PDA

View Full Version : honestly, are we set at DB spots?


TexanFanInCC
05-09-2006, 02:26 AM
youngsters in cc brown and glen earl playing safety....and who is going to be the CB other than dunta to start? i hope not pbuc or faggins. any worthy free agents out there or rumors that im missing?

blockhead83
05-09-2006, 02:37 AM
The only half-way decent free agent CB's left are Ahmed Plummer and Ty Law, and we haven't brought either in for a look and I doubt we will. Casserly had a thing for PBuc when he was coming out of college, and he obviously still thought he had a chance to be a good corner when he traded a 2nd and 3rd choice for the guy based on the 3 games of tape he looked at. I think Buchanon could be better in the 4-3 than he was in the 3-4, but I'm not holding out hope for him to even play at a "good" level. I'll settle for mediocre, anything's better than watching him get picked on consistently like last year. I'm fairly certain they're planning to go into the season with the current roster in the secondary, which is surprising, but hopefully an improved pass rush will help take the focus off of how pitiful our secondary is aside of DRob.

hollywood_texan
05-09-2006, 02:43 AM
No, we are thin at DB. But a good front seven can help out a lot.

phan1
05-09-2006, 05:30 AM
It's really hard to have 2 good DBs on both sides of the field. "set" is really relative. Even if Buchanon hasn't been that great for us, most teams would still like to have the combination of DRob and Buchanon on their team. As for the secondary in general, Earl and Brown will hopefully come in and play well for us, cause I'm not sold on them at all. But they're young and can only get better.

thunderkyss
05-09-2006, 07:27 AM
I think we are really hurting at FreeSafety.... I think our corners are fine. 4-3, 3-4........ I don't think really matters for Buchannon........ the thing is that the front 7(regardless of front) has to do their job. Stop the run, and pressure the QB. If they can do that, and allow our FS to do his job....... coverage over the top, inside/outside help, then PB is going to shine. Last year, when he was pretty much playing like a safety(cueing in on the run, having to choose which route to cover), there really wasn't a lot that he could do.
PB provides good coverage, but he really plays the QB more than the WR.... which is why he gets beat, the way we played last year, but when the front 7 are doing their job, he'll get us a lot of turnovers too(INTs).

If the front 7 do their job, I bet you they stop throwing the ball to PBs side by mid season, maybe sooner, because he's going to hurt them.

TexanFan881
05-09-2006, 07:45 AM
As blockhead said there's not really anyone available except Ty Law and Plummer. The only way we could get one besides that is trading, and I find both of the scenarios unlikely. I look for us to stay with who we have this season because Kubiak said it was a strength for us.

SESupergenius
05-09-2006, 08:15 AM
I wonder how long it's going to be before Buchanon starts blaming somebody that he's not used right in the 4-3.

El Tejano
05-09-2006, 10:47 AM
What about that kid from Buffalo?

tsip
05-09-2006, 10:54 AM
...didn't we sign a free agent from the Patriots?...thought I read that in one of the many other posts on this subject...

Hulk75
05-09-2006, 11:08 AM
Really it would not shock me if Ty Law came walking in here. Unless they think our PASS rush is going to be great, which would really help out PBuc and DRob. A LOT.

chuckm
05-09-2006, 11:09 AM
...didn't we sign a free agent from the Patriots?...thought I read that in one of the many other posts on this subject...


Michael Stone

Malloy
05-09-2006, 11:09 AM
I think we are really hurting at FreeSafety.... I think our corners are fine. 4-3, 3-4........ I don't think really matters for Buchannon........ the thing is that the front 7(regardless of front) has to do their job. Stop the run, and pressure the QB. If they can do that, and allow our FS to do his job....... coverage over the top, inside/outside help, then PB is going to shine. Last year, when he was pretty much playing like a safety(cueing in on the run, having to choose which route to cover), there really wasn't a lot that he could do.
PB provides good coverage, but he really plays the QB more than the WR.... which is why he gets beat, the way we played last year, but when the front 7 are doing their job, he'll get us a lot of turnovers too(INTs).

If the front 7 do their job, I bet you they stop throwing the ball to PBs side by mid season, maybe sooner, because he's going to hurt them.

I pretty much agree with this. A more forceful pass-rush will make our secondary look WAY better. Even D-Rob will look better :)

LBC_Justin
05-09-2006, 11:19 AM
The only half-way decent free agent CB's left are Ahmed Plummer and Ty Law, and we haven't brought either in for a look and I doubt we will. Casserly had a thing for PBuc when he was coming out of college, and he obviously still thought he had a chance to be a good corner when he traded a 2nd and 3rd choice for the guy based on the 3 games of tape he looked at. I think Buchanon could be better in the 4-3 than he was in the 3-4, but I'm not holding out hope for him to even play at a "good" level. I'll settle for mediocre, anything's better than watching him get picked on consistently like last year. I'm fairly certain they're planning to go into the season with the current roster in the secondary, which is surprising, but hopefully an improved pass rush will help take the focus off of how pitiful our secondary is aside of DRob.
ummm our secondary isn't that bad. In fact it is one of the better groups in the league. When you have the worst pass rush in the NFL what could you expect. We probably ranked around 30th in sack but if you watch the film we were even worse than that, we very rarely ever put the opposing QB under "stress". Lets be honest even D-Rob didn't look that good last year. P-Buc will look like a new man if we start pressuring the QB.

As all the NFL experts always say. "You show me a great secondary and I'll show you a great pass rush right in front of them."

keyfro
05-09-2006, 12:00 PM
the problem with our defensive backfield is that both our starting safties are good against the run and poor against the pass...then pbuc is who is just too much of a moody player for me...he'll tackle when he wants to but that's too far and between to be a starter...faggins just doesn't have the talent IMO to be a starting corner right now...if he continues to develop he might be a decent starter at corner but right now i see our needs for next year being a number 2 corner and a starting FS along with a MLB

Hervoyel
05-09-2006, 12:08 PM
I wonder how long it's going to be before Buchanon starts blaming somebody that he's not used right in the 4-3.

Aww c'mon man, give him a few games to at least see if it gets any better before you start picturing him in full-on blame mode.

I'm hoping that an increase in pressure makes Buchanon start to look a lot better. I don't expect miracles to happen but I'm thinking he'll be pretty good if the line is bringing pressure and it should since they're now our teams self-proclaimed "strength".

the wonger need food
05-09-2006, 12:47 PM
I think we'll see more man coverage this year. It seemed like there was a lot of standing around last year. And maybe we'll finally see our best cover DB on the opposing team's best WR.

On a related note...

Texans | K. Curtis named NFL Europe's Defensive Player of the Week
Tue, 9 May 2006 07:32:37 -0700

NFLEurope.com reports Houston Texans S Kevin Curtis has been named NFL Europe's Defensive Player of Week 8 following an outstanding display during his Cologne Centurions 20-13 defeat of the league-leading Amsterdam Admirals.

tsip
05-09-2006, 12:47 PM
...from an AJ post about Kubiak comments at the luncheon...


"...and get used to the name Michael Stone. I thought he was just another name on the roster before today but Kubiak spoke very highly of him...."

Capers rarely spoke about particular players and 'what they brought to the table' or about decisions made during the course of a game. I believe Kubiak will give us fans more 'insight' into the 'nuts and bolts' of the team decision making process, including giving us specific info about our questions/concerns. So, while fans have concerns about the DB situation, I believe Kubiak is on top of it...

El Tejano
05-09-2006, 01:58 PM
I think as we get better we will see less and less of that though. I think at this point the Texans want us to know so that they can cover for the draft decision.

I believe that Kubiak saw alot of Michael Stone though so I'm sure he knows more than us about the dude.

CoastalTexan
05-09-2006, 02:26 PM
Anyone a Patriots fan and saw Stone play last year?

Tayton
05-09-2006, 03:09 PM
Stone is listed as a SS we need a CB to play opposite D Rob. That position will be tested all year if we don't address it.

stevo3883
05-09-2006, 03:13 PM
ummm our secondary isn't that bad. In fact it is one of the better groups in the league. When you have the worst pass rush in the NFL what could you expect. We probably ranked around 30th in sack but if you watch the film we were even worse than that, we very rarely ever put the opposing QB under "stress". Lets be honest even D-Rob didn't look that good last year. P-Buc will look like a new man if we start pressuring the QB.

As all the NFL experts always say. "You show me a great secondary and I'll show you a great pass rush right in front of them."

umm I think we were like 14th in sacks...

Zo Mourning
05-09-2006, 05:46 PM
I Thought the Texans should have adressed the secondary in the Draft.

Maybe Kubiak will inspire Pbuc to step up.

tsip
05-09-2006, 09:36 PM
Steelers have 7 DB's on their roster.
Pats have 9 DB's on their roster.
Texans have 17 DB's on their roster.

Obviously, this relates to quanity and not necessarily quality, but it does give a 'little' indication the FO is not ignoring the DB's.

slamdunc
05-10-2006, 07:07 AM
As blockhead said there's not really anyone available except Ty Law and Plummer. The only way we could get one besides that is trading, and I find both of the scenarios unlikely. I look for us to stay with who we have this season because Kubiak said it was a strength for us.
I agree...it will be difficult to get one now or in a trade. Haven't looked at any teams current cap situation, but someone may get released after June
1st. With good DB's are at a premium in this league, the cap casualties may not be able to play anyway...but you never know.

blockhead83
05-10-2006, 12:24 PM
ummm our secondary isn't that bad. In fact it is one of the better groups in the league. When you have the worst pass rush in the NFL what could you expect. We probably ranked around 30th in sack but if you watch the film we were even worse than that, we very rarely ever put the opposing QB under "stress". Lets be honest even D-Rob didn't look that good last year. P-Buc will look like a new man if we start pressuring the QB.

As all the NFL experts always say. "You show me a great secondary and I'll show you a great pass rush right in front of them."

Yea I hate to tell ya, but we were tied for 14th in the league in sacks last season with 37. You're right in saying DRob didn't even look good last year, he'll have to step up this season. PBuch was horrible, he got benched at what, like week 5 or 6 in favor of a career nickelback. Our safeties are both very green. Earl didn't start the whole season last year, and I can't count how many times CC Brown blew the coverage over the top. If you're around middle of the pack in sacks yet opposing QB's still have over a 100 rating on average, I'll bet somethings up with your secondary.

dwilt72
05-10-2006, 01:31 PM
Steelers have 7 DB's on their roster.
Pats have 9 DB's on their roster.
Texans have 17 DB's on their roster.

Obviously, this relates to quanity and not necessarily quality, but it does give a 'little' indication the FO is not ignoring the DB's.

Just because we have a bunch of DB's doesn't make me feel better. Unless PBuc plays better this year (and he may in a new system), we still only have one CB that would start on any other team and our safeties are really both more like strong safeties, better at tackling than coverage. Even if our pass rush is better, you still have to be within 5 yards of the receiver.

thunderkyss
05-10-2006, 01:37 PM
Yea I hate to tell ya, but we were tied for 14th in the league in sacks last season with 37. You're right in saying DRob didn't even look good last year, he'll have to step up this season. PBuch was horrible, he got benched at what, like week 5 or 6 in favor of a career nickelback. Our safeties are both very green. Earl didn't start the whole season last year, and I can't count how many times CC Brown blew the coverage over the top. If you're around middle of the pack in sacks yet opposing QB's still have over a 100 rating on average, I'll bet somethings up with your secondary.

Where are you finding this stat, and how do other QBs rate against the teams nearest us??

thunderkyss
05-10-2006, 02:49 PM
Here, on a percentage Basis (http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2005/regular?sort_col_1=11&_1:col_1=6&_1:col_2=11)

We had more sacks(37) than
New England(33)
Denver(28)
Cincinnati(16) all making the playoffs in 2005.
Indy(46)
Jax(47)
Pitt(47)
Seattle(50)

We allowed the opposing team to complete 64.8% of their passes.
Indy- 67.4%
Cinci- 62.4%
Jax- 59.1%
Seattle- 58%
Pittsburgh- 57.4%
New England- 56.2%
Denver- 56.1%

We allowed 3521 passing yards in 2005, 220.1 YPG
Denver 3643 yards, 227.7 ypg
Cincy 3569 yards, 223.1 ypg
Seattle 3559 yards, 222.4 ypg
Pitts- 3168 yards, 198 ypg
Indy- 3151 yards, 196.9 ypg
Jax- 2946 yards, 184.1 ypg

We gave up 24 passing touchdowns in 2005.
New England- 25
Jax- 22
Cincy- 21
Denver- 20
Seattle- 18
Indy- 17

As a team, we got 7 ints.... beating only Oakland(5)
New England- 10
Pitt- 15
Seattle- 16
Indy- 18
Jax- 19
Denver- 20
Cincy- 31

I don't know why I included Seattle in this little study, but I did.

I don't know what this proves either........

SanAntonioTexanFan
05-10-2006, 02:58 PM
Did anybody follow PBuc when he was with the Raiders? Was their pass rush any better than ours when he was there?

SESupergenius
05-10-2006, 03:10 PM
Aww c'mon man, give him a few games to at least see if it gets any better before you start picturing him in full-on blame mode.

I'm hoping that an increase in pressure makes Buchanon start to look a lot better. I don't expect miracles to happen but I'm thinking he'll be pretty good if the line is bringing pressure and it should since they're now our teams self-proclaimed "strength".
Hey I said early on after the firing of Capers that everyone deserves a new slate. I guess that includes Buchanon, but realistically he sucked for Oakland who used the 4-3 and 3-4 during his tenure. If you think that somehow he's going to suck up his weaknesses and not give an "ole" on tackles, then you belong in the "we are set" cornerback club. I've seen this guy play for 2 teams now and 3 different coaches, he is what he is. I belong in the "he's a nickel back" group.

Trap_Star
05-10-2006, 03:41 PM
Um... We had no pass rush!!!
[ "show me a secondary that can't cover and i'll show you defensive front that can't get to the quarterback" ]

The longer the QB has to spot his targets downfield it allows the wr to get open or break from his route, the safeties have to either cover the man deep or play the receiver in front of him causing him to be on an island, our safeties especially glenn earl will be able to play the pass considering he was a legitamate top pick minus his injury in college, brown can and will only get better, trust me if our defense can pressure the qb then our secondary will be great, PBUC will shine! he gambles alot and when he played on a defense that couldn't pressure the qb, the gambles he'd make will hurt more b/c if he loses that gamble the qb will be able to make a great throw cause he's not under pressure, if he had a defensive front that could pressure the qb he could gamble more and win more of those gambles from bad throws from a pressured qb. he takes alot of heat for tackling, but hey he's a db a (pure cover corner db at that) if our defense depended on him that much than ****, well thats why we drafted 2 players that will be on the defensive front. dunta well he's just great! and some people said well his #'s dropped well its the easiest thing to do is to not throw in his vicinity, well im just rambling on and most of y'all will skim through this and i have to get to studyin finals.

Better pass-rush does = better secondary, but at the same time we need corners that are willing to tackle.(D-rob the exception.)

Phillip Buchanon is the is the reincarnation of:
http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/east/nfl/3/slideshow/571/images/1.jpg
(Oh Matt, *reminiscing* :rolleyes: )

Texans_Chick
05-13-2006, 01:32 AM
...from an AJ post about Kubiak comments at the luncheon...


"...and get used to the name Michael Stone. I thought he was just another name on the roster before today but Kubiak spoke very highly of him...."

Capers rarely spoke about particular players and 'what they brought to the table' or about decisions made during the course of a game. I believe Kubiak will give us fans more 'insight' into the 'nuts and bolts' of the team decision making process, including giving us specific info about our questions/concerns. So, while fans have concerns about the DB situation, I believe Kubiak is on top of it...


Expect Kubiak to talk about specific player and try to find the positive in them and not say too much about the negative, mostly because being negative in the public about your players really doesn't help your team in the long run. (If you read every public statement Kubiak makes, you won't find much ugly specifics about players--probably because he was one).

As for the DB situation, I found this gem in the paper to be interesting:

Chronic link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3796503.html)

Cornering the market
Some think the Texans have a serious need at cornerback. With Dunta Robinson and Demarcus Faggins as the starters and Phillip Buchanon coming off the bench, they should be in the market for a corner.

"Phillip has the ability," coach Gary Kubiak said. "He's got to stay on the field. When you're looking at him as the third corner, that's a pretty talented young man."

Uh, Gary, you must have missed last season's Pittsburgh game in which Buchanon's matador attempt to tackle running back Willie Parker on a touchdown made him Public Enemy No. 1 with the fans and media.

"It's interesting you mention that play," Kubiak said. "When I came to Houston, I was passing Phillip in the tunnel one day, so we started talking. He brought it up to me.

"He said, 'I know you heard about my play against Pittsburgh.' I had no idea. I hadn't seen the play or talked about it.

"I do know he's an extremely talented young man. I know in Denver, we loved him when he came out of college. If I'm not mistaken, he's in the last year of his contract. It's a big year for him. We've expect to get his best effort."