Last I checked James was about 28 years old. He's not washed up.

Are you sure you are a Colts fan? :spy: :jk:

Brandon420tx
05-28-2006, 08:18 AM
Edited ... because, I noticed his sarcasm...

dat_boy_yec
05-28-2006, 12:30 PM
Talent wise bad move, Edge was not a break away threat, but so much more then a running back. He could pick up a blitz like no other back in the NFL, bailed Manning out of numerous sacks. Always seems to get positive yards. Never big runs but always positive yards.

Salary cap wise, good move. Do you sign a 32 year old runningback to the deal the Cards gave him? Pretty old for a RB by NFL standards dont you think?
Not to mention next year Freeny is a F.A. and you dont have the
money to sign him due to signing Edge to the deal he wanted.

Here is the comment that will draw some serious :challenge from posters....But I will say it anyway and take the heat. As wonderful as everyone believes Edge to be, the passing game opened the holes for him. When teams drop 8 into coverage to stop the pass this leaves gapping holes on the line. I seen it every Sunday, if Edge gets through the line he is gonna get 5 yards because the LB's and the safties are in coverage and have to recover to stop him. This gives him at least 3 yards before someone makes it to him to stop him.

Tell me honestly how many of you fans really worried about Edge busting a 50+ yarder on you. Probably not many, because none of us Colts fans hoped for it because we knew it was not going to happen.

A new R.B. may not be Edge but he is a lot faster then Edge was. Drop 8 into coverage on Peyton and put a back in there that has sub 4.4 in the 40 and this guy may be on D.B. before they know it.

This is just my opinion though and I know alot of people will not agree. But hey what do I know I'm just here to :spy: My opinion is good move.

The question isn't about running with your new RB, but his blitz pick-up. That is what made James so valuable to your team. How many sacks did he prevent. Now that you have a rookie this yr. will be more difficult for your team. If teams start successfully applying pressure to Manning their manueverability increases and they don't have to drop eight into coverage all the time. The Colts allowed the least sacks this previous season and James was a part of that. By implication this means Peyton was the least pressured QB in the league (on the field anyways) How do you think he will handle the pressure without James picking up the blitz.

dat_boy_yec
05-28-2006, 12:41 PM
]']Maybe the Weaver signing was due to TJ. He is now my number 1 hated Texan.


Ummm...Weaver or TJ?

srstex
05-28-2006, 01:04 PM
Babin-Smith-Weaver-Williams, as long as Babin has one side, the running plays will go to the other. Watching the games bare out the fact no-one runs at Babin, with good reason he sheds blockers and makes stops as fast as any DE in the game. If williams is half the DE the Texans dratfed him as, we are good to go on the line. I believe in my coaching steff, I believe in the decisions of my coaching staff ! 4 now.

aj.
05-28-2006, 01:13 PM
... as long as Babin has one side, the running plays will go to the other. Watching the games bare out the fact no-one runs at Babin, with good reason he sheds blockers and makes stops as fast as any DE in the game.
http://www.cycleworldathens.com/images/cycleworldathens/bug%20eyes%202160.jpg

stevo3883
05-28-2006, 02:41 PM
Babin-Smith-Weaver-Williams, as long as Babin has one side, the running plays will go to the other. Watching the games bare out the fact no-one runs at Babin, with good reason he sheds blockers and makes stops as fast as any DE in the game. If williams is half the DE the Texans dratfed him as, we are good to go on the line. I believe in my coaching steff, I believe in the decisions of my coaching staff ! 4 now.

Jason, is that you?

colts18288
05-28-2006, 04:41 PM
The question isn't about running with your new RB, but his blitz pick-up. That is what made James so valuable to your team. How many sacks did he prevent. Now that you have a rookie this yr. will be more difficult for your team. If teams start successfully applying pressure to Manning their manueverability increases and they don't have to drop eight into coverage all the time. The Colts allowed the least sacks this previous season and James was a part of that. By implication this means Peyton was the least pressured QB in the league (on the field anyways) How do you think he will handle the pressure without James picking up the blitz.

I would imagine alot more 3 step drops, get the ball out quick. Yes Edge was a big asset in this area, but at his age and the contract he wanted. This would have meant we could not sign Freeny at the end of this year and Bob Sanders next. I think Bill Polian made the right move. Let me ask you this, if your team had to either lose a R.B. like Edge or Guys like Freeny and Sanders what would you want your G.M. to do. Edge is 32, that's the back end of most R.B. careers, I dont see signing him for 4-5 years and only getting 2-3 years production out of him. Sentamental value means squat to me, Edge was great. But like all fans I want a Superbowl so bad I can taste it, the longer my team is able to hold the core group of players together the better our chances, we lost 1 but are know able to keep 2. Sign them all and sooner or later we end up looking like the TITANS. Salary cap H E (double hockey sticks).

That would leave you guys all alone at the top of the division.................I see what your doing................It all makes sense now......

Revolution
05-28-2006, 04:51 PM
Edge is 32, that's the back end of most R.B. careers, I dont see signing him for 4-5 years and only getting 2-3 years production out of him.

I guess you didn't see my first post. James is only 27 (birthdate 08/01/78), not 32. With a RB, that is a big difference. He will be 28 when this season starts.

As I said before, are you sure you are a Colts fan??? His number does NOT indicate his age!! :) :francis:

Edge's page from NFL.com: Birthdate: 08/01/78 (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133320)

dat_boy_yec
05-28-2006, 05:29 PM
I would imagine alot more 3 step drops, get the ball out quick. Yes Edge was a big asset in this area, but at his age and the contract he wanted. This would have meant we could not sign Freeny at the end of this year and Bob Sanders next. I think Bill Polian made the right move. Let me ask you this, if your team had to either lose a R.B. like Edge or Guys like Freeny and Sanders what would you want your G.M. to do. Edge is 32, that's the back end of most R.B. careers, I dont see signing him for 4-5 years and only getting 2-3 years production out of him. Sentamental value means squat to me, Edge was great. But like all fans I want a Superbowl so bad I can taste it, the longer my team is able to hold the core group of players together the better our chances, we lost 1 but are know able to keep 2. Sign them all and sooner or later we end up looking like the TITANS. Salary cap H E (double hockey sticks).

That would leave you guys all alone at the top of the division.................I see what your doing................It all makes sense now......

What poor lil' ole' me. I couldn't possibly conceive what you're talking about.

I don't know how easy of a time you'll have re-signing Freeney considering he's seeking to become the highest paid player in the NFL. (according to ESPN insider of May 26. You guys already have the top paid QB and the highest paid WR corps already. I would have kept the less premium position. Then again that's just me :stirpot: (What do us Texans fans know about the Colts right.) Also what will happen with June and Mathis next yr. I dunno maybe you could enlighten us. I mean I would just hate to see you guys fall from the top of the division. :poker:

More three step drops, wouldn't Manning be putting himself under more pressure like that. I mean it's not like we have dealt with 3-step drops here in Houston. :sarcasm: Oh well good luck with that. It's not like you're team's gonna need it. :stirpot:

Trapped
05-28-2006, 05:30 PM
lol at that guy saying james is 32, u mean that's his jersey number. lmao