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texanfan2100
05-11-2006, 12:53 PM
From Andrew Perloff of cnnsi.com:

Eric Moulds, Texans: Is anyone paying attention in Houston? Either the offensive line can't block or quarterback David Carr stinks. Either way, the Texans didn't fix the problem and adding a receiver won't help. Predicted Production: 55 catches, 800 yards.

I wish writers would do their homework once in a while instead of harping on the same things since year one. And, the last time I checked, adding Moulds just might help David Carr. So I guess adding a receiver might help after all.:rolleyes: Wow, it seems this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Kaiser Toro
05-11-2006, 12:55 PM
From Andrew Perloff of cnnsi.com:

Eric Moulds, Texans: Is anyone paying attention in Houston? Either the offensive line can't block or quarterback David Carr stinks. Either way, the Texans didn't fix the problem and adding a receiver won't help. Predicted Production: 55 catches, 800 yards.

I wish writers would do their homework once in a while instead of harping on the same things since year one. And, the last time I checked, adding Moulds just might help David Carr. So I guess adding a receiver might help after all. Wow, it seems this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Yeah, adding an All Pro WR as your #2 never helps against defenses. :rolleyes:

SAMURAITEXAN
05-11-2006, 12:59 PM
Here's my reaction to Andrew Perloff.
_| ̄|○ ε=_| ̄|○ _| ̄|・;∵..-=≡○    

Double Barrel
05-11-2006, 01:06 PM
Well, everyone knows Andrew Perloff is.....is....ummmm...who the eff is Andrew Perloff again? :um:

As much as I try to care what this nobody thinks of our team....I....just...can't...seem...to...give....a. ..hoot.

Blake
05-11-2006, 01:33 PM
So, resigning McKinney, signing Flanigan, and drafting Winston, and Spencer is the Texans NOT trying to fix the problem?

TexanFan881
05-11-2006, 01:50 PM
We drafted 2 O-lineman in the third round and got mike flanagan along with Mike Sherman and our passing oline is still going to be horrible? Writers need to do some research before they start predicting things.

Hulk75
05-11-2006, 02:06 PM
Yeah, adding an All Pro WR as your #2 never helps against defenses. :rolleyes:
Yea no kidding.:rolleyes:

whiskeyrbl
05-11-2006, 02:25 PM
They're all just crying because our FO made them look stupid when we didn't draft their "No way they don't draft" Bush. It's just another angle to rip our team. I just hope it is our team that rips through the NFL to a respectful record and shuts up all these know it alls.:mario:

ComstockLode
05-11-2006, 02:26 PM
I am going to take the other side of this. It doesnt mean I believe it, I am just going to explain why someone may think our offense will be bad again.

If David Carr isnt a good QB, we should find out this year. I am personally 50-50 on if he will have a good season this year.

And yes adding two 3rd round offensive linemen is trying to upgrade. Something that should have been done 3 years ago. Generally speaking, 3rd round offensive linemen dont come in as starters and become good offensive linemen their first year. Hell, generally first rounders dont even do that. Generally there is a learning curve, and the hardest thing to adjust to is the speed of the pass rushers. It is unfair to expect much the first year out of 3rd rounders to begin with.

whiskeyrbl
05-11-2006, 02:30 PM
But if you remember none of the experts had Winston as a third rounder he was "projected" mid to late first round or early second.So I think it is possible he steps right in.

Runner
05-11-2006, 02:43 PM
Generally speaking, 3rd round offensive linemen dont just in as starters and become good offensive linemen their first year. Generally there is a learning curve, and the hardest thing to adjust to is the speed of the pass rushers. It is unfair to expect much the first year out of 3rd rounders to begin with.

Good point.

This is a point I tried to make pre-draft a couple of times - draft euphoria can make fans think the picks are better players than they are. This is exacerbated by the fact that many pay more attention to the strengths part of a scouting report than to the weaknesses section.

A good example of this is projecting Spencer as a first year starter at LT as I've seen on other threads. I think that is highly unlikely, because his scouting report actually uses the word raw in its description. He is hardly NFL ready, no matter what his upside is.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/og/charlesspencer.html

Runner
05-11-2006, 02:48 PM
But if you remember none of the experts had Winston as a third rounder he was "projected" mid to late first round or early second.So I think it is possible he steps right in.

Unless the "experts" were wrong. Every team in the league passed on him in the first two rounds. Is that all about his knee, or did the experts have him rated too high?

He will be one of the players that will be interesting to watch during camp. Maybe we did get a steal.

As an aside, kudos to the draft team. A lot of people thought we should have taken him in the second round as you stated; the front office knew their stuff on that pick. It's almost like the fans got two first picks in the second round, if you know what I mean.

ComstockLode
05-11-2006, 04:28 PM
Good point.

This is a point I tried to make pre-draft a couple of times - draft euphoria can make fans think the picks are better players than they are. This is exacerbated by the fact that many pay more attention to the strengths part of a scouting report than to the weaknesses section.

A good example of this is projecting Spencer as a first year starter at LT as I've seen on other threads. I think that is highly unlikely, because his scouting report actually uses the word raw in its description. He is hardly NFL ready, no matter what his upside is.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/og/charlesspencer.html

Exactly. It would not be very bright to start Spencer at LT considering he has only two years off and on at that position in his career. And his senior season wasnt all that great from what I understand. He was drafted based on his raw potential, and those type guys generally dont step in and start at the hardest offensive line position in the NFL.

Heck, one of his weaknesses is handling speed rushers. Could you imagine him matching up against dwight freeney?

GP
05-11-2006, 04:44 PM
Exactly. It would not be very bright to start Spencer at LT considering he has only two years off and on at that position in his career. And his senior season wasnt all that great from what I understand. He was drafted based on his raw potential, and those type guys generally dont step in and start at the hardest offensive line position in the NFL.

Heck, one of his weaknesses is handling speed rushers. Could you imagine him matching up against dwight freeney?

Signing Flanagan was the key for the outside rush to get handled better.

IMO, the surge up the middle by defenders caused our whole line to suck in and help contain against David getting harassed from the middle...which then caused the outside edges to get tighter and thus make it easier for a defensive end to cut the corner faster to get to David.

Thus, we sign a tough-as-nails center who has been a rock for Favre...and I think things will become much simpler for our whole offensive line. Those guys were out of place under Capers, and now we're going to see a better line.

Flanagan was, IMO, the BEST offseason acquisition we've had...other than Kubiak himself.

I haven't been this jazzed about Texans football since the team took the field for the first time. We're going to round the corner, fellas.

Meloy
05-11-2006, 04:46 PM
Unless the "experts" were wrong. Every team in the league passed on him in the first two rounds. Is that all about his knee, or did the experts have him rated too high?

He will be one of the players that will be interesting to watch during camp. Maybe we did get a steal.

As an aside, kudos to the draft team. A lot of people thought we should have taken him in the second round as you stated; the front office knew their stuff on that pick. It's almost like the fans got two first picks in the second round, if you know what I mean. I would be embarassed to say how far I flung the draft paperwork I had on my lap when Winston was available @ 2nd pick & we selected a linebacker. I yelled, " What about the left tackle every one has been crying about for 3 years?" Demeco is a great pick, I just thought OT should have been addressed. I was bowing to the "draft team" a few minutes into the 3rd round. Proof positive that I should not give up my day job...

Runner
05-11-2006, 04:51 PM
Signing Flanagan was the key for the outside rush to get handled better.

IMO, the surge up the middle by defenders caused our whole line to suck in and help contain against David getting harassed from the middle...which then caused the outside edges to get tighter and thus make it easier for a defensive end to cut the corner faster to get to David.



I re-read some of this and I need to clarify something - I was agreeing with the point that counting on rookie 3rd round lineman to be effective starters is a reach.

However, I too believe that we have turned a corner and will be very much improved across the roster, including the o-line. Flanagan at center with decent guards next to him certainly helps the tackles.

I also believe that Wand is our starting LT from here on out, and that he will be a good one. I may have mentioned this on the board somewhere before.

GP
05-11-2006, 04:58 PM
I would be embarassed to say how far I flung the draft paperwork I had on my lap when Winston was available @ 2nd pick & we selected a linebacker. I yelled, " What about the left tackle every one has been crying about for 3 years?" Demeco is a great pick, I just thought OT should have been addressed. I was bowing to the "draft team" a few minutes into the 3rd round. Proof positive that I should not give up my day job...

Don't be so hard on yourself.

I got to admit that it took a good set of stones for our draft team to gamble that Winston and/or Spencer would still be there after we picked Demeco.

That was big time game. BIG TIME. That's the kind of stuff that Casserly wouldn't do, he'd have pulled the trigger on Winston...and then we'd have reached for a LB that was nowhere near the talent level of a Demeco.

BattleRedGuy
05-11-2006, 06:22 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I would be happy with 55 for 800 from Moulds this season.

GP
05-11-2006, 07:29 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I would be happy with 55 for 800 from Moulds this season.

EXACTLY!

here's a link to a former Texans WR's stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306271

He gained an average of about 450-500 yds. per season with us, over a four-year span, and never had more than 50-something catches in a season.

So, yeah....I'll take 55 and 800. That's 300 more yards than you-know-who...a guy that was supposed to be the No. 2 WR for us, and we know what happened with that. What can Moulds do with an extra 300 yards a season? Prolly score an extra TD or two, eh?

It's open season for the media on the Texans already.

TexanFan881
05-11-2006, 07:52 PM
EXACTLY!

here's a link to a former Texans WR's stats http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/306271

He gained an average of about 450-500 yds. per season with us, over a four-year span, and never had more than 50-something catches in a season.

So, yeah....I'll take 55 and 800. That's 300 more yards than you-know-who...a guy that was supposed to be the No. 2 WR for us, and we know what happened with that. What can Moulds do with an extra 300 yards a season? Prolly score an extra TD or two, eh?

It's open season for the media on the Texans already.

Good point. I expect next year that we get 1200 yards out of AJ and imagine if Eric got 800. That's pretty good considering most teams don't have two recievers with over 1000 yards. I just can't wait to see AJ and Eric out on the field and how defenses react to there explosiveness.

Akhorahil
05-11-2006, 11:01 PM
theres are huge problems with that Gaffney arguement.... 1 is coaching..... weve got new ones if you didnt notice.... and Im pretty sure they will do a better job pass blocking this year.... the new center, added depth... its not so bad...

but forget all that..... you didnt ask yourself this very important question....
WHY?

Why only 50 some odd catches???? Could it be because he dropped the ball..... alot.... easily catchable balls..... all alone by himself and he drops the ball.... all the freakn time.... its known.... even by BSPN..... you'd think Texan fans would know that by now....

basing what Moulds will do on Gaffney's production..... its just wrong in so many ways.... and its sad.... I mean... as covered as A.J. has been since day one in the league.... and the guy only caught 50 some odd passes?

but that 55 receptions 800 yards is certainly a good guess... considering he had 81 receptions 816 yards last year.... if 800 yards receiving for a number 2 WR isnt producing..... what is? can you explain that one? anyone?

Wolf
05-11-2006, 11:23 PM
theres are huge problems with that Gaffney arguement.... 1 is coaching..... weve got new ones if you didnt notice.... and Im pretty sure they will do a better job pass blocking this year.... the new center, added depth... its not so bad...

but forget all that..... you didnt ask yourself this very important question....
WHY?

Why only 50 some odd catches???? Could it be because he dropped the ball..... alot.... easily catchable balls..... all alone by himself and he drops the ball.... all the freakn time.... its known.... even by BSPN..... you'd think Texan fans would know that by now....

basing what Moulds will do on Gaffney's production..... its just wrong in so many ways.... and its sad.... I mean... as covered as A.J. has been since day one in the league.... and the guy only caught 50 some odd passes?

but that 55 receptions 800 yards is certainly a good guess... considering he had 81 receptions 816 yards last year.... if 800 yards receiving for a number 2 WR isnt producing..... what is? can you explain that one? anyone?


i'll look it up, but I thought I read somewhere or seen stats about Gaffney and he didn't drop many balls and if he did , it was nothing like our other receivers dropped

Akhorahil
05-12-2006, 01:16 AM
didnt drop a pass? nooooo.... maybe he went thru one game without doing it... but he surely dropped alot of passes last year....
here I found it..

http://www.footballguys.com/GaffJa00-2.php

Gaffney dropped 35 passes last year.... but for the record... Moulds dropped 38.... of course.... Moulds was thrown the ball 39 more times than Gaffney.... and over 300 more yards....

believe it or not.... Moulds is coming to a team with a better QB than the team he left.... you can pick either one of the QBs that played for Buffalo last year on that one.... I mean... they really were lucky to win 5 games last year.... I know its something you dont think about.... and its actually kinda sad... but thats just the way I look at it...

Wolf
05-12-2006, 01:24 AM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php

that is what I was looking at and it referred to incomplete passes to him not dropped passes.

it probably came out to the same percentage.. which is 61% and armstrong is the only one higher (sorry AJ /bradford)

Wolf
05-12-2006, 01:27 AM
didnt drop a pass? nooooo.... maybe he went thru one game without doing it... but he surely dropped alot of passes last year....
here I found it..

http://www.footballguys.com/GaffJa00-2.php

Gaffney dropped 35 passes last year.... but for the record... Moulds dropped 38.... of course.... Moulds was thrown the ball 39 more times than Gaffney.... and over 300 more yards....

believe it or not.... Moulds is coming to a team with a better QB than the team he left.... you can pick either one of the QBs that played for Buffalo last year on that one.... I mean... they really were lucky to win 5 games last year.... I know its something you dont think about.... and its actually kinda sad... but thats just the way I look at it...

in all fairness the 35 that is shown on that game by game log.. doesn't mean dropped passes.. it was targeted to him.. I mean was the throw high /low knocked down?

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2006, 01:27 AM
didnt drop a pass? nooooo.... maybe he went thru one game without doing it... but he surely dropped alot of passes last year....
here I found it..

http://www.footballguys.com/GaffJa00-2.php

Gaffney dropped 35 passes last year.... but for the record... Moulds dropped 38.... of course.... Moulds was thrown the ball 39 more times than Gaffney.... and over 300 more yards....

believe it or not.... Moulds is coming to a team with a better QB than the team he left.... you can pick either one of the QBs that played for Buffalo last year on that one.... I mean... they really were lucky to win 5 games last year.... I know its something you dont think about.... and its actually kinda sad... but thats just the way I look at it...

Appreciate the research, but make sure you understand what you are positioning. He was the target for 90 passes and caught 55. That does not mean he dropped 35 balls.

Bobo
05-12-2006, 01:36 AM
From Andrew Perloff of cnnsi.com:

Eric Moulds, Texans: Is anyone paying attention in Houston? Either the offensive line can't block or quarterback David Carr stinks. Either way, the Texans didn't fix the problem and adding a receiver won't help. Predicted Production: 55 catches, 800 yards.

I wish writers would do their homework once in a while instead of harping on the same things since year one. And, the last time I checked, adding Moulds just might help David Carr. So I guess adding a receiver might help after all.:rolleyes: Wow, it seems this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

So if some guy isn't waving the pom-poms then you don't think he knows what he's talking about. :crying: Seems to me you should be very, very happy if Moulds actually does this well.

Bobo
05-12-2006, 01:44 AM
Yeah, adding an All Pro WR

Umm, that was five years ago -- before the Texans had even played their first game! :hairpull:

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2006, 01:54 AM
Umm, that was five years ago -- before the Texans had even played their first game! :hairpull:

Convenient quoting, is the Daily Show hiring?

Akhorahil
05-12-2006, 02:32 AM
Appreciate the research, but make sure you understand what you are positioning. He was the target for 90 passes and caught 55. That does not mean he dropped 35 balls.


your right... I mistyped....I shouldnt have said 35 drops... but 35 missed opportunities... but Im not exactly alone in this whole dropping passes thing.... heres ESPN's scouting report on Gaffney.

"He is an excellent route runner -smooth getting in and out of his cuts. While he is not a blazer, he does have very good quickness and can lull a defender to sleep because he does not look like he is moving very fast. He is a smart receiver that excels at reading coverages. He will drop catch-able balls. He will make bone-head plays like where he had a chance to score on a reverse but was hot-dogging with the ball and fumbled it out of the end zone. He does not play to his 4.49 speed and struggles to consistently separate vs. man coverage. He is not physical or tough as a player - plays soft at times and does not like contact."

I know using BSPN to back up your stance in this town is almost a sin..... but when they are right.... what can you do???..... sigh... I always liked Gaffney.... but I knew his weaknesses....

Bobo
05-12-2006, 02:38 AM
Convenient quoting, is the Daily Show hiring?

Um, the point was that he was an All-Pro -- five years ago. Please ... don't think everything you write is important enough to quote.

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2006, 02:43 AM
Um, the point was that he was an All-Pro -- five years ago. Please ... don't think everything you write is important enough to quote.

Get some baby powder on that red arse will ya. You know what I am talking about, you just choose to project your weak point onto me.

Kaiser Toro
05-12-2006, 02:46 AM
your right... I mistyped....I shouldnt have said 35 drops... but 35 missed opportunities... but Im not exactly alone in this whole dropping passes thing.... heres ESPN's scouting report on Gaffney.

"He is an excellent route runner -smooth getting in and out of his cuts. While he is not a blazer, he does have very good quickness and can lull a defender to sleep because he does not look like he is moving very fast. He is a smart receiver that excels at reading coverages. He will drop catch-able balls. He will make bone-head plays like where he had a chance to score on a reverse but was hot-dogging with the ball and fumbled it out of the end zone. He does not play to his 4.49 speed and struggles to consistently separate vs. man coverage. He is not physical or tough as a player - plays soft at times and does not like contact."

I know using BSPN to back up your stance in this town is almost a sin..... but when they are right.... what can you do???..... sigh... I always liked Gaffney.... but I knew his weaknesses....

Rank Name Team Games Drops
1 LaMont Jordan OAK 14 12
2 Eddie Kennison KC 16 10
T-3 Antonio Gates SD 15 9
T-3 Chad Johnson CIN 16 9
5 Chris Chambers MIA 16 8
T-6 Drew Bennett TEN 13 7
T-6 Antonio Bryant SF 16 7
T-6 Laveranues Coles NYJ 16 7
T-6 Justin McCareins NYJ 16 7
T-6 Jerry Porter OAK 16 7
T-6 Ernest Wilford JAC 16 7
T-12 Marty Booker MIA 15 6
T-12 Deion Branch NE 16 6
T-12 David Givens TEN 13 6
T-12 Dante Hall KC 16 6
T-12 Erron Kinney TEN 14 6
T-12 Jimmy Smith JAC 16 6
T-18 Ronnie Brown MIA 15 5
T-18 Tony Gonzalez KC 16 5
T-18 Todd Heap BAL 16 5
T-18 Andre Johnson HOU 13 5
T-18 Doug Jolley NYJ 16 5
T-18 Hines Ward PIT 15 5
T-18 Cedrick Wilson PIT 16 5

Don't see Gaff on here nor did I expect to. Moreover, we must watch the game at way different speeds because we definiteley are watching two different players.

Bobo
05-12-2006, 02:53 AM
your right... I mistyped....I shouldnt have said 35 drops... but 35 missed opportunities... but Im not exactly alone in this whole dropping passes thing.... heres ESPN's scouting report on Gaffney.

"He is an excellent route runner -smooth getting in and out of his cuts. While he is not a blazer, he does have very good quickness and can lull a defender to sleep because he does not look like he is moving very fast. He is a smart receiver that excels at reading coverages. He will drop catch-able balls. He will make bone-head plays like where he had a chance to score on a reverse but was hot-dogging with the ball and fumbled it out of the end zone. He does not play to his 4.49 speed and struggles to consistently separate vs. man coverage. He is not physical or tough as a player - plays soft at times and does not like contact."

I know using BSPN to back up your stance in this town is almost a sin..... but when they are right.... what can you do???..... sigh... I always liked Gaffney.... but I knew his weaknesses....

Gaffney was rated the fourth best receiver in the league regarding fewest dropped balls percentage wise in 2004.

http://www.protrade.com/insight/InsightArticleDetail.html?sp=KRC551197&x=x

Bobo
05-12-2006, 03:00 AM
Why only 50 some odd catches???? Could it be because he dropped the ball..... alot.... easily catchable balls..... all alone by himself and he drops the ball.... all the freakn time.... its known.... even by BSPN..... you'd think Texan fans would know that by now....

basing what Moulds will do on Gaffney's production..... its just wrong in so many ways.... and its sad.... I mean... as covered as A.J. has been since day one in the league.... and the guy only caught 50 some odd passes?

but that 55 receptions 800 yards is certainly a good guess... considering he had 81 receptions 816 yards last year.... if 800 yards receiving for a number 2 WR isnt producing..... what is? can you explain that one? anyone?

Umm, Gaffney caught 50-some passes last year same as what is projected for Moulds. Also, Gaffney rates in the top five for fewest dropped balls percentagewise. So what are you getting at?

Bobo
05-12-2006, 03:37 AM
your right... I mistyped....I shouldnt have said 35 drops... but 35 missed opportunities... but Im not exactly alone in this whole dropping passes thing.... heres ESPN's scouting report on Gaffney.

"He is an excellent route runner -smooth getting in and out of his cuts. While he is not a blazer, he does have very good quickness and can lull a defender to sleep because he does not look like he is moving very fast. He is a smart receiver that excels at reading coverages. He will drop catch-able balls. He will make bone-head plays like where he had a chance to score on a reverse but was hot-dogging with the ball and fumbled it out of the end zone. He does not play to his 4.49 speed and struggles to consistently separate vs. man coverage. He is not physical or tough as a player - plays soft at times and does not like contact."

I know using BSPN to back up your stance in this town is almost a sin..... but when they are right.... what can you do???..... sigh... I always liked Gaffney.... but I knew his weaknesses....

Bob Brookover, of the Philadelphia Inquirer, reports Philadelphia Eagles WR Jabar Gaffney will be used a lot inside in three-receiver sets, according to head coach Andy Reid. Reid said, "One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside (slot) receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties."

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-12-2006, 09:09 AM
Bob Brookover, of the Philadelphia Inquirer, reports Philadelphia Eagles WR Jabar Gaffney will be used a lot inside in three-receiver sets, according to head coach Andy Reid. Reid said, "One thing that jumps out at you when you look at his tapes is he doesn't drop the ball. Great hands and runs very good routes. In this offense, those things go a long way. He has a good feel for the safety. We're going to use him a lot as the inside (slot) receiver in three-receiver sets. He wasn't afraid to cross the middle with linebackers and safeties."

I'm sorry, but what else are you going to say about a player that you really need to step up and be the receiver he thinks he already is in his head. You have to help stroke his ego a bit to build confidence that he can do it,

IMO... With the additions of Moulds and Walter teaming up with AJ, this set of WR will be a top 10 core group on teams. In speed, size, and strength compared to others in the NFL. I think many people talk about tandems when in reality many teams tend to drop of when you enter the 3rd WR into the equation. Moulds and AJ are #1 WRs and Walter is a #2 on many teams. Then you add the TE position and now you have major disruption in the middle. All you need is that safety to bit for 1 second and that gives the WRs that break of one on one coverage and is what Carr needs to be looking for when in the pocket and then he should know exactly who to go to on that specific down.

I think everyone agrees the OL was a major hurt last year and then the Defensive scheme all together. If you look at the players they have brought in and drafted, that OLINE is very solid now as far as talent. Now we have to see how the General Flanagan brings his group together to cover each others butt and know exactly who get who on the defense and no missed assignments on the OLine.

Defense is also built up. I cannot wait for training camp to start to see all this studying and motions come to front.

I think 9-7 is a solid realistic result this season. Expect no less and cheer for more.
:rant: