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stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:13 PM
Ok so first off I am not a supporter of the Mario pick @ #1, but am a supporter of the player. he is a fantastic talent, definitely worthy of a top pick in almost every draft, just not this one...



Next is the abundance of money/resources in the d-line. loads of money tied into robaire, walker, payne, weaver, williams. with babin and johnson sitting in the background as wasted 1st round picks. if they make williams the strong side DE they will be making an enourmous error, as his passrushing is sorely needed on the weakside. moving weaver to DT would be another blunder, as his contract is for a DE, not a DT.

our secondary has only 1 player that could start on 50% of the teams in the league (thats my benchmark for a serviceable player)
We have two SS's that aren't that good at SS, and certainly lack the ability to cover at FS. Pbuc will not be better with a better line. let me repeat that, PBUC WILL NOT PLAY BETTER WITH A BETTER DEFENSIVE LINE the kid just doesnt have what it takes to play in the NFL mentally.

now to address the oline, uh oh.
we're in for another scary year there. yes, it will be slightly improved, but it is WELL below anything that can be deemed acceptable. We have two big bodies at the tackles spots for the next two years as our rookies try to develope. (rookie tackles NEVER play well, ESPECIALLY 3rd ROUND ROOKIES)
we have a collection of three underachieving disappointments, one "was-good, might still be" player, and one "pretty good, not bad" player being shuffled around non-stop. disaster waiting to happen, and i know people are going to act like they are surprised when it happens.

the linebackers are woefully incomplete. Greenwood is meh. Wong is a gimp. Orr is meh. Cowart is old. Ryans is nice, but still a rookie. oh if we had only drafted derrick johnson. we wouldnt have a surplus of overpaid dt's, and we would have at least 1 proven linebacker.

Carr- dude HAS to get it together this year. if he doesn't progress, this franchise will be in the hole for the next 5 years.

DD- will be replaced by morency at somepoint in the season. homerun threats always look best.

my draft review

we hit on:
Daniels in the 4th
Winston in the 3rd

neutral on:
williams 1st- better options out there, not as big a need as made out to be.
ryans- we needed secondary baaaaaaad
spencer- might be too big to be a good ZB player

missed on-
Jon Scott in the 5th
Justice in the 2nd

my record-prediction is...... 5-11 or 6-10. if we catch a few breaks from parody, we can be 7-9.

there is no way we break .500 with a very poor offensive line, an amazingly weak secondary, a hobbled group of linebackers, and half our salary tied into the defensive line.

Wolf
05-17-2006, 07:20 PM
why would we draft scott when we drafted winston and spencer..?


what makes you so sure the secondary/linebackers won't be improved or "seem to be improved" with an improved passrush... To me the key to the offense is the OL and on defense the D-line sets the tone makes the Qb hurry or whatnot.

if I am not mistaken Walker has been cut on the d-line

Payne probably has one more year left on his contract if I am not mistaken.

so that leave Weaver,johnson,smith,Williams at D-line..

not sure where Babin/Peek will end up ..those might be the "tweeners" that come in on spot duty...someone else can help me on that.


I'd say the biggest thing on the OL is coaching.. Pendry shouldn't even be mentioned with our OL coaches ...big improvement IMO on that..

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 07:26 PM
1. Strongside is the better side for Williams. Id rather have a better strongside DE than a weakside DE, and im pretty sure he can play either well. Also Johnson isnt a miss, he barely played last season...He might be more productive than Williams this year, you watch. And again...Peek and Babin coming in at weak DE on situations with Williams at strong side mmmmm...wrong again my friend. Dline is our best group now.

2. Linebacker is one of our stronger positions, what the hell are you talking about?

3. We have a much better Offensive Line and it will be middle of the road of the NFL this season.

4. You are right about our secondary, good job on being right about one thing.

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:34 PM
1. Strongside is the better side for Williams. Id rather have a better strongside DE than a weakside DE, and im pretty sure he can play either well. Also Johnson isnt a miss, he barely played last season...He might be more productive than Williams this year, you watch. And again...Peek and Babin coming in at weak DE on situations with Williams at strong side mmmmm...wrong again my friend. Dline is our best group now. I never said the dline was bad, so try and actually read next time. its called money, and we have too much of it tied into the dline. and you expect a 2nd year DT that never played last year to have better stats than a #1 overall pick DE. right....

2. Linebacker is one of our stronger positions, what the hell are you talking about? wow being a strong position on a 2-14 team isn't an accomplishment. they are very weak, no real legit starters right now, a bunch of 2nd/3rd tier players

3. We have a much better Offensive Line and it will be middle of the road of the NFL this season. how? because you say so?

4. You are right about our secondary, good job on being right about one thing.
nice

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:38 PM
why would we draft scott when we drafted winston and spencer..?


what makes you so sure the secondary/linebackers won't be improved or "seem to be improved" with an improved passrush... To me the key to the offense is the OL and on defense the D-line sets the tone makes the Qb hurry or whatnot. well we were 14th last year in sacks, and out secondary played like middle schoolers. unless you expect us to move into the top 5 for sacks, there won't be this amazing difference because we drafted 1 guy.

if I am not mistaken Walker has been cut on the d-line yes but he is still draining our cap

Payne probably has one more year left on his contract if I am not mistaken. i think he got an extension last year

so that leave Weaver,johnson,smith,Williams at D-line..

not sure where Babin/Peek will end up ..those might be the "tweeners" that come in on spot duty...someone else can help me on that. thats two first day picks, if they were to become "spot duty" it would be a total failure


I'd say the biggest thing on the OL is coaching.. Pendry shouldn't even be mentioned with our OL coaches ...big improvement IMO on that..id say its a lack of quality players
reply

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 07:39 PM
1. The fact that we've added two potential starters to the LB position makes it much different than last year...dont you think?

2. Why is the Oline going to be horrible this season with a new coach, oh by the way ex-head coach, working with them and many new faces?...Why? Because you say so? :hunter:

:whip:

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:41 PM
1. The fact that we've added two potential starters to the LB position makes it much different than last year...dont you think? we added ryan to start, and cowart for depth

2. Why is the Oline going to be horrible this season with a new coach, oh by the way ex-head coach, working with them and many new faces?...Why? Because you say so? :hunter: read the first post, because it is the same group of rejects that has been the worst line in NFL history for the past 4 years. coaching won't turn crap into gold.

:whip:
again

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 07:43 PM
You are neglecting to realize that we have added 3 players and coaching does change things...Have you ever played football...or maybe talked to a coach before...or were you in band?

Mr. White
05-17-2006, 07:45 PM
read the first post, because it is the same group of rejects that has been the worst line in NFL history for the past 4 years. coaching won't turn crap into gold.


You think it's possible that the new coaches think that the OL personnel wasn't too bad and their blocking scheme really sucked?

I've yet to hear of Joe Pendry getting a new job yet.

Wolf
05-17-2006, 07:46 PM
If coaching doesn't make a difference.. hmm we should have kept Capers and Pendry

Coaching and scheme didn't help me

signed
Steve Foley

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:47 PM
You are neglecting to realize that we have added 3 players and coaching does change things...Have you ever played football...or maybe talked to a coach before...or were you in band?

these arent high school kids. coaching doesnt make you remember how to pass block. these are professional athletes, they are treated differently than your JV coach treats you

we added two rookies who should not be expected to perform at a starting level for two seasons, and a starting center. so we added 1 player and depth for the next year or two.

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 07:48 PM
haha at the Wedding Crashers signature.

And when i get back home im going to go to see the doctor about what you did to my back...and not just any doctor...a doctor Epsteen who specializes....

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:49 PM
You think it's possible that the new coaches think that the OL personnel wasn't too bad and their blocking scheme really sucked?

I've yet to hear of Joe Pendry getting a new job yet.

oh its possible, but a scheme doesnt make players get pushed back every snap.

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 07:50 PM
we added two rookies who should not be expected to perform at a starting level for two seasons, and a starting center. so we added 1 player and depth for the next year or two.

Salaam?....check out our roster maybe dude

stevo3883
05-17-2006, 07:51 PM
Salaam?....check out our roster maybe dude

salaam shouldnt be expected to play any significant amount of time.

he is veteran depth, nothing more.

Wolf
05-17-2006, 07:58 PM
well Babin and Peek are the price we may have to pay for changing our scheme from a 3-4 to 4-3..

just imagine what money would be tied up with a bush/dd thing or even a VY/Carr thing ..then we'd be talking about some cash at a position that some high dollar player would be on the bench.

What would you have the Texans do?

I can't believe you think coaches don't make players... yes talent does take over but I can think of some talented teams on paper that didn't do squat (paging the redskins a few years ago) ...paging the Yankees in baseball with their 200 million dollar payroll) ... please don't underestimate coaching.

Scooter
05-17-2006, 07:59 PM
goes to show that you cant please everyone. we cut walker on the d-line to free up a little money now & a lot later, would you prefer we kept him? we got substancial talent everywhere on the team except db's. what other teams can say that?

we addressed our offensive line by bringing in mike freakin sherman to coach, a probowl center, and drafting TWO first day linemen. i'm leading the charge against how bad our offensive line was, and if i cant complain, i'm not sure how anyone else can. by the way .... khalif barnes (jags) & logan mankins (pats) are just 2 rookies from last year that played exceptionally well (barnes LT, mankins LG).

our d-line is now a strength and yes it's costing us a pretty penny .... i think the 12-4 jaguars dont mind being known for their front four though. i think p-burnt is a bust, but even if he's simply mediocre, a strong line can make the secondary's job A LOT easier. i dont think polamalu & john lynch are exactly known for their coverage skills, but it doesnt seem to matter when the qb has no time to throw ... or are you just being hypocritical by not noticing that from our own offensive line's past.

you're being critical of capers' problems which is entirely fair, but you seem to be blaming the current texans for their errors. but, i'd rather just ask ... what would you have done differently this offseason? i'm willing to bet that you wont have many in agreement.

CMoak1982
05-17-2006, 08:08 PM
First of all, new to the message board so hello. Second the Dline is by far one of our stronger groups as of right now, we do have some money tied up but Walkers is gone I think we 2.5 mil back on that, and if Weaver plays DT I'd have to say his contract is pretty high as well. I was never very high on Babin, and it's a shame we're gonna have two 1st rnd backups but if nothing else it's quality depth. I'd like to see Mario,Smith, Payne, Weaver on 1st and 2nd downs, and Peek, Mario, Weaver, andBabin on passing downs. Our lb core to me seems like we got alot of average linebackers, definitely lacks some playmaking ability, Greenwood played strongside backer in Miami's d when Seau was out and had a good year, so maybe he's worth the money we've got tied in to him and I think Ryans will turn into our best lb. Secondary Dunta is the only playmaker we have, not a fan of PBuch I don't like soft players. I personally like our young tandem at safety, athletic and not afraid to hit and with some coaching could possibly be ok. Stone is quality backup, but not much depth there. All in all I do think there will be an improvement on both sides of the ball and 7-9 is a possibility.

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 08:15 PM
First of all, new to the message board so hello. Second the Dline is by far one of our stronger groups as of right now, we do have some money tied up but Walkers is gone I think we 2.5 mil back on that, and if Weaver plays DT I'd have to say his contract is pretty high as well. I was never very high on Babin, and it's a shame we're gonna have two 1st rnd backups but if nothing else it's quality depth. I'd like to see Mario,Smith, Payne, Weaver on 1st and 2nd downs, and Peek, Mario, Weaver, andBabin on passing downs. Our lb core to me seems like we got alot of average linebackers, definitely lacks some playmaking ability, Greenwood played strongside backer in Miami's d when Seau was out and had a good year, so maybe he's worth the money we've got tied in to him and I think Ryans will turn into our best lb. Secondary Dunta is the only playmaker we have, not a fan of PBuch I don't like soft players. I personally like our young tandem at safety, athletic and not afraid to hit and with some coaching could possibly be ok. Stone is quality backup, but not much depth there. All in all I do think there will be an improvement on both sides of the ball and 7-9 is a possibility.

Welcome...I also like our young safetys for the future maybe, but not now....C.C. Brown seems to have alot of potential but he needs to learn and fast if he is going to start at FS, one of the most important positions on defense....you cannot get beat often at that position and expect to win. Also watch for Travis Johnson to play very well next year...i saw him play in college and i promise he has alot of heart and ability.

dat_boy_yec
05-17-2006, 08:36 PM
On the D-line that is something that irks me. You get Weaver and pay him DE money and then want to shuffle him to DT. I mean no disrespect, but that's a waste of money and talent. Weaver has been an end his entire pro career. Moving him in also means less playing time for TJ, more wasted money. Peek and Babin WTF. No disrespect but with Weaver and Williams their best shot would be at situational pass rushers. Nothing against Williams or Weaver their not the ones making the money decisions, but for all the money tied up on our line they better be ranked in the top 5 next yr. to even justify what's going on. If there's a trade it has to be a d-lineman included. We'll still eat up a cap hit, but damn that's just too much money sitting on the bench. You got 3-4 tackles making millions and 3-4 DE's making millions depending how you classify Weaver. The way I see it, it should be Weaver, Smith, TJ, Williams for the majority of plays with Babin or Peek whoever is better as situational. Payne, and Peek or Babin are expendable. Seeing as how they just re-signed Peek I would think Babin is closer to the door. They still have till June 1st to make cuts, but as of right now I don't see the financial sense in the personnel.

Mr. White
05-17-2006, 08:57 PM
oh its possible, but a scheme doesnt make players get pushed back every snap.

I beg to differ. We're talking about 2 different styles of pass blocking with a huge improvement in coaching. The difference is that Pendry wouldn't coach cut blocks and these guys have been for years.

I think it stands to reason that this change in itself will improve the OL.

MorKnolle
05-17-2006, 09:06 PM
On the D-line that is something that irks me. You get Weaver and pay him DE money and then want to shuffle him to DT. I mean no disrespect, but that's a waste of money and talent. Weaver has been an end his entire pro career. Moving him in also means less playing time for TJ, more wasted money. Peek and Babin WTF. No disrespect but with Weaver and Williams their best shot would be at situational pass rushers. Nothing against Williams or Weaver their not the ones making the money decisions, but for all the money tied up on our line they better be ranked in the top 5 next yr. to even justify what's going on. If there's a trade it has to be a d-lineman included. We'll still eat up a cap hit, but damn that's just too much money sitting on the bench. You got 3-4 tackles making millions and 3-4 DE's making millions depending how you classify Weaver. The way I see it, it should be Weaver, Smith, TJ, Williams for the majority of plays with Babin or Peek whoever is better as situational. Payne, and Peek or Babin are expendable. Seeing as how they just re-signed Peek I would think Babin is closer to the door. They still have till June 1st to make cuts, but as of right now I don't see the financial sense in the personnel.

I am quite happy with the DLine. For one thing, Weaver has played DE in a 3-4 system and has played some 4-3 DT before, he has not played much if any 4-3 DE. So far it sounds like they have primarily been using Mario as the strongside DE, Peek at weakside DE, then Weaver and Payne/Robaire as the DTs, and it sounds like our DLine has looked quite nice in the first two days of practice. They have said they plan to play Weaver at DE some as well, the frequency of which depends on how much of the game Peek can play effectively at DE, so when they bump Weaver outside they will have him at strongside, move Mario to weakside, then have Payne and Robaire (maybe TJ) at DT, which would provide a bigger line that would be more solid against the run but not as effective against the pass. The new staff doesn't care what previous draft picks have been invested in who, and to some extent how much money is wrapped up in those players, their only interest is in fielding the best set of players. They have nothing vested in these past acquisitions and aren't going to play people like TJ, Babin, etc. just because they are former 1st round picks, they are going to have to earn their playing time, and as of now neither are slated to be starters and I don't see that happening this year. I think both will remain with the team since they are both pretty solid players, but I don't expect a lot of playing time out of either of them.

dat_boy_yec
05-17-2006, 09:52 PM
I am quite happy with the DLine. For one thing, Weaver has played DE in a 3-4 system and has played some 4-3 DT before, he has not played much if any 4-3 DE. So far it sounds like they have primarily been using Mario as the strongside DE, Peek at weakside DE, then Weaver and Payne/Robaire as the DTs, and it sounds like our DLine has looked quite nice in the first two days of practice. They have said they plan to play Weaver at DE some as well, the frequency of which depends on how much of the game Peek can play effectively at DE, so when they bump Weaver outside they will have him at strongside, move Mario to weakside, then have Payne and Robaire (maybe TJ) at DT, which would provide a bigger line that would be more solid against the run but not as effective against the pass. The new staff doesn't care what previous draft picks have been invested in who, and to some extent how much money is wrapped up in those players, their only interest is in fielding the best set of players. They have nothing vested in these past acquisitions and aren't going to play people like TJ, Babin, etc. just because they are former 1st round picks, they are going to have to earn their playing time, and as of now neither are slated to be starters and I don't see that happening this year. I think both will remain with the team since they are both pretty solid players, but I don't expect a lot of playing time out of either of them.

I have no problem with the talent. I just don't like how much money is sitting on the bench or not even on the team. Because of the line. I don't blame Kubiak or the players, but tell me. We're paying for Walkers cap hit, Weaver, Williams, Payne, Smith, Peek, Babin, and T.J. All of those guys are getting starting type money. My contention is that if they aren't going to start they shouldn't get starting type money. If they can start elsewhere then a trade isn't out of the question. However as of right now I think there is too much money on the line. lol D-line that is. I'm not saying that it can't be fixed. Re-structured contracts, trades, or what have you can happen. I'm just putting my opinion on how the team is right now.

Texans_Chick
05-17-2006, 10:20 PM
our secondary has only 1 player that could start on 50% of the teams in the league (thats my benchmark for a serviceable player)
We have two SS's that aren't that good at SS, and certainly lack the ability to cover at FS. Pbuc will not be better with a better line. let me repeat that, PBUC WILL NOT PLAY BETTER WITH A BETTER DEFENSIVE LINE the kid just doesnt have what it takes to play in the NFL mentally.

I've posted this before on this subject (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=349953#post349953) but I do think it's worth repeating.

[QUOTE]The Top Reasons Why PBuc will Be Better This Year:

1. Contract Year

2. Better defensive scheme for our personnel. Heck, a better offense will keep the defense off the field and more rested.

3. Better Defensive Line and pass rush

4. Contract Year

5. PBuc knows what people think about his matador thing--he brought it up to Gary Kubiak. As much grief that people heap on him, you would have to think that this is something that he would be working on just from a personal pride standpoint.

6. PBuc seemed to be playing better last year right before he got hurt. Coaches said he was just playing more instead of over thinking.

7. Contract Year

8. DB coach is the same. I am guessing he may have been one of the people recommending the pick up last year and still sees something in him. You would think that PBuc isn't a total scrub and malcontent and uncoachable if he is being kept around. (or maybe it is that he is cheap).

9. Part of the ugliness about PBuc is the way the trade happened. That wasn't any fault of his. If you divorce your feelings for him from what we had to give up to get him, and just judge him as a player, maybe he will be alright. He played poorly at the beginning of the season (like most of the team against good competition), and started getting better and then got hurt. Very few people could live up to the hype of that trade.

10. He must be a pretty good team guy. Uncharacteristically, last year, Bob McNair basically said that the PBuc trade was a mistake and that PBuc was no good. At that point, Buchanon could have trashed the team publicly (it wouldn't have been hard to do), but didn't. This comment is a bit of a stretch, I know, but I do find it interesting and says something to his character.

11. And so that this list can go to 11.....Contract Year

And this is what Kubiak says publicly:

Chronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3796503.html)

Cornering the market
Some think the Texans have a serious need at cornerback. With Dunta Robinson and Demarcus Faggins as the starters and Phillip Buchanon coming off the bench, they should be in the market for a corner.

"Phillip has the ability," coach Gary Kubiak said. "He's got to stay on the field. When you're looking at him as the third corner, that's a pretty talented young man."

Uh, Gary, you must have missed last season's Pittsburgh game in which Buchanon's matador attempt to tackle running back Willie Parker on a touchdown made him Public Enemy No. 1 with the fans and media.

"It's interesting you mention that play," Kubiak said. "When I came to Houston, I was passing Phillip in the tunnel one day, so we started talking. He brought it up to me.

"He said, 'I know you heard about my play against Pittsburgh.' I had no idea. I hadn't seen the play or talked about it.

"I do know he's an extremely talented young man. I know in Denver, we loved him when he came out of college. If I'm not mistaken, he's in the last year of his contract. It's a big year for him. We've expect to get his best effort."

Kubiak at the draft luncheon said that he considered our secondary a strength.

And our draft strategy doesn't seem that unusual-Profootballoutsiders linky (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/04/24/ramblings/nfl-draft/3828/):

At defensive end and cornerback you pretty much get what you pay for. The elite players are usually gone by the end of round two, but there are plenty useful players available after that. These positions are somewhat intertwined in that a good pass rush can help mask poor cover guys and vice versa. As a result, most teams tend to spend early picks on either one spot or the other according to their defensive philosophy. Teams that neglect both positions are those that either use a 3-4 alignment where linebackers and safeties provide most of the pressure (like Pittsburgh) or have a defense that routinely gets lit up like a Christmas tree (like Arizona and Green Bay).



Ultimately, you will never get those picks you traded for Buchanon back. They are a sunk cost so there is no benefit in holding that against him. If you try to ignore the way he was acquired because there is no way to unring that bell, he is a relatively inexpensive against the cap, experienced CB with good reasons to play better this year

Ultimately, this won't assuage all your concerns, but Rome or Houston can't be built in a day or a year, but a ton of these offseason moves seem to be giving us more quality depth.

:texflag:

TexansSeminole
05-17-2006, 11:07 PM
On the D-line that is something that irks me. You get Weaver and pay him DE money and then want to shuffle him to DT. I mean no disrespect, but that's a waste of money and talent. Weaver has been an end his entire pro career. Moving him in also means less playing time for TJ, more wasted money. Peek and Babin WTF. No disrespect but with Weaver and Williams their best shot would be at situational pass rushers. Nothing against Williams or Weaver their not the ones making the money decisions, but for all the money tied up on our line they better be ranked in the top 5 next yr. to even justify what's going on. If there's a trade it has to be a d-lineman included. We'll still eat up a cap hit, but damn that's just too much money sitting on the bench. You got 3-4 tackles making millions and 3-4 DE's making millions depending how you classify Weaver. The way I see it, it should be Weaver, Smith, TJ, Williams for the majority of plays with Babin or Peek whoever is better as situational. Payne, and Peek or Babin are expendable. Seeing as how they just re-signed Peek I would think Babin is closer to the door. They still have till June 1st to make cuts, but as of right now I don't see the financial sense in the personnel.

I agree with you 100%.

Trapped
05-18-2006, 12:25 AM
this is the first day of OTA, and just because weaver was line up at DT, ppl are going crazy.

These coaches are not dumb, they will put the players in accordingly. obvious run/goaline plays, we will have Weaver as DE and probably all 3dts in the play with Peek and Babin as linebackers. On obvious passing plays, we will have Peek and babin on the edges. Our base will probably be with whatever or whom we match up with better. A team with athletic lineman(denver), we will prolly use Weaver as DT, a team with maulers(pittsburgh), we may go with the Payne/Smith or Johnson combo.

Travis Johnson will have to earn his starting time. If Weaver is better than TJ at playing the DT position, then let Weaver play. I think people are afraid that TJ will not get playing time and will become a bust. It typically takes DT's 2-3 years to start regurlarly and be productive.

Just because not all of them are starters, having Depth at Dline is where i would want my team to have depth at. DLine or Oline depth in my opinion is more important than DB depth.

CMoak1982
05-18-2006, 12:36 AM
Weavers natural position is DT, coming out of ND thats what he was, 34 ends are just athletic DTs anyways. I have no problem with him playing DT, Denver has a system on the d-line of rotating fresh players very frequently, they took theirs and Clevelands and made a d out of it, granted they have some athletic playmaking lb's something I feel we need more of, but it is a start. The depth at DLine gives us so many options on any down. The only problem is value, with Smith, Payne, Weaver, Peek, Babin, Johnson, Kalu, Williams, we have alot of money tied up, now can all produce for the dollar amount. I have no doubt our run d will improve, and have a pass rush with just downed lineman but still alot of money. It is a nice problem to have though. I still think our back seven need some talent upgrade. We need a playmaker at lb, and possibly a legit starter at safety or cb. I like the youth but still have doubts.

Trapped
05-18-2006, 12:50 AM
We just came off a 2-14 season. On paper, i think we are good enough to be 8-8.

Realistically, our holes are FS, CB, LB, OLine still needs to prove themselves(but i think we drafted two legit starters for the future and we have two o-line gurus) and that is about all of our holes.

For a team coming off a 2-14 season, that is not bad because C.C Brown is a year older, Buchanon is in contract year and still young(this is a reach because i gave up on pburnt), and i am very high on Orr and excited about what Ryans can bring to the table in the near future.

Let's just say we are in way better shape than any of the previous seasons we ever had. period

CMoak1982
05-18-2006, 01:18 AM
Talent wise and Depth wise I think we could maybe be 8-8 and thats a big maybe. Granted there are still holes especially in the secondary and I believe linebackers. I think more like a 6 or 7 win season, giving a year for Kubiak to get systems implemented and getting his type of players. Orr is or could possibly be good, but if I'm not mistaken he played end at Michigan and is more of a pass rusher than a linebacker. The problem is our only true linebackers are recently acquired or hurt. Our offseason has been absolutely terrific with the whole grand scheme of things, new staff (which I personally think will succeed at a high rate) quality veterans, and important pieces in the lines where it all starts. Our O-line will be vastly improved with just the depth and quality of the new acquisitions, not to mention two great offesive minds molding the group. New weapons, and I think our Offense could be better than our 04 group. Our defense has been the worst part of our team since the beginning if you don't count the first year. They are consistently getting beat. New scheme should change the running on us, and with a decent pass rush we might be able to get a few more turnovers, but we are awfully young and not that talented in our back 7 on defense.

stevo3883
05-18-2006, 11:04 AM
The Top Reasons Why PBuc will Be Better This Year:

1. Contract Year he needs to worry about being an nfl caliber player before he worries about his contract

2. Better defensive scheme for our personnel. Heck, a better offense will keep the defense off the field and more rested. well we have yet to see the scheme for the defense, so there is no telling if its better or helps out our weak secondary

3. Better Defensive Line and pass rush we were 14th, middle of the pack in sakcs, and our db's still couldnt cover anyone to save their lives. we shouldnt have to be top 5 in sacks to get any production from our dbs

4. Contract Year he won't get a contract over 1 year from anyone

5. PBuc knows what people think about his matador thing--he brought it up to Gary Kubiak. As much grief that people heap on him, you would have to think that this is something that he would be working on just from a personal pride standpoint. pbuc is extremely egotistical, and honestly i doubt he cares what people think. his agent probably advised that.

6. PBuc seemed to be playing better last year right before he got hurt. Coaches said he was just playing more instead of over thinking. im sorry but was this good play before or after he got benched? i never saw any thing in him last year that led me to believe he can play

7. Contract Year he would be lucky to get a gaffney type deal after this season

8. DB coach is the same. I am guessing he may have been one of the people recommending the pick up last year and still sees something in him. You would think that PBuc isn't a total scrub and malcontent and uncoachable if he is being kept around. (or maybe it is that he is cheap). oh it is definitely that he is cheap. glenn was 10x the player he is, but he wasnt cheap

9. Part of the ugliness about PBuc is the way the trade happened. That wasn't any fault of his. If you divorce your feelings for him from what we had to give up to get him, and just judge him as a player, maybe he will be alright. He played poorly at the beginning of the season (like most of the team against good competition), and started getting better and then got hurt. Very few people could live up to the hype of that trade. you can't just forget what we gave up... we paid a large sum for his services, and he has delivered absolutely nothing. no picks, sucked on returns, team cancer... saying he played like most of theteam is untrue, had it been true we wouldve given up 100+ points a game

10. He must be a pretty good team guy. Uncharacteristically, last year, Bob McNair basically said that the PBuc trade was a mistake and that PBuc was no good. At that point, Buchanon could have trashed the team publicly (it wouldn't have been hard to do), but didn't. This comment is a bit of a stretch, I know, but I do find it interesting and says something to his character.the self-proclaimed next primetime? the guy that *****ed non stop in oakland? if pbuc had said 1 word last year he wouldve been cut no questions asked. a bust like him has no place to talk

11. And so that this list can go to 11.....Contract Year he has two years left as an nfl player, tops

kcwilson
05-18-2006, 11:25 AM
The Top Reasons Why PBuc will Be Better This Year:

1. Contract Year he needs to worry about being an nfl caliber player before he worries about his contract

2. Better defensive scheme for our personnel. Heck, a better offense will keep the defense off the field and more rested. well we have yet to see the scheme for the defense, so there is no telling if its better or helps out our weak secondary

3. Better Defensive Line and pass rush we were 14th, middle of the pack in sakcs, and our db's still couldnt cover anyone to save their lives. we shouldnt have to be top 5 in sacks to get any production from our dbs

4. Contract Year he won't get a contract over 1 year from anyone

5. PBuc knows what people think about his matador thing--he brought it up to Gary Kubiak. As much grief that people heap on him, you would have to think that this is something that he would be working on just from a personal pride standpoint. pbuc is extremely egotistical, and honestly i doubt he cares what people think. his agent probably advised that.

6. PBuc seemed to be playing better last year right before he got hurt. Coaches said he was just playing more instead of over thinking. im sorry but was this good play before or after he got benched? i never saw any thing in him last year that led me to believe he can play

7. Contract Year he would be lucky to get a gaffney type deal after this season

8. DB coach is the same. I am guessing he may have been one of the people recommending the pick up last year and still sees something in him. You would think that PBuc isn't a total scrub and malcontent and uncoachable if he is being kept around. (or maybe it is that he is cheap). oh it is definitely that he is cheap. glenn was 10x the player he is, but he wasnt cheap

9. Part of the ugliness about PBuc is the way the trade happened. That wasn't any fault of his. If you divorce your feelings for him from what we had to give up to get him, and just judge him as a player, maybe he will be alright. He played poorly at the beginning of the season (like most of the team against good competition), and started getting better and then got hurt. Very few people could live up to the hype of that trade. you can't just forget what we gave up... we paid a large sum for his services, and he has delivered absolutely nothing. no picks, sucked on returns, team cancer... saying he played like most of theteam is untrue, had it been true we wouldve given up 100+ points a game

10. He must be a pretty good team guy. Uncharacteristically, last year, Bob McNair basically said that the PBuc trade was a mistake and that PBuc was no good. At that point, Buchanon could have trashed the team publicly (it wouldn't have been hard to do), but didn't. This comment is a bit of a stretch, I know, but I do find it interesting and says something to his character.the self-proclaimed next primetime? the guy that *****ed non stop in oakland? if pbuc had said 1 word last year he wouldve been cut no questions asked. a bust like him has no place to talk

11. And so that this list can go to 11.....Contract Year he has two years left as an nfl player, tops

PBuc is the classic example of a college player automatically thinking that his natural talent alone is enough to help him succeed in the NFL. Unfortunately, I fear that a contract year always seems to make the best come out of a player.

Hopefully, if PBuc does play to expectations, that we don't overpay for his services in the future. You have to take consistency into account.

TheOgre
05-18-2006, 11:26 AM
Ok so first off I am not a supporter of the Mario pick @ #1
.
.
.
oh if we had only drafted derrick johnson. we wouldnt have a surplus of overpaid dt's, and we would have at least 1 proven linebacker.
.
.
.
Jon Scott in the 5th.

Your Longhorn glasses are showing through. I don't know if you wanted Bush or Young, but based on your post, I can venture a guess. Show some objectivity please. It is biased posts like these that make me embarrassed to be a Longhorn.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-18-2006, 11:38 AM
The Top Reasons Why PBuc will Be Better This Year:

1. Contract Year he needs to worry about being an nfl caliber player before he worries about his contract

2. Better defensive scheme for our personnel. Heck, a better offense will keep the defense off the field and more rested. well we have yet to see the scheme for the defense, so there is no telling if its better or helps out our weak secondary

3. Better Defensive Line and pass rush we were 14th, middle of the pack in sakcs, and our db's still couldnt cover anyone to save their lives. we shouldnt have to be top 5 in sacks to get any production from our dbs

4. Contract Year he won't get a contract over 1 year from anyone

5. PBuc knows what people think about his matador thing--he brought it up to Gary Kubiak. As much grief that people heap on him, you would have to think that this is something that he would be working on just from a personal pride standpoint. pbuc is extremely egotistical, and honestly i doubt he cares what people think. his agent probably advised that.

6. PBuc seemed to be playing better last year right before he got hurt. Coaches said he was just playing more instead of over thinking. im sorry but was this good play before or after he got benched? i never saw any thing in him last year that led me to believe he can play

7. Contract Year he would be lucky to get a gaffney type deal after this season

8. DB coach is the same. I am guessing he may have been one of the people recommending the pick up last year and still sees something in him. You would think that PBuc isn't a total scrub and malcontent and uncoachable if he is being kept around. (or maybe it is that he is cheap). oh it is definitely that he is cheap. glenn was 10x the player he is, but he wasnt cheap

9. Part of the ugliness about PBuc is the way the trade happened. That wasn't any fault of his. If you divorce your feelings for him from what we had to give up to get him, and just judge him as a player, maybe he will be alright. He played poorly at the beginning of the season (like most of the team against good competition), and started getting better and then got hurt. Very few people could live up to the hype of that trade. you can't just forget what we gave up... we paid a large sum for his services, and he has delivered absolutely nothing. no picks, sucked on returns, team cancer... saying he played like most of theteam is untrue, had it been true we wouldve given up 100+ points a game

10. He must be a pretty good team guy. Uncharacteristically, last year, Bob McNair basically said that the PBuc trade was a mistake and that PBuc was no good. At that point, Buchanon could have trashed the team publicly (it wouldn't have been hard to do), but didn't. This comment is a bit of a stretch, I know, but I do find it interesting and says something to his character.the self-proclaimed next primetime? the guy that *****ed non stop in oakland? if pbuc had said 1 word last year he wouldve been cut no questions asked. a bust like him has no place to talk

11. And so that this list can go to 11.....Contract Year he has two years left as an nfl player, tops


Is your other Handle BOBO??? just a thought you two might be related!!!

stevo3883
05-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Your Longhorn glasses are showing through. I don't know if you wanted Bush or Young, but based on your post, I can venture a guess. Show some objectivity please. It is biased posts like these that make me embarrassed to be a Longhorn.

give me a break. anyone with half a brain will agree that scott in the 5th is a steal.

derrick johnson is a better player than travis johnson, once again this is obvious. he also plays at a need position, and was drafted higher and played his entire rookie season.

and the first quote i wanted only reggie @ #1, or trade down for vince or dbrick.

it's called reading comprehension, look into it before you bash someone

V Man
05-18-2006, 12:55 PM
derrick johnson is a better player than travis johnson, once again this is obvious. he also plays at a need position, and was drafted higher and played his entire rookie season.




That one maybe be true now. But during that year of the draft, we were still running a 3-4 defense. And TJ made a better DE than DJ did a ILB in that system. (so I guess that goes back to the old coaching staff again.)

On a side note I thnik that TJ is going to start to pay dividends for us towards the end of this year and next do to the change of defensive schemes.

Vinny
05-18-2006, 01:22 PM
give me a break. anyone with half a brain will agree that scott in the 5th is a steal.

derrick johnson is a better player than travis johnson, once again this is obvious. he also plays at a need position, and was drafted higher and played his entire rookie season.

and the first quote i wanted only reggie @ #1, or trade down for vince or dbrick.

it's called reading comprehension, look into it before you bash someoneTrading back to get Travis Johnson got us our future RT in Eric Winston. If Travis Johnson pans out it was a great move. DJ by himself may not be the better move at the end of the day.

Texans_Chick
05-18-2006, 03:56 PM
we were 14th, middle of the pack in sakcs, and our db's still couldnt cover anyone to save their lives. we shouldnt have to be top 5 in sacks to get any production from our dbs

I'm not going to speak to your other comments because most of them aren't football comments but rather just kinda opining and bittering. I know that it is hard to get out of bittering mode after the performance of our D last year and 2-14

It is my belief that you cannot judge a dline completely based on sack totals. I think for those who watched the games and don't just rely on one statistic, the Texans could not stop the run. If the dbs have to worry that the folks up front aren't gonna stop the run, it distracts from coverage issues. And if a good RBs get into the secondary untouched and with a head of steam, I don't care if you are Dunta Robinson, you are going to have a hard time bringing that guy down.

Also, sacks tell only part of the story. Sometimes you go for the sack and you don't get it and your D gets burned. You cannot be telling me that you felt comfortable with the pass rush and run defense up front last year. I think ESPN featured the one play on their multimedia where Steve McNair had a bizillion years to throw a pass because he scrambled around and nobody could tackle him and he put it down field.

Long Baller
05-18-2006, 05:03 PM
Trading back to get Travis Johnson got us our future RT in Eric Winston. If Travis Johnson pans out it was a great move. DJ by himself may not be the better move at the end of the day.

I liked DJ last year as well but the 2 for 1 Vinny points out really makes this deal because Eric Winston can turn into a stud OL for us for many years.

stevo3883
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
I liked DJ last year as well but the 2 for 1 Vinny points out really makes this deal because Eric Winston can turn into a stud OL for us for many years.

the thing is we still couldve drafted him with our 3rd round pick...

TexanFan881
05-18-2006, 05:49 PM
the thing is we still couldve drafted him with our 3rd round pick...

Good point. I think we should look at it as Derrick Johnson for Travis Johnson and Charles Spencer. There's no doubt in my mind that we would pick Winston over Spencer. Just because we picked Winston with 66 it doesn't matter because whoever we pick at 65, the other guy we want will be available with 66.

Seņor Stan
05-18-2006, 06:02 PM
Good point. I think we should look at it as Derrick Johnson for Travis Johnson and Charles Spencer. There's no doubt in my mind that we would pick Winston over Spencer. Just because we picked Winston with 66 it doesn't matter because whoever we pick at 65, the other guy we want will be available with 66.

If what the draft commentary I've read is true, the Texans are projecting Spencer as a future LT and Winston as a RT.

If the Texans did not have #66, I think they take Spencer, not Winston.

Tex Trenches
05-18-2006, 07:51 PM
I've never been less concerned about a Texans upcoming season.

swtbound07
05-19-2006, 12:10 AM
I've never been less concerned about a Texans upcoming season.

funny.....i've never been more.

Kaiser Toro
05-19-2006, 12:19 AM
I've never been less concerned about a Texans upcoming season.

So unconcerned that you had to make a post? You may have gotten the Texans MB mixed up with the Rosie O'Donnell show MB in addressing your concerns. Don't worry, it happens all of the time around here.

ojthecat
05-19-2006, 12:33 AM
I am concerned for Payton Manning!!!!

ensign_lee
05-19-2006, 03:12 AM
funny.....i've never been more.

Indeed. Stoked tough. :mario:

TheOgre
05-19-2006, 10:48 AM
give me a break. anyone with half a brain will agree that scott in the 5th is a steal.
Obviously teams let him drop like a lead weight, so there must be a reason he wasn't taken until the 5th.

If there was a Longhorn steal in the draft, it was Rodrique Wright taken in the 7th by Miami. Once he comes back from his surgery, he will make them happy. He was projected as a top 10 pick prior to last season.



derrick johnson is a better player than travis johnson, once again this is obvious. he also plays at a need position, and was drafted higher and played his entire rookie season.

Will Derrick Johnson be better than Travis Johnson AND Eric Winston? I don't think so.