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View Full Version : Davis, Bush, or Both..can we keep both?


jmerog
04-21-2006, 07:16 PM
Davis, Bush, or both..? Realistically..considering that we just sighned Dom to a hefty contract last year and Reggie wanting #1 $$$, is there any way we could carry both over more than a single season. I just Love the idea of having both in the backfield combined with all of our other weapons and the nightmares it would cause d-coord's... but is that do-able ? If not then does it make more sense to trade down and get picks and keep Davis or get bush and build dom's stock to trade him next year?

For the purposes of this thread VINCE YOUNG DOES NOT EXIST

its not a slam to young or an endorsement of bush, its just not the scenario under inquiry in this thread.

Bobo
04-21-2006, 07:26 PM
Davis, Bush, or both..? Realistically..considering that we just sighned Dom to a hefty contract last year and Reggie wanting #1 $$$, is there any way we could carry both over more than a single season. I just Love the idea of having both in the backfield combined with all of our other weapons and the nightmares it would cause d-coord's... but is that do-able ? If not then does it make more sense to trade down and get picks and keep Davis or get bush and build dom's stock to trade him next year?

For the purposes of this thread VINCE YOUNG DOES NOT EXIST

its not a slam to young or an endorsement of bush, its just not the scenario under inquiry in this thread.

With the status of the offensive line, the opposing defensive coordinators will be smacking their lips. Before Carr even gets the ball, they'll be all over him. And then the chorus will be "Get rid of Carr!" as though he was the problem.

outofhnd
04-21-2006, 07:32 PM
We keep both, Look at the broncos they use running backs in a rotation there really wasnt a majority ball carrier for them. also, the knock on DD has always been he isnt a homerun threat. With Bush you are getting a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball. DD would be our change of pace to pick up 10 yard chunks and wear down the defense with his consistent attack.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 07:33 PM
Perhaps you have failed to notice that we have already improved the line with a probowl center, a playoff caliber tight end, new coaching by proven winners(kubes, sherman), a new system proven to be effective, and we still have the draft to go which will likely get us at least one more starting caliber o-lineman.with Flannigan at center, its like we improved two spots at once since Mckinny can now move to guard where he accually excells.

CoachJim
04-21-2006, 07:34 PM
With the status of the offensive line, the opposing defensive coordinators will be smacking their lips. Before Carr even gets the ball, they'll be all over him. And then the chorus will be "Get rid of Carr!" as though he was the problem.

And this has what to do with DD & RB both being on this team past this upcoming season?

jmerog
04-21-2006, 07:34 PM
my last post was in response to bobo. i forgot to quote.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 07:38 PM
We keep both, Look at the broncos they use running backs in a rotation there really wasnt a majority ball carrier for them. also, the knock on DD has always been he isnt a homerun threat. With Bush you are getting a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball. DD would be our change of pace to pick up 10 yard chunks and wear down the defense with his consistent attack.


i see it the same way, i would love to keep both. it would be a beautiful thing. i'm wondering if we can afford it money wise? what did denver pay Bell and anderson? do you know? i'll hafta find out now i suppose.

Bobo
04-21-2006, 07:45 PM
Perhaps you have failed to notice that we have already improved the line with a probowl center, a playoff caliber tight end, new coaching by proven winners(kubes, sherman), a new system proven to be effective, and we still have the draft to go which will likely get us at least one more starting caliber o-lineman.with Flannigan at center, its like we improved two spots at once since Mckinny can now move to guard where he accually excells.

HUH? Flanagan has a history of injuries and Putzier is NOT a blocking TE! Kubiak has never been an NFL head coach before and Sherman was fired from GB. The Texans need a heckuva lot of help in the OL and defense in general. And folks on this board have already said that you can't expect McKinney to improve a lot just by teaching him a different dance.

Bobo
04-21-2006, 07:47 PM
We keep both, Look at the broncos they use running backs in a rotation there really wasnt a majority ball carrier for them. also, the knock on DD has always been he isnt a homerun threat. With Bush you are getting a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball. DD would be our change of pace to pick up 10 yard chunks and wear down the defense with his consistent attack.

Yeah, that's right. Draft a RB #1 and make him a part-time player by putting him in a rotation and pull a RBBC. Meanwhile, make the real problems of this team lower on the priority list so you can pay a bunch of money to somebody who will be a part-time player. Sounds real good to me.

outofhnd
04-21-2006, 08:08 PM
Hey Bobo I disagree maybe with an actual offensive line blocking scheme and set positions for our line man we improve greatly. You cant fix a sinking ship by constantly plugging the whole with bubblegum, That was what happened for our line when boselli retired not ever playing a down for us he pretty much caused a ripple effect that lasted 5 years.

We plugged that hole with bubble gum (chester Pitts in 02 &03, Seth wand in 04, Victor Riley, Wand, Pitts 05) Then Instead of picking up a true center we thought we could change a guard into one (another buble gum fix) Along the way we thought we could solidify the right side with todd wade then when that leak sprouted we tried Wiegart, Riley and wade. Bubble gum fix 3 Also along the way we picked up a Huge blocking TE in Bruener because our franchise TE joppru has yet to pan out another bubble gum fix because he lost his ability to get open and catch.. which limited carrs options) Then there was the switch from man to zone blocking schemes (yet another bubblegum fix that did not fair, then we fire the OC and make Pendry the OC another bubble gum fix...

Kubiak and Co have taken the sunking ship out of the water drawn up plans and started getting the tools needed to fix the leaks.

Tool #1 Bring the Denver Offense gives the QB some leway and mobility to notbe in the pocket so there can be some ad libs on a busted play.

Tool #2 Bringing in a True veteran center that understands the offense and the calls on the line.

Tool #3 Bringing in a rec tight end to complement Brueners blocking ability another option for carr to get the ball too if he is in trouble

Tool #4 Bringing in another top tier WR to lineup with AJ to prohibit defenses from taking AJ out of the offense.

After the draft we will see what other tools we have to help us.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 08:47 PM
HUH? Flanagan has a history of injuries and Putzier is NOT a blocking TE! Kubiak has never been an NFL head coach before and Sherman was fired from GB. The Texans need a heckuva lot of help in the OL and defense in general. And folks on this board have already said that you can't expect McKinney to improve a lot just by teaching him a different dance.
Your response shows that you are not capable of understanding a real rebuttal. if someone else has a similer response (which i doubt), perhaps i will take the time to hold your hand and walk you through it.

on second thought, Outofhnd already walked you through part of it ( and a simple bit too) and you didn't understand so i will not bother explaining any further (to you that is). If another wants to challange then i will be happy to discuss it. I'm sure you will respond will your ussual ranting garbage but i have put you on ignore and will not have to see it.

jdog
04-21-2006, 09:32 PM
I know that you are asking if we can afford both in a different sense, but I do not think the Texans can afford both backs without affecting other areas of the team. There are several areas of need, and the running back position would be very low on my list.

If we can afford to have both, we really can not afford to have so much money in one position. If the two running backs had different, complementary styles we still could not afford it, but these two are similar backs even if Bush is better.

On the other hand, can we afford to miss out on a unique talent like Bush? If you had the opportunity to draft Barry Sanders would you trade down for an offensive lineman? What if Reggie Bush is injured? What if he goes Ricky Williams on us?

Although you are discussing a different type of cost, I think the cost of drafting Reggie Bush is too high in terms of opportunity cost. Good teams are not made by ignoring team needs in order to draft great players, otherwise, the Detroit Lions and Arizona Cardinals would rock.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 09:45 PM
great post. definatly food for thought. I started out solidly in the trade down camp but after watching alot of film of Reggie, I am now truely conflicted. He is amazing. I agree with you that we have alot of needs to address and trading down would do more to help fill needs but still- theres the 'what if this guy is the next phenom' factor too.

What if we used the first on reggie,#33 on Mcneil, and the rest on defense?

i know- it would be nice to get more linemen but... 2 1000yd rushers in the backfield who can also catch is attractive. too bad we couldn't do some extreme swapping and still end up with reggie and extra picks besides.

what the heck-while i'm wishing-maybe indy and tenn. will give us all thier picks for pbuc and wong. lol :)

tex
04-21-2006, 10:04 PM
What if Reggie Bush is injured?
What if whoever the Texans draft gets injured? Isn't that a gamble ever team takes when drafting a player?

jdog
04-21-2006, 10:12 PM
What if whoever the Texans draft gets injured? Isn't that a gamble ever team takes when drafting a player?

Yes. However, if we trade down we receive more than one pick in return, and each of these picks is less expensive.

jdog
04-21-2006, 10:16 PM
great post. definatly food for thought. I started out solidly in the trade down camp but after watching alot of film of Reggie, I am now truely conflicted. He is amazing. I agree with you that we have alot of needs to address and trading down would do more to help fill needs but still- theres the 'what if this guy is the next phenom' factor too.

What if we used the first on reggie,#33 on Mcneil, and the rest on defense?

i know- it would be nice to get more linemen but... 2 1000yd rushers in the backfield who can also catch is attractive. too bad we couldn't do some extreme swapping and still end up with reggie and extra picks besides.

what the heck-while i'm wishing-maybe indy and tenn. will give us all thier picks for pbuc and wong. lol :)

I'm conflicted too. It's a good thing they are making this decision. :brickwall

Caesar
04-21-2006, 10:22 PM
Perhaps you have failed to notice that we have already improved the line with a probowl center
Unfortunately, there are five positions on the offensive line, and we've upgraded only one of them.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 10:45 PM
Unfortunately, there are five positions on the offensive line, and we've upgraded only one of them.
Not exactly, by putting Flannegan at center it allows mckinney to move to guerd which is his natural position and one he is accually good at. It's really a two for one kind of deal. Also, we'll likely pick up at least one more in the draft. thats 3 positions. all of that together with the denver blocking scheme will greatly improve the line because they wont be able to 'send the house'.

Now with a legit #2, a pass catching tight end, DD,AJ and possably Bush- the defense will pay if they try to rush all of the time.

All we need now is a defense of our own.lets hope

Seņor Stan
04-21-2006, 10:47 PM
Unfortunately, there are five positions on the offensive line, and we've upgraded only one of them.

Mckinney to guard is an upgrade.

Also that draft thing is coming up in a week or so. And then June cuts.

We're not even half way through the off season yet.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 10:49 PM
Mckinney to guard is an upgrade.

Also that draft thing is coming up in a week or so. And then June cuts.

We're not even half way through the off season yet.
we must have been writing at the same time

Caesar
04-21-2006, 10:56 PM
Also that draft thing is coming up in a week or so. And then June cuts.
Unfortunately, it's rare that you find a rookie that can come in and make an immediate impact. Ferguson is the type of player who could do that, but we're apparently going to take another RB instead, so that looks to be out.

Thankfully, they do have time to address the OL situation, and if Casserly is gone after the draft, it just might happen. It just makes me nervous that the pitiful OL that has plagued us since the beginning once again seems to be a virtual non-priority to this organization. Cornerback too for that matter, but that's another issue.

Frank_The_Tank
04-22-2006, 12:56 AM
IF, and thats a big IF, they pick Reggie Bush, this will be the last season we see Domanick Davis in a Texans uniform. Domanick is going to put up with that crap, he'll be playing in another uniform no questions asked. 15 carries a game for him, and 15 for Bush, no way no how. It would also be to expensive to keep them both on the roster after we pay tat huge salary to Bush IF we take him. It is sad to see Domanick Davis go, I really liked the guy.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-22-2006, 02:38 AM
IF, and thats a big IF, they pick Reggie Bush, this will be the last season we see Domanick Davis in a Texans uniform. Domanick is going to put up with that crap, he'll be playing in another uniform no questions asked. 15 carries a game for him, and 15 for Bush, no way no how. It would also be to expensive to keep them both on the roster after we pay tat huge salary to Bush IF we take him. It is sad to see Domanick Davis go, I really liked the guy.
I too see a similar scenario. But I don't see it like DD isn't getting enough playing time or crap like you mentioned. I think adding Bush will help DD's longevity in the NFL.

The way I see it is if Bush & Morency can prove they can play this coming season, DD could become a trading bait for other teams in need of RB. (of course Morency has to get some carries to prove it)

The reason I'm saying DD could become a trading bait next year is like you mentioned a lots of money in one position, Bush and Morency may able to fill the needs at RB position and one year under Kubiak & Co. able them to find out our weakness by position/s.

Don't get me wrong, I really like DD and would not prefer him to go elsewhere. But if we manage to win 7~9 this coming year and a few more holes to be filled to become a playoff caliber team, wouldn't this make DD is likely candidate as a trade bait for a draft pick/s or veteran player/s or combination of both that can fill our needs? I may be saying something stupid and may never happen but. How ya'll think about this?

Waltman
04-22-2006, 08:44 AM
I have faith in you Kube. :yahoo:

Vinny
04-22-2006, 11:47 AM
IF, and thats a big IF, they pick Reggie Bush, this will be the last season we see Domanick Davis in a Texans uniform. Domanick is going to put up with that crap, he'll be playing in another uniform no questions asked. 15 carries a game for him, and 15 for Bush, no way no how. It would also be to expensive to keep them both on the roster after we pay tat huge salary to Bush IF we take him. It is sad to see Domanick Davis go, I really liked the guy.
Davis isn't going anywhere this year. I think this will be his last year though. Bush has to have another back to share the load since he isn't a pure RB in the NFL, so in the coming years we probably churn thru 4th round picks to accompany Bush like Denver does with their drafts each year.

Jwwillis
04-22-2006, 12:48 PM
Say the Texans get Bush. Imagine this line up. Johnson,Moulds,Mathis at WR, DD and Bush split back (T) formation and Putizer at TE and of course Carr at QB. Do you really think D's are going to pin their ears back and rush on evey down like last year? I hope they try. DD isnt going to pout about playing time, he gets paid the same either way. DD wants the team to win and will do whatever the coach asks to that end. As far as trade bait, DD's salary may be an issue.

swtbound07
04-22-2006, 01:08 PM
Say the Texans get Bush. Imagine this line up. Johnson,Moulds,Mathis at WR, DD and Bush split back (T) formation and Putizer at TE and of course Carr at QB. Do you really think D's are going to pin their ears back and rush on evey down like last year? I hope they try. DD isnt going to pout about playing time, he gets paid the same either way. DD wants the team to win and will do whatever the coach asks to that end. As far as trade bait, DD's salary may be an issue.

Bull. Football players are creatures of ego. If you dont think DD loves being the main guy here, and wants every touch he can get, then your sadly mistaken. Nobody wants somebody to come in and be handed half their job. DD will leave and go somewhere where he can prove that he can be the main guy without reggie

Double Barrel
04-22-2006, 01:34 PM
Honestly, I'm not 100% convinced that DD or RB can be 30+ carry per game backs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Davis been injured each of his three seasons at some point? And Bush has yet to play a down in the NFL, so the jury can't form any opinion until we actually see him in action.

I think there will be enough room for both players in the 2006 season, but yeah, I agree that he'll probably be gone in 2007 if we end up picking Bush.

Vinny
04-22-2006, 01:45 PM
Honestly, I'm not 100% convinced that DD or RB can be 30+ carry per game backs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Davis been injured each of his three seasons at some point? And Bush has yet to play a down in the NFL, so the jury can't form any opinion until we actually see him in action.

I think there will be enough room for both players in the 2006 season, but yeah, I agree that he'll probably be gone in 2007 if we end up picking Bush.
who is a 30+ carry back in todays NFL?

tsip
04-22-2006, 02:01 PM
who is a 30+ carry back in todays NFL?

To add to this thought, I believe the NFL is getting away from the one dominant back 'concept' for several reasons--having a 'fresher' rusher for late in the game and minimizing the injury likihood are 2 of those reasons.

We had 3 effective RB's last year (previous yrs,too) that--if played correctly--probally could have minimized/prevented DD's injuries. Unfortunately, we had a HC that belonged to the 'play one till he drops' club.