PDA

View Full Version : IF our season goes well, Kubiak will be HC & GM all in one


GP
05-11-2006, 05:10 PM
That's how I see it playing out.

He not only learned Shanahan's on-field style and philospohy...I think he's bringing to our team the capability of being HC and GM all rolled into one.

As a former Houston Oilers fan, I always despised Bill Cowher. I just couldn't stand him. Now that I look back at it, and now that I see how successful he has been and how the ownership stuck with him for so long, I can see the Texans being in the same mood: I can see Kubiak staying here for a long, long time if things play out the way I think they will.

I really think that Kubiak is going to be the next big thing. And it's only a matter of time before NFL analysts, and major media outlets, see the same thing and we'll see a slew of Kubiak articles and stories that project him as the next big thing in the NFL.

Granted, he's as capable of failing as any other...but with what you've seen in the offeseason, the draft, and now with our GM sent packing......how can you not honestly say that something special is in the making?

TexanSam
05-12-2006, 12:29 AM
I don't think he'll be the GM and HC. What would you tell the guy that was hired to be the GM? "Oh sorry, Kubiak is good enough to replace you after one year. Here's your pink slip."

Bobo
05-12-2006, 12:41 AM
That's how I see it playing out.

He not only learned Shanahan's on-field style and philospohy...I think he's bringing to our team the capability of being HC and GM all rolled into one.

As a former Houston Oilers fan, I always despised Bill Cowher. I just couldn't stand him. Now that I look back at it, and now that I see how successful he has been and how the ownership stuck with him for so long, I can see the Texans being in the same mood: I can see Kubiak staying here for a long, long time if things play out the way I think they will.

I really think that Kubiak is going to be the next big thing. And it's only a matter of time before NFL analysts, and major media outlets, see the same thing and we'll see a slew of Kubiak articles and stories that project him as the next big thing in the NFL.

Granted, he's as capable of failing as any other...but with what you've seen in the offeseason, the draft, and now with our GM sent packing......how can you not honestly say that something special is in the making?

If Cowher was the coach of the Texans and went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years like he did with the Steelers, he would have long since been fired. And I don't understand how you can say Kubiak is going to be "the next big thing" when he has never been a head coach on ANY major level. Heck, I don't even know if he was a head coach for high school -- or even Pop Warner. And you really think this guy is going to be "the next big thing" even before he is the HC for even one NFL game? I think you are deluding yourself.

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2006, 01:58 AM
I have never been a fan of that much power being yielded to one person. No matter how good Kubiak becomes he should maintain as either Coach or Front Office. No half stepping.

HJam72
05-12-2006, 03:22 AM
I can see Kubiak staying here for a long, long time

Not really disagreeing with you, but I've heard that several times lately by different posters and I just keeping thinking how we all used to say that about Capers. :thud:

I think we were wrong. :eek:

Marcus
05-12-2006, 07:04 AM
A little research here. Who's that guy that's the the HC of the Seahawks again . . I forget.:rolleyes:

Once upon a time, after he led the Packers to winning a Super Bowl, Paul Allen hired him to be both HC and GM.

Anyone care to guess what his W-L record was during that time period before Allen gave the GM position to someone else?:hmmm:

aj.
05-12-2006, 07:19 AM
If we're all-in on the Denver model, there's no reason to look any further than that.

Shanahan is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations and Head Coach. Sundquist and Smith have GM and Asst GM titles by name but they are only Player Personnel guys like Charlie was. That's what I always call weak GM.

I've been talking about the three headed monster approach here for months (Head Coach, VP of Player Personnel, VP of Negotiations and Admin,) and the VP of PP may or may not carry a GM title like Sundquist. That or a close variation of that is what I expect here.

HJam72
05-12-2006, 08:48 AM
McNair could just hire the Governor of Texas and have someone experience at that kind of job. :)

HoustonFrog
05-12-2006, 08:54 AM
If Cowher was the coach of the Texans and went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years like he did with the Steelers, he would have long since been fired. And I don't understand how you can say Kubiak is going to be "the next big thing" when he has never been a head coach on ANY major level. Heck, I don't even know if he was a head coach for high school -- or even Pop Warner. And you really think this guy is going to be "the next big thing" even before he is the HC for even one NFL game? I think you are deluding yourself.

I know you thought keeping Capers was fine but he had lost the players and there never was a 13-3 season. So you are dead wrong IMHO. If a coach can show that he can take his team to 13-3 and the playoffs and then they have a 6-10 year you can always chalk it up to injuries, bad breaks, etc. Cowher has a track record with talent and teams. We were 2-14 and in 4 years had one of the worst expansion records in NFL history. Not only that but Capers was sticking with an O coordinator who was getting us nothing and D coordinator who ran the 3-Sieve defense. Please be realistic.

HJam72
05-12-2006, 09:08 AM
Not only that but Capers was sticking with an O coordinator who was getting us nothing and D coordinator who ran the 3-Sieve defense.

Bingo. Capers doesn't know when to let his coordinators do their job or when to stop them from screwing it up. He let Fangio have free reign because he just seems to think that all DCs are completely in control and competent. He distrusted and held back Palmer because he just doen't trust offensive minded coaches. So, he replaced him with Pendry. Pendry is either an idiot or a DC coaching the wrong side of the ball. I'm not sure which--PROBABLY BOTH.

thunderkyss
05-12-2006, 09:50 AM
I have never been a fan of that much power being yielded to one person. No matter how good Kubiak becomes he should maintain as either Coach or Front Office. No half stepping.

I've never been a fan of the GM/Head coach thing either....... who is doing it, and doing it well??

Holmgren/Seattle?? How long did it take him to get that team turned around?? 6+years??

Shanahan/Denver?? they still have problems filling some key roles....... WR(I love Rod Smith, but that was luck.... I'd like to see them do that again) & CB(took them a while to get one, and they had to give up the only running back they thought highly of enough to draft in the second round) QB....... I'm a Jake Plummer fan........ but that's the best they could do??

who else is doing it??

beerlover
05-12-2006, 09:54 AM
If we're all-in on the Denver model, there's no reason to look any further than that.

Shanahan is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations and Head Coach. Sundquist and Smith have GM and Asst GM titles by name but they are only Player Personnel guys like Charlie was. That's what I always call weak GM.

I've been talking about the three headed monster approach here for months (Head Coach, VP of Player Personnel, VP of Negotiations and Admin,) and the VP of PP may or may not carry a GM title like Sundquist. That or a close variation of that is what I expect here.

another great post AJ & one I fully agree with :thumbup

McNair is big on checks and balances :money:

aj.
05-12-2006, 01:24 PM
who else is doing it??

Let me preface this by saying you need a personnel guy whether you call him a GM or VP of Player Personnel.

There's a lot of variations to how teams do it.

Shanahan is Executive VP of Football Operations and Head Coach. They have a weak GM (Sundquist) and an assistant (Smith) who run player personnel. I'm pretty sure Sundquist reports to Shanahan.

Miami has a similar arrangement with Nick Saban and Randy Mueller (player personnel guy with a GM title). Mueller reports to Saban.

New England has Scott Pioli as VP of Player Personnel (he reports to Kraft) but no GM by title. They have other VPs to handle contracts and such. I'm pretty sure Belichick reports straight into Kraft but he doesn't carry a VP or executive title.

In Seattle, Holmgren gave up GM duties a few years ago, although he remains a Executive VP of Football Operations in addition to being Head Coach. Based on title alone Tim Ruskell, as President of Football Ops may have veto power on Holmgren but I'm not sure. Ruskell oversees player personnel and reports directly to the President and CEO Jody Patten, as does Holmgren. Former Oiler Mike Reinfeldt, who works under Ruskell, is VP of Football Admin who oversees player negotiations and the cap stuff, just like Ferens does here.

Cowher has a ton of power in Pittsburgh. They don't have a GM by title, only a Director of Football Operations (Kevin Colbert), and a Pro Personnel Coordinator (Doug Whaley), who probably work for Cowher.

In Tennessee, Fisher and Reese are both Executive VPs reporting to Bud. Reese, by virtue of their org chart and his charter is what I call a strong GM (can and does overrule the Head Coach). He is also Director of Football Ops

Those are just a few examples. Everyone does it differently. If there's anything Bob McNair learned over the last four years, it's how to organize his front office so that a) it's functional, and b) he's comfortable with the distribution of power. I don't think we will see the exact Denver model here but some division of power among Kubiak, Ferens, and the new VP of Player Personnel or [weak] GM, whatever they end up calling him. What I've been saying for a long time is most similar to the New England model.

Part of it depends how much McNair wants to be involved and whether he wants one direct report from Football Operations or two or three. If he only wants one direct report, then the hire will be an Executive VP or someone else will get promoted in the process.

Double Barrel
05-12-2006, 01:33 PM
I think our head coach has enough on his hands without the added burden of GM duties. Let him take care of football, and the organization can figure out the power structure from there. Not a big fan of one man having all the power, because it is doomed to failure by spreading someone too thin.

aj.
05-12-2006, 01:38 PM
One of the points I was trying to make above is that most, if not all teams have someone responsible for player personnel. Head coaches can't do it all. It's just the reporting structure that varies. Gary needs help and will get help in that area.

Bobo
05-12-2006, 01:42 PM
Bingo. Capers doesn't know when to let his coordinators do their job or when to stop them from screwing it up. He let Fangio have free reign because he just seems to think that all DCs are completely in control and competent. He distrusted and held back Palmer because he just doen't trust offensive minded coaches. So, he replaced him with Pendry. Pendry is either an idiot or a DC coaching the wrong side of the ball. I'm not sure which--PROBABLY BOTH.

I don't know where you get the idea that firing a defensive coordinator at mid-season or getting rid of coaches period for that matter improves anything. The Texans got rid of Palmer early in the year and everybody on this board was happy about it. But the replacement for Palmer didn't do all that well either. I am just amazed how quick Texans fans pull the trigger when something doesn't go quite as well as planned. Well, if you continue to pull up the sod and replace it before it takes root, you'll never win Yard of the Month -- and you won't even get the $25 third place prize, either.

HJam72
05-12-2006, 09:37 PM
I don't think I would've wanted him to fire Fangio in mid-season, but something needed to be done. Fangio's D was too complicated. He held Palmer back and then replaced him (an average OC) with someone completely incompetent for the job. Replacing him with someone else might've been much more acceptable, but what would've been much easier would have been just letting Palmer do his job in the first place.

Pendry didn't even have enough sense to keep letting Carr call his own audibles/plays after he saw that it was working much better that way and Capers didn't stop Pendry from stopping Carr.

Ibar_Harry
05-12-2006, 09:52 PM
I don't think I would've wanted him to fire Fangio in mid-season, but something needed to be done. Fangio's D was too complicated. He held Palmer back and then replaced him (an average OC) with someone completely incompetent for the job. Replacing him with someone else might've been much more acceptable, but what would've been much easier would have been just letting Palmer do his job in the first place.

Pendry didn't even have enough sense to keep letting Carr call his own audibles/plays after he saw that it was working much better that way and Capers didn't stop Pendry from stopping Carr.

They let that happen, because they said they couldn't handle it from the sidelines for that particular team. When it was successful they were embarrased and pulled the plug. It truely was an amazing display of arrogance.

cuppacoffee
05-12-2006, 09:52 PM
I don't know where you get the idea that firing a defensive coordinator at mid-season or getting rid of coaches period for that matter improves anything. The Texans got rid of Palmer early in the year and everybody on this board was happy about it. But the replacement for Palmer didn't do all that well either. I am just amazed how quick Texans fans pull the trigger when something doesn't go quite as well as planned. Well, if you continue to pull up the sod and replace it before it takes root, you'll never win Yard of the Month -- and you won't even get the $25 third place prize, either.

If your sod hasn't taken root in four years I think you can declare it dead and replant. JMHO though.

GP
05-13-2006, 09:22 AM
If Cowher was the coach of the Texans and went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years like he did with the Steelers, he would have long since been fired. And I don't understand how you can say Kubiak is going to be "the next big thing" when he has never been a head coach on ANY major level. Heck, I don't even know if he was a head coach for high school -- or even Pop Warner. And you really think this guy is going to be "the next big thing" even before he is the HC for even one NFL game? I think you are deluding yourself.

The level of your hatred for Kubiak is just appalling. You seriously have a big problem with the guy, and it stems from your man crush on Capers. So what you say (if anybody is even reading yours at all, since you're ignored by 95% of the board) really doesn't count for much. You oppose everything anybody says because you're the type of person that thinks nobody is as smart as you are. And you make it your mission to rag on anyone in your path.

Thus, I really don't have anything to respond to your post because your post is not rooted in anything other than your motivation to flame people. For me to even dignify your post with THIS response was hard to do.

You would love it if Kubiak fails. There's a team in Florida where your daddy Capers now works. Maybe they have a message board for you to hang out at.

GP
05-13-2006, 09:26 AM
If we're all-in on the Denver model, there's no reason to look any further than that.

Shanahan is the Executive Vice President of Football Operations and Head Coach. Sundquist and Smith have GM and Asst GM titles by name but they are only Player Personnel guys like Charlie was. That's what I always call weak GM.

I've been talking about the three headed monster approach here for months (Head Coach, VP of Player Personnel, VP of Negotiations and Admin,) and the VP of PP may or may not carry a GM title like Sundquist. That or a close variation of that is what I expect here.

Exactly.

When a guy like Kubiak spends as much time in one place (Denver) and the team experiences mutliple playoff years, Super Bowl wins, etc. You tend to take a lot of that with you. You absorb what your boss has lived and taught you. Not that Kubiak would do "everything" the same way Shanahan has....but looking at how Kubiak handled the offseason, how he handled the draft, and how he handles his duties on the field...there's a good chance that Kubiak is allowed the HC & GM role.

It's more likely to happen than it is UNLIKELY to happen.

Samer
05-13-2006, 09:36 AM
Kubiak was an amazing assistant in Denver, but it's 50/50 on how he will be as a head coach. No one really knows how good or bad he will be until the team starts playing.

Hookem Horns
05-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Kubiak was an amazing assistant in Denver, but it's 50/50 on how he will be as a head coach. No one really knows how good or bad he will be until the team starts playing.

True, there is more to head coaching than bringing in a system or philosophy. You have to be a motivator as well. Whether the coach is liked by the players or not they HAVE to respect him. I think Capers was liked but not respected. The jury will be out on Kubiak for a couple of seasons.

aj.
05-13-2006, 12:38 PM
I had a chat with Dunta before the Touchdown Club dinner last week and I asked him about Kubiak in particular since he had always struck me as a bit of an introvert.

Dunta said "this (nodding toward Kubiak who was standing a few feet away) is exactly what we needed." To paraphrase: "he's re-energized the place..."

After listening to Kubiak speak twice that day, I'm convinced that he can motivate, because he motivated me - and sometimes that's not easy...

So far so good in that department, it seems, although you wouldn't expect anything different at this point. Change brings energy -- at least until the games start.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 01:00 PM
I had a chat with Dunta before the Touchdown Club dinner last week and I asked him about Kubiak in particular since he had always struck me as a bit of an introvert.

Dunta said "this (nodding toward Kubiak who was standing a few feet away) is exactly what we needed." To paraphrase: "he's re-energized the place..."

After listening to Kubiak speak twice that day, I'm convinced that he can motivate, because he motivated me - and sometimes that's not easy...

So far so good in that department, it seems, although you wouldn't expect anything different at this point. Change brings energy -- at least until the games start.

Yeah right. What else is he going to say? Kubiak really, really worries me. He has no HC experience on any level -- I don't think he was even a HS or Pop Warner head coach. His staff is just as green except for Sherman Williams and his tenure in Denver without Elway was spotty at best. His moves (musical RB for example) with FAs have been highly, highly questionable. And now, without a GM in place and McNair admittedly pretty clueless about football, Kubiak is the kid in charge of the candy factory! Like I said, unless the Texans find some way to beat either Miami at home (possible) or Jax at home (unlikely) the Texans have a good chance of losing their first nine games if you look at the sked.

Hookem Horns
05-13-2006, 01:07 PM
Yeah right. What else is he going to say? Kubiak really, really worries me. He has no HC experience on any level -- I don't think he was even a HS or Pop Warner head coach. His staff is just as green except for Sherman Williams and his tenure in Denver without Elway was spotty at best. His moves (musical RB for example) with FAs have been highly, highly questionable. And now, without a GM in place and McNair admittedly pretty clueless about football, Kubiak is the kid in charge of the candy factory! Like I said, unless the Texans find some way to beat either Miami at home (possible) or Jax at home (unlikely) the Texans have a good chance of losing their first nine games if you look at the sked.

Dunta could have just "toted the company line" or just made some general positive statement. However what is encouraging about aj's post is that he elaborated on his thought. I personally know aj and I know he is a good judge of character. If Dunta was BSing him I am sure he would have picked up on that.

BTW Bobo, are you related to Capers or something? How can you be so negative about a guy before he has even taken the field? Who did you want the Texans to hire? Another NFL retread like Capers was?

aj.
05-13-2006, 01:16 PM
Dunta could have just "toted the company line" or just made some general positive statement.

Or he could have just blown me off. He was obviously excited and very willing to talk openly about it.

If Dunta was BSing him I am sure he would have picked up on that.


If I felt Dunta was giving me company line I wouldn't have mentioned it here. He's a great guy to talk to because he's the anti-Biggio. He speaks his mind and isn't afraid to tell you how he feels. The reason why he was there was to receive an award for being the most accessible and accomodating player to the news media.

Bobo is a titans troll so I wouldn't waste a lot of energy there K.

Runner
05-13-2006, 01:20 PM
Dunta said "this (nodding toward Kubiak who was standing a few feet away) is exactly what we needed." To paraphrase: "he's re-energized the place..."



I talked to a couple players that have told me the same thing. One in particular told me after the first meeting he wanted training camp to start immediately so they could start implementing change and getting better. His feelings hadn't changed over the first few weeks of practice. Kubiak has generated excitement and a positive attitude in a team that had neither. The players I talked to are confident we'll be a better team.

We'll see how it plays out on the field - I can't wait either.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 01:20 PM
Dunta could have just "toted the company line" or just made some general positive statement. However what is encouraging about aj's post is that he elaborated on his thought. I personally know aj and I know he is a good judge of character. If Dunta was BSing him I am sure he would have picked up on that.

BTW Bobo, are you related to Capers or something? How can you be so negative about a guy before he has even taken the field? Who did you want the Texans to hire? Another NFL retread like Capers was?

Umm, he toted the company line. As far as being related to Capers, I am just as related to him as I am to Holmgren, Cowher and Paul Brown who all had bad years but were allowed to continue to coach and brought their teams back. And by asking how I can be so negative about Kubiak before he even takes the field, well, you just answered your own question. The fact is, Kubiak has never even taken the field as a head coach -- not in the NFL, nor college, no high school and maybe not even Pop Warner. And to have this guy in charge of an entire franchise at this point is scary, scary, scary -- especially since his staff is as green as he is. Your final question about who I would have hired instead of Capers? Come on! Like I said, I wouldn't have fired him in the first place. Just like I wouldn't have fired Holmgren nor Cowher nor Paul Brown.

Hookem Horns
05-13-2006, 01:25 PM
Like I said, I wouldn't have fired him in the first place. Just like I wouldn't have fired Holmgren nor Cowher nor Paul Brown.

So you were OK with the "it isn't a must win, but a must play well" attitude that Capers was instilling in his players? Sorry, Capers is a nice guy, great coordinator, but a brutal HC. The guy doesn't have the spine to demand respect from his players, that is why there was chaos. He HAD to be fired.

Also, the man is no where near the coach Cowher is. Cowher kicks tail and takes names.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 01:33 PM
So you were OK with the "it isn't a must win, but a must play well" attitude that Capers was instilling in his players? Sorry, Capers is a nice guy, great coordinator, but a brutal HC. The guy doesn't have the spine to demand respect from his players, that is why there was chaos. He HAD to be fired.

Also, the man is no where near the coach Cowher is. Cowher kicks tail and takes names.

Capers wanted to win just as much as anyone else did. But when you don't win, you've got to take away something from it and learn. And even worse, if your team loses and doesn't play hard, that is really bad. That's all Capers was doing. This garbage about "nice guy but bad HC" is old as the hills -- and simply not true. Check the stats. The guy took a team from its infancy to the cusp of 8-8 in just three years! And tell me -- what coach led his team to the best inaugural season record ever? Look it up. You think those things are qualities of "brutal head coaches" who have to be fired? And I've never seen any instance where the players never respected Capers. That's nothing but a fairytale. If you saw that team running out on the field when they were down 31-7 at halftime vs. KC last year, you would realize that this so-called "lack of respect" isn't true whatsoever. They were full of fire and hyped up. As for Cowher, I will point out to you that his team went from 13-3 to 6-10 in just two years. That was a far, far bigger regression than Capers ever experienced.

Exascor
05-13-2006, 01:59 PM
As for Cowher, I will point out to you that his team went from 13-3 to 6-10 in just two years. That was a far, far bigger regression than Capers ever experienced.Did you watch the Texans last year? Regression isn't all about wins/losses. It's also about how your team performs. The Texans were horrible. Worst NFL team I've ever watched. Worse than our expansion year. I liked Capers but it was time for him to go.

edo783
05-13-2006, 03:21 PM
PEOPLE, this duffus BoBo is a Titan TROLL. All he is doing is taking the pro Capers anti Kubiack stance just to lite your fires. STOP feeding the TROLL.

sharkbait
05-13-2006, 03:32 PM
PEOPLE, this duffus BoBo is a Titan TROLL. All he is doing is taking the pro Capers anti Kubiack stance just to lite your fires. STOP feeding the TROLL.

Before we started feeding the troll, we were talking about Kubiack being HC and GM. My question is, does Kubiack want to be both?

Bobo
05-13-2006, 04:02 PM
PEOPLE, this duffus BoBo is a Titan TROLL. All he is doing is taking the pro Capers anti Kubiack stance just to lite your fires. STOP feeding the TROLL.

The only thing I see are insults ("duffus") and blatant untruths. If you would read through my posts, I have said many, MANY negative things about the Titans. I didn't like them when they were the Oilers, didn't like them as the Titans. Now, would a "Titan troll" say that about their beloved team? Now, back to the issue at hand: Refusal to deal with specific points of my posts has been duly noted.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 04:03 PM
Before we started feeding the troll, we were talking about Kubiack being HC and GM. My question is, does Kubiack want to be both?

So if an inexperienced guy who was never a head coach ANYWHERE wants two jobs when he hasn't even been the head coach of a Pop Warner team you are just going to even consider this? Tsk, tsk.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 04:07 PM
Did you watch the Texans last year? Regression isn't all about wins/losses. It's also about how your team performs. The Texans were horrible. Worst NFL team I've ever watched. Worse than our expansion year. I liked Capers but it was time for him to go.

You really, really should look at the thing as a whole. I have said this before and I'll say it again. The Texans beat the Steelers and Cowher's team was 6-10. They had fallen way, way off. And to be beaten by a young team like the Texans, well, that was an indication of how bad that team was performing. The Steelers were horrible. One of the worst teams they had in years. Using your logic, you would have fired Cowher. If you compared what Cowher had to work with to what Capers had, Capers did a better job than Cowher. But then again, seems to me you would have fired both of them.

swtbound07
05-13-2006, 04:28 PM
So if an inexperienced guy who was never a head coach ANYWHERE wants two jobs when he hasn't even been the head coach of a Pop Warner team you are just going to even consider this? Tsk, tsk.


How does one get experience as a head coach if not given a head coaching position?

Bobo
05-13-2006, 05:01 PM
How does one get experience as a head coach if not given a head coaching position?

Go up to the head of the local Pop Warner league and ask. They are hurting for coaches, and it certainly would have helped Kubiak's resume.

Exascor
05-13-2006, 05:36 PM
And to be beaten by a young team like the Texans, well, that was an indication of how bad that team was performing. The Steelers were horrible. One of the worst teams they had in years.The Texans were the luckiest team in football that day. We had the worst offense in football and managed to get some turnovers to win the game. Sure, the Steelers had a bad season, but they recovered in one season. Capers had 4 years to build a team and failed. Year 4 was so bad it cost him his job. If he could have pulled a 9-7 record in year 3 then maybe I'd give him some slack but he didn't. Close games were lost, teams came from behind to beat us and we lost every overtime game (iirc) that season. We underachieved to get to 7-9 and that's why we lost players like Sharper and Glenn. They wanted a change and it was a year to early for Mcnair to bail on Capers.
Using your logic, you would have fired Cowher.
My logic stays true. I wouldn't have fired Cowher because he had one bad season. Capers had 4 and the 4th was the worst. Expansion team or not, time was up.

swtbound07
05-13-2006, 05:37 PM
How exactly does sheparding around a bunch of 5 year olds prepare you more for the NFL then being an assistant coach for you know...real nfl players.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 06:10 PM
How exactly does sheparding around a bunch of 5 year olds prepare you more for the NFL then being an assistant coach for you know...real nfl players.

Umm, the point is, he doesn't even have THAT head coaching experience!

Bobo
05-13-2006, 06:13 PM
My logic stays true. I wouldn't have fired Cowher because he had one bad season. Capers had 4 and the 4th was the worst. Expansion team or not, time was up.

You must be joking, right? You believe that 4-12, 5-11 and 7-9 for an expansion team are bad seasons? Especially when you take into account the fact that Capers had nothing to work with but a bunch of NFL rejects and green rookies? Either you're joking or trolling or you know nothing about expansion franchises.

Exascor
05-13-2006, 06:32 PM
You must be joking, right? You believe that 4-12, 5-11 and 7-9 for an expansion team are bad seasons? Especially when you take into account the fact that Capers had nothing to work with but a bunch of NFL rejects and green rookies? Either you're joking or trolling or you know nothing about expansion franchises.Nice. Bobo accusing ME of trolling. hehe

I understand expansion teams enough to know that the Texans had progressed fine through the first 3 seasons. I knew enough to give them my patience. I also know enough about them to know that the Texans haven't been close to setting any positive records for expansion franchises. We tolerated poor play with the "expansion" excuse for the first 3 years. Year 4 wasn't a fluke. It was an implosion. Sorry you think that is was only a little speed bump.

You seem to be blinded to last seasons complete failure. It's not like Capers had the team performing well but still losing. They were playing horribly and losing. Big difference.

Some of Capers trademarks were a strong defense, power running game, discipline and organization. He failed to produce any of those in year 4.

Last time here-I like Capers but it was time for him to go.

RTP2110
05-13-2006, 06:33 PM
You must be joking, right? You believe that 4-12, 5-11 and 7-9 for an expansion team are bad seasons? Especially when you take into account the fact that Capers had nothing to work with but a bunch of NFL rejects and green rookies? Either you're joking or trolling or you know nothing about expansion franchises.

Hmm, forget about 2-14?

mancunian
05-13-2006, 07:43 PM
That's how I see it playing out.

He not only learned Shanahan's on-field style and philospohy...I think he's bringing to our team the capability of being HC and GM all rolled into one.

As a former Houston Oilers fan, I always despised Bill Cowher. I just couldn't stand him. Now that I look back at it, and now that I see how successful he has been and how the ownership stuck with him for so long, I can see the Texans being in the same mood: I can see Kubiak staying here for a long, long time if things play out the way I think they will.

I really think that Kubiak is going to be the next big thing. And it's only a matter of time before NFL analysts, and major media outlets, see the same thing and we'll see a slew of Kubiak articles and stories that project him as the next big thing in the NFL.

Granted, he's as capable of failing as any other...but with what you've seen in the offeseason, the draft, and now with our GM sent packing......how can you not honestly say that something special is in the making?

Give me one example where thats worked? Holmgren was both at Seatltle and they got better when he had the GM role taken off him.

mancunian
05-13-2006, 07:45 PM
I've never been a fan of the GM/Head coach thing either....... who is doing it, and doing it well??

Holmgren/Seattle?? How long did it take him to get that team turned around?? 6+years??

Shanahan/Denver?? they still have problems filling some key roles....... WR(I love Rod Smith, but that was luck.... I'd like to see them do that again) & CB(took them a while to get one, and they had to give up the only running back they thought highly of enough to draft in the second round) QB....... I'm a Jake Plummer fan........ but that's the best they could do??

who else is doing it??

Wasn't Sherman both at the Packers for a while?

Bobo
05-13-2006, 08:29 PM
Hmm, forget about 2-14?

Of course I didn't forget 2-14. Point is, the poster said he had four bad years and that's a rather ridiculous statement to make, seeing that he took the team to the cusp of .500 in just three years. Oh! And I see that you failed to deal with my points regarding Capers accomplishments! Duly noted.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 08:39 PM
Nice. Bobo accusing ME of trolling. hehe

I understand expansion teams enough to know that the Texans had progressed fine through the first 3 seasons. I knew enough to give them my patience. I also know enough about them to know that the Texans haven't been close to setting any positive records for expansion franchises. We tolerated poor play with the "expansion" excuse for the first 3 years. Year 4 wasn't a fluke. It was an implosion. Sorry you think that is was only a little speed bump.

You seem to be blinded to last seasons complete failure. It's not like Capers had the team performing well but still losing. They were playing horribly and losing. Big difference.

Some of Capers trademarks were a strong defense, power running game, discipline and organization. He failed to produce any of those in year 4.

Last time here-I like Capers but it was time for him to go.

A.) Saying Capers had four bad years is so ridiculous, the best you can say about it is trolling. B.) As far as characterizing year four as an implosion, you could say the very same thing about the Steelers under Cowher when the went from 13-3 to 6-10. C.) The Steelers were playing horribly and losing during their 6-10 season as well. Heck, even the expansion Texans beat them. But the Steelers didn't fire him. They displayed patience and looked for continuity, traits that apparently neither the Texans FO or the fans in general know much about. D.) Oh, I'm not blinded to the 2-14 debacle. But I'm also not blinded to Holmgren's bad season as well as Cowher's and Paul Brown's. Of course, all these teams bounced back and experienced success -- under the same coaches. I believe the Texans could have experienced the same renaissance. Instead, they pulled off a monumental blunder by bringing in an inexperienced assistant coach who never was a HC on any major level -- maybe not even in Pop Warner. Now the Texans continue the blunder by allowing him to basically be the only football guy in the organization. What kind of sense does it make to allow an inexperienced coach who has an inexperienced staff free reign over the football team without any kind of check? This team looks like it's headed for a fall for many years -- and they'll wonder why when it's as clear as the noses on their faces.

swtbound07
05-13-2006, 09:09 PM
A.) Saying Capers had four bad years is so ridiculous, the best you can say about it is trolling. B.) As far as characterizing year four as an implosion, you could say the very same thing about the Steelers under Cowher when the went from 13-3 to 6-10. C.) The Steelers were playing horribly and losing during their 6-10 season as well. Heck, even the expansion Texans beat them. But the Steelers didn't fire him. They displayed patience and looked for continuity, traits that apparently neither the Texans FO or the fans in general know much about. D.) Oh, I'm not blinded to the 2-14 debacle. But I'm also not blinded to Holmgren's bad season as well as Cowher's and Paul Brown's. Of course, all these teams bounced back and experienced success -- under the same coaches. I believe the Texans could have experienced the same renaissance. Instead, they pulled off a monumental blunder by bringing in an inexperienced assistant coach who never was a HC on any major level -- maybe not even in Pop Warner. Now the Texans continue the blunder by allowing him to basically be the only football guy in the organization. What kind of sense does it make to allow an inexperienced coach who has an inexperienced staff free reign over the football team without any kind of check? This team looks like it's headed for a fall for many years -- and they'll wonder why when it's as clear as the noses on their faces.


A sub .500 year is bad. Capers had 4 bad years. Perhaps you were thrilled with his record, but we are not. Having 3 seasons where you cant crack the SIX win barrier is not an abberation. It is also wrong of you to call Kubiak a blunder with his first game not under his belt yet. Who would you rather they have hired? Oh wait, you would rather have weathered the 2-14 storm with capers, in hopes that he could return us to our 5-11 2003 glory.

Zo Mourning
05-13-2006, 10:09 PM
That is a great idea having Kubiac as HC/GM.

Bobo
05-13-2006, 10:42 PM
A sub .500 year is bad. Capers had 4 bad years. Perhaps you were thrilled with his record, but we are not. Having 3 seasons where you cant crack the SIX win barrier is not an abberation. It is also wrong of you to call Kubiak a blunder with his first game not under his belt yet. Who would you rather they have hired? Oh wait, you would rather have weathered the 2-14 storm with capers, in hopes that he could return us to our 5-11 2003 glory.

What are you talking about? The best an expansion team ever did in its first year was 7-9 -- a record Capers accomplished, by the way. To say that you expect the coach of an expansion team to win right away is beyond belief and ludicrous. In regards to Kubiak, you once again have proven my point by pointing out the fact that he hasn't even had a game "under his belt" where he was the head coach. Oh, yes. Kubiak was indeed a blunder. And it keeps getting worse.

GP
05-13-2006, 11:00 PM
Give me one example where thats worked? Holmgren was both at Seatltle and they got better when he had the GM role taken off him.

Shanahan, if I am not mistaken, is the guy who really wields the player personnel decisions. He gets who he wants.

Parcells also wields about the same amount of power. He said he wouldn't come back unless the Cowboys "let him buy the ingredients if he was going to cook the meal...." Remember that quote? And last time I checked, since Parcells came to the Cowboys...they have done better than Chan Gailey, Second-year Switzer, etc. That team was a wreck before Parcells came to them. They're not world beaters yet (no pun intended) but they're on track.

So, yeah...I think some guys do it well.

GP
05-13-2006, 11:03 PM
What are you talking about? The best an expansion team ever did in its first year was 7-9 -- a record Capers accomplished, by the way. To say that you expect the coach of an expansion team to win right away is beyond belief and ludicrous. In regards to Kubiak, you once again have proven my point by pointing out the fact that he hasn't even had a game "under his belt" where he was the head coach. Oh, yes. Kubiak was indeed a blunder. And it keeps getting worse.

I think I finally figured it out. Bobo, you're my dad....I knew that was you, you grumpy old fart. How the heck ya' been? Still grumpy after all these years.

Seriously, you're ragging on us for pointing out a very sub-par Capers regime....and yet you bomb the guy (Kubiak) relentlessly who has done a better job of off-season moves than Capers EVER did in all four seasons at Houston COMBINED.

The hits just keep on coming...........:whip:

Bobo
05-14-2006, 12:02 AM
I think I finally figured it out. Bobo, you're my dad....I knew that was you, you grumpy old fart. How the heck ya' been? Still grumpy after all these years.

Seriously, you're ragging on us for pointing out a very sub-par Capers regime....and yet you bomb the guy (Kubiak) relentlessly who has done a better job of off-season moves than Capers EVER did in all four seasons at Houston COMBINED.

The hits just keep on coming...........:whip:

Your post wasn't very funny, nor was it informative, nor was it topical. Besides, sounds to me like you have issues. Seriously.

swtbound07
05-14-2006, 01:16 AM
What are you talking about? The best an expansion team ever did in its first year was 7-9 -- a record Capers accomplished, by the way. To say that you expect the coach of an expansion team to win right away is beyond belief and ludicrous. In regards to Kubiak, you once again have proven my point by pointing out the fact that he hasn't even had a game "under his belt" where he was the head coach. Oh, yes. Kubiak was indeed a blunder. And it keeps getting worse.


Thats a bit disingenuous dont you think? The best an expansion team ever did in its first year was 7-9. True

Capers did post a 7-9 record. Also true

Juxtaposing those two statements together makes it appear as if capers went 7-9 in his first year, which he did not.

Every expansion team in the history of the NFL has had at least one .500 season with the exception of the houston texans under capers leadership. THAT is true.

As far as your nonsensical post about kubiak. You have ABSOLUTELY no idea how kubiak will do. None. Unless you've got some magic crystal ball, you can be wrong. People were saying you cant start a rookie quarterback and win games. Rothlisberger broke that stereotype. Kubiak can be successfull. Will he be? Heck if i know. However, condemning him because he hasnt been a head coach before is willfull ignorance. What about the other 8 teams in the NFL being run by coordinators turned head coaches? Are they all doomed to failure too? or is it just Kubiak that you hold a grudge for.

aj.
05-14-2006, 08:15 AM
Every expansion team in the history of the NFL has had at least one .500 season with the exception of the houston texans under capers leadership. THAT is true.


With the benefit of time, everyone eventually gets there.

Denver didn't see a .500 season until its 14th year
New Orleans didn't see a .500 season until its 13th year
Atlanta didn't see a .500 season until its 6th year
Miami didn't see a .500 season until its 5th year

Argue the definition of expansion team if you want (Miami (AFL), New Orleans and Atlanta were all expansion teams - Denver was a charter AFL entrant), but the four teams I mention started at the same place the Texans did - at ground zero - yes, in an era prior to free agency but also with no expansion draft kick start either.

GP
05-14-2006, 05:58 PM
Your post wasn't very funny, nor was it informative, nor was it topical. Besides, sounds to me like you have issues. Seriously.

No, the guy who can't find anything positive to say about Kubiak has problems. I can understand a few weeks, or heck....even a few months...of hating Kubiak since Capers is your pal and all. But to keep on this downward spiral with all the energy you can muster, well...it's just sad.

Add to it that you have not ONE funny bone in your body, the fact that you can't loosen up for even a second, makes me actually feel sorry for you.

Quit being such a Doug Downer and just...let...it...go. Capers is gone. The Texans are still in Houston, and your allegiance is so far from this team right now that it makes me shake my head.

Go TEXANS.

TwinSisters
05-14-2006, 06:19 PM
forget about a .500 season. Ties are not good.

Don't make me whip the Bear Bryant out...

Playoffs are the goal. Why? because it makes the season worth it. Make it to the playoffs and anything can happen, don't make it to the playoffs and nothing will happen. In a 4 team division this should not be such a big hassle.

Nothing except getting a crap drafting slot.