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View Full Version : Lord, please don't let Charley Casserly decide on the number 1 pick


bkimble
04-26-2006, 01:49 PM
I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble. :yahoo:

powerfuldragon
04-26-2006, 01:51 PM
How many NFL GM's have you listened to?

Plus the pick is up to Kubiak.

Hawg
04-26-2006, 01:51 PM
I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble. :yahoo:

Man I hear a lot of people bashing on CC. This man is a lot smarter than any of us give him credit for.

powerfuldragon
04-26-2006, 01:57 PM
http://www.extremeskins.com/images/database/charlie_casserly.jpg

Look. Those eyes are shrewd.

Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?

bkimble
04-26-2006, 01:59 PM
http://www.extremeskins.com/images/database/charlie_casserly.jpg

Look. Those eyes are shrewd.

Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?
yesssssss! This guy is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dhaNim
04-26-2006, 02:06 PM
I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble. :yahoo:

actually, it was on ESPN Cold Pizza this morning that word is Bob McNair is going to have the last word on who the number 1 pick is. and he is said to prefer Bush.

cass and kubiak like both bush and williams, so bob will choose who he prefers.

Trap_Star
04-26-2006, 02:09 PM
http://www.extremeskins.com/images/database/charlie_casserly.jpg

Look. Those eyes are shrewd.

Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?

LOL

Maddict5
04-26-2006, 02:41 PM
what difference does it make if he's the decider or not- he's already stated that its either reggie or mario, its a no-lose situation

dwilt72
04-26-2006, 02:46 PM
My avatar says it all......I hope they lock him out of the war room and drop him right after the draft. In my opinion he should have gone before Capers.

pittbull
04-26-2006, 02:55 PM
When I was in Pittsburgh, I thought the scariest sight was the Steelers on signing free agents and Bill Cowher shutting down the offense for the Steelers in the 4th quarter and letting teams comeback. But when it comes to the entire NFL, Casserly is heads above the rest. What this guy does is over analyze situations. If he were to trade the pick for multiple draft choices, I could understand his position (I would hate it though!), but to possibly take Williams #1 overall with no compensation would be the biggest mistake in NFL HISTORY! Williams may even turn out to be a great player, but to pass on Young, Bush, and Leinart with no compensation would be unbelievable, especially with all the hype around Bush! This guy is really a recurring nightmare every draft season. I will give him credit though, he did select Andre Johnson and Dante Robinson, although word was he really wanted Charles Rogers.........And we see what happened to him! But after those picks, his draft rating would be a D+. Please select the right choice....Bush for 06'

Grid
04-26-2006, 02:58 PM
People really need to quit being sheep and think things through before they form thier opinions.

Casserly has done a good job in the draft WITH THE PICKS HE DIDNT TRADE.

his only mistakes have been trading up. When he actually picked players, he has a nice track record.

keep him from trading picks, and he will get us some starters.

Runner
04-26-2006, 03:01 PM
Since he is most likely gone after the draft, it makes one wonder why the front office is keeping him around. I think it is because they value his opinion as part of the decision making process.

chuckm
04-26-2006, 03:03 PM
Since he is most likely gone after the draft, it makes one wonder why the front office is keeping him around. I think it is because they value his opinion as part of the decision making process.


or for continuity ...

Runner
04-26-2006, 03:07 PM
or for continuity ...

It's not continuity if he's ignored, is it? It is continuity only if he's involved.

chuckm
04-26-2006, 03:14 PM
It's not continuity if he's ignored, is it? It is continuity only if he's involved.


that's what I meant

Runner
04-26-2006, 03:18 PM
that's what I meant

Oh.

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 03:21 PM
People really need to quit being sheep and think things through before they form thier opinions.

Casserly has done a good job in the draft WITH THE PICKS HE DIDNT TRADE.

his only mistakes have been trading up. When he actually picked players, he has a nice track record.

keep him from trading picks, and he will get us some starters.

Completely untrue. Go look at his 2nd and 3rd rounds. His Day 1 percentage of gusy who can be good or who are still on the team is horrible. Look at the 2nd round after Gaffney that year. He passed up Portis and about 5-6 other guys who could have succeeded on this team. Also, you can't discount the ones he traded away because that is part of his job. That is ridiculous to do.

El Tejano
04-26-2006, 03:41 PM
actually, it was on ESPN Cold Pizza this morning that word is Bob McNair is going to have the last word on who the number 1 pick is. and he is said to prefer Bush.



Who doesn't like Bush? :ok:

Grid
04-26-2006, 03:46 PM
here is the problem with basing your whole arguement on 2nd and 3rd rounders.

2005: no 2nd rounder, Morency in the 3rd.
2004: no 2nd, no 3rd.
2003: Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek, Seth Wand, Dave Ragone
2002: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Charles Hill

now.. that means in 4 years we had 9 picks. The problem is that 8 of those picks came in 2003 and 2002 :P.

So lets look at them.

Morency: Not a bad pick. Alot of people are high on his potential. There are other players I might have prefered.. but we werent expecting to go 2-14 and have a chance at getting Bush this season. We needed someone behind Davis.

Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.

Peek: Great pick. This guy could be a playmaker for us.

Wand: Not a bust yet and quite possibly one of our starting tackles next season. Olinemen take time to groom sometimes.

Ragone: Eh.. this pick is perfectly fine. I would have loved a more IMPORTANT pick here..but teams do need backup QBs..and we have had to use Ragone in the past, so its not a terrible pick.

Gaffney: Great pick.. could have been a cornerstone for our offense if he hadnt been misused.

Pitts: Started every snap since he was drafted. Superb pick.

Weary: Seems to be a career backup..but we will know for sure with this new staff evaluating him.

Hill: the only real bust.


That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.

Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.

BTW.. just to keep things fair.

Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins

These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.

People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.

Chicagotexan1
04-26-2006, 03:56 PM
http://www.extremeskins.com/images/database/charlie_casserly.jpg

Look. Those eyes are shrewd.

Cass would make a good evil warlord, no?

I think he looks more like a great white shark.

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 04:02 PM
here is the problem with basing your whole arguement on 2nd and 3rd rounders.

2005: no 2nd rounder, Morency in the 3rd.
2004: no 2nd, no 3rd.
2003: Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek, Seth Wand, Dave Ragone
2002: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Charles Hill

now.. that means in 4 years we had 9 picks. The problem is that 8 of those picks came in 2003 and 2002 :P.

So lets look at them.

Morency: Not a bad pick. Alot of people are high on his potential. There are other players I might have prefered.. but we werent expecting to go 2-14 and have a chance at getting Bush this season. We needed someone behind Davis.

Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.

Peek: Great pick. This guy could be a playmaker for us.

Wand: Not a bust yet and quite possibly one of our starting tackles next season. Olinemen take time to groom sometimes.

Ragone: Eh.. this pick is perfectly fine. I would have loved a more IMPORTANT pick here..but teams do need backup QBs..and we have had to use Ragone in the past, so its not a terrible pick.

Gaffney: Great pick.. could have been a cornerstone for our offense if he hadnt been misused.

Pitts: Started every snap since he was drafted. Superb pick.

Weary: Seems to be a career backup..but we will know for sure with this new staff evaluating him.

Hill: the only real bust.


That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.

Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.

BTW.. just to keep things fair.

Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins

These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.

People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.

It depends on what kind of battle red type glasses you are looking at it through. I just turned on 610 and they are saying the same thing. In fact this is the third time this week I have heard people talk about Casserly having a bad tenure or bad picks. I was writing about it earlier in the year. Go take a look. How can you call Peek a great pick when you are talking "coulds?" He has been inconsistent at best. Gaffney was medicore and no matter the coaching wasn't worthy of that pick. We passed up Portis, Andre Gurode, LeCharles Bentley, Randla El, Antonio Bryant and Deion Branch. All better players. So the only one you named that has been consistent is Pitts. Morency is another "could." How is that good? Re-read your list. Look at you other list. Most are career backups on any other team and play out of necessity for us. I'm not repeating anything I have heard BTW..this is something I have talked about since we got Casserly..after he failed in Washington. Part of his job is trades and he traded those picks that you mentioned we didn't have. That is not good. Out of all of our picks I will unwillingly give you Carr and then it is Pitts, DD, AJ, and Duante as good picks. Mathis too. We even gave up an extra high pick for Hollings. He was a failure. Just because a guy plays out of necessity for us or you think he has "potential" does not make it a "great" pick considering we needed O-line in some of those instances and other, more talented guys were available.

Grid
04-26-2006, 04:09 PM
So then you feel that a good GM gets sure-fire 100% starters with every first day pick? People who just jump in and dominate the game right away? If thats the case..there isnt a GM in the league who can live up to your standards.

You deal with "coulds" because you cant say FOR SURE how good a GM has done after only 4 seasons.. because there are still going to be players on your roster that they drafted who COULD really be great picks.. you just arent sure yet.

What im saying is that of all the picks he has made.. he has had some great ones.. and he has had some good ones who still look like they could be contributers...and he has had VERY few busts from first day picks.

You are looking at examples of who we could have taken instead.. hindsight is 20/20 and for every player taken after the first round that turns into a star..there are 31 teams that passed on him.

Casserlys only REAL mistakes in the draft have been his trades. The trade up for Babin specifically.

Porky
04-26-2006, 04:12 PM
here is the problem with basing your whole arguement on 2nd and 3rd rounders.

2005: no 2nd rounder, Morency in the 3rd.
2004: no 2nd, no 3rd.
2003: Bennie Joppru, Antwan Peek, Seth Wand, Dave Ragone
2002: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Charles Hill

now.. that means in 4 years we had 9 picks. The problem is that 8 of those picks came in 2003 and 2002 :P.

So lets look at them.

Morency: Not a bad pick. Alot of people are high on his potential. There are other players I might have prefered.. but we werent expecting to go 2-14 and have a chance at getting Bush this season. We needed someone behind Davis.

Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.

Peek: Great pick. This guy could be a playmaker for us.

Wand: Not a bust yet and quite possibly one of our starting tackles next season. Olinemen take time to groom sometimes.

Ragone: Eh.. this pick is perfectly fine. I would have loved a more IMPORTANT pick here..but teams do need backup QBs..and we have had to use Ragone in the past, so its not a terrible pick.

Gaffney: Great pick.. could have been a cornerstone for our offense if he hadnt been misused.

Pitts: Started every snap since he was drafted. Superb pick.

Weary: Seems to be a career backup..but we will know for sure with this new staff evaluating him.

Hill: the only real bust.


That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.

Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.

BTW.. just to keep things fair.

Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins

These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.

People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.

Wow take off the battle red glasses. You couldn't have framed that in a better light for CC if you were him. OMG it's you! :bowdown:

Porky
04-26-2006, 04:18 PM
My beef is not with the #1 overall. A blindfolded monkey could make that pick. I am VERY concerned with the #2, both #3's, and #4. I just have this weird Jason Babin feeling that he is going to try and be the genius again, and trade up into round 1 with these picks for someone that isn't that high on most draft boards. I hope I am wrong, but CC just cannot help himself. He must ruin at least one more draft before being escorted out of town. I would rather have this guy running the war room this weekend myself:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/04/pf/saving/pepsi_monkey_game/monkey.03.jpg

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 04:21 PM
So then you feel that a good GM gets sure-fire 100% starters with every first day pick? People who just jump in and dominate the game right away? If thats the case..there isnt a GM in the league who can live up to your standards.

You deal with "coulds" because you cant say FOR SURE how good a GM has done after only 4 seasons.. because there are still going to be players on your roster that they drafted who COULD really be great picks.. you just arent sure yet.

What im saying is that of all the picks he has made.. he has had some great ones.. and he has had some good ones who still look like they could be contributers...and he has had VERY few busts from first day picks.

You are looking at examples of who we could have taken instead.. hindsight is 20/20 and for every player taken after the first round that turns into a star..there are 31 teams that passed on him.

Casserlys only REAL mistakes in the draft have been his trades. The trade up for Babin specifically.

No, that isn't what I'm saying but considering we were an expansion franchise and you have alot of picks to work with you should have more sure fire starters than we have. Many of the picks aren't even on the team anymore. No GM gets it perfect or even close but I just took down all of your arguments for the players you stated and yet you still fail to see how that is a failure. The first rounders we had were high enough where they were consensus, so in reality, the place where we needed to make a mark was the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Not only did he trade the picks but he picked poorly. I'm not getting how that is somehow defensible. Looked at the guys we passed alone for Gaffney. 4 years is plenty of time for guys to develop.

Grid
04-26-2006, 04:23 PM
I can deal with the homer accusations. Its to be expected when you disagree with something that all the other sheep take for fact, despite the illogic assumptions.

But I just cant handle the ignorance. A blind monkey can make a good #1 pick? Ever taken a look at 1st round picks and counted the busts?

Grid
04-26-2006, 04:26 PM
No, that isn't what I'm saying but considering we were an expansion franchise and you have alot of picks to work with you should have more sure fire starters than we have. Many of the picks aren't even on the team anymore. No GM gets it perfect or even close but I just took down all of your arguments for the players you stated and yet you still fail to see how that is a failure. The first rounders we had were high enough where they were consensus, so in reality, the place where we needed to make a mark was the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Not only did he trade the picks but he picked poorly. I'm not getting how that is somehow defensible.

And i already said that 2002 was a terrible year for everyone. it was a bad draft for starting an expansion team. Many of the 2002 picks arent on any team anymore..for anyone.

And no..you didnt take down all the arguments for the players I stated.. you said "how can you count 'coulds'" and I told you how. And I disagreed that Gaffney was a bad pick.

And im not defending his trading picks..I already said that.. im defending the incorrect assumption that he made poor picks.

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 04:40 PM
I can deal with the homer accusations. Its to be expected when you disagree with something that all the other sheep take for fact, despite the illogic assumptions.

But I just cant handle the ignorance. A blind monkey can make a good #1 pick? Ever taken a look at 1st round picks and counted the busts?

The only people who are sheep are those who follow blindly. I wrote this awhile back and habve my OWN opinions. Nothing says that those picks are good. You even admitted that they haven't, in some cases, panned out YET. You can't just have an opinion on what they MIGHT be like and then make it a success. One guy out of your list has been a true success so far, no matter what you think of their talent. That is reality. I consider my opinion to be well thought out and researched on the facts we have, not on "maybes." There is nothing illogical about it. Charlie has failed as a GM for this franchise for the most part and the reason why national and local media discuss this is not to be sheep but because the track record speaks for itself as of this discussion.

Caphorn
04-26-2006, 05:00 PM
I honestly don't see how the on-field failures can be pinned on Cass or even those picks by Cass. The coaching staff was pathetic - particularly the offensive coaching staff. Pendry was absurdly bad. He even made Andre Johnson look like a pedestrian scrub. Are you guys here to say Andre's a scrub because he regressed under Pendry?

I don't see how you can cut out the first round picks frankly. When I began looking at Charlie's picks I had the same general viewpoint that he must suck, because the talking heads say so. Then I quickly found in looking at the draft order that Charlie did not do that poorly. Dre was the best player in the draft when he got picked No. 3. D-Rob was a controversial, but EXCELLENT choice where he was picked. He blew away the experts on that pick. His 2nd to 4th rounders have done no worse than average performance wise of the guys drafted around them. Some of them are probably above average. He has 2 mistakes which you could say are big: trading up for Babin and picking up Hollings. The Babin deal was clearly influenced by a coach claiming he needed a LB for his 3-4 and the choices were slim. In retrospect not a great choice, but it had to be done. Babin has a great motor and is still playing for us. I'm not ready to punt on him individually because he absolutely needed development. That said, what did we give up for him? I know in large part it was an extra pick that Cass had manipulated for us from his Drew Hansen deal. So we really gave up a 7th rounder to trade up for Babin (looking through the deals)? Hollings was a total gamble. But it was only a 3rd round pick. These are important, but you are going to have some busts. As related before, Cass has had 2 real third round busts (guys that never helped out). He has yet to absolutely bust a first rounder. That's unusual among his peers.

swtbound07
04-26-2006, 05:05 PM
I honestly don't see how the on-field failures can be pinned on Cass or even those picks by Cass. The coaching staff was pathetic - particularly the offensive coaching staff. Pendry was absurdly bad. He even made Andre Johnson look like a pedestrian scrub. Are you guys here to say Andre's a scrub because he regressed under Pendry?

I don't see how you can cut out the first round picks frankly. When I began looking at Charlie's picks I had the same general viewpoint that he must suck, because the talking heads say so. Then I quickly found in looking at the draft order that Charlie did not do that poorly. Dre was the best player in the draft when he got picked No. 3. D-Rob was a controversial, but EXCELLENT choice where he was picked. He blew away the experts on that pick. His 2nd to 4th rounders have done no worse than average performance wise of the guys drafted around them. Some of them are probably above average. He has 2 mistakes which you could say are big: trading up for Babin and picking up Hollings. The Babin deal was clearly influenced by a coach claiming he needed a LB for his 3-4 and the choices were slim. In retrospect not a great choice, but it had to be done. Babin has a great motor and is still playing for us. I'm not ready to punt on him individually because he absolutely needed development. That said, what did we give up for him? I know in large part it was an extra pick that Cass had manipulated for us from his Drew Hansen deal. So we really gave up a 7th rounder to trade up for Babin (looking through the deals)? Hollings was a total gamble. But it was only a 3rd round pick. These are important, but you are going to have some busts. As related before, Cass has had 2 real third round busts (guys that never helped out). He has yet to absolutely bust a first rounder. That's unusual among his peers.

He has shanked two of them...Babin wont start for us, and Carr shouldnt.

Porky
04-26-2006, 05:11 PM
The only people who are sheep are those who follow blindly. I wrote this awhile back and habve my OWN opinions. Nothing says that those picks are good. You even admitted that they haven't, in some cases, panned out YET. You can't just have an opinion on what they MIGHT be like and then make it a success. One guy out of your list has been a true success so far, no matter what you think of their talent. That is reality. I consider my opinion to be well thought out and researched on the facts we have, not on "maybes." There is nothing illogical about it. Charlie has failed as a GM for this franchise for the most part and the reason why national and local media discuss this is not to be sheep but because the track record speaks for itself as of this discussion.

FWIW, I totally agree. And I am not a sheeple. I have my own views thankyavedymuch.

dtran04
04-26-2006, 05:13 PM
There are GM's MUCH worse than CC. We will see after/if he leaves what happens to us. Everyone online is an expert GM after seeing players for 3 years and saying we should have gotten so and so. Everyone falls into that trap.

Caphorn
04-26-2006, 05:21 PM
He has shanked two of them...Babin wont start for us, and Carr shouldnt.

Carr would start on most teams. Babin not so much. I wouldn't personally be surprised to see Babin do well. Like I said, he has a f'n motor. I've personally enjoyed watching him play and think he gets too much sh!t for the order in which he was drafted. He was drafted early, but he's hardly a bust in the classic - Lawrence Phillips, Ryan Leaf - sense of the word.

TwinSisters
04-26-2006, 05:24 PM
People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.

I agree. Now what was that you were saying about Vince Young?

:stirpot:

Texans_Chick
04-26-2006, 05:33 PM
That, to me.. doesnt look like a horrid record. It seems that the big problem people have with Casserly is about who he passed on in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.. well newsflash for ya.. 30 other teams passed on that player too. If you go and look at Casserlys picks and compare them to everyone elses.. alot of the time you will see that we got some of the better players in those rounds.

Also.. in regards to the 2002 draft. That was a horrible draft.. VERY FEW good players came out of it.

BTW.. just to keep things fair.

Jerome Mathis
C.C. Brown
Dunta Robinson
Glen Earl
Charlie Anderson
Andre Johnson
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Jonathen Wells
Demarcus Faggins

These are UNDENIABLE good picks that Casserly has made in rounds other than the 2nd and 3rd.

People need to quit repeating the negative bunk that others say.

Thoughtful post. I agree with the notion that people shouldn't just spew the negative stuff that others say.

I will add....

Most players will look better if they go to an established team that can help them develop, especially those positions that need more development time.

Jabar Gaffney, I believe, would look better if he is with a team with an established QB and offensive line. WR take time to develop. I guess we will find that out this year.

David Carr looks better behind a better Oline and with more experienced receivers.

We will never know these things for sure, but you have to be a very remarkable player to look really good on a bad team. Even some great players haven't been able to do it. (The Steve Young example comes to mind right away).

Some people believe it takes 5 years before you can properly evaluate a draft class--much less classes that involve a baby team and changing in the middle of the season schemes. It would not surprise me if Jason Babin has a nice season playing a position that is better suited to his strengths and one that is more familiar to him. And also not being injured like he was at the beginning of last season.

There was nothing in the Casserly Rome interview that really bugged me. (Cass actually kinda cracks me up in a Edward G. Robinson kinda way. seeeeee.) In a straightforward way, he said Reggie is the best offensive player in the draft and Mario is the best defensive player in the draft. It may be that he has to talk this way because Reggie's agent has never had a #1 draft pick, and for the picks he has had in the first round, he has held out a high percentage of them. With that sort of history, you need to try to play with some sort of leverage to get him to be even semi-reasonable.

In addition, what I found interesting was his discussion of the first pick as it relates to your other picks and what the pick does in relation to having him on the team versus not having him on the team. I could see that sort of thinking sending you in all sorts of directions.

Trade down fans are probably pretty disappointed by the interview with Cass saying that he hasn't received any nibbles. There are a lot of good players in the draft and I am guessing that other teams are happy with a lot of those good players and not having the salary burden of the first pick.

swtbound07
04-26-2006, 05:37 PM
Carr would start on most teams. Babin not so much. I wouldn't personally be surprised to see Babin do well. Like I said, he has a f'n motor. I've personally enjoyed watching him play and think he gets too much sh!t for the order in which he was drafted. He was drafted early, but he's hardly a bust in the classic - Lawrence Phillips, Ryan Leaf - sense of the word.

Teams Carr wouldnt start on
Green Bay
Atlanta
San Diego
New York Giants
New England Patriots
Cinncinati Bengals
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kansas City Chiefs
Carolina Panthers
Philidelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
Baltimore Ravens
Denver Broncos
Arizona Cardinals
Chicago Bears

18 teams that carr definitely wouldnt start for. As for the other options, here is why its debateable
san francisco 49ers-Alex Smith still has a lot of potential. Although alex smith is really really bad
Cleveland browns-they could use carr, i wont argue that
Oakland Raiders-I dont think carr is as good as aaron brooks, but i wont argue it
Buffalo Bills-I think he could start over losman, but i wouldnt swear to it.
Miami-Yeah, he could win that starting job
Dallas-I dont think he would win that job, but he might. bledsoe is good though.
New York Jets-If pennington returns to form carr sits, if not then carr starts
Detroit Lions-I dont think he is as good as kitna, but he might start there.

Porky
04-26-2006, 05:43 PM
There are GM's MUCH worse than CC. We will see after/if he leaves what happens to us. Everyone online is an expert GM after seeing players for 3 years and saying we should have gotten so and so. Everyone falls into that trap.

What if you said it when the picks and/or trades were made. I'm not a 20/20 hindsight guy. I said it right then and there. Whatchu got to say bout that? :stirpot:

Texans_Chick
04-26-2006, 06:01 PM
18 teams that carr definitely wouldnt start for. As for the other options, here is why its debateable.

Alternative history is a beach.

You can't say that definitively because there is no way to say how much of Carr's performance is surrounding cast and how much is him. It is the trouble with evaluating Carr.

If Big Ben starts for an expansion Texans team, does he look like a world beater or does he try too hard and land on his back a lot with stars and tweetybirds flying around his head?

If Carr starts for the Steelers, is he wearing Super Bowl finger jewelry?

There is talent in this world, and then there is superhuman talent that doesn't account for the team around you. Since football is such a team sport, it is hard to be so good that you can make up for other's deficiencies.

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 06:09 PM
What if you said it when the picks and/or trades were made. I'm not a 20/20 hindsight guy. I said it right then and there. Whatchu got to say bout that? :stirpot:

"Thoughtful post. I agree with the notion that people shouldn't just spew the negative stuff that others say."(Texan Chick)

I want to explain something. My comments above are regarding my own opinion and what I have seen over our drafts. This includes needs at the time and who we picked compared to who was on the board. I think people have it all mixed up. It is healthy to have an opinion if you believe in it. You don't have to toe the company line ALL the time. Some people on this board think that if you have a differing opinion ...don't like Casserly, don't like Carr, etc..that you are somehow against the team and just being a sheep. The only people who are being sheep are ones who take what the team does as gospel and expect things to happen. There is a reason why we were 2-14 last year. Lack of talent being one of them. Charlie was in charge of that. Plain and simple. These aren't "negative" things they are opinions from people who want to win and who think Charlie was wrong to start. IMHO I want people in the organization to not accept losing and when people get paid for these jobs they have to accept responsibility. There are some in the Charlie camp who will never take responsibility and blame the old coaches. Guess what?You are the GM and get paid to make those decisions. There are some in the Carr camp that think he is awesome despite the team. Guess what?Everyone was bad..INCLUDING his decisions. Until people take responsibility and then correct it, the wheel will go round.

Grid
04-26-2006, 07:30 PM
You can't just have an opinion on what they MIGHT be like and then make it a success.

Youre kinda missing my point. Im not saying that Casserly is a god among GMs. Im saying he doesnt suck, and he has made good picks.

And btw.. if I cant say they have been successes..you cant say they have been failures..so by that definition, you cannot say Casserly is bad, or good.

I consider my opinion to be well thought out and researched on the facts we have, not on "maybes." There is nothing illogical about it. Charlie has failed as a GM for this franchise for the most part and the reason why national and local media discuss this is not to be sheep but because the track record speaks for itself as of this discussion.

The fact that you see nothing illogical about that is hilarious.

For one..I share your feelings about my own opinion on this. Im basing it on facts. As for the "maybes".. you really do think that every player drafted on the first day needs to be an immediate starter then? I assume you also feel that our last coaching staff did a good job evaluating talent and giving them a chance to play?

Also.. show me the national and local media discussing why Casserly sucks.

And as I stated above.. how can Casserly have failed the franchise when you cannot say if he has made good or bad picks?

My point is that we have had very few real busts.. we have had 1 rookie of the year, one guy that should have been rookie of the year.. 2 guys that went to the probowl already.. numerous starters.. lots of quality depth.. and a list of guys that still might take it to the next level.. and your reason for saying he sucks at drafting is..? The trades? or Carr? or what?

If a person was drafted first overall...... HOW can you say 31 teams passed on him? Chucky has been inept, why do you think he is going to the NFL office? He is trying to get out of town...... before the entire experiment blows up in his face!

Its true.. if you dont share the opinion that Carr is a bust.. then its harder to see why Casserly failed.

Hes probably going to the NFL office because he is gonna get fired here, because the fans are asking for it... and probably also to erase the last real remnents of the past staff, and start over completely fresh.



He has shanked two of them...Babin wont start for us, and Carr shouldnt

Babin is starting for us, and ive heard that this could be a break out year for him at DE. And Carr is will continue to start for us.. get use to it or go follow whatever team VY goes to.

I agree. Now what was that you were saying about Vince Young?

What ive been saying about him is that we dont need him. He has the potential to be a great QB but he needs ALOT of work and he is NOT a sure thing. I dont like that he was incapable of running a traditional offense at Texas, and I dont like that he made such a low score on his wonderlic. I think the team that takes him is either gonna end up with a huge star..or a huge bust.. there isnt gonna be a middle ground with VY.

Teams Carr wouldnt start on
Green Bay
Atlanta
San Diego
New York Giants
New England Patriots
Cinncinati Bengals
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kansas City Chiefs
Carolina Panthers
Philidelphia Eagles
Pittsburgh Steelers
Seattle Seahawks
Baltimore Ravens
Denver Broncos
Arizona Cardinals
Chicago Bears


Packers: If Carr was on the roster, they would have phased out Favre after last season and Carr would be taking the reins this year.

Chargers: With Phillip Rivers on the roster, Carr would be competing for the starting spot this season. Judging by Rivers performance last year when he played, and Carrs performance the last 4 seasons, I think Carr would win.

Bengals: If Palmer doesnt recover.. Carr is the definate starter.

Ravens: The fact that you dont think Carr would start for the ravens is just.... god.. this alone should be a big red flag to me saying "dont bother replying to this guy"

Cardinals: Yes he would.

Bears: This falls under the same catagory as the Ravens. Quit smoking crack.

You can't say that definitively because there is no way to say how much of Carr's performance is surrounding cast and how much is him. It is the trouble with evaluating Carr.

This is a better way to look at it.


What if you said it when the picks and/or trades were made. I'm not a 20/20 hindsight guy. I said it right then and there. Whatchu got to say bout that?

You and probably 1000 other armchair quarterbacks. Go get a job as a GM or quit complaining.


I want to explain something. My comments above are regarding my own opinion and what I have seen over our drafts. This includes needs at the time and who we picked compared to who was on the board. I think people have it all mixed up. It is healthy to have an opinion if you believe in it. You don't have to toe the company line ALL the time. Some people on this board think that if you have a differing opinion ...don't like Casserly, don't like Carr, etc..that you are somehow against the team and just being a sheep. The only people who are being sheep are ones who take what the team does as gospel and expect things to happen. There is a reason why we were 2-14 last year. Lack of talent being one of them. Charlie was in charge of that. Plain and simple. These aren't "negative" things they are opinions from people who want to win and who think Charlie was wrong to start. IMHO I want people in the organization to not accept losing and when people get paid for these jobs they have to accept responsibility. There are some in the Charlie camp who will never take responsibility and blame the old coaches. Guess what?You are the GM and get paid to make those decisions. There are some in the Carr camp that think he is awesome despite the team. Guess what?Everyone was bad..INCLUDING his decisions. Until people take responsibility and then correct it, the wheel will go round.

I agree.. being a blind homer is never a good thing. However, there is a difference in "toeing the company line" and "looking at things from more than one perspective".

Im reading your posts and I see no good reason to say that Casserly sucks. Im not saying that because im in love with Casserly....I want to see Casserly gone.. he has made a lot of mistakes..but the mistakes werent his DRAFT PICKS. Where he made mistakes was in Free Agency, and in trading picks. When he actually made picks, he did a good job. That is what im saying.

You say that that is false because not every pick he has made has not yet turned into a playmaker or at least a solid starter.. some of them are still progressing. I disagree because I think that as long as the potential is still there.. and the player is still young.. then you cant say that he was a bad pick. Yet.

The whole basis for the "Casserly made terrible picks" seems to be based on who he COULD have taken. Well if I had the time and energy..i bet you I could go over the last 4 drafts and list PLENTY of GMs that have done worse than casserly. IF you dont take into account his trades.

HoustonFrog
04-26-2006, 07:44 PM
I agree.. being a blind homer is never a good thing. However, there is a difference in "toeing the company line" and "looking at things from more than one perspective".

Im reading your posts and I see no good reason to say that Casserly sucks. Im not saying that because im in love with Casserly....I want to see Casserly gone.. he has made a lot of mistakes..but the mistakes werent his DRAFT PICKS. Where he made mistakes was in Free Agency, and in trading picks. When he actually made picks, he did a good job. That is what im saying.

You say that that is false because not every pick he has made has not yet turned into a playmaker or at least a solid starter.. some of them are still progressing. I disagree because I think that as long as the potential is still there.. and the player is still young.. then you cant say that he was a bad pick. Yet.

The whole basis for the "Casserly made terrible picks" seems to be based on who he COULD have taken. Well if I had the time and energy..i bet you I could go over the last 4 drafts and list PLENTY of GMs that have done worse than casserly. IF you dont take into account his trades.


Well we will leave it at this. I don't think you are wrong per se, we just have different opinions. I don't think you are bad for having this opinion. What I was trying to state is that not everyone with a differing point of view on these subjects is trying to be negative or just go with the popular opinion. I am stating what I think are Casserlys downfall and IMHO 4 years has been long enough to judge these guys and I think he made bad choices with the positions he picked considering our needs in some cases. Time will tell but in my book he has failed in his duties so far..picking and traded. I respect your opinion though. It just is the far end of mine. I think in a year or two we will see that most of these guys are just backups and spot starters. Again, opinion as to what I see talent wise.

Grid
04-26-2006, 07:45 PM
Well we will leave it at this. I don't think you are wrong per se, we just have different opinions. I don't think you are bad for having this opinion. What I was trying to state is that not everyone with a differing point of view on these subjects is trying to be negative or just go with the popular opinion. I am stating what I think are Casserlys downfall and IMHO 4 years has been long enough to judge these guys and I think he made bad choices with the positions he picked considering our needs in some cases. Time will tell but in my book he has failed in his duties so far..picking and traded. I respect your opinion though. It just is the far end of mine. I think in a year or two we will see that most of these guys are just backups and spot starters. Again, opinion as to what I see talent wise.

Fair Enough :thumbup

Bobo
04-26-2006, 09:43 PM
I just head Cass on Rome. This guy is scary! He's the worse GM in the NFL, period. If Cass make the call on the number 1 pick we're in trouble. :yahoo:

Casserly sounded to me like someone who knew what he was talking about and gave a good, cogent explanation of his philosophy. Of course, some people in Houston believe that kind of thing is a firing offense.

cuppacoffee
04-26-2006, 10:20 PM
Casserly sounded to me like someone who knew what he was talking about and gave a good, cogent explanation of his philosophy. Of course, some people in Houston believe that kind of thing is a firing offense.

Mainly because Cass didn't have a TU player as one of the two he was discussing contracts with.

DenverBorn
04-26-2006, 11:49 PM
You have to be kidding me. CC is totally incompetent. Telling me he picked starters for a 2-14 disaster is a joke. Seth Wand? Chester Pitts? Dave Ragone? Tony Hollings? Charles Hill? Jabar Gaffney? His record has been disastrous. How can anyone say CC has done a good job in the draft? I still think the staff takes over Day 2, which is how we got Davis and Mathis. Although it sounds like Mathis may not work out. My guess is he gets released - he's not a competent WR and RB will be the kick returner. And he's a head case. But back to the topic at hand, aside for cinch top 10 picks, CC has been a total failure in the draft.

Hookem Horns
04-27-2006, 12:17 AM
Teams Carr wouldnt start on

Tampa Bay Buccaneers


You would start Chris Simms over Carr??

Carr lost me last year however I am not ready to say Simms is better. Speaking of Casserly, he passed on Simms to take Ragone. If you think Simms is better than Carr than in your mind Cass passed on a guy that is better than our starter to grab our career backup.

Runner
04-27-2006, 12:35 AM
...Carr lost me last year ...

Here is how I evaluate last year: I ignore it. I go back to 2004 and start there - for the entire roster. Yes, there were problems, but they didn't increase exponentially because of the complete system failure.

stevo3883
04-27-2006, 12:54 AM
quit being sheep .

wha?? an aggy bad mouthing a sheep??

If it weren't for sheep, y'all wouldn't get any lovin!

hahaha- hook'em and bring in reggie

Texas_Thrill
04-27-2006, 01:55 AM
Teams Carr wouldnt start on

Atlanta
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Kansas City Chiefs
Baltimore Ravens
Arizona Cardinals
Chicago Bears



Aside from Atlanta & KC.....he'd have a reasonable shot at playing immediately.

If ATL had any sense he'd have a shot and KC would have no problem phasing Green out in a year or so to let him get a shot.

All that said I'm not sure I agree with the way teams even develop QB's to begin with.

To speak on Carr specifically I think this is his boom or bust year just like Joey H's last year. He has weapons around him and he will probably have Bush to boot with what's already on the shelf. Granted I'm still not crazy about our line but we'll definitely see.

Erratic Assassin
04-27-2006, 03:34 AM
Joppru: Not...Casserlys...Fault. Quit blaming it on him.

That's passing the buck. Is Casserly in charge or not? It's Casserly's job to pick the players. If he's not going to take responsibility for his own actions, he needs to be demoted to a less responsible position.

Capers worked for Casserly, not the other way around. If Casserly didn't like the Joppru pick then he shouldn't have signed off on it. I love the "I was just taking orders from my subordinates" excuse. I especially love that no one calls BS on it. What kind of spell does Casserly have on you guys? If it's the coach's job to coach the players AND pick the players, then we don't need a GM.

If next Saturday is anything like the other 4 drafts, we'll all be pulling our hair out once again. I'll be shocked if he doesn't at least waste one pick on a backup quarterback.

Grid
04-27-2006, 03:45 AM
That's passing the buck. Is Casserly in charge or not? It's Casserly's job to pick the players. If he's not going to take responsibility for his own actions, he needs to be demoted to a less responsible position.

Capers worked for Casserly, not the other way around. If Casserly didn't like the Joppru pick then he shouldn't have signed off on it. I love the "I was just taking orders from my subordinates" excuse. I especially love that no one calls BS on it. What kind of spell does Casserly have on you guys? If it's the coach's job to coach the players AND pick the players, then we don't need a GM.

If next Saturday is anything like the other 4 drafts, we'll all be pulling our hair out once again. I'll be shocked if he doesn't at least waste one pick on a backup quarterback.

:confused: When Casserly takes a baseball bat to Joppru's knees..then I will blame him.

Joppru had no injury history and never failed a physical. His rash of injuries since he was drafted was ENTIRELY unexpected. Not Casserly's fault.. thats just bad luck.

rittenhouserobz
04-27-2006, 05:27 AM
Gaffney was medicore and no matter the coaching wasn't worthy of that pick. We passed up Portis, Andre Gurode, LeCharles Bentley, Randla El, Antonio Bryant and Deion Branch. All better players.

I am not sure which Gaffney you were watching. I was not able to get him on my television very much, because Carr never threw him the ball. I do remember a few times where Gaffney made outstanding receptions though. He may surprise you this year. Keep an eye on him this season.

bkimble
04-27-2006, 07:06 AM
You have to be kidding me. CC is totally incompetent. Telling me he picked starters for a 2-14 disaster is a joke. Seth Wand? Chester Pitts? Dave Ragone? Tony Hollings? Charles Hill? Jabar Gaffney? His record has been disastrous. How can anyone say CC has done a good job in the draft? I still think the staff takes over Day 2, which is how we got Davis and Mathis. Although it sounds like Mathis may not work out. My guess is he gets released - he's not a competent WR and RB will be the kick returner. And he's a head case. But back to the topic at hand, aside for cinch top 10 picks, CC has been a total failure in the draft.

I agee with all your points. CC have a hold over Bob McNair. I really thought McNair was smart, I don't anymore. Here's my concerns, the fans pay for tickets, etc., but the executives have to do what's best for the organization. When it comes to player moves, that means drafting the players they think give the team the best chance to win. That being said, I don't think Reggie Bush gives them the best chance to win, but if they do, they have to take him.

Sure fans may revolt in the short term if their guy isn't drafted or acquired in free agency or whatever. But if the team wins (because the executives are acquiring who they think is best for the team -- and they are right), the fans will come back and ticket, merchandising, and concession sales will take care of themselves.

To sum up: the interests of the organization, not fan pressure, must drive player personnel decisions. That said, Charlie Casserly has proven himself woefully incompetent to make such decisions, but he is at least right in principal here. I'm willing to go on the record today, the Texans will reget the day that they selected CC as their first GM and more importantly they'll reget passing on Vince Young in about 2 years. What's suprising about all of this is that Kubes would go along with keeping David Carr instead of selecting Vince. :redtowel:

HoustonFrog
04-27-2006, 07:26 AM
I am not sure which Gaffney you were watching. I was not able to get him on my television very much, because Carr never threw him the ball. I do remember a few times where Gaffney made outstanding receptions though. He may surprise you this year. Keep an eye on him this season.

You may be right but in my book if a guy is never in the action and is not doing much as a #2 guy then he wasn't worth the #1 pick in the 2nd round when the other guys I pointed out were there. The names I listed weren't surprises and were all considered guys that could play. Especially Bentley and to a lesser extent Gurode for the O-line. If we were going skill I would have gone Portis. I wouldn't call it hindsight because they were good at the time..not a surprise.

BigBull17
04-27-2006, 07:28 AM
Since he is most likely gone after the draft, it makes one wonder why the front office is keeping him around. I think it is because they value his opinion as part of the decision making process.

No I think its because he knows their draft day plan and they dont want him blabing to everyone out of spite.

Caphorn
04-27-2006, 08:47 AM
Teams Carr wouldnt start on . . . [followed by worst list ever as described below]

So here's where you've missed the boat - many of which are gross misses (suggestive that you actually don't watch football):

Green Bay - Carr would start next year hands down over Aaron Rogers. IMO he should be the starter over Farve in a head-to-head right now because they definitely need to develop a new QB (and they are going nowhere with Favre right now)

Atlanta - I agree he might not start but only because of a bad investment by the Falcons in a QB who is rated lower than Carr.

San Diego - Carr starts this year over Rivers. Not a close call.

New York Giants - This is a good competition. Eli has great potential and you are probably right. But his potential did not stop him from collecting a 35 PE rating in the playoffs. Ouch.

Jacksonville Jaguars - I like Leftwhich. But if you think he doesn't have a substantial coaching and talent advantage to work with, you are f'n nuts.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - This is where things get ugly. How in hell can you put Carr under Simms to this point. I'll admit that Gruden did a nice job drafting Simms, but the guy has consistently blown it in big games for his whole career. David has greater upside IMO.

Kansas City Chiefs - Green is old but still slings the ball well admittedly. Again the targets on this team are fantastic, plus you have Larry Johnson back there. I think KC would start Carr over Green if they had him. More upside.

Denver Broncos - No f'n chance Carr doesn't get a shot here. I think Kubiak has said as much himself. The Broncs offense makes Jake look better than average. He's not very good (if you didn't notice that in playoffs).

Baltimore Ravens - are you joking with this? The Ravens have the 2 lowest rated QBs in the league. Not 1, but 2. Kyle Boler is an embarassment for a starter. These guys need to find a way to get a QB. If Carr didn't start there it would simply be a reflection of how little the organization cares about putting together a real offense.

Arizona Cardinals - No f'n chance Carr doesn't start over Warner/McCown. The Cards are rich with targets. They absolutely need a good young QB. Warner is falling apart. McCown has been less effective even with a decided talent advantage to work with.

Chicago Bears - This is beyond comprehension. The Bears lost Grossman - journeman - for most of last year. When he came back, he managed a stellar 54 passer rating in the playoffs :rolleyes:. This from a veteran?

So what is that 11 of your so called 18. I think I'll stand by my original assertion that Carr would likely start for a majority of the teams in the NFL right now.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
04-27-2006, 08:56 AM
:crying: Yes he is a living joke with his glasses all sideways on his face, why is Dan Reeves not our GM..............If this guy is still in charge of our draft again we might win 4 games this year.....:crying:

HoustonFrog
04-27-2006, 09:20 AM
So here's where you've missed the boat - many of which are gross misses (suggestive that you actually don't watch football):

Green Bay - Carr would start next year hands down over Aaron Rogers. IMO he should be the starter over Farve in a head-to-head right now because they definitely need to develop a new QB (and they are going nowhere with Favre right now)

Atlanta - I agree he might not start but only because of a bad investment by the Falcons in a QB who is rated lower than Carr.

San Diego - Carr starts this year over Rivers. Not a close call.

New York Giants - This is a good competition. Eli has great potential and you are probably right. But his potential did not stop him from collecting a 35 PE rating in the playoffs. Ouch.

Jacksonville Jaguars - I like Leftwhich. But if you think he doesn't have a substantial coaching and talent advantage to work with, you are f'n nuts.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - This is where things get ugly. How in hell can you put Carr under Simms to this point. I'll admit that Gruden did a nice job drafting Simms, but the guy has consistently blown it in big games for his whole career. David has greater upside IMO.

Kansas City Chiefs - Green is old but still slings the ball well admittedly. Again the targets on this team are fantastic, plus you have Larry Johnson back there. I think KC would start Carr over Green if they had him. More upside.

Denver Broncos - No f'n chance Carr doesn't get a shot here. I think Kubiak has said as much himself. The Broncs offense makes Jake look better than average. He's not very good (if you didn't notice that in playoffs).

Baltimore Ravens - are you joking with this? The Ravens have the 2 lowest rated QBs in the league. Not 1, but 2. Kyle Boler is an embarassment for a starter. These guys need to find a way to get a QB. If Carr didn't start there it would simply be a reflection of how little the organization cares about putting together a real offense.

Arizona Cardinals - No f'n chance Carr doesn't start over Warner/McCown. The Cards are rich with targets. They absolutely need a good young QB. Warner is falling apart. McCown has been less effective even with a decided talent advantage to work with.

Chicago Bears - This is beyond comprehension. The Bears lost Grossman - journeman - for most of last year. When he came back, he managed a stellar 54 passer rating in the playoffs :rolleyes:. This from a veteran?

So what is that 11 of your so called 18. I think I'll stand by my original assertion that Carr would likely start for a majority of the teams in the NFL right now.

OK, as the Casserly argument above there are some things way off base here IMHO.

GB--You don't know if he would start over Rogers hands down because we haven't seen the guy play yet. With favre back it is a non-issue.

SD--He starts over Rivers, not even close?How can you make that assertion?Rivers is a strong armed guy who has been learning behind Brees for 2 years. He may be the real deal like Palmer who sat for a year. Again, that is a huge assumption.

NYG--Eli and Carr is no competition. Eli went to the playoffs in only his second year and had some huge games last year. He is becoming more and more polished. Carr would be his backup.

Jax--Another excuse

Tampa--Again, you make an assumption about Simms college career when he was in the playoffs last year....noty only that but he performed well in a huge game and had two game winning TD throws dropped. Seems to be doing fine to me. They may have similar skills but this isn't a given

Denver--Jake is Carr with more experience. And he actually took the crappy Cardinals to the playoffs and won before going to Denver. So he has that on Carr.

The other ones you are right on with Chicago being a toss up for me because Grossman has been injured yet has won, even if ugly.

swtbound07
04-27-2006, 10:41 AM
So here's where you've missed the boat - many of which are gross misses (suggestive that you actually don't watch football):



Green Bay - Carr would start next year hands down over Aaron Rogers. IMO he should be the starter over Farve in a head-to-head right now because they definitely need to develop a new QB (and they are going nowhere with Favre right now)

Atlanta - I agree he might not start but only because of a bad investment by the Falcons in a QB who is rated lower than Carr.

San Diego - Carr starts this year over Rivers. Not a close call.

New York Giants - This is a good competition. Eli has great potential and you are probably right. But his potential did not stop him from collecting a 35 PE rating in the playoffs. Ouch.

Jacksonville Jaguars - I like Leftwhich. But if you think he doesn't have a substantial coaching and talent advantage to work with, you are f'n nuts.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - This is where things get ugly. How in hell can you put Carr under Simms to this point. I'll admit that Gruden did a nice job drafting Simms, but the guy has consistently blown it in big games for his whole career. David has greater upside IMO.

Kansas City Chiefs - Green is old but still slings the ball well admittedly. Again the targets on this team are fantastic, plus you have Larry Johnson back there. I think KC would start Carr over Green if they had him. More upside.

Denver Broncos - No f'n chance Carr doesn't get a shot here. I think Kubiak has said as much himself. The Broncs offense makes Jake look better than average. He's not very good (if you didn't notice that in playoffs).

Baltimore Ravens - are you joking with this? The Ravens have the 2 lowest rated QBs in the league. Not 1, but 2. Kyle Boler is an embarassment for a starter. These guys need to find a way to get a QB. If Carr didn't start there it would simply be a reflection of how little the organization cares about putting together a real offense.

Arizona Cardinals - No f'n chance Carr doesn't start over Warner/McCown. The Cards are rich with targets. They absolutely need a good young QB. Warner is falling apart. McCown has been less effective even with a decided talent advantage to work with.

Chicago Bears - This is beyond comprehension. The Bears lost Grossman - journeman - for most of last year. When he came back, he managed a stellar 54 passer rating in the playoffs :rolleyes:. This from a veteran?

So what is that 11 of your so called 18. I think I'll stand by my original assertion that Carr would likely start for a majority of the teams in the NFL right now.


Allright I'll play your petty little game.

Atlanta-Glad you agree with me. Not a single atlanta fan would take carr over Vick.

GB-You said that he would start NEXT YEAR over aaron rodgers. Im talking about now, and Carr wouldnt start over Favre. Period.

San Diego-They let DREW BREES walk because they want to play rivers. Following the train of logic, you are saying carr is better than drew brees and his heir apparent. Not even close. Carr doesnt start over rivers.

New York Giants-Traded away most of 2 drafts for Eli Manning. Carr wouldnt start, manning has gotten them to the playoffs, and they love him there.

Jacksonville Jaguars.=Did we say anything about advantage/disadvantage? Carr wouldnt start over Leftwich, and probably wouldnt beat out garrard for the 2 spot.

Tampa Bay-I live in Florida right now, and to read the amount of stories about Gruden praising Simms is incredible. The team loves him, the coach loves him, and he took the team to the playoffs. If brian griese couldnt start for the bucs over simms, what makes you think david carr could?

Kansas City Chiefs-They would NOT start Carr over Trent Green...you know, the probowler who fits their offense like a glove and puts up amazing passing stats? UPSIDE??? are you freaking kidding me.

Denver Broncos-Lets see, one of the best records in the NFL last year, Plummer is a pro-bowler, yeah, Im not seeing Carr rip that spot from him.

Baltimore I will cede you, I thought they signed Kerry Collins

Arizona-Carr is not Kurt Warner...you know, superbowl winning NFL MVP Kurt Warner...the warner that is keeping mcnown on the bench? Yeah Carr isnt that good

Chicago-Rex Grossman-Journeyman?? WHo else has he journeyed too? The bears won many games with both grossman AND orton. Chicago is set at quarterback.

dwilt72
04-27-2006, 12:51 PM
People really need to quit being sheep and think things through before they form thier opinions.

Casserly has done a good job in the draft WITH THE PICKS HE DIDNT TRADE.

his only mistakes have been trading up. When he actually picked players, he has a nice track record.

keep him from trading picks, and he will get us some starters.

OK...let's don't be sheep. Let's look at his picks and think this through.....

2002:

1.David Carr - Progressed for his first 3 years, but last year took a serious step back. Jury is still out on him.
2a. Jabar Gafney - A decent possession receiver, but never turned out to be a difference maker. Now in Philly.
2b. Chester Pitts - Starting LT. Does a decent job, but probably better suited for G. Still not a bad pick.
3a. Fred Weary - Jury is still out on him. Probably never more than a backup.
3b. Charles Hill - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
4. Jonathan Wells - A nice backup RB and a good football player, but not starting material.
5a. Jarrod Baxter - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
5b. Ramon Walker - A nice backup DB and special teams player, but not worthy of being a starter
6a. Petey Faggins - A nice backup or nickle back, but would not be a starter on many teams in the league (even though he may start for us).
6b. Howard Green - No longer with the team, backup for Saints.
7. Greg White - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.

2003:

1. Andre Johnson - Pro Bowl player in 2004, probably will be again.
2. Bennie Jopru - Do I really need to explain?
3a. Antwan Peek - Starter last year and probable starting DE this year. Jury still out on him. Has a lot of potential, but has not put it all together yet.
3b. Seth Wand - Starting LT in 2004, but has not had much of a chance since then. Jury still out.
3c. Dave Ragone - 3rd team QB.
4. Domanick Davis - Starting RB. Nice player, but a bit injury prone.
6a. Drew Henson - Conned a couple of draft picks from Dallas for him. Probably CC's best trade.
6b. Keith Wright - No longer with the team. Not sure if he's even in the league.
7a. Curry Burns - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
7b. Chance Pearce - No longer with the team.

2004:

1a. Dunta Robinson - Hard hitter. Possible Pro Bowl player in the future.
1b. Jason Babin - Traded 2 picks for him. Has yet to reach his potential.
4. Glenn Earl - Starting SS. Not a bad pick.
6a. Vontez Duff - No longer with the team. Backup for Giants.
6b. Jammal Lord - Has been on practice squad most of his career here. Not sure what kind of player he will end up being.
6c. Charlie Anderson - A nice pass rusher. Will be interesting to see where he fits into the 4-3.
7a. Raheem Orr - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
7b. Sloan Thomas - Could have been a decent backup WR for us, but we let him slip away to the Titans.
7c. B.J. Symons - No longer with the team. Backup for the Bears.

2005:

1. Travis Johnson - Still scratching my head on this one. Hopefully he will be better in 4-3.
3. Vernand Morency - Backup RB. Some people like him, I think he is still a little slow. We'll see how he fits into Kube's system.
4. Jermome Mathis - Pro Bowl kick returner. However, he seems to be turning into a problem child.
5. Drew Hodgdon - Backup C. May end up being a decent lineman when given a chance.
6. C.C. Brown - Starting safety. Probably better suited for backup and special teams, however he is a nice player.
7. Kenneth Pettway - Didn't get many chances last year. No idea what he can do.

So now let's do the math:

36 picks
Only 10 are starters
13 are backups
13 are no longer with the team
6 are no longer in the league.

I would not call this a nice track record.....

Grid
04-27-2006, 03:46 PM
36 picks, 23 are still with the team. Would be more if we hadnt had to bring in a new coaching staff. That strikes me as good. Especially considering that over those 4 years we had 15 picks in the 6th and 7th round.

The Duke
04-27-2006, 04:41 PM
OK...let's don't be sheep. Let's look at his picks and think this through.....

2002:

1.David Carr - Progressed for his first 3 years, but last year took a serious step back. Jury is still out on him.
2a. Jabar Gafney - A decent possession receiver, but never turned out to be a difference maker. Now in Philly.
2b. Chester Pitts - Starting LT. Does a decent job, but probably better suited for G. Still not a bad pick.
3a. Fred Weary - Jury is still out on him. Probably never more than a backup.
3b. Charles Hill - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
4. Jonathan Wells - A nice backup RB and a good football player, but not starting material.
5a. Jarrod Baxter - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
5b. Ramon Walker - A nice backup DB and special teams player, but not worthy of being a starter
6a. Petey Faggins - A nice backup or nickle back, but would not be a starter on many teams in the league (even though he may start for us).
6b. Howard Green - No longer with the team, backup for Saints.
7. Greg White - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.

2003:

1. Andre Johnson - Pro Bowl player in 2004, probably will be again.
2. Bennie Jopru - Do I really need to explain?
3a. Antwan Peek - Starter last year and probable starting DE this year. Jury still out on him. Has a lot of potential, but has not put it all together yet.
3b. Seth Wand - Starting LT in 2004, but has not had much of a chance since then. Jury still out.
3c. Dave Ragone - 3rd team QB.
4. Domanick Davis - Starting RB. Nice player, but a bit injury prone.
6a. Drew Henson - Conned a couple of draft picks from Dallas for him. Probably CC's best trade.
6b. Keith Wright - No longer with the team. Not sure if he's even in the league.
7a. Curry Burns - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
7b. Chance Pearce - No longer with the team.

2004:

1a. Dunta Robinson - Hard hitter. Possible Pro Bowl player in the future.
1b. Jason Babin - Traded 2 picks for him. Has yet to reach his potential.
4. Glenn Earl - Starting SS. Not a bad pick.
6a. Vontez Duff - No longer with the team. Backup for Giants.
6b. Jammal Lord - Has been on practice squad most of his career here. Not sure what kind of player he will end up being.
6c. Charlie Anderson - A nice pass rusher. Will be interesting to see where he fits into the 4-3.
7a. Raheem Orr - No longer with the team. No longer in the league.
7b. Sloan Thomas - Could have been a decent backup WR for us, but we let him slip away to the Titans.
7c. B.J. Symons - No longer with the team. Backup for the Bears.

2005:

1. Travis Johnson - Still scratching my head on this one. Hopefully he will be better in 4-3.
3. Vernand Morency - Backup RB. Some people like him, I think he is still a little slow. We'll see how he fits into Kube's system.
4. Jermome Mathis - Pro Bowl kick returner. However, he seems to be turning into a problem child.
5. Drew Hodgdon - Backup C. May end up being a decent lineman when given a chance.
6. C.C. Brown - Starting safety. Probably better suited for backup and special teams, however he is a nice player.
7. Kenneth Pettway - Didn't get many chances last year. No idea what he can do.

So now let's do the math:

36 picks
Only 10 are starters
13 are backups
13 are no longer with the team
6 are no longer in the league.

I would not call this a nice track record.....

I would have to agree! I don't think this guy knows what it takes or what to look for in a REAL college player.

HE NEEDS TO GO!

Samer
04-28-2006, 06:47 PM
I think Casserly had his good pick and bad picks, but every GM do the same thing, I think that he knows who he wants to pick but doesn't want anyone to know so he confuses us all.