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View Full Version : What do you expect from Mario Williams his rookie season?


dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 09:51 PM
I'm a put it out there like this. I expect double digit sacks not only that but if Mario doesn't get the rookie record in sacks I will be disappointed. I come to this conclusion from past performances and if Mario is a better prospect than Peppers (and I think he is) then that record should have his name on it. Peppers played weakside so I was surprised that he didn't get the record over Freeney. Maybe that was a side effect of playing weakside. However Freeney got the record playing strong-side. Mario playing strong-side may be hard, but it should definetely be within his abilities. Like Peppers, Mario is coming onto a line that won't allow teams to focus solely on Williams. Unlike Peppers, Williams can still improve vastly on his pass-rushing skills.

Not only that, but I expect him to be in the top ten for tackles for loss next yr. basically I expect him to live up to his expectations. I expect teams to not want to run to his side I expect teams to double and maybe even triple team him. I expect him to still rack up #s.

Point of this is what to expect, I won't be dissappointed (to bad) if he doesn't reach these #s, but that is what I expect. So What do you expect from his 1st season?

Mightymike
05-24-2006, 09:57 PM
only hall of famers put up #'s when they get double and triple teamed, and you expect him to be of that caliber as a rookie??????

Brandon420tx
05-24-2006, 09:58 PM
To help our team win 10+ games. Stats are meaningless to me.

Edit,
oh yea, to make bone crushing hits that are heard from the stands...

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2006, 10:02 PM
:mario: to be crazy fresh :mario:

mexican_texan
05-24-2006, 10:05 PM
I don't expect double digit sacks, as teams would double team him when he gets past five. What I expect is for him to improve our line, therefore improve our defense, therefore, improve our team. What I expect out of Mario is picks for the DBs.

TexanFan881
05-24-2006, 10:06 PM
To help our team win 10+ games. Stats are meaningless to me.

I could care less how many sacks Mario gets too. As long as he can pressure the QB and if we win games he is doing his job. If we go out and win, every player on the team did what they all are there to do: win. :texflag:

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:11 PM
wow umm well unlike yall I do care how well mario plays.

he better get 10-15 sacks to justify his ridiculous salary.

Brandon420tx
05-24-2006, 10:13 PM
We aren't saying we don't care how he plays, we're saying the only stat important to us is the Win Loss column.

And in my case, the Big Hit Column

edo783
05-24-2006, 10:18 PM
The only people who are trying to set rediculouse expectations like these are those who are miffed that their guy (VY mostly but some RBs also) wasn't picked. That way they can whine till the cows come home that he is a bust, bad choice etc., etc. etc. on and on and on and on till everyone else wants to throttle them. If he gets 6-8 sacks (that would tie the team record) that would be pretty darn good for a rookie.

TexanFan881
05-24-2006, 10:20 PM
If he gets 6-8 sacks (that would tie the team record) that would be pretty darn good for a rookie.

I agree 100%. A lot of people are setting a standard for him to get 10 or more sacks or he's a complete bust. It's like they almost want to be a bust because that is very hard to do. I'm just happy we got a lot better value with our #1 pick this year than the 49ers got last year.

mapleleaf
05-24-2006, 10:24 PM
Well I expect from him to make at least as much sacks as much as Carr got by the opposing DL.

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:24 PM
The only people who are trying to set rediculouse expectations like these are those who are miffed that their guy (VY mostly but some RBs also) wasn't picked. That way they can whine till the cows come home that he is a bust, bad choice etc., etc. etc. on and on and on and on till everyone else wants to throttle them. If he gets 6-8 sacks (that would tie the team record) that would be pretty darn good for a rookie.

or people that think that a guy making $54 million should produce pro-bowl numbers

it's like with Carr, we dont hate him, but he hasnt produced to match his salary./

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:25 PM
Sacks are overrated, QB hurries are almost just as good. The thing I'll look for next year is to see if Mario can consistently get after the QB, frustrate him, and force him into bad throws. If he can do that I'll be more than pleased with him.

Last year QBs threw for a comp.% over 65% and had a ypc of over 11.6 yards, that is rediculous and absolutely unexceptable.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:26 PM
or people that think that a guy making $54 million should produce pro-bowl numbers

it's like with Carr, we dont hate him, but he hasnt produced to match his salary./

not in his first year, can we please let this guy grow as a player

TexanFan881
05-24-2006, 10:26 PM
or people that think that a guy making $54 million should produce pro-bowl numbers

it's like with Carr, we dont hate him, but he hasnt produced to match his salary./

It's his first year. He will live up to his $275K base salary this year. Give him some time.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:29 PM
]or people that think that a guy making $54 million should produce pro-bowl numbers[/B]

it's like with Carr, we dont hate him, but he hasnt produced to match his salary./

If we drafted Vince, he would be making alot more than that and he's not going to be putting up pro-bowl numbers in his first year or the near future, so should he be labeled a bust as well if he doesn't

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:32 PM
If we drafted Vince, he would be making alot more than that and he's not going to be putting up pro-bowl numbers in his first year or the near future, so should he be labeled a bust as well if he doesn't

#1 Mario got the highest rookie contract in history, Vince implied he would take a hometown discount to play here

#2 no one said mario would be a bust if he doesnt put up pro bowl numbers, but that he needs to perform to match his insane contract. there is nothing wrong with this statement.

#3 vince isnt expected to start his rookie year. no quarterback is. so the comparison is apples to oranges. come back in year 3 and then we can talk about a qb.

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:33 PM
not in his first year, can we please let this guy grow as a player

yes, in his first year. he is supposed to be a bigger better peppers, who won droy and had 12 sacks.

it isn't wrong to expect him to exceed this, being the superior prospect.

CMoak1982
05-24-2006, 10:34 PM
I absolutely love the Mario pick, but I still would like to see him produce. If he gets 8 sacks and 3-6 forced fumbles, and a few tackles for a loss, this probably means the rest of our team is getting in on in too and the d backs are getting turnovers. How well he does is a big factor on how well our d does. So I would really like to see him produce. I'm not going to call him a bust if he doesn't because I think he can be special and I know it'll be hard as a rookie but didnt Peppers get 10 his rookie season and Freeney got 13 or 14 didn't he. I would like to see comparable sack numbers but if not he'll produce a better defense anyways just by being there.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:37 PM
#1 Mario got the highest rookie contract in history, Vince implied he would take a hometown discount to play here

#2 no one said mario would be a bust if he doesnt put up pro bowl numbers, but that he needs to perform to match his insane contract. there is nothing wrong with this statement.

#3 vince isnt expected to start his rookie year. no quarterback is. so the comparison is apples to oranges. come back in year 3 and then we can talk about a qb.

#1 Next years #1 ovrl player will get the highest rookie contract in history, it goes up every year.

#2 your rediculous if you really think Vince would come here for any less, especially, being a QB taken #1 ovrl.

#3 your giving Young 3 years to develop, but Mario has to come in and be Reggie White from day 1, thats the reason why its not comparing apples to oranges, I was just being as unfair as you were.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:40 PM
yes, in his first year. he is supposed to be a bigger better peppers, who won droy and had 12 sacks.

it isn't wrong to expect him to exceed this, being the superior prospect.

Peppers was a year older and has probowl caliber players stretched across his entire Dline, again its not just the player but the system and position a player comes into.

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:42 PM
we're not exactly sporting crap on our line either...

Williams is in very good position to excell this season, the dline has an insane amount of $$ tied into it

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 10:44 PM
#3 your giving Young 3 years to develop, but Mario has to come in and be Reggie White from day 1, thats the reason why its not comparing apples to oranges, I was just being as unfair as you were.

Im giving Vince two years, much like michael vick.

williams needs to come in and be like julius peppers.

DE is not QB, not even close. DE is about getting upfield, period. qb is infinitely harder to play

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:45 PM
we're not exactly sporting crap on our line either...

Williams is in very good position to excell this season, the dline has an insane amount of $$ tied into it

Our Dline was ranked about last in sacks for the past 3 years, and now we have tweeners rotating in and out of the line (until Peek can prove otherwise). The Panthers have the best front 4 in all of football, there is no comparison.

The knicks have serious $$ tied into them also, doesn't exactly mean they are having success does it.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 10:48 PM
Im giving Vince two years, much like michael vick.

williams needs to come in and be like julius peppers.

DE is not QB, not even close. DE is about getting upfield, period. qb is infinitely harder to play

Hey Big Ben was able to come in from day 1, wasn't he. Atleast thats what your argument with Williams is, Peppers did it so Williams can too, right. So Big Ben did it, so Vince better, do you see why that argument doesn't work now.

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2006, 10:52 PM
williams needs to come in and be like julius peppers.

I certainly do not want that. Peppers was suspended for four games for failing a drug test.

Next please. :fireball: :bowser:

dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 11:02 PM
I don't get why everyone is downplaying expectations for Mario. Freeney came into the league and set the rookie record, after that he has been consistent. He plays strongside so he get's doubled up on and still produces. Mario has to produce period. I mean how does that sound. He made no sacks, he made no tackles, but I'm happy because he made the defense better. He himself should be aiming higher than any of us. He should expect a sack a game and yet here we are saying we should expect 6-8 sacks. I'm not saying those are the numbers he should get, but damn why are our expectations so low. I would hate for Mario to think he doesn't have to produce because we don't EXPECT him to. If Bush came in here and had less than a thousand yds. he would be a disappointment. Not a bust. Same thing with Mario if he doesn't cause an immedeate impact he would be a disappointment not a bust. The guy is getting paid he should earn that cash. He should sack Peyton, Leftwhich, and whoever is in the Titans backfield multiple times. He should make everyone realize why he was the #1 pick. Anything else would be disappointing.

It just seems that people are already making excuses for him before he even hits the field. He's a rookie, he's playing RE, he's gonna get doubled and tripled teamed. Forget that Mario is a monstar he has no excuses in my eyes the guy better be merciless out there. He should make my expectations laughable when compared to his own expectations.

Isn't that why he's "SUPER MARIO"?

Jwwillis
05-24-2006, 11:03 PM
Not to mention, comparing Vince to Carr after 3yrs is unfair too since Carr started on an expansion team his rookie yr..."No QB does"????

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2006, 11:09 PM
I don't get why everyone is downplaying expectations for Mario. Freeney came into the league and set the rookie record, after that he has been consistent. He plays strongside so he get's doubled up on and still produces. Mario has to produce period. I mean how does that sound. He made no sacks, he made no tackles, but I'm happy because he made the defense better. He himself should be aiming higher than any of us. He should expect a sack a game and yet here we are saying we should expect 6-8 sacks. I'm not saying those are the numbers he should get, but damn why are our expectations so low. I would hate for Mario to think he doesn't have to produce because we don't EXPECT him to. If Bush came in here and had less than a thousand yds. he would be a disappointment. Not a bust. Same thing with Mario if he doesn't cause an immedeate impact he would be a disappointment not a bust. The guy is getting paid he should earn that cash. He should sack Peyton, Leftwhich, and whoever is in the Titans backfield multiple times. He should make everyone realize why he was the #1 pick. Anything else would be disappointing.

It just seems that people are already making excuses for him before he even hits the field. He's a rookie, he's playing RE, he's gonna get doubled and tripled teamed. Forget that Mario is a monstar he has no excuses in my eyes the guy better be merciless out there. He should make my expectations laughable when compared to his own expectations.

Isn't that why he's "SUPER MARIO"?

Mario will never meet your expectations and therefore will be a failure. That must feel better.

This Mario is made for sacking, that's just what he'll do. One of these days this Mario is going to pass rush all over you. :mario: :fireball: :bowser:

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 11:11 PM
I don't get why everyone is downplaying expectations for Mario. Freeney came into the league and set the rookie record, after that he has been consistent. He plays strongside so he get's doubled up on and still produces. Mario has to produce period. I mean how does that sound. He made no sacks, he made no tackles, but I'm happy because he made the defense better. He himself should be aiming higher than any of us. He should expect a sack a game and yet here we are saying we should expect 6-8 sacks. I'm not saying those are the numbers he should get, but damn why are our expectations so low. I would hate for Mario to think he doesn't have to produce because we don't EXPECT him to. If Bush came in here and had less than a thousand yds. he would be a disappointment. Not a bust. Same thing with Mario if he doesn't cause an immedeate impact he would be a disappointment not a bust. The guy is getting paid he should earn that cash. He should sack Peyton, Leftwhich, and whoever is in the Titans backfield multiple times. He should make everyone realize why he was the #1 pick. Anything else would be disappointing.

It just seems that people are already making excuses for him before he even hits the field. He's a rookie, he's playing RE, he's gonna get doubled and tripled teamed. Forget that Mario is a monstar he has no excuses in my eyes the guy better be merciless out there. He should make my expectations laughable when compared to his own expectations.

Isn't that why he's "SUPER MARIO"?

Nobody is downplaying expectations, we're just trying to be realistic and not trying to put the kid under extreme expectations that will set him up for faliure, as in if he doesn't put up probowl #s in his first year, he's going to be a bust. That is down right rediculous.

Runner
05-24-2006, 11:12 PM
In Williams' first year I expect him to start his progression to the Pro Bowl in year three.

I expect some great plays and some rookie mistakes.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 11:17 PM
In Williams' first year I expect him to start his progression to the Pro Bowl in year three.

I expect some great plays and some rookie mistakes.

That about the same thing I expect. He was able to survive on just raw physical ability in college. In the pros he's going to have to make adjustments and strengthen his technique, as is every other rookie coming into the league.

He'll hold his own though

texplayer2
05-24-2006, 11:26 PM
It doesn't matter what he does we can't go backwards. He is a Texan good or bad. If he gets one sack next year, he will still be a Texan. Expectations would imply you have some kind of recourse if he does not meet them. I told you so would be your only outlet and no one wants to listen to that. If we are still trying to justify his pick, he was #1 overall( He should provide Immediate dividends, but if he does not what are you going to do?)

dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 11:31 PM
Mario will never meet your expectations and therefore will be a failure. That must feel better.

This Mario is made for sacking, that's just what he'll do. One of these days this Mario is going to pass rush all over you. :mario: :fireball: :bowser:

Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think he will meet my expectations. I don't think I'm expecting to much out of him. I'm not expecting a sack a game, I'm not expecting him to have an ungodly amount of tackles. I'm expecting less than a sack a game and 3-4 tackles a game and less than one of those tackles for loss a game. The guy is a first rd. pick a prospect unparalleled in recent history are you really telling me those expectations are impossible.

dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 11:33 PM
Nobody is downplaying expectations, we're just trying to be realistic and not trying to put the kid under extreme expectations that will set him up for faliure, as in if he doesn't put up probowl #s in his first year, he's going to be a bust. That is down right rediculous.

Nobody said he would be a bust. (At least I didn't) There is a big difference between a bust and a disappointment. If anything he should be the one putting himself under extreme expectations.

Texas
05-24-2006, 11:34 PM
Bone Crushing hits! I want basically for him to draw fear in the eyes of other teams for years to come :tease:

Kaiser Toro
05-24-2006, 11:36 PM
Maybe I'm being a homer, but I think he will meet my expectations. I don't think I'm expecting to much out of him. I'm not expecting a sack a game, I'm not expecting him to have an ungodly amount of tackles. I'm expecting less than a sack a game and 3-4 tackles a game and less than one of those tackles for loss a game. The guy is a first rd. pick a prospect unparalleled in recent history are you really telling me those expectations are impossible.

Expectations are high, as they should be. But to tag his succes to numbers is not the way. Sure numbers are part of the "how," but in the end it is about whether the unit gets significantly better.

Carr Bombed
05-24-2006, 11:37 PM
Nobody said he would be a bust. (At least I didn't) There is a big difference between a bust and a disappointment. If anything he should be the one putting himself under extreme expectations.

I didn't say you did and I'm pretty sure he does have high expectations for himself as he should, hopefully he has a Texas sized chip on his shoulder from all the fans in NY chanting overrated as he was trying to enjoy the biggest day in his young life (one of the most classless things I've ever seen).

dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 11:42 PM
It doesn't matter what he does we can't go backwards. He is a Texan good or bad. If he gets one sack next year, he will still be a Texan. Expectations would imply you have some kind of recourse if he does not meet them. I told you so would be your only outlet and no one wants to listen to that. If we are still trying to justify his pick, he was #1 overall( He should provide Immediate dividends, but if he does not what are you going to do?)

Sorry, I disagree. I expect alot of things to happen, all the time. However that doesn't mean they will happen or that I have a recourse in the matter. I expect people to pay me back when I loan them money, but I know that may not happen and when I lend the money I know if my expectations aren't met I will have to live with it. I'm not the type to say I told you so. Because as many times as I'm right there are probably twice as many times that I'm wrong. However that doesn't change my expectations. Sorry if it feels mine are to high, I'm not trying to insult anybody. I just wanted to see what most fellow Texans fan's expected. I don't feel the need to justify any pick that is the player's job.

dm77713
05-24-2006, 11:43 PM
You people are saying that Mario Williams has a huge contract and that he needs to live up to it, sure that makes sense, but most of you would have not been saying the same thing if Reggie Bush was drafted number 1, even though he is a situational runner and wanted more money than Williams. Also, there is no way Vince Young would not have cashed in on being the number one pick, but if that would have happened nobody would expect him to live up to the huge money he would've gotten right away, because he needs time to learn the NFL, well Mario probably could use a little time too

dat_boy_yec
05-24-2006, 11:49 PM
You people are saying that Mario Williams has a huge contract and that he needs to live up to it, sure that makes sense, but most of you would have not been saying the same thing if Reggie Bush was drafted number 1, even though he is a situational runner and wanted more money than Williams. Also, there is no way Vince Young would not have cashed in on being the number one pick, but if that would have happened nobody would expect him to live up to the huge money he would've gotten right away, because he needs time to learn the NFL, well Mario probably could use a little time too

Oh that is B.S. if Bush came to the Texans I would have probably made a similar thread about him. Matter of fact I would have expected more out of Bush than I would have out of Williams because of all the hype surrounding Bush. Add to the fact that Bush is probably as good as he's gonna get I would definetely expect him to earn his money from his first snap. True maybe not most, but the same thing with Williams. Most is a very relative word when you think about it. (By the way if Young had been picked, I would have been titanically pissed.)

Texans86
05-25-2006, 12:33 AM
I don't get why everyone is downplaying expectations for Mario. Freeney came into the league and set the rookie record, after that he has been consistent. He plays strongside so he get's doubled up on and still produces. Mario has to produce period. I mean how does that sound. He made no sacks, he made no tackles, but I'm happy because he made the defense better. He himself should be aiming higher than any of us. He should expect a sack a game and yet here we are saying we should expect 6-8 sacks. I'm not saying those are the numbers he should get, but damn why are our expectations so low. I would hate for Mario to think he doesn't have to produce because we don't EXPECT him to. If Bush came in here and had less than a thousand yds. he would be a disappointment. Not a bust. Same thing with Mario if he doesn't cause an immedeate impact he would be a disappointment not a bust. The guy is getting paid he should earn that cash. He should sack Peyton, Leftwhich, and whoever is in the Titans backfield multiple times. He should make everyone realize why he was the #1 pick. Anything else would be disappointing.

It just seems that people are already making excuses for him before he even hits the field. He's a rookie, he's playing RE, he's gonna get doubled and tripled teamed. Forget that Mario is a monstar he has no excuses in my eyes the guy better be merciless out there. He should make my expectations laughable when compared to his own expectations.

Isn't that why he's "SUPER MARIO"?

I love that you expect him to average one sack a game from day one, when only one player did that last year, DE Derrick Burgess from Oakland with 16 total. Only one player did it in 2004, Dwight Freeney with 16 total. And one person did it in 2003, Michael Strahan with 18.5 total. All of which were in their 4th year or better. Mario will go through growing pain like every single other rookie that has ever entered the NFL. He is getting paid the highest rookie salary because every year the 1st pick breaks the bank. Next year, Brady Quinn will be the highest paid rookie ever (pure speculation of course). If you really want my expectations, it is that his presence on the line will make the other players on the line better...eventually. It could happen as soon as halfway into this season, but I expect the real results to come in his second year.

The worst part of the arguement that he should be like Freeney and Peppers is that he is a complete DE. He plays the run well and rushes the passer well. Freeney is known as a pass rusher, as is Peppers. Mario will be feared for his impact on the entire game.

Only two rookies made the Pro Bowl last year. One played for our team, the other was Shawne Merriman. 31 players picked in last years first round did not make the Pro-Bowl, none of the top ten. Merriman was almost a fluke since he was a tweener and those are always risky. Rookies need time to adjust. Give Mario time, and then see what happens. There's a reason drafts are graded 3-4 years down the line, not immediately.

skillz24
05-25-2006, 12:47 AM
all we need out of mario in his rookie season is consistency and determination. alot of nfl careers are defined by how the players are willing to put the effort needed out in every play. don't get me wrong i owuld love williams to come out like god and have set the sack record, but looking at all the problems we are trying to fix and the problems we have it doesn't look too likely.

you have to understand mario isn't a new peice in an achored system. he is a building block in the foundation of our new system and coaching scheme.

you want stats, here you go.... 63 tackles, 6 sacks, 8 pass deflections, 20+ tackles for loss, 2-3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, and if we are lucky enough 1 td. if he puts those kind of numbers up he will well be worth the 6 year 54 million.

thunderkyss
05-25-2006, 08:33 AM
or people that think that a guy making $54 million should produce pro-bowl numbers

it's like with Carr, we dont hate him, but he hasnt produced to match his salary./

This isn't like the Carr situation at all. Given the situation, Carr did well, and earned the money he was getting paid....... What did we expect Carr to do?? Come in and have a year like Palmer did last year?? in his third year?? If I'm not mistaken, I think he did. He completed 61% of his passes....& got sacked a lot. Palmer completed 67% of his passes, and was only sacked 19 times(Carr 49). Peyton Manning only completed 62% of his passes, sacked 20 times... Eli in his second year is only completing 52%, but alot of people are talking about sending him to the proBowl in 2006. & McNabb completed 58% of his passes, while taking 39 sacks.......

QB ratings...... David had an 83, McNabb 84, Carson 101, and Peyton 94. Look at the offenses Peyton and Carson were in..... throwing the ball... WCO... strecthing the field........ compared to the offense David was in...... Ball control..... don't lose the game..... So they were going to have more TDs... which inflates the QB rating... they should do a TD/Redzone ratio instead, or something like that.
yes, in his first year. he is supposed to be a bigger better peppers, who won droy and had 12 sacks.

it isn't wrong to expect him to exceed this, being the superior prospect.

If we were in a week NFC South, in a week NFC then I'd be with you.. double digit sacks his first year.....

But we're playing a strong AFC conference, where they value the OL...... 4 games in our division alone..... Jax & Indy... Then Tennessee picked up Mawae(I know he's a center, but it shows where they are putting money). Then we play NewEngland & NYJ..... Mario vs D'Brick(mmmmm-mmmm can't wait)... Mario is going to see more Probowlers in his first year, than JP did in his first three.

Our Dline was ranked about last in sacks for the past 3 years, and now we have tweeners rotating in and out of the line (until Peek can prove otherwise). The Panthers have the best front 4 in all of football, there is no comparison.

The knicks have serious $$ tied into them also, doesn't exactly mean they are having success does it.

Sorry, I disagree here. We've got a heck of a DLine on paper. Mario is in a very good position to do his thang.... Peek....... um I'm expecting him to be our Kearse....... Mario is our Peppers..... TJ should live up to his draft spot. and Robaire, Smith, Payne.... the lines just going to open up for them, like the Red Sea....

I don't see where you can get a good double team on this line...

Hey Big Ben was able to come in from day 1, wasn't he. Atleast thats what your argument with Williams is, Peppers did it so Williams can too, right. So Big Ben did it, so Vince better, do you see why that argument doesn't work now.

In all honesty, it looks like the Titans are going to start Vince some time in '06. I wouldn't be surprised if he does pull a RothlisBerger.

I don't get why everyone is downplaying expectations for Mario.

He himself should be aiming higher than any of us. He should expect a sack a game......

I'm with you on that.... Mario gets a big 'ole $6mil bonus(I think) if he gets 12 sacks... I think he's going to get that.. I think he will/should have more sacks than any rookie in '06, but I don't know if he'll get 14 or whatever the rookie sack record is...


I would hate for Mario to think he doesn't have to produce because we don't EXPECT him to.


Agreed.......

If Bush came in here and had less than a thousand yds. he would be a disappointment. Not a bust. Same thing with Mario if he doesn't cause an immedeate impact he would be a disappointment not a bust.

Every one is saying that he should/will make a difference.... an imediate impact.... they're just saying that he can impact the game in many ways, not just sacks

The guy is getting paid he should earn that cash. He should sack Peyton, Leftwhich, and whoever is in the Titans backfield multiple times. He should make everyone realize why he was the #1 pick. Anything else would be disappointing.

I concur....... but I think we disagree on what would justify the pick.


It just seems that people are already making excuses for him before he even hits the field. He's a rookie, he's playing RE, he's gonna get doubled and tripled teamed. Forget that Mario is a monstar he has no excuses in my eyes the guy better be merciless out there. He should make my expectations laughable when compared to his own expectations.

Isn't that why he's "SUPER MARIO"?
He probably expects 2 to 3 sacks a game..... we'll never know. I definitely think it'll be fun to watch.... he's going to be a force to reckon with. He'll be the face of our defense without a doubt.

In all, I see I don't agree with a lot of folks in this thread..... I think it's silly to expect less than 8 sacks...... hopefull to expect more than 12.... I think he can get 12..... I think he definitely should get 10 sacks.....

Come Week 8, I expect to see Tom Jackson talking about him...... " Vince Young.......... you go JACKED UP, courtesy of the 2006 #1 overall draft pick.. Super Mario."

BigBull17
05-25-2006, 09:34 AM
#1 Mario got the highest rookie contract in history, Vince implied he would take a hometown discount to play here

#2 no one said mario would be a bust if he doesnt put up pro bowl numbers, but that he needs to perform to match his insane contract. there is nothing wrong with this statement.

#3 vince isnt expected to start his rookie year. no quarterback is. so the comparison is apples to oranges. come back in year 3 and then we can talk about a qb.

#1 Yeah whatever. He wouldnt have taken a hometown discount, he would have held out and made alot more than Mario. The FO would have been under pressure to sign him and their balls would have been to the fire.

TexanFan881
05-25-2006, 09:38 AM
Like VY would have taken a hometown discount. I think it's more important for us to get an impact player than paying a little less money than we gave Mario for VY to sit on the bench.

El Tejano
05-25-2006, 09:48 AM
I want Mario to break our sack record of 8 set by Jeff Posey in our expansion year. However, I want him to do it with the impression that he is getting better every week and will be better in his sophmore season.

I felt bad for the guy yesterday on ESPN NFL Live. They interview him and then after that they crush him with saying he was a bad pick. I hope this dude plays with a block on his shoulder and at the end of the season is able to brush it off and it falls on the heads of all the dudes at ESPN.

edo783
05-25-2006, 09:56 AM
Please note: Almost all the folks who are demanding extremily high sack numbers from Mario from day one are pretty much the same VY is God crowed and who feel the team took a poo in their Wheaties when they didn't draft VY, and now want to set up the senario where they can whine all the time about Mario if he doesn't set NFL records right out of the gate. They are doing the same kind of stunt regarding expectations for Carr also.

beerlover
05-25-2006, 10:21 AM
I would like to see the Texans stick with a core of d-lineman and mold some consistancy, same is true of the offensive line. Mario needs to handle double teams & the run from the strong side this will open up the weakside for Peek/Babin. I would not be surprised to see across the board higher sack totals for the Texans, if Peek & Babin stay healthy one of them could surprise people with over 10+ sacks.

If they stick with this formula then the numbers should excelerate with Mario somewhere in the double digit range. over the course of a long career in Houston Williams will become the Texans all time sack leader & in range of the NFL all time greats. thats what I expect :fireball:

Tex Trenches
05-25-2006, 10:26 AM
I expect him to intimadate the heck out of oppossing quarterbacks.

TheCD
05-25-2006, 11:05 AM
My hope is that he gets at least 6 sacks (2 on Peyton, 2 on Leftwich, and 2 on Young/Voleck...or 6 on Peyton!).


But I EXPECT him to put a lot of PRESSURE on QB's. I could care less about the sack if he can force a bad throw resulting in interceptions or 4th downs. If he doesn't put a lot of pressure on the QB, or force the double teams and such causing OTHERS to get pressure, then I see him as not living up to his potential.

jerek
05-25-2006, 11:30 AM
wow umm well unlike yall I do care how well mario plays.

he better get 10-15 sacks to justify his ridiculous salary.

FYI rookie salary is a product of draft position, not necessarily expected production. I am assuming you know this, just pointing it out for others.

I will need to see what kind of plays our DC runs before I proclaim Mario to grab the rookie sack record. After watching four years of Prevent, I am hoping for an aggressive mixture of plays. I am hoping that Mario's play will command double teams and that our DC will run a lot of blitzes, to either free Mario of the double teams or allow the other rushers to make plays.

Bottom line Mario could have played in Fangio's D last year and would have given us a whole 4 sacks ... defensive playcalling is as much responsible for the numbers as is individual talent.

Exascor
05-25-2006, 12:34 PM
I'd be happy with 7-9 sacks and thrilled with 10+. I've said this in another thread but him being on the strongside could take some sacks away. It may be setting him up for a tough time getting "stats" to back up his being the #1 pick.

jmerog
05-25-2006, 01:03 PM
for him to stare peyton down ,face mask to facemask,on the ground after a sack, and snarl defiantly, " I'm gonna eat your children!"

If i get a couple of those- i'm good.

santo
05-25-2006, 01:10 PM
I'll be happy if Mario Williams can contribute by just allowing the whole defense to be better. I think with Weaver, Peek and Williams, offenses are going to be busy trying to decide who to cover, which will allow someone to be free. They can't cover everybody. I think that if Williams brings his work horse attitude to every game, and not worry about the numbers, then he will allow the defense as a whole to be better. It's exciting to see that the Texans have brought in new players that will contribute to winning. I also believe Williams is not out there to prove he is the best DE, but that he is willing to place his pride asside and focus on the team on winning games, which in reality is what we ALL want. I'll take Super Bowls over Hall of Famers any day.

real
05-25-2006, 01:12 PM
I also believe Williams is not out there to prove he is the best DE, but that he is willing to place his pride asside and focus on the team on winning games....

What makes u think that ?

santo
05-25-2006, 01:28 PM
What makes u think that ?


With the interviews he has had with the media. The way he carries himself. He seems to be a humble guy.

thunderkyss
05-25-2006, 01:36 PM
Please note: Almost all the folks who are demanding extremily high sack numbers from Mario from day one are pretty much the same VY is God crowed and who feel the team took a poo in their Wheaties when they didn't draft VY, and now want to set up the senario where they can whine all the time about Mario if he doesn't set NFL records right out of the gate. They are doing the same kind of stunt regarding expectations for Carr also.

You've seriously got the blinders on..... it's the RB crowd making this noise.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
05-25-2006, 02:25 PM
#1 Mario got the highest rookie contract in history, Vince implied he would take a hometown discount to play here

#2 no one said mario would be a bust if he doesnt put up pro bowl numbers, but that he needs to perform to match his insane contract. there is nothing wrong with this statement.

#3 vince isnt expected to start his rookie year. no quarterback is. so the comparison is apples to oranges. come back in year 3 and then we can talk about a qb.

If Mario has very few sacks while getting double and triple teamed, but the rest of the defense is getting in on the act - Mario has been a huge success. There are lots of outcomes to a busted offensive play that don't necessarily have a sack involved.

Interception, Pass broken up by CB, Pass Broken up by LB, Pass broken up by D line, Tackle for loss, errant throw, throw out of bounds because of pressure, Intentional Grounding, Fumble, Frustrated O Line starts holding or commits false start or chop blocks or leg whips, etc. etc.

I think you should curl up with your autographed VY poster and a cup of Sanka. Chill for a little while.:texflag:

BigBull17
05-25-2006, 02:29 PM
You've seriously got the blinders on..... it's the RB crowd making this noise.

I agree most of the VY crowd went to the Titans MB...:whip:

TK_Gamer
05-25-2006, 02:39 PM
insane contract? wake up, he got what every no. 1 pick gets. every year the no. 1 pick gets more than the previous year. so ever year the guy who gets picked # 1 will be the highest contract in history. there are exceptions of course but thats usually how it goes. as far as that goes , the writers were even saying the rest of the league loved caserly/mcnair cuz the increase in no. 1 pick salary was actually lower than last year. you know what pressure on the quarterback creates? turnovers, from all sides. it frees up linebackers for turnovers. it causes bad throws wich equals db interceptions, and yes sometimes the de actually gets to the quarterback and gets the sac. myself, i'll be happy if he just causes the other types of turnovers. imho a guy who does that is priceless. and thats why edge is not playing for indy this year. they think its priceless too.

thunderkyss
05-25-2006, 03:53 PM
If Mario has very few sacks while getting double and triple teamed, but the rest of the defense is getting in on the act - Mario has been a huge success.
.:texflag:

If they double/triple team Mario.... Peeks going to kill'em.... or Weaver/Smith..... they'll think they're doubling the wrong guy, and start doubling others...

Mario will end up with two or three 3 sack games at the end of the year.....


hey that sounds kinda familiar..............

:yahoo:

Bamaborn-Texasbred
05-25-2006, 03:56 PM
If they double/triple team Mario.... Peeks going to kill'em.... or Weaver/Smith..... they'll think they're doubling the wrong guy, and start doubling others...

Mario will end up with two or three 3 sack games at the end of the year.....


hey that sounds kinda familiar..............

:yahoo:

Thanks for the love. I respect your opinion.

edo783
05-25-2006, 04:00 PM
You've seriously got the blinders on..... it's the RB crowd making this noise.

Actually, if you check, you would see that Stevo3883 and UTRoalty are VY cult fans. That's also why I used the word "Most" as in "Not all".

cap1
05-25-2006, 04:32 PM
I'm a put it out there like this. I expect double digit sacks not only that but if Mario doesn't get the rookie record in sacks I will be disappointed. I come to this conclusion from past performances and if Mario is a better prospect than Peppers (and I think he is) then that record should have his name on it. Peppers played weakside so I was surprised that he didn't get the record over Freeney. Maybe that was a side effect of playing weakside. However Freeney got the record playing strong-side. Mario playing strong-side may be hard, but it should definetely be within his abilities. Like Peppers, Mario is coming onto a line that won't allow teams to focus solely on Williams. Unlike Peppers, Williams can still improve vastly on his pass-rushing skills.



Don't Forget that Peppers sat out the last 4 games for using Ephedria or something like it.

real
05-25-2006, 04:41 PM
Actually, if you check, you would see that Stevo3883 and UTRoalty are VY cult fans. That's also why I used the word "Most" as in "Not all".

Please don't define me....I haven't the slightest clue what you are referring to...I may have boasted my support of VY, but to call me a cult fan....???? are you serious??? I actually am happy with the pick up of Mario, and would've been happy with either of the top three because IMO they are all elite talents...I haven't stated my opinion anymore than anyone else supporting who they thought the best pick was for the texans...But i'll be paying much more close attention to your post edo...

*edit:For the record I went back and read the guys post that you "grouped" me with as being "cult" fans, and I don't agree with anything he said

hollywood_texan
05-25-2006, 05:36 PM
My expectations really will be on the defense as a whole.

Mario could be such a monster that offenses focus on shutting him down that allows other guys to make plays. Defenses are succesful because of team play and I think Mario should be evaluated as such. In other words, he needs to be the anchor but shouldn't be expected to get the individual stats as long as the defense as a whole gets the stats.

stevo3883
05-25-2006, 05:39 PM
Actually, if you check, you would see that Stevo3883 and UTRoalty are VY cult fans. That's also why I used the word "Most" as in "Not all".

hahahaha

I'm a college football fan, and I wanted the best players.

but hey, if you want to be childish about that go for it.

The Pencil Neck
05-25-2006, 08:07 PM
Don't Forget that Peppers sat out the last 4 games for using Ephedria or something like it.

I know this is tangent to the point you were making but... suspending a professional football player for ephedrine is just silly. That's almost like suspending someone for drinking too much coffee. It's against the rules because it's a very mild performance enhancer but there's no way ephedrine or ma huang should get you suspended for more than a game (if that.)

If anything, it's just an indictment of his intelligence. I compete in drug tested federations where ephedrine (like caffeine) is only against the rules if you test positive for it on the day you compete and I know to not take anything that will make me test positive. That means no sudafed, primatene, or anything like that for a few days before a meet.

It's not like these are anabolic steroids.

Sorry, the whole "performance enhancing drug" thing is a hot button of mine. I mean, if we're going to ban performance enhancing drugs, then let's make athletes stop using pain-killers and anti-inflammatories, too. And then let's get rid of the pads and helmets... blech.

dat_boy_yec
05-25-2006, 08:13 PM
Don't Forget that Peppers sat out the last 4 games for using Ephedria or something like it.

Damn, I had forgotten about that. Another reason Mario should be a monster in his first yr. Also ppl comparing Peppers and saying he played in such a weak division. Freeney came in and did it in the same division Mario is going to play in. To those who don't know the record is 13 set by you guessed it Freeney. Also forgive me if I'm ignorant, but when did Peppers become a pass specialist because last time I checked he played great against the run as well.

If we had wanted 6-8 sacks from a rookie we could've lucked out in the second rd.

Sorry cap1 this wasn't all aimed at you I just had to vent a little bit.

Also I ain't no VY lover or RB crusher even though I liked Bush I've acknowledged Mario long before the draft.

axman40
05-25-2006, 08:19 PM
I expect him to give his best effort when on the field.

:redtowel:

dat_boy_yec
05-25-2006, 08:29 PM
Sorry, I guess the sack record is 14 and a half. My bad.

Nawzer
05-25-2006, 08:37 PM
I expect him to be a disruptive force. Sacks are nice but getting a sack at the end of a blowout game (either winning or losing) means nothing other than nice stats. It's unfortunate that defensive ends are most looked at when they get sacks and that is part of the equation, but Mario Williams has to change opponents gameplans. And if he is able to do that from early on I think him being the no.1 pick will be justified.

Texas
05-26-2006, 12:49 AM
45 sacks and 300 tackles

TwinSisters
05-26-2006, 01:16 AM
It's not like these are anabolic steroids.

Sorry, the whole "performance enhancing drug" thing is a hot button of mine. I mean, if we're going to ban performance enhancing drugs, then let's make athletes stop using pain-killers and anti-inflammatories, too. And then let's get rid of the pads and helmets... blech.

I don't know about the helmets and pads thing, but painkillers as performance enhancing is a pretty good point.

I think the deal with ephedrine is that there is some additional risk to heat stroke and death that the NFL wants to avoid ( that doesn't come as often with painkillers ). BUT then I am sure he was warned more then once about using that particular enhancement drug before he got the 4 game penalty.

phantom17
05-26-2006, 01:54 AM
45 sacks and 300 tackles


This is what I'm thinkin'!:)

thunderkyss
05-26-2006, 09:34 AM
Damn, I had forgotten about that. Another reason Mario should be a monster in his first yr. Also ppl comparing Peppers and saying he played in such a weak division. Freeney came in and did it in the same division Mario is going to play in. To those who don't know the record is 13 set by you guessed it Freeney. Also forgive me if I'm ignorant, but when did Peppers become a pass specialist because last time I checked he played great against the run as well.



In two games against the 4-12 expansion team(in their first year) Freeney collected 2 sacks.

Against the 2-14 Bengals....... 1 sack.

Against the 10-5 Steelers(weak division.... weak schedule) 1 sack.

Against the 11-5 Tennessee Titans....2 sacks over two games.

Against the 12-4 Eagles(weak division.... weak conferance) 1 sack.

Against the 5-11 Cowboys... 2 sacks. ( we could beat them in 2002)

Against the 9-7 Browns(they made the playoffs at 9-7) 1 sack.

Against the 6-10 Jags(once again, we beat them in 2002) 2 sacks.

Not only did he play weak teams, the NFL was pretty weak all together. The Browns made the playoffs with a 9-7 record, and the Falcons slipped in with a 9-6 record......

Then, that's only 12 sacks (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/313800/gamelogs/2002)in the regular season.......... his thirteenth sack must have occured in the playoffs.

Please....... please don't tell me I have to do the same for Peppers.

Kaiser Toro
05-26-2006, 09:41 AM
What a silly debate this is. One side has facts while the other has a crystal ball they bought at a pawn shop and a guinness book of worst records.

real
05-26-2006, 10:01 AM
Not only did he play weak teams, the NFL was pretty weak all together. The Browns made the playoffs with a 9-7 record, and the Falcons slipped in with a 9-6 record......

Then, that's only 12 sacks (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/313800/gamelogs/2002)in the regular season.......... his thirteenth sack must have occured in the playoffs.

Please....... please don't tell me I have to do the same for Peppers.

The falcons played 1 less game ? And do they group stats from the regular season and the playoffs?

TheCD
05-26-2006, 02:29 PM
I know this is tangent to the point you were making but... suspending a professional football player for ephedrine is just silly. That's almost like suspending someone for drinking too much coffee. It's against the rules because it's a very mild performance enhancer but there's no way ephedrine or ma huang should get you suspended for more than a game (if that.)

If anything, it's just an indictment of his intelligence. I compete in drug tested federations where ephedrine (like caffeine) is only against the rules if you test positive for it on the day you compete and I know to not take anything that will make me test positive. That means no sudafed, primatene, or anything like that for a few days before a meet.

It's not like these are anabolic steroids.

Sorry, the whole "performance enhancing drug" thing is a hot button of mine. I mean, if we're going to ban performance enhancing drugs, then let's make athletes stop using pain-killers and anti-inflammatories, too. And then let's get rid of the pads and helmets... blech.



I know this is a controversial subject, but I don't mind the NFL being so strict about drug testing. I'd rather a couple of guys get suspended for silly reasons than there be "unfair advantages" going on, whatever you may consider unfair. I just don't want us to be in the same boat as baseball. I couldn't really be into a football game knowing some guys were juiced...if they didn't give any knockout hits that is!

thunderkyss
05-26-2006, 03:41 PM
The falcons played 1 less game ? And do they group stats from the regular season and the playoffs?


I don't know what was up with the Falcons 15 game season. But if you click the link, you'll see those are the stats for the 2002 regular season.......... I think.

the wonger need food
05-26-2006, 03:51 PM
To those who don't know the record is 13 set by you guessed it Freeney.

The rookie sack record is 14.5, set by Jevon Kearse in '99.

Mario has stated that his goal is to break this record.

run-david-run
05-26-2006, 04:07 PM
Damn, I had forgotten about that. Another reason Mario should be a monster in his first yr. Also ppl comparing Peppers and saying he played in such a weak division. Freeney came in and did it in the same division Mario is going to play in. To those who don't know the record is 13 set by you guessed it Freeney. Also forgive me if I'm ignorant, but when did Peppers become a pass specialist because last time I checked he played great against the run as well.

If we had wanted 6-8 sacks from a rookie we could've lucked out in the second rd.

Sorry cap1 this wasn't all aimed at you I just had to vent a little bit.

Also I ain't no VY lover or RB crusher even though I liked Bush I've acknowledged Mario long before the draft.
Except Freeny got to play aginst us twice a year! Ya know, an expansion team?