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Avenged Sevenfold Texan
04-21-2006, 02:11 PM
Just figured I would bust some chops and be a homer like all the other VY enthusiast. I say Andre Ware would have been a Hall of Famer if he was drafted by any other organization other than Detroit. Hey he did win the Heisman(spell checked by swtbound07 get your software at your local draft VY supporter ;)), he is from Houston. He had tremendous passing stats. He could even announce games if he needed to. :spy:

Anyway please no more VY talk. He will not be drafted by the Texans. Outside of Houston he is not even the best QB. I'll get off my soap box. Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.

More like trade down, draft Reggie, or Mario. VY doesn't even come into the equation for the Texans to draft.


If you don't want to be a Texan fan if we don't draft VY, you were never a Texan fan to start with. So go hop on another bandwagon.:twocents:

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 02:13 PM
hmm, much like ware, young played in an offense that made him look better than he really is.

Tale Gator
04-21-2006, 02:13 PM
Actually, Andre won the Heisman.

hollywood_texan
04-21-2006, 02:17 PM
I met Andre Ware at a business type conference. I don't think most people knew who he was.

I was really impressed, we talked at the conference and at the reception and carried on several conversations. Really a cool guy.

So lay off Andre, he went to Detriot of all places.

swtbound07
04-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Just figured I would bust some chops and be a homer like all the other VY enthusiast. I say Andre Ware would have been a Hall of Famer if he was drafted by any other organization other than Detroit. Hey he did win the Hiesman, he is from Houston. He had tremendous passing stats. He could even announce games if he needed to. :spy:

Anyway please no more VY talk. He will not be drafted by the Texans. Outside of Houston he is not even the best QB. I'll get off my soap box. Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.

More like trade down, draft Reggie, or Mario. VY doesn't even come into the equation for the Texans to draft.


If you don't want to be a Texan fan if we don't draft VY, you were never a Texan fan to start with. So go hop on another bandwagon.:twocents:

Brief points to address, I have to get back to the abortion thread
1) You dont know who will be drafted, no reason to criticize anothers opinion
2)Not all vince fans are UT homers (has been proven ad nauseum)
3)I hear more Bush fans saying they wont support the texans organization if they dont get their guy as vince fans....I was here before the draft, and i'll be here after.
4) If your going to put bold print on the word "heisman", spell it properly. Hows that for busting somebodys chops?

Mike Kerns
04-21-2006, 02:25 PM
Can't we just accept that if you are Pro VY you will be called a UT homer & If you are Pro Reggie you will be labeled as "buying into the ESPN Hype"

swtbound07
04-21-2006, 02:41 PM
Not VY. I guarantee it. I will eat my crow if they do draft him.

Its an awfull lot to ask people to stop discussing a prospect based on YOUR guarantee, isnt it?

Porky
04-21-2006, 02:52 PM
Andre Ware was a bust? No way. How could this happen? He is from beautiful downtown Houston. All hail Houston QB's. They never fail in the NFL, everyone knows that. :spy:

Tale Gator
04-21-2006, 02:54 PM
Brief points to address, I have to get back to the abortion thread

Shouldn't it be the other way around...

"Enough of this abortion talk, I need to get back to the NFL Draft discussion."

:hmmm:

Mr. White
04-21-2006, 03:20 PM
Anyway please no more VY talk. He will not be drafted by the Texans. Outside of Houston he is not even the best QB. I'll get off my soap box. Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.

Sure, I'm tired of the VY vs. RB talk. VY ai't coming here. Let's move on.


More like trade down, draft Reggie, or Mario. VY doesn't even come into the equation for the Texans to draft.
If you don't want to be a Texan fan if we don't draft VY, you were never a Texan fan to start with. So go hop on another bandwagon.:twocents:


What? I thought you said no more VY talk. Then you talk about VY. Does the VY moratorium go into effect only after you get your shot off?

***edit***
Nothing personal, bro, just busting your chops.

Mr. White
04-21-2006, 03:28 PM
FWIW, Andre Ware won the Heisman before the institution of football figured out the run-and-shoot. I call it "the Great Run-n-Shoot Swindle."

UH was on probation that year and they were banned from TV. So the voters had never even seen the guy play. But they figured stats like that are inarguable....with numbers like that, you can't deny the guy.

I'm an Andre Ware fan and was bummed to see him not really produce on the next level.

Texans Horror
04-21-2006, 04:16 PM
Can we please stop posting about Michael Huff? I am getting sick and tired of it. We are NOT taking Michael Huff with the first pic, people. What a bunch of UT :homer: ...

:jk:

bkimble
04-21-2006, 07:42 PM
Just figured I would bust some chops and be a homer like all the other VY enthusiast. I say Andre Ware would have been a Hall of Famer if he was drafted by any other organization other than Detroit. Hey he did win the Heisman(spell checked by swtbound07 get your software at your local draft VY supporter ;)), he is from Houston. He had tremendous passing stats. He could even announce games if he needed to. :spy:

Anyway please no more VY talk. He will not be drafted by the Texans. Outside of Houston he is not even the best QB. I'll get off my soap box. Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.

More like trade down, draft Reggie, or Mario. VY doesn't even come into the equation for the Texans to draft.


If you don't want to be a Texan fan if we don't draft VY, you were never a Texan fan to start with. So go hop on another bandwagon.:twocents:

Look dude, Bush will be a bust just like Ware was. Bush is nothing more than hype. He wasn't even the best back on his own team. Go check history very few Heisman winners have been successful in the NFL in the last 15 years. And I don't see Bush being any difference. The bottomline is this, Bush is just a part-time slot back that will get crushed in the NFL. If you think Bush is going to be able to carry the ball 25 times a game in the NFL than you're fooling yourself. He never did that in college. So, why do you think he could do it now? You clowns talk about this guy like he is a stud or the second coming of Eric Dickerson, Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders, Bush only started 2 years at USC. Mark my word, the Texans are making the biggest mistake. I know you can't get past the hype, but I can't wait for Vince to come back to H-town and run all over the Texans. Look don't take my word go review the Rose Bowl tape Vince ran all over your USC and your beloved Bush. Its funny how history has way of repeating it's self.

texplayer2
04-21-2006, 07:58 PM
Look dude, Bush will be a bust just like Ware was. Bush is nothing more than hype. He wasn't even the best back on his own team. Go check history very few Heisman winners have been successful in the NFL in the last 15 years. And I don't see Bush being any difference. The bottomline is this, Bush is just a part-time slot back that will get crushed in the NFL. If you think Bush is going to be able to carry the ball 25 times a game in the NFL than you're fooling yourself. He never did that in college. So, why do you think he could do it now? You clowns talk about this guy like he is a stud or the second coming of Eric Dickerson, Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders, Bush only started 2 years at USC. Mark my word, the Texans are making the biggest mistake. I know you can't get past the hype, but I can't wait for Vince to come back to H-town and run all over the Texans. Look don't take my words go review the Rose Bowl tape Vince ran all over your USC and your beloved Bush. Its funny how history has way of repeating it's self.

:deadhorse :rolleyes: Another person that just watched the Rose Bowl. 8 more days......

Huge
04-21-2006, 09:48 PM
Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.
So a simple solution to this is the start another thread on the topic.

Brilliant.

Caesar
04-21-2006, 10:43 PM
hmm, much like ware, young played in an offense that made him look better than he really is.
Wow, if an offensive scheme can allow a mediocre player to run and pass all over every defense he faces like they're standing still, it's a wonder more teams don't run that offense.

And let's face it, Vince didn't get his reputation by throwing TD's with 15 seconds left to put up 70 points on SWC teams. He was so dominant that he didn't even have to play in the second half of most games, and earned his rep in part by beating the #4 team in the nation on the road and winning the national title by owning the "greatest team of all time".

BTW, did Ware have a national championship, or even a SWC championship? Didn't think so.

Big B Texan Fan
04-22-2006, 10:15 PM
Wow, if an offensive scheme can allow a mediocre player to run and pass all over every defense he faces like they're standing still, it's a wonder more teams don't run that offense.

And let's face it, Vince didn't get his reputation by throwing TD's with 15 seconds left to put up 70 points on SWC teams. He was so dominant that he didn't even have to play in the second half of most games, and earned his rep in part by beating the #4 team in the nation on the road and winning the national title by owning the "greatest team of all time".

BTW, did Ware have a national championship, or even a SWC championship? Didn't think so.
WORD!!!

thunderkyss
04-22-2006, 10:44 PM
Just figured I would bust some chops and be a homer like all the other VY enthusiast. I say Andre Ware would have been a Hall of Famer if he was drafted by any other organization other than Detroit. Hey he did win the Heisman(spell checked by swtbound07 get your software at your local draft VY supporter ;)), he is from Houston. He had tremendous passing stats. He could even announce games if he needed to. :spy:

Anyway please no more VY talk. He will not be drafted by the Texans. Outside of Houston he is not even the best QB. I'll get off my soap box. Just tired of all the Reggie vs. VY debate when there isn't even one.

More like trade down, draft Reggie, or Mario. VY doesn't even come into the equation for the Texans to draft.


If you don't want to be a Texan fan if we don't draft VY, you were never a Texan fan to start with. So go hop on another bandwagon.:twocents:


you're right..... the Houston Texans aren't taking Vince Young with the #1 overall selection in the 2006 NFL draft. They will draft Reggie Bush, unless he thinks he is worth more than the Texans believe him to be worth.

But If I were the Houston Texans, I'd definitely consider drafting Vince Young. As a matter of fact, I would more than likely draft Vince... for one... this best quarterback available thing.....

Lets see..... the Titans want Vince.... the Raiders want Vince...... the Cardinals want Vince......... Green Bay want Vince, and I believe Denver wants Vince.

Matt Leinart...... who you probably think is the best QB in the draft(more than likely because you've been bathing in the ESPN kool-aide) will more than likely be the third QB selected.

Secondly, in a perfect world, where people do the things they should do.... It would be nice to put a probowler at 7 out of 11 positions, so that David Carr can find success in the NFL, But imagine offering the Jets David Carr, and Reggie Bush for Vince Young and all their draft choices.......

Okay, that won't happen..... Tennesee will take Vince with the 3rd pick in the draft.

But lets look at it another way.... what can we honestly expect from Reggie his rookie year?? 1600 total yards, 12 TDs??

Well, in 2004, when David played a played well, DD did exactly that.... minus 300 yards, plus one TD....

If Kubiak does his thing, there is no reason to believe DD wouldn't improve on those numbers, his 4th year in the NFL, since he has improved every year. 19th amoung all NFL running backs in 2003.... 15th in 2004, and 9th in 2005. Expect him to be in the top 5 in 2006.

Now, add Reggie Bush into the mix..... scratch all that. Total production between he and DD, might net 2-5 more touchdowns...... yardage doesn't really matter here... even if total rushing/recieving yards for the pair increase by 900 yards, I can't see the two of them getting more than 20 TDs..... where I think DD alone in Kubiaks system will get 16. & that's being conservative considering he had 13 in 2004 with Capers and crew.

So you're saying we should draft Reggie Bush for 5 touchdowns a year??

That's nothing....... almost nothing.

If I draft Vince... sit him on the bench..... for eight games. David Carr either performs or Vince will start his training week 9. All Vince has to do, is throw/run for 5 touchdowns, in 8 games, and I break even.

thunderkyss
04-22-2006, 10:46 PM
Well there isn't really a debate for the Texans to draft VY that was my point. Don't get me wrong. I like VY just tired of all the "draft VY and he will lead the Texans to 5 straight SB's".

I wish VY luck wherever he goes.


Find two posts like that posted in the last week......

texplayer2
04-23-2006, 01:25 AM
you're right..... the Houston Texans aren't taking Vince Young with the #1 overall selection in the 2006 NFL draft. They will draft Reggie Bush, unless he thinks he is worth more than the Texans believe him to be worth.

But If I were the Houston Texans, I'd definitely consider drafting Vince Young. As a matter of fact, I would more than likely draft Vince... for one... this best quarterback available thing.....

Lets see..... the Titans want Vince.... the Raiders want Vince...... the Cardinals want Vince......... Green Bay want Vince, and I believe Denver wants Vince.

Matt Leinart...... who you probably think is the best QB in the draft(more than likely because you've been bathing in the ESPN kool-aide) will more than likely be the third QB selected.

Secondly, in a perfect world, where people do the things they should do.... It would be nice to put a probowler at 7 out of 11 positions, so that David Carr can find success in the NFL, But imagine offering the Jets David Carr, and Reggie Bush for Vince Young and all their draft choices.......

Okay, that won't happen..... Tennesee will take Vince with the 3rd pick in the draft.

But lets look at it another way.... what can we honestly expect from Reggie his rookie year?? 1600 total yards, 12 TDs??

Well, in 2004, when David played a played well, DD did exactly that.... minus 300 yards, plus one TD....

If Kubiak does his thing, there is no reason to believe DD wouldn't improve on those numbers, his 4th year in the NFL, since he has improved every year. 19th amoung all NFL running backs in 2003.... 15th in 2004, and 9th in 2005. Expect him to be in the top 5 in 2006.

Now, add Reggie Bush into the mix..... scratch all that. Total production between he and DD, might net 2-5 more touchdowns...... yardage doesn't really matter here... even if total rushing/recieving yards for the pair increase by 900 yards, I can't see the two of them getting more than 20 TDs..... where I think DD alone in Kubiaks system will get 16. & that's being conservative considering he had 13 in 2004 with Capers and crew.

So you're saying we should draft Reggie Bush for 5 touchdowns a year??

That's nothing....... almost nothing.

If I draft Vince... sit him on the bench..... for eight games. David Carr either performs or Vince will start his training week 9. All Vince has to do, is throw/run for 5 touchdowns, in 8 games, and I break even.

Reggie will start contributing from day one and not only get a few touchdowns himself, but will help AJ,DC,EM, and DD get a few more. You are suggesting Vince takeover in week nine and start becoming a one man show again? Where ever Vince does land they better get him an offense around him, because the one man show approach will not translate to the Pros. The Comparison would have to be how many more TDs Carr will be able to engineer with the help of Bush vs. what Vince might be able to squeeze out of defensive mistakes without the extra option and in fewer games. (Team sport...Draft for the team aspect, not for individual stardom)

Frank_The_Tank
04-23-2006, 01:30 AM
Another Bash Young thread, man Bush-Bandwagon guys cant get enough. You guys are psycho.

Tha_Tinman
04-23-2006, 03:00 AM
hmm, much like ware, young played in an offense that made him look better than he really is.


That sounds like good coaching to me. If I was a coach, I'd sure put that on my resume.

I can design an offense that makes the kids look better than they are. I even had a kid win the Heisman! :twocents:

MikeMc
04-23-2006, 08:23 AM
Actually, Andre Ware was from Dickinson, about halfway between Houston and Galveston down I-45.

I think the fact that the Oilers did not draft him (hey, they ran the RnS as well), is more like the Rockets not drafting Rashard Lewis with one of their 3 draft picks (oh BTW, after promising him they would).

Don't think NFL teams do not give into the hype...they simply label the player with having "upside". LMAO!

Kaiser Toro
04-23-2006, 08:30 AM
Actually, Andre Ware was from Dickinson, about halfway between Houston and Galveston down I-45.

I think the fact that the Oilers did not draft him (hey, they ran the RnS as well), is more like the Rockets not drafting Rashard Lewis with one of their 3 draft picks (oh BTW, after promising him they would).

Don't think NFL teams do not give into the hype...they simply label the player with having "upside". LMAO!

Lions had the 7th pick, the Oilers had the 15th.

MikeMc
04-23-2006, 08:42 AM
Oilers could have traded up! (Ware was taken #7 - Lions, Lathon was taken #14 - Oilers).

What a day for the Coogs...5 drafted on day 1! Alton Montgomery (Denver - 2nd rd), Alfred Ogelsby (Miami - 3rd rd), and Craig Veasey (PIT - 3rd rd).

thunderkyss
04-23-2006, 12:48 PM
Reggie will start contributing from day one and not only get a few touchdowns himself, but will help AJ,DC,EM, and DD get a few more. You are suggesting Vince takeover in week nine and start becoming a one man show again? Where ever Vince does land they better get him an offense around him, because the one man show approach will not translate to the Pros. The Comparison would have to be how many more TDs Carr will be able to engineer with the help of Bush vs. what Vince might be able to squeeze out of defensive mistakes without the extra option and in fewer games. (Team sport...Draft for the team aspect, not for individual stardom)

If Carr's getting it done, then Vince won't play till year two.... depending on how well Carr does, it might be late in year 2.

My Point is without Reggie Bush, we've already got a pretty potent offense..... Kubiak's running game, should help DD to a breakout year..... much like Terrell Davis' Breakout year. I don't think he'll have 2000 total rushing yards, but I do expect 2000 total.

Yes, he will stay healthy, if our offensive line does their job, and get him into the secondary untouched..... if our fullback does his job, and take out the first linebaker.... & with the still legal cutblock, there will be fewer DLinemen to catch him after 50 yards.. & with Morency getting the 10 carries a game you guys are slotting for Reggie, DD will have a very good year.

With this run game, although DD doesn't create a true mismatch, defenses will have to respect our run game. Even if they don't put 8 men in the box.. with 6 men playing the line of scrimmage, there are only 5 men to watch AJ, Moulds, Putz, and Mathis. Only one of those 4 can be double teamed......
Imagine Reggie Bush in this lineup..... We can use him to replace Putz..... well, Putz is a bigger target, with WR speed...... I don't know if I want to take Putz out of the game.....
We can use him to replace Mathis..... well, Mathis is faster, so I don't think we want to take Mathis out.... It would be stupid, to think we would replace either of our 2 proBowl recievers with Reggie.....
So what is it exactly that Reggie will give us that we don't already have?? The ability to score from the 80 out of the backfield?? While it might be nice to have, I don't believe we should use the #1 overall to fill that need. Heck, we can run a reverse with AJ, or Mathis.
That, and the fact that Reggie will actualy take away from(rather than add) from the games of our ProBowlers, our tight end, and our developing WRs.. don't forget we also signed Keven Walter.

If we can keep David Carr on his feet, our run game is enough, more than enough, to open the game up for the offensive talent we have... with or without Reggie Bush, we will have 4 proBowlers on the offensive line. 2 as Widerecievers, on every down, and another to put in the slot.

how much more, is Reggie Bush going to open up the field for these guys??

Let's say we've got AJ, Moulds, Mathis, Cook, and Reggie in the backfield..... if I'm a DC, I'm going Nickel everytime I see Reggie... 2 deep, man under coverage. Reggie's going to have to run it up the middle, and my Safeties will make him pay. If he motions out as a 4th reciever, I've got a DB to cover him.... if I'm the Cowboys, that's either T.Newman, or Aaron Glenn..... I think I'm in pretty good shape. I've got corners playing AJ & Moulds man coverage. I've got a corner on Bush, 1 deep safety, Keith Davis, or Marcus Coleman will have to play over the top of Mathis........... I've still got Chris Canty, Marcus Spears, D'Marco Ware, & Ferguson, to go after Carr. Then two LBs, to play underneath in the middle, or cover the TE/FB, or to be the fifth man to go get Carr...... with my 2 deep safeties, I can Jam Reggie/Mathis at the line. Send that defender on the Blitz to get Carr, still with a LB under, and a Safety over the top. No big deal, I've still got good coverage, and good pressure.

MorKnolle
04-23-2006, 06:14 PM
If Carr's getting it done, then Vince won't play till year two.... depending on how well Carr does, it might be late in year 2.

If Carr is getting it done then there is no reason to have Vince at all.

My Point is without Reggie Bush, we've already got a pretty potent offense..... Kubiak's running game, should help DD to a breakout year..... much like Terrell Davis' Breakout year. I don't think he'll have 2000 total rushing yards, but I do expect 2000 total.

We already have a pretty potent offense without Vince Young, what does him sitting on the bench for two years do to change that?

Yes, he will stay healthy, if our offensive line does their job, and get him into the secondary untouched..... if our fullback does his job, and take out the first linebaker.... & with the still legal cutblock, there will be fewer DLinemen to catch him after 50 yards.. & with Morency getting the 10 carries a game you guys are slotting for Reggie, DD will have a very good year.

Sounds like a lot of ifs in there. With Davis teams can more easily stack the box because they know he isn't going to break away from anyone, so they can concentrate on getting him close to the line of scrimmage. Bush is not slotted to only get 10 carries per game, if the Texans take him with the #1 pick they plan on giving him the ball 15-18 times a game on runs, and Domanick will get about 10 carries per game. Davis' knees will not hold up to getting more than 15-18 carries per game at best, especially taking the kind of beating that he has taken so far and being counted on to be our main RB.

With this run game, although DD doesn't create a true mismatch, defenses will have to respect our run game. Even if they don't put 8 men in the box.. with 6 men playing the line of scrimmage, there are only 5 men to watch AJ, Moulds, Putz, and Mathis. Only one of those 4 can be double teamed......
Imagine Reggie Bush in this lineup..... We can use him to replace Putz..... well, Putz is a bigger target, with WR speed...... I don't know if I want to take Putz out of the game.....
We can use him to replace Mathis..... well, Mathis is faster, so I don't think we want to take Mathis out.... It would be stupid, to think we would replace either of our 2 proBowl recievers with Reggie.....
So what is it exactly that Reggie will give us that we don't already have?? The ability to score from the 80 out of the backfield?? While it might be nice to have, I don't believe we should use the #1 overall to fill that need. Heck, we can run a reverse with AJ, or Mathis.

Bush adds another dimension to the game. You can put Reggie in there for Putzier on some formations, that gives us Andre, Mathis, and Reggie, along with Moulds, what team is going to have three guys that have the speed to keep up with them? Jerome Mathis has not shown the ability to be a reliable receiver yet either, so for now Bush would be a better receiver than Mathis and for most 3 WR formations we would have Andre, Moulds, and Kevin Walters in the game, so Bush is definitely an upgrade at speed over Walters. Running a reverse with Andre and Mathis is far from being the same thing as having a 4.33 RB in the backfield, plus putting Reggie out on the field means you need a fast DB to keep up with him, so even with him in the backfield that takes a LB off the field and puts a CB out there, which will help the running game.

That, and the fact that Reggie will actualy take away from(rather than add) from the games of our ProBowlers, our tight end, and our developing WRs.. don't forget we also signed Keven Walter.

How exactly did you come to this conclusion?

If we can keep David Carr on his feet, our run game is enough, more than enough, to open the game up for the offensive talent we have... with or without Reggie Bush, we will have 4 proBowlers on the offensive line. 2 as Widerecievers, on every down, and another to put in the slot.

And Vince Young adds what to this offense?

how much more, is Reggie Bush going to open up the field for these guys??

Let's say we've got AJ, Moulds, Mathis, Cook, and Reggie in the backfield..... if I'm a DC, I'm going Nickel everytime I see Reggie... 2 deep, man under coverage. Reggie's going to have to run it up the middle, and my Safeties will make him pay.

It's either a safety or that extra CB in the game to make Reggie "pay", or the same safety and an extra LB in the middle of the field to make Domanick Davis "pay" for running anywhere either. I'll take my chances with Reggie's elusiveness against a nickel formation than Domanick Davis against a regular 4-3 formation.

If he motions out as a 4th reciever, I've got a DB to cover him.... if I'm the Cowboys, that's either T.Newman, or Aaron Glenn..... I think I'm in pretty good shape. I've got corners playing AJ & Moulds man coverage. I've got a corner on Bush, 1 deep safety, Keith Davis, or Marcus Coleman will have to play over the top of Mathis........... I've still got Chris Canty, Marcus Spears, D'Marco Ware, & Ferguson, to go after Carr. Then two LBs, to play underneath in the middle, or cover the TE/FB, or to be the fifth man to go get Carr...... with my 2 deep safeties, I can Jam Reggie/Mathis at the line. Send that defender on the Blitz to get Carr, still with a LB under, and a Safety over the top. No big deal, I've still got good coverage, and good pressure.

OK, let's see here, you have CBs on Bush, Andre Johnson, and either Moulds or Mathis, then a safety having to cover the remaining guy between Mathis and Moulds, leaving one safety deep to cover the whole field and help out on AJ, Mathis, or Bush who all have the speed to beat a guy 1-on-1 going deep. Then you have 2 LBs to guard Putzier and Cook, and the 4 DLinemen rushing Carr, which our 5 OLinemen should be able to block long enough for Carr to find an open receiver. Or you could have Domanick Davis in there on most plays, meaning a LB can cover him so rather than them having to run a nickel all the time they can run their regular defense, so when we do run the ball our RB is having to get by 3 LBs rather than 2 LBs and that extra CB.

Bush creates matchup problems and adds a different dimension to an offense, and Denver's offense is perfectly suited for him. Yes our offense would be very functional without Bush, but he adds another serious threat in there, whereas adding a backup QB does nothing to improve our current offense, and Vince Young does not fit in Denver's offense as well as Bush does. If you want to pick the guy that will make the biggest impact for our team, then take Mario Williams, otherwise you take Bush if you're wanting the biggest impact for our offense.

Wolf
04-23-2006, 11:47 PM
Remember the Rocket?
by Keith Weiland
HoustonProFootball.com

Fifteen years ago is like ancient history for the NFL, where once-in-a-generation prospects seem to come around about once every five years. What with the fast pace of today’s league, looking back on the long-forgotten 1991 draft might help shed the 2006 draft in a little different light.

The Texans are holding the top pick in draft, and as such they are performing their due diligence, testing the trade down scenarios and holding up for consumption their apparent top two choices: USC running back Reggie Bush and North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams. Taking either would signal a significant change at the top from recent drafts. Should either Bush or Williams be selected as the top pick next week, that player will be the first non-quarterback taken number one overall since the 2000 draft; that is, more than an “NFL generation” ago.

These are talented players. Bush is the electrifying and mold-breaking prospect who seems capable of scoring every time he touches a football. Every place he goes nowadays must feel like walking into the “Cheers” bar for him because everyone knows his name. Williams is the prototype defensive lineman that toiled for far fewer accolades. NFL scouts though know just how important an elite defensive lineman is when it comes to building a championship team.

And NFL front offices know the first pick is also about the dollars, too. Nowadays, it is common for the team with the top selection in the draft to negotiate with potential draftees before making the pick. The Texans are likely to begin serious negotiations with their top prospects any day now. While Bush has denied he has opened negotiations demanding $30 million in guaranteed money, it still isn’t too far from what the top pick will actually receive.

Back to 1991. Back then, the top picks weren’t always signed on draft day. So at the top of the draft, the Cowboys were blazing a trail of sorts in talking pre-draft financials with another electrifying and mold-breaking prospect, one named Raghib “Rocket” Ismail. For those who didn’t follow the league three NFL generations ago, Ismail was, well in today’s terms, the shiznit. He starred at Notre Dame, which then was also the shiznit of college football, as Ismail helped the Irish win a National Championship during his tenure.

Ismail was atypical as an NFL prospect. Under six feet tall as a game-breaking receiver, he was probably better known for his game-breaking return ability. But he had speed, vision, and awesome natural athletic skills that could not be coached. There was no one like Ismail before him. He was truly unique.

Bush is also unique. He is not built like your typical NFL running back, stocky and strong. Bush’s game is built on his speed, vision, and his own set of awesome natural athletic skills. It is no coincidence then, like Ismail, Bush also succeeded as a returner in college.

Fifteen years ago, Ismail and his advisors knew he was worthy of the top pick of the draft, and they knew he deserved the dollars that went along with it. But just as today, NFL teams were hesitant to fork over that kind of cash for someone who didn’t play quarterback

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/scout/scout132.html

thunderkyss
04-23-2006, 11:49 PM
If Carr is getting it done then there is no reason to have Vince at all.
I don't think Carr can get it done for two years in a row. He's starting next year so we can take our time with Young, and get his trade value up....

We already have a pretty potent offense without Vince Young, what does him sitting on the bench for two years do to change that?
If we draft Reggie, we're not addressing a need. If we aren't going to be addressing a need anyway, whynot take the BPA...... a QB worthy of the #1 overall........ Vince.

Sounds like a lot of ifs in there. With Davis teams can more easily stack the box because they know he isn't going to break away from anyone, so they can concentrate on getting him close to the line of scrimmage. Bush is not slotted to only get 10 carries per game, if the Texans take him with the #1 pick they plan on giving him the ball 15-18 times a game on runs, and Domanick will get about 10 carries per game. Davis' knees will not hold up to getting more than 15-18 carries per game at best, especially taking the kind of beating that he has taken so far and being counted on to be our main RB.
speed wise, how fast was Emmitt Smith?? The only reason anyone will be catching DD near the line of scrimmage, is because someone isn't doing their job. Any time in the past, that you saw anyone weighing over 230lbs takling and hitting DD anywhere near the line of scrimmage, that meant someone didn't do their job. That is why those 5 guys are on our team.... they are not ther for the QB only. Another thing. If you saw DD getting stopped behind the line of scrimmage, someone got beat....

&, if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of ifs in Carrs future also.

Bush adds another dimension to the game. You can put Reggie in there for Putzier on some formations, that gives us Andre, Mathis, and Reggie, along with Moulds, what team is going to have three guys that have the speed to keep up with them? Jerome Mathis has not shown the ability to be a reliable receiver yet either, so for now Bush would be a better receiver than Mathis and for most 3 WR formations we would have Andre, Moulds, and Kevin Walters in the game, so Bush is definitely an upgrade at speed over Walters. Running a reverse with Andre and Mathis is far from being the same thing as having a 4.33 RB in the backfield, plus putting Reggie out on the field means you need a fast DB to keep up with him, so even with him in the backfield that takes a LB off the field and puts a CB out there, which will help the running game. if you've got four fast guys out there, you'd be pretty silly trying to match them speed for speed. You're playing their game, and chances are pretty good they are better at it than you. That being said, the key, is schemes. You can go three deep zone on our four, with underneath cover from the LB..... Give them the short stuff....... At the same time, Blitz pretty regular, to keep the long play from developing. With a QB like David Carr, half your work is done for you. You don't actually have to lay hands on him... just make it look like you will.

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? At most, I can't imagine David Carr going over 4000 yards in the NFL...... I'm giving him that 4000, with our current crop of skilled players..... even with Reggie in there, I don't believe he can complete over 4000yards..... so Reggie's yards will have to come from somewhere else....... Morency/Cook's yards perhaps......

And Vince Young adds what to this offense?
Vince is for the future. Since We won't be addressing a need with Reggie Bush, Since we'll basically be playing fantasy football with the #1 overall, might as well use it on the most Dynamic QB to ever come out of college, Vince Young.

It's either a safety or that extra CB in the game to make Reggie "pay", or the same safety and an extra LB in the middle of the field to make Domanick Davis "pay" for running anywhere either. I'll take my chances with Reggie's elusiveness against a nickel formation than Domanick Davis against a regular 4-3 formation.
OK, let's see here, you have CBs on Bush, Andre Johnson, and either Moulds or Mathis, then a safety having to cover the remaining guy between Mathis and Moulds, leaving one safety deep to cover the whole field and help out on AJ, Mathis, or Bush who all have the speed to beat a guy 1-on-1 going deep. Then you have 2 LBs to guard Putzier and Cook, and the 4 DLinemen rushing Carr, which our 5 OLinemen should be able to block long enough for Carr to find an open receiver. Or you could have Domanick Davis in there on most plays, meaning a LB can cover him so rather than them having to run a nickel all the time they can run their regular defense, so when we do run the ball our RB is having to get by 3 LBs rather than 2 LBs and that extra CB.
If you've got 4 recievers, 5 OLmen, 1 QB, you will have either Putz, Cook, or DD. I've got 5 people on the Line, DeMarcus, Spears, Ferguson, Canty, and Brunette. I can drop Brunett into underneath coverage, along with Bradie James. Roy Williams can come down to show press coverage on Mathis, but Blitz, while Aaron Glenn backs into zone..... Which, I've got a 4 deep zone going on, with my safeties, and my corners minus Roy, who is rushing from the side looking at Demarcus Ware, & Marcus Spears. or the other side with Brunette, and Canty... whichever side does not have tight end. If DD comes to block, we'll go through him..... if it's Cook?? [/quote]

There are ways to deal with speed. otherwise, AzHakim would be having a field day. The speedy reciever doesn't always win.



Bush creates matchup problems and adds a different dimension to an offense, and Denver's offense is perfectly suited for him. Yes our offense would be very functional without Bush, but he adds another serious threat in there, whereas adding a backup QB does nothing to improve our current offense, and Vince Young does not fit in Denver's offense as well as Bush does. If you want to pick the guy that will make the biggest impact for our team, then take Mario Williams, otherwise you take Bush if you're wanting the biggest impact for our offense.
I'm still not seeing Brian Westbrook as a #1 pick.......

whiskeyrbl
04-24-2006, 12:33 AM
Andre Ware was a bust? No way. How could this happen? He is from beautiful downtown Houston. All hail Houston QB's. They never fail in the NFL, everyone knows that. :spy:

Actually he is from Dickinson.:twocents:

The Dude Abides
04-24-2006, 12:35 AM
If we draft Reggie, we're not addressing a need. If we aren't going to be addressing a need anyway, whynot take the BPA...... a QB worthy of the #1 overall........ Vince.

Most people don't think VY is the BPA. I don't think he's the best QB in the draft. Most potential yes, not the best right now