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DRAMA
04-22-2006, 06:46 PM
Why do people on this board and even some TV people keep saying Bush will be a 10-15 touch player? It's actually one of the more stupid things I've heard.

Lets say Bush carries the ball for the first 3 plays of the game. After that, for the next 3 qtrs and 13 minutes, he basically gets at most 12 more touches? So we'll allow for 2 more carries in the next 13 minutes of qtr #1 which takes him to 10 carries or touches left after quarter #1. That's roughly 3 more touches per qtr for the rest of the game? That's about 1 touch per every 5-6 minutes.

IMO - Bush will be carrying the ball 17-22 times a game and get thrown to 4-5 times a game.

Portis - 22 carries per game
Tiki - 22
Edge - 24
Dunn - 17
Cadillac - 20
Thomas Jones - 20
Domanick Davis - 20
LT - 21
Etc...

Basically, all I'm saying is yes, in college he was used a certain way...as was everyone who goes to college. If a 33 year old Anderson can get 17 carries and Tatum bell can get 11 then Reggie Bush can get 17-20. Good Lord - we were on the edge of our seat every time someone kicked off to us - I can't even imagine what it will be like on a pitch sweep.

swtbound07
04-22-2006, 06:50 PM
Why do people on this board and even some TV people keep saying Bush will be a 10-15 touch player? It's actually one of the more stupid things I've heard.

Lets say Bush carries the ball for the first 3 plays of the game. After that, for the next 3 qtrs and 13 minutes, he basically gets at most 12 more touches? So we'll allow for 2 more carries in the next 13 minutes of qtr #1 which takes him to 10 carries or touches left after quarter #1. That's roughly 3 more touches per qtr for the rest of the game? That's about 1 touch per every 5-6 minutes.

IMO - Bush will be carrying the ball 17-22 times a game and get thrown to 4-5 times a game.

Portis - 22 carries per game
Tiki - 22
Edge - 24
Dunn - 17
Cadillac - 20
Thomas Jones - 20
Domanick Davis - 20
LT - 21
Etc...

Basically, all I'm saying is yes, in college he was used a certain way...as was everyone who goes to college. If a 33 year old Anderson can get 17 carries and Tatum bell can get 11 then Reggie Bush can get 17-20. Good Lord - we were on the edge of our seat every time someone kicked off to us - I can't even imagine what it will be like on a pitch sweep.

the difference being that he will be splitting time with DD, so your 17-20 split between 2 people is 10-14.

DRAMA
04-22-2006, 08:23 PM
So a team only rushes 20 times a game? 10 for Reggie and 10 for DD?
:confused:

20 for RB and 10 for DD similar to Denver's 17 and 12 for Anderson and Bell.

swtbound07
04-22-2006, 08:26 PM
why is reggie taking the bulk of the carries in your world? DD is more the workhorse of the 2

ledzeppelin229
04-22-2006, 08:31 PM
I have no problem with DD taking close to half of the carries if Bush is an effective slot guy. I don't think it is a knock at all - it should keep both of them fresher and healthier and Bush can still be involved in the play.

F-minus67
04-22-2006, 09:07 PM
as long as Bush is on the field over 50% of the time, he will still create a ton of match up problems, even if he is just a smokescreen.

Runner
04-22-2006, 09:14 PM
why is reggie taking the bulk of the carries in your world? DD is more the workhorse of the 2

Because he's a better player in the real world.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-22-2006, 09:19 PM
17-20 touches a game. 12-15 carries and 5 receptions for Reggie Bush. That's how I'd like to see him utilized in our offense his rookie year.

Hottoddie
04-22-2006, 09:24 PM
Because he's a better player in the real world.

I just love how a player that has never stepped foot on the field of play during a real NFL game is automatically better than someone that's done it for 3 years. And, quite successfully I must say.

DRAMA
04-22-2006, 09:46 PM
I just love how a player that has never stepped foot on the field of play during a real NFL game is automatically better than someone that's done it for 3 years. And, quite successfully I must say.

Who are you talking about...Vince Young? :)

Big B Texan Fan
04-22-2006, 10:04 PM
First things first, he's gotta earn those 10-15 touches. Unlike the lasrt 2 NCAA Championship Games.

Runner
04-22-2006, 10:45 PM
I just love how a player that has never stepped foot on the field of play during a real NFL game is automatically better than someone that's done it for 3 years. And, quite successfully I must say.

So are you of the opinion that no player any team ever drafts should be projected as a starter, because the incumbent has already proved he's better? Great! In case you are right we should trade every single one of our draft picks for NFL veterans. Each and every trade would be an upgrade!!!! I can't believe no one has thought of this before! By the way, you better change you signature line - D'Brickashaw shouldn't be expected to be an upgrade on any lineman we have, following your logic.

I think it is more likely that you only use comments like this to defend players you like or attack players you don't.

However, if you just mean your opinion differs from my opinion, I understand that.

threetoedpete
04-22-2006, 11:13 PM
I just love how a player that has never stepped foot on the field of play during a real NFL game is automatically better than someone that's done it for 3 years. And, quite successfully I must say.


Agreed. We hear he can pass protect. We hear he can wham it up between the tackles. We'll see. My book says 201 is still 201. He's a great tallent , no doubt.
Won't knock the pick if we take him. He could just a easily bust as make it. What I find kinda funny is all the people that want to keep him on the sidelines
durring special teams. Good Grief, the guy is supposed to be unstopable in the open feild. Already we're spoon feeding prince Reggie befor he hits the feild. Gonna take a crow bar to pull the hook out of some folks if he busts. I'll have my crow with a grain of salt thank you very much. And I'll take my hype with a shadow of doubt.

The Dude Abides
04-22-2006, 11:15 PM
Because he's a better player in the real world.

Hey Davis is like an 87 on Madden. Bush is rumored to be an 85. That's got to count for something.

thunderkyss
04-23-2006, 12:35 AM
Agreed. We hear he can pass protect. We hear he can wham it up between the tackles. We'll see. My book says 201 is still 201. He's a great tallent , no doubt.
Won't knock the pick if we take him. He could just a easily bust as make it. What I find kinda funny is all the people that want to keep him on the sidelines
durring special teams. Good Grief, the guy is supposed to be unstopable in the open feild. Already we're spoon feeding prince Reggie befor he hits the feild. Gonna take a crow bar to pull the hook out of some folks if he busts. I'll have my crow with a grain of salt thank you very much. And I'll take my hype with a shadow of doubt.

Special teams is becoming more and more important to the game..... teams are looking at special teams alot differently.

But dude will take a lick returning kicks.... imagine.... first kickoff of 2006....... Reggie Bush catches the ball, and proceeds to return it. He gets 10 yards down field, and wham.... someone takes his head off. Or worse yet, takes a knee out.....

Reggie is out for the season, while he recovers from a torn interior ACL......

First of all, you should feel pretty stupid when this happens.... secondly, if you don't, there will be plenty of people to help you feel as stupid as humanly possible...... Thirdly..... as soon as you think people have forgotten your stupidity, ESPN will air a replay, 60 minutes will do a show, and Jay Leno will tell a joke to remind everyone.

Runner
04-23-2006, 01:21 AM
Already we're spoon feeding prince Reggie befor he hits the feild.

Who's we? The board? The only semi-official thing I've heard on this subject is that Bush said the Texans staff talked to him about playing on offense, punts, and kick-offs.

It looks like we're counting it as a knock against Bush that posters on this board say he'll never be used on special teams.

ledzeppelin229
04-23-2006, 02:32 AM
17-20 touches a game. 12-15 carries and 5 receptions for Reggie Bush. That's how I'd like to see him utilized in our offense his rookie year.

5 looks or 5 receptions? Since we have a hard enough time getting AJ the ball 5 times successfully...not to mention we have Moulds on the opposite side now too. Of course that was also Capersball, so maybe that should be taken a little more into account.

bckey
04-23-2006, 02:38 AM
Because he's a better player in the real world.

You can't say that for sure until he plays in the nfl.

Hottoddie
04-23-2006, 02:51 AM
So are you of the opinion that no player any team ever drafts should be projected as a starter, because the incumbent has already proved he's better? Great! In case you are right we should trade every single one of our draft picks for NFL veterans. Each and every trade would be an upgrade!!!! I can't believe no one has thought of this before! By the way, you better change you signature line - D'Brickashaw shouldn't be expected to be an upgrade on any lineman we have, following your logic.

I think it is more likely that you only use comments like this to defend players you like or attack players you don't.

However, if you just mean your opinion differs from my opinion, I understand that.

It's only because the mods would delete the post, that keeps me from telling you what I really think about your sarcastic response.

So, in the interest of civility, no, that's not my opinion. You, being overly sensitive to any criticism of your beloved Reggie Bush, are mistaken.

I, being a proponent of trading down to pick up more picks, spend less money on our #1 pick, & filling a greater need for the team, was merely trying to point out the distorted view that you are getting through your rose colored glasses.

By the way, get ready to have your Bush lovin' heart broken, because the Texan's are not going to have him on the roster next year. It's going to be either, Mario, D'Brick, Hawk, Huff, or Davis. Get used to it. :stirpot: :D

bckey
04-23-2006, 02:51 AM
So are you of the opinion that no player any team ever drafts should be projected as a starter, because the incumbent has already proved he's better? Great! In case you are right we should trade every single one of our draft picks for NFL veterans. Each and every trade would be an upgrade!!!! I can't believe no one has thought of this before! By the way, you better change you signature line - D'Brickashaw shouldn't be expected to be an upgrade on any lineman we have, following your logic.

I think it is more likely that you only use comments like this to defend players you like or attack players you don't.

However, if you just mean your opinion differs from my opinion, I understand that.

Runner, you usually make sense but not on this one. You know the draft is a crap shoot. Nobody is a sure thing. Even signing veterans can be hit and miss. The Texans have had their share of both.:)

Runner
04-23-2006, 05:01 AM
It's only because the mods would delete the post, that keeps me from telling you what I really think about your sarcastic response.

So, in the interest of civility, no, that's not my opinion. You, being overly sensitive to any criticism of your beloved Reggie Bush, are mistaken.

I, being a proponent of trading down to pick up more picks, spend less money on our #1 pick, & filling a greater need for the team, was merely trying to point out the distorted view that you are getting through your rose colored glasses.

By the way, get ready to have your Bush lovin' heart broken, because the Texan's are not going to have him on the roster next year. It's going to be either, Mario, D'Brick, Hawk, Huff, or Davis. Get used to it. :stirpot: :D

Well, I compliment you on the civility in you response. I also like the fact that this one included some facts rather than just implying I'm not too bright.

However, I hate to disappoint you about being a Bush lover*. Do I think he'll be a better NFL player than Davis? Yes, I still do. I don't think that is all that outlandish a statement.

But I would not be disappointed if we traded down and did something else like stock up the defense starting with AJ Hawk. If we could find a partner in such a trade, I'd probably pull the trigger. Even with the multiple good draft choices we get in return the cap hit is far nicer since it would be spread out over more key weak areas.

The problem is, I don't know if that trade is going to be available. It takes two to tango. If we are "stuck" with the #1 pick the team will use it on somebody they project will be better than what they have at that position. In this draft it looks like that player would be Bush. In my opinion there are several ways that the Texans could go with this draft and obtain a successful result. The fact is there are many routes that they can plan to get to that success, so I predict I won't be overly disappointed after draft day, no matter which route they take.

*Here are a couple of posts I've made the past two days showing some of my opinions on the draft matter. Note I acknowledge that Bush is over-hyped (which I think is true of many top prospects to various degrees - it's the nature of the draft). I said "75% of his potential" rather than "75% of his hype" to avoid being labeled a Bush hater. Ironic.

Also note that the Hawk quote was in response to a suggested list of players we could get after a trade down where we used some of those extra picks to select a couple of first day defensive backs.

Back to the topic of trading the #1 for D - that is a very appealing scenario. Equally appealing is Reggie Bush living up to at least 75% of his potential.

When I take a step back and look at these two options after cutting away a lot of the extraneous stuff flying around, I find it is a very difficult decison. I'm glad I don't have to make it. We are lucky enough to have many good options this year; either route can lead to great team success.

Change #4 from Ferguson to Hawk and we'd have a nicely balanced team.

Runner
04-23-2006, 05:12 AM
Runner, you usually make sense but not on this one. You know the draft is a crap shoot. Nobody is a sure thing. Even signing veterans can be hit and miss. The Texans have had their share of both.:)

Just a reductio ad absurdum respose to a response I got to a simple post of mine that in my opinion Bush will be better than Davis. It seems like that is crazy talk and now I'm a Bush lover.

I have three rules for my posts I started following about February, and I recently stopped following them. I should have known something like this would happen. The rules?

1) Don't post on a Carr thread.
2) Don't post on a Young thread.
3) Don't post on a Bush thread.

Kaiser Toro
04-23-2006, 06:47 AM
Because he's a better player in the real world.

Yes he was a better college player. Potentially he will be a better NFL back, but at this point, in the real world, DD is the better NFL back.

chuckm
04-23-2006, 11:28 AM
Yes he was a better college player. Potentially he will be a better NFL back, but at this point, in the real world, DD is the better NFL back.


Does this argument make Babin a better NFL DE than MWilliams? or TWade a better NFL OT than DFerguson?

There will always be a chance of pulling a TMandarich or Akili Smith, but Bush sure looks like the real thing to me .... :twocents:

chuckm
04-23-2006, 11:29 AM
I have three rules for my posts I started following about February, and I recently stopped following them. I should have known something like this would happen. The rules?

1) Don't post on a Carr thread.
2) Don't post on a Young thread.
3) Don't post on a Bush thread.


Jeeez that cuts out about 80% of your posting possibilities ....

ArlingtonTexan
04-23-2006, 12:28 PM
1) Don't post on a Carr thread.
2) Don't post on a Young thread.
3) Don't post on a Bush thread.

I thought I was the only one who had these rules in place. :highfive:

Hottoddie
04-23-2006, 01:33 PM
Well, I compliment you on the civility in you response. I also like the fact that this one included some facts rather than just implying I'm not too bright.

However, I hate to disappoint you about being a Bush lover*. Do I think he'll be a better NFL player than Davis? Yes, I still do. I don't think that is all that outlandish a statement.

But I would not be disappointed if we traded down and did something else like stock up the defense starting with AJ Hawk. If we could find a partner in such a trade, I'd probably pull the trigger. Even with the multiple good draft choices we get in return the cap hit is far nicer since it would be spread out over more key weak areas.

The problem is, I don't know if that trade is going to be available. It takes two to tango. If we are "stuck" with the #1 pick the team will use it on somebody they project will be better than what they have at that position. In this draft it looks like that player would be Bush. In my opinion there are several ways that the Texans could go with this draft and obtain a successful result. The fact is there are many routes that they can plan to get to that success, so I predict I won't be overly disappointed after draft day, no matter which route they take.

*Here are a couple of posts I've made the past two days showing some of my opinions on the draft matter. Note I acknowledge that Bush is over-hyped (which I think is true of many top prospects to various degrees - it's the nature of the draft). I said "75% of his potential" rather than "75% of his hype" to avoid being labeled a Bush hater. Ironic.

Also note that the Hawk quote was in response to a suggested list of players we could get after a trade down where we used some of those extra picks to select a couple of first day defensive backs.

Very nice response.

I'm just so tired of reading all the BS & outlandish claims about Bush & Young. I'm hoping we trade down & don't take either one of them. So, hopefully, you understand why I responded the way I did to your post that Bush, without having played in the NFL yet, is a better back than DD. He may ultimately be, but he's not there yet.

As I stated in an earlier post, I'm of the opinion that we should trade down. While I too, won't be disappointed in whatever way we go in the draft (And yes, that includes selecting Bush as well), my personal choice for our 1st pick is D'Brick.

Hawk would be a great selection, but we've been trying to get a franchise LT since the inception of this team. Now we have within our grasp, a player that has been described by many scouts & draft experts as a LT that comes along once every 10-12 years. While I'll support any player the team chooses, I'll be a little disappointed, if they let him slip through their fingers.

Winston, Scott, McNeil, & Colledge may all be great LT's at some point in the future, but even with the premium put on LT's, there's a reason they're not projected to go in the first round. I believe that D'Brick is that much better than any other LT in the draft this year.

What I hope, & believe, is that the Texans are trying to wrangle a #1 pick for next year out of someone. That way, we'll be in a better position to make a run at what I believe to be a much better RB prospect than Bush, in the form of Adrian Peterson. But, hey, that's just my opinion.:)

thunderkyss
04-23-2006, 01:39 PM
Does this argument make Babin a better NFL DE than MWilliams? or TWade a better NFL OT than DFerguson?

There will always be a chance of pulling a TMandarich or Akili Smith, but Bush sure looks like the real thing to me .... :twocents:

Has Babin played DE yet in the NFL??

I think TWade is being called a poor NFL OT by most standards, by most people on this board.

No doubt.... Reggie looks exciting...... easy to imagine him being productive in the NFL.... But how much better than existing Talent??

Better than LT?? Better than Ronnie Brown?? I've covered that.... DD's Rookie year put's him smack dab in the middle of those two.

Better than Tiki?? Edge?? Alexander?? I've covered those as well. DD started as many games as these injury proned running backs..... has total yards comparable to all of them....

DD ranked 19th his rookie year.... 15th his second year, and 9th his third season, on a 2-14 team....... I believe we have every reason to believe DD will be a top 5 back in 2006..... why mess that up?? If you're not going to draft Vince because it will be detrimental to the development of David Carr, I think the same respect should be shown to DD.

If you had a top 5 back on your team, would you draft Reggie Bush??