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Texans34Life
05-16-2006, 04:11 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3865842.html

Texans hit field for first time under new coach

The introductions are over. Now Gary Kubiak finally gets to start coaching.

For the first time since the Texans' season ended with an overtime loss in San Francisco on Jan. 1, the team will take the field today at Reliant Park.

There are new coaches, new players and an entirely new system. With the opener just 17 weeks away, there's also a lot of work ahead.

The Texans will try to chip away at their list when they start organized team activities (OTAs), which will take place four days each week until their first minicamp begins June 7.

Kaiser Toro
05-16-2006, 07:17 AM
I feel the same way Chester:

Players who have been with the Texans all four years of their existence are especially ready to start seeing progress.

"I'm excited to get out there, learn a new system and get good because I want to win games," left guard Chester Pitts said. "It's never exciting to really go practice. Who wants to do that?

"But going into my fifth season, next to my rookie year, this is the most excited I've been."

beerlover
05-16-2006, 07:39 AM
I feel the same way Chester:

"But going into my fifth season, next to my rookie year, this is the most excited I've been."

Chester Rules :heh:

Marcus
05-16-2006, 07:43 AM
I can tell that some of you already are setting yourselves up for a big letdown with the "I'm looking for instant results" crud . . .

Chill. . . else you be running around acting like :chicken: after about the 2nd preseason game.

cuppacoffee
05-16-2006, 08:21 AM
I can tell that some of you already are setting yourselves up for a big letdown with the "I'm looking for instant results" crud . . .

Chill. . . else you be running around acting like :chicken: after about the 2nd preseason game.

Sounds like you are setting yourself up also.

Minimal improvement = "I told you so"

Great improvement= " I'm so glad I was wrong"

Can't lose can you?

:coffee:

Runner
05-16-2006, 08:26 AM
Competition for starting jobs won't wait until training camp. The entire roster is expected to attend this week's sessions, with just a few sitting out because of lingering injuries from last season.


Voluntary in name only - not that anyone who hopes to compete would dare miss them if they were :)


"I think it'll be good for us to constantly have guys working to keep their jobs, because that's what the NFL is supposed to be about," said Antwan Peek, who is making the shift from outside linebacker to defensive end. "If one guy is competing better than the other, then he deserves to have that position. And I think that will keep guys more focused and more on top of the things that they need to be doing. I think it'll benefit us."


It is refreshing to see that the players will really be competing for their jobs.


I can tell that some of you already are setting yourselves up for a big letdown with the "I'm looking for instant results" crud . . .



I consider not being embarrassed by the play on the field to be an improvement, and I think we'll meet that minimum requirement. We'll look like a professional team on the field, we'll compete, and wins will follow at some rate.

beerlover
05-16-2006, 08:45 AM
Chill. . . else you be running around acting like :chicken: after about the 2nd preseason game.

there is always the draft :cool: listen even pre-season is important,YOU PLAY LIKE YOU PRACTICE, everything is important and even the smallest detail is a part of THE BIG PICTURE.

some of us are for the first time are not only giddy about the prospects for improvement but feel this franchise has truely turned the corner even if its another 5 year plan we're all on board- winning will prove us out, but for those who choose the negative, prove it first mentality thats understandable for those so inclined :hides:

SnakeOilTanker
05-16-2006, 09:01 AM
when do we get to see pictures. I wanna see how Mario looks in deep steel blue

Bobo
05-16-2006, 09:04 AM
there is always the draft :cool: listen even pre-season is important,YOU PLAY LIKE YOU PRACTICE, everything is important and even the smallest detail is a part of THE BIG PICTURE.

some of us are for the first time are not only giddy about the prospects for improvement but feel this franchise has truely turned the corner even if its another 5 year plan we're all on board- winning will prove us out, but for those who choose the negative, prove it first mentality thats understandable for those so inclined :hides:

First of all, let's be real. Nothing is as boring as pre-season. The teams put their first units in for a few plays and then yank them out. The only folks that get any playing time are for the most part players who won't even be around come September. Nuff said about pre-season. Secondly, Capers improved this team from 2002 to 2004 so it's not like the Texans have never gone through that experience. As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

nunusguy
05-16-2006, 09:30 AM
I got that "guarded optimism" thing going. In other words, I'm feeling positive but keeping my expectations under control, that way you don't set yourself up for a big letdown. And it just wouldn't be realistic to get too cocky, afterall we did have the worst record in the NFL last year.
Even these "organized workouts", or whatever they call them, are of great interest to me, and when we finally get into full blown TC in July, that's a big
deal.
But I'm pretty much with Chester on this, probably my most exciting season
with the Texans since their inaugural year.

thunderkyss
05-16-2006, 09:56 AM
Y'know........ I kinda agree with Bobo.... The team was on an upswing since the 2002 season. & I put alot of the blame on David Carr. Many feel that is unfair, but that's the way it is. Yes, our game plan was silly last year. But I honestly think the offense regressed in the past three years.... I don't know if that was Capers being cautious...... or because he didn't feel good about David Carr.

I'm not trying to bag on David, but trying to look at the whole picture. There is usually a reason why an offense would get simpler & simpler over time, & it usually isn't because the coach grows more cautious as he gets older. Especially not when he's got the same team he's been coaching for 4 years. We didn't draft one OL in '04....... and didn't add any personnell to the line. We weren't the only ones who could see problems on our OL...... every fan of every team that played us knew it...... every coach of every team that played us knew it.... & even though the guys on ESPN never talked about us, they knew it......... are we supposed to believe Capers was the only one who didn't see it??

Then Reeves comes in, and says it isn't the talent....... we have plenty of that. Kubiak comes in, and ratifies the decision, by resigning everyone of our starters.... minus Milford Brown, who was picked up to start with that Arizona Cardinals..... a team that drafted Fitzgerald, & Bolden, who picked up Kurt Warner, and Edge, drafted Lienart....... Denny Green has made a lot of "smart" personell decisions, we can only assume this is one of them.

So who's going to start next year?? Same guys as last basically.Wand, Pitts, Flanagan(new guy) McKinney, and Wiegart/Winston(new guy)....

I'm not a coach...... and you guys know my football knowledge ain't all that. But I do help with my daughters softball team. & I've noticed when there is a particular pitcher on the mound, the rest of the team doesn't try as hard, as when one of the other girls is pitching. This particular pitcher criticises the rest of the team, and her attitude, is that she is stuck with a bad team. But they play well, for the other pitchers.

I'm not saying David criticizes the rest of the team, or that he gives off a "I'm better than you" attitude. But something isn't right, & I think Carr is at the heart of it. Hopefully, the players are giving everyone a new slate, and they can start from scratch, and really put something together.

But whatever.

I don't think this is going to be a totally new system...... We're going to improve on the zone blocking that we've run for the last two year. We're going to get the tightend more involved, we're going to protect our QB, and we are going to be more agressive., less predictable.

If we'd have been a little more aggresive last year, and less predictable, we'd have won at least 3 more games. & if our D didn't go to sleep in the 4th, we'd have won 4...... so that's 7 wins, we should've been 9-7. I'm going from there, when I predict our 13-3 in 2006.

I'm going to be disappointed if we don't make it...... but no more disappointed than any of us should be if we don't go 8-8, or if we don't make the play-offs.

Ibar_Harry
05-16-2006, 10:00 AM
As is often said one can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, reports on how people are looking will be very informative. Many of us believe that Carr will be a lot better under Kubiak. The WR's and TE's should be a lot better. We will want to know how people are fitting in and how the timings look. We want to know how MW is looking. Yes, there is a lot to look forward to from both a hearing and seeing point of view. I still believe that we are going to be the shock of the league this year. The one thing that is worrisome is DD's knee. He really is a big piece of our offense.

Ibar_Harry
05-16-2006, 10:08 AM
Y'know........ I kinda agree with Bobo.... The team was on an upswing since the 2002 season. & I put alot of the blame on David Carr. Many feel that is unfair, but that's the way it is. Yes, our game plan was silly last year. But I honestly think the offense regressed in the past three years.... I don't know if that was Capers being cautious...... or because he didn't feel good about David Carr.

I'm not trying to bag on David, but trying to look at the whole picture. There is usually a reason why an offense would get simpler & simpler over time, & it usually isn't because the coach grows more cautious as he gets older. Especially not when he's got the same team he's been coaching for 4 years. We didn't draft one OL in '04....... and didn't add any personnell to the line. We weren't the only ones who could see problems on our OL...... every fan of every team that played us knew it...... every coach of every team that played us knew it.... & even though the guys on ESPN never talked about us, they knew it......... are we supposed to believe Capers was the only one who didn't see it??

Then Reeves comes in, and says it isn't the talent....... we have plenty of that. Kubiak comes in, and ratifies the decision, by resigning everyone of our starters.... minus Milford Brown, who was picked up to start with that Arizona Cardinals..... a team that drafted Fitzgerald, & Bolden, who picked up Kurt Warner, and Edge, drafted Lienart....... Denny Green has made a lot of "smart" personell decisions, we can only assume this is one of them.

So who's going to start next year?? Same guys as last basically.Wand, Pitts, Flanagan(new guy) McKinney, and Wiegart/Winston(new guy)....

I'm not a coach...... and you guys know my football knowledge ain't all that. But I do help with my daughters softball team. & I've noticed when there is a particular pitcher on the mound, the rest of the team doesn't try as hard, as when one of the other girls is pitching. This particular pitcher criticises the rest of the team, and her attitude, is that she is stuck with a bad team. But they play well, for the other pitchers.

I'm not saying David criticizes the rest of the team, or that he gives off a "I'm better than you" attitude. But something isn't right, & I think Carr is at the heart of it. Hopefully, the players are giving everyone a new slate, and they can start from scratch, and really put something together.

But whatever.

I don't think this is going to be a totally new system...... We're going to improve on the zone blocking that we've run for the last two year. We're going to get the tightend more involved, we're going to protect our QB, and we are going to be more agressive., less predictable.

If we'd have been a little more aggresive last year, and less predictable, we'd have won at least 3 more games. & if our D didn't go to sleep in the 4th, we'd have won 4...... so that's 7 wins, we should've been 9-7. I'm going from there, when I predict our 13-3 in 2006.

I'm going to be disappointed if we don't make it...... but no more disappointed than any of us should be if we don't go 8-8, or if we don't make the play-offs.

I disagree with your statement on Carr, but only time will tell. The reason I disagree is if you think back who Carr hit in the back with a pass, because he wasn't ready to receive it. Basically, except for AJ we really went out and totally replaced our WR's and TE's. They changed that group of players for a reason. I think the answer was our receivers as a whole really weren't that good and nobody wanted to believe that. Remember, everyone was always saying we needed to take the pressure off of AJ. Well, no receiver we had could do that. Now, we have a new group of players who look like they are a very good unit. If Carr can't play well with this group, providing the O-line holds up, then I will agree with you.

wrestler4life
05-16-2006, 10:36 AM
Curious then if Carr will be at these practices?

Runner
05-16-2006, 10:42 AM
Curious then if Carr will be at these practices?

What? Of course he is - why wouldn't he be? Did I miss something?

Marcus
05-16-2006, 11:00 AM
Curious then if Carr will be at these practices?
I'm more curious to see if Carr will be staying after practice.

Runner
05-16-2006, 11:09 AM
Oh Oh. Here we go...

kcwilson
05-16-2006, 11:30 AM
The one thing that is worrisome is DD's knee. He really is a big piece of our offense.

After 2-14, there are many things to be worrisome about. However, the fact that DD is still imited to not be able to participate is a giant red siren going off with bells, horns, and whistles. So basically, it has been 6 months and the knee is still a problem.

And in two months, he is going to start pounding the knee again and then really start pounding it about a month and a half after that... Then the knee needs to stay healthy for 17 weeks (plus hopefully an extra week or two).

I hope Morency gets plenty of prep time in TC, otherwise we have some real 'green' RB's to shoulder the running offense this year.

My bet is DD is reinjured by week 4. Love the guy, but starting to think that he will never be healthy for a full season.

TheCD
05-16-2006, 11:36 AM
I'm not a coach...... and you guys know my football knowledge ain't all that. But I do help with my daughters softball team. & I've noticed when there is a particular pitcher on the mound, the rest of the team doesn't try as hard, as when one of the other girls is pitching. This particular pitcher criticises the rest of the team, and her attitude, is that she is stuck with a bad team. But they play well, for the other pitchers.



I understand this criticism, but I don't think Carr fits in this example. Perhaps last year the team started becoming critical of Carr because he wasn't helping to turn the bad luck...but look at all the hard work he's put in this offseason. I'll say that if I had my choice of being on the team that had the hardest working QB in the league...it'd definitely be the Texans. Whether we do well or not this season, Carr is making sure (as well and AJ and the other vets that have been showing up this offseason) that at least HE has done everything he can.

And anyways, they didn't play too well for Banks either...

Vinny
05-16-2006, 11:38 AM
However, the fact that DD is still imited to not be able to participate is a giant red siren going off with bells, horns, and whistles. So basically, it has been 6 months and the knee is still a problem.

And in two months, he is going to start pounding the knee again and then really start pounding it about a month and a half after that... Then the knee needs to stay healthy for 17 weeks (plus hopefully an extra week or two).

I hope Morency gets plenty of prep time in TC, otherwise we have some real 'green' RB's to shoulder the running offense this year.

My bet is DD is reinjured by week 4. Love the guy, but starting to think that he will never be healthy for a full season.I like Morency's game and now that he has a feel for the pro game (no more rookie jitters) I think he can become a hell of a back for us. Dom's knee is probably why we are looking so hard at extra backs this offseason (not to appear as Mr Obvious), but 'green' backs are not worrysome imo. Morency and Smith have enough NFL experience to make our running game work. I can't wait to see Lundy as well.

BigBull17
05-16-2006, 11:52 AM
As long as they give Morencey some new shoes with better grip we will be ok. He showed flashes last year of being a good back but at time he looked like his shoes were made of bananna peels.:chicken:

the wonger need food
05-16-2006, 11:56 AM
Secondly, Capers improved this team from 2002 to 2004 so it's not like the Texans have never gone through that experience. As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

Wrong, wrong and wrong.... again. Capers had them improving until mid-way thru 2004. If you recall, they were horrible in the second half of 2004. The team gave up on Capers' and this is well documented with player statements from that stretch. That simply carried over to 2005. If Capers and his jokers were kept around for 2006 they probably wouldn't win a single game. Capers will never be a head coach in the NFL again because antiquated style does not translate to today's NFL players.

I think that the players are genuinely excited about having Kubiak onboard. They are finally going to run actual NFL schemes and play to win. They might even blow a few teams out this year.

Malloy
05-16-2006, 12:07 PM
I can tell that some of you already are setting yourselves up for a big letdown with the "I'm looking for instant results" crud . . .

Chill. . . else you be running around acting like :chicken: after about the 2nd preseason game.

I'm just getting all giddy about the changes. If it turns out that we kick rump too, well then that's just a bonus for me! :)

rafterticket
05-16-2006, 12:36 PM
I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever.......Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field........But he had a bad year....and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

That was not a bad year. That was a bus over the cliff, after the wheels fell off, and the driver was Dom Capers, navigated by Charlie Casserly. His coordinators were the mechanics.

How you say Mike Sherman and Gary Kubiak are "inexperienced" is beyond logic, but that's okay. Actually, I think the rest of the staff has much NFL experience, too. Where do you think they came from? They aren't old classmates of Gary's from Jesuit, you know.

I don't think anyone is having a revisionist view of Dom Capers; I think they are more likely letting out what they may have thought all along. Frankly, I hated that "offense", but as long as they were on an upward arch I was going to say fine. But that wheel came off last year, and the defense went to pot (does anyone else remember how the secondary would HIT two seasons ago? I mean Jason Simmons may have played a large part in derailing Chris Brown's career with the Titans.). So no one is going to tolerate any more, and say whatever they like about that staff.

Do you really think anyone is going to praise Dom Capers? Again, personally, I can only say the word giddy because Kubiak, his staff and the front office are making ACTUAL, REAL-LIVE football decisions that look like they are moving the team in a forward direction. (I am still trying to figure out who Jason Babin was in college.) Outside of the gut-wrenching shocker Kubes dropped on us, and now that it has worn off, he probably made some pretty good choices this draft.

I'll be giddy again just if the first units LOOK good in preseason (win or no win, who cares, it's preseason), and giddy a third time just if they make it back to 8-8. I miss that swagger we all had as fans when we swept the Titans and the Jags. I'm not asking for much - just a clear sign we are moving forward once more.

DRAMA
05-16-2006, 01:07 PM
Inexperience? Jerry Glanville has experience...maybe we could hire him and that would 'allow' us to be giddy?

Let's see - Dunta, AJ, and Davis had NO experience in the NFL but we drafted them. Bob McNair had NO experience as an NFL owner but he bought a team. For goodness sakes, most of the cheerleaders had NO experience dancing with fakes b00bs but they learned!! :)

Do you know what Jimmy Johnson, Bill Belicheck, Bill Parcells, and Vince Lombardi have in common? At one time, they were ALL inexperienced...


:crutch:

Jwwillis
05-16-2006, 01:22 PM
I can tell that some of you already are setting yourselves up for a big letdown with the "I'm looking for instant results" crud . . .

Chill. . . else you be running around acting like :chicken: after about the 2nd preseason game.

Winning more than 2 games this year constitutes "instant results". I for one think the Texans can do that.

titan hater
05-16-2006, 02:11 PM
Where do you think they came from? They aren't old classmates of Gary's from Jesuit, you know.

He went to St. Pius...Please don't mention Jesuit again...We St Thomas alums tend to get offended when we see Jesuit mentioned...

rittenhouserobz
05-16-2006, 02:14 PM
Does anybody know what time they are going to practice today? I was just interested in how the OL and Mario Williams are getting along.

GP
05-16-2006, 03:33 PM
First of all, let's be real. Nothing is as boring as pre-season. The teams put their first units in for a few plays and then yank them out. The only folks that get any playing time are for the most part players who won't even be around come September. Nuff said about pre-season. Secondly, Capers improved this team from 2002 to 2004 so it's not like the Texans have never gone through that experience. As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

One good season, which SHOULD have led to a playoff season.

It didn't, and not only did it NOT get us even a sniff of the playoff hunt...it was also a defining season in terms of winning only two games which left no doubt that any successes in the past seasons were a result of our players somehow overcoming the coach's flawed system/philosophy.

Capers was never disliked as a person, but he did no favors to anybody by apparently (in my opinion) continuing to do things his way and not the way it should have been done per our team's players and their strengths.

Capers comes from the old school of coaching that says a coach is entirely the one who calls plays, etc., etc. And the players do it.

We're in a new era where players are gifted enough to be trusted on their instincts and their talent, and to even sometimes be given some creative license to script playcalling as the game occurs, and Carr never had a prayer (excuse the pun) of being allowed to do anything more than call the shots for a mere one half of the Arizona game. Nope. Capers had his sheet of plays, which consisted mostly of quick hitches and dump-off passes to the running back. Oh, and that snazzy "audible" that he allowed Carr to use...which was a very sad joke when you think about it. Sad.

And apparently the owner of this team, the consultant, and the new head coach all feel that Carr's playcalling in the Zona game was enough to show that the coach was flawed and the player(s) is NOT. Thus, it was time to transition this team into the hands of a vastly MORE successful offensive-minded coach who I promise will run circles around Capers' efforts.

BullPenPhotos
05-16-2006, 03:47 PM
when do we get to see pictures. I wanna see how Mario looks in deep steel blue

Pictures have been posted...The only thing I can add is that Mario is one BIG solid dude...

Practice Photos (http://www.texansbullpen.com/06photogallery/Preseason/2006-05-16-PlayerPractice/2006-05-16-PlayerPractice.htm)

Shantee Orr 6'0" 235lbs....Mario Williams 6'6" 291lbs
http://www.texansbullpen.com/06photogallery/Preseason/2006-05-16-PlayerPractice/Photos/DSC_0317.JPG

kingh99
05-16-2006, 03:52 PM
First of all, let's be real. Nothing is as boring as pre-season. The teams put their first units in for a few plays and then yank them out. The only folks that get any playing time are for the most part players who won't even be around come September. Nuff said about pre-season. Secondly, Capers improved this team from 2002 to 2004 so it's not like the Texans have never gone through that experience. As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

Bobo, man Capers was a fly catcher. He stood on the sidelines gap mouthed with nothing to say. Nada. Zilch. Terrible terrible leader. Get over it. It doesn't become you to try and defend the defunct regime. They are all gone now. And for a reason. They stunk.

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 04:01 PM
As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."


Please tell me that you are being Andy Kaufman/Tony Clifton-provocatively-funny-on-purpose. This is hysterical.

Mike Holmgren-link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Holmgren)


Holmgren was head coach of the Green Bay Packers from 1992-1998, which became one of the most successful coaching stints in NFL history. One of Holmgren's first moves was to obtain Brett Favre from the Atlanta Falcons. As head coach of the Packers, Holmgren posted a 75-37-0 (67.0%) regular-season record, a 9-5 (64.3%) postseason mark, and two Super Bowl appearances, including a 35-21 victory over the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XXXI. By winning at least one game in five consecutive postseasons (1993-1997) Holmgren joined John Madden (1973-1977) as the only coaches in league history to accomplish the feat. Holmgren's Packers posted an NFL-best 48-16 (75.0%) record, finished first in the NFC Central Division three times, second once, and set a 7-3 mark in the playoffs between 1995 and 1998. By taking the Packers to six consecutive postseasons (1993-1998), Holmgren set a franchise record with a team that had had just two winning seasons in the 19 years before he was hired.
....
Holmgren took the Seahawks to their first postseason since 1988 during his first season with the club in 1999, breaking a 10-year playoff drought. Holmgren has posted a 63-49 (56.3%) regular-season record and a 2-3 (40.0%) postseason record, including an AFC West Division title (1999), two NFC West Division titles (2004 and 2005), an NFC championship (2005), and the Seahawks' first-ever berth in a Super Bowl.


Paul Brown-link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brown)

With avid support from an influential group of people, Brown moved into the college ranks by becoming head coach of those same Ohio State Buckeyes in 1941. Under Brown, the Buckeyes went 18-8-1 (1941-43), with his only loss during that first season coming against Northwestern University and their running back Otto Graham. The following year, Brown led the Buckeyes to the university's first National championship in 1942, but was unable to sustain that success when World War II depleted his talented corps of players the following year.

....While the AAFC lasted only four seasons, the Browns served as the gold standard for the league, winning the championship each year and outdrawing the Cleveland's NFL franchise, the Rams, who had left town for Los Angeles after winning the NFL championship in 1945......

Following the merger between the NFL and AAFC, The Browns, along with the San Francisco 49ers and Baltimore Colts, moved to the NFL in 1950 and didn't miss a beat, winning the NFL Championship in their first year. Critics had predicted that the overall weakness of the AAFC would expose the Browns, but the team defeated the Rams in the title game on December 24 on a last-minute field goal by Lou Groza. The Browns went on to appear in the next five title games, winning back-to-back titles in 1954 and 1955

Bill Cowher-link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher)

He became the fifteenth head coach in Steelers history when he replaced Chuck Noll on January 21, 1992 – but only the second head coach since the NFL merger in 1970. In 1995, at age 38, he became the youngest coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl. Cowher is only the second coach in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first six seasons as head coach, joining Pro Football Hall of Fame member Paul Brown. In Cowher’s 14 seasons, the Steelers have captured eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, advanced to six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles. It has become an article of faith among NFL pundits that the Steelers do not have a bad team two years in a row – they have never lost 10 or more games in consecutive years since the 1970 NFL merger. At the conclusion of the 2005 season, the Pittsburgh Steelers have the best record of any team in the National Football League since Cowher was hired as head coach.

Dom Capers-link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_Capers)

He remained with the Steelers until becoming head coach of the expansion Carolina Panthers in 1995. After 1995's 7-9 season, a record breaking mark for an expansion team, the Panthers went to the NFC Championship game in 1996. Continuing to spend against the salary cap, and eventually taking control of personnel matters in 1997, the Panthers went 7-9, followed by a dismal 4-12 season in 1998, at the end of which he was terminated.....

After being let go from the Panthers, he served as an assistant with the Jacksonville Jaguars until becoming the head coach of the expansion Houston Texans on January 21, 2001. After starting out 4-12 (2002) and 5-11 (2003) in his first two seasons in Houston, the Texans posted a 7-9 mark in 2004.

Capers was known for his abilities as a defensive coach, and for his conservative play-calling on offense. Several TV announcers were known to predict Texans plays on occasion. He was also famous because he kept a 17 hour per day work schedule and sleeping just five hours per night, often on a couch in his office.

The Texans announced in 2005 following their dismal record of 2-14 (worst in NFL) that Capers would be fired January 2, 2006.


Please. For the love of football and all that is holy, please stop comparing Dom Capers to Holmgren, Brown and Cowhers. I know wiki-ing you is a little excessive, and I like Capers as a person lot, but GEEZ, only you and, (making a big assumption here), Mrs. Capers would believe that Dom Capers is Mr. Excitement. And certainly he has not built up enough good will in his career to get through a season as ugly as the 2005 Texans season and not expect to get canned. C'mon now, this is getting silly.


(BTW, are you Dom Caper's wife? Just curious.)

wenskek
05-16-2006, 04:07 PM
Where do you think they came from? They aren't old classmates of Gary's from Jesuit, you know.

He went to St. Pius...Please don't mention Jesuit again...We St Thomas alums tend to get offended when we see Jesuit mentioned...


hey titan hater i graduated from st. thomas too in 04 and my brother in 98 cool to see some other guys on here from st. thomas.

gsbtxn
05-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Those absent include running back Domanick Davis (knee), right tackle Todd Wade (knee) and middle linebacker Kailee Wong (knee).

Once again the Chronic apparently has no idea what's going on over there at Reliant...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/gsbtexan/wong.jpg

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 04:12 PM
Pictures have been posted...The only thing I can add is that Mario is one BIG solid dude...

Shantee Orr 6'0" 235lbs....Mario Williams 6'6" 291lbs



Andy, nice photos as always. BIG UPS!

A few thoughts about the pics.

1. Mathis' hands look OK from afar. (not bandaged)

2. Nice seeing Bennie catching a pass.

3. Kubiak and Sherman are both wearing long sleeve shirts outside????? Got a little cold front through, but nothing worthy of long sleeves. They must be keeping the offices mighty cold and they just didn't think to change out of them.

4. HURRAY FOR FOOTBALL!!!!

Bobo
05-16-2006, 04:12 PM
Please tell me that you are being Andy Kaufman/Tony Clifton-provocatively-funny-on-purpose. This is hysterical.

Please. For the love of football and all that is holy, please stop comparing Dom Capers to Holmgren, Brown and Cowhers.

A.) Tony Clifton? And isn't Andy Kaufman dead? B.) You say not to compare the three to Capers, then you go ahead and compare them. You many not realize it, but you've only buttressed my point even more by showing all three guys came back to accomplish great things after having awful seasons. Unfortunately, Capers was never given that chance in Houston.

trane
05-16-2006, 04:20 PM
First of all, let's be real. Nothing is as boring as pre-season. The teams put their first units in for a few plays and then yank them out. The only folks that get any playing time are for the most part players who won't even be around come September. Nuff said about pre-season. Secondly, Capers improved this team from 2002 to 2004 so it's not like the Texans have never gone through that experience. As far as being "giddy" goes, I feel just the exact opposite. I cheered myself hoarse for this team for four years. But with the firing of Capers and the hiring of Kubiak, I feel the excitement and intensity has disappeared. The players will always be positive because that's their job. Obviously they are hopeful they will do better, but they would be hopeful no matter who the coach is. I believe there has been a lot of revisionist history floating around regarding this team where Capers suddenly has become the worst coach ever. Funny how that wasn't the case back from 2002-4 and when people began to talk playoffs before the 2005 seaon. If the Texans were so bad and if Capers was such a bad coach, I doubt folks would have been talking like that. People don't say, "Our team stinks and our coach is awful, but we're going to the playoffs next year!" No, Capers gave them reason for optimism due to the team's performance on the field. But he had a bad year -- as did Holmgren and Paul Brown and Cowher -- and he was summarily ushered out the door. Now the team is left with an inexperienced coach as well as an inexperienced staff and they are the only football people in the organization at this time. Sorry, I see no reason to be "giddy."

I'm giddy because I think the Texans will be the most improved team in the league next year. I think the offense will be much improved if for no other reason...they will not be as predictable as they were last year. The reason David Carr got sacked so much was because the offense was so predictable. The defense will still need some work but I think adding veteran leadership like Cowart will help.

mexican_texan
05-16-2006, 04:23 PM
A.) Tony Clifton? And isn't Andy Kaufman dead? B.) You say not to compare the three to Capers, then you go ahead and compare them. You many not realize it, but you've only buttressed my point even more by showing all three guys came back to accomplish great things after having awful seasons. Unfortunately, Capers was never given that chance in Houston.
I think Tony Clifton was the unfunny alter ego of Andy Kaufman...Capers was given four years and that is enough for any coach.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 04:26 PM
Bobo, man Capers was a fly catcher. He stood on the sidelines gap mouthed with nothing to say. Nada. Zilch. Terrible terrible leader. Get over it. It doesn't become you to try and defend the defunct regime. They are all gone now. And for a reason. They stunk.

A.) So you're going to judge a coach by the way he looks on the sideline? EVERY coach looks stupid on the sidelines! You've got to be kidding. B.) You say he was a terrible leader? Then you obviously weren't there for the KC game like I was when the Texans came onto the field after halftime fired up even though they were behind something like 31-7. You say THAT is the work of "a terrible terrible leader?" And why was everyone talking playoffs before the 2005 season? Like I said, nobody would be saying that if they thought the coach and the team were awful. Admit it. The guy took a team from its infancy with absolutely nothing to work with but NFL rejects and raw rookies to within a .500 season in just three years and improved the team every year. To say that he was "a terrible leader" is obviously untrue. And if you look at the Capers era, he CERTAINLY didn't "stink." He had one bad year -- just like Paul Brown, Holmgren and Cowher. Did they "stink" too? C.) Oh, I know they're gone. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a huge, huge mistake to fire Capers and that certainly doesn't mean compounding the mistake with Kubiak and his inexperience and spotty results as an assistant should be overlooked and ignored. You know you're in trouble when your team's head coach would improve his resume if he was a HC in Pop Warner football.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm giddy because I think the Texans will be the most improved team in the league next year. I think the offense will be much improved if for no other reason...they will not be as predictable as they were last year. The reason David Carr got sacked so much was because the offense was so predictable. The defense will still need some work but I think adding veteran leadership like Cowart will help.

Where do you get the idea that they will not be as predictable? As I recall, it wasn't like Kubiak pulled off a lot of surprises in Denver during his 11-year reign as an assistant coach. He ran the ball an awful lot -- just like Pendry and Palmer did. And Carr did NOT get sacked a lot because the offense was "predictable." He got sacked simply because the guys up front did not get the job done. As far as Cowart goes, he may not even start.

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 04:29 PM
A.) Tony Clifton? And isn't Andy Kaufman dead?

Andy Kaufman late in his career did intentionally awful stunts in a sort of odd comedy. Wrestling and saying ugly things to the home crowds. And duh yeah, he is dead.

During this late time in his career, Tony Clifton was his alter ego. He dressed up as this hideous insult comic that just bombed.

The wrestling Andy and Tony Clifton were so bad and ill-conceived they were funny in a truly strange, mad genius way.

If you need more wiki to connect. the. dots. on this, here you go: Link: Andy_Kaufman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Kaufman)

Sometimes you say things that are so bizarrely bad they are funny. I would put your Caper = Cowher, Brown & Holmgren stuff in that Clifton category.


B.) You say not to compare the three to Capers, then you go ahead and compare them. You many not realize it, but you've only buttressed my point even more by showing all three guys came back to accomplish great things after having awful seasons. Unfortunately, Capers was never given that chance in Houston

I am at a loss for words.

Perhaps Andy Kaufman is not dead.

http://www.offthemarkcartoons.com/cartoons/1995-04-14.gif

Bobo
05-16-2006, 04:44 PM
One good season, which SHOULD have led to a playoff season.

It didn't, and not only did it NOT get us even a sniff of the playoff hunt...it was also a defining season in terms of winning only two games which left no doubt that any successes in the past seasons were a result of our players somehow overcoming the coach's flawed system/philosophy.

Capers was never disliked as a person, but he did no favors to anybody by apparently (in my opinion) continuing to do things his way and not the way it should have been done per our team's players and their strengths.

Capers comes from the old school of coaching that says a coach is entirely the one who calls plays, etc., etc. And the players do it.

We're in a new era where players are gifted enough to be trusted on their instincts and their talent, and to even sometimes be given some creative license to script playcalling as the game occurs, and Carr never had a prayer (excuse the pun) of being allowed to do anything more than call the shots for a mere one half of the Arizona game. Nope. Capers had his sheet of plays, which consisted mostly of quick hitches and dump-off passes to the running back. Oh, and that snazzy "audible" that he allowed Carr to use...which was a very sad joke when you think about it. Sad.

And apparently the owner of this team, the consultant, and the new head coach all feel that Carr's playcalling in the Zona game was enough to show that the coach was flawed and the player(s) is NOT. Thus, it was time to transition this team into the hands of a vastly MORE successful offensive-minded coach who I promise will run circles around Capers' efforts.

Pardon me, but saying Capers had one good season is ridiculous. This guy began with nothing -- absolutely nothing. The only thing he had to work with were players that the other NFL teams basically didn't care enough to protect during the expansion draft and raw, green rookies. Using that, he took the team to four wins in 2002 and increased that to five in 2003 with basically the same group of NFL rejects and raw rookies. If you don't think those were good seasons for an expansion team, then you don't know much about the ins and outs of an expansion football team. As far as "getting a sniff" of the playoffs, did you honestly, REALLY believe that was going to happen when the Texans were actually only in the running for TWO wildcard positions since there was no way they were going to win their division? The only thing you can fault Capers on is having a very bad season last year. You can also fault Holmgren for that a few years back ... as well as Cowher and as well as Paul Brown. Now, if you're going to fire a coach for one bad season, then I guess you would have fired Holmgren, Cowher and Brown as well. Problem is, if you would have done that, then neither Holmgren nor Cowher would have been around for their SB runs and Brown would have never won his divisional title two years after his team went 3-11. As far as McNair goes, he isn't a football guy and he's said that on many occasions. That's why he brought in Reeves. And bringing in a former HC who obviously wouldn't mind being back in the saddle and asking him to evaluate a coach's job is really kind of silly. Oh, BTW. Gone are the days of QBs calling their own plays. That occurred a long, long time ago. They are allowed to audible and I do believe Carr audibled when he thought it was right to do so. So what's the beef?

Bobo
05-16-2006, 04:50 PM
Andy Kaufman late in his career did intentionally awful stunts in a sort of odd comedy. Wrestling and saying ugly things to the home crowds. And duh yeah, he is dead.

During this late time in his career, Tony Clifton was his alter ego. He dressed up as this hideous insult comic that just bombed.

Sometimes you say things that are so bizarrely bad they are funny. I would put your Caper = Cowher, Brown & Holmgren stuff in that Clifton category.

I am at a loss for words.



And I find the refusal to give Capers any credit at all for the excitement, intensity and fervor he brought back to Houston just as funny. Well, not funny. Kind of sad, actually. It's kind of sad that folks so quickly forget about how much excitement, fervor and intensity Capers brought to this town. He has one bad season, and it's like the other three didn't exist. Short memories and revisionist history seem to be par for the course for many fans in Houston. Pardon me, but the comparison to Brown, Holmgren and Cowher is very, very legit. Your failure to speak to that point is duly noted.

MightyTExan
05-16-2006, 04:59 PM
I have no knock against Caper's as a person but did Brown, Holmgren and Cowher use predictable plays all the time? Run,run,pass. Run,run, sack.Run, run, audible to a run. Everyone- the opposing teams, the fans, the analysts knew the same plays we were going to run.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:01 PM
I think Tony Clifton was the unfunny alter ego of Andy Kaufman...Capers was given four years and that is enough for any coach.

Four years to do what? Win the SB? Get into the playoffs? When he started with absolutely NOTHING? I find it somewhat incredulous that many folks think that being the coach of an expansion team starting its first year is the same as coaching any other established team. To believe that is to have absolutely no knowledge of what it takes to put a team together from nothing. It took the Saints 20 years to finally put together a winning season. And there was a reason for that. It's because it is very, very hard to build up a team from scratch. It's different than someone like, say, Marvin Lewis taking over for the Bengals. He already had his infrastructure in place, his scouting system set up, etc. etc. In other words, he had something to work with. When Capers came in, he had NOTHING to work with! There was nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- that was there from the previous season. Bottom line: What Capers did over four years from scratch was fantastic. He deserved another shot due to his previous accomplishments and didn't get it -- something Capers, Holmgren and Brown did get. Instead, they bring in a guy who has never been head coach of anything -- possibly not even a Pop Warner team. Pardon me for shaking my head in disdain and saying, "Tsk, tsk." Something simply is not right.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:03 PM
I have no knock against Caper's as a person but did Brown, Holmgren and Cowher use predictable plays all the time? Run,run,pass. Run,run, sack.Run, run, audible to a run. Everyone- the opposing teams, the fans, the analysts knew the same plays we were going to run.

Umm, running the ball is the way teams are going nowadays. So you'd better get used to it. I have a feeling that Kubiak is going to do it even more than you'd expect. Remember, both Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell gained 1,000 yards last year. And you don't do that by passing the ball.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:09 PM
Inexperience? Jerry Glanville has experience...maybe we could hire him and that would 'allow' us to be giddy?

Let's see - Dunta, AJ, and Davis had NO experience in the NFL but we drafted them. Bob McNair had NO experience as an NFL owner but he bought a team. For goodness sakes, most of the cheerleaders had NO experience dancing with fakes b00bs but they learned!! :)

Do you know what Jimmy Johnson, Bill Belicheck, Bill Parcells, and Vince Lombardi have in common? At one time, they were ALL inexperienced...




A.) You miss the point. There was no reason to hire anybody in the first place. B.) You might want to compare apples and apples rather than apples and oranges. Your rookie players/cheerleaders vs. rookie coaches analogy is apples to oranges. Oh, I suppose you wouldn't mind if a guy who never operated on anybody made his first incision on you when you went into surgery. After all, somebody has to be the first guy -- right?

mexican_texan
05-16-2006, 05:16 PM
Four years to do what? Win the SB? Get into the playoffs? When he started with absolutely NOTHING? I find it somewhat incredulous that many folks think that being the coach of an expansion team starting its first year is the same as coaching any other established team. To believe that is to have absolutely no knowledge of what it takes to put a team together from nothing. It took the Saints 20 years to finally put together a winning season. And there was a reason for that. It's because it is very, very hard to build up a team from scratch. It's different than someone like, say, Marvin Lewis taking over for the Bengals. He already had his infrastructure in place, his scouting system set up, etc. etc. In other words, he had something to work with. When Capers came in, he had NOTHING to work with! There was nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- that was there from the previous season. Bottom line: What Capers did over four years from scratch was fantastic. He deserved another shot due to his previous accomplishments and didn't get it -- something Capers, Holmgren and Brown did get. Instead, they bring in a guy who has never been head coach of anything -- possibly not even a Pop Warner team. Pardon me for shaking my head in disdain and saying, "Tsk, tsk." Something simply is not right.

2-14 in the year we were expected to make the playoffs. By the fourth year, Capers should not have had to deal with a first overall pick.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:25 PM
Wrong, wrong and wrong.... again. Capers had them improving until mid-way thru 2004. If you recall, they were horrible in the second half of 2004. The team gave up on Capers' and this is well documented with player statements from that stretch. That simply carried over to 2005. If Capers and his jokers were kept around for 2006 they probably wouldn't win a single game. Capers will never be a head coach in the NFL again because antiquated style does not translate to today's NFL players.

I think that the players are genuinely excited about having Kubiak onboard. They are finally going to run actual NFL schemes and play to win. They might even blow a few teams out this year.

"The team gave up on Capers mid-way through 2004?" Hmm, let's check that out, shall we?

| 10 | at Indianapolis Colts | L | 14-49 |
| 11 | Green Bay Packers | L | 13-16 |
| 12 | Tennessee Titans | W | 31-21 |
| 13 | at New York Jets | L | 7-29 |
| 14 | Indianapolis Colts | L | 14-23 |
| 15 | at Chicago Bears | W | 24- 5 |
| 16 | at Jacksonville Jaguars | W | 21- 0 |
| 17 | Cleveland Browns | L | 14-22 |

Hmm. Seems to me they went 3-5 in the last eight games of 2004, including two losses to Indy and a real close one to GB on that Sunday night game. And seems to me that during that stretch where "the team gave up on him," Capers took them to two road wins near the end of said season -- one against Jax -- and in those two weeks the defense allowed a grand total of five points. Yep. They gave up on him. Right. I'd like to see the "documentation" you were talking about because the record certainly doesn't indicate that. This seems like just more revisionism that simply isn't backed up by the facts. As for you saying that if Capers was kept on the Texans probably wouldn't win a single game, I imagine you would have said that about Paul Brown when he went 3-11 with the expansion Bengals in Year 3. Thing is, the next year they went 8-6. And the next year they won the division. As far as the players being excited about Kubiak, heck, the players are simply excited about the beginning of the season. I don't care if Phyllis Diller was coaching them -- they'd be up for 2006. After all, what do you expect them to say? "Well, to be honest, I have real reservations about playing for a guy who has never even been head coach of a Pop Warner team." Do you expect them to say that? The only time you'd hear that would be after the guy's gone. Then they'd say all kinds of things about them. It's not good for job security or team morale for a player to say bad things about his coach. Not even Terrell Owens ventured much into that area.

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 05:25 PM
And I find the refusal to give Capers any credit at all for the excitement, intensity and fervor he brought back to Houston just as funny. Well, not funny. Kind of sad, really. It's kind of sad that folks so quickly forget about how much excitement, fervor and intensity Capers brought to this town. He has one bad season, and it's like the other three didn't exist. Pardon me, but the comparison to Brown, Holmgren and Cowher is very, very legit. Your failure to speak to that point is duly noted.

Really, you can't be earnestly saying this stuff.

1. Having the NFL back in Houston is exciting. Capers brand of football was, well, non-exciting. There were some moments of good, but there was little to suggest over the last season and a half that we were fixing to turn the corner. It fact, it got down right ugly--uglier than even the first season. Not just losing, but losing in baffoon-like ways.

2. Hall of fame coaches do not equal non-hall of fame coaches.
Hall of fame coaches get to have a few bad seasons. Non-hall of fame coaches do not.

I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly without invoking:

http://evula.org/dragoon/pics/captain.obvious.jpg

amazingandre
05-16-2006, 05:32 PM
BOBO do you even like the Texans? or do you only like the cheerleaders? Honestly.....everyone on this board knows Capers was the worst coach ever!!!!!!!! You know it's cool to argue, but not when the WORLD is against you!!!!!!!!!:shoot:<<<<<<<< That is all you right there. Stop writing stupidity and take a lok at the stats. Don't try to compare Capers to Homlgren or the other coaches. I'm from wiscosnin and Capers isn't close to Homlgren. And sorry to say, but after Homlgren left the players sucked!!!!! Look at Favre he is getting worse and worse every year. The receivers they had gone!!!!!!!!! Holmgren was actually a GREAT coach I hope Kubiak can do as good as Homlgren. Take a newer team and take them to the top within a few years!:homer:

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:32 PM
2-14 in the year we were expected to make the playoffs. By the fourth year, Capers should not have had to deal with a first overall pick.

And why, pray tell, were the Texans expected to make the playoffs in the first place? First of all, I didn't expect them to make the playoffs. And most everybody else didn't think they'd make the playoffs. Why did YOU expect them to make it? Could it have been that the team had shown enough in previous seasons to make you believe that? If that is true, would you have to then say that perhaps Capers really wasn't so bad of a coach if his team's performance caused you to think the team had a chance for the post season? Or did you think that the team and Capers always stunk but for some reason thought they would completely turn it around and make the playoffs last year without any reason to think that?

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:39 PM
BOBO do you even like the Texans? or do you only like the cheerleaders? Honestly.....everyone on this board knows Capers was the worst coach ever!!!!!!!! You know it's cool to argue, but not when the WORLD is against you!!!!!!!!!:shoot:<<<<<<<< That is all you right there. Stop writing stupidity and take a lok at the stats. Don't try to compare Capers to Homlgren or the other coaches. I'm from wiscosnin and Capers isn't close to Homlgren. And sorry to say, but after Homlgren left the players sucked!!!!! Look at Favre he is getting worse and worse every year. The receivers they had gone!!!!!!!!! Holmgren was actually a GREAT coach I hope Kubiak can do as good as Homlgren. Take a newer team and take them to the top within a few years!:homer:

The facts fail to back up your statement about Capers. I seriously doubt that you were saying that Capers was "the worst coach ever" when he beat both the Bears and the Jags on the road in 2004 where the team gave up a grand total of five points in those two weeks. And I seriously doubt that you were saying he was "the worst coach ever" when he took his team to the cusp of a .500 season in just three years. Holmgren went to Seattle and took his team to a 6-10 record. That's one game worse than Capers did in 2004. Holmgren was kept on and he went to the SB. Brown was kept on after going 3-11 and two years later won his division. Capers never got that chance and there is no way we'll ever know what he could have done if given another chance. Instead, they bring in a guy who has never been a head coach on any major level -- maybe not even Pop Warner -- and who even has a sketchy record as an assistant coach in non-Elway years. Oh, yeah, the guy was great with Elway. Seeing that he was a top prospect to start with, that's not saying much. But how did he do with guys like Brian Griese? Bad move.

amazingandre
05-16-2006, 05:42 PM
Because these coahces had one maybe 2 basd years then they went to the sb or won the division capers went 7-9 to 2-14 are you dumb think about what you are saying!!!! you dont make any sense....do you have tickets to any of the games this year out of curiousity???? cuz id like them since you obviously aren't a real texans fan!!!!!!!!!:spy:

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:46 PM
Because these coahces had one maybe 2 basd years then they went to the sb or won the division capers went 7-9 to 2-14 are you dumb think about what you are saying!!!! you dont make any sense....do you have tickets to any of the games this year out of curiousity???? cuz id like them since you obviously aren't a real texans fan!!!!!!!!!:spy:

Um, Cowher went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. Capers never regressed that much. Now, tell me who "doesn't make any sense." And yes, I do have season tix to the games this year. If you want some tix -- then try buying them yourself.

Texansbacker
05-16-2006, 05:51 PM
Andy, nice photos as always. BIG UPS!

A few thoughts about the pics.

1. Mathis' hands look OK from afar. (not bandaged)

2. Nice seeing Bennie catching a pass.

3. Kubiak and Sherman are both wearing long sleeve shirts outside????? Got a little cold front through, but nothing worthy of long sleeves. They must be keeping the offices mighty cold and they just didn't think to change out of them.

4. HURRAY FOR FOOTBALL!!!!

That is funny because I was laughing at seeing Kubiak wearing a sweatshirt in May and thinking he must be having a flashback to Denver. I bet Kubiak doesn't remember how Hot it gets in Houston.....he might say he does but until he hits the field....he is not a kid anymore after all. :)

What is the latest on Bennie Joppru? He would be a nice surprise for the new coaches.....hopefully equal to how disappointing he was for the ex-coaches/gm.

SnakeOilTanker
05-16-2006, 05:53 PM
Carr had diffrent look in his eys to me...maybe it was just the sun i dunno lol

but he is holding the ball lower in this dropback, which is what i assumer Kubes wants him to.

Remeber when he first came in he had that thing glued to his ear

amazingandre
05-16-2006, 05:56 PM
lol ya that was funny looking I bet it will make an impact on how he throws too. Our qb in high school use to hold it high, then he dropped it and the ball seemed to release a lot easier and smoother. I dont know whatever works right?

Bobo
05-16-2006, 05:59 PM
Really, you can't be earnestly saying this stuff.

1. Having the NFL back in Houston is exciting. Capers brand of football was, well, non-exciting. There were some moments of good, but there was little to suggest over the last season and a half that we were fixing to turn the corner. It fact, it got down right ugly--uglier than even the first season. Not just losing, but losing in baffoon-like ways.

2. Hall of fame coaches do not equal non-hall of fame coaches.
Hall of fame coaches get to have a few bad seasons. Non-hall of fame coaches do not.

I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly

I guess you were never at the games then because, as I recall when I was there from 2002-4, the fans were so excited about this team that they caused repeated false starts for the opposition. You should take a good look at the second half of 2004. That team beat both the Bears and Jax on the road and allowed a total of just five points in those two games that occurred just before the last game of the season. As for Hall of Fame coaches, I don't recall Holmgren or Cowher in the Hall yet. And the reason those guys may eventually get into the Hall is, guess what? When they DID have bad seasons, their teams kept them on and they got to the SB! Let's make this real clear. Holmgren, 6-10. His team kept him on, he got to the SB. Cowher, goes from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. His team kept him on and he got to the Super Bowl. Paul Brown, goes from 8-6 to 3-11. The Bengals keep him on and in two years, his team wins the division. Capers regresses five games and ... oops! The team gets rid of him. Hmm. What's wrong with this picture? I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly.

dalemurphy
05-16-2006, 06:15 PM
I guess you were never at the games then because, as I recall when I was there from 2002-4, the fans were so excited about this team that they caused repeated false starts for the opposition. You should take a good look at the second half of 2004. That team beat both the Bears and Jax on the road and allowed a total of just five points in those two games that occurred just before the last game of the season. As for Hall of Fame coaches, I don't recall Holmgren or Cowher in the Hall yet. And the reason those guys may eventually get into the Hall is, guess what? When they DID have bad seasons, their teams kept them on and they got to the SB! Let's make this real clear. Holmgren, 6-10. His team kept him on, he got to the SB. Cowher, goes from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. His team kept him on and he got to the Super Bowl. Paul Brown, goes from 8-6 to 3-11. The Bengals keep him on and in two years, his team wins the division. Capers regresses five games and ... oops! The team gets rid of him. Hmm. What's wrong with this picture? I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly.

Bobo, come on! I was one of the biggest defenders of Capers. I respect him a great deal as a person. Also, I think he's an excellent defensive mind. However, he did lose this team. Good coach or bad, a change had to be made after last year's disaster. It was his decision to remove Palmer and bring in Pendry. Clearly that was one of the worst decisions I've seen in the NFL the past 10 years. Every effort Capers made to improve our average offense of 2004 helped create one of the worst offenses I've ever seen in 2005. Capers also clearly had lost a handle on personnel. He continued, inexplicably, to start Corey Bradford. Also, he supported giving Victor Riley the starting LT spot and sending Seth Wand to the deep bench. Also, he supported getting rid of Glenn and Sharper.

The problem isn't that we won less last year. The problem is that we were a young team that wasn't in any cap trouble, yet we went from an average football teams to one of the 2 or 3 worst teams of the decade. Horrible on offense and horrible on defense and it wasn't due to a rash of injuries, losses in free angency, cap hell, or any other excuse that one can find.

Texansbacker
05-16-2006, 06:17 PM
I guess you were never at the games then because, as I recall when I was there from 2002-4, the fans were so excited about this team that they caused repeated false starts for the opposition. You should take a good look at the second half of 2004. That team beat both the Bears and Jax on the road and allowed a total of just five points in those two games that occurred just before the last game of the season. As for Hall of Fame coaches, I don't recall Holmgren or Cowher in the Hall yet. And the reason those guys may eventually get into the Hall is, guess what? When they DID have bad seasons, their teams kept them on and they got to the SB! Let's make this real clear. Holmgren, 6-10. His team kept him on, he got to the SB. Cowher, goes from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. His team kept him on and he got to the Super Bowl. Paul Brown, goes from 8-6 to 3-11. The Bengals keep him on and in two years, his team wins the division. Capers regresses five games and ... oops! The team gets rid of him. Hmm. What's wrong with this picture? I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly.


Coach Capers coached a win against the Cowboys for the franchise first win. He did a great job and is to be commended for it. Thank you Coach Capers!

Dom Capers also lost control of his team in 2005 to go 2-14 and really there was no real hope they could win a game. Not a fun year to be a Texan fan. Believe me I are one.

McNair could have stuck with Casserly and Capers but he didn't like what he was seeing and knew what he would get. Nothing wrong with Capers style as it will win you some ballgames but he clearly lost control and the owner and many fans, myself included, thought it would be a nice change and so far it has been.

I wish Coach Capers all the luck in the world and think he will do an awesome job as Miami's D Coordinator.

Time to give Houston native, proven winner, former NFL quarterback who worked with Elway to inspire and excite a football team and a town!

Welcome to town, Coach Kubiak, and all the Best!

Looking good to me!!

Bobo
05-16-2006, 06:27 PM
Bobo, come on! I was one of the biggest defenders of Capers. I respect him a great deal as a person. Also, I think he's an excellent defensive mind. However, he did lose this team. Good coach or bad, a change had to be made after last year's disaster. It was his decision to remove Palmer and bring in Pendry. Clearly that was one of the worst decisions I've seen in the NFL the past 10 years. Every effort Capers made to improve our average offense of 2004 helped create one of the worst offenses I've ever seen in 2005. Capers also clearly had lost a handle on personnel. He continued, inexplicably, to start Corey Bradford. Also, he supported giving Victor Riley the starting LT spot and sending Seth Wand to the deep bench. Also, he supported getting rid of Glenn and Sharper.

The problem isn't that we won less last year. The problem is that we were a young team that wasn't in any cap trouble, yet we went from an average football teams to one of the 2 or 3 worst teams of the decade. Horrible on offense and horrible on defense and it wasn't due to a rash of injuries, losses in free angency, cap hell, or any other excuse that one can find.

The old song and dance about Capers being a good guy is irrelevant. We are talking about him as a coach and as I have pointed out, the record shows he was a very good coach from 2002-4 and took the team far with very little to work with due to the expansion situation. Again, you must not have been at the KC game because you would have never said that he "lost the team" if you saw how that team came out fired and stoked up after halftime where they were losing 31-7. So that stuff about "losing the team" is just a song and dance :bananasplit: that may fit some situations but definitely NOT this one because I saw how Capers kept this team together for myself, despite a horrible down year. Your statement about "clearly a change had to be made" doesn't hold any water either, seeing that Paul Brown's expansion Bengals went from 8-6 to 3-11 in one year -- the same kind of regression Capers experienced -- only Paul Brown stayed on and took his team to the divisional title in two years. Of course, we could also talk about Cowher's seven-game regression in two years and Holmgren's 6-10 record and what happened to them. Oh, I admit the Texans were bad last year. But don't you recall how bad the Steelers were when they went 6-10? Heck, the Texans actually beat them -- in Pitt -- that year. And Cowher had much, much more to work with and a much better infrastructure at that point. But like I have said, they kept Cowher on and fired Capers. Cowher went on to win the SB. Who knows what Capers would have done. And now the Texans have the inexperienced Kubiak who has never been a HC in his life instead of a guy who took a team from nothing to within a game of .500 in just three years. Pardon me, but I'd much rather have a coach like Capers who has actually done something with this team and experienced one bad year than a green guy like Kubiak. Capers wasn't given the chance to right the ship like so many other coaches have been given and I think that was a shame and a disservice to Capers.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 06:40 PM
Coach Capers coached a win against the Cowboys for the franchise first win. He did a great job and is to be commended for it. Thank you Coach Capers!

Dom Capers also lost control of his team in 2005 to go 2-14 and really there was no real hope they could win a game. Not a fun year to be a Texan fan. Believe me I are one.

McNair could have stuck with Casserly and Capers but he didn't like what he was seeing and knew what he would get. Nothing wrong with Capers style as it will win you some ballgames but he clearly lost control and the owner and many fans, myself included, thought it would be a nice change and so far it has been.

I wish Coach Capers all the luck in the world and think he will do an awesome job as Miami's D Coordinator.

Time to give Houston native, proven winner, former NFL quarterback who worked with Elway to inspire and excite a football team and a town!

Welcome to town, Coach Kubiak, and all the Best!

Looking good to me!!

I don't know where you get this about "Capers losing control" of the team. That's something folks love to say when a coach has a bad year. It's like a little ritualistic statement said anytime a coach has a bad year -- even if it doesn't fit. Well, like I said. I was there when that team was behind 31-7 at halftime vs. KC last year. When the Texans came on the field for the second half, they were all fired up and came out there really excited. That's not how a team acts when the coach has "lost control." So pardon me if I say this stuff about "losing control of the team" just doesn't fit this situation. McNair is a nice old fellow and I appreciate him bringing the NFL back to Houston. But even he would admit he isn't a real football guy. If he was, he wouldn't have brought in Reeves to make recommendations. Of course, that whole process was flawed since you had a guy who admitted he wouldn't mind coaching again evaluating a coach's job performance. Yeah, like he'd say, "Capers is doing fine, it's the players. Give Capers another shot." As far as Kubiak goes, there are a lot of guys from Houston around. That doesn't make them qualified to coach in the NFL. Heck, the guy doesn't even have an NFL tie to Houston like Wade Phillips. Kubiak was an assistant coach in Denver for 11 years -- I don't see an NFL tie there at all. And there were lots of times during those years where as an assistant, Kubiak wasn't all that great. Sure, he won with Elway. Boy, that must have been tough. The one thing about Kubiak you can say is that at least he didn't screw it up. But what did he do with Brian Griese? How many SBs was he in after Elway left? So pardon me if I don't come to the Welcome Wagon party for Kubiak. I don't see him nearly as qualified as the guy that was run out on a rail.

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 06:50 PM
I guess you were never at the games then because, as I recall when I was there from 2002-4, the fans were so excited about this team that they caused repeated false starts for the opposition. You should take a good look at the second half of 2004. That team beat both the Bears and Jax on the road and allowed a total of just five points in those two games that occurred just before the last game of the season. As for Hall of Fame coaches, I don't recall Holmgren or Cowher in the Hall yet. And the reason those guys may eventually get into the Hall is, guess what? When they DID have bad seasons, their teams kept them on and they got to the SB! Let's make this real clear. Holmgren, 6-10. His team kept him on, he got to the SB. Cowher, goes from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. His team kept him on and he got to the Super Bowl. Paul Brown, goes from 8-6 to 3-11. The Bengals keep him on and in two years, his team wins the division. Capers regresses five games and ... oops! The team gets rid of him. Hmm. What's wrong with this picture? I don't know how I could explain this any more clearly.

In the ESPN/talk radio era, you can't be a coach of a 2-14 team without a long standing winning track record and keep your job. You just can't.

Dom Capers has had one over .500 season as a head coach.

Holmgren has had 12 over .500 seasons as a head coach.

Cowhers has had 11 over .500 seasons as a head coach.

Yes, it is hard to coach an expansion team, much less two, but Holmgren and Cowhers had enough stored good will to demonstrate that they knew what they were doing. They never had a season nearly as bad as the Texans' last season. Maybe if Capers had Holmgren type credentials, he could stay, but most anyone with Holmgren type credentials wouldn't be interested in coaching the Texans unless they had a connection to the city.

At least you can admit that from a marketing standpoint, it is not tenable to keep a coach with a really ugly 2-14 season and who has never had Hall of Famish type success.

(BTW, you never answered my question. Are you Dom Caper's wife?)

Texans_Chick
05-16-2006, 06:53 PM
I was there when that team was behind 31-7 at halftime vs. KC last year. When the Texans came on the field for the second half, they were all fired up and came out there really excited. That's not how a team acts when the coach has "lost control."


More unintentional humor, unless it is of the Tony Clifton sort.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 06:56 PM
More unintentional humor, unless it is of the Tony Clifton sort.

Umm, the way you measure if someone has "lost control" of a team is how it reacts to adversity. The fact that the team was still fired up when so far behind is not an example of "unintended humor" but a very real example of a coach who could keep his team fired up despite the adverse situation. Hopefully that's a little more clear to you now.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 07:12 PM
In the ESPN/talk radio era, you can't be a coach of a 2-14 team without a long standing winning track record and keep your job. You just can't.

Dom Capers has had one over .500 season as a head coach.

Holmgren has had 12 over .500 seasons as a head coach.

Cowhers has had 11 over .500 seasons as a head coach.

Yes, it is hard to coach an expansion team, much less two, but Holmgren and Cowhers had enough stored good will to demonstrate that they knew what they were doing. They never had a season nearly as bad as the Texans' last season. Maybe if Capers had Holmgren type credentials, he could stay, but most anyone with Holmgren type credentials wouldn't be interested in coaching the Texans unless they had a connection to the city.

At least you can admit that from a marketing standpoint, it is not tenable to keep a coach with a really ugly 2-14 season and who has never had Hall of Famish type success.

(BTW, you never answered my question. Are you Dom Caper's wife?)

You seem to be saying that just because ESPN is around that a coach can't have a bad season and survive unless he's had a winning season. That, as you know, flies in the face of actual NFL history -- and it also contradicts the fact that the Texans hired him in the first place with only one winning season to his credit. Apparently the Texans realized that he had made some accomplishments previously with Carolina, even though he only had one winning season with them. Talking heads don't dictate proper football decisions -- surely you realize this following the Williams/Bush saga. And it seems to me that if a coach had a winning team and then all of a sudden it became a loser, then it would be even worse. For example, when Cowher dropped from 13-3 to 6-10 in just two years, that would have shown that the team had regressed a lot further than Capers team did, seeing that the Steelers had fallen from a big winner to sorrowful loser on his watch. But despite the huge, huge regression, they kept him on and we know what happened from there. Capers didn't get the Texans to nearly the same record as Cowher did his team for the reasons you stated earlier (expansion roots) but his team didn't fall off nearly to the point that Cowher's did. Yet Cowher kept his job and Capers didn't. As far as marketing goes, isn't that the same argument a lot of folks were using to draft Bush? I guess that way of thinking didn't rule the day, either. As far as being a Capers relative, I'm just as much a Capers relation as I am part of the Paul Brown family, part of the Cowher kin and part of the Holmgren ilk. I simply believe that Capers should have received the same courtesy and opportunity to turn it around as other coaches have, especially after what he did for this team in his first three years -- accomplishments that in some corners of Houston fandom have been the victim of either faded memories or historical revisionism. And instead of giving Capers a chance to accomplish what the three other coaches did, they brought in a guy who has absolutely no experience as a head coach on any major level and struggled when John Elway had left the building.

MightyTExan
05-16-2006, 07:14 PM
Brings a tear to me eye..........
http://www.texansbullpen.com/06photogallery/Preseason/2006-05-16-PlayerPractice/Photos/DSC_0113.JPG
Coaches that know how to win in Texans gear.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 07:18 PM
Coaches that know how to win in Texans gear.

A.) Neither of these coaches have won a single game "in Texans gear." B.) One has never won ANY game in the NFL in ANY gear as a head coach and the other was fired last year because he didn't win ENOUGH games in GB gear. C.) Yeah, you're right. It brings a tear to my eye, too.

MightyTExan
05-16-2006, 07:18 PM
Umm, running the ball is the way teams are going nowadays. So you'd better get used to it. I have a feeling that Kubiak is going to do it even more than you'd expect. Remember, both Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell gained 1,000 yards last year. And you don't do that by passing the ball.

I have no problem with that, just mix it up a bit.

bayoudreamn
05-16-2006, 07:47 PM
I'm trying to find Capers good seasons. Can anyone tell me where they are? I thought you had to have a "winning" record to call that a "good" season. Maybe one might say Capers Texans were improving over the first three seasons....but winning?

I figure it'll take us the better part of a decade to possibly reverse the losing percentage.....assuming that we are .500 or better every year.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 07:54 PM
I'm trying to find Capers good seasons. Can anyone tell me where they are? I thought you had to have a "winning" record to call that a "good" season. Maybe one might say Capers Texans were improving over the first three seasons....but winning?

I figure it'll take us the better part of a decade to possibly reverse the losing percentage.....assuming that we are .500 or better every year.

Umm, do you REALLY mean to tell me that you believe you have to have a winning record to have a "good season" -- even if it's your team's very first year of existence? You do know, don't you, that NO expansion team has ever had a winning record in their first season?

thunderkyss
05-16-2006, 07:55 PM
I have no knock against Caper's as a person but did Brown, Holmgren and Cowher use predictable plays all the time? Run,run,pass. Run,run, sack.Run, run, audible to a run. Everyone- the opposing teams, the fans, the analysts knew the same plays we were going to run.

Is that what we did in '02?? '03?? I don't remember.... I don't recall. I also don't remember ever pass play being a hitch.....

Bobo
05-16-2006, 07:59 PM
I have no problem with that, just mix it up a bit.

Problem is, when the Texans tried to throw the opposition was always on top of Carr and had him on the run. Therefore the attempted pass play often became a running play -- or else a sack. Thus, to protect the QB from getting sacked, they often ran the ball when possible. I don't think it was a question of them not trying to mix it up. They were trying to go to their strength. And like I said, don't be surprised if Kubiak runs the ball just as much as Capers did -- if not more. After all, Anderson and Bell didn't gain 1,000 yards apiece by Plummer throwing the ball.

MightyTExan
05-16-2006, 08:02 PM
A.) Neither of these coaches have won a single game "in Texans gear.
They should win a few.

B.) One has never won ANY game in the NFL in ANY gear as a head coach
He has been a coach on a winning team, I didn't specify head coach.
the other was fired last year because he didn't win ENOUGH games in GB.
Better than what we had before, I'm stoked for the season.


Proven coaches that have been on winning teams in the NFL. It's cool that we have that for our team in Houston,

Bobo
05-16-2006, 08:24 PM
A.) Neither of these coaches have won a single game "in Texans gear.
They should win a few.

B.) One has never won ANY game in the NFL in ANY gear as a head coach
He has been a coach on a winning team, I didn't specify head coach.
the other was fired last year because he didn't win ENOUGH games in GB.
Better than what we had before, I'm stoked for the season.


Proven coaches that have been on winning teams in the NFL. It's cool that we have that for our team in Houston,

Umm, it's a real stretch to call these folks "proven" winners.

Honoring Earl 34
05-16-2006, 08:24 PM
A good head coach would not tolerate the Fangio / Pendry show . Dom was a great guy and a good coach but his judgement on players and coaches was poor . :hunter:

Bobo
05-16-2006, 08:41 PM
A good head coach would not tolerate the Fangio / Pendry show . Dom was a great guy and a good coach but his judgement on players and coaches was poor . :hunter:

I remember how there were so many complaints about Palmer and how everybody wanted him fired. I said, "Uh, you know, things aren't going to get any better with Pendry. He's just as conservative." Response: "That's a lot of bull! Fire him! Pendry will be better!" Well, guess what. They fired Palmer. Pendry wasn't any better. So what was the refrain? "Fire him! Fire him!" Hmm, come to think of it, they fired Capers. Wonder if history will repeat itself? You know, I get kind of tired of people constantly yelling for people's scalps. It gets very boring and so, so predictable. In addition, I have learned that what goes around, comes around. So all you folks who have been yelling about firing people without giving them chances to turn things around, make sure your resumes are polished up because, somehow, and I don't know how, the truth of "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" has a strange way of coming to pass.

Honoring Earl 34
05-16-2006, 08:57 PM
I remember how there were so many complaints about Palmer and how everybody wanted him fired. I said, "Uh, you know, things aren't going to get any better with Pendry. He's just as conservative." Response: "That's a lot of bull! Fire him! Pendry will be better!" Well, guess what. They fired Palmer. Pendry wasn't any better. So what was the refrain? "Fire him! Fire him!" You know, I get kind of tired of people constantly yelling for people's scalps. It gets very boring and so, so predictable. In addition, have learned that what goes around, comes around. So all you folks who have been yelling about firing people without giving them chances to turn things around, make sure your resumes are polished up because, somehow, and I don't know how, the truth of "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" has a strange way of coming to pass. Hmm, come to think of it, they fired Capers. Wonder if history will repeat itself?
Dude , I hope to reap tomatoes to make salsa . :drool: A coach's most important decision is who he hires . Bad coaching and wasted draft choices are why we are where we are . I just hope Kubiak and his coaches can take what talent we have and put an enjoyable product on the field .

Bobo
05-16-2006, 09:01 PM
Dude , I hope to reap tomatoes to make salsa . :drool: A coach's most important decision is who he hires . Bad coaching and wasted draft choices are why we are where we are . I just hope Kubiak and his coaches can take what talent we have and put an enjoyable product on the field .

A.) The assistant coaches seemed to do just fine their first three years. Don't tell me -- they all got hit with a stupid stick in year four. B.) I wouldn't say Carr, Davis, D-Rob and AJ were wasted draft choices, would you? C.) Kubiak's assistants all have very little experience as well. Their biggest reason for getting their jobs in the first place is that they are buds of Kubiak. So it should be interesting to see if you are still sounding the "A coach's most important decision is who he hires" refrain a few months from now.

kiwitexansfan
05-16-2006, 09:07 PM
A.) The assistant coaches seemed to do just fine their first three years. Don't tell me -- they all got hit with a stupid stick in year four. B.) I wouldn't say Carr, Davis, D-Rob and AJ were wasted draft choices, would you? C.) Kubiak's assistants all have very little experience as well. Their biggest reason for getting their jobs in the first place is that they are buds of Kubiak. So it should be interesting to see if you are still sounding the "A coach's most important decision is who he hires" refrain a few months from now.

I think we have to give the chance to grow together. The first season will have its bumps but as I have stated in other threads I hope that we are seeing a coaching group that will be here for a while and really grow into something special.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 09:10 PM
I think we have to give the chance to grow together. The first season will have its bumps but as I have stated in other threads I hope that we are seeing a coaching group that will be here for a while and really grow into something special.

Sounds like you're already making excuses in preparation for a letdown. If they fail, do you think it's possible they might have fallen short because they were just as inexperienced as their boss?

Honoring Earl 34
05-16-2006, 10:05 PM
When did anybody do fine . The first year was tolerable , second year was baby steps in the right direction and then theres year three , 7-9 with several inexcusable blowouts and a loss to the lowly Browns to end the season.

As far as the young talent goes ... theirs no excuse why our young players have'nt been developed . The fact is the Texans have had a bunch of high picks and as of right now their severly underperforming , thats coaching .

Bobo
05-16-2006, 10:18 PM
When did anybody do fine . The first year was tolerable , second year was baby steps in the right direction and then theres year three , 7-9 with several inexcusable blowouts and a loss to the lowly Browns to end the season.

As far as the young talent goes ... theirs no excuse why our young players have'nt been developed . The fact is the Texans have had a bunch of high picks and as of right now their severly underperforming , thats coaching .

Hmm. As I recall, road wins vs. Jax and the Bears where the team allowed a total of five points were indeed blowouts -- in their favor as well. And that Sunday night game at Reliant vs. the Pack wasn't exactly a blowout either. Seems to me just another case of a selective memory manifesting itself.

vtech9
05-16-2006, 10:29 PM
I have a question for you Bobo...

If Kubiak leads the Texans to a WINNING season this year, would that make him a better coach than Capers, in your eyes? What would your opinion of Capers be if the Texans make it to the playoffs this year?

Most everyone was happy with the Texans improvement for the first 3 years. That doesn't mean that they didn't think the Texans should have been better. The Texans had several games that they should have won, but Capers conservative game plan let the other teams pull off the win. One big example of that was the game against the Patriots in year 2 that went into overtime. Another was the game against the Rams, this past season, when a 3rd string, Ivy league, rookie QB, led the Rams back to a victory. Those games were frustrating, and IMHO, a good coach would not have let them slip away.

vtech9
05-16-2006, 10:35 PM
Hmm. As I recall, road wins vs. Jax and the Bears where the team allowed a total of five points were indeed blowouts -- in their favor as well. And that Sunday night game at Reliant vs. the Pack wasn't exactly a blowout either. Seems to me just another case of a selective memory manifesting itself.
That Packers game is another one that I was alluding to. The Texans should have won that game, but instead let GB hang around and win.:brickwall

Honoring Earl 34
05-16-2006, 10:35 PM
Why don't you recall the 2004 season when the Broncos beat us 31-13 followed by a 41- 14 whoopin by the Colts and a 29-7 butt kickin by the Jets . Then you go out and lose to Cleveland .

Micro managing only last so long then you better hope your guys can play . Capers was a defensive genuis who's style was to rush the QB yet our all-time sack leader has 8 sacks .

I look forward to the future and say good riddance to the past . I liked the Mario pick along with Ryans , Spencer and Winston . We did'nt make dumb trades for project DE/LBs or outcast CBs , we just picked good football players who can control the line of scrimmage .

Texansbacker
05-16-2006, 10:48 PM
Umm, the way you measure if someone has "lost control" of a team is how it reacts to adversity. The fact that the team was still fired up when so far behind is not an example of "unintended humor" but a very real example of a coach who could keep his team fired up despite the adverse situation. Hopefully that's a little more clear to you now.

Rah Rah Ree! Kick 'em in the knee!
Rah Rah Ras! Kick 'em in the other knee!

You go Bobo!

Great argument that the team was fired up last year in the thumping that KC put on the Texans last year 45-17. I can do without that again, fired up or not! :)

Your other argument on Dan Reeves, that he was hired to give an opinion and Reeves said to run Capers out on a rail and hire Kubiak. Excellent argument.

Rah Rah

Sometimes you have to belly up to the bar Bobo and sometimes you get a second chance. Capers didn't get a second chance in Houston but he might somewhere else and you can follow him there while the Texans fans root for the success of Kubiak and therefore the Texans.

Go Bobo!

Bobo
05-16-2006, 11:29 PM
Rah Rah Ree! Kick 'em in the knee!
Rah Rah Ras! Kick 'em in the other knee!

You go Bobo!

Great argument that the team was fired up last year in the thumping that KC put on the Texans last year 45-17. I can do without that again, fired up or not! :)

Your other argument on Dan Reeves, that he was hired to give an opinion and Reeves said to run Capers out on a rail and hire Kubiak. Excellent argument.

Rah Rah

Sometimes you have to belly up to the bar Bobo and sometimes you get a second chance. Capers didn't get a second chance in Houston but he might somewhere else and you can follow him there while the Texans fans root for the success of Kubiak and therefore the Texans.

Go Bobo!

Umm, and your point is ...?

Kaiser Toro
05-16-2006, 11:31 PM
Umm, and your point is ...?

Pot, me presenta Kettle.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 11:33 PM
Why don't you recall the 2004 season when the Broncos beat us 31-13 followed by a 41- 14 whoopin by the Colts and a 29-7 butt kickin by the Jets . Then you go out and lose to Cleveland .

Micro managing only last so long then you better hope your guys can play . Capers was a defensive genuis who's style was to rush the QB yet our all-time sack leader has 8 sacks .

I look forward to the future and say good riddance to the past . I liked the Mario pick along with Ryans , Spencer and Winston . We did'nt make dumb trades for project DE/LBs or outcast CBs , we just picked good football players who can control the line of scrimmage .

Good grief, man! The Broncos, Colts and Jets were all in the playoffs that year! The Texans were just in their third season! Something is seriously wrong in regards to your expectations regarding young teams. The Texans made tremendous strides in that third year and I don't recall anyone after that 2004 season denying that fact.

Bobo
05-16-2006, 11:35 PM
Pot, me presenta Kettle.

Whatever your point was, it certainly has eluded me. Maybe some of the other folks on this board can figure it out.

Texans86
05-16-2006, 11:37 PM
Wow...I'm not sure if Bobo is always this argumentative, or if he woke up on the side of the bed, but he seems to be taking every one of these posts as personal attacks. (Only kidding with you Bobo)

I'll see what I can do, and Bobo, I completely expect you to rip this apart, but it's offseason and fans debate like crazy.

Personally, I believe Capers is a great defensive mind, who is extremely good at putting together the foundation of a team. However, I do not feel that he was the person to take our team into the future. He is an extremely conservative coach, and played "to not lose." In his first few years, his goal was to be close enough in the 4th quarter to beat the other team. I can understand his reasoning as well, since he is a defensive minded coach. I think he was extremely loyal to his assistants, and that became a problem this past year. I was able to call the offensive plays, and even worse, the offensive audibles. That was with both Palmer and Pendry.

I find you're argument that people supported Capers in years 1-3, and therefore he must be a decent coach a little weak. First, we hadn't had football in town in a few years, and merely having the sport back made us excited. Second, he seemed to be going in the right direction the first three years. That is the key point. After year three, he made a couple bad choices that made many people question his judgement on the future of the team.

When he decided to go younger with the defense, he let a few key veterans go that would have been better if nothing else on the sideline or providing veteran leadership. I agree, we built our defense from the start out of FAs, and we needed our young guys to step up. However, they weren't ready. He let go proven players and gave unproven young players a job, and they didn't have to work for it in TC.

Our offense was improving through year 3, but the OL still needed improvement. It could have been done through FA or through the draft. Capers decided to do neither and instead wanted to change the offense we ran completely. The 3 sec. snap and throw was supposedly implemented last offseason, culminated by the 3 sec horn that shrieked to let Carr know he would be hit if that was a real game. I still cannot fathom the logic in that plan, but if it had worked out, I would have given Capers credit. However, to the dismay of many fans, when TC came around, we saw nothing of the 3 step miracle that we had worked on for so many months. This was the main reason that we came out flat during our early season. The work that the currrent team is working on right now is as important if not more important mentally than training camp is. Last year's work went to waste.

Those are a couple reasons that many people lost faith in the Capers regime. I agree with you to an extent. Capers might have been a decent coach, however some of his assistants did not help his cause. And like most organizations, the leader is responsible for everyone, and his head goes first.

Now, onto our new head coach Gary Kubiak. I'm really not sure what he did to deserve your wrath, but to me it seems that you do not like the man. If you like Capers, that is one thing, but it is a poor reason to not like someone else. You are correct, he has never won a game in the NFL. But coaches start somewhere, and he has a solid foundation learning from a proven winner in Shanahan.

Kubiak gets nothing but praise from his former boss, and he is someone whose opinion should count for something, if not the countless Denver fans who congratulated us when he was hired. He is loved in Denver, and many believe he is the real deal. He has set forth a clear plan for this team, one that does not involve giving postions away to unproven players, but involves competition for playing time. This has been one of the most active years we have had in FA, not for big names, but for a lot of smaller names that will provide competition. Capers many times wanted "not to lose." What I get from Kubiak is "I want to win." He is an outspoken person in interviews and in giving his speeches, and people catch on to that. While nothing is proven, many people believe that players reflect the attitude of their coach, and I know you keep going back to the Arizona game, but hear me out. Capers was for the most part a reserved man who took notes on the sidelines, and looked like someone who would quietly take reprimand you if you did something wrong. He was reserved. From what we have seen in his limited time in front of the podium, and in interviews, Kubiak is more outgoing. Hopefully, that is also his attitude on the sidelines, and the players catch onto that swagger.

Please note Bobo, that I did not attack you in any way, and if I did, I did not mean to. Capers is a respectable man, and will do very well in Miami. However, you're pessimism against the new coach is uncalled for. He has done nothing to show that he is incapable at the job. Only time will tell if he turns out like Capers, a man who is a great coordinator, but not the best head coach. Like many people have said before, every great head coach had to start somewhere.

Bobo
05-17-2006, 12:09 AM
Wow...I'm not sure if Bobo is always this argumentative, or if he woke up on the side of the bed, but he seems to be taking every one of these posts as personal attacks. (Only kidding with you Bobo)

I'll see what I can do, and Bobo, I completely expect you to rip this apart, but it's offseason and fans debate like crazy.

Personally, I believe Capers is a great defensive mind, who is extremely good at putting together the foundation of a team. However, I do not feel that he was the person to take our team into the future. He is an extremely conservative coach, and played "to not lose." In his first few years, his goal was to be close enough in the 4th quarter to beat the other team. I can understand his reasoning as well, since he is a defensive minded coach. I think he was extremely loyal to his assistants, and that became a problem this past year. I was able to call the offensive plays, and even worse, the offensive audibles. That was with both Palmer and Pendry.

I find you're argument that people supported Capers in years 1-3, and therefore he must be a decent coach a little weak. First, we hadn't had football in town in a few years, and merely having the sport back made us excited. Second, he seemed to be going in the right direction the first three years. That is the key point. After year three, he made a couple bad choices that made many people question his judgement on the future of the team.

When he decided to go younger with the defense, he let a few key veterans go that would have been better if nothing else on the sideline or providing veteran leadership. I agree, we built our defense from the start out of FAs, and we needed our young guys to step up. However, they weren't ready. He let go proven players and gave unproven young players a job, and they didn't have to work for it in TC.

Our offense was improving through year 3, but the OL still needed improvement. It could have been done through FA or through the draft. Capers decided to do neither and instead wanted to change the offense we ran completely. The 3 sec. snap and throw was supposedly implemented last offseason, culminated by the 3 sec horn that shrieked to let Carr know he would be hit if that was a real game. I still cannot fathom the logic in that plan, but if it had worked out, I would have given Capers credit. However, to the dismay of many fans, when TC came around, we saw nothing of the 3 step miracle that we had worked on for so many months. This was the main reason that we came out flat during our early season. The work that the currrent team is working on right now is as important if not more important mentally than training camp is. Last year's work went to waste.

Those are a couple reasons that many people lost faith in the Capers regime. I agree with you to an extent. Capers might have been a decent coach, however some of his assistants did not help his cause. And like most organizations, the leader is responsible for everyone, and his head goes first.

Now, onto our new head coach Gary Kubiak. I'm really not sure what he did to deserve your wrath, but to me it seems that you do not like the man. If you like Capers, that is one thing, but it is a poor reason to not like someone else. You are correct, he has never won a game in the NFL. But coaches start somewhere, and he has a solid foundation learning from a proven winner in Shanahan.

Kubiak gets nothing but praise from his former boss, and he is someone whose opinion should count for something, if not the countless Denver fans who congratulated us when he was hired. He is loved in Denver, and many believe he is the real deal. He has set forth a clear plan for this team, one that does not involve giving postions away to unproven players, but involves competition for playing time. This has been one of the most active years we have had in FA, not for big names, but for a lot of smaller names that will provide competition. Capers many times wanted "not to lose." What I get from Kubiak is "I want to win." He is an outspoken person in interviews and in giving his speeches, and people catch on to that. While nothing is proven, many people believe that players reflect the attitude of their coach, and I know you keep going back to the Arizona game, but hear me out. Capers was for the most part a reserved man who took notes on the sidelines, and looked like someone who would quietly take reprimand you if you did something wrong. He was reserved. From what we have seen in his limited time in front of the podium, and in interviews, Kubiak is more outgoing. Hopefully, that is also his attitude on the sidelines, and the players catch onto that swagger.

Please note Bobo, that I did not attack you in any way, and if I did, I did not mean to. Capers is a respectable man, and will do very well in Miami. However, you're pessimism against the new coach is uncalled for. He has done nothing to show that he is incapable at the job. Only time will tell if he turns out like Capers, a man who is a great coordinator, but not the best head coach. Like many people have said before, every great head coach had to start somewhere.

A.) Paul Brown took his expansion team to the divisional championship two years after his team went 3-11. Capers did well in his first three seasons and I see no reason why he could not have righted the ship and continued his string of successes into the future, just like Paul Brown did. B.) In case you didn't notice, conservative coaches win SBs. Look at the Ravens. Look at the Steelers, for that matter. Run as a matter of course, throw when you have to. Pretty conservative -- and they have the trophy. C.) Capers had an expansion team that was made up of NFL rejects and raw rookies. To play to stay close and hopefully find a way to win in the fourth quarter seems to be pretty smart to me when you look at the situation he was in since his team was quite understandably outmanned every week. My gosh, man, you're acting like this guy was the coach of a team that had been established for 20 years! This was a three, four-year-old team we are talking about! D.) I find it very, VERY disingenuous to pile on Capers regarding his fourth year and refusing to give him any kind of credit whatsoever for what he did in his first three. I don't think anybody who understands the game would say he didn't improve this team and didn't make a huge accomplishment in 2004. Yet, all of a sudden, folks forget all those things and have applied revisionist history regarding this team and its history. The folks in the stands in Reliant Stadium weren't cheering because they just had a team. If that was the case, then where were they from midseason in 2005 until the end? They had a team then. But they certainly weren't cheering. Heck, many of them didn't even bother to show up! The fact is, Capers gave them something to cheer about and if you're going to blast him for 2005 then you have to give him credit for the first three years. E.) Please, please, please. Don't even try to tell me that Capers didn't want to win any more than any other coach -- if not more. There is no evidence of that in how hard the players played and no evidence in the character or personality of Capers for that. Some of these unsubstantiated, wild-eyed accusations really do need to stop. And this stuff about Kubiak "I want to win" is somewhat laughable because every coach wants to win. And as far as Kubiak goes, he hasn't even been a head coach for a HS team so don't rush to a whole lot of unfounded conclusions about this guy. F.) I have a real hard time judging a coach via his sideline demeanor or what he says or doesn't say during news conferences. If sideline demeanor or news conferences or "being reserved" is any reflection of a coach's success, then Bill Bellicik would no longer be employed. G.) This has nothing to do with whether Capers was a nice guy, as I have said many times before. It has everything to do, however, with giving a man his proper due and I simply don't see that being done. All at once, Capers is a horrible football coach. Well, I was up there in the seats all of 2002, 2003 and 2004 and from what I saw at that time, you certainly wouldn't have many people who agreed with you. And those folks weren't just cheering because a football team was out there. They were cheering success and victories and exciting, intense play. And for an expansion team in its beginning years, there was plenty of all those things and plenty to cheer about. H.) Kubiak gets nothing but praise from his former boss and nothing but support from his team. Well, blah blah blah. What else do you expect? Do you think Shanahan would say, "Well, he did a good job with Elway but he does have his limitations. After all, Brian Griese certainly didn't lead us to any Super Bowls!" And do you expect his players to say, "Well, I certainly have reservations about playing for a guy who has never been a head coach on any major level." My pessimism regarding Kubiak has been well documented. I believe there is plenty of reason for being pessimistic and even fatalistic. I will not repeat my reasons for feeling this way as I have expressed my concerns many times. But the crowning blow to this mess is the fact that a guy who has never even been a head coach of a HS team is now the only so-called football guy connected with this squad calling the shots and has absolutely nobody to act as a check! Where is the hue and cry over that? This should be a source of concern for everybody, but nobody is saying a word. How many other coaches are acting in their capacity without a GM, especially one who has never been head coach of anything? I.) I never said Capers was "the best" head coach. But I will say that he was a dang good head coach who had one bad year and what happened to him was a shame. J.) As far as personal attacks go, it seems to me that this is a forum for football discussion. At least that's what it says on the website. And it seems to me we ALL should follow the rules.

michaelm
05-17-2006, 03:32 AM
Bobo,

In my opinion you do a very good job of manipulating a controversy. It seems that every opinion you have is expressly chosen for it's direct opposition to the general opinion of a given subject.

I'm not saying that you don't make good points in this particular subject... you have made a few decent points about Capers, but overall I disagree with you on this matter, which I believe would be to your liking.

Having said that, however, I still believe that you post simply for the sake of arguing (which I have to admit, you do well at) in many/most cases.


I am also beginning to wonder if you aren't, in fact, MONARCH...

there seem to be some similarities in word usage, sentence structure and dramatization...

Jwwillis
05-20-2006, 07:46 AM
Where do you think they came from? They aren't old classmates of Gary's from Jesuit, you know.

He went to St. Pius...Please don't mention Jesuit again...We St Thomas alums tend to get offended when we see Jesuit mentioned...

Class of '80 here. Down with green weenies...Go Eagles :howdy:

Erratic Assassin
05-20-2006, 08:33 AM
2. Nice seeing Bennie catching a pass.

For God's sake, tell Bennie Joppru to go home until our opening game. We KNOW he's going to get hurt before the season starts if we don't.

He'll probably get hurt on the first play of the season, but at least he could say that he finally got to play in an NFL game.

rafterticket
05-20-2006, 02:15 PM
[QUOTE=titan hater]

Class of '80 here. Down with green weenies...Go Eagles :howdy:

I never did come back and edit my offending remark to you fellas. My apologies - I didn't grow up here, and this must be like confusing a Catholic with a Lutheran.

GP
05-20-2006, 02:27 PM
I have a question for you Bobo...

If Kubiak leads the Texans to a WINNING season this year, would that make him a better coach than Capers, in your eyes? What would your opinion of Capers be if the Texans make it to the playoffs this year?

Most everyone was happy with the Texans improvement for the first 3 years. That doesn't mean that they didn't think the Texans should have been better. The Texans had several games that they should have won, but Capers conservative game plan let the other teams pull off the win. One big example of that was the game against the Patriots in year 2 that went into overtime. Another was the game against the Rams, this past season, when a 3rd string, Ivy league, rookie QB, led the Rams back to a victory. Those games were frustrating, and IMHO, a good coach would not have let them slip away.

You're failing to recognize that Bobo "wins" regardless of whether we do well or not.

If we don't do well, Bobo gets to take pleasure in our demise with the "I told you so" at his ready.

If we DO finish well, then he gets to say, "yeah, but that's because Capers had nothing to work with and Kubiak inherited soooooo much more...."

I already went over this with Bobo, and he pretty much agreed with me.

So, you guys and gals can argue with him all you want. You're wasting your time and you're pounding those computer keys for nothing.

Trying to reason with him is like trying to talk to a fence post. Good luck.

Jwwillis
05-20-2006, 02:42 PM
[QUOTE=Jwwillis]

I never did come back and edit my offending remark to you fellas. My apologies - I didn't grow up here, and this must be like confusing a Catholic with a Lutheran.

St. Thomas H.S. is run by Basilian Priests. It is a private, all boy, college prep H.S. The all boy thing isnt as bad as it seems; we got to raid the all girl catholic schools.