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JAXwithanX
05-15-2006, 04:14 AM
• Those famous members of the Oakland staff aren't the only high-profile coaches charged with rebuilding an offensive line. Former Green Bay coach Mike Sherman, now the assistant head coach in Houston, is being asked to fix a unit that has surrendered a mind-boggling 57.3 sacks per season in the franchise's first four seasons of existence. The Texans twice have led the NFL in sacks allowed, giving up 76 in 2002 and then 68 in 2005. Sherman brought along former Packers center Mike Flanagan to anchor the line. But the rest of the unit is in flux. Former starting center Steve McKinney, who played mostly at left guard in '05, will move to right guard, a position he has never played. Chester Pitts will move inside to left guard from his left tackle post. The right tackle again figures to be Todd Wade, but he has never lived up to the $10 million signing bonus the Texans paid him as an unrestricted free agent in 2004, and could be challenged by veteran Zach Wiegert or even rookie third-rounder Eric Winston.

The most intriguing spot, though, is the key left tackle position. It appears that Sherman will allow three-year veteran Seth Wand and third-round choice Charles Spencer to vie for the No. 1 job there. Wand has flopped in his previous shots as a starter. Spencer was forced to play left tackle at the University of Pittsburgh last season, but most teams projected him as a guard in the NFL, a spot at which he seemed more natural. But Sherman feels that if Spencer can control his weight, he's got good enough feet and a polished enough blocking base to be an effective left tackle. One veteran offensive line coach with another team recently opined that Spencer had the strongest punch-out, the maneuver that is typically the initial upper-body move used in pass blocking, he has ever encountered. So perhaps Sherman is on to something with the Pitt rookie.

Thought it may help clear up what we are planning to do with the pieces of line we have.

Texans34Life
05-15-2006, 05:06 AM
I'm worried about Mckinney's change to right guard and Pitts moved to left guard.

Really, really worried for Carr.

Malloy
05-15-2006, 06:15 AM
I have no problem with this initial lineup, if it does not work we'll know before the season starts. This is just the first attempt at fixing the line, at least they're willing to try something new out :)

[Edit] I'm woried about Carr too, but this is his last chance to show he's the starting QB. IF he does not thrive under yet another coaching staff, then he's at fault and out of here. Let's hope it does not come to that :)

Runner
05-15-2006, 06:20 AM
I'm worried about Mckinney's change to right guard and Pitts moved to left guard.

Really, really worried for Carr.

If Pitts plays the team game, he'll be a very good guard. McKinney has had his problems, but I'm willing to see how he plays guard full time. I hope Hodgdon can handle backing up Flanagan so that McKinney can concentrate on one position from here on out.

Texans_Chick
05-15-2006, 09:04 AM
This experiment will determine whether Mike Sherman is ever employable again in the league.

The line is learning a new (hardish to learn) scheme from new positions and learning to play with new players. This is kinda scary.

At this point, as fans we just need to take a leap of faith and hope for the best:

http://cowles.econ.yale.edu/news/shiller/images/leap2.jpg

This stuff goes on the top of my list of scary but exciting stuff for next season:

1. Can the offensive line figure out new positions and playing together in a new scheme by the beginning of the season?

2. Will the David Carr look like a first pick of the draft?

3. Does the 4-3 solve our defensive woes, and what will our particular 4-3 look like?

4. Will the team resemble NFL football? All teams have good looking games and ugly games. Will we actually have more good looking games? Will we finally have a game where we destroy another team (like the first part of the Rams game looked like until the wheels came off).

5. Just in general, how fast can everyone be coached up?

The Preacher
05-15-2006, 09:30 AM
Spencer could end up being a major steal out of the 3rd as it looks he has all the tools to become a dominant LT in the league. This is all very encouraging and though somewhat questionable on how it will play out, you have to start somewhere. I am just glad we acquired what could be some solid linemen and there appears to be competition and depth at every spot on the line. I expect steady improvement this year and drastic improvement in the years to come. I actually believe the o-line woes are turning a serious corner. Whether Carr can play with poise and make sound decisions is my biggest question mark since he has made some bad decisions in the past when given the opportunity to make plays. At least he should have more time back there to figure out what's going on with the new line and new coaching in place. In his 5th year he SHOULD really start to flourish.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 09:37 AM
Capers learned the hard way, keep Pitts at LT, at least for now! I thought that McKinney was supposed to start @ LG? then Mike Flanagan Center. on the right side who knows but the Texans just resigned Zach Weigert so you know that he will be a starter, most likey his natural position @ guard. that leaves open competition between Wade, Spencer & Winston for RT. I would like to see the coaching staff develop the young draftee's & start the experienced NFL vets first then depending on how well they understand & pick up the new blocking schemes move them into limited action accordingly. :twocents:

Runner
05-15-2006, 09:55 AM
Capers learned the hard way, keep Pitts at LT, at least for now!

Learned the hard way? Keep Pitts at LT?

We were 7-9 with Pitts at guard and 2-14 with Pitts back at tackle for most of the season when we had the worst offense we've ever had.

IMO, we should learn that Pitts should be at guard.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 09:58 AM
Learned the hard way? Keep Pitts at LT?

We were 7-9 with Pitts at guard and 2-14 with Pitts back at tackle for most of the season when we had the worst offense we've ever had.

IMO, we should learn that Pitts should be at guard.

I would not blame 2-14 on Pitts, he was one of the bright spots on the team, that is if you actually watched the games :chicken:

Double Barrel
05-15-2006, 10:00 AM
The o-line and defensive backfield are my biggest concerns going into next season. I really expected a major overhaul of our line, so it'll be interesting to see if it was bad coaching all along and our players actually have some talent. Our entire offensive production rests on the line play, as well as our QB's future.

Porky
05-15-2006, 10:07 AM
I don't buy that "Wade figures to be the RT" but that's another post.

When looking at our line, and the players we have added over the yrs via FA and the draft, one thing just stands out to me like a sore thumb. It seems we consistently add "tweeners", guys without one true position. When you think of Orlando Pace, you think LT right? When you think Kevin Mawae, you think Center. We have recruited one guy in my estimation like that - Flannigan. Is Mckinney a center, a LG or RG? Is Pitts a LT, LG, or maybe he is better suited at RT. Is Spencer better suited to guard or tackle? RT or LT? The same questions apply to Winston. Is Weigert suited to play RG or RT? Is Wand a LT, RT, or heck even guard. I mean there is something to be said for versatility, but these guys are not versatile in the mold of Bruce Matthews, who was so good he could play center one snap, and LT the next. No, these are guys that are simply tweeners, the Jason Babin of the offense if you will. They don't have rock solid attributes for a specific position. They have no true home imo. How this bodes for our line is tough to tell imo, but one thing is for sure, the excitement will probably continue with personell changes and moves for the forseeable future, not exactly a recipe for success.

TheOgre
05-15-2006, 10:12 AM
This experiment will determine whether Mike Sherman is ever employable again in the league.

I disagree. The guy had one losing season in Green Bay, and will likely get a new coaching gig in 2007 or 2008 regardless of what he does with the worst pass-blocking line in recent history.

Texans_Chick
05-15-2006, 10:22 AM
I disagree. The guy had one losing season in Green Bay, and will likely get a new coaching gig in 2007 or 2008 regardless of what he does with the worst pass-blocking line in recent history.


I think Mike Sherman is great. He unfairly gets the rap that his success in GB is just a product of Favre and inheriting a good program from Holmgren. That is why he isn't a head coach this year.

That being said, he is banking his future in the NFL on this line. After shuffling the folks around, if the line goes all Pendry on him, who is going to want to give him a head coaching job to a guy after a really bad season in GB and if our offensive line continues to be a national joke?

Runner
05-15-2006, 10:27 AM
I would not blame 2-14 on Pitts, he was one of the bright spots on the team, that is if you actually watched the games :chicken:

Wow! That showed me.

I didn't blame the season on Pitts, I just wonder what conclusion one can reach when the team's best offensive production was with Wand/Pitts at LT/LG.

When I did watch the games last year, I noticed the double teaming they did on the DEs with Pitts/Brown. I throw that into the equation too when I'm looking at the line play.


Sherman likes Pitts at guard too, but Pendry did end up on the "Pitts at tackle" side of the debate, so I guess that evens out. :)

Runner
05-15-2006, 10:42 AM
When looking at our line, and the players we have added over the yrs via FA and the draft, one thing just stands out to me like a sore thumb. It seems we consistently add "tweeners", guys without one true position. When you think of Orlando Pace, you think LT right? When you think Kevin Mawae, you think Center. We have recruited one guy in my estimation like that - Flannigan. Is Mckinney a center, a LG or RG? Is Pitts a LT, LG, or maybe he is better suited at RT. Is Spencer better suited to guard or tackle? RT or LT? The same questions apply to Winston. Is Weigert suited to play RG or RT? Is Wand a LT, RT, or heck even guard. I mean there is something to be said for versatility, but these guys are not versatile in the mold of Bruce Matthews, who was so good he could play center one snap, and LT the next. No, these are guys that are simply tweeners, the Jason Babin of the offense if you will. They don't have rock solid attributes for a specific position. They have no true home imo. How this bodes for our line is tough to tell imo, but one thing is for sure, the excitement will probably continue with personell changes and moves for the forseeable future, not exactly a recipe for success.

Interesting questions, but I think it was the previous staff that was enamored with players that “could play multiple positions on the line”.

I think we’ll find that this staff will settle on one position for each player, or at least either side of the line at the same position. From what I’ve heard the coaches want to settle on a starting line during camp and let them play/grow together without a lot of panic moves looking for “the right combination”. IMO we won't see a lot of musical lineman because:

- Wand is a left tackle; I don’t think they’ll move him anywhere else, certainly not guard.
- They slot Pitts at guard, and given the tackle depth they brought in I don’t think they’ll be forced to move him around in case of injuries.
- McKinney is at guard now, and I really hope he stays there unless of dire emergency. This would require that Hodgdon to be a solid #2 center.
- Weigert is problematic to me; they seem to like him at tackle, but he played solidly at guard too.
- They’ve slated Winston at RT; we’ll have to see if he fits there first, and then see if they leave him there or move him around.
- I don’t know much about Spencer, but as a “project” they may have him practice at different spots even though he’s penciled in as an LT. I doubt he’ll be moved around in different positions in games, so I’m not worrying about him.

Ibar_Harry
05-15-2006, 10:47 AM
I still say I want Pitts on the right side of the line. I would play Wiegert at LG or Eric Winston at that spot. Another possibility is to use the rookie who is possibly playing LT at LG and use Wand at LT. I have a gut feeling our best lineup might be the following:

LT-Wand,LG-Spencer,C-Flannigan,RG-Wiegert,RT-Pitts or Winston or

LT-Wand.LG-Wiegert,C-Flannigan,RG-Spencer,RT-Pitts or Winston.

Pitts and Wiegert are both better run blockers and that's why I like the 1st lineup. Winston can adapt to a lot of positions so he would make an excellent sub along the line anywhere. Wiegert was leading DD down the field the one year and DD was scary when that was happening. We will just have to wait and see what is happening.

Runner
05-15-2006, 10:52 AM
LT-Wand,LG-Spencer,C-Flannigan,RG-Wiegert,RT-Pitts or Winston or

LT-Wand.LG-Wiegert,C-Flannigan,RG-Spencer,RT-Pitts or Winston.



I think it highly unlikely that Spencer starts next year - he is a project.

Your line-up also leaves no room for Pitts if Winston beats him out for RT, which is also a highly unlikely scenario for a couple of reasons - Winston being a rookie and Pitts possibly not competing for the RT slot anyway.

We may seem some variation of this a couple of years down the road when Weigert is gone with Pitts at guard, but there is a lot of time for change between now and 2008.

Ibar_Harry
05-15-2006, 10:56 AM
I think it highly unlikely that Spencer starts next year - he is a project.

Your line-up also leaves no room for Pitts if Winston beats him out for RT, which is also a highly unlikely scenario for a couple of reasons - Winston being a rookie and Pitts possibly not competing for the RT slot anyway.

We may seem some variation of this a couple of years down the road when Weigert is gone with Pitts at guard, but there is a lot of time for change between now and 2008.

Honest differences of opinion. I think the rookies are going to have a bigger impact than you think. For one, they won't have to unlearn the Capers error dogma. They are going to be evaluated by someone who knows how to build an O-line and knows what to do with the talent he has. Pitts made a lot of mistakes at key points in the game by being called for false starts.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 11:02 AM
I don't get why you guys don't think Pitts gives the Texans / Carr the best option, at least for the time being @ LT :rolleyes: Wand is a back-up only. Pitts excells at pass blocking, his run blocking is not as strong as y'all suggest which is well documented with Pitts himself saying he prefeers to play the more athletic, finesse left tackle position.

Pitts should remain the LT for the Texans until unseated by the play on the field. McKinney is the LG with Flanagan Center. Like I said the right side is open & up in the air with only Weigert a sure bet to start one of the two positions :cool:

Runner
05-15-2006, 11:09 AM
I don't get why you guys don't think Pitts gives the Texans / Carr the best option, at least for the time being @ LT

Well, I've outlined some of my arguments in this post and so many times in previous posts that many readers here think I'm a broken record.

I get why you don't agree with me - you don't agree with my arguments or evaluate the evidence the same way I do. The reverse is why I don't agree with Pitts at LT.


Pitts himself saying he prefeers to play the more athletic, finesse left tackle position

LT is also more glamorous and higher paying.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 11:49 AM
LT is also more glamorous and higher paying.

Pitts has already been extended a new contract and is locked up for the next 5 years at a discount I might add to play the LT position which helps the team sign other key additions. just FYI :fireball:

Runner
05-15-2006, 11:55 AM
Pitts has already been extended a new contract and is locked up for the next 5 years at a discount I might add to play the LT position which helps the team sign other key additions. just FYI :fireball:

And he thought he had been manipulated and was therefore upset at playing LT for guard money. I'm not saying Pitts would hold out in that 5 year period, but the ingredients were there.

quicksilver
05-15-2006, 12:59 PM
Based on what I've repeatedly heard attributed to the Texans' scouting staff over the last couple of seasons, Pitts can be solid at LT, but can be a Pro-Bowl G.

I like Steve McKinney, but at center, the guy was blown back off the line after the snap on nearly every play. I'm not exaggerating. Did anyone else at all notice this, last season especially? Now, later last season when he played guard, he typically held his ground. If anyone with a better understanding of offensive line play/tactics can explain the reason(s) for this, I'd love to hear/read it.

From what I've heard and read, there's every reason to believe that Hodgdon will develop into a very nice center. Flanagan is, what? 34 years old? He will be much help for, probably, two seasons while Hodgdon develops.

I have no confidence in Wade.

As for the rest of the line, I have faith in Kubiak and Sherman to best assess who fits best where and to teach them. I'm so freaking relieved that we now have a coaching staff that can and will actually teach our players.

skillz24
05-15-2006, 01:07 PM
i don't think this first setup will be that effective, pitts will probably be moved back to left tackle, he has been a stud there, and spencer would be better suited to play right guard and allow mckinney to be the left guard, as far weigart and wade i think there are a few open spots in the unemployment line they could fill. and save us some cap room for a real blocker.

CoastalTexan
05-15-2006, 01:18 PM
Weigart just got extended for less money, apparently he's not going anywhere.

Maddict5
05-15-2006, 02:09 PM
I don't buy that "Wade figures to be the RT" but that's another post.

When looking at our line, and the players we have added over the yrs via FA and the draft, one thing just stands out to me like a sore thumb. It seems we consistently add "tweeners", guys without one true position. When you think of Orlando Pace, you think LT right? When you think Kevin Mawae, you think Center. We have recruited one guy in my estimation like that - Flannigan. Is Mckinney a center, a LG or RG? Is Pitts a LT, LG, or maybe he is better suited at RT. Is Spencer better suited to guard or tackle? RT or LT? The same questions apply to Winston. Is Weigert suited to play RG or RT? Is Wand a LT, RT, or heck even guard. I mean there is something to be said for versatility, but these guys are not versatile in the mold of Bruce Matthews, who was so good he could play center one snap, and LT the next. No, these are guys that are simply tweeners, the Jason Babin of the offense if you will. They don't have rock solid attributes for a specific position. They have no true home imo. How this bodes for our line is tough to tell imo, but one thing is for sure, the excitement will probably continue with personell changes and moves for the forseeable future, not exactly a recipe for success.

lecharles bentley-G/C
Leonard davis- G/T
just some that come to mind straight away- it shouldnt make too much difference if they're good enough

U4ikrob
05-15-2006, 02:49 PM
i don't think this first setup will be that effective, pitts will probably be moved back to left tackle, he has been a stud there, and spencer would be better suited to play right guard and allow mckinney to be the left guard, as far weigart and wade i think there are a few open spots in the unemployment line they could fill. and save us some cap room for a real blocker.

Not really sure where you and Beerlover are getting this Pitts is a stud LT stuff from. He's shown to be average at best in the LT position, IMO his best attribute has been his ability to avoid penalties, not his protection against the beasts at the DE position. Honestly I think Pitts can be an all-pro at Guard, but he thinks hes an LT and thus the problem. He would be a serviceable LT, he honestly did not measure up well on the line against bigger defensive ends over the few years when he had to play the LT.

Wand is more of a natural size to be a LT, the staff just misused horribly and did not work with him from the start the right way to be a good LT and solidify his technique problems. Grant you wand has some things -technique - to work on to be - The LT - for this team. He was a project player and our Clueless Capers Staff switched him around all the time the first year from Special teams to Tight end to RT. His first real shot at really playing LT for the Texans wasnt until 04 when they said he was the man and we went to a 7-9 record. He showed good promise that season, but it was all for nought as our Clueless staff went about switching schemes, coaches and everything else and Wand was back on the bench again. Honestly Capers/Palmer/Pendry all came off as completely clueless when it came to our O-line and it showed which was why no team feared us on Offense and always brought the rush - They knew we couldnt protect DC and when a defense knows you cant protect the QB - its like blood in the water with sharks - they just keep coming until you make them stop - which we never did. Wand is bigger, longer reach/wingspan and 4 inches taller then Pitts is which helps alot when working against the 6-5 DE who weighs roughly the same as you tryign to bull rush past. Pitts struggled alot with that that I saw, he has the weight to compete and had good technique getting underneath which is great for the guard position, but got beat on speed rush plays regularly.

Dont take my comments on Pitts the wrong way - He's an excellant blocker, and I felt a natural fit at guard, but just seemed to float a bit too much and not seal the line up well when playing at LT when ive seen him play. I look forward to good competition on the line as well as almost every team position this year for a change.

Honestly I would really like it if they put in a team rule like some others do. You dont get logo stickers on your helmets until you make the team. Start making players earn the right to wear the Bull and earn a measure of respect when they put that - Official Logo - on their helmet and represent this city and team.

Meloy
05-15-2006, 03:11 PM
I think Mike Sherman is great. He unfairly gets the rap that his success in GB is just a product of Favre and inheriting a good program from Holmgren. That is why he isn't a head coach this year.

That being said, he is banking his future in the NFL on this line. After shuffling the folks around, if the line goes all Pendry on him, who is going to want to give him a head coaching job to a guy after a really bad season in GB and if our offensive line continues to be a national joke?And this is why, to me, Sherman is the right guy at the right place at the right time. He will bust his butt to have the right guys on the field and they will be motivated unlike last year. Sherman will get offers even if our oline collapses; but he will be able to write his own ticket if the line does well.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 03:14 PM
Not really sure where you and Beerlover are getting this Pitts is a stud LT stuff from. He's shown to be average at best in the LT position, IMO his best attribute has been his ability to avoid penalties, not his protection against the beasts at the DE position.

starting all 64/64 games since being drafted for one, another is he handled Freeney one on one as well as any tackle in the NFL last meeting. And for as much as they move him around I don't see all that much complaining :ok:

Meloy
05-15-2006, 03:35 PM
Not really sure where you and Beerlover are getting this Pitts is a stud LT stuff from. He's shown to be average at best in the LT position, IMO his best attribute has been his ability to avoid penalties, not his protection against the beasts at the DE position. Honestly I think Pitts can be an all-pro at Guard, but he thinks hes an LT and thus the problem. He would be a serviceable LT, he honestly did not measure up well on the line against bigger defensive ends over the few years when he had to play the LT.

Wand is more of a natural size to be a LT, the staff just misused horribly and did not work with him from the start the right way to be a good LT and solidify his technique problems. Grant you wand has some things -technique - to work on to be - The LT - for this team. He was a project player and our Clueless Capers Staff switched him around all the time the first year from Special teams to Tight end to RT. His first real shot at really playing LT for the Texans wasnt until 04 when they said he was the man and we went to a 7-9 record. He showed good promise that season, but it was all for nought as our Clueless staff went about switching schemes, coaches and everything else and Wand was back on the bench again. Honestly Capers/Palmer/Pendry all came off as completely clueless when it came to our O-line and it showed which was why no team feared us on Offense and always brought the rush - They knew we couldnt protect DC and when a defense knows you cant protect the QB - its like blood in the water with sharks - they just keep coming until you make them stop - which we never did. Wand is bigger, longer reach/wingspan and 4 inches taller then Pitts is which helps alot when working against the 6-5 DE who weighs roughly the same as you tryign to bull rush past. Pitts struggled alot with that that I saw, he has the weight to compete and had good technique getting underneath which is great for the guard position, but got beat on speed rush plays regularly.

Dont take my comments on Pitts the wrong way - He's an excellant blocker, and I felt a natural fit at guard, but just seemed to float a bit too much and not seal the line up well when playing at LT when ive seen him play. I look forward to good competition on the line as well as almost every team position this year for a change.

Honestly I would really like it if they put in a team rule like some others do. You dont get logo stickers on your helmets until you make the team. Start making players earn the right to wear the Bull and earn a measure of respect when they put that - Official Logo - on their helmet and represent this city and team. I agree 100%. I like Pitts and his tenacity. He just got beat sometimes by bigger or faster DEs. Regardless, I feel better about Oline than in 2 years. Hope I am not disappointed.

Runner
05-15-2006, 03:50 PM
This quote is an excerpt from a post from last November. It explains the double team scheme used against Freeney. Pitts also had this type of help against other ends.


...
An example of what the coaching staff can do to leverage our strengths or take away an opponent's strengths is how they played Freeney in the second Colts game. They did not double team Freeney at the snap on every play, but the double team was available on most plays. The coaches set it up so that Brown would double team Freeney only if he did an inside rush or a spin move. This allowed Pitts to over-compensate for the outside speed rush and this gave him enough of an advantage so that he could handle the outside rush one-on-one. It also allowed Brown to play the inside defensive lineman on the majority of plays.

This scheme is more complicated than simply assigning 1 or 2 blockers to each defender, but our players were able to handle it. I think the coaches were forced to try something different out of desperation. Our players stepped up and executed the plan. It is disappointing that it took so long for the coaches to do this sort of thing and that they do it so infrequently.
...

In addition, in the Seattle game he had excessive help from the tight end. I say excessive because Pitts himself was embarrased by how much help Bruener gave him.

U4ikrob
05-15-2006, 04:15 PM
starting all 64/64 games since being drafted for one, another is he handled Freeney one on one as well as any tackle in the NFL last meeting. And for as much as they move him around I don't see all that much complaining :ok:

He started all 64 games its true - IMO its awesome hes stayed so healthy with all the changes on the line, but most of those starts were not at LT. I dont doubt Pitts heart or his durability - he just hasnt been lights out as an LT which is what you were stating above that I disagree with.

As for handling Freeney one on one as well as any tackle in the NFL - I disagree with that. He played decent against him - Overall the line did poor last year and against the colts We allowed 5 sacks the first game and 3 the second game alogn with several hurries and two FF and two batted passes.
If you have some stats to back Pitts up and his play v all other NFL tackles - against similar competition I would love to see them as my own game tape and stats dont agree.

I Grant you not all sacks or losses are accounted to Pitts like you mentioned above, however he was the LT on the Oline that shares the blame for 2-14 last year just like every other player does from that squad.

Bottom line - I just want the team to have a decent line and think Wand is a lot better and the last staff gave up on him - I just dont think Pitts has all the intangibles to be a premier LT. I see him making Pro-bowls @ guard though.

beerlover
05-15-2006, 04:18 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2203

Chester Pitts’ play during the second half of the season has been rock solid. In the six games he has started since moving from left guard, the Texans’ sack totals have tapered considerably to an average of 3.3 per game. That’s still a sack more than the league average, but it is more than three sacks per game less than what the Texans allowed through Week 4 (6.75 avg.).

In the past three games, Pitts has raised the bar even higher against some of the league’s best pass-rushing defensive ends. The Jaguars’ Reggie Hayward finished with one tackle at Jacksonville, while the NFL’s reigning sack leader, Dwight Freeney, had only one sack at Indianapolis. This past weekend against the Chiefs, Pitts shut down Jared Allen, who entered Reliant Stadium with seven sacks and left without adding another.

Six games remain in the season, so a lot can change. Pitts’ position, though, is likely to stay the same.

He signed a five-year contract extension in September, so hopefully he’ll be donning the Texans colors into the next decade. And, based on his play of late, Pitts won’t relinquish his spot at left tackle any time soon.

for what its worth you guys are killing me :crutch:

Runner
05-15-2006, 04:21 PM
We should keep that two-step drop offense in place from the second half of last year too. Sure we won't score any points, but think how few sacks we'll have.


By the way - Kubiak, Sherman, et. al. are going to be "killing you" too, since they don't seem to realize Pitts is a stud LT.

Texans_Chick
05-15-2006, 05:06 PM
I think it highly unlikely that Spencer starts next year - he is a project.

Your line-up also leaves no room for Pitts if Winston beats him out for RT, which is also a highly unlikely scenario for a couple of reasons - Winston being a rookie and Pitts possibly not competing for the RT slot anyway.

We may seem some variation of this a couple of years down the road when Weigert is gone with Pitts at guard, but there is a lot of time for change between now and 2008.


I just don't see the rookies starting, though I do see them pushing for time. There is just such a huge learning curve for these guys because the defenses are just so much more talented and complex. When they first start out, it is just about surviving.

Show me a team starting rookie offensive linemen, and I will show you a team that is getting drive killing penalties.

Rookies are just begging for false start calls--and the defense tries to jack with them hard--and because you can call holding on just about every play if you are looking for it, a veteran can get away with stuff that refs won't let rookies get away with.

The test will be early in the season. Defenses playing cover 2 and throwing the kitchen sink at Carr. It has been ugly since the end of two seasons ago, but we just need to see if the book changes on how to play the Texans.

U4ikrob
05-15-2006, 05:27 PM
for what its worth you guys are killing me :crutch:

IMO - that was some good-spin-doctoring by the Texans PR staff trying to put a smile on a season spinning out of control. During last year the news staff thru out basically anything positive from games and Chester's improved blocking was one of the few things they wanted to talk about even though they knew the results were not changing on the field. The bottom line was we still lost all of those games and Pitts was on the line as the LT for those losses - Neither game vs the colts was even close at the endscore so his improved blocking was positive news to report.

From what I recall - Most of that first game against the Colts - Pitts had help from double teams against Freeney to try and help with protection. and got beat a few times The Colts got 5 sacks that game including 3 in a row on one series shortly after the second half. The second game - The Texans tried game planning even more for Freeney and moved help across the line to help Chester handle the speed rush. They cut the sack total to only 3+ which was a good improvement for sure, but still lost by almost double. [31-17]

But rather than keep beating a :deadhorse - I will trust in Kubes and his staff to have a better plan and grasp of player talent this year. That things will get better sooner rather than later and we will make serious strides to being a competitive NFL quality football team this year and the years to come.

Texas
05-15-2006, 06:13 PM
I have faith that they will make a strong line this year.

Scooter
05-15-2006, 06:42 PM
i'm willing to bet that nomatter what the line looks like at the beginning of the season, it wont be the same at the end of the year. i agree with ibar that pitts would probably look best at right tackle, and spencer holding left guard. that strong punch & initial burst from spencer is what's going to save us from stroud, henderson, and the other big uglies that have been pushing mckinney around. wand i'd leave at starting left tackle for now, and have winston competing for one (or both) of the tackle positions. pitts can play anywhere on the line, so if winston takes his RT spot in the future, pitts can still move inside to RG or even swap guard spots with spencer.

however it happens, i think we're going to see plenty of moving around while the new staff evaluates our guys & learns their strengths. watching tapes on how they worked under capers is one thing, they need to see how each guy responds to kubiak's system.

WILLIEG
05-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Just because someone signs or resigns doesn't mean they will make the final cut.

jdog
05-15-2006, 07:42 PM
I don't get why you guys don't think Pitts gives the Texans / Carr the best option, at least for the time being @ LT :rolleyes: Wand is a back-up only. Pitts excells at pass blocking, his run blocking is not as strong as y'all suggest which is well documented with Pitts himself saying he prefeers to play the more athletic, finesse left tackle position.

Pitts should remain the LT for the Texans until unseated by the play on the field. McKinney is the LG with Flanagan Center. Like I said the right side is open & up in the air with only Weigert a sure bet to start one of the two positions :cool:

Is your name Chester?

jdog
05-15-2006, 07:48 PM
I just don't see the rookies starting, though I do see them pushing for time. There is just such a huge learning curve for these guys because the defenses are just so much more talented and complex. When they first start out, it is just about surviving.

Show me a team starting rookie offensive linemen, and I will show you a team that is getting drive killing penalties.

Rookies are just begging for false start calls--and the defense tries to jack with them hard--and because you can call holding on just about every play if you are looking for it, a veteran can get away with stuff that refs won't let rookies get away with.

The test will be early in the season. Defenses playing cover 2 and throwing the kitchen sink at Carr. It has been ugly since the end of two seasons ago, but we just need to see if the book changes on how to play the Texans.

I think Putzier will help alot with the cover 2.

beerlover
05-16-2006, 02:11 AM
We should keep that two-step drop offense in place from the second half of last year too. Sure we won't score any points, but think how few sacks we'll have.


By the way - Kubiak, Sherman, et. al. are going to be "killing you" too, since they don't seem to realize Pitts is a stud LT.

only killing me with laughter from your weak two-step takes, sure we won't score any points sarcasm or Kubiac/Sherman give a rats ass about me little enough of you Runner :crying: like a baby :rollbaby:

unless one of the young guns steps forward very early on or Wand has a complete transformation or X-Men mutation into a NFL starting LT, Chester Pitts gives the Texans their best option at least for now. lets step back from the emotions and look exactly at what he has become besides an ironman. He is very athletic, and has quick feet combined with good technique & he is experienced. Chester is a solid 320 lbs @ 6035 is not as far away from the prototypical height & weight for a NFL LT he also has a 35 1/2" reach with a solid wide leg base which would help explain the success he has enjoyed @ tackle versus guard.

I welcome the challenge and will abide fully with Kubiak & Sherman they certainly know best, but when the dust settles and the air is clear don't be shocked to find out that Pitts has staked his claim to be the Texans 2006/07 Left Tackle, then :wherewill

BradK10
05-16-2006, 02:50 AM
I don't buy that "Wade figures to be the RT" but that's another post.

When looking at our line, and the players we have added over the yrs via FA and the draft, one thing just stands out to me like a sore thumb. It seems we consistently add "tweeners", guys without one true position. When you think of Orlando Pace, you think LT right? When you think Kevin Mawae, you think Center. We have recruited one guy in my estimation like that - Flannigan. Is Mckinney a center, a LG or RG? Is Pitts a LT, LG, or maybe he is better suited at RT. Is Spencer better suited to guard or tackle? RT or LT? The same questions apply to Winston. Is Weigert suited to play RG or RT? Is Wand a LT, RT, or heck even guard. I mean there is something to be said for versatility, but these guys are not versatile in the mold of Bruce Matthews, who was so good he could play center one snap, and LT the next. No, these are guys that are simply tweeners, the Jason Babin of the offense if you will. They don't have rock solid attributes for a specific position. They have no true home imo. How this bodes for our line is tough to tell imo, but one thing is for sure, the excitement will probably continue with personell changes and moves for the forseeable future, not exactly a recipe for success.

When did Bruce play anything other than center?

Runner
05-16-2006, 07:54 AM
only killing me with laughter from your weak two-step takes, sure we won't score any points sarcasm or Kubiac/Sherman give a rats ass about me little enough of you Runner :crying: like a baby :rollbaby:


Crying like a baby? I didn't know you were taking this so personally. I thought we were debating the Texans.

When considering how well Chester did in the second half of last year, you have to look at the offense as a whole too, which has been pointed out by others.

Who said the coaches cared about me or you anyway?



unless one of the young guns steps forward very early on or Wand has a complete transformation or X-Men mutation into a NFL starting LT, Chester Pitts gives the Texans their best option at least for now. lets step back from the emotions and look exactly at what he has become besides an ironman. He is very athletic, and has quick feet combined with good technique & he is experienced. Chester is a solid 320 lbs @ 6035 is not as far away from the prototypical height & weight for a NFL LT he also has a 35 1/2" reach with a solid wide leg base which would help explain the success he has enjoyed @ tackle versus guard.



I agree that Chester is a good player. I don't think he's the best LT on the team and have presented my reasons for thinking so. Again to be clear - that is football debate, not a personal attack on you.


I welcome the challenge and will abide fully with Kubiak & Sherman they certainly know best, but when the dust settles and the air is clear don't be shocked to find out that Pitts has staked his claim to be the Texans 2006/07 Left Tackle, then :wherewill

I'll be here. I made it through the Pendry years.


You may have the last word on this debate. I'm moving on since it seems to be less then constructive.



It's because I have a martini in my avatar and you're a beer lover, right? <== joke

Kaiser Toro
05-16-2006, 08:02 AM
only killing me with laughter from your weak two-step takes, sure we won't score any points sarcasm or Kubiac/Sherman give a rats ass about me little enough of you Runner :crying: like a baby :rollbaby:

unless one of the young guns steps forward very early on or Wand has a complete transformation or X-Men mutation into a NFL starting LT, Chester Pitts gives the Texans their best option at least for now. lets step back from the emotions and look exactly at what he has become besides an ironman. He is very athletic, and has quick feet combined with good technique & he is experienced. Chester is a solid 320 lbs @ 6035 is not as far away from the prototypical height & weight for a NFL LT he also has a 35 1/2" reach with a solid wide leg base which would help explain the success he has enjoyed @ tackle versus guard.

I welcome the challenge and will abide fully with Kubiak & Sherman they certainly know best, but when the dust settles and the air is clear don't be shocked to find out that Pitts has staked his claim to be the Texans 2006/07 Left Tackle, then :wherewill

I am not sure I understand how certain you can be that Pitts is best at LT for the future success of the team. The last staff drafted and extended him as a Guard and the current staff is positioning him at Guard. Seems to be an awful lot of NFL coaching experience dictating where he should be playing. But hey I have been known to play an armchair GM in the wirtual world as well.

beerlover
05-16-2006, 08:50 AM
It's because I have a martini in my avatar and you're a beer lover, right? <== joke

Its All Good, except I NEVER touch the hard stuff. We'll see what develops I do feel there is still some good talent (Pitts being one of the key cornerstones) left on the 2-14 team that while they have to accept responsiblity for not just their own play but the Texans lackluster seasons of past, have a lot to prove and not only the ability but the confidence to turn this mess around w/better coaching :thankyou:

Runner
05-16-2006, 09:12 AM
Its All Good, except I NEVER touch the hard stuff. We'll see what develops I do feel there is still some good talent (Pitts being one of the key cornerstones) left on the 2-14 team that while they have to accept responsiblity for not just their own play but the Texans lackluster seasons of past, have a lot to prove and not only the ability but the confidence to turn this mess around w/better coaching :thankyou:

There were so many things interracting with each other last year: conservative coaching, poor schemes, some poor players, lack of belief in the system, lame duck coach, loss of confidence, tough early schdule, yada yada yada that I don't put much stock in evaluating anyone - good or bad - based on last year's performance alone. I think that the 2004 season was a truer reflection of the talent on the team. That year we had a our problems but they didn't build on each other as much as they did in 2005. Of course the 2003 and earlier seasons can provide some insight to the "old-timers" on the team.

I think we have a few players that will be much better now than they have been previously, but I agree - they have to show it on the field. Kubiak seems to have inspired the confidence they need in the early stages here; we'll see if it carries through into the season.

Falcons'82
05-17-2006, 02:57 PM
So, how many OL are they going to keep? Just looking at the roster, there are 10 candidates, but it's not likely that all 10 will be kept(although if the line continues it's problems, it wouldn't be a bad idea).

Steve McKinney
Mike Flanagan
Fred Weary
Chester Pitts
Zach Wiegert
Todd Wade
Seth Wand
Eric Winston
Charles Spencer
Ephraim Salaam

Runner
05-17-2006, 03:01 PM
So, how many OL are they going to keep? Just looking at the roster, there are 10 candidates, but it's not likely that all 10 will be kept(although if the line continues it's problems, it wouldn't be a bad idea).

Steve McKinney
Mike Flanagan
Fred Weary
Chester Pitts
Zach Wiegert
Todd Wade
Seth Wand
Eric Winston
Charles Spencer
Ephraim Salaam

I don't know - no Hodgdon? So McKinney remains as back-up center. It will be interesting to see if they do a June 1 cut of Wade.

Falcons'82
05-17-2006, 03:06 PM
Hodgdon is there, but I figured these were the 10 with best shot to be on opening day roster.

real
05-17-2006, 03:51 PM
Hodgdon is there, but I figured these were the 10 with best shot to be on opening day roster.
I think Hogdon has a shot.... He just needs to get his strenght up....but from what i've seen of him he looked pretty good

El Tejano
05-17-2006, 04:00 PM
I think Hogdon has a shot.... He just needs to get his strenght up....but from what i've seen of him he looked pretty good
Yeah he did. I remember when he came into the game against Cincy, we actually started to look something like an offense.