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View Full Version : Where is TJ when the season begins?


humbleone
05-22-2006, 04:18 PM
As has been noted often, those of us who love the Texans find out more from the "wired in" members of the MB than the Chronicle's version of a sports section. So... where do you guys see TJ depth chart wise when the season opens? :spy:

El Tejano
05-22-2006, 04:23 PM
I see him behind Payne when the season starts but given Payne's injury history I see him starting somewhere by midseason due to an injured Payne but it basically just speeds up the process of his eventual replacement of Payne. I also see that he looks like a first rounder with the help from the DEs.

TEXANRED
05-22-2006, 04:31 PM
On the bench, again.

With the Texans trying to get Peak, Babin, playing time by moving Weaver to the inside, and Payne and Smith already starting ahead of TJ, could be another long unproductive year for our boy.

Runner
05-22-2006, 04:32 PM
Wired it on not, I'll answer:

I think he is fourth on the DT list. Depending on the rotations, schemes, injuries and his performance when given opportunities, he may not get a lot of playing time.

Brandon420tx
05-22-2006, 04:32 PM
He'll be in the rotation.

Honoring Earl 34
05-22-2006, 04:52 PM
:hunter: I think that the 16th pick in the first round better be fighting for a starters position . You think that TJ should be about to pass Payne ( who 's best at NT ) up .

Last year TJ was out of position , while at FSU another DT named Bunkley did'nt get any noteriety because of TJ . This year Bunkley was the 14th pick in the draft .

Bottom line is Travis Johnson is a good prospect . He's a quick DT with decent size and he scored a 26 on his wonderlich .

infantrycak
05-22-2006, 04:53 PM
I see him behind Payne when the season starts but given Payne's injury history I see him starting somewhere by midseason due to an injured Payne but it basically just speeds up the process of his eventual replacement of Payne. I also see that he looks like a first rounder with the help from the DEs.

Payne has had one significant injury in the last 7 seasons and has played in 16 games out of 16 6 of the last 7 seasons. People are way too fast to slap injury tags on players.

TexanSam
05-22-2006, 05:02 PM
I see Johnson as the 3rd DT. I see him behind Payne and Robaire Smith, but ahead of Babin.

Brandon420tx
05-22-2006, 05:03 PM
I'll give you a chance to edit it before I rag on you.

Blake
05-22-2006, 05:04 PM
I think he will be 1 of 3 starters at DT. The rotation will be so quick, all thee will look like starters.

Honoring Earl 34
05-22-2006, 05:18 PM
The thing you can't do is count TJ out . He was going to be a 1st round draft choice in 2005 by someone and its not fair to pencil him in as another one of CC and company's screw ups . Give him a year under Smith and see .

Bamaborn-Texasbred
05-22-2006, 05:18 PM
Depth on the D Line is fantastic.

When the opposing team's offensive line is starting to wear down in the fourth quarter our D line will still be fresh and fast! Look out Peyton! Look out Leftwich! Talk about two quarterbacks that run in concrete shoes on mollasses (sp?).

This season is going to be so much fun to watch. I'm finally going to get my money's worth on my season tickets. I am absolutely dying to see a game.

real
05-22-2006, 05:24 PM
I see Payne 3rd on the DT. I see him behind Payne and Robaire Smith, but ahead of Babin.


huh ???

HeartofHouston
05-22-2006, 06:13 PM
Personally I think that Johnson is better for us than Payne.. Johnson is quicker and more intense than Payne.. Him and RoBear could be a comple NIGHTMARE on the inside.. and combine that with the fire that Peek brings and add the freakish ability of Mario Williams.

Johnson was completely out of place in our 3-4 defense. Give him a shot in the 4-3 where instead of 5 Olinemen vs 3 D-Linemen.. It's 5 vs 4. So Somebody is gonna get a double team and somebody is gonna be 1 on 1. And with those 4 I would love to see how O-Linemen are gonna handle it...

Hulk75
05-22-2006, 07:26 PM
I think Travis would not hurt at all if he could gain some weight, or just get bigger, he could put on 10 or 15 lbs, would not hurt. He looked like he was not strong enough at times or the olineman were just a little too fast for him last season and got into his pads first and could not get his leverage back.

Or maybe he was not sure where to be and was thinking too much.

I think he is good and will benifit a lot from the new 4-3 and the Super Freak:mario: next to him.

Hulk75
05-22-2006, 07:35 PM
Personally I think that Johnson is better for us than Payne.. Johnson is quicker and more intense than Payne.. Him and RoBear could be a comple NIGHTMARE on the inside.. and combine that with the fire that Peek brings and add the freakish ability of Mario Williams.

Johnson was completely out of place in our 3-4 defense. Give him a shot in the 4-3 where instead of 5 Olinemen vs 3 D-Linemen.. It's 5 vs 4. So Somebody is gonna get a double team and somebody is gonna be 1 on 1. And with those 4 I would love to see how O-Linemen are gonna handle it...
Now yes, before Payne hurt his knee NO way.

Payne was one of the best in the NFL at run stuffing before he hurt his knee, I used to watch him blow up centers and get in the back field and change the rbs direction many times. He may not have gotten the tackle but he had plenty RBs change the hole they were going to.

AND I always wanted to say that Gary Walker when he wanted to play and blow somebody up, nobody could block this guy.

TexanSam
05-22-2006, 07:45 PM
huh ???

Whoops. I meant, I see Johnson 3rd on the DT depth chart. Behind Payne and Smith, but ahead of Babin.

kiwitexansfan
05-22-2006, 07:50 PM
Way ahead of Babin giving that Babin is an End.

I think TJ will start. Payne is a solid defender but doesn't have the burst that TJ. Payne is better suited to a 3-4 nose tackle I think, or a running downs defender. Our O-Line has got to generate pressure for our defense to work and I think that TJ and Smith are the best at doing that....

UberDork
05-22-2006, 09:42 PM
I wonder how tired those big guys get running on and off the field. That seems like a good bit of running if we are going to have a really frequent rotation, and it seems like that would lessen the advantage. I wonder what the happy medium is? Is it stupid to think running over 25 yards every 4 or 5 plays would be in itself fatiguing?

sprtsfanatic
05-22-2006, 11:20 PM
I wonder how tired those big guys get running on and off the field. That seems like a good bit of running if we are going to have a really frequent rotation, and it seems like that would lessen the advantage. I wonder what the happy medium is? Is it stupid to think running over 25 yards every 4 or 5 plays would be in itself fatiguing?

I could see your concern for the situation but your forgetting the rest they will get as our new offense with AJ, E-Mo, DD, Putz, and Carr moving the rock down the field killing clock, gaining yards, and putting up points.

keyfro
05-23-2006, 12:13 AM
well let's look at the talent level we have at DT and be happy...we have changed defensive schemes and still have no real holes along the d-line...we have three 1st round picks along the d-line with babin, tj, and mario...one of which will start(not exactly good numbers for us) however the other two plan to be apart of a heavy rotation...a rotation which i believe will be good for us...we will have have a tired d-line...since we basically have starters coming off the bench...peyton and byron should be scared...peek and mario should be starting consistantly along with weaver and robaire...payne will be on the field a lot of the times when we are facing a run based offense...i think our depth allows us to throw a different starting line-up given our oponent each week...for example

if we face a run first offense like carolina we probably would have this d-line starting

williams smith payne weaver

for a heavy pass offense this d-line starting

peek smith weaver williams with TJ and babin coming in frequently

so i wouldn't worry too much about whose on the field for how long...it's all about this offense being productive and competitive which is something we have not been for years

MorKnolle
05-23-2006, 12:14 AM
I see him behind Payne, Robaire, and Weaver at DT (Weaver will likely be part-time DT), so barring injuries I don't see him playing a whole lot other than on goalline situations.

TwinSisters
05-23-2006, 12:45 AM
well our goal line and our third and short should look pretty damn good, when you can throw a 1st round pick in from the bench that is.

El Tejano
05-23-2006, 09:47 AM
Payne has had one significant injury in the last 7 seasons and has played in 16 games out of 16 6 of the last 7 seasons. People are way too fast to slap injury tags on players.
Payne was hurt the season before last and got hurt again at the end of last season. I'm not slapping injury tags on anybody, but I too think he is on his way out. I just think he will get injured again at some point in the season and Johnson will replace him sooner than later.

jerek
05-23-2006, 09:52 AM
On the bench, again.

With the Texans trying to get Peak, Babin, playing time by moving Weaver to the inside, and Payne and Smith already starting ahead of TJ, could be another long unproductive year for our boy.

On the bench. Where he belongs. The guy is still a "project" insofar as he is a relatively lazy athlete and practice work ethic. Hopefully our new staff will succeed in an attitude transformation. But for now, we simply have better players who will be fighting for his spot.

V Man
05-23-2006, 10:42 AM
I feel he is the player who will benefit the most in the change of defensive schemes. He won't start but will see plenty of PT. And from the DT position, he will be able to make more plays that we expect from a 1st rounder.

real
05-23-2006, 10:58 AM
what about this line.... Peek Williams Weaver Babin
as a pass rushing line

BigBull17
05-23-2006, 11:09 AM
what about this line.... Peek Williams Weaver Babin
as a pass rushing line

I think TJ is a better pass rusher than Weaver so,
Peek-Williams-TJ-Babin

real
05-23-2006, 11:14 AM
I think TJ is a better pass rusher than Weaver so,
Peek-Williams-TJ-Babin

That was my first inclination, but I went with weaver because T.J is just unproven at this point

red bull
05-23-2006, 02:59 PM
Payne was hurt the season before last and got hurt again at the end of last season. I'm not slapping injury tags on anybody, but I too think he is on his way out. I just think he will get injured again at some point in the season and Johnson will replace him sooner than later.
You're off by a year. He was hurt in the last game of 2004. He was healthy all last year.

BigBull17
05-23-2006, 03:05 PM
That was my first inclination, but I went with weaver because T.J is just unproven at this point
Fair enough. Buut he would be given a chance if Weaver was an innefectual pass rusher.

real
05-23-2006, 03:53 PM
Fair enough. Buut he would be given a chance if Weaver was an innefectual pass rusher.

I don't know about that either...It just depends on how highly Kubes think's of him.... I could easily see kubiak thinking...hmmm....this guy could be a dominant force inside for us....BUT at the same time i can c him thinking....This guy is unproven, and i have Vet's on the bench....i think i'll stick him @ 3 on the depth chart....just depends on how he is evaluted

{* The "He" in this post refer to Travis Johnson}

fastpitchwoof
05-24-2006, 08:04 AM
I heard things about Mario, Babin/Peek, Smith, Payne, and Weaver. I haven't seen or heard anything about TJ. What is going on with him. I was thinking that he would do well in the 4-3 but I haven't heard anything about how he is doing.

:shoot:

infantrycak
05-24-2006, 08:33 AM
Rookie Mario Williams is playing opposite Peek and Babin on the left side. Free-agent signee Anthony Weaver is taking the majority of his repetitions at right tackle, leaving Seth Payne and Robaire Smith to alternate at the other tackle position.

From today's Chronicle article on Babin. Notably absent?--TJ. Guess he is backing up Weaver.

JMO, but folks are selling Payne short in this thread once again.

SESupergenius
05-24-2006, 08:41 AM
Kubiak is totally gutting this team and really isn't considering where the draft picks were taken, each man has to practice and perform to HIS standards, no matter what their previous position and stature was. TJ wasn't a great pick to begin with and may find it hard to compete with Robaire and Payne.

Exascor
05-24-2006, 08:56 AM
From today's Chronicle article on Babin. Notably absent?--TJ. Guess he is backing up Weaver.

JMO, but folks are selling Payne short in this thread once again.I was suprised to see no mention of TJ in that article. Just seems like last year's #1 pick would be given a shot unless he's done something that the staff doesn't like.

BigBull17
05-24-2006, 09:02 AM
I don't know about that either...It just depends on how highly Kubes think's of him.... I could easily see kubiak thinking...hmmm....this guy could be a dominant force inside for us....BUT at the same time i can c him thinking....This guy is unproven, and i have Vet's on the bench....i think i'll stick him @ 3 on the depth chart....just depends on how he is evaluted

{* The "He" in this post refer to Travis Johnson}

I think you misunderstood me, if Weaver cant get to the QB on passing downs than TJ will get a chance to come in and prove his worth. If Weaver is making a push and getting heat on the QB, than Kubiak isnt going to fix what isnt broken draft position be damned.:whip:

real
05-24-2006, 09:40 AM
I think you misunderstood me, if Weaver cant get to the QB on passing downs than TJ will get a chance to come in and prove his worth. If Weaver is making a push and getting heat on the QB, than Kubiak isnt going to fix what isnt broken draft position be damned.:whip:
agreed... I just hope that T.J gets a fair shot...and performs well

nunusguy
05-24-2006, 09:50 AM
I think you misunderstood me, if Weaver cant get to the QB on passing downs than TJ will get a chance to come in and prove his worth. If Weaver is making a push and getting heat on the QB, than Kubiak isnt going to fix what isnt broken draft position be damned.:whip:
Given that Weaver was origionally acquired to be our strong side DE in the
4-3, you'd have to think he is more explosive and quicker than Johnson whether on the edge or inside. But if he does end up being a DT to make
romm for Mario, at 280 he would have to be one of the smaller DTs in the NFL
I'd think ?

humbleone
05-24-2006, 09:54 AM
From today's Chronicle article on Babin. Notably absent?--TJ. Guess he is backing up Weaver.

JMO, but folks are selling Payne short in this thread once again.

That was my conclusion...he is behind Weaver currently. And I like a base 4-3 early down package of Williams-Payne-Smith-Weaver/Peek as a run stopper.

:ok:

BigBull17
05-24-2006, 10:05 AM
Given that Weaver was origionally acquired to be our strong side DE in the
4-3, you'd have to think he is more explosive and quicker than Johnson whether on the edge or inside. But if he does end up being a DT to make
romm for Mario, at 280 he would have to be one of the smaller DTs in the NFL
I'd think ?

Well he was brought in as a run stuffer. He also played as a 3-4 DE, which is just a gloryfied DT. He isnt the guy who gets you 10+ sacks he controls the LOS. And 280 isnt that small if you have the strength to go with it. Playing on the line, be it OL or DL, is all about attitude and if he has the right attitude he will do fine.:twocents: :soldier: :dance: :piano:

nunusguy
05-24-2006, 10:55 AM
Well he was brought in as a run stuffer. He also played as a 3-4 DE, which is just a gloryfied DT. He isnt the guy who gets you 10+ sacks he controls the LOS. And 280 isnt that small if you have the strength to go with it. Playing on the line, be it OL or DL, is all about attitude and if he has the right attitude he will do fine.:twocents: :soldier: :dance: :piano:
You're right of course about 3-4 downlineman beting 4-3 DTs and not DEs.
And that turns out to be a good thing, Weaver being that versatile and all
since our #1 is the prototype strongside 4-3 DE and that's where Mario should be. We can use Weaver on the inside, and he'd be a backup for Mario so the FA pickup is not a waste.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
05-24-2006, 11:24 AM
Payne has had one significant injury in the last 7 seasons and has played in 16 games out of 16 6 of the last 7 seasons. People are way too fast to slap injury tags on players.


They also talk about Payne willing to work out with weights while dragging an IV in his arm right after surgery.

This guy is a winner... and the first time I saw him interviewed after a loss he was PISSED. My money says this guy sees an opportunity to play with winners... and if his soul hasn't been destroyed with a 2 win season -TJ is going to be on the bench for a long time.:) And if that is not the case, the Texans will be a better team because TJ earned a slot and didn't get it handed to him.

Texian
05-24-2006, 12:58 PM
The depth chart as I envision it come August.

LE - Williams/Babin/Weaver

NT - Payne/Smith/Johnson

UT - Weaver/Johnson/Williams

RE - Peek/Babin/Williams

I love the depth, not many teams have this caliber of depth and rotation...edited to include a good point made by bckey.

bckey
05-24-2006, 01:03 PM
The depth chart as I envision it come August.

LE - Williams/Babin

NT - Payne/Smith/Johnson

UT - Weaver/Johnson/Williams

RE - Peek/Babin

I think Weaver will play end once in a while.

Brandon420tx
05-24-2006, 06:48 PM
Was Kalu cut, or do we still have him and Malone...?

TexanFan881
05-24-2006, 06:50 PM
Was Kalu cut, or do we still have him and Malone...?

We still have Kalu. If we still have Malone, I'd be suprised if he's still on the team when the season starts. TJ will backup at DT and by the time the season is about midway through and there are some injuries he will get a good amount of playing time.

TexansSeminole
05-24-2006, 07:59 PM
Plus, he went from Bobby Bowden and their amazing D Coordinator Mickey Andrews, to Capers and Vic Fangio....i wouldnt be suprised if a player going from Hall of Fame coach to a Hall of Shame coach wouldnt play or act to his potential. Expect change.

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 09:28 PM
]']I dont know if you can tag TJ as lazy. He was atleast "okay" last year.

what??

he barely saw the field...

stevo3883
05-24-2006, 09:30 PM
and the answer to the question: Travis Johnson's position this season
http://www.csuchico.edu/fms/directbilling/photos/bench01.jpg
ass-back

MorKnolle
05-26-2006, 11:51 AM
and the answer to the question: Travis Johnson's position this season
http://www.csuchico.edu/fms/directbilling/photos/bench01.jpg
ass-back

nice, I concur

Texans34Life
05-26-2006, 12:50 PM
Here's more insult to injury:

Texans | Johnson struggling in practice
Fri, 26 May 2006 07:27:06 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans DT Travis Johnson has been struggling in practice. The former first-round pick has seen time with the second team but also taken a number of repetitions with the third team. "Right now it's difficult, because I've still got a lot of mistakes I'm trying to weave through, but I think I'll be all right," said Johnson. "Right now, I'm just trying to readjust to doing all the things I learned how to do in college."

Brandon420tx
05-26-2006, 12:52 PM
Eh I really see that more as TJ realizing he'll have to work harder if he wants to make the team... not insult to injury

:tease: -2->:crutch:

humbleone
05-26-2006, 03:19 PM
As usual, I have enjoyed and learned more from the posts on this thread than the Chronicle article on TJ which followed.

Here is my follow-up question regarding TJ: Is there any way he could be involved in a trade before the season starts? Generally, 1st-2nd rounders stick with the teams that drafted them for at least 2 years almost no matter what right? Or is there some precedent for this sort of thing...new HC, new GM, new "team direction" resulting in a quick trade trigger pull?

Vinny
05-26-2006, 03:22 PM
As usual, I have enjoyed and learned more from the posts on this thread than the Chronicle article on TJ which followed.

Here is my follow-up question regarding TJ: Is there any way he could be involved in a trade before the season starts? Generally, 1st-2nd rounders stick with the teams that drafted them for at least 2 years almost no matter what right? Or is there some precedent for this sort of thing...new HC, new GM, new "team direction" resulting in a quick trade trigger pull? no...hes not going anywhere imo. Payne is old and Smith is overrated.

humbleone
05-26-2006, 03:27 PM
no...hes not going anywhere imo. Payne is old and Smith is overrated.

Fair enough. I guess then we (1) hope the kid wakes up and shows up and (2) The Winston pick at least works out for us. :poker:

humbleone
06-27-2006, 04:38 PM
I was just wondering if anyone out there knows anything new on how TJ is doing with his rehab/conditioning assignments. :crutch:

cuppacoffee
06-27-2006, 07:33 PM
Here's more insult to injury:

Texans | Johnson struggling in practice
Fri, 26 May 2006 07:27:06 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans DT Travis Johnson has been struggling in practice. The former first-round pick has seen time with the second team but also taken a number of repetitions with the third team. "Right now it's difficult, because I've still got a lot of mistakes I'm trying to weave through, but I think I'll be all right," said Johnson. "Right now, I'm just trying to readjust to doing all the things I learned how to do in college."

Sounds like he was coached to ("un-learn"?) all the things he learned in college that made him a first round pick.

Wonder who gets the credit for teaching? him last year? :deadhorse

I think TJ will be just fine as soon as Fangio and Co. are flushed from his system.

Have I said lately that I'm glad that last bunch of inept coaches are gone? :stooges:


:coffee:

threetoedpete
06-27-2006, 08:04 PM
I heard things about Mario, Babin/Peek, Smith, Payne, and Weaver. I haven't seen or heard anything about TJ. What is going on with him. I was thinking that he would do well in the 4-3 but I haven't heard anything about how he is doing.

:shoot:
Don't know how it is now, but back in the day...that was the kiss of death for a player. Player goes Casper... "poof " he's *gone*.No one is above the turk. JMHO.

ensign_lee
06-27-2006, 10:42 PM
He's going to be spending another year learning. I really can't see him cracking the starting lineup of DTs, with Weaver, Payne, and Smith in front of him. We can't keep all these guys forever though, so he'll get a bigger chance next year.

But to answer the original question, he would b the fourth DT on the depth chart, not an envious position.

edo783
06-28-2006, 09:52 AM
Just a personal thing and probably has no basis in fact, but TJ seems like a slow learner to me, and therefor he will take longer that most to come around. I think he will be in the rotation when the season starts, but will not get a starting gig this year.

wrestler4life
06-28-2006, 12:44 PM
Just a personal thing and probably has no basis in fact, but TJ seems like a slow learner to me, and therefor he will take longer that most to come around. I think he will be in the rotation when the season starts, but will not get a starting gig this year.
Then he was a waste of #1 pick

TexanFanInCC
06-28-2006, 03:52 PM
On the bench, again.

With the Texans trying to get Peak, Babin, playing time by moving Weaver to the inside, and Payne and Smith already starting ahead of TJ, could be another long unproductive year for our boy.

i just mentioned logjam at LB....now we have one at d-line. lemme break down who i think will start.

LDE- babin
DT- r. smith
DT - seth payne
RDE- mario

weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....

LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

does ND Kalu factor in?

real
06-28-2006, 03:55 PM
i just mentioned logjam at LB....now we have one at d-line. lemme break down who i think will start.

LDE- babin
DT- r. smith
DT - seth payne
RDE- mario

weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....

LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

does ND Kalu factor in?

Weaver will start, IMO...and you said weaver will be play run downs....(1) you make that statement then put him on your passing down formation(2) he used to play DE, and is probably the best pass rushing DT we have...

srstex
06-28-2006, 04:27 PM
My two cents Babin-Smith-Weaver-Kalu, start the season with the proven line. Payne for Smith if you like. If stopping the run is what Kubiak needs, then Peek will not start, last year he proved he was to small to put on the line, teams ran at him all day successfully.
This line should hold down the run, and Weaver/Kalu both have been good at sacking the QB.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2006, 04:44 PM
weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....

LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

Do you really think they'll move Mario inside? Has this been mentioned or quoted previously? Maybe I missed it.

jmerog
06-28-2006, 09:27 PM
My two cents Babin-Smith-Weaver-Kalu, start the season with the proven line. Payne for Smith if you like. If stopping the run is what Kubiak needs, then Peek will not start, last year he proved he was to small to put on the line, teams ran at him all day successfully.
This line should hold down the run, and Weaver/Kalu both have been good at sacking the QB.


Nonsense. there is no way mario doesn't start. And kalu is a backup. peek would be in before kalu.

TexanFan881
06-28-2006, 09:28 PM
Then he was a waste of #1 pick

That sounds about right :hunter:

BlueThunder
06-28-2006, 09:46 PM
I'm going to put Travis Johnson on my team.:trophy:

jmerog
06-28-2006, 09:51 PM
I'm going to put Travis Johnson on my team.:trophy:
i would put him on my team, too....

...He could be teammember # 7 and run the fryer.

jmerog
06-28-2006, 09:52 PM
just kidding...



....i would not trust him with hot grease.

Second Honeymoon
06-28-2006, 09:53 PM
It seems like they are going to work this defensive line into a rotation system. I think you are going to see a lot of fresh legs at not only the DE but they will rotate at LB as well. I think someone mentioned that Weaver could play DE in certain situtations in a role similar to what L.Lett used to do for the Cowboys under JJ. I like the depth at DL but I still cant get over the fact that our organization's football people are this down on TJ after only one year of NFL play. He must really be a bust. Well poetry aside, I hope to see a good rotation at DE and put some pressure on the QB, because our secondary could really struggle this year.

doug

jmerog
06-28-2006, 09:55 PM
blue thunder- just having a little offseason fun. :tease: i hope TJ can get it together this year but i dont see him starting.

BlueThunder
06-28-2006, 10:03 PM
You people just talking your stupid blabber..The real question is where is Anthony Weaver going to play..Travis Johnson is going to take the number 3 spot in the 3 Tackle rotation..Anthony Weaver is the player we should be looking at because he at the roof of his ceiling..Can he play outside at DE?Can he hold a starting spot on the inside?Is he really that good against the run..You want to look at numbers go look at at LeRoi Glovers numbers when he had a clog next to him....What was it 51 tackles 20 sacks?Don't start getting in to big a hurry on these players....In 3 year this team could be 1/4 th FSU Alumni..:trophy:

You don't start on on Florida State unless you have real talent and thats what Johnson has..:shoot:

MorKnolle
06-28-2006, 10:18 PM
Wow, there is some serious craziness in this thread. TJ will probably end up starting the season on 3rd string as he is currently behind Alfred Malone. Robaire Smith and Seth Payne play the same position, Weaver and Johnson will play the same position, and TJ is not about to overtake Weaver.

There is no way in hell that Mario does not start and play every single down that he has the energy to play, he is our best pass rusher and probably our best DLineman against the run already, and we just used the #1 overall pick on him and gave him $54 million. There is absolutely no way he won't start for us. He might see some time at DT on passing situations with Peek and Babin at DEs, but I don't expect to see that very much. Peek and Babin will have a nice battle during training camp to decide who will be our starting WDE.

jmerog
06-28-2006, 10:21 PM
first of all, i was just joking around. second of all- i was just joking around ABOUT A PLAYER and didn't attack you personally. If i werent such a gentleman i would tell you that your post made you look classless and stupid. But since i am a gentleman, I'll just say that your post, ' leaves room for improvement'.

To the others- I am not against johnson. we paid a lot for him and i hope he works out. He will not start- nuff said.

Texansbacker
06-28-2006, 10:54 PM
Robaire Smith, Seth Payne, Travis Johnson, Anthony Weaver, and Alfred Malone all in a rotation at defensive tackle until someone gets hurt, stands out or a continual rotation could be maintained. My bet is that the cream will rise to the top with clear starters and relievers but a rotation none-the-less.

Mario Williams is the only clear starter at this point. I think you can make a good case for all of the others but their play in preseason will ulitimately determine the outcome.

Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Travis Johnson/Seth Payne
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Anthony Weaver/Jason Babin

Jason Babin/ND Kalu
Mario Williams/Seth Payne
Anthony Weaver/Travis Johnson
Antwan Peek/Alfred Malone

Mario Williams/ND Kalu
Seth Payne/Travis Johnson
Robaire Smith/Alfred Malone
Antwan Peek/Jason Babin

Robaire should be better this year returning to a 4-3 as should TJ. Weaver was solid on a good Raven D and hopefully the change to a leadership role on a new team will be inspirational to him. Seth Payne will no doubt be inspirational in his preparation and his play, provided he stays healthy, the MAIN hazard for him. The option to fold in Mario Williams to the inside makes this a vastly improved team from the ones of the past.

Then you look at the defensive ends and we have Mario Williams, Jason Babin, Antwan Peek, ND Kalu, Alfred Malone, and possibly Anthony Weaver. Question marks no doubt but it also has POTENTIAL written all over it.

Proof is in the pudding. Looks tasty!

BlueThunder
06-28-2006, 11:13 PM
I just hope Rick Smith can work this out and maybe salvage this player or fix this.I really think we need to make the right decision here,,this guy was a top 10 pick..I think Travis just got started out on the wrong foot and if its worth it set a bar for him,,..I would start it off with him losing 18 pounds..Our Owner ain't going to sit here the next five years paying this guy top 10 money to set on the bench and get fat..This guy has to prove he wants to own that top 10 money..He's atleast 10 to 15 pound from proving he wants to play in this league..Why don't you people go look at some 4th or 5 rounder to set on the bench..You people don't know whats going on in the front office!Its the coaxges job to make football players out of these guys..

Maddict5
06-28-2006, 11:43 PM
Thats really sad to think our first round pick is a bust and won't find the field.I think we may need to look at this personal department and the strenths and condictioning of this team.I think we may have a problem somewhere in management or maybe were just not all on the same page:mario:

Travis is the starter,he's the first round pick,,,I don't give a fuk about Weaver...If were paying Travis top money his azz needs to be playing...Weaver ain't even a top 50 DT in this league and he's a 6 year vet...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: il be nice: you obviously dont know what you are talking about..tj will not start, it doesnt matter if hes a 1st round pick or UFA..weaver is performing better and therefore deserves the starting spot.

TexanFan881
06-28-2006, 11:47 PM
What a waste of our future.......If Travis ain't playing we need to trade him now for anything and go get a REAL DT!

1.) It's way too early to give up on him
2.) We already have a solid DL, with or without him
3.) No team in the league will give us much for him, so it's not worth it

bayoudreamn
06-28-2006, 11:50 PM
i just mentioned logjam at LB....now we have one at d-line. lemme break down who i think will start.

LDE- babin
DT- r. smith
DT - seth payne
RDE- mario

weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....

LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

does ND Kalu factor in?

I couldn't help but laugh when I was reading this post. You list everyone in the post by last name......always.....except "Mario".....

Anyway....I thought it was funny....

bayoudreamn
06-28-2006, 11:52 PM
weaver will play run downs. on pass downs, mario moves inside and peek takes RDE, looking like this....

LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

Do you really think they'll move Mario inside? Has this been mentioned or quoted previously? Maybe I missed it.

yes....it has......the coaches said it.....it was in some media coverage a while back

Runner
06-29-2006, 12:05 AM
yes....it has......the coaches said it.....it was in some media coverage a while back

If they do run this line up, I'd think it was more of change up to make the defense think. I don't think it would be run with great frequency.......unless it turns out to be very effective.

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 12:12 AM
TJ can be as good as he decides to be. From everything I've heard so far, he's a backup. This staff has no loyalty to any of Capers' players. They don't care when you were picked or what potential the last guy saw in you. If you don't perform, they don't have to play you because you aren't their mistake. Weaver is Kubiak's guy. TJ is Capers'. This team will benefit quite a bit if TJ decides to live up to his potential. We'll see if it happens.

Runner
06-29-2006, 12:16 AM
They don't care when you were picked or what potential the last guy saw in you. If you don't perform, they don't have to play you ...

No doubt. It will be nice to see players on the field because of performance instead of a criteria seemingly based on an arcane formula computed mainly from salary and years in the league figures.

bayoudreamn
06-29-2006, 12:20 AM
If they do run this line up, I'd think it was more of change up to make the defense think. I don't think it woul dbe run with great frequency.......unless it turns out to be very effective.

I agree with that.

BlueThunder
06-29-2006, 02:48 AM
A player don't develope on the bench,,.I just can't see Travis a top 10 pick bearied behind 3 DTs.The guy should get atleast 40 percent of the snaps..He has to develope into a full time starter.I think Robaire Smith or Seth Payne is the odd man out...If the coaches feel they had to go outside the house to get a starter then one of these 2 vets need to go..I just can't see a rotation tackle coming in to knock the top 10 pick out of the backup rotation spot..

A tough call to start things off,,,,,,,,,,,,,:Tumblewee

We can carry 4 and mostlikely will this year til we find out who we don't need..I just can't see Travis not in the picture if he's going to grow.

We could possibly rotate Robaire Payne and Weaver per game to the 48 but I wouldn't think it good business if Travis stays and isn't on the 48 being a top 10 pick..bottom line

Theres nothing wrong with rotating the vets ,,,they would get like 12 games each,,it would build there value and we would get a chance to evaluate them in the 43 for a year before we make final clean up.

infantrycak
06-29-2006, 08:58 AM
I just hope Rick Smith can work this out and maybe salvage this player or fix this.I really think we need to make the right decision here,,this guy was a top 10 pick..I think Travis just got started out on the wrong foot and if its worth it set a bar for him,,..I would start it off with him losing 18 pounds..Our Owner ain't going to sit here the next five years paying this guy top 10 money to set on the bench and get fat..This guy has to prove he wants to own that top 10 money..He's atleast 10 to 15 pound from proving he wants to play in this league..Why don't you people go look at some 4th or 5 rounder to set on the bench..You people don't know whats going on in the front office!Its the coaxges job to make football players out of these guys..

First off TJ was picked 16th overall.
Not sure why a DT needs to weigh 285 lbs--most would say that is too light.
Last, if you are talking about keeping money on the field Weaver is the more expensive player and by that logic should start--cap hits--Weaver $3.4 mil, TJ $1.5 mil.

A player don't develope on the bench,,.I just can't see Travis a top 10 pick bearied behind 3 DTs.The guy should get atleast 40 percent of the snaps..He has to develope into a full time starter.I think Robaire Smith or Seth Payne is the odd man out...If the coaches feel they had to go outside the house to get a starter then one of these 2 vets need to go..I just can't see a rotation tackle coming in to knock the top 10 pick out of the backup rotation spot.

So you would have a coach who does not believe TJ is currently one of the best 2 or even 3 DT's on the team put him in the game anyway simply to justify an old administration's 16th overall pick?

By the way Smith and Payne are also more expensive than TJ--Smith $4.8 mil, Payne $4.2 mil. Now after this season, if TJ shows something in the rotation and Smith does not up his performance, relative value could see Smith in trouble.

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 09:18 AM
A player don't develope on the bench,

But he still has to earn his reps by working hard in practice and proving he deserves his playing time. Just being a first round pick of the prior admistration doesn't earn you snaps.

bigbrewster2000
06-29-2006, 09:26 AM
A player don't develope on the bench,,.I just can't see Travis a top 10 pick bearied behind 3 DTs.The guy should get atleast 40 percent of the snaps..He has to develope into a full time starter.I think Robaire Smith or Seth Payne is the odd man out...If the coaches feel they had to go outside the house to get a starter then one of these 2 vets need to go..I just can't see a rotation tackle coming in to knock the top 10 pick out of the backup rotation spot..

A tough call to start things off,,,,,,,,,,,,,:Tumblewee

We can carry 4 and mostlikely will this year til we find out who we don't need..I just can't see Travis not in the picture if he's going to grow.

We could possibly rotate Robaire Payne and Weaver per game to the 48 but I wouldn't think it good business if Travis stays and isn't on the 48 being a top 10 pick..bottom line

Theres nothing wrong with rotating the vets ,,,they would get like 12 games each,,it would build there value and we would get a chance to evaluate them in the 43 for a year before we make final clean up.
So your logic is that just because the Johnsonbury Doughboy was a 1st round pick, he can sit on his butt and get fat and do nothing at all to improve himself, and get completely outperformed by 4 other guys, that he should still start? Hmmm.... I am still searching for the logic in your logic.

HOU-TEX
06-29-2006, 09:52 AM
LDE - babin
DT weaver
DT- mario
RDE- peek

I guess this line would be for a pass rush? It does look pretty sweet! Very fast! Although I think Robaire would be a better fit than Weaver IMO.:twocents:

TheOgre
06-29-2006, 10:06 AM
Although I think Robaire would be a better fit than Weaver IMO.:twocents:

Disagree. Weaver is quicker than Smith.

HOU-TEX
06-29-2006, 10:19 AM
Disagree. Weaver is quicker than Smith.
I don't really know much on Weaver except from what I've read. I can't really elaborate more due to the fact that I can't remember where I read it, but I remember it saying he was better fit for a run D. Either way, I'm pretty pumped on seeing the changes in our D.

Brandon420tx
06-29-2006, 10:30 AM
I love how people get fixated on the starting line and the backup line. It makes me chuckle softly :).

Yes, TJ might still needs to develope, but he will most likely still get playing time (Sorry you haters out there) He might not start, but he will play.

During the off-season we've heard from the coaches (Rick Smith and Kubiak... and the D-Line Coach ... I think those 3) that we have a lot of depth at the line and they are focusing on a good rotation for the season. We could have a different starting D-Line every week this season because

Who'da-thunkit?

Gameplan - We will look at what the others team philosophy is, their Strengths, their weaknesses, and tendancies.

And the rotation will depend on all of the above mentioned, as well as:
A) Situation
B) Which of our D-Linemans talents best fits the situation
C) Which of those D-Lineman are a little tired

I don't think it will be too easy to guess what are line will look like untill at least week 2 or 3...

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 11:12 AM
I agree Brandon. I don't think TJ will start (until he proves he deserves to) but it really doesn't matter. We will rotate our D-Linemen so much that the top backups will get as many reps as the starters. I really hope this guy turns out to be what we hoped, but I'm not optimistic. I guess I'll just have to take the same "wait and see" attitude I am taking with another player who shall remain nameless.

Runner
06-29-2006, 11:40 AM
I agree Brandon. I don't think TJ will start (until he proves he deserves to) but it really doesn't matter. We will rotate our D-Linemen so much that the top backups will get as many reps as the starters. I really hope this guy turns out to be what we hoped, but I'm not optimistic. I guess I'll just have to take the same "wait and see" attitude I am taking with another player who shall remain nameless.

I still think it still depends on performance. They might be satisfied with a 3 deep rotation if the drop-off to the 4th tackle is greater than the return of keeping people fresh. Injuries are always a wild card though. That is wehere playing time really gets jumbled up.

AFD1717
06-29-2006, 11:54 AM
Injuries are always a wild card though. That is where playing time really gets jumbled up.


You nailed it. I think TJ will end up getting more snaps once Seth "Pain" ends up getting an injury. It also depends on how well Babin and Peek do as DEs. If they do well, I expect Weaver will play mostly DT and I think you'll see Mario slide down some too. If Peek and Babin flop, Weaver and Mario will be on the ends almost exclusively and they will be forced to rotate TJ in to keep our other DTs fresh. TJ will play more as the season progresses because he will (hopefully) get better and he probably won't break down as much since his is younger than our other DTs.

Runner
06-29-2006, 12:18 PM
If Peek and Babin flop, Weaver and Mario will be on the ends almost exclusively and they will be forced to rotate TJ in to keep our other DTs fresh.

And this is definitely NOT the way we want someone to gain playing time. It signifies a breakdown somewhere along the line - evaluation of Peek/Babin, scheme, training, something. However if this theoretical proposition is identified in camp, then the system works.

However, I don't think both Peek and Babin will come up empty. One of them will perform well, right?

infantrycak
06-29-2006, 12:25 PM
You nailed it. I think TJ will end up getting more snaps once Seth "Pain" ends up getting an injury.

Geez--some of these things are like tribbles--you can't get rid of the pesky things. Payne has missed games in 1 of the last 7 years (a single injury well past its recovery time at this point--and due to a freakishly bad field surface which was replaced mid-season afterwards because it was so bad) due to injury and none the last two years. By the way, TJ is the one who didn't make it thru mini-camp healthy.

MorKnolle
06-29-2006, 02:44 PM
I agree Brandon. I don't think TJ will start (until he proves he deserves to) but it really doesn't matter. We will rotate our D-Linemen so much that the top backups will get as many reps as the starters. I really hope this guy turns out to be what we hoped, but I'm not optimistic. I guess I'll just have to take the same "wait and see" attitude I am taking with another player who shall remain nameless.

I want to point out a couplt things again with all this "rotating all the DTs" talk:
I doubt the top backups will get as many reps as the starters, but we will see. I don't see this defense running the same set enough that they will really need to "rotate" the players on and off the field, I think they will have enough different kinds of looks that will naturally bring in slightly different sets of personnel that the starters will get enough rest and we won't be running the same formation over and over and having to spell the whole 1st group with the whole 2nd string at any point. That said, I don't really see TJ being part of the #1 group in any formation that they're likely to run unless he significantly improves his play.

In addition, the DTs in our base set have different roles, Robaire Smith and Seth Payne are fit for one of the roles and thus will sub for each other as needed, and Anthony Weaver and TJ/Alfred Malone play the other role, so they will sub for each other as needed, so until TJ actually beats out Malone and then earns the backup role behind Weaver he probably won't see the field at all, and even then he'll only come in if Weaver needs a rest. TJ does not play the same position on this DLine that Payne and Robaire do, so he won't fill in for them unless both get hurt. On passing situations (nickel and dime formations on obvious passing downs), Weaver and maybe TJ or else Robaire could see the field at DT, although it has been mentioned that they will probably try Mario at DT some as well in those circumstances to get more speed on the field, which would bump TJ out of that lineup.

threetoedpete
07-01-2006, 02:56 AM
But he still has to earn his reps by working hard in practice and proving he deserves his playing time. Just being a first round pick of the prior admistration doesn't earn you snaps.
Agreed:
That's why I posted what I posted earlier. No desrespect to others on the board, and cap hit aside, He better be a monster with his PT in the preseason
games. If I was a coach and I had a legend in his own mind player and I wanted to send a cear and decisive messegeand I was loooooaaaaaded at the position..... no one is above the turk, no one.

Battle Red Flash
07-03-2006, 03:39 PM
I see him backing up both tackles. (Payne, Robaire)
I really hope we did not blow a 1st round pick.

Ibar_Harry
07-03-2006, 03:45 PM
I see him backing up both tackles. (Payne, Robaire)
I really hope we did not blow a 1st round pick.

I think TJ needs to spend a little time with Mario learning about life and how to play the game. TJ just needs to get his head screwed on straight and get over the xxxxxing he got from last year's coaching staff. The coaching we had was so, so, inept and they hurt a lot players on this team. Its amazing that most are as resiliant as they are. Almost everyone is having to unlearn what they were taught. Some will take a whole lot longer than others.