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View Full Version : An honest question about bush??


swtbound07
04-24-2006, 05:47 PM
Here is my only point. Okay, for the sake of arguement lets say that bush is a perfect fit for denvers running scheme. he puts up a fantastically dynamite year. Why wouldnt we continue the "denver pattern" and trade him away for somebody else and then get another back. Clinton portis was a stud, they traded him for a CB. Reuben Droughns was a beast, now he is a cleveland brown...i think everybody assumes we would keep Bush for a while...but history has shown that not to be the case. Do you want bush, even if its only for a couple of years?

NederlandTexan
04-24-2006, 05:56 PM
Yea, if we could strike deal like the Broncos did. Established back for possibly the piece that takes us to the Super Bowl.

Mike Kerns
04-24-2006, 05:59 PM
I think if he comes in and has Earl Campbell like results, there is no way they would tear him away from the fans & the city. He would be way too popular. Just because we are going to adopt the "Denver Offense" does not mean we will make ANYONE a 1000 yard back. Having Denvers Offensive Line is a big part of that.

TreWardTxn
04-24-2006, 06:08 PM
Hopefully we won't have as dire a need for CB as the Broncos did. Bush will (hopefully) be of much more use to this club than Portis was to Denver. Portis couldn't do much more than make a defense stack the box, any good TB can do that. Bush could rearrange defensive alignments and personnel packages if teams add a nickel back to compensate for his speed. His ability to be a downfield receiver makes him more valuable than Portis could have been.

Personally, I am of the opinion that running backs run and receivers catch passes, but if a guy can possibly do both, then why hold him back...

Mike Kerns
04-24-2006, 06:10 PM
Also, I think that down the road, Domanick Davis would be moved before Bush.

Texans86
04-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Personally, I am of the opinion that running backs run and receivers catch passes, but if a guy can possibly do both, then why hold him back...

They call him D.Davis. You should check him out sometime.

Oh yeah, I consider three 1500 yard seasons helping the team. That's not chump change.

TreWardTxn
04-24-2006, 06:18 PM
Tell me one time Davis caught a pass more than 5 yards downfield...

That's why you would pick up Bush, because he is not a pure running back, therefore, he can supplement Davis' production, who needs plays off. Then you can put Davis and Bush on the field at once. Think you might like to check that out some time...

Mike Kerns
04-24-2006, 06:21 PM
Tell me one time Davis caught a pass more than 5 yards downfield...

That's why you would pick up Bush, because he is not a pure running back, therefore, he can supplement Davis' production, who needs plays off. Then you can put Davis and Bush on the field at once. Think you might like to check that out some time...
I second that notion. On todays 2 hour Draft Special (Which was about 80% Reggie talk) on ESPN, they were talking about what an offense with BOTH Davis & Bush in the backfield would be like:drool:

MorKnolle
04-24-2006, 11:08 PM
Tell me one time Davis caught a pass more than 5 yards downfield...

That's why you would pick up Bush, because he is not a pure running back, therefore, he can supplement Davis' production, who needs plays off. Then you can put Davis and Bush on the field at once. Think you might like to check that out some time...

He did catch one this year on a TD of like 28-33 yards in the 1st half aganist the Rams, that's the only one that comes to mind.

texplayer2
04-24-2006, 11:46 PM
Same system Maybe, but different Head Coach and Owner. Who says Kubiak will blindy follow a pattern Denver has used or that McNair will let him? Denver has been successful buy playing the Cards it was dealt and getting a few aces along the way.

Tejaspro
04-25-2006, 12:16 AM
I second that notion. On todays 2 hour Draft Special (Which was about 80% Reggie talk) on ESPN, they were talking about what an offense with BOTH Davis & Bush in the backfield would be like:drool:


I'm sorry I missed it. What did they say it would be like? Or was it a rhetorical question?:confused:

MorKnolle
04-25-2006, 12:30 AM
Same system Maybe, but different Head Coach and Owner. Who says Kubiak will blindy follow a pattern Denver has used or that McNair will let him? Denver has been successful buy playing the Cards it was dealt and getting a few aces along the way.

Over the last 11 years (since Shanahan/Kubiak have been in charge in Denver) they have the #1 overall offense in terms of total yards and total points scored, why would he not duplicate that system here? We had a relatively similar system last year (at least an attempt at one), we have personnel that should fit the system fairly well, it is the system Kubiak knows and has obviously executed with great success, why would Bob McNair bring him in here to turn his team around and not let him run what he knows best?

texplayer2
04-25-2006, 12:38 AM
Over the last 11 years (since Shanahan/Kubiak have been in charge in Denver) they have the #1 overall offense in terms of total yards and total points scored, why would he not duplicate that system here? We had a relatively similar system last year (at least an attempt at one), we have personnel that should fit the system fairly well, it is the system Kubiak knows and has obviously executed with great success, why would Bob McNair bring him in here to turn his team around and not let him run what he knows best?

I was referring to the draft more than the system. Them drafting running backs in later rnds. and then shipping them off, might have come from them not having high first rnd picks, not intentionally waiting. Later rnd picks would also be easier to part with on the money side of the equation. He might come in and run the exact same plays, but he might plug a first rnder in his backfield and be able to do even more.

MorKnolle
04-25-2006, 12:42 AM
I was referring to the draft more than the system. Them drafting running backs in later rnds. and then shipping them off, might have come from them not having high first rnd picks, not intentionally waiting. Later rnd picks would also be easier to part with on the money side of the equation. He might come in and run the exact same plays, but he might plug a first rnder in his backfield and be able to do even more.

Gotcha, that is a bit different of a question, but I think/hope McNair will give Kubiak the reigns on this and allow him to build a team that he is comfortable/familiar with rather than stepping in and overruling him on such issues. I think if Kubiak really believes in a certain system or drafting certain players that McNair will trust him and let him and Casserly figure out such things, but that remains to be seen in 4.5 days.

Mike Kerns
04-25-2006, 01:01 AM
I'm sorry I missed it. What did they say it would be like? Or was it a rhetorical question?:confused:
Dont remember exactly, but it was something about how good of a receiver out of the backfield both of them are.

TreWardTxn
04-25-2006, 01:45 AM
Tell me one time Davis caught a pass more than 5 yards downfield...

That's why you would pick up Bush, because he is not a pure running back, therefore, he can supplement Davis' production, who needs plays off. Then you can put Davis and Bush on the field at once.

I think that was the comment. I know somebody mentioned a Davis catch in one game that went for about 30 yards, but I was asking for instance which he actually caught the ball more than 5 yards from the LOS, not YAC he gained...

Texans86
04-25-2006, 01:50 AM
I think that was the comment. I know somebody mentioned a Davis catch in one game that went for about 30 yards, but I was asking for instance which he actually caught the ball more than 5 yards from the LOS, not YAC he gained...

I'm curious why that matters. If someone catches the ball 4 yards from the LOS and runs another 36 yards, or if someone catches the ball 40 yards downfield and gets hit immediately, isnt't that the same amount of yards. The running back shouldn't be used to stretch the middle of the field; he will get leveled by linebackers and hard hitting safeties. That's the job of a good TE, which we haven't had yet.

If Putzier or Joppru can stretch the middle of the field, teams better watch out for DD's running totals. They will skyrocket. He got nearly 1000 yards in three consecutive years with eight guys in the box. He has some great untapped potential as well as the rest of the offense.

TreWardTxn
04-25-2006, 01:58 AM
Well it wouldn't make a difference if running back #1 ran for 36 yards er'y time, but that's usually not the case. Both guys are threats for YAC, and if one guy can catch it 15-20-40 yards down the field and then be a threat to go yard, he is substantially better than the guy who is only useful for screen passes. And I don't think you can ever have too many players able to stretch the field. If your fullback could do it, you would hope the front 5 could hold their blocks so he could run a route. I wouldn't recomment running Bush across the middle at any time, but if the MLB blitz and Bush makes the hot read over the middle, that could be deadly...

Texans86
04-25-2006, 02:10 AM
I would hate to see Bush try and catch one over the middle. I can see his 200 lbs. getting leveled. I remember watching a Monday Night game where Keyshawn Johnson got his helmet knocked off, it wasn't pretty. Some of those safties are lethal on smaller guys.

whiskeyrbl
04-25-2006, 02:31 AM
Bush and Davis would be a lethal combo.This was mentioned on ESPN yesterday. You figure a nickel or dime defense.... No LB's........ HMMMMMMM run the ball but which one. Man just having them 2 in the backfield together with AJ, Moulds, and Putzier, defenses are gonna have trouble. Imagine if you will a lil' bit of pass protection and those weapons.Seriously think about it.WHO do you cover.I am so ready to see this lineup I cannot wait till September gets here if it goes down with Bush at #1. Get ready for some serious offense.Man come on Saturday!!!! I'm gonna have a crawfish boil and about 3 cases of beer on Ice to celebrate.Yea a couple of friends coming to help celebrate,You have to love the idea of the possibilities that can be.:redtowel:

texasguy346
04-25-2006, 09:08 AM
The problem with your logic is that you're using the actions of one franchise to predict the actions of another franchise. This seems to happen alot lately on the board. People feel that since we have Kubiak then we will be doing things the same way Denver does. I think that's faulty logic. Kubiak likely didn't pull the trigger on the Portis deal, Shannahan is the more likely culprit since he is the HC/GM. Denver also picked up nearly the entire Browns defensive line. Does that mean that the Texans will be looking to pick up some teams entire D-Line? Of course not.

However, if you still think it's reasonable to use the moves of one team to predict the moves of another then at least keep those moves in perspective. For instance, if you try to use the Portis trade to figure out what will happen to Bush then you also need to look at how Denver dealt with Terrell Davis. He spent his entire career with Denver. Why did Denver decide to keep him around, but not decide to keep Portis around? Could it be that Denver felt that TD was truly a great RB while Portis was just an average RB aided by their system? If that's the case it would seem like Kubiak would have to decide whether or not Bush is a truly great RB or just an average RB who is aided by the ZBS. In either case his play on the field would be the determining factor. Not what Denver did.

So let's try and apply both TD & Portis' situations with Denver to Bush's situation with Houston in order to forsee what fate will befall him then we're led to believe he'll be dealt after a couple great season or he'll spend his entire career here in Houston & lead us to back to back Super Bowl championships.

See how shaky logic leads to shaky conclusions?

MorKnolle
04-25-2006, 10:25 PM
I think that was the comment. I know somebody mentioned a Davis catch in one game that went for about 30 yards, but I was asking for instance which he actually caught the ball more than 5 yards from the LOS, not YAC he gained...

FYI that catch I mentioned was downfield and maybe 5 YAC on the end of it.