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UGA
05-01-2006, 03:46 PM
Laying it down!!!

Stating the obvious, that we had negotiated soley with Bush until Thursday night. We had no plans on going any other way until they realized a deal with Bush would not be finalized until after the draft.

Cass had little to no input on the final decision.

We followed the how to blow it blueprint to the t

lol @ us

Grid
05-01-2006, 03:48 PM
I really need to hurry up and complete my english degree. The Chronicle needs new writers..badly.

TheRealJoker
05-01-2006, 03:50 PM
I cancelled my subscription years ago!!!

UGA
05-01-2006, 03:55 PM
lol

this board never ceases to amaze me with its apologetic banter.

Justice is just stating the truth and it hurts.

we had 4 months to prepare for the draft, and up until 2 days before the draft we had ONE player pegged, and back peddled because we wanted our pick signed the day of.

what kind of boneheaded logic is that? their own actions are embarrasing. they are bassically saying we will choose a lesser option on financial means only.

Texans_Chick
05-01-2006, 03:58 PM
Laying it down!!!

Stating the obvious, that we had negotiated soley with Bush until Thursday night. We had no plans on going any other way until they realized a deal with Bush would not be finalized until after the draft.

Cass had little to no input on the final decision.




Well then. hmmm. Bob McNair on 610 said the opposite. So somebody has the story incorrect. He said that we were close enough with either one to close the deal and that to get things finished we needed to concentrate on one or the other.

BattleRedRaider
05-01-2006, 03:58 PM
lol

this board never ceases to amaze me with its apologetic banter.

Justice is just stating the truth and it hurts.

we had 4 months to prepare for the draft, and up until 2 days before the draft we had ONE player pegged, and back peddled because we wanted our pick signed the day of.

what kind of boneheaded logic is that? their own actions are embarrasing. they are bassically saying we will choose a lesser option on financial means only.

So why are you still talking about the draft? It ended yesterday.

TexasJedi
05-01-2006, 04:01 PM
Well then. hmmm. Bob McNair on 610 said the opposite. So somebody has the story incorrect. He said that we were close enough with either one to close the deal and that to get things finished we needed to concentrate on one or the other.
I'll trust Mr. McNair over that flip flopper.

axman40
05-01-2006, 04:02 PM
It's sad to say but the FO blew the handling of the #1 pick.First off to drive up the value of the by talking up prospects ie Bush,Wlliams, Young and Ferguson.Do not announce who you will be drafting before the draft!If you do this no one will be willing to trade with you.
I do not have a problem with the pick just in the way it was handled.
:twocents:

UGA
05-01-2006, 04:03 PM
Well then. hmmm. Bob McNair on 610 said the opposite. So somebody has the story incorrect. He said that we were close enough with either one to close the deal and that to get things finished we needed to concentrate on one or the other.

They went into discussions with Williams on Thursday. They had been negotiating with Bush for months. Mcnair stated signability was a key concern prior to the draft, almost giving away that they were going away from Bush for that reason.

Face the facts, we let finances make this pick.

BTW, guys... now the Around The Horn guys are slamming us one by one.

We are the laughing stock of the football community.

Double Barrel
05-01-2006, 04:04 PM
Well then. hmmm. Bob McNair on 610 said the opposite. So somebody has the story incorrect.

Obviously the fishwrap hack has more insight to the Texans than the team's owner...yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :ok:

I hold the opinions of quite a few of our forum members with much higher regard than the flip/flap that comes from Chronicle writers. Those guys have agendas, while forum members just state it like they see it. I appreciate honesty over sell outs like Justice & McClain.

We are the laughing stock of the football community.

So....what else is "new". :rolleyes:

UGA
05-01-2006, 04:06 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 04:09 PM
Can the Chronicle hire Michael Smith, the only "head" that understands the game of football?

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 04:11 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.

That is awful you feel that way. Maybe you could go say some nice things about another team for a while or is that not your method of operation?

You brought nothing here other than reporting on reporters, great stuff. :rolleyes:

ojthecat
05-01-2006, 04:13 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.


I wonder when Bush will sign with New Orleans? It was no secret that he was campaigning to go to New York. He also made coments about "getting used to loosing" if he comes to Houston. Now who is the Joke on us?

I dont' think so. Look at every Superbowl winning team (that is right I said every) and the all have at least one dominate pass rusher. Not so with running backs and quaterbacks.

This pick took "stones" and it ROCKS.

McNair made a great choice and if you are not able to see it now that's ok We will all still be here supporting our team!!!

It won't be long till we are winners!!!

tsip
05-01-2006, 04:19 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.

you're still here? door won't open?...bye

Errant Hothy
05-01-2006, 04:23 PM
lol

this board never ceases to amaze me with its apologetic banter.

Justice is just stating the truth and it hurts.

we had 4 months to prepare for the draft, and up until 2 days before the draft we had ONE player pegged, and back peddled because we wanted our pick signed the day of.

what kind of boneheaded logic is that? their own actions are embarrasing. they are bassically saying we will choose a lesser option on financial means only.

Really casue this:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=88233
say Justice does not a have a clue what he is talking about.

Go figure, the guy who buried the Astros, Justice, knows even less about football then he does baseball. :rolleyes:

UGA
05-01-2006, 04:25 PM
That is awful you feel that way. Maybe you could go say some nice things about another team for a while or is that not your method of operation?

You brought nothing here other than reporting on reporters, great stuff. :rolleyes:

I also made a thread draft day that this was our best draft ever, and i firmly belive it. As a whole i love this draft. I also like Williams as a player.

But, we blew the first pick. The front office even knows they blew it. They did an about face on Bush two days out only because they werent going to have his contract finalized by draft day. I may be the only one who thinks thats absolutely absurd, and im prepared to take the heat on this homer board, but i dont think anything im saying is out of the box. The majority of the civilized world believes we made a bonehead move, and its not odd that this board just ignores it.

Grid
05-01-2006, 04:28 PM
You may want to wait to say that it was a bad move until you see what Bush puts N.O. through.

jerek
05-01-2006, 04:29 PM
lol

this board never ceases to amaze me with its apologetic banter.

Justice is just stating the truth and it hurts.

we had 4 months to prepare for the draft, and up until 2 days before the draft we had ONE player pegged, and back peddled because we wanted our pick signed the day of.

what kind of boneheaded logic is that? their own actions are embarrasing. they are bassically saying we will choose a lesser option on financial means only.

Of course, Richard Justice knows it all. Everything that the organization is saying, before and since ... that's all BS. Just like Richard Justice knew we were going to pick Mario Williams. He had the inside track on the "negotiations breakdown" then.

Richard Justice says controversial or stupid things because he's not good enough as a writer to make reality interesting. Talk about apologetic banter. Tell Uncle Richard we say hi.

mexican_texan
05-01-2006, 04:30 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.
We don't need to be popular to win. As they say, the meek (geek) shall inherit the earth.

dalemurphy
05-01-2006, 04:30 PM
I also made a thread draft day that this was our best draft ever, and i firmly belive it. As a whole i love this draft. I also like Williams as a player.

But, we blew the first pick. The front office even knows they blew it. They did an about face on Bush two days out only because they werent going to have his contract finalized by draft day. I may be the only one who thinks thats absolutely absurd, and im prepared to take the heat on this homer board, but i dont think anything im saying is out of the box. The majority of the civilized world believes we made a bonehead move, and its not odd that this board just ignores it.


What homer board? the people you are arguing with have often been very critical of this organization. Look, Casserly has been saying for weeks that they like Mario and may draft him. People just dismissed it. I think they wanted Mario the whole time but kept the Bush ball in the area hoping to field trade offers from Tennessee and NYJets. None came. That's interesting considering Bush is the NFL equivalent of Michael Jordan. If you recall, Bush's agent didn't understand why the Texans were dragging their feet 10 days ago in starting negotiations- it's because they didn't want him!

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 04:31 PM
I also made a thread draft day that this was our best draft ever, and i firmly belive it. As a whole i love this draft. I also like Williams as a player.

But, we blew the first pick. The front office even knows they blew it. They did an about face on Bush two days out only because they werent going to have his contract finalized by draft day. I may be the only one who thinks thats absolutely absurd, and im prepared to take the heat on this homer board, but i dont think anything im saying is out of the box. The majority of the civilized world believes we made a bonehead move, and its not odd that this board just ignores it.

So you are mad because McNair and staff got the guy they wanted by addressing a definite need? Mario Williams was #1 on 6-7 teams draft board, all of the USC players fell wher they were prjected, RBs just do not get picked with the #1, etc. There are plenty of red flags to dispute your and many reporters take on this situation.

Rightnow
05-01-2006, 04:37 PM
The Chronicle sportswriters have one agenda. SELL NEWSPAPERS. It's why the paper exists, to make money. They aren't in it for a charity. I don't have a problem with them making money as I am a capatalist, but it factors into why they liked VY so much. They had a VY blog on the web page, VY articles almost everyday and liked Reggie Bush second for the same reason--VY and RB sells newspapers. They are ticked because writing about a DE isn't very exciting and won't increase circulation. Talking about Mario Williams won't get them on ESPN, Foxsports etc.

There are tens of thousands of UT alumni that would have read the Chronicle sports section during football season (and more) that will not be reading it now. That is the main reason why they liked VY and Reggie Bush, which is the same reason you will see John McClain in Tennessee a lot this year writing stories about VY. VY sells newspapers. If we had taken him, over his career, he will sell more newspapers, even if he doesn't do much, than if the Texans go to the Superbowl once.

John McClain will not forgive the Texans for this for a long time. He will go on 610 and write in the Chronicle about how well VY (and possibly Reggie Bush) is doing for years to come. If VY does great and the Texans don't he will write about it and tell everyone "I told you so." If VY flames out it will be because the Texans were too stupid and didn't pick him and he needed to play here. He is mad because he was about to be the number one reporter about an exciting QB in the NFL. Follow the money, and the money is ciculation.

UGA
05-01-2006, 04:42 PM
So you are mad because McNair and staff got the guy they wanted by addressing a definite need?

Why did they start contract negotiations 2 days out of the draft with Williams?

Sure he fills a need, but they didnt care until Bush wasnt going to finalize the deal by Sat night.


Mario Williams was #1 on 6-7 teams draft board

I never said the dude was a bum.

We just had no intention on drafting him until Bush's contract got snagged up. Which is a poor description since its hard to argue that the negotiations were going to be an issue 2 days before the guy even gets drafted. The bulk of the contractwas allready worked out.

trane
05-01-2006, 04:42 PM
When the Vince v. Bush debate began, my initial thought was that I preferred Vince simply because he wants to be here and bring a championship to his hometown whereas Bush just wanted to be the bragging rights that go along with being the #1 pick. I hated when he was asked what he knew about the city all he could say, "There is no state tax". Basically, Bush acted like he was beneath us and figured that that we were lucky to have him versus he was lucky to be here.

So basically the Texans had a choice: do you pick the more talented guy who doesn't really want to be here that you and you really don't need or the guy who is talented that can really help and wants to be here. In the end, I think the Texans offered Bush the same contract that they offered to Williams. Bush sneered at it and Williams jumped at it. I don't think the decision was about finances but about attittude.

MrMeToo
05-01-2006, 04:43 PM
Justice did speak the truth. We don't need to be popular to win but we need to be good. Reggie Bush would have made us popular and really good.

Grid
05-01-2006, 04:48 PM
Winning and popularity are not mutually exclusive. Winning makes you popular.. so you do what you think is best to win games.

Here is something to consider.. pretty much every year the top picks in the draft are chosen by the worst teams. Alot of the time..the team making that pick is one of those loser franchises that never gets any better. No matter how good or popular that player is that they get, it does NOT make them a popular team.

Before the Chargers started winning games and making the playoffs.. LT was still called the best RB in the league, but it was just in passing. People didnt care about the chargers, all they cared about was LT. And they really didnt even care that much about LT.. they would just say "yah, LT is the best back in the league.. but what are the redskins doing?"

Winning games makes you popular.. earns you respect.. gets you exposure. Williams is the guy we chose as the best prospect to get us more wins. Smart move. If everything pans out like we are hoping, we are gonna be getting alot more popular regardless of Bush not being on the roster.

Seņor Stan
05-01-2006, 04:49 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=88233

Here is an article from an actual journalist. Justice might want to take some notes.

Quoted from the Sporting News

Since March, the Sporting News has been given inside access to the decision-making process that led to the Texans' selection of Williams. This is the story of how they arrived at what will be remembered as one of the most controversial choices in NFL draft history.

You'll have to click the link to read the rest. It is worth it. Sorry if its been posted elsewhere, but it is relevant to this thread.

UGA
05-01-2006, 04:51 PM
In the end, I think the Texans offered Bush the same contract that they offered to Williams. Bush sneered at it and Williams jumped at it. I don't think the decision was about finances

?

You list a financial dispute and then say its not a financial issue!

The bottom line was they wanted their pick signed on day one. Williams jumped at the opportunity (of course, he never thought hed be picked first or get that type of money), Bush's camp agreed to bulk of the contract but their was still negotiations on the signing bonus.

This was a purely financial pick.

At 2-14 do we want our picks being made based on this type of issue?

ojthecat
05-01-2006, 04:53 PM
?

You list a financial dispute and then say its not a financial issue!

The bottom line was they wanted their pick signed on day one. Williams jumped at the opportunity (of course, he never thought hed be picked first or get that type of money), Bush's camp agreed to bulk of the contract but their was still negotiations on the signing bonus.

This was a purely financial pick.

At 2-14 do we want our picks being made based on this type of issue?

DENIAL !!!!

mexican_texan
05-01-2006, 04:58 PM
DENIAL !!!!
He has not made progress on the MW chart. If we don't do something before it's too late, he'll lose his mind and become a....a....a Tennessee Tita---I can't even think about it.:crying:

TexanAddict
05-01-2006, 05:00 PM
Why did they start contract negotiations 2 days out of the draft with Williams?

"Dan Ferens, the chief negotiator, made offers to Segal and Ben Dogra, who represents Williams. Segal countered. Dogra didn't. Dogra thought his client was being used as leverage. Williams thought he was being used as leverage until Wednesday night, when Dogra became convinced he wasn't."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3829918.html

Offers apparently had been made to both, Williams' agent seems to be the reason serious negotiations were slow in starting.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 05:01 PM
We just had no intention on drafting him until Bush's contract got snagged up. Which is a poor description since its hard to argue that the negotiations were going to be an issue 2 days before the guy even gets drafted. The bulk of the contractwas allready worked out.

Please get more sources before you start regurgitating someone else's fiction.

BattleRedGuy
05-01-2006, 05:14 PM
Mex _Tex

Nice Avatar! :ok:

mexican_texan
05-01-2006, 05:16 PM
Mex _Tex

Nice Avatar! :ok:
Thanx.

BattleRedRaider
05-01-2006, 05:17 PM
i am sicked and tired of hearing this repeated excuse for drafting williams over and over again....its like you guys are puppets for the texans front office....what makes you think mario williams is such a guaranteed success at his position and how he will certainly bring victories??? and dont tell me combine numbers either...you guys assume a 100% success for mario which is stupid

what a load of bull....all players have their risks but reggie bush was hands down the the most guaranteed player to produce highly on the next level and was a never before seen athlete....

Just like Ki-Jana Carter was the most guaranteed player.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 05:17 PM
i am sicked and tired of hearing this repeated excuse for drafting williams over and over again....its like you guys are puppets for the texans front office....what makes you think mario williams is such a guaranteed success at his position and how he will certainly bring victories??? and dont tell me combine numbers either...you guys assume a 100% success for mario which is stupid

what a load of bull....all players have their risks but reggie bush was hands down the the most guaranteed player to produce highly on the next level and was a never before seen athlete....

There are no guarantees other than people bitching about Bush not being picked. New Orleans is five hours east on I-10. Have fun storming the castle.

Double Barrel
05-01-2006, 05:19 PM
We just had no intention on drafting him until Bush's contract got snagged up.

How do you know that? You don't, and it's an opinion just like the rest of us possess.

The media sold us this Young/Bush debate, but we knew all along that was hogwash when we re-signed Carr. But the media kept beating that drum anyway. Reality did not matter.

And Bush is the Heisman winner, so they beat that drum, too.

But unles you're in the Texans FO, you can only speculate about their intentions.

Perhaps Bush was a tool all along. Maybe the riverboat gambler was trying to get NOLA to bite the hook, so we could get trade down value and Williams. Nobody offered anything substantial, and they had to make an offer to Bush just to save face with the public.

I don't think Kubiak was ever sold on Bush, to be honest. We don't need him, and Kubiak's experience has been one of making decent RBs great with a good system and solid o-line.

And I find it amusing that you think financial decisions are some kind of bad intention in the NFL. This is a business, which is why teams like Indy re-signed their DE while letting their star RB go to another team. Teams that make stupid business (financial) decisions are often ones that put up losing records, too.

Grid
05-01-2006, 05:31 PM
i am sicked and tired of hearing this repeated excuse for drafting williams over and over again

You would prefer that we all cry and rant and rave? maybe go picket the stadium? Sorry that not everyone agrees that Williams was a bad pick. You people are acting like Williams was projected to go in the 2nd round or something.. he was the 2nd highest rated player in the draft. And he fits our needs very well. I can understand some people being upset, but not THIS upset. he wasnt a reach.

its like you guys are puppets for the texans front office

And its like you guys are working for the enemy. Some people happen to love this team.. and part of loving this team is having faith in them to improve. I know that I personally am not trying to convince anyone of anything.. if you wanna be a pessimist about the Williams pick..knock yourself out. Im not afraid to point it out when you say something incorrect, but you are free to think what ya want.

what makes you think mario williams is such a guaranteed success at his position and how he will certainly bring victories??? and dont tell me combine numbers either...you guys assume a 100% success for mario which is stupid

uh.. I said:

Williams is the guy we chose as the best prospect to get us more wins. Smart move. If everything pans out like we are hoping, we are gonna be getting alot more popular regardless of Bush not being on the roster.

Read that again and tell me where im saying Williams is a guaranteed success? Williams has just as much POTENTIAL to be a superstar in the NFL as Reggie Bush.. we wont know which one will live up to thier potential for another couple seasons.

what a load of bull....all players have their risks but reggie bush was hands down the the most guaranteed player to produce highly on the next level and was a never before seen athlete....

#1: Bush has huge potential.. id even go so far as to say that he is very likely to be a star in the league (at least he would be very likely if he hadnt gone to the Saints). But, just to throw some numbers out there.. if Bush is 70% likely to succeed..30% likely to fail.. then Williams is like 69%,31% :P.

#2: Someone pointed out in another thread that the Pats focused on keeping 2 players on thier roster this offseason.. Brady, and Richard Seymour.. thier DE. The Colts let Edge go so that they could re-sign Dwight Freeney. Many people feel that there are three REALLY IMPORTANT positions on a football team. Quarterback, Left Tackle, and Defensive End. A good DE is a VERY VALUABLE thing. Williams is worth the pick.

#3: Bush is a tremendous athlete.. not a once in a lifetime athlete. I mean looking at Bush, can you honestly say that he will be better than Gale Sayers? Barry Sanders? ya know what i mean? Hes a great athlete..a great prospect.. but there have been other great athletes and great prospects that did not compare to guys like Barry Sanders. Bush isnt a sure thing.. and a couple years from now people could be talking about how we dodged a bullet by getting Williams. Ya never know. All we know for sure is that we NEEDED a DE and Mario Williams can be compared to guys like Julius Peppers and Reggie White just as easily as Bush can be compared to Sayers/Sanders. We wont know who was worth the pick for a while.. so why not get a little bit excited about who we DID get, and wait till we see them play before we start talking about who made a mistake?

TD143
05-01-2006, 05:32 PM
what a load of bull....all players have their risks but reggie bush was hands down the the most guaranteed player to produce highly on the next level and was a never before seen athlete....

I'm sure the Saints have available room for you to move there or at least become a fan! :soapbox:

aj.
05-01-2006, 05:36 PM
Justice is just stating the truth and it hurts.

.

Justice is stating an opinion, one which is shared by many so it's a popular opinion and easy to lay out there. Makes himself look good by piling on. The truth of whether this was a good or bad decision lies somewhere in the future. Anything else is called speculation.

Justice went way over the line by calling McNair "stupid" and "incompetent" in his article on Saturday. I was as shocked over what happened as anyone but that's unprofessional and over the line. I would love to hear him say that to McNair's face but I know he won't.

Specter
05-01-2006, 05:58 PM
They went into discussions with Williams on Thursday. They had been negotiating with Bush for months. Mcnair stated signability was a key concern prior to the draft, almost giving away that they were going away from Bush for that reason.

Face the facts, we let finances make this pick.

BTW, guys... now the Around The Horn guys are slamming us one by one.

We are the laughing stock of the football community.

Not exactly, Michael Smith predicted we would take Williams and he defended him to the death on the show right after the other 3 bashed us. He won tonight BTW, dont knwo how much that means but whatever.

bdiddy
05-01-2006, 06:34 PM
Laying it down!!!

Stating the obvious, that we had negotiated soley with Bush until Thursday night. We had no plans on going any other way until they realized a deal with Bush would not be finalized until after the draft.

Cass had little to no input on the final decision.

We followed the how to blow it blueprint to the t

lol @ us

Casserly was on 610 this morning and stated that the team had reached an agreement in prinicple with both Bush and Williams with only a few "minor" details to workout. When Segal, Bush's agent, called him on Thursday Casserly told him he was suspending negotiations. This was before any further terms were discussed. The team decided they wanted Mario and did not have further contact with Bush's agent until Williams was signed.

GP
05-01-2006, 06:46 PM
So you are mad because McNair and staff got the guy they wanted by addressing a definite need? Mario Williams was #1 on 6-7 teams draft board, all of the USC players fell wher they were prjected, RBs just do not get picked with the #1, etc. There are plenty of red flags to dispute your and many reporters take on this situation.

Add this to what Kaiser has said:

Kiper, Prisco, McClain, and Brandt have all rated us HIGH on our draft report card. In fact, we share the highest mark with only a select few who also had HIGH marks for their draft(s).

When in our entire franchise history have we been applauded like this?

Look, the emotions were high, and WILL be high on this topic for a few years to come. Two guys rated fairly equally, and one guy worked "with us" on the contract...while another guy continued to play a very immature money game.

McNair and our front office has a mandate: Get with OUR program or get out. We don't negotiate with hostage takers. Bush played a high-risk game and ggot called on it...we still won the hand with a guy who is going to be solid for us. This wasn't the disaster that it's being painted to be.

And for the record, I WANTED Bush more than Williams. But I'm not so prideful that I let it get in the way of my overall loyalty to this team.

Go Texans!

UGA
05-01-2006, 06:53 PM
McNair and our front office has a mandate: Get with OUR program or get out!

You mean our 2-14 program?

Hervoyel
05-01-2006, 06:58 PM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.


31 other teams you could be following right now so don't lose any sleep over this draft. We'll somehow get along without you.

UGA
05-01-2006, 07:00 PM
31 other teams you could be following right now so don't lose any sleep over this draft. We'll somehow get along without you.

more texan apologist talk...

GP
05-01-2006, 07:00 PM
You mean our 2-14 program?

Yep.

And where will you be when we are 14-2?

But of course, you're putting yourself in a situation to only succeed in your argument IF we lose and lose and lose. Is that what you want so that we will all "see the light" that you're wanting us to see?

Look, man. Bringing in KUBIAK alone was probably the best move we've made since this team was born. Free agency moves have been leaps and bounds above ALL FOUR PRIOR OFFSEASONS COMBINED. Our draft has been lauded by the premiere draft/NFL analysts (minus McClain, the weasel....) for the first time in our history--No other draft by our team has been met with this kind of appraisal.

And here you stand, actively wanting us to stink so that you can prove your point to us? Oh, I forgot...you're just saying we're "homers."

Spin it how you want. I'll spin it how I want. But at the end of the day, my view is based on hope in success and yours is based on hope via failure.

UGA
05-01-2006, 07:15 PM
Yep.

OK, i just wanted to clarify that you are implying that our 2-14 program shoul drive away arguably the best talent in the draft in over 10 years, simply because he wasnt signed by the day of the draft.

And where will you be when we are 14-2?

probably watching the games like you...

14-2 is probably a decade away at this pace.

But of course, you're putting yourself in a situation to only succeed in your argument IF we lose and lose and lose. Is that what you want so that we will all "see the light" that you're wanting us to see?

No im putting myself in a situation where i can critique my team while trying to be impartial rather then being almost absurdly optimistic. Ill be rooting for the best like you.

Look, man. Bringing in KUBIAK alone was probably the best move we've made since this team was born. Free agency moves have been leaps and bounds above ALL FOUR PRIOR OFFSEASONS COMBINED. Our draft has been lauded by the premiere draft/NFL analysts (minus McClain, the weasel....) for the first time in our history--No other draft by our team has been met with this kind of appraisal.

I made a post the day of the draft saying i was more impressed with this draft then any of our previous. This while still believing we made an error off the top.

I think Kipers line of thought was fairly accurtate. We get a B for the talent we got and in what positions, but it would have been an A+ if you replaced Williams name with Bush.

Hervoyel
05-01-2006, 07:19 PM
more texan apologist talk...

There wasn't an apology in sight there, just an invitation and since you're still here you obviously don't plan on taking me up on it. Pity.

Look if you're not happy with the pick or you don't like their reasons for it that's fine. It's even understandable. The problem is you're only seeing the side you want to see and you're not interested in doing anything but insulting the front office.

That and lumping anyone who doesn't see it your way in with them.

BattleRedRaider
05-01-2006, 07:19 PM
We get a B for the talent we got and in what positions, but it would have been an A+ if you replaced Williams name with Bush.

Since you love to talk about Bush so much, there's a Saints board I'm sure you'd find yourself happy in.

the wonger need food
05-01-2006, 07:21 PM
more texan apologist talk...

I am about as far from a Texans apologist as they come and I believe what the people in charge are telling us. I was as pissed as anyone on Friday night but the more we think about it the more this pick will make sense. You may experience some clarity yourself.

You and your boy Justice state that it was a financial decision when it is a know fact that Bush was offered $54 million with 26 of that guaranteed. He was asking for $28 million guaranteed and they ended up giving 26.6 to Williams. Either way, finances were not the issue here.

UGA
05-01-2006, 07:31 PM
There wasn't an apology in sight there, just an invitation and since you're still here you obviously don't plan on taking me up on it. Pity.

More rubbish....

Look if you're not happy with the pick or you don't like their reasons for it that's fine. It's even understandable. The problem is you're only seeing the side you want to see and you're not interested in doing anything but insulting the front office.

That and lumping anyone who doesn't see it your way in with them.

Now i can atleast respect this portion of your post.

Im at the very least amused by optimism of this board. Especially considering the state of this team and the type of year we are coming off.

jmerog
05-01-2006, 08:11 PM
well, i wanted bush. i never consideredmario seriously but after thinking about it i gotta say..
I LIKE IT!

The more i think about it the more i like it. I predict we will beat the Colts finally this year (once) because of our pass rush. I look for it to really come on the second half of the season. We were 30th in offense last year and 31th in defense. We needed defense.

plus we didn't neglect offense this offseason.

On offense, we gained
3 new O- linesmen (1 is a probowler)
A new probowl reciever ( to line up alongside our other probowl reciever))
A playoff caliber tight end that already knows our system.




...and a couple of other rooks

jmerog
05-01-2006, 08:15 PM
I'm going out on a limb and saying the texans will not only beat the colts this year due to having a pass rush but also that we will have a top 10 defense and go 9-7 or better. I'll go further out on that limb to say that Carr will actually have time to throw this year due to an improved line and coaching and will pass for over 3500.

.

dalemurphy
05-01-2006, 09:02 PM
more texan apologist talk...

We had a miserable season. Since then, a very competent coaching staff has taken over. They have made massive changes via free agency. We drafted two very good looking OT prospects. We got Demeco Ryan, a good player and extraordinary person in the second round, and our new offensive-minded head coach shunned an offensive star and drafted defense with the first overall pick. I think this situation demands optimism, don't you?

TEXANRED
05-01-2006, 09:28 PM
They went into discussions with Williams on Thursday. They had been negotiating with Bush for months. Mcnair stated signability was a key concern prior to the draft, almost giving away that they were going away from Bush for that reason.

Face the facts, we let finances make this pick.

BTW, guys... now the Around The Horn guys are slamming us one by one.

We are the laughing stock of the football community.
First I would like to say that at some point in the season when everything is going well and the Texans are working like a well oiled machine, Justice will write somthing to the degree of Mario Williams was the tough smart choice. No other pick would have made since. McNair had the guts to pull the trigger and such a contriversal pick..blah blah blah blah...........

Second, I am thinking of one of five fingers for the rest of the football community. I will even give you five guesses, the first four are wrong.

tex2theend
05-01-2006, 09:46 PM
I love the Mario Williams pick. I think we made the right choice. Here is my thinking on this. People like Mario do not come along every year and defensive end is one of the most important positions left in the NFL. I can not say the same about running backs. Last year no one would give up a 2nd round pick for Edg or this years MVP so why should we use the first overall on a RB? My last thought on this.....Next years draft will have Jullian Peterson...who will be the Mario Williams? My guess is there will not be one for many years to come.

michaelm
05-01-2006, 10:02 PM
I also made a thread draft day that this was our best draft ever, and i firmly belive it. As a whole i love this draft. I also like Williams as a player.

But, we blew the first pick. The front office even knows they blew it. They did an about face on Bush two days out only because they werent going to have his contract finalized by draft day. I may be the only one who thinks thats absolutely absurd, and im prepared to take the heat on this homer board, but i dont think anything im saying is out of the box. The majority of the civilized world believes we made a bonehead move, and its not odd that this board just ignores it.


From what I understand, the exact opposite is true of the way the trade went down.

The FO knew a while before the draft that Mario would be the pick and kept slipping that possibility out through the press to get people used to the idea.
The only problem is that despite them telling the media time after time that Mario was a viable pick, the media played conspiracy theorists and refused to believe the truth when it was constantly fed to them.
i bet McNair and Co. were beside themselves that the media wouldn't take the possibility seriously. The FO wanted to soften what they knew would be a hard blow to most fans, but the media wouldn't let the fans take the possibility seriously.
Funny how they were trying so hard to let us all know that it would happen, but no one wanted to listen.

dat_boy_yec
05-01-2006, 10:23 PM
This is a message to UGA, and anybody else who wants to get it straight. The Texans did not have months of negotiations with Bush. The USC pro day was in the beginning of April and before that there was really no contact with Bush or his people other than interviews. If you remember correctly a short while after the USC pro-day the Texans flew Bush out and he came out here with his agent at this time no contract discussions were held. After that visit came Young and then Williams. I remember this clearly, the Texans started contract discussions with Williams agent when they were here. After that time they began negotiating with both camps. If you really follow the timeline they showed more interest in Williams than in Bush after Williams visit and everyone thought they were bluffing, but guess what the Texans are straight shooters no B.S. there. We, myself included thought it was a foregone conclusion that Bush would be a Texan so we didn't really consider what they were saying as serious. You say you want to be impartial, then you should present all the facts and not some generalization.

trublu
05-01-2006, 10:26 PM
I love the Mario Williams pick. I think we made the right choice. Here is my thinking on this. People like Mario do not come along every year and defensive end is one of the most important positions left in the NFL. I can not say the same about running backs. Last year no one would give up a 2nd round pick for Edg or this years MVP so why should we use the first overall on a RB? My last thought on this.....Next years draft will have Jullian Peterson...who will be the Mario Williams? My guess is there will not be one for many years to come.

That was because of their age and nothing else. Teams don't like to take chances on older running backs because of the punishment running backs take. It has nothing to do with the importance of the position.

dat_boy_yec
05-01-2006, 10:33 PM
That was because of their age and nothing else. Teams don't like to take chances on older running backs because of the punishment running backs take. It has nothing to do with the importance of the position.

Actually it does. good RB's are more common than good DE's off the top of your head you can probably name 5 premier RB's and more than likely their are alot more that are close to those five than you know. You really can't do that with DE's. It's so hard to find them that some teams would rather switch schemes than keep looking. Let's see there's Freeney, Peppers, Kearse, ummm...whatever. Point is it's easier to find good RB's than it is DE's. You point to Bush's versatility but Williams also has versatility he can line up anywhere along the line and if I remember correctly he's even had some LB time in college. I could keep going, suffice to say I don't think your comment is accurate.

trublu
05-01-2006, 10:38 PM
My comment had to do with the value of James and Alexander and not with defensive ends; the words defensive end weren't even on my post. But if I look at the NFL roster I'm sure I can come up with more impact DE's than what you listed. Also, I never pointed out Bush's versitility, so I don't know where your comment came from.

infantrycak
05-01-2006, 11:10 PM
It has nothing to do with the importance of the position.

Really? I guess the huge disparity in salaries has nothing to do with the relative importance of the positions either.

Franchise tag numbers:
RB: $6.0 mil
DE: $8.3 mil

IMO the lack of interest in Edge and Alexander was a combination of age, perceived contract requirements and the need to give up a draft pick. A year later and a year older, both got lucrative deals, but no one gave up a pick on top to get them.

texplayer2
05-01-2006, 11:19 PM
I wonder when Bush will sign with New Orleans? It was no secret that he was campaigning to go to New York. He also made coments about "getting used to loosing" if he comes to Houston. Now who is the Joke on us?

I dont' think so. Look at every Superbowl winning team (that is right I said every) and the all have at least one dominate pass rusher. Not so with running backs and quaterbacks.

This pick took "stones" and it ROCKS.

McNair made a great choice and if you are not able to see it now that's ok We will all still be here supporting our team!!!

It won't be long till we are winners!!!

That is amazing:drool: Did they all pick these pass rushers up with the #1 pick?:confused:

texplayer2
05-01-2006, 11:28 PM
Actually it does. good RB's are more common than good DE's off the top of your head you can probably name 5 premier RB's and more than likely their are alot more that are close to those five than you know. You really can't do that with DE's. It's so hard to find them that some teams would rather switch schemes than keep looking. Let's see there's Freeney, Peppers, Kearse, ummm...whatever. Point is it's easier to find good RB's than it is DE's. You point to Bush's versatility but Williams also has versatility he can line up anywhere along the line and if I remember correctly he's even had some LB time in college. I could keep going, suffice to say I don't think your comment is accurate.

People actually look at RB's more (and know more of them) because they touch the Ball. High profile Position. Rookie Linemen(Both sides of the Ball) have a learning curve, which is longer than most RB's. We shall see who is more common.

trublu
05-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Really? I guess the huge disparity in salaries has nothing to do with the relative importance of the positions either.

Franchise tag numbers:
RB: $6.0 mil
DE: $8.3 mil

IMO the lack of interest in Edge and Alexander was a combination of age, perceived contract requirements and the need to give up a draft pick. A year later and a year older, both got lucrative deals, but no one gave up a pick on top to get them.

Again, I'm being qouted out of context. My comment was based on the trade value of James and Alexander not the comparison between RBs and DEs.
While the franchise tag for RB's is 6 mil, James is scheduled to make about 10 mil in his contract. It is obvious that the Cardinals value him alot.

mancunian
05-02-2006, 06:50 AM
"Dan Ferens, the chief negotiator, made offers to Segal and Ben Dogra, who represents Williams. Segal countered. Dogra didn't. Dogra thought his client was being used as leverage. Williams thought he was being used as leverage until Wednesday night, when Dogra became convinced he wasn't."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3829918.html

Offers apparently had been made to both, Williams' agent seems to be the reason serious negotiations were slow in starting.

A couple of the comments on here said we didn't start negotiating with Wiiliams till Thursday - I think we'd been talking to the guys agent a lot longer than a couple of days.

mancunian
05-02-2006, 06:58 AM
I'm going out on a limb and saying the texans will not only beat the colts this year due to having a pass rush but also that we will have a top 10 defense and go 9-7 or better. I'll go further out on that limb to say that Carr will actually have time to throw this year due to an improved line and coaching and will pass for over 3500.

.


top ten run defence top 15 versus the pass

mancunian
05-02-2006, 07:05 AM
#2: Someone pointed out in another thread that the Pats focused on keeping 2 players on thier roster this offseason.. Brady, and Richard Seymour.. thier DE. The Colts let Edge go so that they could re-sign Dwight Freeney. Many people feel that there are three REALLY IMPORTANT positions on a football team. Quarterback, Left Tackle, and Defensive End. A good DE is a VERY VALUABLE thing. Williams is worth the pick.

I've been reading that too, name 5 premier DE'd in this league and I mean top notch.
Freeney
Seymour
Kearse
who else.......I'm probably missing a couple

Darren Howard maybe?

How many RB's can you name?

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-02-2006, 10:38 AM
Mcnair was unhappy Bush couldnt come to terms by draft day, and let it get personal.

Great front office we have here.

We are a joke.


THERE IS NO WHINING IN FOOTBALL!!!! GET A GRIP!!!