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View Full Version : Win now??????


Smokeaveli88
04-25-2006, 10:10 PM
Now before everyone calls me a vy homer read this everyone is talking about reggie will help us win now im sorry but that will not happen i mean yeah we signed a few good players but we are still 2-3 yrs away from being in the playoffs. With that being said lets draft vince and then continue building this team into what i hope will be a powerhouse franchise in a few years.

Smokeaveli88
04-25-2006, 10:13 PM
is that all you can say

Texizgreat
04-25-2006, 10:15 PM
I will agree that we are not going to the playoffs this next year....but .... if we pick up bush or not out team will be better....4 or 6 wins

I am in the trade down to the jets and pick up D'brick camp

Smokeaveli88
04-25-2006, 10:16 PM
I will agree that we are not going to the playoffs this next year....but .... if we pick up bush or not out team will be better....4 or 6 wins

I am in the trade down to the jets and pick up D'brick camp


Yeah thats good too

TreWardTxn
04-25-2006, 10:47 PM
This is a very logical position to me, but everyone places such a premium on 'win now' in the NFL that people are willing to forego long term gain (potentially 15+ years w/ VY at QB) over short term gain (Bush for 5-7 years, where he is still the fastest guy around).

We've all heard how Kubiak and crew are starting over with Carr, breaking him down, going over the basics like how to get the team in and out the huddle, cadence. Young could easily be ready to go by the team this offense is ready to step into its element. Kubiak knows how to utilize mobile, outside the pocket QBs; he calls frequent bootleg and playaction to cut the reads down to half the field.

I'm not going to get down on Carr, I want to see if he can succeed in this system, I want to see him throwing those laser beams downfield, but I don't want to look up 3-4 years from now and realize what could have been, kinda like how people are doing with Peppers, and seeing Williams as potential #1.

The best thing about a VY pick is that we could possibly trade down and pick up a decent set up picks, it won't be the fleecing we all would want, but they could go towards building a team that can be successful into the next decade...

Bobo
04-25-2006, 11:00 PM
I will agree that we are not going to the playoffs this next year....but .... if we pick up bush or not out team will be better....4 or 6 wins

I am in the trade down to the jets and pick up D'brick camp

You'd be happy with four wins? Didn't Capers get that in the team's inaugural year?

Mike Kerns
04-25-2006, 11:33 PM
You'd be happy with four wins? Didn't Capers get that in the team's inaugural year?
I think it was 3, wasn't it?

Smokeaveli88
04-25-2006, 11:51 PM
sorry what i ment was if we got d,brick i would be happy to

Texizgreat
04-26-2006, 12:27 AM
You'd be happy with four wins? Didn't Capers get that in the team's inaugural year?


Happier than 2

Big B Texan Fan
04-26-2006, 01:35 AM
It is known on these MB's that I want VY but.........
I've accepted the fact that RB is coming.
Hell, I was his personal cheerleader for the last 6 weeks of the NFL season.

But there is something to be said for the thread authors point.

For example, LT has been in the league 5 years and is a great Fantasy guy but has only willed his team to the playoffs once and was a first rd bow-out. That was 2 years ago. I'll gladly eat these words if they become a perrinial playoff contender but right now it seems as though they won't.

Bush will be used similar to the way LT is used. So I guess worst case scenario we'll be in the playoffs for our 1st time in about 4 years.

Double Barrel
04-26-2006, 10:39 AM
With a young franchise that lacks any winning tradition (much less one winning season) in it's history, winning now is a priority.

If we were already a successful franchise, I'd say VY would be a better pick for us. We'd have time to develop his skills and focus him accordingly.

But we don't have time. We cannot afford a few more years to wait for a young QB to mature, and I surely don't want to see a rookie QB thrown to the wolves again.

Whoever they pick with the no. 1, it has to be a player that can make an immediate impact on the field. Be it Bush, Williams, or whoever, we need a playmaker NOW, not tomorrow.

Hookem Horns
04-26-2006, 10:52 AM
With a young franchise that lacks any winning tradition (much less one winning season) in it's history, winning now is a priority.

If we were already a successful franchise, I'd say VY would be a better pick for us. We'd have time to develop his skills and focus him accordingly.

But we don't have time. We cannot afford a few more years to wait for a young QB to mature, and I surely don't want to see a rookie QB thrown to the wolves again.

Whoever they pick with the no. 1, it has to be a player that can make an immediate impact on the field. Be it Bush, Williams, or whoever, we need a playmaker NOW, not tomorrow.

Of course all of this hinges on Carr finally learning how to be successful in the NFL (maturing) in his 4th season. What if Carr continues to produce (or not produce) the way he has in the first 3 seasons? Do we have time to watch him struggle for another season or two before the team finally realizes that they have to go back to the drawing board (or more like drafting board) to address the QB position?

That is my nightmare scenario and if that happens winning won't even be on the horizon. If this scenario plays out and even if Bush becomes a Hall of Famer, we could end up like the Detroit Lions of the early 90's (a team with a great RB and no decent QB that goes nowhere).

BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, this is NOT Bush vs. Young. It is Carr vs. Young or any other QB on the board. If I were sold on Carr I would go with Bush no question. I assume all you Bush people are sold on him.

Hawg
04-26-2006, 11:32 AM
Of course all of this hinges on Carr finally learning how to be successful in the NFL (maturing) in his 4th season. What if Carr continues to produce (or not produce) the way he has in the first 3 seasons? Do we have time to watch him struggle for another season or two before the team finally realizes that they have to go back to the drawing board (or more like drafting board) to address the QB position?

That is my nightmare scenario and if that happens winning won't even be on the horizon. If this scenario plays out and even if Bush becomes a Hall of Famer, we could end up like the Detroit Lions of the early 90's (a team with a great RB and no decent QB that goes nowhere).

BTW, as someone mentioned earlier, this is NOT Bush vs. Young. It is Carr vs. Young or any other QB on the board. If I were sold on Carr I would go with Bush no question. I assume all you Bush people are sold on him.

Im not necessarily sold on David Carr, BUT, I do beleive that Carr has enough upside to be a good quarterback in this league. I think that Kubes will turn him around. As I said I am not sold on Carr, thats what im looking for him to do this season. I think he will make beleivers out of us all in the next two seasons. That is why I believe that Bush is THE PICk. He is a rb with lots of speed and great cuback ability. He has good vision and can stop and start on a dime. Plus you ad Bush to all of our aquisitions of this off seasons.(Moulds, Putzier, Cooke, Walters) Add all of those to who we already have(Davis, Carr, Johnson) And given that Kubiac is able to turn around this o-line we will be extremely tuff to defend,IMHO.

Meloy
04-26-2006, 11:42 AM
I want to build a strong team that is deep at most positions. Like the Cowboys of years gone by. Love em or hate em, you could have a starter go down & the back up left you still in the game with a chance to win. With a good draft this year and next, we could have a pretty good team. I think the Oilers (seven winning seasons) and the Astros under McClain are what I'm talking about.

TexanSam
04-26-2006, 11:44 AM
Now before everyone calls me a vy homer read this everyone is talking about reggie will help us win now im sorry but that will not happen i mean yeah we signed a few good players but we are still 2-3 yrs away from being in the playoffs. With that being said lets draft vince and then continue building this team into what i hope will be a powerhouse franchise in a few years.

Bush will add instant excitablity to this team. And this team still has some of the same talent that went 7-9 in 2004. To go 9-7 or 8-8 this year is not out of the question. I do believe we'll have more than 4, 5, or 6 wins. Our offense is going to be very, very good...as long as our offensive line can protect Carr. I don't think we are 2-3 years from being in the playoffs. We can be in them this year I believe. At the very least, I think we will be contenders for the last wild card spot up until the very end. The Texans don't need a QB. Kubiak has said it (if you read between the lines) and Casserly has all but admitted that the Texans won't be drafting Vince (we're in contract talks with Mario Williams and Reggie Bush, not Vince Young). Running back is not our greatest need either, but look at the system the Denver Broncos ran. They utilized two running backs. Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell each ran for about 1000 yards last season. Domanick Davis and Reggie Bush are so much more talented than either of those two. And yes, the Broncos developed their running backs insteading of drafting them in the first round, but if the Broncos had a chance, they wouldn't pass up on a talent like Reggie Bush either.

Ibar_Harry
04-26-2006, 01:06 PM
We've all heard how Kubiak and crew are starting over with Carr, breaking him down, going over the basics like how to get the team in and out the huddle, cadence. Young could easily be ready to go by the team this offense is ready to step into its element. Kubiak knows how to utilize mobile, outside the pocket QBs; he calls frequent bootleg and playaction to cut the reads down to half the field.

I'm not going to get down on Carr, I want to see if he can succeed in this system, I want to see him throwing those laser beams downfield, but I don't want to look up 3-4 years from now and realize what could have been, kinda like how people are doing with Peppers, and seeing Williams as potential #1.


I've seen this quote several times and I would add that its not unreasonable given what the previous coaching staff taught and wanted Carr to do. I've often stated that a number of the things he was doing was predicated on what the previous coaching staff wanted.

One of the most glaring would be when Carr got to the line from the huddle. Remember, they wanted to kill as much time as possible to win at the end. Everything they did was based on killing the clock. Therefore Carr was to run every second off of the clock before calling a play. That ment breaking the huddle late. Carr really didn't have a long time to adjust the play and they didn't want him to adjust the play.

Kubiak on the other hand wants Carr to get out of the huddle quickly so that he can see how the defense is setting up and adjust accordingly. Can he do that? Well, the one game where they let him do that he did very well. I'm not going to argue with you about that being one game, because that is true. However, I think Kubiak, Sherman, and others have reviewed the films of all of the games and know what was going on. I'm certain Carr has been asked why he was doing certain things and the films probably vindicated a lot of what he told him. That would be a reason why they kept him, because they decided he was taught to do it the wrong way.

I think that in reviewing the films the coaches decided that the WR/TE core left a lot to be desired and weren't running their routes well at all. Do I absolutely know this? NO, but if you look at who they let loose and who they brought in, its pretty obvious how they felt about the receivers. Despite what you think, a receiver can make a QB look bad just as a QB can make a receiver look bad. When the QB is in trouble the receiver is suppose to break his route to come back and help the QB. That seldom happened with the Texans. Part of that was because the defense was on the QB very quickly, but at other times that wasn't the case.

Carr has taken a beating and kept on ticking. I think he has earned the right to be given a fair shot. I think he is a lot better than most of you think. I'm not saying Carr is perfect either, its just that I think he was in an extemely poor situation and can react to the speed of the game better than a new young QB. I think Carr has a lot more upside than you think now that he has some better players around him. DO NOT under estimate what we have done with the offensive part of our game. I'm extemely high on our receiver core and I'm beginning to think our O-line is going to be a very different line under the tuitoring of Sherman. That could be the biggest surprise of all.

As many of you know I have been extremely pessimistic in the past and particularly last year. This year I'm very much in the opposite camp. I believe this year we do have a shot at making the playoffs. From there who knows, but right now I see no reason why we won't be capable of playing anybody this year and beating them. Yes, that includes INDY. The changes made are not trivial, particularly in the coaching ranks. Yes, coaching is a big factor in the NFL. Far more than a lot of people want to think.

We went out and hired a new young coach who looks like he's going to be one of the elite. Time will tell, but I'm very encouraged by what I'm seeing. There is just something about him that smells of success. There are a few NFL coaches who are always winners, year in and year out. I think Kubiak is going to be one of those guys.

Texas
04-26-2006, 01:37 PM
Yea I agree...we wont make the playoffs this year. I would however be happy with a 7-9 season...I disagree with you about bush. If we draft him our team will be better...Really anyone we draft will make our team most likely better because we have the #1 pick. I'd rather us get Mario Williams but bush would not be bad either.

TreWardTxn
04-26-2006, 01:37 PM
With a young franchise that lacks any winning tradition (much less one winning season) in it's history, winning now is a priority.

If we were already a successful franchise, I'd say VY would be a better pick for us. We'd have time to develop his skills and focus him accordingly.

But we don't have time. We cannot afford a few more years to wait for a young QB to mature, and I surely don't want to see a rookie QB thrown to the wolves again.

Whoever they pick with the no. 1, it has to be a player that can make an immediate impact on the field. Be it Bush, Williams, or whoever, we need a playmaker NOW, not tomorrow.

I think this the way a lot of people feel about the draft debate and I think it misses the big picture. I think most people will agree that, even in today's NFL, a winning tradition can not be built overnight. If "established" teams were the only ones with the luxury of being able to allow a QB to develop their talents, then they would always be the teams with the best QBs. I see it the other way, Bush would be best for a team that is on the doorstep of winning a championship, and he would give them the added dimension to get there. That is the general consensus about running backs (even ones that can catch well), they are pieces, not foundations.

Why everybody say 'win win win' NOW, when everyone knows we will be perfectly satisfied with anything from a 5-8 win season, no one realistically expects more. Allow the foundation to be put in place and then build the pieces around it so that in a few years the Texans can be a mainstay in the playoffs, not just a year here and there.

Are people afraid that the Texans will be disbanded or something? The team just got here, it's not going anywhere. Everyone talks about being real fans and being here through thick and thin, so the fan base will be fine. Look at the Bengals, after a decade of losing, one mediocre, and a playoff season has everyone back in the seats. I know Bush will have that affect to see if something spectacular happens, but if it doesn't mean wins, no one will care...

Double Barrel
04-26-2006, 03:01 PM
Good points.

But the thing is that coaches only have a finite amount of time to work their magic. If we go through another 3-4 years of winless seasons, our boy Kubiak will be shown the door and we lather, repeat, and rinse (once again!). It's a viscous cycle.

That's all I'm saying. VY looks to have the potential to be an elite QB, but that development takes time. I'm just not sure this franchise (or at least our current coaching staff) has that kind of time to work with Young.

so yeah, it does put even more pressure on Carr to succeed. If he's up to the challenge, only time will tell. I'm honestly split 50/50 about my feelings, because I can see it going either way.

I'm with the Texans through thick and thin. But, I know how fickle Houston fans can be, and we need a winning season sooner than later. I'm really scared about the 2007 season, because it is the first year that does not have guaranteed sellouts to avoid the dreaded blackout. This year will really have an impact either way, good or bad.

Runner
04-26-2006, 03:17 PM
I'm with the Texans through thick and thin. But, I know how fickle Houston fans can be, and we need a winning season sooner than later. I'm really scared about the 2007 season, because it is the first year that does not have guaranteed sellouts to avoid the dreaded blackout. This year will really have an impact either way, good or bad.

I think the Texans fans would do well to use some of this much advertised patience on some of the young players we have who have been slow to develop because of coaching, the poor system, and on-field injuries (mainly Joppru on that one). Realistically, most fans only have patience for their favorites, which is human nature.

Many have been too quick to call players "busts" for reasons beyond their control. I think this season will show that.

Grid
04-26-2006, 03:19 PM
We have alot of young talent on this team that is going to be completely wasted if we dont take a "win now" attitude.

Draft Vince.. and wait the 3 years it takes for him to be starter material.. and our best players are gonna be just a few years from retiring.. those that are left anyway. Alot of them will probably leave when thier contract is up because we arent interested in "winning now".