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keyfro
05-02-2006, 05:27 PM
just thought i'd compare mario william's and julius pepper's junior year stats in college

Julius Peppers: Collected 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, one forced fumble and three interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown...Three interceptions ranked first in the country among defensive lineman

Mario Williams: Collected 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safty, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

some people have questioned super mario's effort throughout the season but he had more sacks and more forced fumbles than julius...any thoughts?

Texas
05-02-2006, 05:34 PM
We need to see how he does during the season..the NFL is a whole nother level!

wenskek
05-02-2006, 05:41 PM
mario is going to wreck shop for us for many years to come!

Nawzer
05-02-2006, 06:26 PM
I think Peppers had 10 sacks in his rookie year in the NFL and I think Mario at least has to have that many to have to be considered succesful. Now sacks aren't the only thing that determines success, but he also has to provide pressure, cause fumbles, deflections, and stop running plays. All these things will have to come into consideration when we talk about an impact defensive end player. And we'll have to wait and see if he's up to the challenge.

gtexan02
05-02-2006, 06:35 PM
We didn't need him. Babin had 15 sacks, and over 30 tackles for a loss his senior year. Granted he played in an easier conference, but he was doubled teamed all year AND Williams collected almost all of his sacks against weaker teams

Babins last 2 years:
2002 - 15 sacks and 26 tfls
2003 - 115 tackles, 15 sacks, 33 tfls

He may not have been productive as OLB, but remember, neither Williams NOR Babin have EVER played a down as an NFL Defensive End

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 06:37 PM
We didn't need him. Babin had 15 sacks, and over 30 tackles for a loss his senior year. Granted he played in an easier conference, but he was doubled teamed all year AND Williams collected almost all of his sacks against weaker teams

As did Peppers. Williams was doubled all the time. Lawsom got his #'s off Williams presence.

Brandon420tx
05-02-2006, 06:51 PM
We didn't need him. Babin had 15 sacks, and over 30 tackles for a loss his senior year. Granted he played in an easier conference, but he was doubled teamed all year AND Williams collected almost all of his sacks against weaker teams

Babins last 2 years:
2002 - 15 sacks and 26 tfls
2003 - 115 tackles, 15 sacks, 33 tfls


He may not have been productive as OLB, but remember, neither Williams NOR Babin have EVER played a down as an NFL Defensive End

Hopefully, we'll see Babin at DE more this year.

gtexan02
05-02-2006, 06:51 PM
As did Peppers. Williams was doubled all the time. Lawsom got his #'s off Williams presence.

Doubled Williams still couldn't produce as well as Doubled Babin. And ACC isn't the toughest division.

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 06:53 PM
Doubled Williams still couldn't produce as well as Doubled Babin. And ACC isn't the toughest division.

DI is always harder than DII, regardless of conference.

So...if you honestly think Babin could do the same job as Mario, then we'll stop this now while you run a lap.

HeroTime
05-02-2006, 07:00 PM
DI is always harder than DII, regardless of conference.

So...if you honestly think Babin could do the same job as Mario, then we'll stop this now while you run a lap.I did not know that WMU was DII, better alert the MAC.

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 07:06 PM
I did not know that WMU was DII, better alert the MAC.

DI-AA

something of the such.

But he was in the top division regardless.

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 07:07 PM
But if your done with that lap, and still debating with yourself if Babin is better than Mario...the door is that way ---->

just walk away while you still have a shred of dignity.

Erratic Assassin
05-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Some of his success might be attributable to his teammate. Having a freakish 6'6" 241 lb. NFL quality teammate who happens to run a 4.43 demanding a lot of attention can take a lot of pressure off a guy. How many other colleges had 2 defensive linemen good enough to be drafted at all much less have 2 taken in the first round? His teammate was the fastest lineman in the draft. I'd like to know how many double-teams Mario faced in college.

Kaiser Toro
05-02-2006, 07:32 PM
DI-AA

something of the such.

But he was in the top division regardless.

To set the recprd straight WMU is a Division I program in the MAC conference. Not DII, not DI-AA.

http://mac-sports.cstv.com/schools/wmu/mac-wmu-body.html

1337texanfan
05-02-2006, 08:23 PM
Doubled Williams still couldn't produce as well as Doubled Babin. And ACC isn't the toughest division.

plz that is some ROFL material there. babin is like 6'2, 256. he is built like a linebacker more then a DE. you seriously think babin could handle a solid LT. seriously mario is 6'7, 294, and he will get heavier. can someone give me a babin 40 time. i willing to bet it is in the 4.7-maybe 4.65. mario runs 40 in 4.7 and he is alot larger in stature then babin. he move alot swifter then you would expect. i am a football junkie so i watch all of the combine. i even found myself saying wow that a DE, he can really move. i wasn't saying i thought he was the 1st pick in the draft material. but i will say i was impressed on his shuttle and the coordination he showed in the Dline drills. he should have a good rookie season. tell you what if he ever gets that light switch turned on, and he figures out how to be great. he will be a force. with the right kind of coaching and right system that lets mario be mario and get after it every down. he could excel, if he is brought along the right way and not rushed. i hope he was serious when he told the reporter how he would celebrate being the first pick. he told her he was going to go workout. i hope seeing all those people booing him and wanting bush gives him a big chip on his shoulder. hope it fuels his fire to come out there every sunday dominate the line and make QB's fear him. i dont care who we put on that field honestly. all i care about is getting the Wins. if kubes says the offense is enough then who are we to say otherwise. the man has managed how many high powered offenses in the years. i will trust his judgement on how effective this offense can perform in the NFL. i was listening to the callers on 610 and all i here is"you cant win games without putting points on the board". well hell you cant win football games either if you cant keep the other team from punching it in everytime they touch the ball. people seem to forget that a good defense and a good offense can take you a long way in the NFL.

Napa Auto Parts
05-02-2006, 09:32 PM
I think Peppers had 10 sacks in his rookie year in the NFL and I think Mario at least has to have that many to have to be considered succesful. Now sacks aren't the only thing that determines success, but he also has to provide pressure, cause fumbles, deflections, and stop running plays. All these things will have to come into consideration when we talk about an impact defensive end player. And we'll have to wait and see if he's up to the challenge.



was it ten sacks to lazy to check but if you remember correctly peppers missed some time for some violating the leagues substance programs i think it was for some over the counter suplement. so the number of sacks might of been higher.

Eagles78
05-02-2006, 09:34 PM
Peppers' motor was questioned when he came out. Peppers got most of his sacks over a very small span of games against poor teams. Mario will rape, just like Peppers. :ok:
Mario Williams had three 3 sack games against bad teams and only 1 in the first five games. Oh well good luck this year. Cant wait for week 1. Eagles@Texans. Hopefully Williams will be a factor and will distract everyone from Kearse, Bunkley, Patterson, and Howard reaking havoc in the Texans backfield

1337texanfan
05-02-2006, 09:44 PM
Mario Williams had three 3 sack games against bad teams and only 1 in the first five games. Oh well good luck this year. Cant wait for week 1. Eagles@Texans. Hopefully Williams will be a factor and will distract everyone from Kearse, Bunkley, Patterson, and Howard reaking havoc in the Texans backfield


yeah kearse has been a real beast for the eagles defense. :ok: that dude fell off the NFL map after his first 2 years till he was FA and signed by the eagle, and then once again...fell off the face of the earth.

Eagles78
05-02-2006, 09:49 PM
yeah kearse has been a real beast for the eagles defense. :ok: that dude fell off the NFL map after his first 2 years till he was FA and signed by the eagle, and then once again...fell off the face of the earth.
Im looking forward to see Super Mario get owned by Jon Runyan:yahoo: And see David Carr on his back 70 percent of the game. To bad he doesnt have Reggie Bush to dump it off to. Oh well...

TheRealJoker
05-02-2006, 09:55 PM
Peppers had Ryan Sims playing next to him his entire career at UNC (Sims went # 6 overall to the Chiefs)

BigTimeTexanFan
05-02-2006, 09:55 PM
Although the Mario pick seemed to be a head scratcher at first and I was most definately surprised, I can understand the logic. Look at how many free agents we added to the offensive side of the ball. Look at the high priced (young) player on that side of the ball. I think of the colts when I think of teams that spend too much money on one side of the ball and neglect the other. The reason I said young players is because in the future we will have to make decisions on resigning these players. We do have some money tied up on the defensive side of the ball, but remember these are the older vets that need to be replaced. WE don't want to be in a position that we all of a sudden have a severe lack of players on the defense because we spend all our high draft picks and money on the offense. This is why the colts fail in the playoffs year in and year out. They are finally building a defense, but are also losing players on offense (Edge) because they simply cannot afford to keep everyone. This is why I understand the need to fill the defensive line with Mario.

bdiddy
05-02-2006, 09:58 PM
We didn't need him. Babin had 15 sacks, and over 30 tackles for a loss his senior year. Granted he played in an easier conference, but he was doubled teamed all year AND Williams collected almost all of his sacks against weaker teams

Babins last 2 years:
2002 - 15 sacks and 26 tfls
2003 - 115 tackles, 15 sacks, 33 tfls

He may not have been productive as OLB, but remember, neither Williams NOR Babin have EVER played a down as an NFL Defensive End

Dude, have you seen Williams? He makes Babin look like a safety. Simply put Williams is a genetic freak who is only 21. Once he gets some coaching and continues to grow he will be ridiculous. Wait until he is 25, the guy will weigh 320lb, run a 4.75, and have good technique. He has something Babin can never have, physical skills that put him in the top 1% of defenders in the NFL.

bdiddy
05-02-2006, 10:01 PM
I do not think that the Peppers vs. Williams comparison is really accurate. Once Mario is in the league a couple of years he is going to out weigh Peppers by 40lbs. If you want to talk physical skills it is more like a faster version of Reggie White (although probably not as strong). The only question w/ Mario is whether he has the brains to get his technique right to match his physical skills. He has freakish, once a decade physical skills.

Samer
05-02-2006, 10:12 PM
Im looking forward to see Super Mario get owned by Jon Runyan:yahoo: And see David Carr on his back 70 percent of the game. To bad he doesnt have Reggie Bush to dump it off to. Oh well...

I so hope Super Mario injuries Donovon in the first game of the season

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 10:19 PM
I so hope Super Mario injuries Donovon in the first game of the season

While I dont wish injury on anyone, I would like to see Donovon being forced to lick the grass until Mario removes his knee from his back.

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 10:25 PM
Mario Williams had three 3 sack games against bad teams and only 1 in the first five games. Oh well good luck this year. Cant wait for week 1. Eagles@Texans. Hopefully Williams will be a factor and will distract everyone from Kearse, Bunkley, Patterson, and Howard reaking havoc in the Texans backfield

Look at what Peppers did in college and when he did it, how he did it, and against who.

Kearse has done nothing recently and Howard is only decent now. Bunkley is your best DL, but if you want to compare:

Mario - All around stud, better than any of your D-linemen
T. Johnson - Bunkleys old running mate and last years #1 pick. A true one gap penatrator
R. Smith - A bear of a man who excells at run stuffing and bull rushing
Weaver - Big run stuffing DE who penetrates better than expected.

Kearse - Washed up, but should still put up 4 sacks this year
Bunkley - Inexperienced but your best guy. Will struggle against a new zone scheme thrown at him right away.
Patterson - Who really knows what you will get with him, but he is more of a run stuffing specialist
Howard - Aging, but still fairly productive.

Texans D-line > Eagles D-line

phantom17
05-02-2006, 11:08 PM
Im looking forward to see Super Mario get owned by Jon Runyan:yahoo: And see David Carr on his back 70 percent of the game. To bad he doesnt have Reggie Bush to dump it off to. Oh well...



Super Mario will be the one running past Runyon to pummel McNabb causing his mother to serve him alot of Campbell's chunky style noodles afterwards!:redtowel:

keyfro
05-02-2006, 11:15 PM
i think the best point is here that we do have a lot of talent at the DE position...we have the super beast aka mario williams...we have a run stopping de in weaver...and we have two undersized pass rushing DE's in sackin babin and antwan peek...i know mel kiper mentioned that he thought we should give babin a chance to start at DE this year and see what he is made of...the problem with that is babin was drafted for a reason to be the LOLB in the 3-4 defense we had...last time i checked we were not using the 3-4 defense anymore...personally i think it would serve us better to trade him to new england or pittsburgh so he can continue to progress...i think peek has more potential as a 4-3 DE than babin...i look at babin and i think his frame is already maxed out at 260lbs...i do not think he can add more weight to his frame...peek i think can get up to 275lbs...and that's probably pushing it...but if he can get to 268-270lbs...he would be a great weakside DE...weaver now is probably only here for a year or two...giving babin or peek the time needed to add the weight...kalu will only be here for a year tops...bottom line is we have great talent and potential across the D-line...and with the money we have on the line with these guys something better start happening quick

BigTimeTexanFan
05-02-2006, 11:32 PM
Didn't Babbin play in the 280's in college. He dropped some weight to maximize his 40 time for the combine.

YoungTexanFan
05-02-2006, 11:39 PM
Didn't Babbin play in the 280's in college. He dropped some weight to maximize his 40 time for the combine.

Babin was a good size during college and dropped a lot of weight to impress capers.

Babin has much more potential than Peek at DE in a 4-3.

MasterC25
05-03-2006, 12:30 AM
Mario Williams had three 3 sack games against bad teams and only 1 in the first five games. Oh well good luck this year. Cant wait for week 1. Eagles@Texans. Hopefully Williams will be a factor and will distract everyone from Kearse, Bunkley, Patterson, and Howard reaking havoc in the Texans backfield

I can't wait Williams vs. Justice thats going to be a good matchup for both.

Roughnecks
05-03-2006, 01:07 AM
Hey guys just got back from NY was at the draft and I have to say can not stand Jets fans. But it was sad to hear and see all the booing with Mario being drafted #1 yes he is no RB put our need was DL and a great pick I just hope we fans get behind him and let him know we are glad he is here lord knows what he needs now is that we love that he is here. I think he will be great and in a few years one of the best we have great coaches now and they will get this guy ready IMO I do not need 15 sacks if he his getting double team and others on that line are getting to the QB job done put two or three guys on him and let some of the others get the sacks hell they haven't been able to do it in 4 years besides the comparison of RB being Marshall, Sayers, Sanders, and even Payton think about it they did nit run off 2'3'4 superbowl rings because that what it comes down to we draft RB we go to the superbowl I just do not see it Mario will be fine hell lock how long it to Bags and Biggio to get us to the world series give him some time. And no I am not comparing Mario to the killer bees.

Texans_Chick
05-03-2006, 08:12 AM
I've already posted this, but it fits in this thread and is interesting from an expectations perspective:

Rookie Years:

Julius Peppers

Year Team................. G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2002 Carolina Panthers 12 35 28.0 7 12 1 21 21.0 21 0 4

5 forced fumbles

NFL Rookie of the Year

That year he became only the third player in NFL history to amass three sacks and an interception in the same game

Went to the Super Bowl his second year in the league.

Dwight Freeney

Year Team................. G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2002 Indianapolis Colts 16 41 40.0 1 13 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

9 forced fumbles

Runner up for defensive rookie of the year to Carolina's Julius Peppers

His 40 sacks in his first three seasons rank 3rd-most by a player to start an NFL career.

Reggie White

Stats for the old school folks aren't kept as well as current players.

Reggie launched his pro career with the USFL's Memphis Showboats (1984-85), posting 193 tackles (120 solo), 23.5 sacks and forcing 7 fumbles in 34 starts

Bruce Smith

YEAR TEAM .....G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF REC INT YDS TD
1985 BUFFALO 16 48 32 16 2 7 0 0 0 0 0

0 forced fumbles

He went from 7 sacks to 15 sacks from his rookie to second season. (This may be something to reflect about if people want to judge his performance based on his first season).

Hold the NFL record for most career quarterback sacks with 200

Played for 20 seasons. (That is sick by the way)


Courtney Brown

Year Team .................G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2000 Cleveland Browns 16 70 62.0 8 4.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 8

0 forced fumbles



I will finish up with some Julius Peppers draft notes.

Link: nfl.com

Prospect Profile

Julius Peppers
Position: Defensive End
College: North Carolina
Height: 6-6
Weight: 283
Hometown: Bailey, N.C.


ANALYSIS
Positives: Muscular athlete with a thick frame and well-defined upper torso … High-energy athlete who is very quick off the snap, easily slipping by blockers on stunts … Shows good arm power as he consistently outmuscles blockers in one-on-one situations … Very effective knifing through traffic, feeling pressure to react well while shedding blocks downfield … Chases hard to the opposite side of the field, determined to punish ball carriers with his forceful tackles … Shows a sharp short-area burst and is very comfortable making plays on the move … Displays the foot speed to get into the gaps, using his explosion to quickly flush the quarterback out of the pocket … Could shift inside to tackle at the pro level to take advantage of his agility and balance and punishing wrap-up tackling ability, but his quickness may be best served coming off the edge at end, especially in a 3-4 defensive alignment.


Negatives: Gets too upright at times, leading to misdirection as he tries to move through the pile … More of a straight-line charger, lacking the power to redirect inside, where he would be bounced around due to multiple blocks … Struggles to keep balance when sliding outside to contain the run … Poor hand usage will frequently see him get locked up by the blockers, as he allows them to get their hands into his chest.

blockhead83
05-03-2006, 08:25 AM
Just thought I'd do a little comparison between these two based on their draft profiles.

My source for Peppers: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profil...ers_julius.htm (Also used Gil Brandt's combine numbers for him).

My source for Mario: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3828410.html

These will be based on their 3 year career's in college and their combine numbers.

Mario: Peppers:
Height: 6'7 Height: 6'6
Weight: 294 Weight: 282

Combine
Mario: Peppers:
40: 4.73 40:4.74
Bench: 35 times Bench: 24 times
Vertical: 40 1/2 inch Vertical: 36 1/2 inch

Career:
Mario: Peppers:
Tackles: 126 (solo) Tackles: 128 (solo), 167 total
Sacks: 25 1/2 Sacks: 30 1/2
TFL: 55 1/2 TFL: 53
*TFL= Tackles for loss

Looks very comparable to me. Williams seems like the better athletic specimen while Peppers had slightly more production rushing the passer during his college career (5 more sacks over 3 years). If Williams can have a career in the ballpark of Peppers, look for our defense to improve by leaps and bounds. The 40 times I used changed form source to source, some having Williams as low as 4.66, and Peppers as low as 4.67 I think. Let's just say they're about the same speed in the 40, . If you'd care to add anymore statistics feel free.

*Edit* My spacing didn't come out right in the post, so be aware the numbers on the left are Mario, on the right are Peppers.

Hawg
05-03-2006, 08:32 AM
I mentioned it in a differnent thread but i think that Super Mario has a definite advantage over Peppers. Two words MAGICAL SHROOMS.

gtexan02
05-03-2006, 11:19 AM
I think people are misunderstanding my point here. I don't think that Mario is worse than Babin. I never would argue that Babin should be the better DE in the NFL. All I'm saying is that we already had a SERVICEABLE DE in Babin. Here, this should help. DD:Bush as Babin:Williams. They are both upgrades, but the problem is, running back is turning into a commission type job, and DD has shown injury concerns. Similarly, we already have good backup at the DE position in Kalu and Peek. So while Williams will be an instant upgrade over Babin, we should have used that upgrade somewhere else (OL or DB would have been even better than RB)

real
05-03-2006, 11:26 AM
DI is always harder than DII, regardless of conference.

So...if you honestly think Babin could do the same job as Mario, then we'll stop this now while you run a lap.


So just because u are DI that automatically means there is no one in DII who's better thatn u ?

gtexan02
05-03-2006, 11:37 AM
So just because u are DI that automatically means there is no one in DII who's better thatn u ?

Not to mention the fact that the MAC isn't DII, so I'm gonna sit back with my cold lemonade and watch you run that lap now.

just joking :redtowel:

Trapped
05-03-2006, 02:36 PM
I never thought i see anyone who runs faster(or as fast), stronger, bigger, and jump higher than Julius Peppers. Im glad he is on our team.

Peek and Babin will be good 3rd down rushers, as they will come in fresh.

Eagles78
05-03-2006, 05:59 PM
Look at what Peppers did in college and when he did it, how he did it, and against who.

Kearse has done nothing recently and Howard is only decent now. Bunkley is your best DL, but if you want to compare:

Mario - All around stud, better than any of your D-linemen
T. Johnson - Bunkleys old running mate and last years #1 pick. A true one gap penatrator
R. Smith - A bear of a man who excells at run stuffing and bull rushing
Weaver - Big run stuffing DE who penetrates better than expected.

Kearse - Washed up, but should still put up 4 sacks this year
Bunkley - Inexperienced but your best guy. Will struggle against a new zone scheme thrown at him right away.
Patterson - Who really knows what you will get with him, but he is more of a run stuffing specialist
Howard - Aging, but still fairly productive.

Texans D-line > Eagles D-line
lol: Wow. Just wow. The Texans defensive line shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breathe as the Eagles. What did Travis Johnson do in his first year? Nothing spectacular. Who's Weaver? R. Smith will be your best D-Lineman that day because the Eagles cant run the ball anyway. Texans are going to get demolished. The sooner you fans realize that sooner you can look forward to week 2. Enjoy Mario Williams

YoungTexanFan
05-03-2006, 07:32 PM
lol: Wow. Just wow. The Texans defensive line shouldnt even be mentioned in the same breathe as the Eagles. What did Travis Johnson do in his first year? Nothing spectacular. Who's Weaver? R. Smith will be your best D-Lineman that day because the Eagles cant run the ball anyway. Texans are going to get demolished. The sooner you fans realize that sooner you can look forward to week 2. Enjoy Mario Williams

TJ is a 1 gap penatrator who plays in a 4-3. Last year he spent time adjusting to the NFL and playing in a 3-4 as a DE. He is just slightly a level below Bunkley, but now he has had time to adjust to the NFL game speed.

Weaver, is a DE from Baltimore. He excells at run stopping, but is also moving back to a 4-3. I'm not saying we'll win, becuase I do not think we are a better team than the Eagles, all I was stating is that our D-line is better than yours. That is obvious. Then if you want to add in our depth, we have you owned.

txhoosier
05-03-2006, 08:47 PM
I so hope Super Mario injuries Donovon in the first game of the season
I can't believe I am seeing this crap from a supposed Texans fan. Texans fans have a LOT more class than this. I would imaging that you are either a Jags, Iggles, or Raider fan in disguise...What an idiotic post. Anyone who wishes injury on another player needs to be banned from posting, IMHO.

Now...on topic for the thread...my neighbor is a season ticket holder. He works with some guys who are NC Staters, and they are excited about this pick.

The knock on a lot of GOOD (even GREAT) DE's (Freeney especially) is that they are either good at pass rush, or stopping the run, but not both. Mario is good at both...he has the size to get in and stop the run, and the speed to get after the QB. As a Colts fan, this pick scares me more than Reggie Bush...because I don't like to think about him squashing Manning under that HUGE frame of his.

I'm excited to see what this guy will do this year (with the exception of those 2 divisional games... :D :D )

Oh...and WMU is a D1 program. LOL. (sorry, i just couldn't resist)

Youngstown Colt
05-03-2006, 09:12 PM
Peppers had Ryan Sims playing next to him his entire career at UNC (Sims went # 6 overall to the Chiefs)Um, that doesn't help your point when you see that Ryan Sims is a complete and utter failure when he has more than one man focusing on him.

Julius Peppers made Ryan Sims.

dat_boy_yec
05-03-2006, 09:21 PM
Um, that doesn't help your point when you see that Ryan Sims is a complete and utter failure when he has more than one man focusing on him.

Julius Peppers made Ryan Sims.
The same way Williams made Lawson?

Vinny
05-03-2006, 09:23 PM
How many other colleges had 2 defensive linemen good enough to be drafted at all much less have 2 taken in the first round? His teammate was the fastest lineman in the draft. I'd like to know how many double-teams Mario faced in college.
Hainsworth and Henderson (TN) - Stroud and Seymour (Georgia) come to mind off the top of my head as dominant DL tandems that went on to have successful individual careers in the near past.

Vinny
05-03-2006, 09:27 PM
I think people are misunderstanding my point here. I don't think that Mario is worse than Babin. I never would argue that Babin should be the better DE in the NFL. All I'm saying is that we already had a SERVICEABLE DE in Babin. Here, this should help. DD:Bush as Babin:Williams. They are both upgrades, but the problem is, running back is turning into a commission type job, and DD has shown injury concerns. Similarly, we already have good backup at the DE position in Kalu and Peek. So while Williams will be an instant upgrade over Babin, we should have used that upgrade somewhere else (OL or DB would have been even better than RB)Babin wasn't rated higly as a 4-3 defensive linemen and would not have been picked so high if he didn't go to a 3-4 team. His stock was high because he was a tweener who could play in a 3-4, but projected as a lesser pick in a 4-3. I think you are way off base on your postion.

TheRealJoker
05-03-2006, 09:35 PM
The same way Williams made Lawson?

Beat me to it!!!

YoungTexanFan
05-03-2006, 09:36 PM
The same way Williams made Lawson?

Williams made Lawson and McCargo who should not have gone in the top 50 at all. Buffalo had a horrible draft. Pure stupidity on their part.

keyfro
05-03-2006, 09:54 PM
vinny just to add to your list casey hampton and shaun rogers for UT...i remember watching that tandom in college...you could not run up the middle against the longhorns those years...my point when i started this thread was to point out every espn "draft expert" was simply wrong...my least favorite is woody paige who keep saying that mario only had 11 sacks in his last 23 games...huh wrong...not even close to being right...skip bayless...personally my opinion of him is the same as steve young as an football annyalsist...change the channel and do it before young opens his mouth...both of those guys make everyone's IQ drop just for listening to them

mario williams was not overrated as a prospect coming out of college...everyone expecting around 10 sacks this season from the rookie are not expecting too much IMO...you are a #1 overall pick at DE you should be able to get double digit sacks per season for the vast majority of your career...i'm sure some people have a different opinion and that's fine...i'm expecting atleast 10 sacks this year from the super beast mario williams...i'm expecting a lot from this defensive line who has a ton of money designated to it...to me a d-line with that much money should be producing a lot of sacks and i cannot wait for the season to start

BigTimeTexanFan
05-03-2006, 10:15 PM
vinny just to add to your list casey hampton and shaun rogers for UT...i remember watching that tandom in college...you could not run up the middle against the longhorns those years...my point when i started this thread was to point out every espn "draft expert" was simply wrong...my least favorite is woody paige who keep saying that mario only had 11 sacks in his last 23 games...huh wrong...not even close to being right...skip bayless...personally my opinion of him is the same as steve young as an football annyalsist...change the channel and do it before young opens his mouth...both of those guys make everyone's IQ drop just for listening to them

mario williams was not overrated as a prospect coming out of college...everyone expecting around 10 sacks this season from the rookie are not expecting too much IMO...you are a #1 overall pick at DE you should be able to get double digit sacks per season for the vast majority of your career...i'm sure some people have a different opinion and that's fine...i'm expecting atleast 10 sacks this year from the super beast mario williams...i'm expecting a lot from this defensive line who has a ton of money designated to it...to me a d-line with that much money should be producing a lot of sacks and i cannot wait for the season to start
Skip Bayless and Woddy Paige are both tools that come from the same school of reporting that Richard justice attended.

I also think our Dline should be much improved. TJ will be moving back to a more natural position add to the fact that a lot of attention should be paid to Mario, freeing up other Dlineman to make plays. TJ was a highly regarded defensive prospect who I think was hampered by the previous coaching staff as everyone else was. This season should be a lot of fun

tex2theend
05-03-2006, 10:25 PM
How about the Eagles fan talking smack?? Say hello to TO and the great receiver you got from the Texans for us would you? Do we even need CB's when we play the Eagles?? RUN DONOVAN RUN!!!!!

phan1
05-04-2006, 12:23 AM
Well, with TO gone, it looks like you guys are left with the same crappy WR core you had in '04 that lost you the NFC championship game against Carolina. Gaffney is going to be your new #1 WR? HAH! Donavan is going to have to start using his legs again to get this offense moving. Westbrook will have to carry the load as well. Be fortunate that Donovan is a very good QB. How he took you guys to NFC championship games before TO was a great accomplishment on his part.

On the flip side I'm very happy to be facing your defense. With your blitzing schemes, we're going to know immediately know where our offense (Carr specifically) stands. Heaven or hell starts on week 1.

That being said, I can't wait.

MasterC25
05-04-2006, 01:15 AM
TJ is a 1 gap penatrator who plays in a 4-3. Last year he spent time adjusting to the NFL and playing in a 3-4 as a DE. He is just slightly a level below Bunkley, but now he has had time to adjust to the NFL game speed.

Weaver, is a DE from Baltimore. He excells at run stopping, but is also moving back to a 4-3. I'm not saying we'll win, becuase I do not think we are a better team than the Eagles, all I was stating is that our D-line is better than yours. That is obvious. Then if you want to add in our depth, we have you owned.


If T.J was slightly a level below Bunkley, then Bunkley would have started in 2004 at FSU at the UT position which he did not. TJ did, T.J was regarded higher for his penetration into offenses then Bunkley has been during this draft coverage. What helped Bunkley was his impressive combine stats. But as far as playing T.J was the man

Trapped
05-04-2006, 01:37 AM
If he was slightly a level below Bunkley, then Bunkley would have started in 2004 which he did not. TJ did.
Bunkley coming out has a higher grade than TJ.

TJ has upside though, regarded as the top dlineman coming out of highschool, he had a decent sophomore season, but he didn't show any improvement his junior season, im guessing he was distracted by off the field issues.

But when the smoked cleared, in his senior season he emerged again and became the top rated dt in the 2005 draft. If TJ is dedicated he has the tools to be a great DT.

Yes, there were at Florida St. together, but Bunkley was a year younger than TJ. Overall, both have similar grades.

Seeing Red
05-04-2006, 01:43 AM
Even if Mario is not getting sacks himself, his raw ability will draw double teams and free up others to make plays. Look for our linebackers to thrive and T.J. to be a huge suprise this year.

I cant wait till our home opener.
Go Texans!

Huge1
05-04-2006, 02:13 AM
Some of his success might be attributable to his teammate. Having a freakish 6'6" 241 lb. NFL quality teammate who happens to run a 4.43 demanding a lot of attention can take a lot of pressure off a guy. How many other colleges had 2 defensive linemen good enough to be drafted at all much less have 2 taken in the first round? His teammate was the fastest lineman in the draft. I'd like to know how many double-teams Mario faced in college.

Make that 3 D linemen taken in the 1st round. Though McCargo should have never been drafted there. Buffalo's draft was a joke.

Youngstown Colt
05-04-2006, 09:58 AM
The same way Williams made Lawson?Maybe you're not understanding what I was responding to. He was implying that Sims was the reason for Peppers college success, not the other way around.

Manny Lawson made his own plays in college. He was definately helped by Williams, but he wasn't the chump that Ryan Sims was.

keyfro
05-04-2006, 10:10 AM
in regards to the eagles...bunkley is going to be a great DT for years to come...TJ is going to be a great DT for years to come...they just have different styles of playing...TJ is more like warren sapp and Bunkley is more like tommie harris...basically pick your poison...both will be great mark my words...the recieving corp for phili is not going to be scary...you got reggie brown, jabar gaffney, and greg lewis i think...none of those guys are speed guys...none of those guys can stretch a field...but those guys can catch so if andy reid does a bunch of short to intermediate length passes the eagles can succeed...but with their division it's going to be extremely hard

zeplin
05-04-2006, 11:03 AM
just thought i'd compare mario william's and julius pepper's junior year stats in college

Julius Peppers: Collected 63 tackles, 9.5 sacks, one forced fumble and three interceptions, including one returned for a touchdown...Three interceptions ranked first in the country among defensive lineman

Mario Williams: Collected 62 tackles, 14.5 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 1 safty, 4 fumble recoveries, 27.5 tackles for loss

some people have questioned super mario's effort throughout the season but he had more sacks and more forced fumbles than julius...any thoughts?

I think that he was a man among boys in college and he will do well at the next level. I thought he was a inspired #1 pick.. The popular choice is not allways the best choice.

stevo3883
05-04-2006, 11:06 AM
Hainsworth and Henderson (TN) - Stroud and Seymour (Georgia) come to mind off the top of my head as dominant DL tandems that went on to have successful individual careers in the near past.


vinny.... how could you forget the best there ever was??

Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton!

Sutton=08Heisman
05-04-2006, 06:23 PM
I mentioned it in a differnent thread but i think that Super Mario has a definite advantage over Peppers. Two words MAGICAL SHROOMS.


hahahahaha

Kingsville66
05-13-2006, 11:28 PM
While you are comparing there league records don’t forget that the ACC Peppers played in and the one Mario played in are vastly different leagues. Miami, Virginia Tech, & Boston College were all added after Pep’s playing days. IMHO Mario has the potential to be a super beast. The challenge for your staff will be to bring the beast out of him. He is a nice guy by nature.

Eagles78
05-14-2006, 08:11 AM
How about the Eagles fan talking smack?? Say hello to TO and the great receiver you got from the Texans for us would you? Do we even need CB's when we play the Eagles?? RUN DONOVAN RUN!!!!!
Im sure McNabb is shaking at the mighty Texans defense. :rolleyes:

YoungTexanFan
05-14-2006, 08:14 AM
Im sure McNabb is shaking at the mighty Texans defense. :rolleyes:

Well, a more athletic Pepers is going to rip his shoe off and make him eat it the first time he tries to roll out. :)

wicked_wayz
05-14-2006, 08:27 AM
man its gonna be a awesome between the eagles and texans

sprtsfanatic
05-14-2006, 10:56 AM
just to add my 2 cents...the eagles offense does not scare me especially with TO gone and westbrook getting old and ineffective....what will concern me is how quickly our defensive players can learn the new system and play as a TEAM. The addition of super mario will undoubtedly (SP?) help the line play and its play as a unit....just as flanagan will help in the same regards to the O line.

Hulk75
05-14-2006, 05:22 PM
mario is going to wreck shop for us for many years to come!
AGREED...........Nice stat find above!

TheOgre
05-15-2006, 11:03 AM
Im sure McNabb is shaking at the mighty Texans defense. :rolleyes:

I think the front seven of the Texans is marketly improved. However, I think McNabb will pick our secondary apart. I could easily see a game close going into the second half and then the Eagles pull away. Final score something like 27-17.