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TexasJedi
04-30-2006, 10:49 PM
He was pretty passionate in defending Mario. He looked right into the camera, pointed to himself and said "Blame this guy right here", and something to the effect that I'll go to my grave defending this pick.

Perhaps the more interesting thing was his discussion of Bush. He talked about him not being on the field for much of the Rose Bowl, insinuating he is a part-time player. Perhaps there was more to the decision to take Mario than signability.

GhostRaider2006
04-30-2006, 10:54 PM
"Blame this guy right here"
Don't worry Charlie the whole city is lining up.

SESupergenius
04-30-2006, 11:00 PM
Well, which is it Casserly, does the coaching staff make the decisions or do you? You blamed the previous coaching staff for formulating the team and now you want all limelight on this 1st rounder? I can't ever tell the true story when this guy talks. He so arrogant it's disgusting and weighs very thin win the fans.

kiwitexansfan
04-30-2006, 11:03 PM
Perhaps there was more to the decision to take Mario than signability.

CC himself said that they were both signable. They took a football decision and decided on Mario. It wasn't about the money. It was about the team.

TexasJedi
04-30-2006, 11:05 PM
CC himself said that they were both signable. They took a football decision and decided on Mario. It wasn't about the money. It was about the team.
Well what I meant was that they may not have been as high on Bush as we were lead to believe.

Texandiver
04-30-2006, 11:05 PM
Bob Allen just asked CC if he was going to be back this year. CC said he doesn't know. He'll be having a meeting with Bob McNair soon. Also said reports about him taking a league office job are wrong.

GhostRaider2006
04-30-2006, 11:06 PM
CC himself said that they were both signable. They took a football decision and decided on Mario. It wasn't about the money. It was about the team.

Yeah and NFL front offices have never put a spin on their explanations to avoid critiscim before.:rolleyes:

Texans_Chick
04-30-2006, 11:08 PM
He was pretty passionate in defending Mario. He looked right into the camera, pointed to himself and said "Blame this guy right here", and something to the effect that I'll go to my grave defending this pick.

Perhaps the more interesting thing was his discussion of Bush. He talked about him not being on the field for much of the Rose Bowl, insinuating he is a part-time player. Perhaps there was more to the decision to take Mario than signability.


Casserly has said that he had graded Julius Peppers and graded Mario Williams, and Mario graded out higher. If the draft staff really believed that, well then, they did the right football thing. The right thing, even though Williams didn't play in the spotline like the glamour picks.

I think the thing that CC is really doing now is urging the fans to support Mario and not to blame the player for being picked. A lot of people might want to vent their frustration on the player, but the player can't help where he is picked.

And I agree with him on this point. Go Mario! :redtowel:

Texas
04-30-2006, 11:09 PM
Good pick in Mario...Bush will be great...but only for half a game.

swisher
04-30-2006, 11:21 PM
Most interesting thing he said, other than his very passionate plea to not blame Mario, was his description of Bush.

(Paraphrasing here)

Casserly said:

"Reggie Bush was a part time player in college.

Look back at the Rose Bowl, a game alot of people here in Houston remember clearly obviously. Reggie Bush wasn't on the field for half the game. You have to ask yourself, why wasn't he? You need to take that question and analyize it further.

When Earl Campbell played here in Houston he played the entire game. He wasn't a part time player. It's hard to justify paying a guy 9 million dollars a year to play 15 snaps a game.

When you have a great running back and a great defensive end, you take the defensive end. I make that pick 10 times out of 10 and I'll defend that pick for the rest of my career.

Reggie Bush is a great running back. We'll see how he does in New Orleans. We bet on our guy, and in the end I know we made the right choice."


And maybe I'm trying to read way too much into this, but I was struck at the tone of his voice throughout, but especially when he said "We'll see how he does in New Orleans" like he somehow knows he's not going to turn out the way people think he is.

I almost get the impression that people on the inside of the organization were fighting for Williams the entire time, and something happened thursday night to finally convince McNair not to pick Bush. What exactly that was, we may never know.

BradK10
04-30-2006, 11:23 PM
I'll say this, I like the fire our FO is showing in this whole ordeal. Nothing skittish at all, I like that.

CoastalTexan
04-30-2006, 11:26 PM
If he doesn't get the job with the league, will this draft make or break him?

BREAZE
04-30-2006, 11:29 PM
Perhaps the more interesting thing was his discussion of Bush. He talked about him not being on the field for much of the Rose Bowl, insinuating he is a part-time player. Perhaps there was more to the decision to take Mario than signability.

He picked the Rose Bowl as an example because that was a game most people could relate to. He said you don't pay a guy $9mill a year to be used part-time...Mario will give you every down. This is the 1st time he has used negative reasoning for not taking Bush. I thought the reasoning was nothing more than addressing the defensive side of the ball. Now Cass. seems to be going into his own defensive mode after getting a whiff of the vibe in Houston.

In essence it was a finacial decision because they want to pay big $ for an every down guy. If they believe Bu$h was used soley as a part-time player in college then maybe they have convinced themselves that he may become injury prone in the NFL...

HoustonFan
04-30-2006, 11:29 PM
I actually agree w/ Casserly here. Mario seems like a humble person. Hopefully the humble DE runs roughshod over the opposing teams and Vince. YEAH I SAID IT. WHAT???!!!!! Still got love for you VY, but you took it there in wanting to beat up on the Texans. It's all good.

GhostRaider2006
04-30-2006, 11:31 PM
I'll say this, I like the fire our FO is showing in this whole ordeal. Nothing skittish at all, I like that.

Unfortunatley they have to be this way. If they don't act like this they will get steamrolled and they know it. If they show any fear or dissension in the ranks they will get eaten alive.

BradK10
04-30-2006, 11:37 PM
Unfortunatley they have to be this way. If they don't act like this they will get steamrolled and they know it. If they show any fear or dissension in the ranks they will get eaten alive.

Well I've seen in the past other FO's that haven't been so gung ho in these matters.

swisher
04-30-2006, 11:42 PM
Unfortunatley they have to be this way. If they don't act like this they will get steamrolled and they know it. If they show any fear or dissension in the ranks they will get eaten alive.

After watching Casserly tonight, there were no reservations in his voice about this pick. I have no doubt that he thinks they did the right thing.

Even though he HAD to know this was coming, he seems pretty ticked off at the backlash from fans.

Texans_Chick
04-30-2006, 11:46 PM
I almost get the impression that people on the inside of the organization were fighting for Williams the entire time, and something happened thursday night to finally convince McNair not to pick Bush. What exactly that was, we may never know.


I think they mostly made the decision after Bush visited Houston. I don't think that visit went well. Check out this account:

Link: Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-texans-bush&prov=ap&type=lgns)

The mixed signals came even before Bush arrived at a news conference that concluded his visit in Houston. Team officials hesitated before letting him stand in front of the backdrop covered in team logos for the event.

The Texans are keeping quiet about the top draft pick. Coach Gary Kubiak didn't answer questions about Bush during a separate news conference earlier on the 2006 schedule

Then the very next day, they get Mario Williams to Houston.

The Texans couldn't say the visit with Bush went unwell that because they didn't want to derail any trade up suitors but I never got the feeling that Bush was in love with the Texans and vice versa, the way it should have been since Bush was in the media's eyes "the consensus #1 pick" and we had the first pick and wheelbarrows full of money.

If you know you are the first pick and you really want to go to that city, you sell yourself like crazy to the locals. Bush never did that.

Here's an example and some inadvertant humor given his parent's house situation:

Reggie Chat Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=322797&#post322797)

Texans_Chick: I know you know about the no state income tax in Texas, but did you know that the median house price for Houston is $137,000 (compared to $578,000 in San Diego). Extra good reason to come to Houston, isn't it. And you can drive a nice car here without worrying about getting salt and ice and snow on it. Just sayin.
Reggie:Thanks.

He says "Thanks." Not "Yeah, I've heard great things about Houston and blah blah blah. Perfect opportunity to say something nice about the city. If you look to the rest of the chat, he says nicer stuff about his favorite cartoon character and the potential of having a career modeling.

Just thinking out loud.

Ibar_Harry
04-30-2006, 11:50 PM
Casserly said in one interview he called Wednesday morning and Wednesday afternoon and then Thursday morning asking about Bush's problems with the house. They broke off negoiations Thursday afternoon. That's a lot of telephone calls for someone who is not worried.

I think they smelled something was wrong and I believe they are correct. So when you have a close decision and a lot of money invested you are worried about risk. It became very simple, because it looked like the risk was rising rapidly if they took Bush. I think the background of what started to appear scared McNair. I don't think they liked the gang affiliations part of the story. There is more to this story than meets the eye.

I think they began to see that Bush was about Bush, not the team. Everyone that has appeared before the camera has talked about the Team and that has been a major emphasis of Kubiaks. Therefore no one should be surprised and I think the next few weeks are going to explode in the wrong way for Bush. We did not need that nor did McNair and company want that.

There's all kinds of spin to try to not hurt Bush any more than he has been. But I really think the above is the reality of the situation.

swisher
05-01-2006, 12:02 AM
There really does seem to be more to this than meets the eye. I don't know, thinking out loud here too. Maybe it's me trying to rationlize the pick.

But ever since friday night when Williams was announced as the pick, something felt wrong about the whole thing. Not just the pick, but how quickly things turned.

If they had wanted Williams all along, then what was the point of even talking with Reggie's people? To drive the price down on Williams? Or was it because up until Thursday afternoon he was their guy?

I'm telling you, something spooked them.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 12:11 AM
After watching Casserly tonight, there were no reservations in his voice about this pick. I have no doubt that he thinks they did the right thing.

Even though he HAD to know this was coming, he seems pretty ticked off at the backlash from fans.

I agree he had to know this was coming. I just don't think they expectd reaction to be as massive and vocal and sustained as it has been but then again they haven't really been on the absolute wrong side of the fans yet. This is a first for the team. It was always as split audience when it came to criticsim of the team. Now for the first time it is coming from a united front and its full force and very loud.

Texans_Chick
05-01-2006, 12:14 AM
If they had wanted Williams all along, then what was the point of even talking with Reggie's people? To drive the price down on Williams? Or was it because up until Thursday afternoon he was their guy?

I'm telling you, something spooked them.

You can't say that you don't want Reggie and you have to visit him or else you destroy trade down possibilities that allow you to get more picks and still get your guy. (Something that CC values). After the Carr bonus, nobody really believed we'd take QB, but nobody thought we'd pass up on Bush.

But it seemed like the whole Mario stuff really didn't take off until after Reggie visited here. And you got the sense after that point that the Texans didn't care if their negotiation style pissed Bush's people off--stylistically a bit outta character with the friendlish way the Texans tend to do stuff. (Something that worried me at the time for signability issues and happiness of the player post signing).

Obviously, nobody wanted the salary responsibility of the #1 spot. And there were plenty of great players at the top of the draft. So no trade was gonna work--especially after NO got Brees and didn't have pressure to take QB.

Vinny
05-01-2006, 12:17 AM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.

mexican_texan
05-01-2006, 12:18 AM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.
I doubt anyone in this draft that did not play TE for Maryland is more cocky--err--confident than Reggie Bush. No one had as much draft talk as him before January 4th.

Vinny
05-01-2006, 12:20 AM
I doubt anyone in this draft that did not play TE for Maryland is more cocky--err--confident than Reggie Bush. No one had as much draft talk as him before January 4th.Not impressed. I don't put people on pedestals myself. He is no better than you or I. No reason to be a jerk...ever...unless you are a jerk of course.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
05-01-2006, 12:23 AM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.


I agree 1000% about how they were turned off. I was turned off before he got here and his demands he was already laying out for the #1 pick he "thought he was guaranteed" to get. I was laughing the night they got the deal done with Mario.

NO is going to have to match that offer or better if they even think Reggie is going to step on that field. Especially with the $3.2 Million law suite about to be slapped on him from the marketing company that took care of his family while a USC.

I would not want to be in NO spot right now, nor Duece's spot because Reggie is going to sell tickets for that team and he knows it and so does the Saints. Now he will put the pressure on them and they are going to have to get him in there right now if they want to sell those seats.

dalemurphy
05-01-2006, 12:25 AM
There really does seem to be more to this than meets the eye. I don't know, thinking out loud here too. Maybe it's me trying to rationlize the pick.

But ever since friday night when Williams was announced as the pick, something felt wrong about the whole thing. Not just the pick, but how quickly things turned.

If they had wanted Williams all along, then what was the point of even talking with Reggie's people? To drive the price down on Williams? Or was it because up until Thursday afternoon he was their guy?

I'm telling you, something spooked them.

Two things strike me. First, I think Casserly and Kubiak had a difficult time convincing McNair to sign off on Mario. Second, I think they wanted to move down to 2, 3 or 4 and were attempting to keep Bush out there in order to receive offers for him. I do believe that Mario was the guy they wanted the whole time.

According to reports, N.O. didn't receive many offers for Bush either. Mort said that the Jets only offered #4 and then nothing until the third round. They wouldn't include #29 or #35 in the mix. I think that further hints at the fact that Bush isn't thought of nearly as highly as the media asserts, especially if you believe Casserly that the Texans never received any offers for their pick.

swisher
05-01-2006, 12:25 AM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.


That's right!! I meant to mention that.

In the middle of Casserly's lecture to the fans, he slips and says "Mario is a better human being..." and then pauses as if catching himself before saying something else. But he did say it, he says he was a better human being. What do they know that we don't?

Plus...go back two days before friday. Mario Williams is quoted as saying he really didn't feel like Houston wanted him, but New Orleans did. He said he was looking forward to playing where he was wanted. That has stuck with me, because at first I took it as a sure sign we were going with Bush. I wish I could find where I saw him say that...

Texans_Chick
05-01-2006, 12:26 AM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.

Crud. I didn't watch the show.

What did he sneak in there? Did he do it by praising Mario and by inference dogging Bush?

Edit: Thanks!!!! In the middle of Casserly's lecture to the fans, he slips and says "Mario is a better human being..." and then pauses as if catching himself before saying something else. But he did say it, he says he was a better human being. What do they know that we don't?

Wow, that is a little strong to sneak out. Interesting.

Ibar_Harry
05-01-2006, 12:27 AM
Casserly said in one interview he called Wednesday morning and Wednesday afternoon and then Thursday morning asking about Bush's problems with the house. They broke off negoiations Thursday afternoon. That's a lot of telephone calls for someone who is not worried.

I think they smelled something was wrong and I believe they are correct. So when you have a close decision and a lot of money invested you are worried about risk. It became very simple, because it looked like the risk was rising rapidly if they took Bush. I think the background of what started to appear scared McNair. I don't think they liked the gang affiliations part of the story. There is more to this story than meets the eye.

I think they began to see that Bush was about Bush, not the team. Everyone that has appeared before the camera has talked about the Team and that has been a major emphasis of Kubiaks. Therefore no one should be surprised and I think the next few weeks are going to explode in the wrong way for Bush. We did not need that nor did McNair and company want that.

There's all kinds of spin to try to not hurt Bush any more than he has been. But I really think the above is the reality of the situation.

When they choose someone like this, because of the investment, they immediately take out an insurance policy. But the insurance policy is not going to cover the kinds of problems Bush has.

Williams could fall over dead tomorrow - horrible example - but he would be covered if it was natural causes. Bush may not be able to perform for reasons that would not be covered by an insurance policy. Basically he is uninsurable right now.

Its like no draftee can begin practice until the contracts are signed. That's why we are lucky to have Mario's contract signed and he's ready to start work. Its a very smart move for both sides.

swisher
05-01-2006, 12:42 AM
Okay, here's the Mario Williams quote from Friday, just hours before agreeing to terms with the Texans:

Williams said Friday he wasn't sure whether the Texans' flirtation with him was genuine.

"I'd be happy to be taken first, naturally," he said. "It would be a great honor. I know I could help them if they thought enough to draft me in that spot.

"I'm not quite sure how interested they are. Maybe they're using me as leverage. I don't know. It's not frustrating to me. I'm not worried about it."

Williams told reporters Thursday he thought New Orleans might have become his professional destination.

"I think the Texans are interested in me, but I think New Orleans is more interested," he said. "Sure, I'd be happy to be taken first, but I just want to play for a team that wants to utilize my talents."

So, up to that point (between thursday afternoon and friday afternoon) Williams (at least publicly) sounds like he thought Houston was not going to take him.

The logical explanation is the Texans told him not to say anything until a deal was done....but....I don't think he would have used those words. I doubt he would have even mentioned the Saints if all he was doing was trying to not say anything.

So assume Williams up until Friday afternoon had doubts the Texans were interested....were the Texans really that clueless about who they were going to pick? Or did something happen that made the decision for them?

Listen to Mario Williams talk friday night. It's like a guy who just found out he won the lottery. It had not sunk in yet.

Bobo
05-01-2006, 12:56 AM
Well, which is it Casserly, does the coaching staff make the decisions or do you? You blamed the previous coaching staff for formulating the team and now you want all limelight on this 1st rounder? I can't ever tell the true story when this guy talks. He so arrogant it's disgusting and weighs very thin win the fans.

What "wears very thin" is the unwarranted criticism many folks are leveling at the team for the Mario Williams pick. As many on this board know, I am the first to fire criticism at the Texans and their staff. I have said very little good about them in the past several months. I'd be the first one to lead the badmouthing if it was deserving at all. However, in this case, there is nothing to blast, nothing to criticize, nothing to badmouth -- and I honestly don't understand the lambasting. This was the smartest, wisest thing for the staff to do and, quite honestly, it was a no-brainer -- something anybody who knows the ins and outs of football would understand. The fact that there is so much adverse reaction to what obviously is a very rational football decision makes me question the level of football intelligence within some parts of the Texans fan community.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:00 AM
This was the smartest, wisest thing for the staff to do and, quite honestly, it was a no-brainer -- something anybody who knows the ins and outs of football would understand.

But you see this is just your opinion nothing more and nothing less. And unfortunatley you are in the minority with your opinion.

Bobo
05-01-2006, 01:01 AM
Now for the first time it is coming from a united front and its full force and very loud.

You are dreaming. When they announced the pick, there were more people cheering it than booing. The criticism is hardly coming "from a united front." The only folks saying that is the media -- the same media that was hyping Bush from the start. There are many, many fans who are fully supportive of this choice as seen from the reaction to the pick. In fact, I would say more people back it than oppose it.

Bobo
05-01-2006, 01:07 AM
But you see this is just your opinion nothing more and nothing less. And unfortunatley you are in the minority with your opinion.

Wrong. I believe I am in the majority. Just listen to the announcement of the pick and you will hear more cheers than boos. But it's irrelevant anyway as far as how many falls on which side. This isn't a democracy when it comes to making this kind of choice. It's which is the smartest and wisest thing to do. I've heard all the arguments for Bush and, quite honestly, NONE of them makes any sense at all. The Texans did the wisest, smartest thing to do. It's NO who is going to regret the move when they have three good RBs, only one ball, and have problems everywhere else on the field. Some day, they are going to have to get rid of Deuce and maybe Bennett as well -- and they will have to get rid of them for pennies on the dollar as was the case with Travis Henry when the Bills drafted McGahee. It was NO who made the bad, bad decision -- not to mention the possibility of the scandal building and the potential problems in signing him. The Texans are going to come out on top here, no doubts about it.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:11 AM
You are dreaming. When they announced the pick, there were more people cheering it than booing.

Uhh sorry to call you out on this but I was there and that is not true. There was a very small contigent there at the draft party that tried to cheer but were quickly drowned out by all of the booing and the chanting of Reggie. Their cheering lasted all of ten seconds and the booing lasted quite a while.

The criticism is hardly coming "from a united front." The only folks saying that is the media -- the same media that was hyping Bush from the start.
Oh give me a break with your conspiracy theories. The only positive things I have heard have been coming from a small group of posters on the boards trying to defend the pick. I haven't heard anything positive from anywhere else.

There are many, many fans who are fully supportive of this choice as seen from the reaction to the pick. In fact, I would say more people back it than oppose it.

Well here is your chance. PROVE IT.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:15 AM
Wrong. I believe I am in the majority.

Again as I said before prove it. Show me this phantom majority.

MojoX
05-01-2006, 01:17 AM
Again as I said before prove it. Show me this phantom majority.
While he is at it, why don't you prove your case?

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:20 AM
Hey way to give a guy THREE WHOLE MINUTES :)

If you watched ESPN coverage today, you'd see that folks are starting to realize that yeah...maybe Bush would have been good too, but that Mario isn't the distastrous pick people like you are making it out to be

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:27 AM
While he is at it, why don't you prove your case?

I have no problem doing that at all. First turn on your tv and watch the local news. I have only seen two or three positive reactions in interviews from fans there. You know what the rest were. Let's shift over to the radio Sports Radio 610 am, KTRH 740 am, The ESPN Sports Animal 950am listen to these channels tommorow they all broadcast live on the air. I haven't heard one positive fan reaction there yet. Now onto the web and boards. The fact that Williams supporters are tired of responding to all the anit-williams threads only a day after the draft show the fact that they are seriously overwhelmed. It's a new person attacking this pick every 15 minutes with the same 5- 15 group of Williams supporters attacking their views when they get a chance. Hell why don't you jump over to ESPN and check out their poll of how we graded out that is quite revealing as well.

Your turn now.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:29 AM
Hey way to give a guy THREE WHOLE MINUTES :)

If you watched ESPN coverage today, you'd see that folks are starting to realize that yeah...maybe Bush would have been good too, but that Mario isn't the distastrous pick people like you are making it out to be

I am not talking about broadcasters I am talking about the fans. Show me a majority of the fanbase that is in favor of this decsion and I will apologize and change my tune.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:30 AM
I have no problem doing that at all. First turn on your tv. I have only seen two or three positive reactions in interviews from fans there. You know what the rest were. Let's shift over to the radio Sports Radio 610 am, KTRH 740 am, The ESPN Sports Animal 950am listen to these channels tommorow they all broadcast live on the air. I haven't heard one positive fan reaction there yet. Now onto the web and boards. The fact that Williams supporters are tired of responding to all the anit-williams threads only a day after the draft show the fact that they are seriously overwhelmed. It's a new person attacking this pick every 15 minutes with the same 5- 15 group of Williams supporters attacking their views when they get a chance. Hell why don't you jump over to ESPN and check out their poll of how we graded out that is quite revealing as well.

Your turn now.

I'm actually not sick of defending the pick to mindless folk like yourself. I'm not gonna say it was the pick the majority wanted, but it was the smartest.

The football intelligent members of this board won't run anywhere, they'll be here till the end hopeless trying to explain to those who just want to see the Texans logo on more highlights that this was the correct pick for the team.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:31 AM
I am not talking about broadcasters I am talking about the fans. Show me a majority of the fanbase that is in favor of this decsion and I will apologize and change my tune.

There is no the majority of the fanbase that is happy with the pick...but that doesn't make it the wrong pick.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:31 AM
Oh and if the majority of the fanbase always got their way (us throwing a ton of money at Carlos Beltran to keep him)....well, we see what happened there didn't we?

(for the record, I wanted us to do whatever to sign Carlos)

Bobo
05-01-2006, 01:32 AM
I am not talking about broadcasters I am talking about the fans. Show me a majority of the fanbase that is in favor of this decsion and I will apologize and change my tune.

If you would have watched channel 13 tonight when they showed the announcement of the pick on draft day, more people were cheering than booing. What more proof do you need?

Bobo
05-01-2006, 01:33 AM
There is no the majority of the fanbase that is happy with the pick...but that doesn't make it the wrong pick.

I believe from what I saw on draft day that a majority of the fan base is happy with the pick. If it isn't, then I wonder seriously about the football intelligence level of said fanbase.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
05-01-2006, 01:34 AM
Hell why don't you jump over to ESPN and check out their poll of how we graded out that is quite revealing as well.

Your turn now.



Mel Kiper gave our draft a B+, tied with 2 other teams for the highest grade. :ok:

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:36 AM
I believe from what I saw on draft day that a majority of the fan base is happy with the pick. If it isn't, then I wonder seriously about the football intelligence level of said fanbase.

I'll tell ya, I seriously question the football intelligence of the majority of our fanbase

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:36 AM
I'm actually not sick of defending the pick to mindless folk like yourself. I'm not gonna say it was the pick the majority wanted, but it was the smartest.

The football intelligent members of this board won't run anywhere, they'll be here till the end hopeless trying to explain to those who just want to see the Texans logo on more highlights that this was the correct pick for the team.

How grown up of you. I am dumb because I simply don't agree with you? Get over yourself. You lose complete credibility everytime you post something like this and comes off very child like.

Oh and by the way I believe Beltran is having a pretty good season so far.

MojoX
05-01-2006, 01:38 AM
I have no problem doing that at all. First turn on your tv. I have only seen two or three positive reactions in interviews from fans there. You know what the rest were. Let's shift over to the radio Sports Radio 610 am, KTRH 740 am, The ESPN Sports Animal 950am listen to these channels tommorow they all broadcast live on the air. I haven't heard one positive fan reaction there yet. Now onto the web and boards. The fact that Williams supporters are tired of responding to all the anit-williams threads only a day after the draft show the fact that they are seriously overwhelmed. It's a new person attacking this pick every 15 minutes with the same 5- 15 group of Williams supporters attacking their views when they get a chance. Hell why don't you jump over to ESPN and check out their poll of how we graded out that is quite revealing as well.

Your turn now.
That ain't gonna cut it. That's just turning to the choir and asking them to sing. The media just wants to report what makes for a better story and disappointed fans like yourself only want to hear your own crowing. You have to PROVE it, too. And internet polls aren't proof. Here's a hint:

Proof:
1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
2.a. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
b. A statement or argument used in such a validation.

3. a. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
b. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.

4. Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.

My point is that unless you both can get the Gallup Poll running, you can't prove your point. And there is no point playing the internet fillibuster game to pretend you can. Just accept the reality and move on. You can repeat the same tired, unproveable statements over and over but it 1) won't make them true and 2) won't change what happened.

PS: I wanted Bush, that is until is gangstaliciousness came to light.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:40 AM
That ain't gonna cut it. That's just turning to the choir and asking them to sing. The media just wants to report what makes for a better story and disappointed fans like yourself only want to hear your own crowing. You have to PROVE it, too. And internet polls aren't proof. Here's a hint:

Proof:
1. The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
2.a. The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
b. A statement or argument used in such a validation.

3. a. Convincing or persuasive demonstration: was asked for proof of his identity; an employment history that was proof of her dependability.
b. The state of being convinced or persuaded by consideration of evidence.

4. Determination of the quality of something by testing; trial: put one's beliefs to the proof.

My point is that unless you both can get the Gallup Poll running, you can't prove your point. And there is no point playing the internet fillibuster game to pretend you can. Just accept the reality and move on. You can repeat the same tired, unproveable statements over and over but it 1) won't make them true and 2) won't change what happened.

PS: I wanted Bush, that is until is gangstaliciousness came to light.

That is about the biggest load of crap I have seen posted on this board yet and you come off sounding like a conspiracy theorist by saying the media is out to get you.

I have given sources wether or not you like them or not. Now its your turn. Put up or shut up.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:41 AM
How grown up of you. I am dumb because I simply don't agree with you? Get over yourself. You lose complete credibility everytime you post something like this and comes off very child like.

Oh and by the way I believe Beltran is having a pretty good season so far.

He is? I believe he's missed at least a weeks' time with injuries. We won't even touch last year for him (oops, did you forget he was with the Mets last year?)

Besides, what are you arguing with me for? I agreed and said this was NOT the popular picks with fans. I'm just saying that the fan who do defend this pick are not running like you state they are. We simply know what these teams needs and what will help them be more competitive, not some flashy "me" guy who will keep our A.D.D. fans entertained for a little bit.

MojoX
05-01-2006, 01:44 AM
That is about the biggest load of crap I have seen posted on this board yet and you come off sounding like a conspiracy theorist by saying the media is out to get you.
Here's a link for you: Special Help (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension)

And with that, I am now done feeding the troll. :)

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:47 AM
He is? I believe he's missed at least a weeks' time with injuries. We won't even touch last year for him (oops, did you forget he was with the Mets last year?)

Yeah he's been pretty decent aside from his injury. Here is his stats so far:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6132

Besides, what are you arguing with me for? I agreed and said this was NOT the popular picks with fans. I'm just saying that the fan who do defend this pick are not running like you state they are. We simply know what these teams needs and what will help them be more competitive, not some flashy "me" guy who will keep our A.D.D. fans entertained for a little bit.

Sorry for attacking but you basically called me an idiot in your last post because I don't agree with your opinion.You had to expect something as i would from you if I had done the same.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Here's a link for you: Special Help (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension)

And with that, I am now done feeding the troll. :)

Jeez I expected much more. And just because I disagree with you dosen't make me a troll wether you like it or not.

BradK10
05-01-2006, 01:52 AM
Yeah he's been pretty decent aside from his injury. Here is his stats so far:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6132



Sorry for attacking but you basically called me an idiot in your last post because I don't agree with your opinion.You had to expect something as i would from you if I had done the same.

But what did he do LAST year...that's what I was referring to, seems to me the Astros did alright without him.

Yeah perhaps I just grouped you in automatically with the knee jerkers on this board, my bad.

GhostRaider2006
05-01-2006, 01:57 AM
But what did he do LAST year...that's what I was referring to, seems to me the Astros did alright without him.

Hey I will admit he had a bad year plauged with injuries. But they didn't sign him for one year. I mean hell even Bagwell and Biggio have had bad years. I am looking for him to rebound especially since he is plugged right into the middle of my fantasy roster.

Yeah perhaps I just grouped you in automatically with the knee jerkers on this board, my bad.

As I have said before I am not a bandwagon fan. I am a proud to have my season tickets and won't be selling them anytime soon. I have stated many time before that I will not abandon this team good or bad. If they are bad I will just be rooting for a bad team.

And I apologioze for attacking again.

Specter
05-01-2006, 02:01 AM
If he doesn't get the job with the league, will this draft make or break him?
We had a GREAT draft, i remember us sitting on pick 33 and i was praying for winston and when they took ryans I was like WHAT?? But we ended up getting out man along with spencer and ryans is a pretty good linebacker for a great defense. I think this might be a best draft yet, well, except for the davis/ajohnson one. But seriously, i dont care what happens to Charlie, we got our money's worth for sure. :dance:

Texans_Chick
05-01-2006, 08:39 AM
I have no problem doing that at all. First turn on your tv and watch the local news. I have only seen two or three positive reactions in interviews from fans there. You know what the rest were. Let's shift over to the radio Sports Radio 610 am, KTRH 740 am, The ESPN Sports Animal 950am listen to these channels tommorow they all broadcast live on the air. I haven't heard one positive fan reaction there yet. Now onto the web and boards. The fact that Williams supporters are tired of responding to all the anit-williams threads only a day after the draft show the fact that they are seriously overwhelmed. It's a new person attacking this pick every 15 minutes with the same 5- 15 group of Williams supporters attacking their views when they get a chance. Hell why don't you jump over to ESPN and check out their poll of how we graded out that is quite revealing as well.

Your turn now.

The people that call into sports talk radio shows are usually the ones that are motivated enough to be put on hold just so that they can have the privilege of demonstrating how much their tighty whities are in a wad.

I am guessing after the shock of the pick wears off, people will come around to it.

jerek
05-01-2006, 09:07 AM
Well what I meant was that they may not have been as high on Bush as we were lead to believe.

They never were. Mario was the pick since he interviewed here and prior to that Bush was still the same great player who was hyped to the point of utter fallacy. Look at (a) Kubiak's historically proven system, and (b) the Texans roster in terms of need, and you could have seen this coming a mile away. I just refused to believe -- up until about 2-3 days prior to the fact -- that our FO would actually have the stones to follow through on this decision. And I am very glad they did.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 09:28 AM
They never were. Mario was the pick since he interviewed here and prior to that Bush was still the same great player who was hyped to the point of utter fallacy. Look at (a) Kubiak's historically proven system, and (b) the Texans roster in terms of need, and you could have seen this coming a mile away. I just refused to believe -- up until about 2-3 days prior to the fact -- that our FO would actually have the stones to follow through on this decision. And I am very glad they did.

Yep. If you watched college football, watched the Texans, kept up with the Texans moves in the off season - staff, FA acquistions, cuts, current and future investment from a cap stand point, dead cap moving forward - and realized how bad our defense was last year then this was the move to make.

TexasJedi
05-01-2006, 10:31 AM
They never were. Mario was the pick since he interviewed here and prior to that Bush was still the same great player who was hyped to the point of utter fallacy. Look at (a) Kubiak's historically proven system, and (b) the Texans roster in terms of need, and you could have seen this coming a mile away. I just refused to believe -- up until about 2-3 days prior to the fact -- that our FO would actually have the stones to follow through on this decision. And I am very glad they did.
You're right, we should have seen this coming, the pieces of the puzzle were there. But I will admit I did not put it together. I am ultimately pleased with the pick.

Texans Horror
05-01-2006, 10:50 AM
It's not that I'm mad about the pick, but there are so many questions about Mario. I think a lot of fans have felt burned by the Texans draft picks, so that's why when an "obvious" choice like Reggie came along, they were shocked that the Texans did not take it. I have concessions against Reggie, too, but I feel more confident that he will play every game. With Mario, I wonder if the Texans have bought a hot/cold player. I'm going to call this question the Super Mario/Luigi Conundrum.

SESupergenius
05-01-2006, 11:26 AM
I'm mad at the pick, I have no problems saying it. Here is why. We got Weaver in the offseason to go along with TJ, Robaire, and Payne. That should have been our line for the 2006 season especially if you add in that we have Peek, Babin, and Kalu as backups. Babin is pretty much going to be wasted and will be yet another casualty against our cap. We have to have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league.

"I wanted to make sure there was no holdout" - McNAir

Does that sound like a football decision?

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 11:28 AM
I'm mad at the pick, I have no problems saying it. Here is why. We got Weaver in the offseason to go along with TJ, Robaire, and Payne. That should have been our line for the 2006 season especially if you add in that we have Peek, Babin, and Kalu as backups. Babin is pretty much going to be wasted and will be yet another casualty against our cap. We have to have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league.

"I wanted to make sure there was no holdout" - McNAir

Does that sound like a football decision?

Why yes it does.

jerek
05-01-2006, 11:36 AM
I'm mad at the pick, I have no problems saying it. Here is why. We got Weaver in the offseason to go along with TJ, Robaire, and Payne. That should have been our line for the 2006 season especially if you add in that we have Peek, Babin, and Kalu as backups. Babin is pretty much going to be wasted and will be yet another casualty against our cap. We have to have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league.

"I wanted to make sure there was no holdout" - McNAir

Does that sound like a football decision?

Why, yes it does.

Besides, you are taking one quote and making it the end-all, be-all emphasis. This was a football decisions through and through. Mario was simply the better fit for the Texans. I sympathize with your loss, but I encourage you: give it time. This will feel a lot better in a few months.

pearland
05-01-2006, 11:37 AM
Mel Kiper gave our draft a B+, tied with 2 other teams for the highest grade. :ok:

Mel Kiper is a MEDIA PERSON!!

How many superbowls has he coached? How many times has he been a successful GM?

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 11:39 AM
I'm mad at the pick, I have no problems saying it. Here is why. We got Weaver in the offseason to go along with TJ, Robaire, and Payne. That should have been our line for the 2006 season especially if you add in that we have Peek, Babin, and Kalu as backups. Babin is pretty much going to be wasted and will be yet another casualty against our cap. We have to have one of the highest paid defensive lines in the league.

"I wanted to make sure there was no holdout" - McNAir

Does that sound like a football decision?

SES, you wanted to bolster the line and take D'Brick. You would have probably liked to have seen it via a trade down possibility, but I do not want to hijack your thoughts. Given the draft is over what do you think of our O Line and the offense as a whole now?

jerek
05-01-2006, 12:00 PM
SES, you wanted to bolster the line and take D'Brick. You would have probably liked to have seen it via a trade down possibility, but I do not want to hijack your thoughts. Given the draft is over what do you think of our O Line and the offense as a whole now?

I never liked D'Brick, IMO he is overrated. He is perfectly functional, but will never be a monster T. Watching his tape, I saw him get used just way too often. I was glad to see us address the O-line with Spencer and Winston, I think that both will be starters for us this year.

dalemurphy
05-01-2006, 12:01 PM
Mel Kiper is a MEDIA PERSON!!

How many superbowls has he coached? How many times has he been a successful GM?


ron wolf!

SESupergenius
05-01-2006, 12:43 PM
Charley inferred that Bush was not a very good person. Watch it again and he slips that in there. I think our Management was really turned off by his attitude and his representatives attitude.
And Casserly is the best person to get information and is believable? I'll give you quotes from him to the contrary if you want. I don't believe a word Casserly says, it's all total spin.

SESupergenius
05-01-2006, 02:18 PM
SES, you wanted to bolster the line and take D'Brick. You would have probably liked to have seen it via a trade down possibility, but I do not want to hijack your thoughts. Given the draft is over what do you think of our O Line and the offense as a whole now?
Well let's looks at it, what has changed. The biggest will be the move to a west coast offense, that right there involves everyone on the offense, not just set roles where the TE blocks and rarely goes out and the RB is used strictly to block for the RB like we had previously. That will be huge and if Carr is mentally up to it, our offense should be lights out. How has our offensive line changed? The biggest addition is getting a line general in Flanagan. Realistically however, Flanagan is on the downslope of his career and he wasn't ever really regarded as an elite linemen. What he brings is veteran leadership and in working with a player type similar to David Carr. But what else have we done? We put Wand in at LT for a few days before drafting Spencer and Winston, both players that might just be what this offense needed, but it's a big crap shoot at LT once again because we don't have a definitive player to play that position. I like Wiegart more than I do Wade and McKinney really is not that great. Our TE situation may be the best we've had in a while if Joppru can be healthy, so it's a little pre mature to assess that until more information comes out on him.

Overall we've upgraded the offense, especially in getting Moulds, but to me when you bring in a whole new system, new players it's going to take a while. Something that most fans do not have the stomach for. I personally felt that we should have take other roads this draft, but there is no doubt we've made the offense better this off season.

Kaiser Toro
05-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Well let's looks at it, what has changed. The biggest will be the move to a west coast offense, that right there involves everyone on the offense, not just set roles where the TE blocks and rarely goes out and the RB is used strictly to block for the RB like we had previously. That will be huge and if Carr is mentally up to it, our offense should be lights out. How has our offensive line changed? The biggest addition is getting a line general in Flanagan. Realistically however, Flanagan is on the downslope of his career and he wasn't ever really regarded as an elite linemen. What he brings is veteran leadership and in working with a player type similar to David Carr. But what else have we done? We put Wand in at LT for a few days before drafting Spencer and Winston, both players that might just be what this offense needed, but it's a big crap shoot at LT once again because we don't have a definitive player to play that position. I like Wiegart more than I do Wade and McKinney really is not that great. Our TE situation may be the best we've had in a while if Joppru can be healthy, so it's a little pre mature to assess that until more information comes out on him.

Overall we've upgraded the offense, especially in getting Moulds, but to me when you bring in a whole new system, new players it's going to take a while. Something that most fans do not have the stomach for. I personally felt that we should have take other roads this draft, but there is no doubt we've made the offense better this off season.

An observation that is hard to argue with. Man would it be nice to have a healthy Joppru.

Porky
05-01-2006, 02:49 PM
That's right!! I meant to mention that.

In the middle of Casserly's lecture to the fans, he slips and says "Mario is a better human being..." and then pauses as if catching himself before saying something else. But he did say it, he says he was a better human being. What do they know that we don't?

Actually, he said something to the effect of "Mario is a great football player, and an even better human being". I don't remember him making a comparison to Bush in that regard, and I was intently listening. Unfortenantely, I think I erased it on TIVO. He seemed to be imploring people to give him a chance, that this not only is a great player, but a great guy that everyone can get behind. He put down Bush (as I expected from the spin master) but only on the playing field. I never heard any kind of comment about Bush's character.

lsmoreno56
05-01-2006, 03:42 PM
Uhh sorry to call you out on this but I was there and that is not true. There was a very small contigent there at the draft party that tried to cheer but were quickly drowned out by all of the booing and the chanting of Reggie. Their cheering lasted all of ten seconds and the booing lasted quite a while.


Oh give me a break with your conspiracy theories. The only positive things I have heard have been coming from a small group of posters on the boards trying to defend the pick. I haven't heard anything positive from anywhere else.



Well here is your chance. PROVE IT.

I'm very happy with the choice the Texans made. A true fan realizes our weaknesses were our defensive and offensive lines. We didn't need Bush.

Texans_Chick
05-01-2006, 03:52 PM
"I wanted to make sure there was no holdout" - McNAir

Does that sound like a football decision?

McNair just said on the radio that they believe they could have signed either one. That near the end, they were close enough to sign with either one.


Hey, BTW, did anyone hear the Bush interview on the Today show? Somebody this morning told me that when Bush was asked about Houston, he responded that it is hot. And that this is all he said.

No state income tax and it is hot. Hmmm. Interesting way of interviewing for a job. Hello, if I got a potential big paycheck coming to me, I can suck it up and say all sorts of nice things about any NFL city. Dude didn't want to be here. It is so obvious.

Well, lucky him--now he gets both a state income tax in a place that is also hot.

shinerbock_girl
05-01-2006, 04:17 PM
I think they mostly made the decision after Bush visited Houston. I don't think that visit went well. Check out this account:

Link: Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-texans-bush&prov=ap&type=lgns)





Then the very next day, they get Mario Williams to Houston.

The Texans couldn't say the visit with Bush went unwell that because they didn't want to derail any trade up suitors but I never got the feeling that Bush was in love with the Texans and vice versa, the way it should have been since Bush was in the media's eyes "the consensus #1 pick" and we had the first pick and wheelbarrows full of money.

If you know you are the first pick and you really want to go to that city, you sell yourself like crazy to the locals. Bush never did that.

Here's an example and some inadvertant humor given his parent's house situation:

Reggie Chat Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=322797&#post322797)



He says "Thanks." Not "Yeah, I've heard great things about Houston and blah blah blah. Perfect opportunity to say something nice about the city. If you look to the rest of the chat, he says nicer stuff about his favorite cartoon character and the potential of having a career modeling.

Just thinking out loud.

Well i'll admit i was pro Bush before but now i respect their choice of picking Mario...I changed my mind about Bush's character when during the draft one of the commentators that interviewed Bush and his thoughts of being with the Saints. I wasn't too thrilled with his comment saying it would have been easier to have gone to the Jets because of his endorsements...The commentator said he feared he would lose alot of money in NO because of their poor market, rather then being in NY and making more money from his endorsements......Did anyone else see this???? I really thought that was an inappropiate thing to say after NO was soo happy to draft him, you'd think he was grateful....I believe Ncnair when he said Mario is ready to play football without distractions....So looks like they seen what was to come with all this publicity of Bush and his endorsements, court cases, so it would have been a big distraction and less concentration on playing football...It all fits together now that they did make the right pick...Mario is about playing football, he's humble, and Bush is about fame and fortune and what will bring him the most bucks...Very obvious now....Being drafted was not just good enough for him. He wanted to go where he could make money not just on football, but endorsements, limelight...NY is where he clearly wanted to go. Those comments he made really painted the whole picture to me. Mario hasn't mentioned the money once whereas thats ALL Bush has been taking about, even AFTER the draft.

swisher
05-01-2006, 06:24 PM
Actually, he said something to the effect of "Mario is a great football player, and an even better human being". I don't remember him making a comparison to Bush in that regard, and I was intently listening. Unfortenantely, I think I erased it on TIVO. He seemed to be imploring people to give him a chance, that this not only is a great player, but a great guy that everyone can get behind. He put down Bush (as I expected from the spin master) but only on the playing field. I never heard any kind of comment about Bush's character.


I'll go back and listen. I still have it. You may be right, but for whatever reason I did take it as a comparison to Bush.