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View Full Version : Which player is more part-time, Bush or Williams?


Porky
05-02-2006, 10:50 AM
Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall

the wonger need food
05-02-2006, 10:58 AM
Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?

Kaiser Toro
05-02-2006, 11:01 AM
What if Bush does not make it to training camp because of a hold out and winds up not getting 20 touches per game?

Hookem Horns
05-02-2006, 11:06 AM
You're comparision to Andre Johnson doesn't work because while he is not touching the ball every down, he is lining up most downs. "Leon" is often on the sidelines while the true running back is in there mostly against the faster defenses. That was according to the USC coaches.

Casserly isn't spinning anything. I can't stand Casserly anymore than the next guy and I have vented here about that before, however what he is saying about Bush was what I was saying before the draft. I called him a part time player also. The fact he was on the sidelines during most of the 4th QTR in the Rose Bowl and not in there when the game was on the line spoke volumes.

Porky
05-02-2006, 11:12 AM
He will be on the field for more than 20 snaps. He should be out there for 40 or so, with 20-25 touches. Sorry, I am not buying this whole part time player thing. It's pure spin.

Texans Horror
05-02-2006, 11:17 AM
Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall

The problem I find with the logic is the subjective term "impact." If Reggie touches the ball ten times but still runs 100+ yards a game, is that more of an impact than Mario touching the ball, for example, 5 times, but each is for a sack for a loss?

IMO, the only way to look at it objectively is the simple numbers of 60 vs. 20. Mario will be on the field more than Bush, and that was the point Cass was trying to make.

Double Barrel
05-02-2006, 11:18 AM
Both players are potentially impact players, just on different sides of the ball. Bush would have added dimension to our offense, because we'd have multiple players that could demand double teams. But a presence like Mario on your line (with Weaver on the other end) also causes enemy offenses to gameplan accordingly.

Our head coach decided that our defense needed the pick more than our offense, so hey, it's his team and it's and understandable choice.

I don't think either pick was "wrong", except in the eyes of fans.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2006, 11:19 AM
Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?

I would say yes. Weaver may be teh most benefitted by Williams being drafted.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-02-2006, 11:20 AM
He will be on the field for more than 20 snaps. He should be out there for 40 or so, with 20-25 touches. Sorry, I am not buying this whole part time player thing. It's pure spin.


If bush carries the ball 20-25 touches per game, he will not last past midseason as his little body is not conditioned for that type of punishment. teams did not respect the Saints passing attack, therefore many teams are going to load the box and go right after him.

gg no re
05-02-2006, 11:39 AM
Not to mention that NFC South defenses don't seem as forgiving as Pac-10 defenses.

kingh99
05-02-2006, 11:46 AM
Porky stop it. I'm the Texans offense and I'm already beautiful. Reggie Bush would be like really long annoying earrings. Who needs those awful things when you look like this?

gtexan02
05-02-2006, 11:46 AM
Just because BUsh touches the ball 20 times a game, doesn't mean he only lines up 20 times a game. Lets say we run and pass on a 50/50 split. That means that if Bush runs 20 times a game, he is lining up 40 times and not getting the ball. Its exactly the same as Williams lining up and the team running ot the opposite side. They have to account for him even if he isn't carrying. 20 touches is not realistic

Bobo
05-02-2006, 11:57 AM
Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall

Umm, the job for RBs is to touch the ball and gain yards in the process. The object for the DE is to "touch" the RBs, the QBs or to hurry the throws and cause INTs. Williams will be on the field doing that every time the defense is on the field. Fact is, Williams will be on the field doing his job much more than Bush would have. You are really stretching it.

AtheGreat
05-02-2006, 11:58 AM
I would say yes. Weaver may be teh most benefitted by Williams being drafted.

Im sure that our linebackers wouldn't be hurt by that. If you can guess on a double team, blow up that inside gap with a blitzing LB and wrek havoc in the backfield.

Bobo
05-02-2006, 11:58 AM
Just because BUsh touches the ball 20 times a game, doesn't mean he only lines up 20 times a game. Lets say we run and pass on a 50/50 split. That means that if Bush runs 20 times a game, he is lining up 40 times and not getting the ball. Its exactly the same as Williams lining up and the team running ot the opposite side. They have to account for him even if he isn't carrying. 20 touches is not realistic

If you aren't stopping the other team, then NOBODY is getting any touches or line ups or anything. The offense is sitting on the sidelines, getting paid for nothing.

David's Busted Carr
05-02-2006, 12:00 PM
The only reason Lawson & McCargo (the other 2 NC State DL) were drafted in the first round was b/c of Mario Williams. Because even when he wasn't "making plays" he would always command at least a double team which freed up the other players to make plays.

Thus by geting him it improves Travis Johnson (another 1st round pick), Anothony Weaver, & Robaire Smith. Not only that, but it helps keeps lineman off of our linebackers to help them makes plays which in turn helps the secondary.

Therefore you keep Mario on the field every down he has an impact on EVERY play whether he gets a sack or tackle or not.

kingh99
05-02-2006, 12:16 PM
If you aren't stopping the other team, then NOBODY is getting any touches or line ups or anything. The offense is sitting on the sidelines, getting paid for nothing.

They didn't stop anyone because they saw Uncle Joe planning the next 3 plays and Fly Trap mouth staring blankly on the sidelines. That's tough to get up for.

Errant Hothy
05-02-2006, 12:18 PM
The only reason Lawson & McCargo (the other 2 NC State DL) were drafted in the first round was b/c of Mario Williams. Because even when he wasn't "making plays" he would always command at least a double team which freed up the other players to make plays.

Thus by geting him it improves Travis Johnson (another 1st round pick), Anothony Weaver, & Robaire Smith. Not only that, but it helps keeps lineman off of our linebackers to help them makes plays which in turn helps the secondary.

Therefore you keep Mario on the field every down he has an impact on EVERY play whether he gets a sack or tackle or not.

Exactly.

Reminds me of Peppers and Simms being drafted in the same year.

Texas
05-02-2006, 12:45 PM
This is a nobrainer...Bush

real
05-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?


I think he meant direct impact, because just having RB on the field changes how the defense plays...

Texans86
05-02-2006, 12:53 PM
Hey, last time I checked, the draft was over, and we had Mario on our team. Maybe I completely dreamed this entire past weekend up. It doesn't matter if Reggie runs for 50000 yeards next season, he isn't on our team. Give it up, please.

ccdude730
05-02-2006, 01:04 PM
someones been sippin on that hateraid

what gets me is that everyone is saying bush is the most exciting and dynamic player to ever come out of college football. now 7 other teams had williams rated higher. what does that say about mario?

probably he is one of the best players to come out of college as well! this is a guy who will impact our defense greater than bush would have affected our offense IMO. bush even getting 20 touches is well over what i would imagine he could handle.

bush was the flashy pick that alot of people wanted because of his highlights and those fans have refused to take a step back and look at what is best for our football team. defense wins championships and if thats why they drafted 2 great defensive players (might as well include ryans), then maybe that is what we are trying to build here - a championship team. i sure am excited about that :redtowel: :redtowel:

Caz
05-02-2006, 01:29 PM
You Texan Fans complaining about the pick will be praising it later. Reggie Bush is this ages Barry Sanders. An exciting football player to watch. He is no different to RB's as Michael Vick is to QB's. All that talent and now the Saints are inheriting the pain you would of had. They now need to use whats left over of their money to field a team. Ask Barry Sanders how that worked out in Detroit. How many Super Bowls did Barry Sanders win? Better yet how many times did he even make the playoffs?

I challenge all of you to name the top 5 RB in the league today and total the number of Superbowls they have won?

Lets look at the last 5 Superbowls and the RB' they had:

1. Pittsburgh - Willie Parker - Hall of Famer? I think not.
2. New England - Corey Dillion - Hall of Famer? Probably. Exciting to watch? No.
3. New England - Antoine Smith- Hall of Famer? Na
4. Tampa Bay - Michael Pittman - Hall of Famer? Nope.
5. New England - Antoine Smith - See above.

There you have it. 1 Probable HOFer. But nobody on this list is exciting to watch nor are they a top 5 back in the NFL. Even when Dillion was consider up there, that wasn't enough to help the Bungles. What do the last 5 teams have in common though?

Maybe a great defense? Actually if you go back the last 6 SB's Jamal Lewis was a good back when the Ravens won but what got them to that point? Wasn't it their defense that was talked about the most?

You do the math. This pick is not nearly as bad as you think. And your tone will change very soon trust me. DD is sufficent enough for what you need. He is Reggie Bush without the speed and hype. Reggie Bush runs, catches, returns. Didn't DD do that for you guys? Not as explosive but you still have a back thats going to do close to the same things. And Carr will most likely spend a lot more of the season upright with the other needs they filled.

Keep your heads up. I am not a Texan fan but I like what they are doing over there. They actually filled needs as opposed to what people thought they should do. Hats off the Charley Casserly and the whole front office. It took balls to do it and it will pay off.