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TommyS
05-09-2006, 04:19 PM
from Profootballtalk.com

CASSERLY OUT IN HOUSTON

A league source tells us that the Texans and G.M. Charley Casserly officially have parted ways after a six-year relationship, which preceded by more than two full years the team's official arrival to the NFL.

For now, we don't know whether the move is being characterized as a resignation or a termination. Our guess is that it will be described to the media as voluntary.

Several weeks back, we reported that Casserly would be fired after the draft. Our report prompted a strong denial from the team and from owner Bob McNair. Our prediction at the time was that all parties were hoping to preserve the appearance that Casserly's ultimate departure was not in any way forced.

His name has been mentioned as a potential replacement for Art Shell in the league office, but we've heard that the rumors of Casserly's candidacy for that specific position trace not to the Park Avenue, but to Casserly himself.

And based on things we're hearing it now appears that the Texans will make a run at Broncos assistant G.M. Rick Smith before moving on to other candidates. Some league insiders believe that the Broncos would never give Smith permission to leave, and other league insiders believe that the Texans don't (or at least shouldn't) want Smith given his close relationship with new head coach Gary Kubiak.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POSTED 1:35 p.m. EDT, May 9, 2006

TEXANS TO TRY TRIANGLE OF AUTHORITY?

As Houston Texans owner Bob McNair and G.M. Charley Casserly prepare for a meeting that most likely will result in Casserly's depature from the organization, we're hearing that the plan post-Charley in Houson will be to utilize a "Triangle of Authority" similar to the arrangement that the Vikings utilized prior to the termination of director of player personnel Fran Foley.

Per a league source, Casserly's replacement will share control with coach Gary Kubiak and V.P. of football administration Dan Ferens.

We'd previously heard that the initial candidates to replace Casserly were former Falcons personnel guy Ron Hill, Eagles director of player personnel Jason Licht, and Bucs director of player personnel Ruston Webster. We're now hearing that Seahawks director of pro personnel Will Lewis, Broncos assistant G.M. Rick Smith, and Packers director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie are also in the mix.

But because the reconstituted G.M. gig in Houston (which might not even carry that same title) won't include final say on the roster, the draft, and who the head coach is (or isn't), front-office employees who are still under contract with other teams can leave only with permission.

Hill currently is unattached, and Webster's and McKenzie's contracts expired after the April draft. We don't know the specific status of the other potential candidates, although we assume that Smith is still under contract in Denver since he only recently was promoted to assistant G.M.

the wonger need food
05-09-2006, 04:31 PM
From what we've heard Casserly doesn't do anything anyway. Kubiak picks the players and Ferens negotiates the deals.

So long Cass, we'll miss your double speak and smarmy attitude. Keep an eye out for us if you wrangle that NFL position.

El Tejano
05-09-2006, 04:34 PM
Wow. I like the pick for Williams and I like Kubiak's involvement in it. Seeing as how I am hearing mixed information on who's decision it was, I sure hope this draft wasn't Casserly's way of giving a good-bye screw to Houston.

powerfuldragon
05-09-2006, 04:39 PM
NOOOOOOOooooooooo!

El Tejano
05-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Ha Ha!!! What do you mean by that?

Porky
05-09-2006, 05:15 PM
Good bye and good riddance. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. :BananaWav :shoot:

TexanFan881
05-09-2006, 05:18 PM
It's time to :party:

Nawzer
05-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Finally Moe can go back to Larry and Curly. Goodbye!!!

Zo Mourning
05-09-2006, 05:27 PM
About time the Texans booted him out. Should of done it last season.

SanAntonioTexanFan
05-09-2006, 05:28 PM
The only surpise is that he lasted this long. See ya!

TheRealJoker
05-09-2006, 05:30 PM
Isn't this the site that is mostly rumors though?

SESupergenius
05-09-2006, 05:31 PM
No really, don't go....please run this team into the ground some more, pretty please. Ferens does the negotiations, Kubiak gets the players and Casserly does.....does......does.....oh, he speaks to the media sorta like a puppet and is looks very confident in doing it. :hunter: >>>CHARLIE CASSERLIE!

TexanFan881
05-09-2006, 05:32 PM
Isn't this the site that is mostly rumors though?

It's been said that the decision was supposed to come today or tomorrow so it's not like this isn't believable.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3849903.html (at bottom)

Exascor
05-09-2006, 05:32 PM
A lot of hatred for this man. Shame.

Double Barrel
05-09-2006, 05:50 PM
Good luck, Charley! :BananaWav

mapleleaf
05-09-2006, 06:04 PM
Oh I hate him, to tell you the truth he's the real reason why we haven't had a winning season.

Well good luck in your life man, hopefully I'll see you cleaning up my school hallways.

HoustonFrog
05-09-2006, 07:00 PM
Good bye and good riddance. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. :BananaWav :shoot:

Could not have said it better.

kastofsna
05-09-2006, 07:07 PM
adam schefter reporting on NFL Network he'll be gone by tomorrow.

AtheGreat
05-09-2006, 07:15 PM
Man, with Capers gone, Pendry gone, and now CC, who are we gonna rag on now? Oh well, bon voage Cassyboy.

Carr Bombed
05-09-2006, 07:22 PM
I sure will miss his 4th rounders though, but thats about all.

Bongo59
05-09-2006, 07:28 PM
Wow. I like the pick for Williams and I like Kubiak's involvement in it. Seeing as how I am hearing mixed information on who's decision it was, I sure hope this draft wasn't Casserly's way of giving a good-bye screw to Houston..................the real reason CC stayed for the draft is to take the heat off McNair and Kubiak for passing on bush for Williams. That is the reason Reeves was brought in.................he helped Kubiak on the draft not CC and McNair asked CC to stick around and be the fall guy for picking Mario............he knew he was leaving and that is why he had his famous press conference telling the world he was passing on Bush................he even said if someone is to blame on passing Bush they should blame him................He was setting himself up to be the fall guy for passing Bush and VY...............the problem is McNair and Kubiak are getting a pass in Houston and nationally.............but this act puts the heat squarely on mario Williams now..............not CC because he bailed..................Dan Reeves and Kubiak overthunk this one...........................Mario is going up a steep hill nationwide not only in houston................the pressure will be enormous for him to match Julius Peppers skills and numbers.......................this draft decision will be talked about for yrs......................we'll see who was right.

tsip
05-09-2006, 07:37 PM
...geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

FILO_girl
05-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Well heyall. Just about every angle has been covered in these two pages already. Guess all I can add is..

Buh-bye Charley. :BananaWav

Carr Bombed
05-09-2006, 07:45 PM
.................the real reason CC stayed for the draft is to take the heat off McNair and Kubiak for passing on bush for Williams. That is the reason Reeves was brought in.................he helped Kubiak on the draft not CC and McNair asked CC to stick around and be the fall guy for picking Mario............he knew he was leaving and that is why he had his famous press conference telling the world he was passing on Bush................he even said if someone is to blame on passing Bush they should blame him................He was setting himself up to be the fall guy for passing Bush and VY...............the problem is McNair and Kubiak are getting a pass in Houston and nationally.............but this act puts the heat squarely on mario Williams now..............not CC because he bailed..................Dan Reeves and Kubiak overthunk this one...........................Mario is going up a steep hill nationwide not only in houston................the pressure will be enormous for him to match Julius Peppers skills and numbers.......................this draft decision will be talked about for yrs......................we'll see who was right.

I'm glad I'm wearing boots, because its getting real deep in here.

CC staying had nothing to do with the the draft pick, the decision to take Mario wasn't even made until days leading up to the draft.

Koolbrz
05-09-2006, 07:49 PM
hhuuummmm!!!! Let me see here. He screws up the first pick in the draft and now he is out the door...LOL. Looks to me like he wanted to stick it to the Texans before leaving.

aj.
05-09-2006, 07:53 PM
........................The fall guy angle is superficial and very transparent to those who follow the team closely but it will work nationally where people are not plugged in what's happening here.

The truth is that CCs fate was already sealed on Jan 2 when they had no idea who they would be selecting #1 in the draft. It was CCs scouts and CC who built the draft board, not Reeves. It was Reeves, and not CC who asked the football related questions during the interviews of the head coaches. It was Kubiak who had his fingerprints all over this draft. It will be Kubiak, Ferens and a new VP of Player Personnel who will run the place from here on out.

This has been in the works for 4 months and McN's only deal with CC after he hung him out to dry in January was to let him walk on his own to save face and 'pursue other interests' if he would stay on long enough to get through the draft, i.e., to build Gary's draft board. Otherwise, any GM worth his salt would have quit after the Reeves hiring.

HoustonFrog
05-09-2006, 07:59 PM
Man, with Capers gone, Pendry gone, and now CC, who are we gonna rag on now? Oh well, bon voage Cassyboy.

You know what, that is fine by me. I think a FULL fresh start was needed for the franchise and if we can find a person who can start dealing with Kubiak starting this season..seeing the holes, etc as the games progress, then we will be better off. I won't complain at all about him again....maybe

Hulk75
05-09-2006, 08:00 PM
I just heard yesterday that he is staying, ESPN said it right at the end of the show yesterday.
Confused??????

mapleleaf
05-09-2006, 08:03 PM
I just heard yesterday that he is staying, ESPN said it right at the end of the show yesterday.
Confused??????
Yep I'm confused, some sources say he's leaving some say he's staying to poison our team for one more year. Well if he stays he only has 1 year in the contract so after that we might have another GM that might help our team's reputation and strength.

Porky
05-09-2006, 10:06 PM
I just heard yesterday that he is staying, ESPN said it right at the end of the show yesterday.
Confused??????

ESPN is wrong if you believe the NFL Network. They are reporting CC is outta here. :yahoo: :shots:

mexican_texan
05-09-2006, 10:23 PM
He did a better job than most of us give him credit for. Diss him, but give him credit, as he had a hand in picking our favorite players. I wish nothing but the best for Casserly.

powerfuldragon
05-09-2006, 10:26 PM
He did a better job than most of us give him credit for. Diss him, but give him credit, as he had a hand in picking our favorite players. I wish nothing but the best for Casserly.
agreed.

CoachJim
05-09-2006, 10:39 PM
Well heyall. Just about every angle has been covered in these two pages already. Guess all I can add is..

Buh-bye Charley. :BananaWav

Like the Crue song says ... "Don't go away mad, just go away".

SESupergenius
05-09-2006, 11:38 PM
He did a better job than most of us give him credit for. Diss him, but give him credit, as he had a hand in picking our favorite players. I wish nothing but the best for Casserly.
Ya, I give him "credit" for Boselli, Hollings, Buchanon, etc....the list is just too long.

Trap_Star
05-09-2006, 11:41 PM
Ya, I give him "credit" for Boselli, Hollings, Buchanon, etc....the list is just too long.

....bringing Matt Stevens for a second time.....:rolleyes:

mexican_texan
05-09-2006, 11:47 PM
Ya, I give him "credit" for Boselli, Hollings, Buchanon, etc....the list is just too long.
D-Rob, AJ, DD, Pitts, Hogdon, Brown, Peek, Orr, Earl, and Mathis can be added to that list.

SESupergenius
05-09-2006, 11:50 PM
D-Rob, AJ, DD, Pitts, Hogdon, Brown, Peek, Orr, Earl, and Mathis can be added to that list.
You're kidding right? This is funny.

2-14.

mexican_texan
05-09-2006, 11:51 PM
You're kidding right? This is funny.

2-14.
Many more factors went into that.

TMac48
05-10-2006, 02:32 AM
I sure will miss his 4th rounders though, but thats about all.
In that case, let's see how Daniels does first.

Texans34Life
05-10-2006, 02:32 AM
Texans | Casserly expected to resign Wednesday
Tue, 9 May 2006 23:22:22 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans general manager Charley Casserly is expected to resign when he meets with team owner Bob McNair Wednesday, May 10. Casserly is a candidate to fill the vacancy of vice president of football operations, which was left open when Art Shell was hired as the Oakland Raiders head coach. If Casserly leaves, the leading candidates to replace him are Denver Broncos assistant general manager Rick Smith, Green Bay Packers director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie and former personnel director Ron Hill, who worked for the Denver Broncos, Jacksonville Jaguars and Atlanta Falcons.

Frank_The_Tank
05-10-2006, 02:36 AM
What a P.O.S. I'm so glad that guy is gone. I hope he is forced out of the NFL and up to the Canadian League. He has no business around a NFL team.

Malloy
05-10-2006, 03:57 AM
He did a better job than most of us give him credit for. Diss him, but give him credit, as he had a hand in picking our favorite players. I wish nothing but the best for Casserly.

Thank you, wholeheartedly agree!

Johnny Utah
05-10-2006, 07:42 AM
Many more factors went into that.

Yes, but as GM he had insight into who McNair should hire as head coach. Casserly was part of building the worst expansion team of all time. He has done a poor job for the texans as GM and should be gone.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 09:02 AM
Unfortunatey for Cass his legacy will endure with Carr at the helm. Cass sealed his fate by drafting mediocrity with the first pick in 2002. Like most figure heads they get to move on while the shareholders get stuck with the mistake.

Texans Horror
05-10-2006, 09:17 AM
I am surprised to hear all this hatred for the man who helped bring Super Mario to the Texans. The way the boards have been lately, I thought we were all in agreement that this was the best decision/draft and the sports writers are just idiots for thinking otherwise.

Mr. White
05-10-2006, 09:22 AM
Unfortunatey for Cass his legacy will endure with Carr at the helm. Cass sealed his fate by drafting mediocrity with the first pick in 2002. Like most figure heads they get to move on while the shareholders get stuck with the mistake.

I'd go so far as to say he sealed his fate by hiring somebody less than mediocre even before drafting Carr. I'll never understand the rationale for hiring Capers. At that point, he had one winning season in the 4 he had been a HC.

Blake
05-10-2006, 09:53 AM
I dont know what to think here. The GM kinda shares the same fate as the head coach. I think CC got lumped in with Capers bad drafts, and now with Kubiaks good draft. IMO

I really dont know what all he does as a GM. But I do think hes been bad at negotiating players contracts. I mean hell, we are still paying Walker millions. Weaver was a lot more than I expected. And overall, I see high prices. I know that you have to pay good players to come here, but c'mon. Gary Walker does not deserve that kind of money. I think Capers just freaked out about losing a 3-4 lineman.

Porky
05-10-2006, 09:57 AM
I am surprised to hear all this hatred for the man who helped bring Super Mario to the Texans. The way the boards have been lately, I thought we were all in agreement that this was the best decision/draft and the sports writers are just idiots for thinking otherwise.

Speak for yourself. Reggie Bush was the right choice imo. I think they will live to regret it. But, it's done. Water under the bridge. Resignation and acceptance doesn't equate to agreement.

kingh99
05-10-2006, 10:01 AM
I won't pile on why the guy is down.

:yahoo:

Vinny
05-10-2006, 10:14 AM
Speak for yourself. Reggie Bush was the right choice imo. I think they will live to regret it. But, it's done. Water under the bridge. Resignation and acceptance doesn't equate to agreement.I think he was too as he was the only player I wanted if we weren't going to draft Young...and that was obvious it wouldn't happen early on. Bush would have turned our offense into a great explosive offense. We will have to see what Williams does and see how he impacts the defense. I don't even think he was a finalist for any of the prestigious line awards last year, so his workout was more impressive than his production. That said, there is nothing we can do about it except get behind our guys and judge them on what we see on the field.

I have mixed feelings on Casserly, but I don't like his decision making style. If you keep giving the decisions to the people under you and they pass the decisions to guys like Vic Fangio....ugh. I have a headache just thinking about his management style.

Texans Horror
05-10-2006, 10:18 AM
Speak for yourself. Reggie Bush was the right choice imo. I think they will live to regret it. But, it's done. Water under the bridge. Resignation and acceptance doesn't equate to agreement.

I didn't like the pick either. I've been amazed at how dissociative the board's identity has been over the past six months. Before the Rose Bowl, you were reamed for not wanted Fergie. Then, you were blitzed for not wanting Young. After a month or two of that, it was all Reggie, and anyone thinking otherwise should be hung out to dry. Now that we've picked Mario, their is an Inquisition going on against anybody who thinks negatively about Mario or positively about the other guys.

For the record, I was in the Bush camp, but I think any of those players would have done well.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 10:21 AM
I think he was too as he was the only player I wanted if we weren't going to draft Young...and that was obvious it wouldn't happen early on. Bush would have turned our offense into a great explosive offense. We will have to see what Williams does and see how he impacts the defense. I don't even think he was a finalist for any of the prestigious line awards last year, so his workout was more impressive than his production. That said, there is nothing we can do about it except get behind our guys and judge them on what we see on the field.

I have mixed feelings on Casserly, but I don't like his decision making style. If you keep giving the decisions to the people under you and they pass the decisions to guys like Vic Fangio....ugh. I have a headache just thinking about his management style.

One could easily juxtapose the statement if things happened differently:
Williams would have turned our defense into a great explosive defense. We will have to see what Bush does and see how he impacts the offense.

Fangio should never be mentioned again.

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 10:22 AM
Many more factors went into that.The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

Runner
05-10-2006, 10:24 AM
I have mixed feelings on Casserly, but I don't like his decision making style. If you keep giving the decisions to the people under you and they pass the decisions to guys like Vic Fangio....ugh. I have a headache just thinking about his management style.

Was Casserly really Capers' boss in anything more than an org chart drawing? I don't know which option reflects reality for the Texans:

1) Casserly was a weak boss who could have TOLD Capers what to do and made it stick, but didn't.

2) Casserly really had no direct authority over Capers because there was more of a front office council (i.e. McNAir's influence) running things.

I'm pretty sure Capers/Casserly didn't agree on some of the players that were getting playing time last year. In addition, I think Casserly wanted some assistants fired before the season started but Dom wouldn't do it.

Vinny
05-10-2006, 10:30 AM
One could easily juxtapose the statement if things happened differently:
Williams would have turned our defense into a great explosive defense. We will have to see what Bush does and see how he impacts the offense.

Fangio should never be mentioned again.Bush produced on the field. Tell me who the Lombardi finalists were last year, and try to explain to me why Williams wasn't one of them.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2006, 10:41 AM
The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

Could not agree more and I'll state it one last time. The GMs job is "personnel." This includes drafts, trades, coaches, etc. It is a cop out and excuse to say that the picks or moves were Capers. Even with his input the final decision comes down to the GM. In all honestly, why have a GM if his role is to gather info and then wash his hands of it when others make decisions?That is HIS job and by the direction of the team after 4 years he failed miseribly. Sorry, there is no way to spin that. It was his job.

Rightnow
05-10-2006, 10:41 AM
When CC is gone I wonder how this message board will treat the new GM. CC has made some boneheaded moves, but so do most if not all GMs.

So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

:fridge:

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 10:42 AM
Bush produced on the field. Tell me who the Lombardi finalists were last year, and try to explain to me why Williams wasn't one of them.

No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

Porky
05-10-2006, 10:47 AM
The buck stops with Casserly, he's the general manager, get it, MANAGER. He's "managed" this team into the gutter and the laughing stock of the league. IT's good for business and development that he's gone because the product he's putting on the field is bad. Oh wait, maybe he doesn't select the players. He doesn't do the contract, Ferens does. So what did Casserly do exaclty?

Bingo! We have a winner. Let's see. If a guy like DD is picked, everyone praises CC and calls him a great evaulator of talent. When Jason Babin is a flop, it's not his fault, it's because he only picks the players his coaches want. Well, which is it? This guy talks out of both sides of his mouth, and wants it both ways.

Vinny
05-10-2006, 10:48 AM
No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 10:49 AM
So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

:fridge:Every GM is allowed to have some bonehead moves. But not that many. Not as many as Casserly has had/allowed.

An example of a good GM. Someone who's teams have winning records in the last 5 years.

Porky
05-10-2006, 10:54 AM
No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production. :lightbulb:

Runner
05-10-2006, 10:56 AM
So who is a good example of a current GM that you'd like to have here?

Any of the ones who have never messed up. :)

kingh99
05-10-2006, 10:57 AM
No need to try as college awards are not pre requisites for success in the NFL.

I agree 100%. There have been many a legendary college player that played his best ball in college. And some guys you never heard of who became monsters in the pros. People hit their physical and mental peak at different ages.

Exascor
05-10-2006, 10:57 AM
This thread seems to have derailed a little but...

I was a Young -> Bush -> Trade Down guy. I wasn't happy with Williams for the same reasons Vinny posted. Seems like he was a workout warrior that went from unknown status to the first pick because of his combine performance. I have doubts because he played with 2 other first round picks on a weak team. I have doubts because he was benched midseason. He didn't dominate until after the benching and when he was playing weaker opponents.

Bush and Young both performed at very high levels for at least an entire season. Sure I had doubts about both of them but to me the risk was less. I'd have been elated if we had traded down and taken Williams but the first pick was just too high imo.

That said, he's a Texan and I'll support him. Who's to blame (or gets credit) for the Williams over Bush/Young pick? Kubiak imo

Back to the original topic though: Cassery did take too many risks for my tastes but other than that he did what I'd expect from a GM. He took the input from his staff and picked players that they felt would best fit their scheme. Too much delagating? Maybe. Did he help pick a bad staff? Maybe. I just don't think he did that bad of a job.

If he is really gone, then I wish him good luck.

Porky
05-10-2006, 11:04 AM
I agree 100%. There have been many a legendary college player that played his best ball in college. And some guys you never heard of who became monsters in the pros. People hit their physical and mental peak at different ages.

Sure there are guys who became monsters in the pros. Rod Smith was not even drafted. But, Rod Smith wasn't the #1 pick in the draft. The point is that at that spot, it's much safer to pick the guy who actually consistently got it done on the field, week after week, down after down, then a wildly inconsistent player who looks like Superman, but plays like Clark Kent.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 11:04 AM
Every GM is allowed to have some bonehead moves. But not that many. Not as many as Casserly has had/allowed.

An example of a good GM. Someone who's teams have winning records in the last 5 years.

Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you are on right now may about to get green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans. This is my biggest gripe with the Texans as a franchise. The greatest franchises emphasize and exhibit patience, even in the lean times. The worst franchises just jump from coach to coach, player to player, GM to GM and never get any continuity going. The result is what you've got in teams like the Arizona Cardinals. And I believe that's just what the Texans are headed -- another verison of the Arizona Cardinals.

Porky
05-10-2006, 11:07 AM
Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you may be on may about to be getting green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans.

Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 11:08 AM
Carr is a mistake. Williams just like anyone else we drafted this year has a tabula rasa until we get some snaps. Kill Cass on Carr and Babin if you want to spit venom for our #1 picks.

chuckm
05-10-2006, 11:11 AM
Carr is a mistake.

Possibly. We'll know for sure in less than a year. However, throwing him to the wolves was definitely a mistake.


Kill Cass on Carr and Babin if you want to spit venom for our #1 picks.

John McClain has said on more than one occasion that Capers and Fangio told CC that drafting Babin was a must ....

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2006, 11:13 AM
Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production. :lightbulb:

Well, DeMeco Ryans was one of the finalists for the Bronko Nagurski award; Dumerville won. Dumerville was drafted in the 4th round.

Poluzsny (sp) won the Bednarik award and beat out AJ Hawk and D'Qwell Jackson.

Obviously, winning these awards doesn't translate to draft status and not being in the running for them shouldn't count against Williams. Several teams had Williams rated higher than Bush. That's enough for me.

And... I wasn't here for the discussions prior to the draft so I didn't see who people were talking about then. I would have been in the Ferguson camp. I never wanted Young or Bush and I'm perfectly happy with Williams.

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 11:13 AM
Bull. Everyone exaggerates the bad moves their GM makes. Everybody is so negative about their staffs. But I will say one thing -- the grass isn't always greener on the other side. In fact, the grass you may be on may about to be getting green, only it never will be if you dig it up too early. And that's just what I think is happening with the Texans.
The grass has to be greener since we went 2-14. All under his watch. If you are saying that we dug it up too early then Capers should still be here as well considering they worked together on the drafts (according to Casserly). You will not find a bigger supported of Capers on these boards than I am(was), but I knew it was time for him to go. Casserly apologists should do the same.

I was in trade down camp and wasn't into the whole Bush/Young homer debate. I knew that our defense needed more attention than offense, but to bring in 2 new lineman that have started significantly and then DRAFT a DE with the #1 pick made very little sense. IMO Casserly didn't do a very good job entertaining offers for the #1 pick, one in which we now have 3 players draft in the top 3 spots over 5 years, we are going to get killed in the cap somewhere.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 11:14 AM
What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.

It depends on who you define as nobody. Those nobody's are sportswriters not NFL scouts.

http://www.newsobserver.com/122/story/433889.html

Another motivator for Williams came when he wasn't one of 12 Lombardi Award semifinalists.

"You really can't explain what happened," Williams said before the bowl game in Charlotte. "If I was to go back and have the first half of the season like it is now in the second half, I'd have 20-plus sacks."

Vinny
05-10-2006, 11:15 AM
Well, DeMeco Ryans was one of the finalists for the Bronko Nagurski award; Dumerville won. Dumerville was drafted in the 4th round.

Poluzsny (sp) won the Bednarik award and beat out AJ Hawk and D'Qwell Jackson.

Obviously, winning these awards doesn't translate to draft status and not being in the running for them shouldn't count against Williams. Several teams had Williams rated higher than Bush. That's enough for me.

And... I wasn't here for the discussions prior to the draft so I didn't see who people were talking about then. I would have been in the Ferguson camp. I never wanted Young or Bush and I'm perfectly happy with Williams.Nobody is saying that the winner translates to being the better player...but when you are the first overall pick and you aren't even mentioned as one of the best linemen of the year....thats a red flag.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 11:16 AM
Yes, but as GM he had insight into who McNair should hire as head coach. Casserly was part of building the worst expansion team of all time. He has done a poor job for the texans as GM and should be gone.

This is lunacy. The Texans were steadily improving for their first three years. They had one bad year where they regressed and you say something like this?

HoustonFrog
05-10-2006, 11:16 AM
Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 11:19 AM
Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

The Saints, I believe, took something like seven years to get to 7-9 -- something Capers accomplished in three. And it took 20 years for them to have a winning record. Try the Bengals. Paul Brown's team had a couple of bad years, then a good one, and then a horrible one. They didn't get rid of him, and two years later they won their division. And Tampa Bay wasn't all that great either. It takes time to build a winner, and for you to expect something like that after four years when the only thing these guys had to work with was raw rookies and NFL rejects is completely unrealistic.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 11:19 AM
Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

The only thing I would say to this is that Cass would not mandate that we are running the 3-4 defense. If you want to ding him for Babin then you have to ding the 3-4 and Capers for taking Carr and not Peppers. It works both ways in my opinion.

HJam72
05-10-2006, 11:19 AM
To be honest, I sort of afree with Bobo on this particular subject, but for a very different reason: I think the old coaching staff made CC look terrible. Not just in terms of telling him who they wanted, but more so in terms of plain bad coaching and terrible play-calling and scheming. I think he should stay, but having said that, I'm OK with it if he goes. I mean when your team goes 2-14, it's perfectly understandable to replace the entire old regime.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 11:22 AM
Not only that but why is everyone so forgiving about a guy who threw away valuable picks and basically put us in this position? Most GMS...Floyd Reese and others make the picks THEY want to make because THEIR job is talent evaluation and where it fits the needs. The coach can give his input but for the most part they pull the trigger. So what was so right about Charlie acting like a genius when he hit one pick but blaming the coaches when he missed almost every pick in the 2nd and 3rd round? After 4 years of bringing us down...like he did Washington...he, ON PAPER, has a good draft and people want to forgive him?Now it is HIS draft?I'm betting that many of you were saying that the other years drafts were great too.....on paper.

More bull. Where you get this "four years of bringing us down" when the team had just one year of regression is beyond me. You don't create immediate winners when all you have to choose from is NFL rejects and raw rookies. It takes time -- apparently something many folks aren't willing to offer up. But folks like this get what they deserve -- they find themselves constantly starting over and never getting even close to what they want.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 11:23 AM
To be honest, I sort of afree with Bobo on this particular subject, but for a very different reason: I think the old coaching staff made CC look terrible. Not just in terms of telling him who they wanted, but more so in terms of plain bad coaching and terrible play-calling and scheming. I think he should stay, but having said that, I'm OK with it if he goes. I mean when your team goes 2-14, it's perfectly understandable to replace the entire old regime.

One bad year and you want to blow up the whole thing. Well, that takes you back to year one. Now instead of regressing in just one year with a chance to bounce back, you are going back to scratch and will have to wait once again to get to where you want to be. Sounds pretty darn silly to me.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2006, 11:24 AM
The only thing I would say to this is that Cass would not mandate that we are running the 3-4 defense. If you want to ding him for Babin then you have to ding the 3-4 and Capers for taking Carr and not Peppers. It works both ways in my opinion.

Fair enough and a valid point but he also was the guy who led the coaching search and who hired Capers?(Carr was never my pick by the way) He knew his tendencies and his background. In my book they were all in bed with each other when they started this franchise. Capers made bad moves and was true to his buddies..maybe tendencies that should have been discovered beforehand. If you follow the 4 years either way I think they both should have been gone together.

pv1999
05-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Can Cass have an official announcement before everybody shows him the door? Sheeash.
I think he has screwed us too but not with Carr, he was the best QB in that draft and it wasn't going to happen in free agency, The Babin pick sucked, we should have picked up DJ last year, He did however get the Andre Johnson pick right. Davis was a reach that turned out well, so far. He screwed us with his line selections on both sides of the ball and that cornerburnt he picked up last year. Letting Glenn go was also a mistake, and when will we get our best QB out of the defensive backfield? Nevermind now that I think about it, we have been Cas***********ed with no vaseline. That explains Mario, he knew it didn't matter anyway cause he would be gone.

HoustonFrog
05-10-2006, 11:28 AM
More bull. Where you get this "four years of bringing us down" when the team had just one year of regression is beyond me. You don't create immediate winners when all you have to choose from is NFL rejects and raw rookies. It takes time -- apparently something many folks aren't willing to offer up. But folks like this get what they deserve -- they find themselves constantly starting over and never getting even close to what they want.

What do you mean?The NFL lets you pick guys to start your team. Then you are given the TOP pick in every round to add to it. You basically can sign who you want and conssitently have high draft picks. That is called bad personnel moves. 2-14 is more than one year of regression. Under you argument Capers should have stayed too because we were headed in the right direction. It is a talent level thing mixed with coaching. They all were in it together and we are starting from scratch because of them.

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 11:29 AM
One bad year and you want to blow up the whole thing. Well, that takes you back to year one. Now instead of regressing in just one year with a chance to bounce back, you are going back to scratch and will have to wait once again to get to where you want to be. Sounds pretty darn silly to me.
So Capers should still be here, he only had 1 bad year, correct?

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 11:30 AM
Fair enough and a valid point but he also was the guy who led the coaching search and who hired Capers?(Carr was never my pick by the way) He knew his tendencies and his background. In my book they were all in bed with each other when they started this franchise. Capers made bad moves and was true to his buddies..maybe tendencies that should have been discovered beforehand. If you follow the 4 years either way I think they both should have been gone together.

I agree along the lines of your logic. All I know is that a surgery was performed the first week of January and in my world of Texan fandom happy days have followed since. The only thing that changed was the coaching staff which fostered a new mentaility which Cass was a part of and executed upon. The level of degree is debatable, but the results in my opinion are not.

Snapple
05-10-2006, 11:47 AM
Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.

Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!

:perfect10: :fans: :whoohoo: :sbad:

U4ikrob
05-10-2006, 11:47 AM
Too many bad choices mixed with not enough good ones over 5 years usually spells being let go in any business. Compared to his good decisions I'm honestly surprised he wasnt out-right fired after last year, but think Mcnair didnt want to completely get rid of the old staff until he had a new solid staff in place - like now to run things, draft and get the team situated and moving forward into this new year before letting Charlie go.

Sorry but Charlie did a poor job as a GM here. Ultimately his many bad choices far outweighed his few good ones. Lets not forget to mention he and his whole staff pretty much ignored the owner's request last year [To protect David Carr] and let the "Franchise QB" pretty much get beat on almost as bad as his first year here. It's now known that Charlie pretty much let his staff run the team with him making speeches and occasioanl decisions. He let the staff run thigns so much that they eventually ran the players off the team or into the ground to the point he had to have ownership step in and make choices for him, fired his previous staff before the team was completely lost and try to turn things around before they had to scrap it all and rebuild from the start like Cleveland did. IMO the Texans are not far off from what happened in Cleveland - the results are scary in comparison.

Anyone still think Dan Reeves wasnt here to evaluate Charlie and the whole staff? I still dont buy that one. IMO Sorry Charlie - But you were a bad GM. You could have been worse for sure, but hopefully we can stop the bleeding after today. Do the right thing and resign.

As for Good GM's/FO - How about the Patriots or Steelers - both good teams who tend not to overspend and usually develop good players thru the draft.

Porky
05-10-2006, 11:53 AM
The Saints, I believe, took something like seven years to get to 7-9 -- something Capers accomplished in three. And it took 20 years for them to have a winning record. Try the Bengals. Paul Brown's team had a couple of bad years, then a good one, and then a horrible one. They didn't get rid of him, and two years later they won their division. And Tampa Bay wasn't all that great either. It takes time to build a winner, and for you to expect something like that after four years when the only thing these guys had to work with was raw rookies and NFL rejects is completely unrealistic.

Tampa Bay was in the playoffs in year four. We had a 2-14 record. Nice try though.

dalemurphy
05-10-2006, 11:56 AM
What it tells me is that nobody considered him dominant as the guys who were finalists.

I'm not here to bash Williams. I'm already behind the pick, but I am not afraid to ask the tough questions.


My friend who watches the ACC regularly (Maryland grad), was commenting on this guy during the season. He thought he was awesome. The reason why he wasn't considered dominate in the media, etc. probably has to do with the hype machine going into last season. He was on a mediocre team and was a true junior. Couple that with a slow start and there wasn't time for the hype to start up. Furthermore, people criticize his season as inconsistant because he only had one sack in his first 5 games. I find that fact to be exciting. He was a young guy learning the nuances of the position. Once he grasped things, he had 13.5 sacks in his last 7 games. I'd say that is pretty dominate production.

Finalists for most college awards are predetermined before the season even begins.

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2006, 11:57 AM
Nobody is saying that the winner translates to being the better player...but when you are the first overall pick and you aren't even mentioned as one of the best linemen of the year....thats a red flag.

Mentioned by whom? By the people picking the awards? Or the people drafting? Because he was being mentioned as the best lineman in the draft by the people who count. Mario Williams was the highest defensive player on more draft boards than just ours. Several mock drafts had him going second to the Saints and many more had him being picked in the top 10.

Whether he was in the running for NCAA awards is irrelevant.

The Pencil Neck
05-10-2006, 12:00 PM
Tampa Bay was in the playoffs in year four. We had a 2-14 record. Nice try though.

Another close one (although no cigar) is the Cleveland Browns.

1999 - 2-14
2000 - 3-13
2001 - 7-9
2002 - 9-7 (and into the playoffs in year 4)
2003 - 5-11
2004 - 4-12
2005 - 6-10

We did better the first three years but then totally bombed out on the 4th year. Hopefully, we do better than they've done since their 4th year.

kingh99
05-10-2006, 12:00 PM
Sure there are guys who became monsters in the pros. Rod Smith was not even drafted. But, Rod Smith wasn't the #1 pick in the draft. The point is that at that spot, it's much safer to pick the guy who actually consistently got it done on the field, week after week, down after down, then a wildly inconsistent player who looks like Superman, but plays like Clark Kent.

Actually wunderkind college rb's have more often than not seen their bests days in college. We all know the examples. Goes back to Ricky Bell and Archie Griffin. Probably further than that.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 12:01 PM
Name another expansion team that didn't have a winning record by year 4.

Dallas Cowboys, Houston Oilers after NFL merger to name two. Apprently it is in our Texan DNA more so than a carpetbagger from the northeast.

El Tejano
05-10-2006, 12:02 PM
Mentioned by whom? By the people picking the awards? Or the people drafting? Because he was being mentioned as the best lineman in the draft by the people who count. Mario Williams was the highest defensive player on more draft boards than just ours. Several mock drafts had him going second to the Saints and many more had him being picked in the top 10.

Whether he was in the running for NCAA awards is irrelevant.
Not when you think that most teams are smart and put players on their board so that they force teams like us to make guessing decisions.

Double Barrel
05-10-2006, 12:05 PM
Memo to KT - Awards are usually based on on-field production. :lightbulb:

Note to Porky - most Heisman winners have been busts in the NFL.

"There have been 70 winners since University of Chicago running back Jay Berwanger took home the first one in 1935, and using both hands, you could total up the number who went on to become truly great pros." - Jim Litke, AP

And on the flip side, some of the greatest players in the history of pro football won no personal awards in college.

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 12:06 PM
Not when you think that most teams are smart and put players on their board so that they force teams like us to make guessing decisions.

Are you saying that it was a guess to decide that the 31st defense in the NFL last year needed to be addressed?

Trap_Star
05-10-2006, 12:09 PM
http://www.mathafacka.com/images/UpKumer/eCrouch.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/031213/031213_jasonWhite_hmed_9p.hmedium.jpg

Yet to play a down in the nfl.....

The Duke
05-10-2006, 12:09 PM
See ya!!!

and I wouldn't wanna be ya!!!!!!

Time for:shots:

Kaiser Toro
05-10-2006, 12:10 PM
http://www.mathafacka.com/images/UpKumer/eCrouch.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/031213/031213_jasonWhite_hmed_9p.hmedium.jpg

Yet to play a down in the nfl.....


:fireball:

FILO_girl
05-10-2006, 12:32 PM
Pardon if I am late on this, didn't read the entire thread as I have news and didn't have time to check first.

Per KPRC TV, Cass will be stepping down...press conference by the Texans coming later today.
Just on my TV, no link.

Ibar_Harry
05-10-2006, 01:34 PM
Pardon if I am late on this, didn't read the entire thread as I have news and didn't have time to check first.

Per KPRC TV, Cass will be stepping down...press conference by the Texans coming later today.
Just on my TV, no link.

That would not be necessarily the case, but given the Megan article in the Chonicle it looks like that is the situation. I have always believed Cass did nothing more than what was asked of him and did it in the best way he knew how. I really think we will miss Casserly, but that's my opinion. It will be interesting to see who they hire and how that person fits in with the rest of the organization.

Kubiak and Casserly worked very closely in this last draft and I really hope that this is because Casserly is going to move up in the NFL. Its a tough business and he's in a position where you take a lot of hits for others.

Sportsfan
05-10-2006, 02:08 PM
Just heard on ESPN News to expect a press conference or at least an annoucment from the Texans this afternoon about Casserly resigning.

GrandPa
05-10-2006, 02:10 PM
I am surprised to hear all this hatred for the man who helped bring Super Mario to the Texans. The way the boards have been lately, I thought we were all in agreement that this was the best decision/draft and the sports writers are just idiots for thinking otherwise.
I will make the assumption that you are joking...

If you are serious wait until the season starts...

Good riddence to Casserly, just look at our record after 4 years and the players taken in the all the drafts, the trades made and the overpriced free agents we have had to endure...

Far more misses than hits...

El Tejano
05-10-2006, 02:11 PM
Here is a quick look at Casserly's Press Conference to Houston:

http://images.quizilla.com/1034032958_CAndreaquizlumbergh.jpg

"Yeah, I'm gonna need yall to take some of that. Thanks. "

HJam72
05-10-2006, 02:22 PM
One bad year and you want to blow up the whole thing. Well, that takes you back to year one. Now instead of regressing in just one year with a chance to bounce back, you are going back to scratch and will have to wait once again to get to where you want to be. Sounds pretty darn silly to me.

You've been over that subject with a lot of people and I really don't see the point of going over it all again. Most people are completely unsatisfied with what this team has done since the time they got to 4-3 in their 3rd year by beating Jacksonville. That was great, but it's been a freaking wreck ever since. I understand that you feel this team just needed more time and I've seen that you show impressive debating skills at times also, but we are the first expasion team to EVER not have a winning season in it's first 4 years. Capers pretty much prevented Palmer from doing his job and allowed several other bad coaches to have free reign and ruin the team. He knows plenty enough about football to be a good HC, but he's not a good HC. He blows. He has some character traits that just screw it all up, but he'll be an excellent DC again. I should also say that he is very good at getting a brand new expansion team through those first few years, but can't seem to move on from there. He seems to hit a wall at a certain point in his (head) coaching progression.

Mike Kerns
05-10-2006, 02:24 PM
Here is a quick look at Casserly's Press Conference to Houston:

http://images.quizilla.com/1034032958_CAndreaquizlumbergh.jpg

"Yeah, I'm gonna need yall to take some of that. Thanks. "
lol:

El Tejano
05-10-2006, 02:30 PM
I don't know why, but that is the impression I've been getting since I heard he had a chance for that NFL job.

cuppacoffee
05-10-2006, 03:00 PM
Not when you think that most teams are smart and put players on their board so that they force teams like us to make guessing decisions.

I doubt that pro teams call each other and tell them who is on their draft boards.

You don't think that any GM would lie about who is on their board?

Only boards other than their own that they see are the same ones we see.

Boards that are nothing but guesses by the so called experts and MB posters.

Nice try though.

TexanFan881
05-10-2006, 03:14 PM
Hopefully they will broadcast it on ESPNews or one of the cable stations.

Sportsfan
05-10-2006, 03:14 PM
Here is a quick look at Casserly's Press Conference to Houston:

http://images.quizilla.com/1034032958_CAndreaquizlumbergh.jpg

"Yeah, I'm gonna need yall to take some of that. Thanks. "


LMAO!!

El Tejano
05-10-2006, 03:25 PM
I doubt that pro teams call each other and tell them who is on their draft boards.

You don't think that any GM would lie about who is on their board?

Only boards other than their own that they see are the same ones we see.

Boards that are nothing but guesses by the so called experts and MB posters.

Nice try though.

Dude, you basically reiterated my point. I believe alot of teams told us "Sure Cass, I got that guy #1. He is awesome and if you don't take him we will. But I guess if you do take him we will settle for Reggie Bush."

I have a thread called Hook, Line, and Sinker. Look it up.

beerlover
05-10-2006, 03:29 PM
its time to move into a new era, that of winning :yahoo: yet Casserly will have his footprints all over the Texans long after his departutre :chicken:

HoustonFrog
05-10-2006, 03:37 PM
Its official

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2440274

HJam72
05-10-2006, 03:51 PM
Well, at one time I really wanted EVERYONE replaced so I'm not gonna miss him. I'm just not totally sure anymore that it was necessary.

Texans34Life
05-10-2006, 03:58 PM
For you guys interested, the Texans are having a press conference live on NFL Network about Cass's resigning.

Mr. White
05-10-2006, 04:05 PM
The press conference is on 610 now.

Texans34Life
05-10-2006, 04:28 PM
If you missed the press conf on the NFL Network, NFL Live on ESPN is on. It's all the about the Texans.

phan1
05-10-2006, 04:54 PM
Like most people said, I think this draft is mostly due to Kubiak rather than Casserly.

On the other hand, maybe Casserly failed before mostly because of he didn't understand Caper's 3-4 D. Other than DRob, our defensive picks haven't been good. On the offensive end, he's been decent. Sure there were misses with Hollings and Juppro, but that happens. We've been OK at drafting offensive players, despite no wanting to draft lineman when it was clearly a need. Defensively, we've just been horrible. And the off-season moves on the defensive side have been even worse. Getting rid of Sharper was a terrible thing to do.

Either way, Getting Ron Hill or the Bronco's guy would be an upgrade.

tsip
05-10-2006, 05:35 PM
The Saints, I believe, took something like seven years to get to 7-9 -- something Capers accomplished in three. And it took 20 years for them to have a winning record. Try the Bengals. Paul Brown's team had a couple of bad years, then a good one, and then a horrible one. They didn't get rid of him, and two years later they won their division. And Tampa Bay wasn't all that great either. It takes time to build a winner, and for you to expect something like that after four years when the only thing these guys had to work with was raw rookies and NFL rejects is completely unrealistic.

I think he's talking about the recent teams like the Ravens/Jags/Browns/Panthers. Since you think you know 'everything,' which HC of those teams has the lowest winning percentage?

Exascor
05-10-2006, 05:37 PM
I think he's talking about the recent teams like the Ravens/Jags/Browns/Panthers. Since you think you know 'everything,' which HC of those teams has the lowest winning percentage?FYI...the Ravens weren't an expansion team. Not that it matters much...

tsip
05-10-2006, 05:58 PM
FYI...the Ravens weren't an expansion team. Not that it matters much...

The NFL considered them an expansion team, even though they were the old Browns. I'll see if I can find the 'old' posts on this subject.

Johnny Utah
05-10-2006, 06:03 PM
More bull. Where you get this "four years of bringing us down" when the team had just one year of regression is beyond me. You don't create immediate winners when all you have to choose from is NFL rejects and raw rookies. It takes time -- apparently something many folks aren't willing to offer up. But folks like this get what they deserve -- they find themselves constantly starting over and never getting even close to what they want.


....For whatever reason, all of Casserly's hard work, and he is known in league circles as tireless, didn't add up to many victories. Only one expansion franchise since 1976, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, recorded fewer wins (17) in its first four seasons than did the Texans 2002-2005. And the laughingstock Bucs actually advanced to the NFC championship game in their fourth season. In the Texans' fourth campaign, they won half as many games, two, as they did in their 2002 debut season.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2440388

Exascor
05-10-2006, 06:10 PM
The NFL considered them an expansion team, even though they were the old Browns. I'll see if I can find the 'old' posts on this subject.It's kinda silly to compare real expansion teams to one that has an entire staff and roster. They received no extra picks and had no expansion draft. Official or not, they aren't a real expansion team.

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 06:25 PM
Like most people said, I think this draft is mostly due to Kubiak rather than Casserly.

On the other hand, maybe Casserly failed before mostly because of he didn't understand Caper's 3-4 D. Other than DRob, our defensive picks haven't been good. On the offensive end, he's been decent. Sure there were misses with Hollings and Juppro, but that happens. We've been OK at drafting offensive players, despite no wanting to draft lineman when it was clearly a need. Defensively, we've just been horrible. And the off-season moves on the defensive side have been even worse. Getting rid of Sharper was a terrible thing to do.

Either way, Getting Ron Hill or the Bronco's guy would be an upgrade.
This is the basis for my desipsal towards Casserly. I felt that Capers was a good coach and that although he played close to the vest, he was building a team slowly. What bothers me about this is that Capers is left out to dry without good input from Casserly whom most regard as a rather weak GM. I would of loved to of had a GM that called the shots and gathered players FOR the coach instead of the coach spending too much time playing GM and not managing the team on the field. There have been many instances of strong GM's that get the players because they do their job, they manage and scout players, they don't let the coaches bare the burden of making the big and vast decisions of the team.

So long Casserly, maybe you can take a job where YOU do the job.

tsip
05-10-2006, 06:30 PM
It's kinda silly to compare real expansion teams to one that has an entire staff and roster. They received no extra picks and had no expansion draft. Official or not, they aren't a real expansion team.


...don't tell me, tell the NFL

...no extra picks?

"April 20, 1996: The Ravens conduct their first NFL draft. Their top selections include offensive tackle Jonathan Ogden and linebacker Ray Lewis (both first round), cornerback DeRon Jenkins (second) and wide receiver Jermaine Lewis (fifth)."

How did they get 2 1st round picks?

playerhater
05-10-2006, 06:31 PM
we wasn't sure who to pick for the number 1 pick until the day before the draft.

Less than 16 days later he decides to resign saying he wanted to work with the NFL offices. He probably had a job a week ago w/o telling the organization. I mean c'mon should've you told this to Bob McNair about your thoughts long time ago like before the draft.
If that happen then Casserly opinion wouldn't count on draft day.


It's like a quick cop out before he gets fired if Mario Williams doesn't live up to expectation.

Lossing 3 games on purpose for Mario Williams last season isn't even worth it.

By the way the gap between how good between Manny Lawson (22nd pick) and Mario Williams isn't that far. I wouldn't be surprise if Lawson ends up having a better season than Williams.

NederlandTexan
05-10-2006, 06:32 PM
I felt that Capers was a good coach and ..........
You lose all credability with this line.

mapleleaf
05-10-2006, 06:35 PM
I felt that Capers was a good coach and ..........

You are blinded to the facts.

Exascor
05-10-2006, 07:04 PM
NFL.com article

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9430063

Nawzer
05-10-2006, 07:28 PM
CC on 610 right now for those interested.

tsip
05-10-2006, 07:36 PM
" I felt that Capers was a good coach "

There were 9 HC changes in the NFL last year, meaning 9 teams were looking for new HC/new coordinators/ and new position coaches. 7 of those HC that left their old jobs (for whatever reason) were hired as a HC or coordinator by other teams--Tice,Sherman,Martz,Edwards,Haslett,Mularkey, and Turner. The other 2 'fired' HC's were Capers and Maraucci (don't know what his current situation is) and Capers was hired as a 'Special Asst to the HC' in Miami, which is basically a 'waiting' job for something better to come along...

If Capers is such a 'good' coach, why did no other team want him as a head coach, or coordinator, or even a defensive position coach? When he was fired from the Panthers, his buddy- Tom Coughlin - hired him as a DC, as no team came calling to hire him as a HC. Capers has never coached an establish NFL team as HC--what does Norm Turner have that Capers does not?

Lip service- no body in the NFL is going to talk bad about one of their own, so everyone talks about what a 'great guy/person' Capers is-no body in the NFL is talking about his coaching performance with the Texans....and, they don't have to. Why? They answer that question by not hiring him, except for his former coaching buddy (Saban), ala Caper's hiring Joe Pendry in Houston.

So, please explain 'how' Capers is a good coach--talking football, not character.:confused:

dat_boy_yec
05-10-2006, 07:53 PM
I think Casserly did a good job. I hope he has better luck elsewhere and whoever comes in can emmulate Casserly's dedication.

Revolution
05-10-2006, 08:00 PM
The NFL considered them an expansion team, even though they were the old Browns. I'll see if I can find the 'old' posts on this subject.


The Ravens were not an expansion team and were never given that description. If they were an expansion team, then the Titans were also. But this is not the case.

Revolution
05-10-2006, 08:00 PM
...don't tell me, tell the NFL

...no extra picks?

"April 20, 1996: The Ravens conduct their first NFL draft. Their top selections include offensive tackle Jonathan Ogden and linebacker Ray Lewis (both first round), cornerback DeRon Jenkins (second) and wide receiver Jermaine Lewis (fifth)."

How did they get 2 1st round picks?

Via a trade maybe???

tsip
05-10-2006, 10:06 PM
The Ravens were not an expansion team and were never given that description. If they were an expansion team, then the Titans were also. But this is not the case.

"A reactivated Cleveland Browns team would then begin play in 1999, while the relocated club would technically and legally be a new expansion team, the Ravens"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens

...hate to 'burst your bubble' but it is what it is---Ravens were officially an expansion team:yahoo:

Blake
05-10-2006, 10:20 PM
Meh. I dont think one GM vs another is that big of a difference. The head coach, and owner are all that matters.

Bobo
05-10-2006, 10:24 PM
"A reactivated Cleveland Browns team would then begin play in 1999, while the relocated club would technically and legally be a new expansion team, the Ravens"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Ravens

...hate to 'burst your bubble' but it is what it is---Ravens were officially an expansion team:yahoo:

Very interesting note. Good job.

Mr. White
05-10-2006, 10:26 PM
From the Ravens website

1995... 11/6 Cleveland Browns announced intention to move to Baltimore for 1996 season.
1996... 2/9 NFL approved franchise move.
2/15 Ted Marchibroda was named Baltimore Ravens 1st head coach 21 years and 1 month to the day he was hired by the then-Baltimore Colts in 1975.

It doesn't say anything about the Ravens being the expansion team.

From the Browns website

1999: Chris Palmer was named the ninth full-time head coach in Cleveland Browns history Jan. 21. The Browns were awarded the rights to the first pick in the 1999 NFL Draft and used the pick to select Kentucky quarterback Tim Couch. The first game at new Cleveland Browns Stadium was played on Aug. 21 against the Minnesota Vikings with the Vikings prevailing, 24-17. In the first regular season game in the Browns' 1999 commemorative season and the first regular-season game at Cleveland Browns Stadium, the Browns lost to the Pittsburgh Steelers, 43-0. The Browns recorded their first victory of the '99 season on Oct. 31 with a last-second Hail Mary pass from Tim Couch to Kevin Johnson.

But then again, it doesn't say the Browns were an expansion team either. Sure sounds like one though. "Awarded the rights"...."first draft pick".....

Also sounds like the NFL doesn't want to call the Browns an expansion team for some reason. idonno:

Mr. White
05-10-2006, 10:32 PM
They call the Browns an expansion team here....kinda....

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/history/draft/99_expansion.php

1999 Expansion Draft

1. OL Jim Pyne (Detroit)
2. DE Hurvin McCormack (Dallas)
3. OL Scott Rehberg (New England)
4. WR Damon Gibson (Cincinnati)
5. C Steve Gordon (San Francisco)
6. LB/FB Tarek Saleh (Carolina)
7. OL Jeff Buckey (Miami)
8. LB Jason Kyle (Seattle)
9. DE Rod Manuel (Pittsburgh)
10. LB Lenoy Jones (Tennessee)
11. DB Tim McTyer (Philadelphia)
12. LB Elijah Alexander (Indianapolis)
13. OT Pete Swanson (Kansas City)
14. DB Gerome Williams (San Diego)
15. DB Marlon Forbes (Chicago)
16. WR Justin Armour (Denver)
17. OL Paul Wiggins (Washington)
18. DB Duane Butler (Minnesota)
19. WR Fred Brock (Arizona)
20. DB Kory Blackwell (New York Giants)
21. DB Kevin Devine (Jacksonville)
22. DB Ray Jackson (Buffalo)
23. OL Jim Bundren (New York Jets)
24. OL Ben Cavil (Baltimore)
25. RB Michael Blair (Green Bay)
26. DL Antonio Anderson (Dallas)
27. OL Orlando Bobo (Minnesota)
28. LB James Williams (San Francisco)
29. QB Scott Milanovich (Tampa Bay)
30. DB Eric Stokes (Seattle)
31. RB Ronald Moore (Arizona)
32. FB Clarence Williams (Buffalo)
33. WR Freddie Solomon (Philadelphia)
34. DB Brandon Sanders (New York Giants)
35. DL Mike Thompson (Cincinnati)
36. RB Jerris McPhail (Detroit)
37. CB Antonio Langham (San Francisco)

And now that I think I totally derailed the thread, I'm out.

TitanPop
05-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Finally Moe can go back to Larry and Curly. Goodbye!!!

http://images.nfl.com/photos/img9430070.jpg

Stampede
05-10-2006, 11:04 PM
Take care Charlie, best of Luck to you wherever the road may lead.

Bobo
05-11-2006, 01:58 AM
What do you mean?The NFL lets you pick guys to start your team. Then you are given the TOP pick in every round to add to it. You basically can sign who you want and conssitently have high draft picks. That is called bad personnel moves. 2-14 is more than one year of regression. Under you argument Capers should have stayed too because we were headed in the right direction. It is a talent level thing mixed with coaching. They all were in it together and we are starting from scratch because of them.

Thanks, you have proven my point. The teams are able to freeze the folks they most want to keep, so you get the rejects and green as grass rookies. No, 2-14 is one year of regression. Yes, I would have kept Capers as well. If you would have had your way, Paul Brown would have never led his team to the divisional title two years after going 4-10 and neither Holmgren nor Cowher would have had their jobs since they both regressed -- expecially Cowher who went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. The Texans franchise has no patience whatsoever. That's why it will be just like the Arizona Cardinals. They will always blow everything up after one bad season and thus, with no continuity, will never get anywhere. New Orleans went 20 years before they had a winning season. By the time Kubiak is done, they could very well be halfway there by the time he is shown the door.

Bobo
05-11-2006, 01:59 AM
So Capers should still be here, he only had 1 bad year, correct?

Uh, yes, I've said that for a long time now.

tsip
05-11-2006, 02:55 AM
Thanks, you have proven my point. The teams are able to freeze the folks they most want to keep, so you get the rejects and green as grass rookies. No, 2-14 is one year of regression. Yes, I would have kept Capers as well. If you would have had your way, Paul Brown would have never led his team to the divisional title two years after going 4-10 and neither Holmgren nor Cowher would have had their jobs since they both regressed -- expecially Cowher who went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. The Texans franchise has no patience whatsoever. That's why it will be just like the Arizona Cardinals. They will always blow everything up after one bad season and thus, with no continuity, will never get anywhere. New Orleans went 20 years before they had a winning season. By the time Kubiak is done, they could very well be halfway there by the time he is shown the door.

...and then back to 15-1 with new coaches and players....
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05009/439393.stm

Tenure for an NFL HC is pretty much non-existent now a days, whether you win or lose. Look at some of the recent hires and how long they lasted- Mularkey, Calhoun, Turner, etc. Sherman had 1 losing season at GB after several winning seasons that included divisional championships and got the axe. Tice won at Minnesota, as did Martz in St Louis/Haslett in NO/and the list goes on and on. Capers was actually in a good position in Houston because he had a much longer 'leash/rope' to work with but blew that with his philosophies and inability to admit fault and make effective changes in a timely manner. He coached the Texans the same way he did the Panthers, learning little-if anything-from his mistakes the first try at being a HC. At both stops, his coaching led the team to a downward 'spiral.' Without a doubt, Fisher and Cowher are a rarity among NFL coaches with respect to their tenures. Why? I don't know. They are proven winners with 'bounce back' coaching ability. They are popular with the fans. They are respected by their players. They have 'special' relationships with the ownerships. Will Capers get another shot at being HC? If he does, he'd better be ware that-if he thought his 'rope was short' with an expansion team- he 'aint seen nothing yet.'

Ole Miss Texan
05-11-2006, 04:49 AM
Sure hope Capers gets a Hc job in the AFC south!

HoustonFrog
05-11-2006, 08:14 AM
Thanks, you have proven my point. The teams are able to freeze the folks they most want to keep, so you get the rejects and green as grass rookies. No, 2-14 is one year of regression. Yes, I would have kept Capers as well. If you would have had your way, Paul Brown would have never led his team to the divisional title two years after going 4-10 and neither Holmgren nor Cowher would have had their jobs since they both regressed -- expecially Cowher who went from 13-3 to 6-10 in two years. The Texans franchise has no patience whatsoever. That's why it will be just like the Arizona Cardinals. They will always blow everything up after one bad season and thus, with no continuity, will never get anywhere. New Orleans went 20 years before they had a winning season. By the time Kubiak is done, they could very well be halfway there by the time he is shown the door.

That proved nothing. They don't just put their scrubs out there..they put their good players they can't afford too. You are completely ignoring FA in other years also which should be strong due to the fact that you can build without dealing with bad contracts like some teams have and you have a fresh cap. Too bad we GAVE out bloated contracts to players that didn't work and we drafted in top positions players who didn't work. Some of these picks were traded away as well. Sorry but when you are the laughingstock and in 4 years you have one of the worst start up records in NFL history, well then you have done something wrong. 2-14 is a matter of talent and coaching. In simpler terms the personnel guy, Casserly and the coach, Capers. You lost all credibility when you said you would have kept Capers.

bigtex77
05-11-2006, 08:21 AM
I'm guessing that four years of an inept offense and inconsistent defense equals 1 year of regression in Bobo's world.