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CAJ
09-01-2004, 10:24 AM
Is it me or is the offensive coordinator too passive. I think the best player on the team is Domanick Davis. The player that gets the most pub is David Carr. If you want him to be the man, use him. I have no doubt that David Carr is a good quarterback, but if hes the so called man, quit running so much on first and second down. Put the dang ball in the air. It's not like we don't have the horses. One of the best hands on the team is Billy Miller, but we don't use him like we should. Domanick got a thousand yards last season, so if we throw to the tight end every once in a while (and keep the linebackers honest), he's liable to have a thousand five hundred. I'm going to steal a little something from Keyshawn. Give the receivers the da-- ball.

Does anyone feel the same as me?

V Man
09-01-2004, 10:38 AM
Let's start the year before we say it is to passive.

Txnpride
09-01-2004, 10:41 AM
I am sure the playbook will open up after the REAL season starts."Stay tuned"....its going to be flying all over the field SOON. :thumbup

keyfro
09-01-2004, 10:59 AM
yeah you never want to show a lot of your play book before the season starts...but typically palmer does have a soft playbook...but who knows maybe he'll open it up this season

done88
09-01-2004, 11:06 AM
From the games I've been watching this years pre-season games have included quite a bit more passing then in the past. Carr is running play action passses. They hit Bradfor for the big pass to start the game. Armstrong ran the timing route for the touchdown. From what I've seen in the pre-season I expect to see a wide open offense come the regular season.

TheOgre
09-01-2004, 11:09 AM
I think the plan going into last season was to open up the playbook. However we took so many hits on defense, particularly along the D-line, that they had to scrap that. Capers philosophy became "Chris (Palmer) keep it close and give us a chance to win it in the 4th". I think it opens up this year.

Meloy
09-01-2004, 11:17 AM
Palmer's history is as a more wide open game plan. A lot of talk focuses on Caper's more conservative approach. While I enjoy watching a receiver go for 20+, a well known U of Texas coach said " 3 things can happen on a pass & 2 are bad." We had a 1,000yd rusher last year and Johnson almost got 1,000 in receptions + Bradford over 20 yds per catch. Seems like the game plan is doing ok. It just depends on the fan's view of run vs pass. The new zone blocking should be interesting especially with new look of O line that has good depth this season.

Did anyone notice that Billy Miller took reps @ deep snapper Tuesday? Maybe JJ Moses is not the only one dimensional player in danger of losing his spot. I really like Kendrick Starling's desire.

Lucky
09-01-2004, 12:25 PM
Following are the run/pass plays for the Texans this preseason with Carr at QB:

1st Down - 13 runs/17 passes
2nd Down - 13 runs/9 passes
3rd Down - 3 runs/10 passes

Total Plays - 29 runs/36 passes

Palmer stated earlier this summer that he would like the Texans to have a run/pass ratio per game of 30/35. That's pretty close to that number if you ask me. I've never been Palmer's greatest advocate and I don't like to extrapolate too much from the preseason to the regular season. But, I've been pretty happy with what I've seen from the Texans as far as play calling and automatics thus far.

CAJ
09-01-2004, 02:22 PM
Following are the run/pass plays for the Texans this preseason with Carr at QB:

1st Down - 13 runs/17 passes
2nd Down - 13 runs/9 passes
3rd Down - 3 runs/10 passes

Total Plays - 29 runs/36 passes

Palmer stated earlier this summer that he would like the Texans to have a run/pass ratio per game of 30/35. That's pretty close to that number if you ask me. I've never been Palmer's greatest advocate and I don't like to extrapolate too much from the preseason to the regular season. But, I've been pretty happy with what I've seen from the Texans as far as play calling and automatics thus far.
Those numbers look good on paper, but lets mix it up a little. How many times have you seen us go 3 and out because we ran for nothing on first and second down.

BornOrange
09-01-2004, 02:27 PM
Following are the run/pass plays for the Texans this preseason with Carr at QB:

1st Down - 13 runs/17 passes
2nd Down - 13 runs/9 passes
3rd Down - 3 runs/10 passes

Total Plays - 29 runs/36 passes

Palmer stated earlier this summer that he would like the Texans to have a run/pass ratio per game of 30/35. That's pretty close to that number if you ask me. I've never been Palmer's greatest advocate and I don't like to extrapolate too much from the preseason to the regular season. But, I've been pretty happy with what I've seen from the Texans as far as play calling and automatics thus far.

Those numbers look good on paper, but lets mix it up a little. How many times have you seen us go 3 and out because we ran for nothing on first and second down.

???????? idonno:

Kinda reminds me of my relationship with Halle Berry.
I had to break up with her because she couldn't cook.
A man has to have his standards...... :crazy:

TEXANS84
09-01-2004, 02:28 PM
quit running so much on first and second down. Put the dang ball in the air.

I agree with you on running the ball in situations like the 3rd down last year against New England. But, Running the ball 2 out of 3 plays (if we achieve yardage) is ok with me because we will be in control of the clock.

The more time we have the ball, the less the opposing team has to score on us. This isn't Madden 2005 where you throw a long ball every play. I trust Palmer, and I don't think he would run a play if it didn't get us any yardage.

Lucky
09-01-2004, 02:47 PM
Those numbers look good on paper, but lets mix it up a little. How many times have you seen us go 3 and out because we ran for nothing on first and second down.
Twice. The 1st 2 series in the Steeler game.

Carr has led the Texans to 5 scores (27 points) in 11 drives this preseason.

CAJ
09-01-2004, 03:00 PM
Twice. The 1st 2 series in the Steeler game.

Carr has led the Texans to 5 scores (27 points) in 11 drives this preseason.
Did you watch the Denver Game? What's so bad with putting the ball in the air. We put so much stock into David Carr. Let him earn his money, or quit talking about him.

CAJ
09-01-2004, 03:06 PM
I agree with you on running the ball in situations like the 3rd down last year against New England. But, Running the ball 2 out of 3 plays (if we achieve yardage) is ok with me because we will be in control of the clock.

The more time we have the ball, the less the opposing team has to score on us. This isn't Madden 2005 where you throw a long ball every play. I trust Palmer, and I don't think he would run a play if it didn't get us any yardage.
For one I don't play madden 2005. When I did play madden, I beat people by controlling the clock. My favorite team is Steve Mcnair and the titans, one of the best teams at controlling the clock. If you played the game of football you would understand that you have to put the ball in the air to open up the game. David has the horses, use them. If not don't talk as if he's the BMOC, until he can put that ball up consistently the jury's still out on him. Until then Mr. Davis is the man. Or is he just another one of Palmers work horses.

dredge
09-01-2004, 03:12 PM
Following are the run/pass plays for the Texans this preseason with Carr at QB:

1st Down - 13 runs/17 passes
2nd Down - 13 runs/9 passes
3rd Down - 3 runs/10 passes

Total Plays - 29 runs/36 passes


I remember last year that a lot of fans would call the talk shows and complain about how much we ran on 1st down. Vandemeer was quick to point out that the stats showed it was almost 50/50 run/pass ratio on 1st down. It seemed skewered somehow to me because I remembered more running plays as well, so I started thinking (kinda scary).
I think during the normal course of the game we run a bit more than we pass. Probably 60/40 ratio ( and w/DD I'm not complaining). However when we are in the 2 minute drill and when we are way behind, we pass on almost every down. Say we have 4 passes in a row for 1st downs in the 2 minute drill. Well,if earlier in the game you ran 4 times on 1st down and ended up 3 and out on each series then it would look like a balanced attack, but was it really? During the course of the the numers may balance out, but I think we run more when the game is close and we are not in a hury-up mode. Just one way to see the numbers don't really seem to tell the whole story. I would like them not to run the litttle delay up the middle on 2nd and long this much this year though. A screen mixed in there once in a while would be nice.

CAJ
09-01-2004, 03:15 PM
I remember last year that a lot of fans would call the talk shows and complain about how much we ran on 1st down. Vandemeer was quick to point out that the stats showed it was almost 50/50 run/pass ratio on 1st down. It seemed skewered somehow to me because I remembered more running plays as well, so I started thinking (kinda scary).
I think during the normal course of the game we run a bit more than we pass. Probably 60/40 ratio ( and w/DD I'm not complaining). However when we are in the 2 minute drill and when we are way behind, we pass on almost every down. Say we have 4 passes in a row for 1st downs in the 2 minute drill. Well,if earlier in the game you ran 4 times on 1st down and ended up 3 and out on each series then it would look like a balanced attack, but was it really? During the course of the the numers may balance out, but I think we run more when the game is close and we are not in a hury-up mode. Just one way to see the numbers don't really seem to tell the whole story. I would like them not to run the litttle delay up the middle on 2nd and long this much this year though. A screen mixed in there once in a while would be nice.
Great points.

El Tejano
09-01-2004, 03:22 PM
I just hope the coaches realize this year that if they just throw the ball up they have good chances of getting pass interference calls or catches this year.

Chance_C
09-01-2004, 04:17 PM
Carr needs to call more audibles and manage the game

That's something that he has been doing more of. As well as checking off his receivers, better pocket presence, no interceptions, more touch on the ball....It looks like he is ready to take the next step.

Lucky
09-01-2004, 04:44 PM
I remember last year that a lot of fans would call the talk shows and complain about how much we ran on 1st down...
Well, are we talking about last season or this season? Last year, the quarterback was out for a 1/3 of the season. The defense was decimated with injuries. All of that and Domanick's emergence led to the 49/51 run/pass ratio. I'm sure the Texans did throw more during the 2 minute drill or when they were hopelessly behind. But they also ran the ball more than usual due to the QB injuries. If you look back before the 1st Carr injury, the Texans had a 46/54 run/pass ratio. That's pretty much average for the NFL. The post-Carr injury ratio was 52/48.

Carr is 22-31-270 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INT's in a little over 4 quarters of work this preseason. I don't know if Carr will continue to get the opportunities to throw the ball once the real season begins. But I'm not going to assume that the Texans will revert back to the same Carr-less offensive game plans of '03 either.

rhc564
09-01-2004, 07:55 PM
Question- Are the Texans 'coached to win' or are they "coached not to
lose?'

Vinny
09-01-2004, 08:05 PM
Question- Are the Texans 'coached to win' or are they "coached not to
lose?' I think they were coaching a young expansion team that was built for the long haul in our two start-up years. You aren't going to try to accomplish the same things as a team that has all the tools for a Super Bowl run. You can't open up the offense as much and you can't take many risks when you get beat physically on defense. I find it hard to carry the 02, 03 Texans and their tendencies into 04.

aj.
09-01-2004, 09:51 PM
Not that I've had major problems in this area but the problems I've seen relate more to execution than play calling by a long shot.

The run run pass argument was debunked more than it was upheld last year.

A well mixed 30/35 run/pass is probably a pretty good target.

Here's a perspective:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=932

Fiddy
09-01-2004, 10:20 PM
I think the best player on the team is Domanick Davis.Andre Johnson should have that title over DD if you want to omit Carr because he gets too much attention. I read an intresting scouting report in my SI magazine (you can also read it online if you have a subscription and havent gotten it in the mail)Domanick Davis is O.K., but how many of his yards last year came because teams just weren't going to let Houston beat them deep?...Andre Johnson is the real deal. He's physical and can run like hell, and I think his concentration lapses will be few and far between

And on the topic of Passive play calling:
A couple of people have had trouble grasping that it is the preseason. We have already had a 'Fire Palmer' thread and now a thread questioning the play calling. It is like poker, you dont show your hand when you dont need too. Just wait till the season...

CAJ
09-01-2004, 11:10 PM
Andre Johnson should have that title over DD if you want to omit Carr because he gets too much attention. I read an intresting scouting report in my SI magazine (you can also read it online if you have a subscription and havent gotten it in the mail)...
Your talking about what Andre can do. I'm talking about what DD did.

Fiddy
09-01-2004, 11:37 PM
Your talking about what Andre can do. I'm talking about what DD did.DD ran for 1000 yards his rookie season. 40 other rookie RBs have completed that feat in the history of the NFL. It is much harder for a rookie WR to adjust to the NFL and put up good numbers their rookie year....

I think the only WRs to have better rookie years then AJ were Terry Glenn, Randy Moss, Anquain Boldin and maybe Joey Galloway... (can somebody check that)

Just for comparsion, AJ had a better rookie season then (I only looked at 1st round picks) Charles Rogers, Bryant Johnson, Javon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Donte Stallworth, David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, Santana Moss, Freddie Mitchell, Reggie Wayne, Peter Warrick, Plaxico Burress, Travis Taylor, Sylvester Morris, Jay R. Soward, Torry Holt, David Boston, Troy Edwards, Kevin Dyson, Ike Hillard, Yatil Green, Reidel Anthony, Rae Carruth, Keyshawn Johnson, Eddie Kennison, Marvin Harrision, Eric Moulds. This is up to the 1996 draft and I have only left off Glenn, Moss, and Galloway, so if I am thinking right, AJ had the 5th best rookie year of all the WRs in NFL history (Boldin included).....

AJ is better then DD...(I can name 5 backs who had better rookie years then DD right off the top of my head: Portis, A-Train, LT, Edge, and Eddie George)

Fiddy
09-01-2004, 11:44 PM
Earl Campbell also comes to mind. But most of the backs you just mentioned played behind far superior lines than DD did last year. And most of them were given the starting nod immediately. What DD did was in 10 starts.Our line was pretty good last year, and DD doesnt get 1000 yards if he doesnt play in the games against the Dolphins, Saints, and Jags game. The number 1000 just seems to make everything bigger and better, I guess.....

Dont get me wrong. I am not saying what DD did wasnt impressive. It was, but I was just saying that over the history of the NFL 40 other RBs have got 1000 yards their rookie seasons and only 4 other WRs have had a better rookie season then AJ. And dont forget that AJ probably gets 1000 yards if the Texans didnt have to play musical QBs....