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View Full Version : Yes, Zone Blocking Scheme can make a difference in YEAR 1


Texian
05-11-2006, 11:40 PM
2003 - the year before Alex Gibbs went to Atlanta, Dan Reeves was HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 14th in Rushing, 1949 yards - Denver 2nd in rushing 2629 yards

2004 - Alex Gibbs arrives in Atlanta, Jim Mora is HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2672 yards - Denver 4th in Rushing 2333 yards

2005 - Kubiak in Denver, Gibbs in Atlanta
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2546 yards - Denver 2nd in Rushing 2539 yards (7 yards)
Houston 15th in Rushing 1816 yards.

FYI - Green Bay - Mike Sherman, HC
2003 - 3rd in Rushing, 2558 yards
2004 - 10th in Rushing, 1908 yards
2005 - 30th in Rushing, 1352 yards, GB lost 2 Gs Wahl & Rivera in off season and 3 RBs to injury in the regular season.

2006 - Houston, 2200 yards is a real possibilty.

bdiddy
05-12-2006, 12:25 AM
2003 - the year before Alex Gibbs went to Atlanta, Dan Reeves was HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 14th in Rushing, 1949 yards - Denver 2nd in rushing 2629 yards

2004 - Alex Gibbs arrives in Atlanta, Jim Mora is HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2672 yards - Denver 4th in Rushing 2333 yards

2005 - Kubiak in Denver, Gibbs in Atlanta
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2546 yards - Denver 2nd in Rushing 2539 yards (7 yards)
Houston 15th in Rushing 1816 yards.

FYI - Green Bay - Mike Sherman, HC
2003 - 3rd in Rushing, 2558 yards
2004 - 10th in Rushing, 1908 yards
2005 - 30th in Rushing, 1352 yards, GB lost 2 Gs Wahl & Rivera in off season and 3 RBs to injury in the regular season.

2006 - Houston, 2200 yards is a real possibilty.

I expect us to be in the top 10 in the league in rushing next year. I know this sounds very optimistic considering our offensive line woes, but look we were reasonable last year with less talent and a half-ass implementation of the zone blocking scheme.

I see the DD rushing for around 1,500 yards (assuming he stays healthy and starts at least 13 games). Morency can rush for around 500 yards in part time duty. I think Smith could rush for around 200 yards and possibly lead the team in rushing TDs as a short yardage specialist.

I would love to get Bennett. On the wide zone play in our scheme he is a homerun hitters.

Bobo
05-12-2006, 12:34 AM
2006 - Houston, 2200 yards is a real possibilty.

I think this has less to do with scheme blocking and more to do with the quality of the defense. If a team is constantly behind and has to throw the ball to catch up, then the offense will obviously not generate a lot of yards on the ground. That's what makes the Davis/Wells accomplishments so outstanding. The Texans were forced to throw the ball quite a bit due to a weak defense last year but still got some yards on the ground. Then again, folks were complaining last year that the Texans ran the ball too much.

TwinSisters
05-12-2006, 04:37 AM
1978 Patriots 3,165 1st in the NFL
1977 Patriots 2,303 6th in the NFL

That's an 800yd change without a Zone Blocking Scheme

( and still the record for most yards by a team with 16 games played )

They also did not have a marquee running back. If you can name the Running back that lead this team without looking it up or being a Patperchaun... you got skills.
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Also you are leaving out the fact that Texans have not had a healthy line from day one ( DAY one! We started with our line on IR!! crazy :sos: )

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Vick has as much to do with padding Atlanta's running game as much as Grogan did for the 78 Pats ( if not a bit more ). That might have more to do with their big boost then coaching.

What you have to look at is not Grogan vs Vick, but Grogan vs the 78 NFL and the Vick vs 2000 NFL. While Grogan would be considerbly slower then Vick, his bootleg was still watched for by 1978 teams.

TexansTrueFan
05-12-2006, 05:45 AM
didnt we switch to zone blocking scheme a few years back, well hopefully G.K can sho us what we have been doing wrong, he is an offensive mastermind, especially with RBs !

phan1
05-13-2006, 04:40 AM
I think we'll be fortunate to crack the top 10. I do believe we should be above average though. But Alex Gibbs is NOT Kubiak. I wouldn't expect nearly the same results in Houston as in Atlanta. I do expect a much better Oline overall, but to even be in the top 5 wouldn't be very realistic.

dwilt72
05-13-2006, 09:17 AM
Zone blocking scheme is in year two since we had it last year.

nunusguy
05-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Zone blocking scheme is in year two since we had it last year.
Pendry installed a hybrid ZB, which among other things didn't include the
dreaded "cut blocking" technique used by pure ZB schemes. Kubiak will be
going with the real deal that his Broncos used. As a matter of fact, Kubiak
has pretty much said the the Texans entire offense will be a carbon copy of
the offense he managed in Denver.

TwinSisters
05-13-2006, 10:30 AM
Kubiak will be going with the real deal that his Broncos used. As a matter of fact, Kubiak has pretty much said the the Texans entire offense will be a carbon copy of the offense he managed in Denver.

Where did he say this?

I am not saying that he didn't, but I want to know where he said this. I have not seen him say what he is going to do. The ony thing I found about what he said was that he was going to manage like Shanahan does, hire good guys and let them do their job.

Hookem Horns
05-13-2006, 11:31 AM
Have we lost Wells yet? Despite being turned off of him when I met him, I actually grew to like him as a player. For some reason I think he would do well in Kubiak's system.

TexanFan881
05-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Have we lost Wells yet? Despite being turned off of him when I met him, I actually grew to like him as a player. For some reason I think he would do well in Kubiak's system.

We released Wells and he's only visited with the Bills so far so if we wanted him back we can still sign him, but as of now he is a free agent. After the signing of Antowain Smith I see it very unlikely that he is on the team next year.

aj.
05-13-2006, 01:01 PM
They also did not have a marquee running back. If you can name the Running back that lead this team without looking it up or being a Patperchaun... you got skills.
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...or you're just old like me. Randall's older brother was a familiar name coming out of USC - I can still hear Howard Cosell saying "Sam Bam" on MNF halftime highlights. He was good - a straight ahead bruiser with surprisingly good hands - but he really never met the expectatons of a first round draft pick. One Pro Bowl in his best year - Earl's rookie year when the Oilers went up to Foxboro and beat them in the playoffs..

Bobo
05-13-2006, 01:03 PM
2003 - the year before Alex Gibbs went to Atlanta, Dan Reeves was HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 14th in Rushing, 1949 yards - Denver 2nd in rushing 2629 yards

2004 - Alex Gibbs arrives in Atlanta, Jim Mora is HC. Kubiak in Denver.
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2672 yards - Denver 4th in Rushing 2333 yards

2005 - Kubiak in Denver, Gibbs in Atlanta
Atlanta 1st in Rushing, 2546 yards - Denver 2nd in Rushing 2539 yards (7 yards)
Houston 15th in Rushing 1816 yards.

FYI - Green Bay - Mike Sherman, HC
2003 - 3rd in Rushing, 2558 yards
2004 - 10th in Rushing, 1908 yards
2005 - 30th in Rushing, 1352 yards, GB lost 2 Gs Wahl & Rivera in off season and 3 RBs to injury in the regular season.

2006 - Houston, 2200 yards is a real possibilty.

I don't think changing your dance steps :chicken: is going to cause that big a turnaround. The line game is really pretty simple -- just get five guys who are big enough, strong enough and quick enough to keep the other guys away from the QB.

TexanFan881
05-13-2006, 01:10 PM
I think we had a pretty good running game last year and Kubiak will just make it better. With the new O-line and new personel if we kept the same blocking scheme as last year I think we would still be very effective. I think we have players that are capable of doing a great job in the Zone Blocking scheme and this scheme will make us better, but I don't see it being very much better than what we could have done with the old scheme.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 01:15 PM
I think we had a pretty good running game last year and Kubiak will just make it better. With the new O-line and new personel if we kept the same blocking scheme as last year I think we would still be very effective. I think we have players that are capable of doing a great job in the Zone Blocking scheme and this scheme will make us better, but I don't see it being very much better than what we could have done with the old scheme.

Zone blocking is overrated. The sacks I saw occurring last year were simply where the guys just blew right past the pass protection and had nothing to do with dance steps. You need the horses and it is questionable that the horses are there at this point. The running game was fine to begin with -- the change must come in the passing protection.

clandestin
05-13-2006, 03:06 PM
Where did he say this?

I am not saying that he didn't, but I want to know where he said this. I have not seen him say what he is going to do. The ony thing I found about what he said was that he was going to manage like Shanahan does, hire good guys and let them do their job.

(on if hes doing the exact scheme they did in Denver) Were doing it exactly. The exact same things. Well teach the exact same schemes; wide zone, tight zone and do some variations off that. We wont run a lot of plays, but well do them from many, many formations.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2566&section=N%20Latest%20News

TwinSisters
05-13-2006, 06:05 PM
Ah-so .. no wonder why I missed it. I thought that article was going to be about the draft and answering for the 5,000th time why they took Mario.
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aj. I am pretty surprised you remember that back. I forgot or didn't even know that he was Randall's brother ( most likely forgot ). Anyway I was still an ankle-biter back in those days, so I didn't get anything but Houston feed to me ( not old enough to turn the page so to speak ).

Looking back on him, they ran a 3 back system with at least one HOF lineman. For that little 77-80 period, the carries are split between 3 backs and the production looked fairly even. ESP that 78 year. It couldn't have been all about injuries either, because each back has 14-16 games.

Sidenote:
( Tatupu's father was on that team! )

aj.
05-13-2006, 06:25 PM
I've been watching the NFL since the late 60's so don't be surprised. Sam "Bam" was a very recognizable name back then. A lot of it was due to his USC TV exposure.

The Pats had a couple of all world o-linemen on that team: John Hannah and Leon Gray (who later came to Houston to block for Earl).

They also had an all world tight end named Russ Francis.

Matt Hasselbeck's Dad was also on that team (Don) - he played tight end.

One of the more exciting MNF games I ever witnessed was a 1980 game with the Pats at the Dome. No defense that night.

TwinSisters
05-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Do remember watching any of their games and how they were using their running game? ( compared to the zone block )

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On a side note: I was looking at Hannah... 265. Dude would barely make it as a blocking end in today's game! I think their is something funny going on in that hybrid cornbread they grow nowadays.

Also I am glad I looked up that playoff game. 1978 vs Pats was a gimmie to the Oilers, they ( the Pats ) just fired their head coach right before the playoffs! Idiots.

aj.
05-14-2006, 12:03 AM
I don't recall specifics about their running game but I know it was nothing fancy - just power. Those were the days of sweeps and pulling guards and Hannah was one of the best. Fast and strong. Sam was definitely not a cutback kind of guy and not really a breakaway threat although when he broke through the first level, he was hard to bring down. I only vaguely remember Horace Ivory, Andy Johnson and some of their other backs. They pretty much did it by committee when they set that rushing record and it was their line play that made it all happen. Erhardt turned them into more of a passing team after Fairbanks left.

Alan Page is in the Hall of Fame as a 245 lb DT. There are LBs his size now. It was just a different era back then.