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battlered
04-24-2006, 04:42 PM
I AUTOMATICALLY give Carr 2 years grace. 1 year for all the players including Carr to gel together and learn the new system... so we might lose a majority of our games at the beginning of the season. And the 2nd season Carr & Company should be able to perfect the new offensive/defensive schemes.

--***takes more than spring training/preseason/and a couple reg. season games...
to break bad habits, and gel with each other/ and w/ coaches
-communicate well with each other
-knowing each others playing style
-and adjusting to new positions (ultimately Babin/Peek will essentially be rookies this year moving to the DE spot and playing w/ a 3point stance)
-Pbuc might do well in the new defensive system, and hopefully opposing backs won't make it all the way through our defense to where it's DO or DIE on PBucs tackling.
- Oline is the biggest ? i have, this years success will depend heavily on how well they protect Carr! I would still say Carr will be one of the top 5 QB's sacked, and will Be one of the top 5 Qb's for rushing yards, behind Vick, McNabb, Culpepper, V. Young.
-i want our safeties to be better at pass coverage than run defense b/c we have LB's and D-Line that should and are getting paid to stop the run more so than the pass, where we only have our shakey DB corps, and Safeties need to be able to read, react, and help our DB's w/ consistency

*** i wouldn't be suprised if Carr's interception might be at his highest, but his yards should also increase, or just think plummer #'s w/ his 1st season w/ the broncos.

i would say team leaders in receiving yrds. will be in this order
1. Johnson/Moulds -one will benefit from this
2. Putzier - remember when we had B. Miller, and with all the pressure carr will more than likely still face Putzier will be his best friend
3. Johnson/Moulds -whoever plays better as the decoy
4. Bush - he might just be the 3rd leading receiver depending on how well we use him/ and how much Carr trusts his hands

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some would say well draft Young and give him 2yrs grace and he'll perform better.
--------I wouldn't argue, but i would argue that we already have a 1st pick/round in David Carr, i don't want to waste another 1st pick in the draft on a QB and have the best defensive player to come out since julius peppers to be drafted 2nd after us.
-------DEJA VU?
Sure. inaugurational season we drafted Carr and then. highly rated Peppers was the best defensive player and was taken w/ the 2nd pick after us.
and carr has underperformed and peppers, well he became the player everyone is compared too when talked about being the best DE.
... and sure enough Mario Williams is, well rated the next best DE since J. Pep and again a player w/ this high of prospect is in the draft when we have the first pick, and can pick him to make up for not picking J. Pep, and get the results J.Pep has been putting up.
Now if we draft Young who has a higher chance of being a bust(depending on how high you are on him compared to what his statistics are in the NFL.)
and Mario Williams does turn out to be the next if not greater than J. Pep, well then we were DOOPED once again. for making the same mistake twice by drafting a qb with the first pick, and passing up the NEXT best DE to be taken w/ the next pick. only this time we'll be stuck w/ 2 1st pick qb's

-- it's a sign! we have to pick Mario Williams for we have the 1st pick!
Bush is great, i won't be mad w/ that at all, i would still be happy, but if we draft young(which im pretty sure won't happen) will just be a waste of a pick to me.

---im either for Mario Williams or Reggie Bush
D'brick if we trade down and neither super mario/ 619bush are their for the taking.

I'm not having high expectations for this season.
-again new coaching staff
-new schemes
-time to adjust to new schemes-to a cognitive level
-new players

swtbound07
04-24-2006, 05:05 PM
so your giving carr a 6 year cushion on his career? At this rate he will be retired before you decide if he has a future or not.

RTP2110
04-24-2006, 05:10 PM
so your giving carr a 6 year cushion on his career? At this rate he will be retired before you decide if he has a future or not.

At this rate, he will have retired before the Texans have given him any decent chance at success. Hopefully that changes this season.

Grid
04-24-2006, 05:24 PM
Im giving him next season to show improvement. After that I will be questioning him a bit more, but I imagine that even if he looks "eh" next year..ill probably still be open to seeing him starting in '08.. cause he will be learning a new system next year.

I dont really WANT to give him 2 years..cause as people have said..that means he has been in the league 6 years, and by that time you expect a QB to be established and to have reached his potential. But I may not have any choice but to give him 2 more years. Its just the logical thing to do.

Double Barrel
04-24-2006, 05:33 PM
Carr has got the 2006 season to shape up or ship out for most Texans fans.

If he continues the trend that has been established in his first four seasons, I'd expect a QB change by the 2007 season.

However, if he shows improvement in areas that he can control (ie. pocket presence, throwing the ball away to avoid sacks, hitting WRs in stride, etc.), then I'd expect the coaching staff to keep beleiving in his potential.

Regardless of how the team does this season, I expect our QB to look like a new man. Another 50+ sack season and I think it would be best for everyone involved if he found himself on another team. Only time will tell, though.

swtbound07
04-24-2006, 05:36 PM
Carr had the 05 season for me.....im tired of waiting to see. If only detroit fans were as patient with joey harrington..

Caphorn
04-24-2006, 05:44 PM
If he doesn't shape up and have a GREAT year (and pull this team up to playoff contention) . . . and Brady Quinn is on the board . . . then bye bye David. His feet should be held officially to the fire this year. No reason to coddle the guy at all. There's alot to get used to I'm sure with the new coaching staff, but he's had plenty of time to get his feet wet.

Goatcheese
04-24-2006, 05:56 PM
Carr has put alot of work into learning the new system, and I think we could see immediate success. Kubiak cut Plummers ints down from 20 to 7 his first year in the system(although in 5 fewer games), and Carr already knows how to make good dicisions. The biggest problem is protection and I believe coaching and healthy starters could shave 30 sacks off last years total. Being less predictable will help alot too. We should be able to see if Carr has what it takes by the end of 2006, and will know if we need a QB by the time draft day comes around.

Other than the O-line(more specifically LT) my biggest worry is our pass defense. We need a starting FS and could use an upgrade at SS if we're going to stop the deep pass and allow our corners to be agressive. Brown gave up alot of big plays when he was out of position(understandable for a rookie) and probably cut 5 years off D-Robs life just from hypertension. Second to Safetys has to be outside linerbacker where we are set to start Morlon 50/50 Greenwood and possibly Orr. A long way from inspiring. I would love to get Hawk in here and another linebacker in the 3rd or 4th round, Spencer Havner and James Anderson spring to mind. I'm torn on supporting Buchanon. He has all the talent in the world but needs to play up to it. I could see us passing on a corner and giving him one more chance.

Williams stock isn't affected by us passing on Peppers. He's either worth the pick or he isn't. Alot of people are beginning to believe he is.

I have very high hopes for this season:
-New coaches
-Competent coaches
-A scheme that doesn't make you say W..T..F....?
-New attitude
-Players in their natural positions
-Did I mention new and competent coaches? :)

:texflag: :fans: :wherewill

aj.
04-24-2006, 06:08 PM
A journey through the life of a Texans fan, Act I, Scene I:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/aj_texans/Pc040109-5.jpg

aj.
04-24-2006, 06:22 PM
A journey through the life of a Texans fan, Final Episode:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/aj_texans/RAY20TOOTHLESS.jpg

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-24-2006, 06:27 PM
Why stop at 2 years? Make it another four!


:party:

the wonger need food
04-24-2006, 08:50 PM
2 more years???

Where was all of this patience back in the 80's and 90's? I see the apologists working here... Carr has as much potential as Oliver Luck or Cody Carlson he just needs more time, different coaches and more money to showcase it. As long as GQ wants him to pose for their magazine we should forgive his mediocrity and find others to blame for his failures. If we hold on long enough maybe we'll see him lead this team another 300-yard passing game. Or more wins than losses in a season.

swtbound07
04-24-2006, 08:53 PM
AJ your on my list buddy, the list of people I will call out after Carr does well next year.:cool:

put me on it with an exclamation point.

OzzO
04-24-2006, 09:08 PM
A well thought out post Battlered to be responded to (mostly) with sarcastic rebuttals. When I first read your post, I was thinking that this will start some intelligent conversation on the boards, but then it went through the same 'ol "discussions" of... haven't seen it yet, why give him more years?

Ah well. My input - I agree to keep Carr another year. If an "apologist" so be it, but to have the staff previously in place and promises not kept to improve the line year after year, less than adequate recievers (in amount of targets and individually as well - save AJ), "square" players placed into "round" positions for a "hey, let's try this" and McNair's hands off approach to his new business as "he hasn't been in the NFL as long" as other unmentionables....

... yeah, I think Carr gets at least another year. If not for all the other reasons, for what I've seen mentioned on the MB's and articles about other coaches, scouts, GM's, whatever, noting the Carr is a good QB.

Agree with DB's above post (seem to agree with alot he posts) that it's defintely a "put up" year for Carr - need to see the steps to improvement to result in him getting another season after this with the Texans. A great guy, but like others on this board - it's what's best for the Texans first - and everyone has their own opinion as to what's best. Here's hoping the new staff knows that answer for the draft and upcoming season and the fans turn their frustrations away from each other and towards the opposing teams in our Bullpen. (group hug later)

Battleread - I think you just summed up nicely what I've been wondering for a while. I think I'd be happy with either Reggie or Mario for our first pick (1st overall or otherwise). Both will be a step up from what we currently have and at least would be contributing to the team in a positive direction.

Good post.

aj.
04-24-2006, 09:33 PM
AJ your on my list buddy, the list of people I will call out after Carr does well next year.:cool:

...and I hope like hell you can call me on it...

TwinSisters
04-24-2006, 09:52 PM
I AUTOMATICALLY give Carr 2 years grace. 1 year for all the players including Carr to gel together and learn the new system... so we might lose a majority of our games at the beginning of the season. And the 2nd season Carr & Company should be able to perfect the new offensive/defensive schemes.


I am not going to give him two. ( that's where I am leaning now )

The reason is the money... if we are paying him the most money, he should be the best player on the team. A poor defense should inflate his stats not deflate them. Reason being he will spend more time/ get more plays on the field/ have to throw the ball more to catch up.

He's not a rookie anymore, he should be able to adjust with the new coach and 'flame-on' without the training wheels.

thunderkyss
04-24-2006, 09:53 PM
Carr has put alot of work into learning the new system, and I think we could see immediate success. Kubiak cut Plummers ints down from 20 to 7 his first year in the system(although in 5 fewer games), and Carr already knows how to make good dicisions. The biggest problem is protection and I believe coaching and healthy starters could shave 30 sacks off last years total. Being less predictable will help alot too. We should be able to see if Carr has what it takes by the end of 2006, and will know if we need a QB by the time draft day comes around.


Bingo........

David's has all the tools... and he's no dummy. We've got two speedy #1 recievers, a WR/TE, pass catching FB & HB.. and a run game that should keep defenses honest(regardless who we draft).

It may be optomistic to believe the OL coaching alone will drop the sack count by 30, but add a little QB coaching, and it should be totally believable.

I refuse to coddle David anymore..... he's a big boy, and he's got plenty of experience. He's never had a problem with INTs, and we know he can operate an offense against bad-to-mediocre defenses. With the Talent he has around him, we shouldn't expect anything less than probowl production. We've made it clear(I think) that he is the leader of this team, now he has to act like it.

He's got to show that he can pick up and beat a blitz. Or at least not take a sack... throw it at the feet of a reciever, over his head, into the stands, get outside the tackle, and hit their mascot.

IF he makes a bad play, he has to bounce back, if he gets booed(It won't be me) he has to perform regardless.

And regardless(irregardless) what you think, I don't think Carr is anything like Jake Plummer. To me, Jake is more in the vein of Brett Farve... Carr, is more like Archie/Peyton Manning....... Dan Marino...... I think Carr is more of a true Quarterback. I think Carr is potentially better than Jake can ever hope to be.

I expect the Houston Texans to avg in the high 20s in points..... 26 ppg, 28 ppg, 30 ppg. I expect him to have close to 4000 yards, if not more. I expect David to keep defenses honest, by beating the blitz, and avoiding sacks... Only the very best teams should ruffle his feathers...

But I wouldn't run him out of town, if he doesn't hit these marks.... I wouldn't run him out of town, if we fail to win 5 games.

But if he's got less than 2800 yards passing, if we have a game won, and he throws an interception late in the game, that costs us the game(more than once). If he has more than 10 sacks accountable to him.... he runs the wrong way.... he falls down, and waits for someone to jump on him..... That's pretty much it... as long as he doesn't do any of these, I won't consider him a failure...... a bust.

What's funny though...... Most of these Carr loyalist will not afford the same excuses, the same leeway to the most productive back we've had since the inception of the franchise...... and it's not like we haven't tried.. DD was supposed to be a backup........

they won't afford these excuses to any of the FA we've brought in in the past. Regardless if they were drafted in the same spots as the player they want to draft in 2006. Steve Mckinney, Victor Riley, PBuch(even after cursing our pass rush).

Our very own draft picks Milford Brown, Fred Weary, .......... no leeway....... Seth Wand.. none whatsoever.


But our quarterback get's a six year grace period.

NederlandTexan
04-24-2006, 10:03 PM
I've made the excuse in the past, that coaching has been the biggest problem with this team. But, Carr has to shoulder some of the blame as well. He improves this year, and early, or the "DUMP CARR" threads will out number the Bush/Young posts.

thunderkyss
04-24-2006, 10:47 PM
put me on it with an exclamation point.
you don't want to be on this list...... chances are better than great, that Carr will have a good year........ the details may be a little sketchy.... just like in 2004, he had a good year, but he still had problems he needed to address. His appologist argued at the time, and will argue in the future.

But it's 2007, that you have to worry about Carr's performance.........

Ah well. My input - I agree to keep Carr another year. If an "apologist" so be it, but to have the staff previously in place and promises not kept to improve the line year after year, less than adequate recievers (in amount of targets and individually as well - save AJ), "square" players placed into "round" positions for a "hey, let's try this" and McNair's hands off approach to his new business as "he hasn't been in the NFL as long" as other unmentionables....
What do you expect them to do?? Bring in Free agents to shore up our line?? Someone like Victor Riley or Steve Mckinney, who started a majority of the games they played for their old team....
Or you could expect them to draft someone, anyone right?? Milford Brown, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary in 2002, Seth Wand & Chance Pearce in 2003, Drew Hogdon in 2005. Pitts, Weary, and Wand all 3rd round and above........ Milford Brown, will probably be starting on another team in 2006.

What exactly is it that you wanted them to do??

... yeah, I think Carr gets at least another year. If not for all the other reasons, for what I've seen mentioned on the MB's and articles about other coaches, scouts, GM's, whatever, noting the Carr is a good QB.
They are saying Carr has the potential to be good, the potential to be great...... much the same way you would say about Matt Lienart, or Brodie Croyle...... except David has a 4 year headstart on them.

Agree with DB's above post (seem to agree with alot he posts) that it's defintely a "put up" year for Carr - need to see the steps to improvement to result in him getting another season after this with the Texans. A great guy, but like others on this board - it's what's best for the Texans first - and everyone has their own opinion as to what's best. Here's hoping the new staff knows that answer for the draft and upcoming season and the fans turn their frustrations away from each other and towards the opposing teams in our Bullpen. (group hug later)
So you must feel that it is a possibility, however slight it is in your mind, that David will need replacing Next year........ it sure would be nice, if we had someone who has the potential to be an elite QB on the team to learn the system at the same time as Carr...... so theoretically, we wouldn't miss a beat in 2007.

Battleread - I think you just summed up nicely what I've been wondering for a while. I think I'd be happy with either Reggie or Mario for our first pick (1st overall or otherwise). Both will be a step up from what we currently have and at least would be contributing to the team in a positive direction.

Good post.
how do you know?? If I were to say Vince would be a step up from what we have, what would you say?? That he hasn't played a down?? that NFL Defenses are faster?? that he can't read a defense?? But everything we have seen about David to date, suggests, that NFL defenses are too fast for him... that he can't read a defense.....

How well is DD going to do with Kubiak calling the shots?? How do you know Morency isn't the next Terrell Davis?? How do you know how Babin and Peek are going to do in a 4-3?? Weaver?? How well is Kalu going to play next to Travis Johnson, Robaire Smith, or Seth Payne?? How do you know??

Napa Auto Parts
04-24-2006, 10:51 PM
We cant give carr only two years im for a full pledge 4 to 5 years and if he still plays like the mediocre QB he is i say we bring in another Coaching staff and we give him another 4 to 5 years cant anybody see its the coaching and not Carr so basiclly we bring in aq new coaching staff eveyr 4 to 5 years and we give carr another shot everytime.:stirpot: been a while since i posted like a full blooded david carr :homer:

aj.
04-25-2006, 07:31 AM
Then quit kicking a man when he is down. That goes for a lot of people around here....

Um....I was poking a fun at the "grace" situation, playing off some earlier comments in the thread about the QB who I hope like hell will be able to lead us back to respectability.

I'm kicking us while we are down. Ever heard of satire?

Since you're telling me and a lot of people around here how to act, I'll remind you of your option not to read what (we) post. I'd also suggest that you develop a little thicker skin, get a sense of humor, and not be so defensive and take everything so personal over every little comment that involves your..... 'buddy.'

As far as criticism of the QB, like it or not, you'll hear it until he wins. It comes with the territory of a multi-millionaire NFL QB, and it doesn't mean we all hate the guy or want him to fail. At least I don't. This isn't Fresno any more, Dorothy.

OzzO
04-25-2006, 08:59 AM
Thunderkyss, you're not gonna get a rise outta me. Not sure if your attacking or merely asking. Let's go with the latter.

You started with my quote and went into the Oline asking what woulkd I want them to do. Well, I would want them to get the players possible within the Texans scheme (which not sure what the former coaches scheme really was) and play them in their natural position. Especially if one of their top goals was to give Carr better protection.

Yep, I do think it's possible that Carr will need replacing. However, it's also possible he may not. While I agree that it would be nice to have an elite QB waiting in the wings, it may also cause an issue the first incomplete pass or 4 and out series we have - possibly in the preseason, and would the complaints of the fans after that cause the team to lose focus?

How do I know Reggie and Mario will be a step up? 100% - I don't, but I've heard they have a low risk factor as opposed to Vince who (so I've heard) and high risk - but also a high reward.... and I'm not sure if a team should swing that on a 1st pick. Minimize the losses and such. If you say Vince is a step up, well - you're entitled to your opinion

As for those other questions of "how do I know" - I don't, that's what we're gonna see play out this season.

kbourda
04-25-2006, 10:22 AM
Then quit kicking a man when he is down.

Can you think of any better time? :stirpot:

kbourda
04-25-2006, 10:39 AM
That was cute, what ever makes you feel better, a lot of people agree with me.

Would those people that agree with you happen to live in Santa Cruz?:)

SESupergenius
04-25-2006, 10:46 AM
That is the amount of time I am giving Carr as well, 2 years. If we don't see a change in his development next year then we should at least draft a QB next year. We still have offensive line problems and and a change in systems isn't going to impact at all that much, in fact weren't we using Denvers scheme the last 2 years anyways??? It's time to pull the plug on the hype of some players and get down to doing what is right for the team.

the wonger need food
04-25-2006, 10:52 AM
Would those people that agree with you happen to live in Santa Cruz?:)

Probably. No Cals, Lo Cals, Fresnecks... there are a lot of Carr apologists on the left coast.

kbourda
04-25-2006, 10:58 AM
Probably. No Cals, Lo Cals, Fresnecks... there are a lot of Carr apologists on the left coast.

Honestly, I hope Carr has a great career. I really do. But I just can't see what people see in him.

Double Barrel
04-25-2006, 10:59 AM
Nobodys talking to you bro.

When you leave messages on a public internet forum, you are talking to everyone. If you want/need to address aj in private, we've got a great PM system for that purpose. :ok:

Until then, I think your comments can be addressed by anyone that wishes to respond.

And don't be so sensitive. Even you have to admit that David Carr has to put up or shut up at some point in his career. It can't be the coaches and other players' faults forever.

swtbound07
04-25-2006, 11:01 AM
Honestly, I hope Carr has a great career. I really do. But I just can't see what people see in him.

Myself either....Hulk seems a bit touchy...i'd be touchy too if i supported a massive bust.

HomeBred_Texan
04-25-2006, 11:11 AM
Myself either....Hulk seems a bit touchy...i'd be touchy too if i supported a massive bust.
But we do not and will not know if he is a "MASSIVE" Bust until this year...

We have blamed the coaches for the past 4 years now, and it is time for David Carr to put up or shut up. I am not for drafting Vince Young, that is for certain, but if Carr is this massive bust as some of you suggests, then we will have no problem drafting a QB next year that can start right away. ALA, Brady Quinn....

swtbound07
04-25-2006, 11:40 AM
But we do not and will not know if he is a "MASSIVE" Bust until this year...

We have blamed the coaches for the past 4 years now, and it is time for David Carr to put up or shut up. I am not for drafting Vince Young, that is for certain, but if Carr is this massive bust as some of you suggests, then we will have no problem drafting a QB next year that can start right away. ALA, Brady Quinn....

Sure we do...or at least this part of we does. Your part of we can feel free to stick your head in the sands of denial, but the time for David to put up or shutup is long past. YOU have blamed the coaches for the past 4 years. Notice how if you talk to someone about david's PERFORMANCE you get either
a)A stunning recap of the arizona game
b)a stunning recap of one half of the st louis game.
c)excuses.
d)told we are only in year 4 of the patented 6 year david carr development plan.

Of course, I am getting all of this out of my system now, cause like i said once the season starts our players are our players, and i support them on the field. However, offseason is for realism, and if your still hoping for success out of carr at this point your dreaming.

SESupergenius
04-25-2006, 12:29 PM
Honestly, I hope Carr has a great career. I really do. But I just can't see what people see in him.
Strong Arm, decent accuracy, fairly young enough to be molded, investment, never had a team (see Steve Young TB, Ben Roethlisburger PS)

Double Barrel
04-25-2006, 03:09 PM
You also have to admit that he has not had the players or coaches to be held reponsible ALL BY HIMSELF.
My point to the whole thing is that it is not the Texans and then Carr, people need to stop talking about him as though he is not apart of the team.
You also have to admit that he was not drafted by the Steelers but by the expantion Texans that started with nothing, but a Rookie QB. And a LT tackle named Jimmy Herndon.
You cant hold him to a regular QBs career, he was not a guy that was lucky enough to be drafted by a team that always go to the playoffs.

I understand your pov completely, Hulk. I'm a big picture kinda' guy.

Which is why DC is granted this "grace period" by many fans, simply because the old coaching regime was a failure.

However, that being said, our QB still has to prove himself and live up to his potential this season (even if the team doesn't do well). We are no longer an expansion team, so the reasons/excuses are becoming less and less.

Honestly, I'm not pro/anti-DC. I try to be a realist. And since he is our QB, I hope with all my heart that he has a record setting season in 2006 and beyond. Good for David Carr, good for the team. :)

HomeBred_Texan
04-25-2006, 03:48 PM
However, offseason is for realism, and if your still hoping for success out of carr at this point your dreaming.
And if you are hoping for success from Vince Dumb, you are dreaming...

thunderkyss
04-25-2006, 03:53 PM
You also have to admit that he has not had the players or coaches to be held reponsible ALL BY HIMSELF.
My point to the whole thing is that it is not the Texans and then Carr, people need to stop talking about him as though he is not apart of the team.
You also have to admit that he was not drafted by the Steelers but by the expantion Texans that started with nothing, but a Rookie QB. And a LT tackle named Jimmy Herndon.
You cant hold him to a regular QBs career, he was not a guy that was lucky enough to be drafted by a team that always go to the playoffs.

& why is it only David who gets this...... walk??

Why not Milford Brown, or Seth Wand, or Gaffney, or DD??


Maybe they could've had better Careers, if they had a different QB...

Look at Houshmandzadeh before and after Carson Palmer.

TwinSisters
04-25-2006, 05:27 PM
Strong Arm, decent accuracy, fairly young enough to be molded, investment, never had a team (see Steve Young TB, Ben Roethlisburger PS)

I agree. He has a strong accurate arm. ADD: Tough and reasonably mobile.

Looks good and gets the ladies too ( yes that includes the fans that are in touch with their feminine side ). Doesn't do things off the field to make the franchise look bad ( search: "Ron+Mexico" ).

I am also thinking now after four seasons, he is too much of a 'yes' man.
Pure speculation... but that doesn't stop the thought from bubbling up when I am trying to figure him out.

EDIT:

I just checked out his Wikipedia entry. His role model was Trent Dilfer.... :hmmm:

I am not so sure that was such a good choice... I am thinking I should mail him some brochures and pictures of better role models to choose from. That might help out quite a bit.

Dime
04-25-2006, 05:48 PM
Out of everyone on this board, I am probably the biggest critic of Carr. With my constant harping on him last year, some of you are starting to see the light that Carr hasnít progressed where he needs to be.

Part of this I blame on coaching. Some of this I blame on the Oline. Most of it I blame on Carr himself.

I will give him credit that he does at times do an excellent job at building momentum. Problem is, most of the time, he is the one who stops the momentum.

As I have said in the past, many times. I think he has poor decision making skills and a maximum on decent accuracy. He does have excellent arm strength and good running skills for the most part. The rest hasnít impressed me.

Now... EVEN I will give Carr this year to show much more improvement. If he shows the improvement that I have seen the last 3 years, I will not be happy. If he does show improvement in his weak area (folks, I am not talking winning games here, but improvement in play, decision making, and such), then I think he would deserve another year to continue to improve.

aj.
04-25-2006, 05:51 PM
Re: a two year grace period ... The reason why the Texans gave Carr his extension is that he gave them the best chance to "win now" (their words and rationale, not mine) especially when combined with the Putzier, Moulds, Bush, Flanagan type moves -- meaning, maybe not playoffs in '06 but back to being highly competitive right away with maybe an upset or two over playoff bound teams (as they have done before). If they felt patient enough to give their starting QB a two year grace period, they would be drafting the other guy and not signing a bunch of 32 year old free agents.

I can tell you one thing for sure. If we're headed into Week 11 or so with a struggling QB who's thrown more Int's than TDs and a passing offense that's in the bottom quartile (and especially with lower sack numbers), and we continue to hear the "just give him a little more time," thing, fan reaction is going to be much uglier than it is now. Hopefully it won't come to that.

tsip
04-25-2006, 06:41 PM
Now that just watching Carr on film is over and the coaches (including Kubiak) have gotten 'up close and personal,' there should be some sense of whether Carr is the real deal or not. IMO, no other decision will be more important for Kubiak as this is either 'feast or famine.' If Carr produces-great-the franchise moves forward. If he does not produce, the franchise will be starting over again. However, as other posters have mentioned, the Carr decision may only be McNair's and no one elses. He may want to play this out until the end, regardless of outcome, to justify his investment. For McNair, one of 2 things will happen--- "see, I told you so" or "we gave him every chance." We've already gone through the 'gray area' of Carr as a QB--all that is left is 'pass/fail/do/die.'

Double Barrel
04-25-2006, 07:04 PM
& why is it only David who gets this...... walk??

Why not Milford Brown, or Seth Wand, or Gaffney, or DD??


Good point, man.

Tulip
04-25-2006, 07:26 PM
That was cute, what ever makes you feel better, a lot of people agree with me.

Apparently, not many of your buddies buy season tickets. Last year the Reliant crowd started booing David Carr very early in the season.

ledzeppelin229
04-25-2006, 07:27 PM
Because Carr is the "face of the franchise" and obviously fan focus is going to be on him. The coaches could be giving passes to all those guys so far...but we don't know the details on Brown and Wand except they haven't been cut yet so things can't look too down at this point. And I wouldn't include DD in the same group since he hasn't underperformed by any means...he's just unfortunate to be on the same team with the chance to draft the highly-touted Reggie Bush.

HomeBred_Texan
04-25-2006, 07:52 PM
Apparently, not many of your buddies buy season tickets. Last year the Reliant crowd started booing David Carr very early in the season.
Were we boo'ng Carr or the play calling Capers sent in? I thought we/I was boo'ng Capers...

Tulip
04-25-2006, 08:34 PM
Were we boo'ng Carr or the play calling Capers sent in? I thought we/I was boo'ng Capers...

Capers got booed too, you could tell the difference by the timing of the boos. Carr was booed mostly for the many times he took needless sacks.

thunderkyss
04-25-2006, 09:46 PM
The coaches could be giving passes to all those guys so far...but we don't know the details on Brown and Wand except they haven't been cut yet so things can't look too down at this point.
Brown is gone........ will be starting for Arizona.

um... well basically our o-line just sucks they don't communicate very well w/ each other and basically play w/ no aggression.

You see....... you don't even understand the argument.... You are probably thinking I'm blaming the sacks, and losses on David Carr. Not so. But the point is, why should you be able to get away with criticizing the OLine so harshly, but we aren't allowed to criticize our Quarterback. Why is it overly difficult for Carr to overcome bad coaching and the wrong "system", but it should be a piece of cake for a 300lb lineman?? Why is it acceptable for our quarterback to give up on a program(play without aggresion) and not our linemen??

DD- domdavis is a good back and w/ his size and durability concerns we need 2 of him to be good, and thats what were gonna have(bush) and both will have plenty of energy and both will be competing like crazy b/c they both want to be the full time starter, so they will basically be competing every time they're in for the whole season. which could only mean positive outcomes
Dom has played more games in his first three years as Edgerin James, Marshall Faulk, Shaun Alexander, Tiki Barber, Larry Johnson, Jamal Lewis, Priest Holmes, etc...... etc...... his stats compare well with all of them. His Rookie season, is better than Ronnie Browns, and LTs is only slightly better(200 rushing yards, having played 2 more games than DD, when DD came off the bench for 2, and LT started 16. DD 351 recieving yards, LT 367..... still playing 2 less games, and coming off the bench in 2 of the games he did play)

Gaffney- he was a great receiver, he wanted to leave to a better place, and i wouldn't blame him, i'm just really stooped to how bradford was still able to start over gaffney. (gaffney will have a blow out season w/ the eagles this year IMO)
Did Gaffney want to go??

besides, those players who else? huh?
every1, but who's the 1st player on the team being blamed? the 3rd string TE?
no! the QB no matter what.are you serious?? Carr hasn't gotten blamed for the last 4 years...... that's the problem. OL is blamed....... recievers are blamed...... the running game is blamed..... the secondary, the DLine, our LB, our defensive set, our defensive coordinator, our offensive coordinators... our full back, our tightend....... everybody has been blamed.... before the QB. Even our cheerleaders.

why are we so mad at CARR?
It's not like our team was an offensive team, or even coached by an offensive minded coach, our team was coached by a defensive conservative coach(and the rest of the staff)
If we have a Defensive geared team and we lose and our team is one of the worst, then i'd be pissed at the defensive captain, i wouldn't really care about carr
only if we ran indy's offense or some aggressive, offense that required a lot of passing! and coached by offensive minded coach, then HELL yeah id be pissed at carr!
I get the impression, that you think we are blaming Carr for our 2-14 season, or our loosing seasons all together. That, is not the case. We are saying that Carr is playing like a rookie...... some are saying he is playing worse, than he did as a rookie....... things like not leading his reciever like he should, when he does have time to pass. leaving the pocket before it breaks down....... running into the rush, instead of away from it. eyeballing his reciever, not getting rid of the ball when his foot hits the ground, on a three step drop. &, the QB is supposed to make his teammates look better. He has a hard time making himself look good.


DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW???????????

hell, don't tell me you yourself didn't know when we were gonna run the ball and how, and when we were gonna pass the ball, and how?(short slants)

come on give me a break!
So we get rid of our 2nd round pick, Gaffney, who has his future ahead of him?? YOu know he's going to be something....
Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Moulds for the next two years, but then what?? We could of used the draft pick used for Moulds, to move up into the first, and get the Corner/Safety we wanted.

Then you get my man beat and battered behind the Line of scrimmage, & call him injury proned?? Even though he has worked his but off, to help this team succeed, but you roll out the red carpet for the man coming to take his job??


I'm not pro/anti Carr or Vince but like i said Carr right now is best for our team and i still think he will be a great qb along w/ vince, but as for vince not now and not here, looking at all the polls in and around houston about 80% of the population voted for vince, and you know what, as soon as carr loses his first game, gets sacked, throws an incomplete pass/interception every 1 of y'all will boo him, and mock him to the ground, along w/ our biased journalists, and that alone might bring him down, but hopefully he gets motivated that much more and cash out and win some s. bowls w/ another team.
You think Carr won't get booed if we pass on Vince?? Have you thought this through?? I hope Carr does well, but people are going to be screaming for Sage, Dave Ragone..... heck, some people might be screaming for Tony Banks.

thunderkyss
04-25-2006, 11:44 PM
You know...... in all honesty, thinking about the Kubiak Dynasty thread.... I hope, really hope David works his way into the HOF..... I hope we (the Houston Texans) change something I think is very wrong with the NFL......

Head coaches.... 5 year avg tenure?? that's silly. Same thing with QBs..... and running backs.... But think about all the young QBs we've messed up over the years.... Charlie Batch...... I know.... but back in the day, he was all the talk.... he was going to save Detroit..... Harrington..... I really like this kid. Tim Couch........ prototypical....... Brees.. maybe... Bollinger.....

SESupergenius
04-26-2006, 12:10 AM
& why is it only David who gets this...... walk??

Why not Milford Brown, or Seth Wand, or Gaffney, or DD??


Maybe they could've had better Careers, if they had a different QB...

Look at Houshmandzadeh before and after Carson Palmer.
David doesn't get a walk, nobody on this team does, you can't fire the whole team. Capers and Co. took the blame, next in line is Casserly then if need be Carr. With all the ribbing Carr gets, he's by far the player not getting a walk, in fact he's taking the brunt of most criticism. Thus it goes being the QB.

BattleRedGuy
04-26-2006, 01:09 PM
I'm in the camp that feels this year is Carr's last chance, barring injury. I will not pass judgement on Carr or the whole team for the first 4 games as they will have to get the new schemes under their belt.