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View Full Version : Interesting HPF article on draft day Blooper by our FO


gtexan02
05-05-2006, 09:43 AM
Interesting because it does not argue whether or not Williams was the right pick, but whether the FO handled the decision making process correctly, citing that bringing in Williams like we did will elicit so much fan, media, and team pressure, that he may be set up to fail. They give comparisons to Carr, but personally, I think DE has less scrutiny than QB, and therefore should be OK

So Williams will begin his Texan career on the same hot seat that Carr currently occupies, meaning he has to deliver yesterday in order to hold off the raging masses. If he doesn't, don't think we won't mention Bush's newest zip-and-zag dash to the goal line or Young's latest victory that he improbably pulled from the jaws of defeat. Because we will. The team has seen to it personally by screwing over another one of their first overall picks.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/slant/slant69.html

aj.
05-05-2006, 09:54 AM
Air Calvary? Is that a Middle Eastern airline or something?

Granted that the Texans had first choice of the three, like so many others who have either directly or indirectly piled on, the article is written with the assumption that Young and Bush will be highly successful and Mario is the one who needs to prove something.

With all due respect, the pressure is on all three young men and the respective orgs who selected them to prove something in the NFL, and do it at a very high level for a very long time.

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2006, 10:05 AM
Its funny that a lot media and message board writers assume that Reggie's the next Barry Sanders / Gale Sayers and that Vince is the next Favre / Mcnabb but they will not entertain the idea of Mario being the next Bruce Smith / Julius Peppers . Mario's got to prove what he can do while the other two are all ready being enshrined .

aj.
05-05-2006, 10:15 AM
Speaking of which ... and along those lines...

Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote several days ago .. although it wasn't picked up by anyone that I know of:

... sure, after weeks of being conditioned to Reggie Bush highlights and imagining him in a Texans uniform and in the Denver … err … Texans offense, yes, I was as shocked and stunned as everyone else when I heard the news come down on Friday night.

Plus, after realizing that Vince Young wasn’t in the cards, Bush would have been the perfect tonic for the debacle that was 2-14 last season. There’s no question that Bush would have energized fans all over the city. Jerseys would have been flying off the racks, and Bush would have continued to electrify -- as long as he was able to play up to the hype.

But isn’t that a given? Isn’t Reggie already being fitted for an ugly yellow blazer (size 42 short) for his induction ceremony into the Hall of Fame?

The reality is that we’ll never know what could have been with Bush (Reggie at least) in Houston. And we won’t know how things will turn out in New Orleans until they happen. Reggie is sharing a backfield with Deuce McAllister, who at 230 lbs. is an entirely different type of back than Bush. Will they become the newest version of thunder and lightning? With Drew Brees, Joe Horn and Donte Stallworth in the mix, the Saints should have a very exciting offense.

But will Bush live up to the Barry Sanders hype?

Who knows, but if he does, then shame on Texans for making a terrible decision last Saturday. If he doesn’t, then won’t this massive hate and ridicule campaign by media and “fans” against the Texans just make us look even more stupid?

For years people were venting their spleens against the Texans for not being able to rush the passer or protect the passer. So what happens? The Texans go out and get the highest rated defensive pass rusher in the draft and follow it up by drafting the SEC defensive player of the year to bolster the front seven, and then follow that up by picking two outstanding offensive tackle prospects - and we revolt?

Yes, we revolt because the Texans didn’t pick Mr. Hollywood, aka the next Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders and Moses (and I’m not talking about J.J.) all rolled into one.

Nothing against Reggie, but I’m kind of a blue collar guy myself and what little I know about Mario Williams is that he is a humble kid – a very big and extremely talented kid - from a very small town in North Carolina. He’s beyond excited to be here and thanking his lucky stars every day just to get a chance to play in the NFL in front of us – and we act like this.

Playing football is about the only thing that Mario Williams cares about, unlike Reggie, who seems equally or more concerned about his marketability as he does his playbook....

gtexan02
05-05-2006, 10:20 AM
Air Calvary? Is that a Middle Eastern airline or something?

Granted that the Texans had first choice of the three, like so many others who have either directly or indirectly piled on, the article is written with the assumption that Young and Bush will be highly successful and Mario is the one who needs to prove something.

With all due respect, the pressure is on all three young men and the respective orgs who selected them to prove something in the NFL, and do it at a very high level for a very long time.

I think the point they are trying to make in this article is that Reggie and Vince have to prove something during the season, but Williams has to prove something yesterday. People will watch Reggie and Vince, but allow them time and failures, while Williams mis-steps will be criticized on an instant. It isn't that only one of them has to prove himself, and it isn't that one of them isn't expected to succeed, its that when 1 of them fails (Williams), and they all will, but when Williams fails, he will be scrutinized much more ferociously then the other two. And, according to HPF, the Texans are at fault for that one

The media loves controversy, its what sells airtime and brings in the money. They will always try to make something out of nothing, and so even though everyone agress that all 3 of them will probably be superstars, the controversy of picking Williams first after what HPF believes to be smokescreening with Bush and Young, provides controversy. If the Saints had picked Williams #2, no one would be making the comparisons. Its only because we went out on a limb according to the media

GoneTexan
05-05-2006, 10:26 AM
Thanks for sharing AJ and GREAT Article (hope it makes it out to the media).

Let's support our team and Go TEXANS!

Honoring Earl 34
05-05-2006, 11:42 AM
The point that was wasted is that our team could have gone the easy route and drafted Vince . This would have pleased a lot of folks and sold jerseys and official VY clipboards while he watched . This while spending 75 million on QBs .

We could have picked media darling Reggie Bush and played it safe because if we fail the media will say " wow he was so good what happened " . Their would be a lot of jerseys sold also .

You cannot be great and not take risk and I for one applaud the Texans for walking the tight rope without a safety net . I believe that our first four picks have a chance to be the picks that help solidify our OL and be the cornerstone for the defense .

With Mario a workout freak and Demeco Ryans a smart intense player with huge intangibles , we may get the best mix since Reese's combined chocolate and peanut butter .

kastofsna
05-05-2006, 01:13 PM
Its funny that a lot media and message board writers assume that Reggie's the next Barry Sanders / Gale Sayers and that Vince is the next Favre / Mcnabb but they will not entertain the idea of Mario being the next Bruce Smith / Julius Peppers . Mario's got to prove what he can do while the other two are all ready being enshrined .
yeah everyone has called houston dumb, but no one seems to have thought that in order for a team to pass up on a prospect like bush, that the player who was taken must be pretty damn good himself. but that's what you get from the media. it's not always about who wins the games, but who loses the games.

Texans_Chick
05-05-2006, 02:45 PM
AJ's point is well taken.

The HPF's article's is not.


The draft is not just about a player. It is about gaming the system. It may be that the Texans wanted Mario all along and were hoping to trade down to get him and more.

Nobody would have believed we would take Leinart, so there was the hometown Vince thing, Bush, and Williams (a nobody would have complained about had we got a good trade down). You want to mentally prepare your fans, but at the same time, you wanted to see what the market might bring for the first pick.

We got kinda screwed with N.O. taking Brees, because their need for a QB wasn't as dire. So, there was no need to trade to #1 to get QB.

If we made it clear we wanted Williams, when everyone else said Bush was a no brainer, there is no incentive to trade with us for the #1 pick.

Teams have to walk a difficult line--one of doing what is right for the team (including trade downs if you can do it), but knowing that doing the right thing, and not being able to really prepare the fans for it, can make them cranky. This year, there was a perfect sheetstorm of circumstances that made it tough for the team (hometown guy, flashing "consensus 1" publicity guy), but you want to maintain the hype for the #1 pick if you want any value for it as a trade.

So, if that puts pressure on our first pick Mario, so be it. Pressure on top picks is silly anyway--it is difficult to be a rookie worth that much money in a cap era. But at the end of the day, I say pressure schmessure. It ain't like he is being shot at.

GP
05-05-2006, 03:55 PM
The impression I get from watching interviews with Mario, and how he has responded since that fateful Friday night, is that he feels he is worthy of being the first pick...of being picked BEFORE Bush.

And because of that--because of that confidence and unabashed swagger--I can't help but think that Mario has got what it takes to succeed.

I feel that the media's handling of this is more about selling papers and a whole lot less about calling it like it should be called. Two guys were at the top of the board. We didn't "reach," like Capers was famous for. We actually pulled off what most draft experts are calling "a great draft," and we've never been spoken of in those terms before.

We picked up two solid defensive guys in the first two rounds, and we picked up two solid o linemen back-to-back in the third. I've been watching every draft by the Texans, and I can honestly say that this draft "felt right," and I can't explain it with tangible evidence...but it just felt right, for the first time.

It felt like we were a Pitsburgh or a New England. It felt as though we were drafting not just players who were talented enough, but that we got players that will fit our current team needs and team philosophy. The other drafts felt like we were trying to be smarter than everyone else and grab up a guy who probably would have lasted a round or two later.

I dunno. I just think we did a heckuva' job...and it's the media's job to roast us even when we don't deserve it. It's what "they" do to Houston. NBA. MLB. NFL. If it's in Houston, it gets bashed 24-7. Unlike Dallas where the paper has never let their teams off a pedestal. You'd think they win titles every year the way they cover their sports teams.

TexansTrueFan
05-05-2006, 03:56 PM
Its funny that a lot media and message board writers assume that Reggie's the next Barry Sanders / Gale Sayers and that Vince is the next Favre / Mcnabb but they will not entertain the idea of Mario being the next Bruce Smith / Julius Peppers . Mario's got to prove what he can do while the other two are all ready being enshrined .


i agree, its just sports politics though. I mean he does have alot of pressure on him, but who doesnt beign the # 1 pick, plus beign taken ahead of bush the one everyone wanted has to make it even more pressure. But he's a good football player and i have confidence he can be a big time play maker for us !

Blake
05-05-2006, 04:37 PM
Great little article.

But isn’t that a given? Isn’t Reggie already being fitted for an ugly yellow blazer (size 42 short) for his induction ceremony into the Hall of Fame?
Great, just great. :)

nunusguy
05-05-2006, 05:01 PM
I think Mario has a lot to prove, not him personaly on the field, but Mario the
pick made by the Texans. VY was the hugely sentimental pick of the Texans
by their fans here in Houston, and Bush was the huge consensus pick by everyone outside of the city, to include all the football experts. Remember,
the poll conducted by Mornings News journalist Gosselin had the vast majority of the NFL teams with Bush as the BPA. Mario was the very, very
distant #2 pick.
So the Texans pick has far more pressure to just not succeed, but succeed
at a high level so the organizations upset pick of Bush and VY can be justified.

texplayer2
05-05-2006, 08:22 PM
Air Calvary? Is that a Middle Eastern airline or something?

Granted that the Texans had first choice of the three, like so many others who have either directly or indirectly piled on, the article is written with the assumption that Young and Bush will be highly successful and Mario is the one who needs to prove something.

With all due respect, the pressure is on all three young men and the respective orgs who selected them to prove something in the NFL, and do it at a very high level for a very long time.

V.Y. and Bush both played in at least one championship game and helped their teams avg.50pts. a game last year. Marios team with his Leadership was 7-5(3-5) in Conference. Who would have to prove they belonged at the next level more? Where is the greatest risk? The reason most articles are written that way is because a majority of them see it that way. Marios feat will be to prove the majority wrong in his career. And even if he is good and the other two are too he will never measure up for most people.

aj.
05-05-2006, 08:39 PM
Freeney and Peppers' teams finished 3rd in the Big East and ACC respectively in 2001. So you can't be a great player unless you're on a great team?

Wolf
05-05-2006, 08:40 PM
to put it in a nutshell.. people have complained about lack of pass protection and lack of pass rush.. well we went that route (like AJ said) and people still want the fancy pick.. I mean at sometime we had to go ugly... .. It reminds me of the Oilers and there picks of steinkuhler,mathews and munchack in the 1st round.. people hated it because it wasn't a "showtime" pick.. but those trench guys set the tone.. I can only hope that TJ and MW and Ryans along with drob can make a defense that will hurt you.

Wolf
05-05-2006, 08:42 PM
V.Y. and Bush both played in at least one championship game and helped their teams avg.50pts. a game last year. Marios team with his Leadership was 7-5(3-5) in Conference. Who would have to prove they belonged at the next level more? Where is the greatest risk? The reason most articles are written that way is because a majority of them see it that way. Marios feat will be to prove the majority wrong in his career. And even if he is good and the other two are too he will never measure up for most people.


what does that say about.Jay Cutler? ??

Bobo
05-05-2006, 11:53 PM
Interesting because it does not argue whether or not Williams was the right pick, but whether the FO handled the decision making process correctly, citing that bringing in Williams like we did will elicit so much fan, media, and team pressure, that he may be set up to fail.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Bush or ANY guy the Texans picked? No matter who they chose, they would have been subject to the same kind of fan, media and team pressure just because they were #1 choices.

TheRealJoker
05-06-2006, 12:02 AM
What was John Elway's college record?

texplayer2
05-06-2006, 12:22 AM
what does that say about.Jay Cutler? ??

He did good in the senior bowl and Combine. As for VY or RB you can look at their teams production and success and directly correlate it to these players worth on draft day and beyond. MW will need to come in here and anchor our D. AND help our team win( which didn't happen in college). Much more pressure when you have to rely on others to score for you.

aj.
05-06-2006, 04:07 AM
What was John Elway's college record?

Rhetorical question, probably, but I'll answer anyway.

He never went to a bowl game and lost more college games than he won. An outstanding talent on a mediocre team.

wicked_wayz
05-06-2006, 04:41 AM
Yeah I Agree Totalli That This Is By Far The Best Draft That We've Had

tex
05-06-2006, 05:51 AM
The media which HPF.com more or less is have always been a#$holes.

aj.
05-06-2006, 08:03 AM
hpf is a fan site run by Keith Weiland, one of the better writers out there and a huge fan like many of us. I often run into Keith at training camp and sometimes during the season and he is a great guy so you are terribly misinformed about that part of your assessment.

Unless the rules have changed, the Texans do not issue media credentials to fan site dot-coms so Keith and his guys have to scrape for their info any way they can get it - just like the rest of us.

Vinny
05-06-2006, 10:01 AM
hpf is a fan site run by Keith Weiland, one of the better writers out there and a huge fan like many of us. I often run into Keith at training camp and sometimes during the season and he is a great guy so you are misinformed about that part of your assessment.

Unless the rules have changed, the Texans do not issue media credentials to fan site dot-coms so Keith and his guys have to scrape for their info any way they can get it - just like the rest of us.
Keith is one of my favorite people in our community and has a great eye for talent imo, and does outstanding work for everyone on the cap projections as well. HPF is a collaborative effort of several fans who share the cost for that site, so there are many pov's from different writers. Just helping share...I know you (aj) know this already.

TwinSisters
05-06-2006, 10:20 AM
I have followed those guys for a long time too ( HPF.com ).

Aggies.

That's all that needs to be said. :)

Honoring Earl 34
05-06-2006, 10:33 AM
Vinny , does your Demeco avatar mean you see a lot in this guy ?

aj.
05-06-2006, 10:45 AM
I have followed those guys for a long time too ( HPF.com ).

Aggies.

That's all that needs to be said. :)

Keith went to UT.

edo783
05-06-2006, 11:35 AM
The amount of UT paranoia never ceases to amaze me.

Wolf
05-06-2006, 11:37 AM
Vinny/Aj.. are these the same guys that host www.neworleansprofootball.com also?

aj.
05-06-2006, 11:57 AM
Negative.

Vinny
05-06-2006, 12:00 PM
Vinny , does your Demeco avatar mean you see a lot in this guy ?
Outside of the NFL I watch more SEC football than anything else. I never thought Ryans would get past Seattle. I'm very excited about Ryans as he is high energy, intelligent, very instinctive, quick in short space, and a fantastic tackler. I think adding two first round talents to our front-7 is going to help us forget about last year a little easier.

thunderkyss
05-06-2006, 01:45 PM
Speaking of which ... and along those lines...

Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote several days ago .. although it wasn't picked up by anyone that I know of:

In all fairness, I have to disagree with your article, though well written.

You state if Reggie turns out to be the player "everyone" believes him to be, then the Texans will look dumb....... I don't agree.

The only way the Texans will look dumb, IMO, is if Reggie is all that, and the Texans have trouble moving the ball, and scoring touchdowns........ which I don't think we will.

If our offense is as prolific as the Colts, KC, or the Bengals, people will say, "what might have been?" but I don't think anyone will say the Texans made the wrong Choice......
Even if Mario isn't as dominating on Defense. IF we are moving the ball, and scoring, and still giving up 38 points, I don't see the argument, that we should've taken Reggie.


It'll go back to the decision to chose Carr of JP.

aj.
05-06-2006, 02:20 PM
That's fair. I write for the purpose of debate -- getting out an opinion or a pov which I know others will always disagree with.

BigDTexansFan
05-06-2006, 06:20 PM
Air Calvary? Is that a Middle Eastern airline or something?

Granted that the Texans had first choice of the three, like so many others who have either directly or indirectly piled on, the article is written with the assumption that Young and Bush will be highly successful and Mario is the one who needs to prove something.

With all due respect, the pressure is on all three young men and the respective orgs who selected them to prove something in the NFL, and do it at a very high level for a very long time.


ACTUALLY Super Mario has best shot at success, Bush will be running behind a weak-ss line in New Orleans and as soon as he can Bud Adams will force Vince into a game even if he is not ready. :crutch:

Blake
05-08-2006, 02:55 PM
Outside of the NFL I watch more SEC football than anything else. I never thought Ryans would get past Seattle. I'm very excited about Ryans as he is high energy, intelligent, very instinctive, quick in short space, and a fantastic tackler. I think adding two first round talents to our front-7 is going to help us forget about last year a little easier.

Can you believe they passed on him for Kelly Jennings! As a Hawks fan I would have been furious. But im not. So I dont really care.

Especially with Alan Zemaitis available with their 3rd round pick. I think Jennings is a huge reach. The run on CB's in the late first, early 2nd is amazing. What else is amazing is that there were 9 CB's taken in rounds 1 and 2, and only 13 the remaining 5 rounds.

aj.
05-08-2006, 04:48 PM
Don't forget the Seahawks already have Tatupu in the middle and Julian Peterson on the weakside.

Vinny
05-08-2006, 07:16 PM
Can you believe they passed on him for Kelly Jennings! As a Hawks fan I would have been furious. But im not. So I dont really care.

Especially with Alan Zemaitis available with their 3rd round pick. I think Jennings is a huge reach. The run on CB's in the late first, early 2nd is amazing. What else is amazing is that there were 9 CB's taken in rounds 1 and 2, and only 13 the remaining 5 rounds.
I was thinking Sharper may be in serious decline, so I thought they would look at him as a young replacement. Sharper may have more game left than I'm thinking...but his old wheels may have seen their best days. I also forgot they signed Julian Peterson as aj mentions, so perhaps we got lucky they weren't as desperate as us at LB.

aj.
05-08-2006, 07:42 PM
I was thinking Sharper may be in serious decline, so I thought they would look at him as a young replacement. Sharper may have more game left than I'm thinking...but his old wheels may have seen their best days. I also forgot they signed Julian Peterson as aj mentions, so perhaps we got lucky they weren't as desperate as us at LB.

Sharper was released by the Seahawks in March after playing in only 8 games last year. He is currently unemployed.

Vinny
05-08-2006, 07:43 PM
I guess they were going to replace him afterall....I'm just not keeping up. thanks.

Blake
05-09-2006, 06:37 PM
I guess they were going to replace him afterall....I'm just not keeping up. thanks.

I guess they are more pleased with the way Leroy Hill has come along. I like him as well. They went from a injury plagued corp, to a stud linbacker corp.

Kingsville66
05-10-2006, 02:41 PM
Considering Mario’s combination of size, shape, speed, athleticism, work ethic, and intelligence his potential is awesome. This kid is only three years out of high school. And he is just short of 6’8” and 300lbs and despite his build is extremely athletic. He will be able to carry at least 20 or more pounds and still run that 4.66 – 40 and 38” vertical leap. He started as a true freshman in college on a team that has no DC and had a different DC each of the seasons that followed. He had at least two different position coaches the one last season was shifted from his job as weight lifting coach. Mario spent the first half of last season trying to figure out him self how to defeat double team chop blocks. I can not imagine the beast that this kid could become with coaching from a legitimate NFL DL coach.

U4ikrob
05-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Sharper was released by the Seahawks in March after playing in only 8 games last year. He is currently unemployed.

Yea its true Sharper was released by Seattle in March of this year, but it wasnt because he wasnt producing before. He started the first eight games of last season at outside linebacker before getting a staph infection in his right knee. He eventually went on the season-ending injured-reserve list. and then came Rookie linebacker Leroy Hill who really took off in his place, making Sharper and the $17.5 million, five-year contract he signed last April expendable.

Too bad - I think hes a decent guy and a good depth/veteran leader on any ball club. I would bring him back here for the vet min if he would take it.

exclude
05-10-2006, 05:08 PM
yeah everyone has called houston dumb, but no one seems to have thought that in order for a team to pass up on a prospect like bush, that the player who was taken must be pretty damn good himself. but that's what you get from the media. it's not always about who wins the games, but who loses the games.

Thats the problem.

Not everyone thinks Mario is pretty damn good.

Everyone think's Bush is pretty damn good.

Everyone but the majority of Houston fans thinks Mario is just good, not damn good not awesome, just good. Like what the Philly fans thought of Mike Mamula.

Kingsville66
05-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Not every one thinks that Reggie Bush will have as much of an impact in the NFL as he has in college. Most experts feel that Mario Williams will be a better fit for the pro game. IMO they will both be game changers. Your brass thought that your D needed a game changer more than your O does. Let the kid prove it on the field before you dismiss him. He wanted to be in Houston. Your buddy Bush did not.

exclude
05-10-2006, 05:35 PM
He wanted to be in Houston because he was offered 26 Million.

Wouldn't you want to be if offered that much money???

thunderkyss
05-10-2006, 07:03 PM
Thats the problem.

Not everyone thinks Mario is pretty damn good.

Everyone think's Bush is pretty damn good.

Everyone but the majority of Houston fans thinks Mario is just good, not damn good not awesome, just good. Like what the Philly fans thought of Mike Mamula.

Sorry, I don't think Reggie Bush is pretty damn good... not as pretty damn good as Vince for sure.

I think Reggie is a situational player, a special teamer..... and you don't spend the #1 overall on a guy like that. At least the people who had to make the decision in 2006 didn't feel the value was there....... heck, if he were a true running back, carrying his team on his shoulders...... a la Rikki Williams...... then maybe someone would have traded up to get him...... Someone thought Michael Vick was worth it........ and he's more running back than QB.

But you go on, letting ESPN tell you who the really good players are... and act like a little girl, when your hometown team doesn't draft him, when they have the opportunity..... it seems to agree with you.

thunderkyss
05-10-2006, 07:24 PM
Thats the problem.

Not everyone thinks Mario is pretty damn good.

Everyone think's Bush is pretty damn good.

Everyone but the majority of Houston fans thinks Mario is just good, not damn good not awesome, just good. Like what the Philly fans thought of Mike Mamula.

I'm sorry for my previous post, and my attitude..... let me try this again.

Let's imagine, Kubiak drew up his offense, just before the draft. He said to himself........ "I think David Carr will have 3900 yards passing & 32 touchdown passes. Now I've given him Eric Moulds....... he'll probably get 1000 yards recieving. AJ will probably get about 1000. Putz will get us 800 yards. DD will have 400, Cook will have 500, Mathis, Armstrong & Walter will cover the difference.
Now if I add Reggie....... I'll have to fit him into this offense, taking touches away from my tightend, my Wide Recievers, my Full back, my starting running back, and the guys I'm developing for the future.
Well, lets see if I can add him to my running game..... I expect DD to get me 1500 rushing yards to go along with his 400 recieving yards, and 14 TDs...
That would match his total production from 2004. But if I'm going to get Reggie in there, I'll have to reduce DDs touches....... and pay Reggie more than I'm paying DD....... hmm...... I'm already upset from having to pay DD that much money, I really don't want to pay someone $54 mil to do what I could teach a monkey to do for the league minimum.
Dang..... if only there was a someone I could bring in, and safely assume he'll get double digit sacks....... If only there were someone like that in the draft.... hmm.... letme call 'ol Casserly, and see if anyone's on his Radar."

Kingsville66
05-11-2006, 09:36 AM
Spot on thunder!