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View Full Version : Fantastic article concerning picking Bush or Williams


bulldawgtexan
04-24-2006, 12:26 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2419503

Kaiser Toro
04-24-2006, 12:33 PM
very good article that echoes a lot that has been spoken here

just a snippet for critics of Williams:
Critics point to the fact that 13 of Williams' 14 sacks last season came in the Wolfpack's final seven games and wonder about his consistency. Williams offered an interesting explanation for that. It took him four games to figure out how to better deal with cut blocks. Instead of wasting time pushing down with both hands on blockers' shoulder pads and stepping around the block the way linemen are taught, Williams learned how to handle blockers with one hand or just hurdle them. He had three sacks in NC State's fifth game, against Wake Forest.

A longtime defensive line coach says that on film, Williams appears to be playing a bit "cautious." Williams concurred with the observation. At NC State, the ends' first responsibility was outside containment (bootlegs, reverses) and at one point they weren't even allowed to take an inside rush. That discipline might give the impression that Williams was taking plays off. "I don't feel like my play changed from the beginning of the season to the end of the season," he said. "Maybe my numbers were different, but I ran the same way."

texansfaninla
04-24-2006, 12:44 PM
Says here that he drives a Ford F250 diesel truck. I guess that's all he could fit in.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2006/neubauer2102.htm

black00ls1
04-24-2006, 01:01 PM
I think he has good point. The Texans can't lose either way with Williams or Bush but defense wins Championships. The offense is ready to take off but the defense still needs a lot help. I know I am going to get bashed and ask what the heck I know about football. I do know that Williams will be a better pick than bush in the long run.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2419503

Sorry you guys for the long Thread I pasted the link.

Thanks

sprtsfanatic
04-24-2006, 01:02 PM
article had a lot of very valid points....thanks for the finding and sharing it, but thats a hard decision and although we cant really go wrong with the 1st pick...it will be interesting to see which way we go on the 29th.

texasguy346
04-24-2006, 01:10 PM
Please cut it down to a quote. We don't allow full length articles from anything other than HoustonTexans.com. Also, provide a link. I'm moving this to the NFL Draft forum.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2006, 01:13 PM
Please cut it down to a quote. We don't allow full length articles from anything other than HoustonTexans.com. Also, provide a link. I'm moving this to the NFL Draft forum.


Here ya'll go

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2419503

Ibar_Harry
04-24-2006, 01:16 PM
I think money is also an issue with Bush and his expectations I believe far and away exceed those of Williams. I feel very similarly. It's one way to throw water on the Bush-VY thing. In reality Williams fills more of a hole than either Bush or VY do. Its funny, but perhaps we can't see the tree for the forest.

Frank_The_Tank
04-24-2006, 01:20 PM
I know a good reason not to draft Bush, He is a cheat who will take a bribe! Enough said!

Coach C.
04-24-2006, 01:27 PM
Ok most people know on the boards that I am a big Mario and Winston fan. I know Bush is big time and I think he can greatly help the team, and boy would the shootouts with teams be fun, similar to the Chiefs I think. I thought this was a good article with some valid points, I just wish he would not have used some of the faulty logic that some people use to support their guy. This guy is bad because of this, eventhough my guy does some of the same things he is great. Anyway a definate worthwhile read, and bravo to Michael Smith for being ballsy enough to write it.

nunusguy
04-24-2006, 01:51 PM
I think money is also an issue with Bush and his expectations I believe far and away exceed those of Williams. I feel very similarly. It's one way to throw water on the Bush-VY thing. In reality Williams fills more of a hole than either Bush or VY do. Its funny, but perhaps we can't see the tree for the forest.
For the umpteenth time, need/"hole" should not be the leading criteria a team uses for the #1 overall. But if it were, we just expended our biggest hunk of
FA funds on a guy who will be playing the same position as Williams, and we already have edge rushers like Peek who can play that position on thirds if we choose to move Weaver inside on those downs.
And if an owner is so miserly that he would actually consider passing on the Drafts most talented player for a lesser player to save some cap, well how's it go: "penny wise and pound foolish", he should just trade out of the top pick for the best deal he can to save those bucks if that's such a high priority.

Ibar_Harry
04-24-2006, 01:57 PM
For the umpteenth time, need/"hole" should not be the leading criteria a team uses for the #1 overall. But if it were, we just expended our biggest hunk of
FA funds on a guy who will be playing the same position as Williams, and we already have edge rushers like Peek who can play that position on thirds if we choose to move Weaver inside on those downs.
And if an owner is so miserly that he would actually consider passing on the Drafts most talented player for a lesser player to save some cap, well how's it go: "penny wise and pound foolish", he should just trade out of the top pick for the best deal he can to save those bucks if that's such a high priority.

For the mpteenth time I will say there is a good chance the league owners would not like to see a large increase paid to this year's number 1 pick. People like Ralph Wilson are up in arms about the new bargining agreement with respect to the smaller clubs and the impact it will have on them. Therefore, in return for the agreement I believe there is a lot of pressure on the bigger owners to tone things down for the smaller owners. No, I do not know this to be the case, except from listening to the discussions and comments by other owners.

As to Williams he is only a tick or two below Bush in his overall evaluation. As a matter of fact there are a number of NFL types that Williams is indeed the better player over the long haul. That evaluation includes comparisons to both Bush and VY.

We have done a lot with our offense and the defense could certainly use some help. Given all of the nonsense out there right now it would seem that Williams is now the better option.

Texan in Japan
04-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Very good article. It definitely makes you think. Hearing about how the defense scheme, kept Mario from pursuing helps explain a bit of what others have complained about.

I'll be happy w/ either pick.

jacquescas
04-24-2006, 03:52 PM
After reading the article i kinda agree with him. Williams does still have upside and is the prototypical size.

They said the only reason we wouldn't draft williams is because we have soo much money tied to the defensive line. Weaver, Robaire, Payne, TJ being a first rounder, and Babin too. Still i'm salivating thinking about Weaver and Williams bookends with Payne, Smith, and TJ rotating in the middle. Plus babin backing up the ends. Thats a stout line if i ever heard of one.

Plus Kubiak will do a better job than capers at rotating the backs in so Morrency will definately get some touches.

I'd like to trade down a spot or two to get him thats my only qualm.

Either way we get Bush or Williams i am happy

black00ls1
04-24-2006, 04:07 PM
After reading the article i kinda agree with him. Williams does still have upside and is the prototypical size.

They said the only reason we wouldn't draft williams is because we have soo much money tied to the defensive line. Weaver, Robaire, Payne, TJ being a first rounder, and Babin too. Still i'm salivating thinking about Weaver and Williams bookends with Payne, Smith, and TJ rotating in the middle. Plus babin backing up the ends. Thats a stout line if i ever heard of one.

Plus Kubiak will do a better job than capers at rotating the backs in so Morrency will definately get some touches.

I'd like to trade down a spot or two to get him thats my only qualm.

Either way we get Bush or Williams i am happy


Ditto!!!

TreWardTxn
04-24-2006, 04:25 PM
I like Michael Smith and noticed my head bobbing in agreement a few times during the article, but then I came across this assertion and realized that he did somethin to alter his mindstate:

"Houston would never forgive the Texans if it turns out they picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Except the Texans would be picking Shaquille O'Neal."

Obvious hyperbole, way out in the deep end.

For the Texans (Kubiak), this upcoming season is about one thing; improving the play of QB David Carr. He's been locked up financially, he's not getting traded, Kubiak has to find a way to make this guy shine. Bush is the only logical solution to making Carr and the offense produce in the shortest amount of time.

So, are the Texans going to let another game changing DE slip out of their hands? Yes. Will the offensive results make it worth it? They better. Other DEs will be around to help the Texans D, taking Bush is a chance to get instantly better on one side of the ball. Whether that's the correct approach is debatable, but that's what's coming...

Texans_Chick
04-24-2006, 06:41 PM
This article deserves to be bumped back up the page.

At least for considering some of the knocks on Williams and whether they are unfounded or not. (The things repeated ad nauseum on talk radio and MBs by people who have never seen him play).

BradK10
04-24-2006, 06:52 PM
What about for the critics who say he plays too high?

I do like the fact he drives a big truck, kinda got that southerner in him huh? That I like!

Wolf
04-24-2006, 06:54 PM
he made a good point about the chiefs and the Colts.. high powered offenses that haven't done much without a complimentary defense.

MorKnolle
04-24-2006, 10:25 PM
I think he has good point. The Texans can't lose either way with Williams or Bush but defense wins Championships. The offense is ready to take off but the defense still needs a lot help. I know I am going to get bashed and ask what the heck I know about football. I do know that Williams will be a better pick than bush in the long run.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2419503

Sorry you guys for the long Thread I pasted the link.

Thanks

Defense does indeed usually win championships and I agree that I think Mario is the better pick for our team in terms of who will create a bigger impact for us, although I won't go so far as to say that I "know" Mairo will be a better pick than Bush. However, as I've said I think he will create a bigger impact for our team and DEs typically last longer than RBs as well, and I also think that the offensive moves they've made this offseason, including bringing in Kubiak, will give us a good enough product on offense and defense should be our bigger concern right now.

For the mpteenth time I will say there is a good chance the league owners would not like to see a large increase paid to this year's number 1 pick. People like Ralph Wilson are up in arms about the new bargining agreement with respect to the smaller clubs and the impact it will have on them. Therefore, in return for the agreement I believe there is a lot of pressure on the bigger owners to tone things down for the smaller owners. No, I do not know this to be the case, except from listening to the discussions and comments by other owners.

As to Williams he is only a tick or two below Bush in his overall evaluation. As a matter of fact there are a number of NFL types that Williams is indeed the better player over the long haul. That evaluation includes comparisons to both Bush and VY.

We have done a lot with our offense and the defense could certainly use some help. Given all of the nonsense out there right now it would seem that Williams is now the better option.

I agree with your whole post.

Clips from the article I particularly like (and some of which I have been more or less stating for the last couple weeks):
Choosing Williams over Bush is the smart choice if not the most popular. It isn't that Williams is the better player; a college scouting director whom I swear by told me that Bush is the best player he's ever evaluated, that Bush received a rating one point below perfect on his scale, while Williams graded out one point behind Bush. So I believe the Texans are in fact torn between Bush and Williams, whom they have rated equally atop their draft board.
Consider what happened (or didn't) this offseason with regard to several high-profile running backs. Indianapolis let Edgerrin James go as a free agent (the same James general manager Bill Polian drafted after he dealt Marshall Faulk to St. Louis, and the same Polian who, when he was in charge of the Bills, picked Thurman Thomas in Round 2). Shaun Alexander re-signed early with Seattle because the money was with the Seahawks and not on the open market. Free agents Jamal Lewis (Baltimore) and Ahman Green (Green Bay) ended up re-signing with their old clubs for short money.
The Texans should take Williams because he plays the position with more impact, D-end. Good running backs come in all sizes, shapes and rounds. Great pass rushers are rare. That's why backs don't get paid what ends do.
Running backs, which have the shortest career span of any position, seem to come and go, often because teams decide to let them. New Texans coach Gary Kubiak knows this, having served as offensive coordinator in Denver, where the system -- the same one he's brought with him to Houston -- has produced five different 1,000-yard running backs (and a few yards short of two more last year) in Mike Shanahan's 11 years as head coach. None of those backs was a first-rounder. So Kubiak should be able to get plenty of production, if not the home runs, out of Domanick Davis (3,195 yards in three seasons), Vernand Morency, or whomever.
But even if he goes on to be the best ever, Bush still won't change the game. Championships still are won with defense.
Any good defense begins with an effective pass rush, which is why you don't pass up a chance to get a freak like Williams and why if you can help it you don't let the good ones go. Two years ago, the Giants acquired the No. 1 overall pick, Eli Manning, from the Chargers, but did so without general manager Ernie Accorsi's including a then-little-known defensive end by the name of Osi Umenyiora in the deal. Indianapolis let four-time 1,500-yard rusher James walk partly because it is going to need money to sign end Dwight Freeney. Notoriously frugal New England just broke the bank for Richard Seymour, perhaps the best defensive lineman in all of football.
The question is: What are the Texans trying to build? Short-term excitement or a title contender? Was owner Bob McNair sincere when he told the Texans' brain trust not to concern itself with selling tickets but, because winning fills seats, to select the best football player for the team long term?
Houston's first mission has to be to catch the Colts, whom the Texans haven't beaten in eight tries. The teams that give Indianapolis trouble (New England, San Diego, Pittsburgh) are the ones that pressure Peyton Manning.
So, Houston, you want to try your luck in a shootout with the Colts? Take Bush. Want to get to Manning? Get Williams.
Houston would never forgive the Texans if it turns out they picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.
Except the Texans would be picking Shaquille O'Neal.
"I've seen solid players, impact players," Titans coach Jeff Fisher told The (Nashville) Tennessean, "but nobody that has a potential to impact a defense like [Williams]."
The game hasn't seen a man of Williams' size (6-foot-7, 295 pounds and growing -- he could carry 310) and strength (35 reps of 225 on the bench press) who moves (40-yard dash time in 4.6 to 4.7 seconds, 40-inch vertical jump) with the knee-bend that he does. Cross Peppers with Seymour and add a touch of Minnesota's Kevin Williams and you get this kid. [B]Peppers, scouts say, was more fluid in his change of direction and a bit quicker than Williams but was not as physical and didn't have as good a motor coming out of North Carolina. There hasn't been a defensive end prospect with Williams' package in years. Asked to whom he would compare Williams, our college scouting director replied, "Nobody. I've never seen anybody like him."
With Bush, you're talking 15-20 touches a game plus a few returns. Williams will play 60 snaps a game and give the Texans more for their money. Speaking of money, it's true the Texans have a lot of it invested in their defensive line. Travis Johnson and Jason Babin are former first-round picks, Antwan Peek will play for the first-round restricted tender this year, Robaire Smith was a big signing two years ago and Anthony Weaver just got $12.5 million to sign. Perhaps the last thing the Texans need to do is invest more money in their defensive line, but they don't have anyone like Williams.
Another thing: Williams has more -- yes -- upside than Bush. He's 21 years old, still raw. Dare I say it: We may already have seen the best of Bush. I can't help but wonder if it's possible for him to look any better or even as good, and the same goes for Matt Leinart, without the line and the supporting cast he played with at USC. It's like, Tom Cruise stars in a lot of good movies, but you add Jack Nicholson, Kiefer Sutherland, Kevin Bacon and Demi Moore and you've got "A Few Good Men."
Wait until Williams gets NFL coaching and learns how to really use those long arms. At NC State the coaches didn't spend a lot of time teaching hand techniques and such. "I feel like the sky's the limit," Williams said.
Williams says he'd like to go No. 1 overall, but he's more concerned about where his team picks in the future.
"I want to go to a team that's going to best utilize my abilities, so I can help them win a championship," he said, "and maybe next year we can be at the 32nd pick."
and my personal favorite:
The choice of Williams comes down to whether the Texans want to sell tickets now or distribute Super Bowl tickets later.

utahmark
04-25-2006, 06:54 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=2419503

Dolby
04-25-2006, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the article. I agree that Williams is the best choice and then we need to focus on the offensive line with our remainig picks.

dolby of cypress

It only gets better from this point.... doc

Cincinnatikid
04-25-2006, 09:20 PM
Is he really the best pick? think about the colts games this past season. were the texans not tied at halftime and ended up losing because they offense could not manage to score or move down the field. The defense did an admirable job last season with hardly any rest in the colts games. I really agree that both players are going to be great, but I think the defense will be much better this season and they will be able to add people after the 1st pick. The offense needs to get points on the board and they need to get help on the line and you need multiple weapons in the nfl to score. The colts had 3 receivers a TE and a RB. The steelers had 2 RB 2WR and a TE. Right now the Texans have 2 Receivers 1 decent RB and thats it. The offense needs help.

MorKnolle
04-25-2006, 10:05 PM
One interesting point from the article, would the Texans prefer to try to outduel Indy in a shootout or beat them with defense? The Steelers handled Indy pretty well during the playoffs, I don't see their offense being any better than what ours can be with roughly the personnel we have now, the main difference is the Steelers defense vs. our defense. Peyton seems to have problems with effective 3-4 defenses (esp. Pittsburgh and New England), but bottom line if you can put pressure on Manning with your front line and let everyone else cover his receivers, you can beat him. You have to be able to score points, but more importantly you have to be able to prevent them from scoring.

Ibar_Harry
04-25-2006, 10:12 PM
One interesting point from the article, would the Texans prefer to try to outduel Indy in a shootout or beat them with defense? The Steelers handled Indy pretty well during the playoffs, I don't see their offense being any better than what ours can be with roughly the personnel we have now, the main difference is the Steelers defense vs. our defense. Peyton seems to have problems with effective 3-4 defenses (esp. Pittsburgh and New England), but bottom line if you can put pressure on Manning with your front line and let everyone else cover his receivers, you can beat him. You have to be able to score points, but more importantly you have to be able to prevent them from scoring.

Its amazing how even the best act when pressured. I will agree that Manning doesn't like pressure. He also doesn't like it when things are not going his way for whatever reason. He can loose his cool real easy and then the gig is up.

Apoch
04-25-2006, 11:47 PM
It is a very, very interesting dilema for the Houston organization to have.

You have two amazing players; one on offense, one on defense.

One could be the next Gale Sayers: a player who's talent was ahead of his time, and who's exciting play new no rival. 21 TDs as a rookie, and only the lack of modern medicine could slow him down. A scoring machine... impossible to tackle; untouchable; immense talent...

The other could be the next Reggie White: a mountain of a man who could dominate games from his position, and be a D-MVP calibur player. Sheer dominance; impossible to block; impossible to move...

Both have perfect sets of measurables...

Both have great characters...

Both want to be great...

Both have already been great...

Both would step into positions and share time with/push out other players...

Both have the potential to redefine their respective positions...

Both are available to the Houston Texans.

Janus3
04-26-2006, 01:33 AM
very very very good article. i was about 25/75 on bush mario afteer this i'm leaning towards mario a bit more. bush getting drafted is ok in my book as well if they do do it.

outofhnd
04-26-2006, 04:37 AM
Did we pick a pretty good year to suck or what? 2 players with almost perfect draft scores? How many times does talent like this come at the top of the NFL draft? I have never heard of anyone graded higher.

I say we Draft mario because that causes chaos for the saints who just signed RB this offseason. They may have to pass on reggie and take Dbrick #2 because again its a team where RB is not a need.

Now Bush is at Tennesee Where they will prolly have to go Leinhart. I know Reese likes Vince, but you may lose McNair with the stupid lockout stunt. You need a QB that can come in and already know the offense. Leinhart is that guy.

NY Jets Finally Reggie gets taken by the team that covets him and needs him most.

Packers take AJ hawk to round out the top 5.

HOOK'EM
04-26-2006, 11:34 AM
I will be happy either way, but still leaning towards Bush.:redtowel: