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View Full Version : Drafting Mario Williams would be a mistake


ComstockLode
04-27-2006, 11:49 AM
He is a great physical specimen, no doubt about it. But he is not worth the number one pick by any means. He is very inconsistent at times, and lacks motivation for most games he played in college.

I think he has a much bigger bust factor than Bush. I used to consider him a sleeper going into this year's draft, maybe an early second round pick. He puts up some amazing combine numbers, and he is suddenly the number 1 player in the draft? Was there anyone who doesnt watch college football that did not expect these number to be put up? That is what I dont understand about the combine. Yeah, a few guys every year come in and surprise you with their numbers. But most of the players who put up spectacular numbers were expected to, if you watch any college football.

I like the guy alot, but his risk factor is much too high for a Defensive end to be the number one pick in my opinion. Especially considering the amount of money he will be guarenteed for that pick in the draft.

I believe if we draft him, we may set back the franchise another 3 years.

Thoughts/Opinions?

real
04-27-2006, 11:54 AM
i agree... Everyone is comparing him to Julius Peppers, but to me he doesn't compare at all to him...

pittbull
04-27-2006, 11:58 AM
Does anyone remember a guy named Peppers playing for the Tar Heels Basketball team. Uh, I do. The sixth man. I could understand if he got time at Kent State, like Antonio Gates, but UNC gets the best Bball players on the planet. If your an athlete enough to go there and take some true Bballer's spot, your way to atheletic, hence a freak. Williams does not fall in this category. Reminds me on Jevon Kearse, and he hasn't done anything since his second year in the league, serviceable, but far from dominant anymore!

thunderkyss
04-27-2006, 12:00 PM
The only problem I have with Mario, is that we'll have to move some people around, to make him fit... I don't know that 5 DEs is too much, but it's pretty darn close if you ask me. I like Babin to start, and Weaver.... so where would we put MW??

ComstockLode
04-27-2006, 12:02 PM
The only problem I have with Weaver, is that we'll have to move some people around, to make him fit... I don't know that 5 DEs is too much, but it's pretty darn close if you ask me. I like Babin to start, and Weaver.... so where would we put MW??

If you want babin to start, then apparently you want neither a run stuffer or a pass rusher.

Maddict5
04-27-2006, 12:04 PM
i must admit id be ok with picking mario but i would be very wary- being held sackless in so many games v average opposition worries me. ive read his explanation/excuse but he definitely is a bigger risk than reggie imo

Maddict5
04-27-2006, 12:05 PM
If you want babin to start, then apparently you want neither a run stuffer or a pass rusher.

save that till next season-we've haven't seen what he can do as an every-down nfl de yet

ComstockLode
04-27-2006, 12:07 PM
save that till next season-we've haven't seen what he can do as an every-down nfl de yet


I will put it this way, if I was a betting man, I would not hesitate in a 1000 dollar bet that babin will not be successful in any form as a defensive end.

Texas_Thrill
04-27-2006, 12:35 PM
I think Mario Williams has been inconsistent and I'm in huge favor of drafting him b/c i think defense wins championships.

Of course that being said you're right he does have the ....is he going to be Julius Peppers or Andre Wadsworth up or down to him.

Its all a crap shoot imo but yes I'd say reggie has less of the bust factor than williams.

All that said I'd still draft him.

Texas
04-27-2006, 12:47 PM
Your right it would be a mistake...If we want to continue the losing trend!

Wharton
04-27-2006, 01:20 PM
Actually, given the recent news on Bush, I'd say the bust factor is much higher with him then with Mario Williams.

Reggie put his luxury over the needs of this college, his coach, and his team mates. The Bush's rented a house from an agent and knew they were violating NCAA rules. Reggie knew it too. I say luxury because from the pictures I have seen of Reggie and his family, while they are not rich by any means, they are not desperately poor either. The Bush's could have easily held out for another year and done things the right way.

By doing this prior to declaring for the draft, USC could have been held responsible and lost the opportunity to play for the National Championship in the Rose Bowl. The game is vital to recruiting for the college and showcasing the talent of his team mates who would like to play professionally as well. Personally, I think the risk of a selfish player is much greater with Reggie Bush. There is another player in the NFL who is also selfish; he goes by the letters TO.

Mario Williams on the other hand, worked his way through high school at a Subway sandwich shop. I too, like many of us, worked my way through high school at fast food restaurant; its hard work. And hard work counts in my book. I say give Mario Williams a chance.

jerek
04-27-2006, 01:23 PM
Does anyone remember a guy named Peppers playing for the Tar Heels Basketball team. Uh, I do. The sixth man. I could understand if he got time at Kent State, like Antonio Gates, but UNC gets the best Bball players on the planet. If your an athlete enough to go there and take some true Bballer's spot, your way to atheletic, hence a freak. Williams does not fall in this category. Reminds me on Jevon Kearse, and he hasn't done anything since his second year in the league, serviceable, but far from dominant anymore!

I get it: Mario didn't play basketball, thus he isn't the athlete that Peppers is.

I wonder if his measurables (you know, the things that "measure" athleticism) being fully superior to Peppers has anything to do with being representative of his athleticism?

You are free to ask questions of the guy but athleticism is, IMO, the worst possible reach you could come up with for finding knocks against the guy. His superior athleticism is the one thing about him which is most certain and readily documented.

real
04-27-2006, 01:32 PM
Reggie put his luxury over the needs of this college, his coach, and his team mates. .


I don't think he did any of that, If I were him I probably would have done the same thing...He took care of his family...whats wrong with that?

Coach C.
04-27-2006, 01:34 PM
Mario is more of a Bruce Smith type pick or Reggie White than Julius Peppers. The guy is faster, stronger, more agile, and larger. Compare Mario to Bruce Smith and then think about his bust factor. The same way you compare Bush to HOFer Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. Both of these guys if they come in and work hard should be solid if not great NFL players. They both have great intangibles and hopefully we do go Mario.

wrestler4life
04-27-2006, 01:36 PM
The guy probably came up to the Bush family and said.."Hey, I have a house you can rent nearer the campus and that is nicer and cheaper than the one you hvae now."
No one bought him or his family a house. They still collected rent. I think that this is all being blown completely out of proportion.
Now, as for the new QB being called on rape charges...
Would not want to be Pete right now

real
04-27-2006, 01:40 PM
Mario is more of a Bruce Smith type pick or Reggie White than Julius Peppers. The guy is faster, stronger, more agile, and larger. Compare Mario to Bruce Smith and then think about his bust factor. The same way you compare Bush to HOFer Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. Both of these guys if they come in and work hard should be solid if not great NFL players. They both have great intangibles and hopefully we do go Mario.
No how about we compare neither of these guys to anybody and just go for what we know and what we've seen from them thus far...And i think reggie would win that argument by a landslide...

Wharton
04-27-2006, 02:43 PM
I don't think he did any of that, If I were him I probably would have done the same thing...He took care of his family...whats wrong with that?I don't disagree in the fact that family comes first. In this case, its my opinion that his family was not in any danger, did not need to be taken of, or in such dire straits that they could not follow the rules. I'm pretty sure that the Bush family was not living on the streets or in a homeless shelter. What harm would have come to the Bush's if they had followed the rules and not jeopardized Reggie’s career?

For instance, what if the Bush family had gotten caught at the beginning of the season? I suspect USC would have been investigated and Reggie would have been suspended. The suspension and turmoil created by the investigation could have jeopardized USC's season and cost them a bowl bid. Seems like the Bush's took on allot of risk for USC with little to no forethought about the consequences. Again, it shows a player who does not consider the effects of the team at all.

Double Barrel
04-27-2006, 02:51 PM
I don't think Williams will be a bust, any more than I think Bush or Young will be busts. All three of these guys are easily top 10 players, if not top 5.

Williams' sack total must be kept in perspective. The defense they ran had him playing the run and out in the flats a good part of the time, and he had to develop techniques to get around the cut blocking that was being thrown at him. By the second half of the season, he really started to get in stride and make impacts on the game.

Porky
04-27-2006, 02:51 PM
Actually, given the recent news on Bush, I'd say the bust factor is much higher with him then with Mario Williams.

Reggie put his luxury over the needs of this college, his coach, and his team mates.

Let's say your opinion is the truth. How does this increase his bust potential?

Porky
04-27-2006, 02:53 PM
This take is from Len Pasquarelli: (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2423861&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines)

Scouts love all the "measurables" with Williams and keep comparing him to Julius Peppers. Heck, I know one team that thinks he might be the second coming of Richard Seymour. But when you watch him on tape, you don't see consistent production. I went back and checked yesterday on some stats. Williams played in 36 games in college, yet had sacks in just 16 of those games. Of his 25 1/2 career sacks, 13 came in four games. In 2005, he had 14 1/2 sacks, but had three against Wake Forest, three against southern miss and four against Maryland. In 2004, he had six sacks, but three of those were against Florida State. As for the Texans' flirtation with him. Part of it definitely is a negotiating ploy. From a football standpoint, it's a split house in Houston, where some coaches are pushing hard for Williams and some scouts wonder if he's the real deal. Could they take him first? Yeah, I think so, even though I think it would be a mistake. The Texans are starting to get a little antsy, we hear, over some of the Bush stuff.

kingh99
04-27-2006, 03:15 PM
He is a great physical specimen, no doubt about it. But he is not worth the number one pick by any means. He is very inconsistent at times, and lacks motivation for most games he played in college.

I think he has a much bigger bust factor than Bush. I used to consider him a sleeper going into this year's draft, maybe an early second round pick. He puts up some amazing combine numbers, and he is suddenly the number 1 player in the draft? Was there anyone who doesnt watch college football that did not expect these number to be put up? That is what I dont understand about the combine. Yeah, a few guys every year come in and surprise you with their numbers. But most of the players who put up spectacular numbers were expected to, if you watch any college football.

I like the guy alot, but his risk factor is much too high for a Defensive end to be the number one pick in my opinion. Especially considering the amount of money he will be guarenteed for that pick in the draft.

I believe if we draft him, we may set back the franchise another 3 years.

Thoughts/Opinions?

My whole take on Mario Williams is I look at guys that put out for a contract with a jaundiced eye. This feller named Kelvin Cato taught me some guys will bust their butts to impress for a big contract then go back to sleep, all the richer. Who was Mario Williams before the last 3 games of the season? Huh? Nobody I ever heard of. Big guys who put out when they need to worry me. Hell everyone worries me in this day of huge signing bonuses before doing squat at the pro level.

Coach C.
04-27-2006, 03:16 PM
No how about we compare neither of these guys to anybody and just go for what we know and what we've seen from them thus far...And i think reggie would win that argument by a landslide...

OK then let's go by what we do know of them without any comparisons, add what you might to this and just see who comes out ahead.

Size- Williams
Speed- Bush
Strength-Williams
Plays(this means plays that he will play)- Williams
Competition- Williams
Hands- Bush
Excite Factor- Bush
Uses- Williams
Impact-Push they both should have great impact either side
Hunger to be the best- Push
Work Ethic- Push
Explosiveness- take your pick instead of saying push I will give this to Bush

So far Williams is up by a slim margin you add some and then I will add some more lets see who wins hands down.

real
04-27-2006, 03:22 PM
I don't disagree in the fact that family comes first. In this case, its my opinion that his family was not in any danger, did not need to be taken of, or in such dire straits that they could not follow the rules. I'm pretty sure that the Bush family was not living on the streets or in a homeless shelter. What harm would have come to the Bush's if they had followed the rules and not jeopardized Reggie’s career?

For instance, what if the Bush family had gotten caught at the beginning of the season? I suspect USC would have been investigated and Reggie would have been suspended. The suspension and turmoil created by the investigation could have jeopardized USC's season and cost them a bowl bid. Seems like the Bush's took on allot of risk for USC with little to no forethought about the consequences. Again, it shows a player who does not consider the effects of the team at all.
Well Reggie is still going to the NFL and his family will have an even larger house now... And yeah hindsight is 20-20.... Like I said, if it were me, I probably would have done the same thing... He's not goin to jail...hes goin to the leauge...so in retrospect it was worth it

thunderkyss
04-27-2006, 03:30 PM
Well Reggie is still going to the NFL and his family will have an even larger house now... And yeah hindsight is 20-20.... Like I said, if it were me, I probably would have done the same thing... He's not goin to jail...hes goin to the leauge...so in retrospect it was worth it


do the same thing??

If they found this out 6 months ago, USC could have lost all chance of competing for a NC....... Reggie wouldn't have played..... we wouldn't be drafting Reggie Bush. He's lucky we found out after all that.

I don't think this has one thing to do, with what Reggie brings to the field, but I wouldn't have taken the chance, if I were given half the opportunity that Reggie has.

wrestler4life
04-27-2006, 03:40 PM
do the same thing??

If they found this out 6 months ago, USC could have lost all chance of competing for a NC....... Reggie wouldn't have played..... we wouldn't be drafting Reggie Bush. He's lucky we found out after all that.

I don't think this has one thing to do, with what Reggie brings to the field, but I wouldn't have taken the chance, if I were given half the opportunity that Reggie has.
I agree, stupid, stupid move. But, does that stop you from drafting him?

real
04-27-2006, 03:50 PM
OK then let's go by what we do know of them without any comparisons, add what you might to this and just see who comes out ahead.

Size- Williams
Speed- Bush
Strength-Williams
Plays(this means plays that he will play)- Williams
Competition- Williams
Hands- Bush
Excite Factor- Bush
Uses- Williams
Impact-Push they both should have great impact either side
Hunger to be the best- Push
Work Ethic- Push
Explosiveness- take your pick instead of saying push I will give this to Bush



So far Williams is up by a slim margin you add some and then I will add some more lets see who wins hands down.

Again You are going off things that don't matter or should come into play when we are talking about the number one pick....such as potential...The point of my comment was lets look at the things that they have done throughout their college career, not at what they've done in the past couple of months... I know about three months ago you didn't want Mario with our first pick.........Did You ?

real
04-27-2006, 03:56 PM
do the same thing??

If they found this out 6 months ago, USC could have lost all chance of competing for a NC....... Reggie wouldn't have played..... we wouldn't be drafting Reggie Bush. He's lucky we found out after all that.

I don't think this has one thing to do, with what Reggie brings to the field, but I wouldn't have taken the chance, if I were given half the opportunity that Reggie has.
__________________

You are right it has nothing to do with his on the field "capabilites", but if this is a lingering problem it could have a mental affect on him... But yes i would have done the same thing... If it were my choice of family well being or forfeiting a N.C...I'd forfit that bad boy.... i understand the team thing and all, but we don't know what his family was going through at the time, we dont know the details so before we judge, let's call reggie and ask him what happened...

thunderkyss
04-27-2006, 04:01 PM
I agree, stupid, stupid move. But, does that stop you from drafting him?

I don't want to draft him to begin with, but I don't think the Texans, or any other team should think twice about it.

But yes i would have done the same thing... If it were my choice of family well being or forfeiting a N.C...I'd forfit that bad boy.... i understand the team thing and all, but we don't know what his family was going through at the time, we dont know the details so before we judge, let's call reggie and ask him what happened...

As if he and his family were starving.... My family isn't particualarly well off, but we ain't broke either. I think I would have waited till my Professional Contract was signed, before I put said contract in jeopardy.

El Tejano
04-27-2006, 04:16 PM
Call me crazy here but, if I were a team that wanted a chance at the best player in the draft, wouldn't it be feazable for me to hype up Mario Williams just to make the team with the #1 pick go after Mario Williams?

I don't know, maybe I am just too crazy?

pittbull
04-27-2006, 04:23 PM
I get it: Mario didn't play basketball, thus he isn't the athlete that Peppers is.

I wonder if his measurables (you know, the things that "measure" athleticism) being fully superior to Peppers has anything to do with being representative of his athleticism?

You are free to ask questions of the guy but athleticism is, IMO, the worst possible reach you could come up with for finding knocks against the guy. His superior athleticism is the one thing about him which is most certain and readily documented.


No, I'm not saying that he isn't a great athlete, but every year people are getting compared and this is just another case of it happening. Bush to Sayers, Young to Vick, Leinart to Stabler. There is no way you can tell what a guy is going to be like, until he puts on those pads and does it at the highest level. All I do know is the three latter players did, consistently, from year 1 in college football. As for Peppers, he dominated, year 1 at UNC and is still dominating. I've said it, and I will say it again, If Bush and Young were not in the draft, hands down, I would go for Williams, obviously the third best player, but you don't pass up Jordan for Drexler, and get no compensation, is flat out lunacy. Every G.M. and team in the league is waiting for the Texans to blow this thing. Just my opinion. By the way, the guy is nowhere near the athlete as Peppers, the most dominant lineman in the game:redtowel:

champ1234
04-27-2006, 04:27 PM
OK then let's go by what we do know of them without any comparisons, add what you might to this and just see who comes out ahead.

Size- Williams
Speed- Bush
Strength-Williams
Plays(this means plays that he will play)- Williams
Competition- Williams
Hands- Bush
Excite Factor- Bush
Uses- Williams
Impact-Push they both should have great impact either side
Hunger to be the best- Push
Work Ethic- Push
Explosiveness- take your pick instead of saying push I will give this to Bush

So far Williams is up by a slim margin you add some and then I will add some more lets see who wins hands down.

Interesting thought, but I have to point out that you are reaching on several of your selections.
First...Competition? What is this? What has Williams done to earn such high regard.
2) Uses- I'm interpreting this as how a player can be used. As I see it, Williams has 3 uses: 1)pass rush 2)run stop 3)outside containment

3) Hunger to be the best- this is stupid, completely speculation

4) Work Ethic- We know of Bush's (LT workout); but Mario's is completely speculation

I fear we are really only gauging Mario's talent on about 6 or 7 games. He got half of his career numbers in 3 games against awful teams. Where was he the other 29-30 games? Also, remember that he was not the only player attempting pressure on the opposing QB. Manny Lawson was opposite him (1st round talent). Yes, he had great measurables, but so do many busts. I'm not saying he will be, but I don't agree that he has any less likelihood of being a bust.

kingh99
04-27-2006, 04:51 PM
who can honestly say they knew who the heck Mario Williams was 4 months ago. He's the bait the rest hope casserly takes.

caspian
04-27-2006, 05:06 PM
He is a great physical specimen, no doubt about it. But he is not worth the number one pick by any means. He is very inconsistent at times, and lacks motivation for most games he played in college.

I think he has a much bigger bust factor than Bush. I used to consider him a sleeper going into this year's draft, maybe an early second round pick. He puts up some amazing combine numbers, and he is suddenly the number 1 player in the draft? Was there anyone who doesnt watch college football that did not expect these number to be put up? That is what I dont understand about the combine. Yeah, a few guys every year come in and surprise you with their numbers. But most of the players who put up spectacular numbers were expected to, if you watch any college football.

I like the guy alot, but his risk factor is much too high for a Defensive end to be the number one pick in my opinion. Especially considering the amount of money he will be guarenteed for that pick in the draft.

I believe if we draft him, we may set back the franchise another 3 years.

Thoughts/Opinions?

I just think passing on Bush would be insane. If, for some reason, they couldn't find a way to use this phenom, at least get his *value* in a trade or something.

I'm not a Vince hater either...by any means. I love the guy. Right after the Rose Bowl, I was lamenting how difficult a decision the Texans had in front of them. Still, I think you can't blame picking Bush.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-27-2006, 05:11 PM
I don't think he did any of that, If I were him I probably would have done the same thing...He took care of his family...whats wrong with that?


AGAINST NCAA RULES... what more do you want

real
04-27-2006, 05:14 PM
AGAINST NCAA RULES... what more do you want
So you've never done anything wrong...or un-lawful....You are a perfect citizen...Get off it...He messed up so what....

thunderkyss
04-27-2006, 05:14 PM
Also, remember that he was not the only player attempting pressure on the opposing QB. Manny Lawson was opposite him (1st round talent). Yes, he had great measurables, but so do many busts. I'm not saying he will be, but I don't agree that he has any less likelihood of being a bust.

Good Point..... but remember USC had a couple first rounders on their line this year, a second running back, first round, a qB, first round, and a WR who will go in the first round..

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-27-2006, 05:24 PM
So you've never done anything wrong...or un-lawful....You are a perfect citizen...Get off it...He messed up so what....
Not a perfect citizen, but lets not get too crazy here a $750,000 home. If they were poor, you do not think a smaller home would have been fine. And nothing would have come about had he gone along with that marketing agency that put his family up the whole time.

I listen to 670thescore in chicago and last week Gale Sayers was on and was asked about Reggie Bush. He was skeptical about being a #1 phenomenon especially when it comes to being an every down back. he only averaged 12-16 carries per game, some passes, few returns, and you want to pay him the type of money he is going to request as the #1 pick in NCAA history.

I thought it was interesting thought coming from someone everyone is comparing him to.

I think Mario would be the better pick here because of one reason mainly. He is going to be brought in to do 1 job DE and he will be able to put full effort to that cause and become better and better.

Bush everyone is talking about using him as a RB, WR, PR, KR, etc. He is not an every down player, MARIO is!!

If you are selecting #1 you want an everydown player not someone that is going to play 13-15 plays at RB. I do not know if he can handle the workload, they did not use him at USC 20-30 rushes a game; maybe that was for a reason, that head coach is not a dumb coach!!!

Wharton
04-27-2006, 05:28 PM
He's not goin to jail...hes goin to the leauge...so in retrospect it was worth itMaybe, maybe not. Will your prospective change if the NCAA opens an investigation into USC and finds them in violation of the rules and stips them of scholorships and bowl games for the next three years. It happened at SMU and the program never recovered. What about next time Reggie decides to take a risk similar to this and gets caught earlier? This time it will be the Texans on the line and not USC.

I don't question his physical capabilities. Reggie Bush is a stud and that is a fact. What I question is his character. The draft is littered with players who have the physical capabilities but not the character to be an NFL player. At this point, I have no reason to question Mario Williams character.

real
04-27-2006, 05:43 PM
Maybe, maybe not. Will your prospective change if the NCAA opens an investigation into USC and finds them in violation of the rules and stips them of scholorships and bowl games for the next three years. It happened at SMU and the program never recovered. What about next time Reggie decides to take a risk similar to this and gets caught earlier? This time it will be the Texans on the line and not USC.

I don't question his physical capabilities. Reggie Bush is a stud and that is a fact. What I question is his character. The draft is littered with players who have the physical capabilities but not the character to be an NFL player. At this point, I have no reason to question Mario Williams character.
I agree...only thing is I don't care about USC or anything they stand for... I don't care whether they lose scolarships or not... and About his character....HA...I question your character... I don't know you, and you don't know him...What make's you think Mario Williams is a stand up guy??? I question his character...... I don't know him....

MikeMc
04-27-2006, 06:54 PM
Please, you guys watch too much NFL games and not enough NCAA games to be able to even comment on this debate. Most of you only talk NCAA FB during the spring (because of the draft), so I doubt most even knew who Mario Williams was until Feb!

Yet, Sporting News, Athlon, Street & Smiths, etc. had him as a 1st Team All-American back in July/Aug when the 2005 College FB preview came out. Named the national preseason Defensive Player of the Year by Blue Ribbon College Football. NC State had the top rated DL in the nation by most of those publications. So YOU may not have heard of him until Feb, but most knew of him last Feb (04).

Ever wonder why his sack totals may not have been the best (or compared to Jason Babin during his WMU days)? Why don't you go back and see what type of teams he played. Stats mean squat! Are you going to draft Tim McGraingle with the 2nd rd pick? He did lead the nation in tackles the past two seasons at the ILB spot! 4.7 for an ILB is good. He went to N'Western, so you know he is smart. Stats are used to prove an angle.

So with that, here are Mario's key stats:

2003 (FR)- 13 GS (full-time starter from day 1), 56 tkls (13 TFL) and 5 sacks

2004 (SO)- 1st Team All-ACC, 57 tkls (15 TFL) 6 sacks

2005 (JR) - 1st Team All-ACC, 62 tkls (24 TFL) 14.5 sacks

So maybe Elvis Dumerville is a better DE because he had 20 Sacks!! Oh wait, he doesn't have the measurables to succeed in the NFL. And he is not the next Dwight Freeney.....too slow to be.

I'd say the most glaring thing about MW is his TFL. It shows he is getting in the backfield and disrupting things. Also, he has had the best DL, so others were in on the sacks that he helped with containment & coverage. You'd know that if you watched NC St play.

TreWardTxn
04-27-2006, 07:51 PM
OK then let's go by what we do know of them without any comparisons, add what you might to this and just see who comes out ahead.

Size- Williams
Speed- Bush
Strength-Williams
Plays(this means plays that he will play)- Williams
Competition- Williams
Hands- Bush
Excite Factor- Bush
Uses- Williams
Impact-Push they both should have great impact either side
Hunger to be the best- Push
Work Ethic- Push
Explosiveness- take your pick instead of saying push I will give this to Bush
Who will make Carr look better, thereby making Kubiak look like a genius-Bush in a landslide

So far Williams is up by a slim margin you add some and then I will add some more lets see who wins hands down.

That's the trump card...

houstonhurricane
04-27-2006, 08:46 PM
The trump card is that Williams has never dominated an entire season IN COLLEGE...thus, he is not worthy of the number one overall pick. If the Texans really like him, then they should trade down even if the trade doesn't work in their favor numbers-wise. However, this garbage of not knowing who they plan to draft this late in the game, if true and/or not a negotiation strategy, is pathetic. They have one day left before the leverage of contract negotiations will switch to the player - figure it out and get a deal done!

outofhnd
04-27-2006, 09:55 PM
Noone is trading with us...

You pick from the 2 with the question.. Which do we need more of? Offense or Defense?

Weve filled a lot of holes on each side in FA...

Alot of people questions peppers motivation on every play... Now let me pose this question when people challenge your motivation, are you more motivated to make plays when your money is at stake? I think so... Part of it is passion, but on the other side, its the fact the preparation in college is not as intense as it is in the NFL, there are games that are just gonna be a breeze for your team.. So obviously being young, and the coach fairly certain they have won the game is not going to push his players like an NFL coach does. In the nfl any team can win on any given sunday, thats why we watch. When Freeney was selected by the colts, im sure alot of you said "who?" now You would give your right arm to have a player like that on your Defense..

I think RB wise we are good now... Sure Bush is a fabulous talent... But what if he pulls a Bennie and we go 3 years into this 7 year deal with nothing to show for it? Kubiak being in denver of all places knows how easy it is to plug a back drafted in any round into a working system and do just fine.

Personally id love to have either one... Too bad we cant just say C - All of the above.

I would like to see williams. with the switch to a 4-3 we really are in a bind when it comes to a quality pass rush. A good pass rush could possible eliminate our need for a 2nd corner since the qb will have less time to look over the field.

Reggie doesnt solve 2 problems with 1 pick. sure he can run and catch but so can DD.. Mario can cause more 3 and outs because of his disruption..

So lets See mario gets us the ball more often, Reggie gives us a better chance when we have the ball. I like having more offensive oppurtunites vs better chance to score the few possessions we have then it becomes a shootout. with mario we eliminate their chances to tie or take the lead.

kingh99
04-27-2006, 11:00 PM
The Texans are still slow on offense with just the players they have. Maybe adding Walters, Putzier and Moulds was by design. I think they were trying to get some big wide outs and downfield blocking TE's to set up a playmaker. Wonder who that could be.

ComstockLode
04-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Please, you guys watch too much NFL games and not enough NCAA games to be able to even comment on this debate. Most of you only talk NCAA FB during the spring (because of the draft), so I doubt most even knew who Mario Williams was until Feb!

Yet, Sporting News, Athlon, Street & Smiths, etc. had him as a 1st Team All-American back in July/Aug when the 2005 College FB preview came out. Named the national preseason Defensive Player of the Year by Blue Ribbon College Football. NC State had the top rated DL in the nation by most of those publications. So YOU may not have heard of him until Feb, but most knew of him last Feb (04).

Ever wonder why his sack totals may not have been the best (or compared to Jason Babin during his WMU days)? Why don't you go back and see what type of teams he played. Stats mean squat! Are you going to draft Tim McGraingle with the 2nd rd pick? He did lead the nation in tackles the past two seasons at the ILB spot! 4.7 for an ILB is good. He went to N'Western, so you know he is smart. Stats are used to prove an angle.

So with that, here are Mario's key stats:

2003 (FR)- 13 GS (full-time starter from day 1), 56 tkls (13 TFL) and 5 sacks

2004 (SO)- 1st Team All-ACC, 57 tkls (15 TFL) 6 sacks

2005 (JR) - 1st Team All-ACC, 62 tkls (24 TFL) 14.5 sacks

So maybe Elvis Dumerville is a better DE because he had 20 Sacks!! Oh wait, he doesn't have the measurables to succeed in the NFL. And he is not the next Dwight Freeney.....too slow to be.

I'd say the most glaring thing about MW is his TFL. It shows he is getting in the backfield and disrupting things. Also, he has had the best DL, so others were in on the sacks that he helped with containment & coverage. You'd know that if you watched NC St play.


I like alot of your points, but I disagree with a couple of things. Having other great Defensive linemen on your team shouldnt help your stock. This means he would face less double teams because other players on his team can make plays.

I'll put it to you this way, I expected big things from Mario Williams, and he never quite did as much as I thought he could. He disappears in some games, while other games he seems unstoppable. I think he will be a good player in this league, but not great.

I just dont understand why you would spend the number one overall pick on a player that wasnt consistent in college. I think he would be a reach as a first pick, and even in the top 5 in my opinion. I was always waiting for him to make that next step into elite company(talking about greatest DE's to play the game) and yet he never quite made that jump.

outofhnd
04-27-2006, 11:31 PM
Maybe, or maybe they are just upgrading over what we had before.. Last I checked Moulds could catch passes when they are thrown to him. Last I checked Putzier lit us up in mile high..

Putz isnt big on blocking but blocking helps everyone. Maybe we moved to a 4-3 to draft a sstud DE?

You could also argue that as well

But I go by averages...

The law of averages say if you have more chances to score you have more chances to win.. so would yourather watch reggie drive down and score and pray our D holds? or do you want Williams to help us stop the other teams drives and get us the ball back?

Reggie gives you a better chance to score when you have the ball,
Williams gives you the chance to get the ball for your offense..

So would you rather have a few really good chances? Or a lot of chances that keeps the other offense on the sideline?

This is why defenses win championships.. great offenses cant come back and beat you if they dont have the ball.

TexansCanes
04-27-2006, 11:58 PM
who can honestly say they knew who the heck Mario Williams was 4 months ago. He's the bait the rest hope casserly takes.

with question like this i wonder if ya'll even watch college football. i've know about mario since he was a senior in high school. just because you didn't know who he was before the combine doesn't mean the guy isn't good or not worthly of the 1st pick. do yourselves a favor and watch some college football so you can learn about these guys. i really don't care who we draft because i have reason for and against both players, all i can say is that both guys are good and will really help out.

thunderkyss
04-27-2006, 11:59 PM
I like alot of your points, but I disagree with a couple of things. Having other great Defensive linemen on your team shouldnt help your stock. This means he would face less double teams because other players on his team can make plays.


Is that kinda like having another 1st round running back on your offense?? Another Hiesman Trophy winner at QB?? An all American offensive line?? potential 1st round recievers?? A bonafide NFL coach running the show??

outofhnd
04-28-2006, 12:06 AM
How is any of those things you mentioned gonna stop the other teams offense from a going down the field on a game winning drive... Sure its great to have all that offense when you have the ball but when you dont have the ball you are not going to change the outcome of the game.

If Mario is all he is cracked up to be, He will do more to turn our losing around than reggie.

When teams cant score you win games.

southtexan
04-28-2006, 01:44 AM
Mario is more of a Bruce Smith type pick or Reggie White than Julius Peppers. The guy is faster, stronger, more agile, and larger. Compare Mario to Bruce Smith and then think about his bust factor. The same way you compare Bush to HOFer Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. Both of these guys if they come in and work hard should be solid if not great NFL players. They both have great intangibles and hopefully we do go Mario.
Couldn't have said that better myself

Tejaspro
04-28-2006, 01:51 AM
There is one more factor in the Williams vrs. Bush debate. And it is a big one.

Bush will sell tickets....Williams won't.

And don't think this factor is lost on McNair.

It will be Bush.

MorKnolle
04-28-2006, 01:56 AM
There is one more factor in the Williams vrs. Bush debate. And it is a big one.

Bush will sell tickets....Williams won't.

And don't think this factor is lost on McNair.

It will be Bush.

I'm quite sure in this city of 4+ million people they can find 70,000 to fill the stadium every Sunday, projected ticket sales are not being taken into account whatsoever. One factor that hadn't been discussed much but I heard McNair mention on Cold Pizza earlier, our 2nd pick will alter this a little too. If we can get a significantly better offensive player [than defensive player] at #33 then it will swing the #1 towards Mario, while if there will be a significantly better defensive player [than offensive player] at #33 then it will swing the #1 towards Bush. That said, with Eric Winston and Nick Mangold possibly being available at #33 or the possibility of trading back into the late 1st (I thought I heard something about possibly trading with Chicago earlier today, that's what my buddy told me he heard on the news anyways), I think at least one of the big 4 RBs and/or a good OT will be there, so if anything I think that helps swing things more in Mario's favor.

I guess we have 34 hours left to find out.

ComstockLode
04-28-2006, 01:57 AM
Couldn't have said that better myself

You guys are in another world. If mario williams is reggie white, then I am vince young.

ComstockLode
04-28-2006, 01:58 AM
Is that kinda like having another 1st round running back on your offense?? Another Hiesman Trophy winner at QB?? An all American offensive line?? potential 1st round recievers?? A bonafide NFL coach running the show??

Well I dont think people are arguing bush is good because of the people he had around him.

MorKnolle
04-28-2006, 01:59 AM
You guys are in another world. If mario williams is reggie white, then I am vince young.

Mario is a bigger, more athletic Reggie White, at least as strong. Does that make you even better than Vince Young then?

threetoedpete
04-28-2006, 02:00 AM
The only problem I have with Mario, is that we'll have to move some people around, to make him fit... I don't know that 5 DEs is too much, but it's pretty darn close if you ask me. I like Babin to start, and Weaver.... so where would we put MW??

If Babin's house isn't already on the market, it soon will be. Babin is much too leaky a vessel to put this much faith in. I don't believe he makes it to camp if they draft another DE @ 33. Better get the jersey while you still can.

threetoedpete
04-28-2006, 02:06 AM
Mario is a bigger, more athletic Reggie White, at least as strong. Does that make you even better than Vince Young then?

Parrie chips, lol. Mario is an inconsistant player who happens to test out of the gym. That doesn't make him close to a HOFer. Someone will take him high on the numbers. Maybe us. That does not make it a prudent decision. What I do know is Mario isn't worth 40 mill.

real
04-28-2006, 02:49 PM
But yet he still shined much much brighter than anyone else around him...

bad
04-28-2006, 02:55 PM
Mario is a bigger, more athletic Reggie White, at least as strong. Wow.

I'm convinced that you're convinced.

I guess I can no longer refer to the great Reggie White as "the incomparable Reggie White".

:crying:

real
04-28-2006, 03:16 PM
Mario is a bigger, more athletic Reggie White, at least as strong. Does that make you even better than Vince Young then?

He may be bigger and more athletic, heck he may even be stronger.... But my question to you is.....AND ???

thunderkyss
04-29-2006, 12:55 AM
I'm quite sure in this city of 4+ million people they can find 70,000 to fill the stadium every Sunday, projected ticket sales are not being taken into account whatsoever. One factor that hadn't been discussed much but I heard McNair mention on Cold Pizza earlier, our 2nd pick will alter this a little too. If we can get a significantly better offensive player [than defensive player] at #33 then it will swing the #1 towards Mario, while if there will be a significantly better defensive player [than offensive player] at #33 then it will swing the #1 towards Bush. That said, with Eric Winston and Nick Mangold possibly being available at #33 or the possibility of trading back into the late 1st (I thought I heard something about possibly trading with Chicago earlier today, that's what my buddy told me he heard on the news anyways), I think at least one of the big 4 RBs and/or a good OT will be there, so if anything I think that helps swing things more in Mario's favor.

I guess we have 34 hours left to find out.

You are soooo wrong on this one.........














didn't take 34 hours.

MorKnolle
04-29-2006, 03:01 AM
He may be bigger and more athletic, heck he may even be stronger.... But my question to you is.....AND ???

And he is a better athlete and player coming out of college than a HOF DE which would be good reason to draft him, and we are drafting him.

Maddict5
04-29-2006, 05:27 AM
alright just found out this news cos i was away all yesterday, i would rather pick reggie but thats highly unlikely now-

Mario- well hopefully he can prove us wrong but if this goes bad down the line, we'll look like the biggest idiots ever- we'll be remembered when people talk about ditka etc.

oooooorrrrrrr...we'll look like the smartest FO ever if things go right