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View Full Version : How Long Before Houston Gets Respect Again?


pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:42 PM
In a sports era dominated by the media, high priced athletes, and greedy owners, The Houston Texans managed to do something improbable, building itself to one of the most respected organizations in all of sports! All in Four Years. Not only were the Texans viewed as an up and coming team, Free Agents, coaches, and media personel enjoy this area as a place to be, with tremedous upside. But just like the old kids song, "Houston's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, Houston's bridge is falling down, No Reg-gie Bush!"

In one costly decision, the franchise went from being one of the most respected around, to the most laughed at and forever will be. How long will it take to recover and get back to national respect? Even if the Texans were to make a strong rebound this season, for years to come the questionable decision made on April 29th will continue to haunt the team, the owner, but most of all, the city. Let's look at the comparison all want to make, the Jordan vs Bowie Pick. In 1977 Portland won a title, they were on the verge of others when they drafted Bowie, and they haven't been the same since! They have even gone so far to draft players like Sebastian Telfar to make the fans forget of the nightmare that became of that draft, but the franchise has yet to recover. Are we the NFL version of MLB's Tampa Bay Devil Rays or NBA's Portland Trailblazers? I think so!

Another way to look at it is this. Benson, owner of the New Orleans Saints went from N.O's version of Bud Adams, to the most respected man in Louisianna History. One pick put him back on the map, in terms of respect, the city back on the map, and launched what will be a financial generator for the community. McNair could have done the same for us! Could you imagine the respect and love Houston would have received nationally, drafting Superman in cleats, and the media attention placed on Houston for the next 10 years. Does it help you to win......Yes! Free Agents go where they are on T.V., Monday Night and Sunday Night games, playoffs come, and then national following. All that disappeared like a fart in the wind, after Casserly and McNair blew one!

What potentially did Houston miss out on? Yeah, I believe we got a heck of a ball player in Mario Williams. Add him to DeMeco Lyons and the Texans got the best of the NFL raft, with the best 1-2 combo! Now, add the Free and Strong Safeties, middle LB, and cornerback also needed to make this a better defense and we have something cooking, ooops, that is too much for us to handle in 1 draft.......exactly.

Regardless of drafting Bush or Williams, the Texans still need a core of players to bring them in the likes of the Colts and Steelers, as we have been so dooped into thinking we can challenge with the pick of Williams. Even with picking Bush, the Texans could have filled all major holes with picks on April 29, 2006 the only exception is, Williams' DE position, would have been filled with a third or fourth rounder, that can also have upside. Let's be honest, Lundy, RB from VA is no Reggie Bush. DeAngelo Williams, the second back taken is not in the same class as Bush, but there is a chance a host of DE's could be the same type of impact player as Williams. bush was rated the #1 prospect in 10 years. If the Texans would have been patient and played this thing smart, they may have seen the draft unravel like bad yarn, as it did. Think about Bush running behind Winstin Justice? Guys were dropping in the draft faster than our hearts did on Thursday eveing. This could have been the greatest Texan draft in history, but fear in the front office let the NFL's closest Version of Michael Jordan get away. Instead, New Orleans will reap our mistakes, with West & EAST coast love, as New Peaceful Hurricane has blown into town. Hurricane Bush will bring that community together, I just wonder, how much he could have done for us.

pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:44 PM
By the way, my answer.......Not unless we win 3-4 super bowls after this blunder! Otherwise, we may never recover!

Double Barrel
05-01-2006, 02:46 PM
In one costly decision, the franchise went from being one of the most respected around, to the most laughed at and forever will be.

We did? :um:

I hate to break it to you, man, but the expansion team without a winning season hasn't had much respect since before our first season (when "respect" was based on a shiny new stadium and practice facility).

You earn respect in the NFL by winning...something that has yet to happen with our Texans.

But Coach Kubiak has nothing but winning on his mind, so maybe respect is closer than we think.

Malloy
05-01-2006, 02:46 PM
But just like the old kids song, "Houston's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, Houston's bridge is falling down, No Reg-gie Bush!"


The dubious honor goes to the London bridge, but I'm sure some bridge in Houston is falling too :)

Speedy
05-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Win football games. I don't give a crap what ANYBODY around the country thinks or says.

ojthecat
05-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Reggie Bush is not equal to Michael Jordon !!!

Defense wins in football. Reggie Bush (if he signs) is more of a receiver than a running back he will not be as good in the NFL as he was in college.

Mario Williams will be better. Buddy Ryan said it best "It's hard for the Quarterback to throw the ball with tears in his eyes". This is what we have been missing. I can't wait for Peyton to be carted off the field in Indy after Mario flys around for the sack.

pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:49 PM
In terms of respect, everyone thought we were a playoff team last season. I believe the veterans let us down, and so did the coaching staff. Free agents would have come, especially with adding someone of Bush's playmaking ability,and A new coach in Kub's. We are financially receptive as we all know, overpaying often for people. We were more respected than most realize, then all that disappeared.

pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:50 PM
How many titles dows Buddy Ryan Have?.........OH!

Speedy
05-01-2006, 02:51 PM
And enough of the Jordan/Bowie references. Last time I checked, those guys played basketball, with one trying to play baseball. Bush and Mario play football. Apples and oranges.

ojthecat
05-01-2006, 02:52 PM
How many titles dows Buddy Ryan Have?.........OH!


85 Bears count in my book.

Double Barrel
05-01-2006, 02:52 PM
How many titles dows Buddy Ryan Have?.........OH!

He was the genius behind one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, the '85 Bears and their 46.

Dude knows his defensive talent. :ok:

pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:53 PM
Reggie Bush is not equal to Michael Jordon !!!

Defense wins in football. Reggie Bush (if he signs) is more of a receiver than a running back he will not be as good in the NFL as he was in college.

Mario Williams will be better. Buddy Ryan said it best "It's hard for the Quarterback to throw the ball with tears in his eyes". This is what we have been missing. I can't wait for Peyton to be carted off the field in Indy after Mario flys around for the sack.

By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will? I love Williams and I will support him, I just think we missed the boat on this one, that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!

pittbull
05-01-2006, 02:54 PM
85 Bears count in my book.


Oops, True!

ojthecat
05-01-2006, 02:54 PM
that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!


I like Kubiak and McNair's idea to bring an different "unique experience" to Relaint ----- WINNING

BattleRedRaider
05-01-2006, 02:54 PM
By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will? I love Williams and I will support him, I just think we missed the boat on this one, that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!

We may have missed that boat, but we got on the RIGHT boat.

Malloy
05-01-2006, 02:54 PM
By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will? I love Williams and I will support him, I just think we missed the boat on this one, that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!

For me, a winning season would be a unique experience. Getting our D working is the first step towards that winning season :)

Double Barrel
05-01-2006, 02:55 PM
By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will?

ahhhh, but there is a first time for everything, my friend. :yahoo:

Dude is a pure pocket passer with hardly any mobility. His weakness is pressure, evidenced by the performances he's had with the Steelers and Patriots.

jerek
05-01-2006, 02:56 PM
By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will? I love Williams and I will support him, I just think we missed the boat on this one, that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!

Forget carting Peyton off the field. I'll settle for doing him up Pittsburgh/NE style.

We just took a major step in that direction.

Otherwise, I have to think that your post is the same ol :blah:

ensign_lee
05-01-2006, 02:59 PM
Either when
A) the next time we play the Saints, Mario stuffs Bush's running game and Bush finishes with <100 yards rushing/receiving with 0 touchdowns
or
B) when we make the playoffs and win our first game. That'll put us on the map.

All these delusions of "we'll ahve to win a SuperBowl before people recognize us" posts are pure folly. Remember how much respect the Chargers used to get? Compare that to how much they had last year / how much they have now.

Win a playoff game and you'll be golden.

ATX_Texan
05-01-2006, 03:05 PM
Mario Williams will be better.

Based on what? It seems like everyone is trying to pump up this guy like he is the next Reggie White. At first, it was because of all the sacks he had in the second half of ONE season. Now, I am hearing that his lack of sacks before then was unimportant because "sackes are not the real measure of his impact on the defense". What did he do for three years on this defense that made everyone better?

I agree that all the hype by the media over Bush was way over the top and it was doubtful that anyone could ever live up to it. However, the hype that Mario (Super based on what?) is here is getting just as bad.

There have been a ton of half season wonders and draft combine "freaks" that did not amount to anything in the NFL. I have to question investing $24 million on a guy based on a half a season of output.

Tejaspro
05-01-2006, 03:08 PM
In a sports era dominated by the media, high priced athletes, and greedy owners, The Houston Texans managed to do something improbable, building itself to one of the most respected organizations in all of sports! All in Four Years. Not only were the Texans viewed as an up and coming team, Free Agents, coaches, and media personel enjoy this area as a place to be, with tremedous upside. But just like the old kids song, "Houston's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, Houston's bridge is falling down, No Reg-gie Bush!"

In one costly decision, the franchise went from being one of the most respected around, to the most laughed at and forever will be. How long will it take to recover and get back to national respect? Even if the Texans were to make a strong rebound this season, for years to come the questionable decision made on April 29th will continue to haunt the team, the owner, but most of all, the city. Let's look at the comparison all want to make, the Jordan vs Bowie Pick. In 1977 Portland won a title, they were on the verge of others when they drafted Bowie, and they haven't been the same since! They have even gone so far to draft players like Sebastian Telfar to make the fans forget of the nightmare that became of that draft, but the franchise has yet to recover. Are we the NFL version of MLB's Tampa Bay Devil Rays or NBA's Portland Trailblazers? I think so!

Another way to look at it is this. Benson, owner of the New Orleans Saints went from N.O's version of Bud Adams, to the most respected man in Louisianna History. One pick put him back on the map, in terms of respect, the city back on the map, and launched what will be a financial generator for the community. McNair could have done the same for us! Could you imagine the respect and love Houston would have received nationally, drafting Superman in cleats, and the media attention placed on Houston for the next 10 years. Does it help you to win......Yes! Free Agents go where they are on T.V., Monday Night and Sunday Night games, playoffs come, and then national following. All that disappeared like a fart in the wind, after Casserly and McNair blew one!

What potentially did Houston miss out on? Yeah, I believe we got a heck of a ball player in Mario Williams. Add him to DeMeco Lyons and the Texans got the best of the NFL raft, with the best 1-2 combo! Now, add the Free and Strong Safeties, middle LB, and cornerback also needed to make this a better defense and we have something cooking, ooops, that is too much for us to handle in 1 draft.......exactly.

Regardless of drafting Bush or Williams, the Texans still need a core of players to bring them in the likes of the Colts and Steelers, as we have been so dooped into thinking we can challenge with the pick of Williams. Even with picking Bush, the Texans could have filled all major holes with picks on April 29, 2006 the only exception is, Williams' DE position, would have been filled with a third or fourth rounder, that can also have upside. Let's be honest, Lundy, RB from VA is no Reggie Bush. DeAngelo Williams, the second back taken is not in the same class as Bush, but there is a chance a host of DE's could be the same type of impact player as Williams. bush was rated the #1 prospect in 10 years. If the Texans would have been patient and played this thing smart, they may have seen the draft unravel like bad yarn, as it did. Think about Bush running behind Winstin Justice? Guys were dropping in the draft faster than our hearts did on Thursday eveing. This could have been the greatest Texan draft in history, but fear in the front office let the NFL's closest Version of Michael Jordan get away. Instead, New Orleans will reap our mistakes, with West & EAST coast love, as New Peaceful Hurricane has blown into town. Hurricane Bush will bring that community together, I just wonder, how much he could have done for us.

"He who laughs last, laughs best".

Please read the article posted, "Bush vrs. Williams".

I, too, was upset with Williams being picked over Bush. I love Bush. However, I am a Texan's fan, and in hind sight, I have to agree that the best pick for the team and the chance to win a super bowl rests with Williams.

As a fan, I hate it. I longed to see Bush break opposing players ankles on the way to another break away touchdown.

But, alas, it was not meant to be. I could become a Saints fan, but how could any self respecing fan change allegancies to another team. I can't. Houston is my hometown, and my team. Upset? Yes. Traitor? No.

Now that intellect has replaced emotion, I have to have faith in Kubiak and go with his choice. Only time will tell, but if history is a guide, then I have to admit that a stand out DE is more valuable to a winning team that a RB, no matter how talented.

So, I will lick my wounds, and pull as hard as I can for Williams to become what the team believes he will come. And if he does, we might find ourselves winning more games than we lose. Respect comes from winning. And when we become a winner, all those people who are now ridiculing the Texans will rhue that day.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 03:08 PM
How long? Well you have to get a little more granular with that. If you mean by reputation it looks pretty strong as all those prognosticators that did not have their writer's feeding them info or they did not have time to make a more in depth take are saying today that we did what was best for our team and had a great draft.

If you mean by execution, we have never executed so the only reputation that we are trying to tarnish is a negative one. Whether we picked Bush or Williams this would still be an issue to address.

pv1999
05-01-2006, 03:22 PM
By the way, if No one else in this league has carried Peyton off the field, what makes Houston fans think Mario will? I love Williams and I will support him, I just think we missed the boat on this one, that would have brought a unique experience to our football team in Houston!

The only way Peyton is getting carried off the field is if he physically starts to choke as much as he does mentally in Playoff Games.

chuckm
05-01-2006, 03:22 PM
When we start to win more than we lose ....

pv1999
05-01-2006, 03:33 PM
Actually we didn't have that much respect, we have screwed up every draft in franchise history, we are a rest haven for old free agents, we have taken an NFL-type QB and basically run sandlot plays with this zone block crap.(not saying Carr is Elway but some of that is the coaches fault)

The one thing that I can say to defend my Texans is "We BEAT the Cowboys" and now that is in jeopardy.

pittbull
05-01-2006, 03:44 PM
Does anyone know of Spicer, Stroud, Henderson, & Heyward. Oh! The Jacksonville Jags front 4! Seems to me, they still haven't been able to get past Indy. Both times they failed to beat the colts, due to NO OFFENSE! We don't have 4 Mario Williams in our front 4. When you even look at the Colts losses, they came to teams with a 3-4 scheme with fast athletic linebackers, not outside pass rushing DE's. Carolina beat them in 2003 with Julius Peppers(7), Brenson Buckner (1), Chris Jenkins (5), & Mike Rucker (12). Dan Morgan was the middle Linebacker. If anyone remembers, this team went to the Super Bowl. If you can say the Texans have this on defense, then we can talk, and I'm all for the defensive minded approach. By the way, the numbers in parenthesis are the sack each had! I don't see everyone on our front 4 doing that just yet.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 03:52 PM
Does anyone know of Spicer, Stroud, Henderson, & Heyward. Oh! The Jacksonville Jags front 4! Seems to me, they still haven't been able to get past Indy. Both times they failed to beat the colts, due to NO OFFENSE! We don't have 4 Mario Williams in our front 4. When you even look at the Colts losses, they came to teams with a 3-4 scheme with fast athletic linebackers, not outside pass rushing DE's. Carolina beat them in 2003 with Julius Peppers(7), Brenson Buckner (1), Chris Jenkins (5), & Mike Rucker (12). Dan Morgan was the middle Linebacker. If anyone remembers, this team went to the Super Bowl. If you can say the Texans have this on defense, then we can talk, and I'm all for the defensive minded approach. By the way, the numbers in parenthesis are the sack each had! I don't see everyone on our front 4 doing that just yet.

Great try, but you need to look at the results of those games versus the Jags since 2002. I am sure it would not yield the result you were looking for.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/IND/2005

Texans Horror
05-01-2006, 03:55 PM
Either when
A) the next time we play the Saints, Mario stuffs Bush's running game and Bush finishes with <100 yards rushing/receiving with 0 touchdowns
or
B) when we make the playoffs and win our first game. That'll put us on the map.

All these delusions of "we'll ahve to win a SuperBowl before people recognize us" posts are pure folly. Remember how much respect the Chargers used to get? Compare that to how much they had last year / how much they have now.

Win a playoff game and you'll be golden.

ensign lee, you got it right, man. This is what it will take for the Texans to prove that they were right about Mario and Reggie. I would like to add one more thing. With both athletes being declared overrated, if one of them busts first, the other will look like the right pick. If Reggie fumbles a few balls, can't get his running game going, or suffers from a bad injury, people are going to say we did the right thing. If Mario can't pressure the QB, people will say Reggie was the better pick.

pittbull
05-01-2006, 03:59 PM
The bottom line is, Jacksonville, too, has focused so much on stopping Peyton, they haven't been able to get past their horrible defense the past 3-4 years. And if you look at Indy's defensive stats last year, with the exception of Freeney, they were bad down the stretch. Offense scores and wins the game! When the Jags or Us can do that, I'll agree. Otherwise, I'm like Michael Irvin........."Offense wins the game!"

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 04:06 PM
The bottom line is, Jacksonville, too, has focused so much on stopping Peyton, they haven't been able to get past their horrible defense the past 3-4 years. And if you look at Indy's defensive stats last year, with the exception of Freeney, they were bad down the stretch. Offense scores and wins the game! When the Jags or Us can do that, I'll agree. Otherwise, I'm like Michael Irvin........."Offense wins the game!"

We addressed offense this off season by taking an offensive minded coach, bringing in a former HC to man the offensive line, extended a high potential QB, brung in a pro bowl Center, a pro bowl WR2, a TE that fits the system, a FB that fits the system, found a possible diamond in dormancy in Wand. You concerns were heard and I think we addressed the offense before the draft.

kcwilson
05-01-2006, 04:18 PM
ensign lee, you got it right, man. This is what it will take for the Texans to prove that they were right about Mario and Reggie. I would like to add one more thing. With both athletes being declared overrated, if one of them busts first, the other will look like the right pick. If Reggie fumbles a few balls, can't get his running game going, or suffers from a bad injury, people are going to say we did the right thing. If Mario can't pressure the QB, people will say Reggie was the better pick.

The biggest problem that Mario will have vis a vis Bush is that the two's impacts are going to be very difficult to determine from looking at a boxscore. Most of America will come down hard on the Texans unless Mario generates LOADS of sacks.

Criticism will continue to fall on the franchise because most people won't look to see what type of impact Mario has if he commands a double team, changes a passing lane, knocks down a few passes... these thigns are great from a DE standpoint, but don't translate to box score hype and highlight reel hype.

Wins is an easy way to prove Mario's impact, but I don't think you can make that judgement untiltwo to three years from now. In the meantime, let's just prep for the new year and take it on the chin. The more support we give the Texans, the easier it will be for them to translate that support into a positive mind frame on the field.

I fear boo's raining down in week 2-3 if we aren't winning. We will need two years to recover from 2-14.

WILLIEG
05-01-2006, 04:45 PM
You have to earn respect before someone gives it to you. Realistically, no one in the league respected us before this year's draft. But I bet if we start winning then people will start taking us more seiiously and gain the respect we should have already had. Winning is the bottom line in this league and the only way to gain another opponents respect. I'm just hoping for a year above .500. There are still a few pieces we need to address in FA and next years draft.

Overalls
05-01-2006, 05:04 PM
Who says we want to be like INDY. With a HOF runningback in James, a HOF WR in Harrison, and a possible HOF QB in Manning they have NO, I REPEAT, NO Super Bowl wins. Baltimore won with Trent Dilfer at QB. I don't want respect like INDY.

PeekingDuck
05-01-2006, 05:23 PM
Offense scores and wins the game! ...I'm like Michael Irvin..."Offense wins the game!"

Not trying to be rude, pittbull, but what has Peyton won? Also, I would, personally, be a bit hesitant to openly align my intellect with that of a confirmed cokehead (and possible rapist).

PS - Please ditch the basketball comparisons. Comparing Bush to Jordan, or Williams to Bowie has got to be the most ridiculous analogy I've ever heard. A basketball team only has 5 players on the court at one time, making it exponentially easier to have a "one man show", ala Jordan.

Again, not trying to start a fight.

PPS - I wanted Bush, too, but Mario was the right pick. Thats why Koobs is in charge and not me!

Bobo
05-01-2006, 05:39 PM
In a sports era dominated by the media, high priced athletes, and greedy owners, The Houston Texans managed to do something improbable, building itself to one of the most respected organizations in all of sports! All in Four Years. Not only were the Texans viewed as an up and coming team, Free Agents, coaches, and media personel enjoy this area as a place to be, with tremedous upside. But just like the old kids song, "Houston's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, Houston's bridge is falling down, No Reg-gie Bush!"

In one costly decision, the franchise went from being one of the most respected around, to the most laughed at and forever will be. How long will it take to recover and get back to national respect? Even if the Texans were to make a strong rebound this season, for years to come the questionable decision made on April 29th will continue to haunt the team, the owner, but most of all, the city. Let's look at the comparison all want to make, the Jordan vs Bowie Pick. In 1977 Portland won a title, they were on the verge of others when they drafted Bowie, and they haven't been the same since! They have even gone so far to draft players like Sebastian Telfar to make the fans forget of the nightmare that became of that draft, but the franchise has yet to recover. Are we the NFL version of MLB's Tampa Bay Devil Rays or NBA's Portland Trailblazers? I think so!

Another way to look at it is this. Benson, owner of the New Orleans Saints went from N.O's version of Bud Adams, to the most respected man in Louisianna History. One pick put him back on the map, in terms of respect, the city back on the map, and launched what will be a financial generator for the community. McNair could have done the same for us! Could you imagine the respect and love Houston would have received nationally, drafting Superman in cleats, and the media attention placed on Houston for the next 10 years. Does it help you to win......Yes! Free Agents go where they are on T.V., Monday Night and Sunday Night games, playoffs come, and then national following. All that disappeared like a fart in the wind, after Casserly and McNair blew one!

What potentially did Houston miss out on? Yeah, I believe we got a heck of a ball player in Mario Williams. Add him to DeMeco Lyons and the Texans got the best of the NFL raft, with the best 1-2 combo! Now, add the Free and Strong Safeties, middle LB, and cornerback also needed to make this a better defense and we have something cooking, ooops, that is too much for us to handle in 1 draft.......exactly.

Regardless of drafting Bush or Williams, the Texans still need a core of players to bring them in the likes of the Colts and Steelers, as we have been so dooped into thinking we can challenge with the pick of Williams. Even with picking Bush, the Texans could have filled all major holes with picks on April 29, 2006 the only exception is, Williams' DE position, would have been filled with a third or fourth rounder, that can also have upside. Let's be honest, Lundy, RB from VA is no Reggie Bush. DeAngelo Williams, the second back taken is not in the same class as Bush, but there is a chance a host of DE's could be the same type of impact player as Williams. bush was rated the #1 prospect in 10 years. If the Texans would have been patient and played this thing smart, they may have seen the draft unravel like bad yarn, as it did. Think about Bush running behind Winstin Justice? Guys were dropping in the draft faster than our hearts did on Thursday eveing. This could have been the greatest Texan draft in history, but fear in the front office let the NFL's closest Version of Michael Jordan get away. Instead, New Orleans will reap our mistakes, with West & EAST coast love, as New Peaceful Hurricane has blown into town. Hurricane Bush will bring that community together, I just wonder, how much he could have done for us.

In short, I believe you are 100 percent wrong.

amazingandre
05-01-2006, 05:39 PM
You know there are a lot of people in these message rooms who obviously don't know anything about football. Neither Reggie Bush nor Mario Williams will make the Texans go to the Super Bowl. They will only help. There are another 10 players on the field at the same time plus you still have either the offense/defense to do work. So no matter what you all say or complain abot neither one of these guys will hepl unless the rest of the team plays good too. So stop all your crying :crying: and suck it up the Texans as a whole need to do good to gain respect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobo
05-01-2006, 05:41 PM
Based on what? It seems like everyone is trying to pump up this guy like he is the next Reggie White. At first, it was because of all the sacks he had in the second half of ONE season. Now, I am hearing that his lack of sacks before then was unimportant because "sackes are not the real measure of his impact on the defense". What did he do for three years on this defense that made everyone better?

I agree that all the hype by the media over Bush was way over the top and it was doubtful that anyone could ever live up to it. However, the hype that Mario (Super based on what?) is here is getting just as bad.

There have been a ton of half season wonders and draft combine "freaks" that did not amount to anything in the NFL. I have to question investing $24 million on a guy based on a half a season of output.

Every guy drafted is a spin of the dice. Might as well get somebody you really need than stock up at one position and be one-dimensional, right?

Bobo
05-01-2006, 05:43 PM
The biggest problem that Mario will have vis a vis Bush is that the two's impacts are going to be very difficult to determine from looking at a boxscore. Most of America will come down hard on the Texans unless Mario generates LOADS of sacks.

I don't believe that for a minute. The Texans will ultimately be judged on their number of wins. If they win more games, then they will have generated more turnovers. If they generate more turnovers, then Williams will get the credit.

aj.
05-01-2006, 05:48 PM
If I see Sam Bowie's name show up one more time, I'm going to build a cliff outside Reliant for all you lemmings to jump from.

1337texanfan
05-01-2006, 06:05 PM
PPS - I wanted Bush, too, but Mario was the right pick. Thats why Koobs is in charge and not me!
i wanted him to, but in reflection, i agree the pick was right and that why kubes is the head coach.

the past few super bowls have been won on defense's. the superbowl here in houston the first half was a boring game cause the defense had shut the oppossing offenses down, granted adjustment where made and the 2nd half exploded. i would like to know the last time a superbowl winning team had a defense in the bottom half of the league. i would have to guess prolly the 99 rams cause they put up alot of TD's that year. i go as far to say their has prolly been like 2 or 3 teams in the last twenty years that had a subpar defense and a juggernuat for an offense that won it all.

i agree with what kubes was saying for quality of player your getting. bush would have only carried the ball 15 times and caught it 5. so that is like 20 plays. i agree he is a mismatch and he could break anyone of those plays for huge yards and points. but with mario you would be geting a player who will be out there 60 snaps. now if he can learn to bring consistent pressure to the pocket for 60 out 60 plays, he would be worth his weight in gold.

with kubes picking of mario williams it goes to show you something. if kubiak was a QB in the NFL and watching film on this guy, he would be very worried.
the man is a physical freak. a 4.7 40 at 6-7 294lbs, 41inch vertical jump(same as reggie's), and bench pressed 225lbs 35 times. i mean the guy is a beast. vince young run a 40 in 4.6. if mario gets near you he will get you, he has the wingspan of a person 7 foot. he already has very smooth pass rushing moves. once an NFL Dline coach get his hands on mario and start to teach him how be an agressive RE he will be good. i agree one player is not gonna change this defense in a playoff defense, but he sure as hell is a good start. i dont think mario will be a sack artist, but he will bring so much attention on himself and it will free up other linemen to get at it. once mario start commanding the double team, the defense will start to cause problem for the offense. the penatration of the backfield is one of the thing you need in the NFL to win games. if you dont get in the backfeild threw your Dline you will lose. NFL games are won and lossed in the trenches of Oline and Dline.

Jimpster
05-01-2006, 06:28 PM
We lost respect from the NFL last year after playing a 2-14 season. Passing on Reggie was icing on the cake and a major marketing blunder.

StarStruck
05-01-2006, 07:05 PM
I don't understand a lot about football, the draft and the assessment of talent in choosing who to pick in a given situation. With that being said, my question is if the Texans had not chosen Williams as the number one pick, is it possible that New Orleans or Tennessee would have chosen him? If not, could the Texans have traded down a few picks and still accomplish the same thing but add some nice trade spots in the process.:confused:

B.Diddy
05-01-2006, 07:53 PM
For all those still crying about the draft know this reggie Bush hasn't done anything yet The player he is most commonly related to GALE SAYERS was a terrific player in college and a all right player inthe pros Reggie killed defenses that were luke warm but he had under 100 yards rushing aginst UT......Now take away that great USC line and replace it with the saints broke down line......take away Matt and Ledale White in the backfield with him to keep the D honest and replace them with Gimpy Drew Brees and Duece Mecalister
take away all those Great USC recievers and replace them with Joe Horn
...take into account that most NFL defenses are better than UTs defense
......Take all of that into account and you'll realize Reggie Bush will be a average back at best in the NFL.

B.Diddy
05-01-2006, 08:08 PM
A good pass rush will make our whole defense better Williams and weaver can compliment each other and it will take the pressure off our corners and allow our line backers to make plays when they flush the QB out of the pocket

Brandon420tx
05-01-2006, 08:22 PM
PS - Please ditch the basketball comparisons. Comparing Bush to Jordan, or Williams to Bowie has got to be the most ridiculous analogy I've ever heard. A basketball team only has 5 players on the court at one time, making it exponentially easier to have a "one man show", ala Jordan.

This will forever end all NBA comparisons, For all those who compare Football players to basketball players, i.e. Bush to Jordan. Take note in this, There is one thing that Jordan did that Bush will probably never do, PLAY DEFENSE as well as play offense, Same goes for all NBA and NFL players .... unless you count the Pats and a few other exceptions.

customdano
05-01-2006, 09:44 PM
This team has my respect as of right now. I believe trust and respect are two things that have to be earned, However as a fan I don't believe I have ever seen this years team play. So I will not dishoner them By bashing them before I have seen them play. I believe in in winning and not whining so until I see them lose without another team knowing that we were on their a........s
the whole time they will have my utmost Hope and Respect.

I was in favor of Bush myself but as the draft drew closer I lost a bit of respect for the way things were going down with his deal,and off field issue's. Front office say's it was a football decision I cant help but wonder If it was actually something they didn't like about Bush or maybe his pimp. I believe he is an awesome talent will do great things, but I believe in this team now and am prepared to eat crow later.

I believe success is the best revenge. With all the hype about Vince,& Reggie,and how they f...........ed up a no brainer like picking Reggie the team should have a chip about the size of Texas on their shoulder hope they play that way. I am still excited about a (Team) going on the field this year after seeing how many more they are adding every day I will choose not to memorize all their names and #'s untill after final roster cuts so many good players will have to go................ Bye Reggie cancel my #5 jersey order Please......................Go Texans

Texas
05-01-2006, 09:57 PM
We will gain respect slowly...

dat_boy_yec
05-01-2006, 10:04 PM
If I see Sam Bowie's name show up one more time, I'm going to build a cliff outside Reliant for all you lemmings to jump from.

I'd like to see that. Sam Bowie. So where will cliff be located exactly?

By the way lemmings don't really jump off cliffs to control their population. They are nomadic creatures and that idea was only popularized by some book in the early 1900's I believe. So you would be building the cliff for nothing.

Well, maybe for my entertainment. J/K

OzzO
05-01-2006, 10:28 PM
If we have a Bowie cliff, can we add the "marketing" cliff as well. Seems that was another arguement seen quite a bit. The marketability of a player regardless of team wins. As for the original question, not too worried about the respect, but I would venture to say it'll start to show itself with our FIRST winning season.

southtexan
05-01-2006, 10:50 PM
"He who laughs last, laughs best".

Please read the article posted, "Bush vrs. Williams".

I, too, was upset with Williams being picked over Bush. I love Bush. However, I am a Texan's fan, and in hind sight, I have to agree that the best pick for the team and the chance to win a super bowl rests with Williams.

As a fan, I hate it. I longed to see Bush break opposing players ankles on the way to another break away touchdown.

But, alas, it was not meant to be. I could become a Saints fan, but how could any self respecing fan change allegancies to another team. I can't. Houston is my hometown, and my team. Upset? Yes. Traitor? No.

Now that intellect has replaced emotion, I have to have faith in Kubiak and go with his choice. Only time will tell, but if history is a guide, then I have to admit that a stand out DE is more valuable to a winning team that a RB, no matter how talented.

So, I will lick my wounds, and pull as hard as I can for Williams to become what the team believes he will come. And if he does, we might find ourselves winning more games than we lose. Respect comes from winning. And when we become a winner, all those people who are now ridiculing the Texans will rhue that day.
Good post....emotion is a grade below intelligence.

Bobo
05-01-2006, 11:13 PM
a major marketing blunder.

Who the heck cares about "marketing?" Reliant Stadium will be sold out, marketing blunder or no.

Hookem Horns
05-01-2006, 11:43 PM
We missed the boat with Reggie Bush? Bush is more like a dingy than a boat. I think the Texans will start looking smarter even before the season starts. People are going to see what Reggie "Leon" Bu$h is all about this offseason. Just wait and see.

locopuertorro
05-02-2006, 12:42 AM
Mario Williams was the best thing for Houston Crap! Of course Houston is going to go into high gear spinning this kid. But the reality is that this kid showed little to nothing in college. NC State went 3-5 in their conference and weren't a very good football team. Williams was a workout wonder. Nobody was talking about him 6 months ago. He had a great workout and all of a sudden he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Houston had the first pick and wasted it on Williams. If we were talking about a fourth or fifth pick I might not be complaining but a first pick... that's insane. This kid has been known for taking plays off on defense, and his numbers didn't pick up until the end of the season and only against mediocre opponents at best. If anyone should have a HUGE question mark over his head it should be this kid Williams. He hasn't been that spectacular his whole college career, but he has a great workout and now everyone is saying how wonderful he is. Reggie Bush played day in day out and took no plays off. He played running back, wide out and punt returner. He was the best college player in the country and #1 on 21 NFL teams draft boards. His credentials speak for themselves. Williams has not been the caliber of player Bush has been and that's the difference. We had the #1 pick. You pick the best player available and that player was Reggie Bush not Mario Williams. Williams will be a decent player, but he won't have the impact or be the game breaker that Reggie Bush will be. There was a mistake made here and no amount of spin or smoke and mirrors will change that fact.

Having said that... I love my Houston team and I hope that Kubiak is as advertised. If he is, he will be able to make diamonds out of this lump of coal we call an offense. Hopefully, we won't be back here next year talking about who we're going to pick #1 overall again.

Hookem Horns
05-02-2006, 12:59 AM
Reggie Bush played day in day out and took no plays off. He played running back, wide out and punt returner. He was the best college player in the country and #1 on 21 NFL teams draft boards. His credentials speak for themselves. Williams has not been the caliber of player Bush has been and that's the difference. We had the #1 pick. You pick the best player available and that player was Reggie Bush not Mario Williams. Williams will be a decent player, but he won't have the impact or be the game breaker that Reggie Bush will be. There was a mistake made here and no amount of spin or smoke and mirrors will change that fact.



I think you were watching too much pre Rose Bowl ESPN. The best player in college and the BPA was Vince Young. He proved that on the same field. Reggie Bush may not have taken plays off however he was given quarters off, like the 4th QTR of the Rose Bowl.

Since the Texans committed to their previous #1 pick they were in no position to take the BPA, so they took the best player for their team. Whether you agree with Williams or not, they did well by not taking Leon.

Kaiser Toro
05-02-2006, 06:52 AM
Mario Williams was the best thing for Houston Crap! Of course Houston is going to go into high gear spinning this kid. But the reality is that this kid showed little to nothing in college. NC State went 3-5 in their conference and weren't a very good football team. Williams was a workout wonder. Nobody was talking about him 6 months ago. He had a great workout and all of a sudden he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Houston had the first pick and wasted it on Williams. If we were talking about a fourth or fifth pick I might not be complaining but a first pick... that's insane. This kid has been known for taking plays off on defense, and his numbers didn't pick up until the end of the season and only against mediocre opponents at best. If anyone should have a HUGE question mark over his head it should be this kid Williams. He hasn't been that spectacular his whole college career, but he has a great workout and now everyone is saying how wonderful he is. Reggie Bush played day in day out and took no plays off. He played running back, wide out and punt returner. He was the best college player in the country and #1 on 21 NFL teams draft boards. His credentials speak for themselves. Williams has not been the caliber of player Bush has been and that's the difference. We had the #1 pick. You pick the best player available and that player was Reggie Bush not Mario Williams. Williams will be a decent player, but he won't have the impact or be the game breaker that Reggie Bush will be. There was a mistake made here and no amount of spin or smoke and mirrors will change that fact.

Having said that... I love my Houston team and I hope that Kubiak is as advertised. If he is, he will be able to make diamonds out of this lump of coal we call an offense. Hopefully, we won't be back here next year talking about who we're going to pick #1 overall again.

The spin manchine was all about Bush and USC. All of their players dropped from where the experts thought they would go. Bush was not the best player, best person, best character, best need or best fit for the Texans. We will leave the light on for ya.

thunderkyss
05-02-2006, 07:36 AM
Mario Williams was the best thing for Houston Crap! Of course Houston is going to go into high gear spinning this kid. But the reality is that this kid showed little to nothing in college. NC State went 3-5 in their conference and weren't a very good football team.


do you think you'd be able to spot out-of-this-world talent on a bad team?? It happens all the time. If Reggie went to the N.O. Saints, for example........ how good do you think he's going to be?? 1700 rushing yards, 27 TDs, 1300 recieving yards 12 TDs??

I don't think so.

Nothing against Reggie.... but I honestly don't believe he was ever picked as the guy for this team. Not by Casserly, not by Kubiak, not by McNair. Choosing Kubiak as the head coach of this team leads me to believe that whole heartedly. I doubt you'll ever have a coach, come out of Denver that will value any runningback as the #1 overall draft pick. Not a Terrell Davis, not a Mike Anderson, not a Clinton Portis, not a Tatum Bell....... none of them.

Tell you the truth, I think they'll still be looking to get rid of DD, because he is making too much money for that position.

Did they want to take Mario with the #1 overall??

I doubt it. But we got no trade offers, and N.O. would surely take him with the #2. We had to take him with the #1.

RWBinJax
05-02-2006, 12:04 PM
Win football games. I don't give a crap what ANYBODY around the country thinks or says.

As a Jaguar fan, I totally agree Speedy.

Good luck to you and the Texans this year, except against the Jaguars of course.