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TEXANS84
08-24-2004, 01:48 AM
Starting DE leaves practice, undergoes MRI on his groin
By CARLTON THOMPSON
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle


The Texans got a bit of a scare Monday when two-time Pro Bowl defensive end Gary Walker went down with a groin injury during the team portion of the indoor workout.

Walker had to be helped off the field by trainers, and he was examined on the field before leaving practice early. The 31-year-old defensive end underwent an MRI exam Monday evening, but the results were not immediately available.

"Gary had a little tightness in his groin, so they took him in to check it out," Texans coach Dom Capers said. "It was just out here in team. He turned and cut, and it tightened up on him."

Walker is coming off a frustrating 2003 season during which he injured his shoulder during the preseason and missed 12 regular-season games because of the shoulder injury and a severe case of turf toe.

Prior to last season, Walker had missed two games in seven seasons. If Walker can't play against Denver Friday, either Jerry Deloach or Corey Sears will start at left defensive end.

There's a chance nose tackle Seth Payne, who is recovering from knee surgery, will play against the Broncos.

If Payne doesn't start at Denver, Deloach will make his third consecutive start at nose tackle, making Sears the obvious choice at left defensive end if Walker can't play.

This is kinda scary...I'd hate to see one of the strong 3 go down...even when we are hoping Seth is ready to go on September 12th.
Article from the HoustonChronicle.com

rittenhouserobz
08-24-2004, 06:08 AM
This is kinda scary...I'd hate to see one of the strong 3 go down...even when we are hoping Seth is ready to go on September 12th.
Article from the HoustonChronicle.com

At least we are breaking in the rookies. This look is close to last year. There is no doubt that we draft more DL next year.

aj.
08-24-2004, 07:02 AM
31 years old - about the time for a 300 lb DL to start showing signs of breaking down, maybe?

But then there's the minor detail of the 11 million signing bonus and 6 year, 37 million deal he was signed to in March.

This may turn out to be minor (hopefully it is) but a lot of people thought they overpaid Wade. I thought they overpaid Walker.

Cha-ching

nunusguy
08-24-2004, 08:47 AM
.

This may turn out to be minor (hopefully it is) but a lot of people thought they overpaid Wade. I thought they overpaid Walker.

Cha-ching
I thought we overpaid for both of them. And if we hadn't traded our 2, 3, &
4 we could have picked up Randy Starks with the 3. He might come in handy
right about now.

aj.
08-24-2004, 12:28 PM
...and we wouldn't have Babin and we wouldn't be looking so good at OLB either.

Me no comprende hindsight. No one knows if Starks is going to amount to anything special either.

I'm glad as hell we got G-Funk but all my point is that they paid top dollar (with a lot of future risk) to keep a 31 year old who missed most of last season. There was no reason to believe he wouldn't be healthy this year but he's getting to that age where the big dudes start breaking down. They will need at least 2-3 high performance years out of Gary to get the value back out of that contract.

rittenhouserobz
08-24-2004, 12:35 PM
...and we wouldn't have Babin and we wouldn't be looking so good at OLB either.

Me no comprende hindsight. No one knows if Starks is going to amount to anything special either.

I'm glad as hell we got G-Funk but all my point is that they paid top dollar (with a lot of future risk) to keep a 31 year old who missed most of last season. There was no reason to believe he wouldn't be healthy this year but he's getting to that age where the big dudes start breaking down. They will need at least 2-3 high performance years out of Gary to get the value back out of that contract.

Gary Walker's value is not just based on physical presence. He has leadership ability and experience. Not to mention he was pro-bowl player. I am sure he wants to healthy. :twocents:

El Tejano
08-24-2004, 12:37 PM
We don't need this right now. Please God!!

aj.
08-24-2004, 01:06 PM
Gary Walker's value is not just based on physical presence. He has leadership ability and experience. Not to mention he was pro-bowl player. I am sure he wants to healthy.I'm sure he wants to be healthy too, just like everyone wants him to be. You are also correct that he was a Pro Bowl player in 2002. This is 2004 and I'm talking about 2004, 2005, and 2006...

Being an experienced leader only goes so far when you can't get on the field. They don't pay guys top NFL salaries to stand on the sideline and clap and offer encouragement to younger players. They need 2 or 3 high quality years out of the guy (on the field -- 30 to 40 games worth) to get the value out of that contract.

Lucky
08-24-2004, 01:06 PM
...They will need at least 2-3 high performance years out of Gary to get the value back out of that contract.
You're saying that in essence the Texans signed Walker to a 3 year, $18 million contract. If you think it's a bad deal, who else would you prefer the Texans had signed? They had to have a starting LDE, right?

Citing the $37 million 6 year deal doesn't make sense when you know that Gary will never see the $19 million in salary in the final 3 years of the contract. If not Walker, then who & how much?

aj.
08-24-2004, 01:13 PM
You're saying that in essence the Texans signed Walker to a 3 year, $18 million contract. If you think it's a bad deal, who else would you prefer the Texans had signed? They had to have a starting LDE, right? I'm saying that if he can give us three years it WON'T be a bad deal. That way we'd only have to eat $5.5 million in dead money when he can't answer the bell in '07 when he's 34 years old and even more beat up. It's a mental cost-benefit analysis - nothing more complicated than that.

It's also not a "I wish we would have gone for this-guy or that-guy point" which I thought I had made clear earlier but I guess not.

Ibar_Harry
08-24-2004, 01:16 PM
Another groin injury? Does it seem like we are suffering too many of these injuries? I stated once before I'm beginning to wonder if our training program is some how the cause of some of these problems. Gary, by all accounts, is a very hard worker who pushes himself. Maybe we need to take a look at what we are doing in the weight room. Sometimes you can wind up tearing things down rather than building them up. Just a passing comment. Remember, Glenn who also is a hard worker suffered from the same problem last year and showed signs of it again this year. I'm really quite concerned about the numbers of our best players showing up with this problem. This might also be a sign of inadequate streching.

BigDTexansFan
08-24-2004, 01:17 PM
would rather have Gary Walker on our sidelines then going to another team like Titans who need D-line and playing us

Nawzer
08-24-2004, 01:23 PM
Any news about G-Funk today? Is he going to be ok?

aj.
08-24-2004, 01:27 PM
This is the latest:

Posted on Tue, Aug. 24, 2004

Texans' Walker suffers strained groin

Associated Press

HOUSTON - Houston Texans defensive end Gary Walker will rest for a week to 10 days to allow his strained groin to heal, general manager Charley Casserly said Tuesday.

Walker, the Texans' two-time Pro Bowl lineman, tweaked the muscle during practice Monday and had to be helped off the field. The team was worried enough about the injury to call for an MRI examination, which revealed a mild strain.

"He should be ready for the opener," Casserly said.

Walker, in his 10th NFL season, earned his second Pro Bowl trip in the Texans' inaugural 2002 season. He never was healthy last season as he suffered a variety of ailments, most notably a dislocated right toe that eventually landed him on injured reserve.

Walker, an expansion draft selection off Jacksonville's roster, almost left the Texans in the offseason because of a massive salary cap drain his old contract would have placed on Houston this season. However, he signed a new six-year deal to stay put

Lucky
08-24-2004, 01:33 PM
It's also not a "I wish we would have gone for this-guy or that-guy point" which I thought I had made clear earlier but I guess not.
It's not clear, because you stated that you thought the Texans overpaid for Walker. That pretty much implies that you felt:

a) the Texans should have signed another player at that price for the position.

b) the Texans should have looked at cheaper alternatives for that position.

c) the Texans should have kept Walker, they just did a lousy job of negotiating.

How many teams play the 34 now that could use a guy like Gary? Not to mention that Walker is a proven 43 DT, as well. If the Texans wanted Walker, I'm pretty sure they paid him what they needed to keep him.

Nawzer
08-24-2004, 01:35 PM
These groin injuries can be very tricky. I hope Gary Walker will be 100% come opening day but that thing can pop anytime anywhere. Remember how Roy Oswalt suffered? I'll keep my fingers crossed that Walker will be fine.

Vinny
08-24-2004, 02:29 PM
I look around the league and older 2-gap lineman are not real uncommon. Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Sam Adams and a host of others have played well deep into their careers. They rely on quick first steps, brute strength, leverage and hand-fighting. These traits do not diminish as say a linebackers speed or a running backs cutting abilities do as they age. I would even contend that 2-gap players are at their peak value late in their career since it is so hard for young linemen to come into this league and take on double teams. It really is a position that needs experience.

TEXANS84
08-24-2004, 03:19 PM
I hope Walker is back for the season opener because if he's not...Ladanian will abuse that side of the line.

Htown34s
08-24-2004, 03:59 PM
Whats sucks is that its a groin injury this early in the season. Those really never go away and chances are they'll get much worse.

At least our backups have more experience and we've added Robaire.

Mistril48
08-24-2004, 05:17 PM
I have an additional comment on the topic of signing Gary Walker.

I think that one of most difficult positions to draft for is defensive line. There have been a lot of first round picks who just don't pan out (it's so prevalent, I don't think I need to list them all), which also creates a lot of dead, or underutilized cap money. Some may come around after a few years, but still, drafting D-lineman in the first round represents risk.

I think the Texans can still be considered to be a franchise that is building it's base. Signing young lineman like The Baire and re-signing Walker so they can use their highest picks for QB, WR and CB makes sense. It also provided the chance for immediate improvement over last year. I hope they can pick off another 4 year d-lineman next year to deepen the position.

SESupergenius
08-24-2004, 07:14 PM
Walker is good, just had an injury problem last year and may take a little more time this year. You can say the same thing for Glenn, other walker, or all the tens of thousands of injured Texans we had last year. It's a strong possibility that some of those will take some time to heal. I just think that this is one of those situations where a 'need' in a draft should have been addressed. Babin may be good but we had 2 of our starters out with pretty significant injuries last year and it's pretty rare that a 3-4 team goes after a linebacker in the 1st round. Add to that the potential progress of Peek in his 2nd year as a 3-4 linebacker then we could have done without the Babin pick. Babin is going to take a while to get proficient in the 3-4 and may be good someday, but we did have pretty good depth before him. The D-line on the other needed some good healthy bodies to make the 3-4 successfull. Payne was big questionmark so you really don't know about his status until late in the pre-season. Seems like we should have added some insurance there. We added R. Smith, but he only replaces someone that should never be a starter in the 1st place.

aj.
08-24-2004, 09:12 PM
It's not clear, because you stated that you thought the Texans overpaid for Walker. That pretty much implies that you felt:

a) the Texans should have signed another player at that price for the position.

b) the Texans should have looked at cheaper alternatives for that position.

c) the Texans should have kept Walker, they just did a lousy job of negotiating.

Again, I'm glad he's on the team, and again, IF he ends up not being able to give us say...three solid years, then it's obvious if the risk comes to bear that they should have considered a cheaper alternative. An elusive point here is that this is more a discussion on risk than anything else.

The risk is they gave 2/3 of our DL 21 million in signing bonus alone, with a six year prorata commitment. Eventually that kind of stuff will come back to bite you in the ***, especially when you're giving it to older players. Don't just look at Walker, look at the bigger picture. Payne's contract comes due at the end of this year. If he plays well this year and shows that he is fully recovered, it will probably take near Walker and Smith money to re-sign him and I seriously doubt they will be able to keep all three next year at that price. One or two high priced guys on the line along with a guy like Corey Sears I can understand. An entire starting unit all paid top dollar is Carolina '95 all over again and isn't a good idea imo. If you give me the choice of 2 players among a healthy Smith, Payne and Walker for long term deals and I take Payne and Smith. The only unknown that the Texans had to deal with that forced their hand was the uncertainty about Payne. Think about what other positions you want to sacrifice when you start paying one position top dollar across the board. That's part of what I'm trying to say. It's a little more than just whether Gary is a good player or not -- which he obviously is. Also, consider Corey Sears and Jerry DeLoach are both free agents after this year. Unfortunately the ecomomics of the game force you to make some tough decisions on popular and talented players -- that is if you want to be competitive over the long term as opposed to an all or nothing approach.

Mistril48
08-24-2004, 11:29 PM
Payne's contract comes due at the end of this year. If he plays well this year and shows that he is fully recovered, it will probably take near Walker and Smith money to re-sign him and I seriously doubt they will be able to keep all three next year at that price. One or two high priced guys on the line along with a guy like Corey Sears I can understand. An entire starting unit all paid top dollar is Carolina '95 all over again and isn't a good idea imo. Think about what other positions you want to sacrifice when you start paying one position top dollar across the board...
I would prefer to see the Texans trim future salary at WR (Bradford), interior OL (Weigert/McKinney), S (Coleman) and LB (Wong) before D-line. It feels like the Texans are grooming players this year to step in to some of these roles. It's fine to say address the d-line need in the draft, but the problem is a lot of teams have drafted players for the d-line without a lot of success, IMO. Drafting someone for a position, even with a first round pick, is no guarantee of a productive player. A solid D-line is essential to develop young LBs and DBs, IMO.

aj.
08-25-2004, 07:09 AM
...the problem is a lot of teams have drafted players for the d-line without a lot of success, IMO. Drafting someone for a position, even with a first round pick, is no guarantee of a productive player. That's true for other positions too, not just DL.

SBTexans08
08-25-2004, 10:00 AM
That guy needs more fiber in his diet!

Carr Bombed
08-25-2004, 05:56 PM
I suffered a groin strain about 3 weeks ago and still not over it. About a week and a half after the strain I was feeling great, so I went to the track and walked, but jogged the curves for a couple of laps, because I'm leaving for boot camp for the Coast Guard in december and I'm trying to get in shape. Anyway when I woke up the next morning I couldn't hardly move my legs. Now I'm in physical therepy doing small groin exercises trying to speed up the healing of the muscle. Now they're telling me that they are going to have to strap a electronic muscle stimulator thingy to my groin (not looking forward to that!)to heal it faster and build up strength for boot camp. My point is that this is something that shouldnt be taken lightly. They better be positive that this thing is completly healed and then sit him out an additional week before he goes back out there, because if he injures it again it takes a long time to heal and will turn into a cronic injury that we'll be dealing with all season.