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Johnny Utah
04-20-2006, 01:27 PM
Expensive Bush may be there for Saints

Unflappable back's asking price has Texans exploring optionsø

Thursday, April 20, 2006
By Jimmy Smith
Staff writer

What if, nine days from now, the unthinkable happened?

What if the Houston Texans follow through on the charade they're currently playing and take North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams with the first pick of the draft?

What if, when the Saints are in the clock, USC running back Reggie Bush is still available? Fantasy? Perhaps.

But there are about 30 million reasons why that scenario just might play itself out April 29.

That's the figure, in dollars, Bush's negotiating team apparently threw out in their only round of "contract talks" with the Texans, according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine the past week or so.

And is it any coincidence that the day after that $30 million dollar figure was mentioned, the Texans had Williams in for a visit?



http://www.nola.com/sports/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-23/1145515768278430.xml

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 01:32 PM
yes, the first round of their negotiating talks. you don't give the lowest amount of money you want at first, do ya?

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 01:34 PM
It is just like buying a car. Do you take the first price they throw at you? They sure as hell aren't going to lowball themselves.

nunusguy
04-20-2006, 01:38 PM
"But there are about 30 million reasons why that scenario just might play itself out April 29.
That's the figure, in dollars, Bush's negotiating team apparently threw out in their only round of "contract talks" with the Texans, according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine the past week or so. "
************************************************
"according to word circulating throughout the draft grapevine"
I dunno....but that doesn't exactly sound like a hard and fast source to me.
The author of this story may have got his training at "The Dan Rather school of Creative Journalism".

Sportsfan
04-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Ehh, i'm not worried. Nothing here worth getting worried about.

infantrycak
04-20-2006, 01:40 PM
This should be expected from anyone taken #1. Alex Smith's contract had $24 mil in guaranteed money. Just a 10% increase (and the cap increase was more than 10%) gets you to $26.4 mil. $30 as an opener isn't shocking.

Texans86
04-20-2006, 01:41 PM
Theres a slight difference between throwing a number out there, and being absurd. I'm not quite sure where that line is, but knowing Alex Smith's guaranteed money would be nice. That would give comparison. If A.Smith got like $15-20 million guaranteed then I'd laugh at Bush and say see you in the playoffs.

texansfaninla
04-20-2006, 01:42 PM
Here's the story on Alex Smith's contract:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234

"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."

Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. There was definitely no consensus last year as to who the best player was. As for this year - Hell, the Niners-Texans game was freaking labled the "Bush Bowl".

Does he get $30M guaranteed? No. But he probably gets around $27M. Plus my :twocents: .

Texans86
04-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Now knowing A.Smith's number, I still think Bush came in a little high. He isn't a quarterback, and doesn't deserve quarterback money. Amazingly enough, A.Smith's agent probably screwed us the most, because he wasn't the concensus number one, and yet got paid the same. R.Bush doesn't deserve a huge increase over his predecessors wages, first because he isn't a quarterback, which demands the most money, and second because rookies get paid too much in the first place, but that's another topic.

Johnny Utah
04-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Word was that Bush wanted QB money. Well, this is beyond QB money. It's John Elway type money if he were to come out this year.

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 01:47 PM
Here's the story on Alex Smith's contract:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234

"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."

Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. There was definitely no consensus last year as to who the best player was. As for this year - Hell, the Niners-Texans game was freaking labled the "Bush Bowl".

Does he get $30M guaranteed? No. But he probably gets around $27M. Plus my :twocents: .
Plus incentives & the tons of marketing he will do. Heard Adidas wants to make him the 2nd highest marketed player after Peyton Manning...

Texans86
04-20-2006, 01:56 PM
I think Reggie Bush heard he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, according to (insert media head here). He seems like a great guy, and an even better back, but I have problems who are good, and know it. I know its hard to be humble when money is on the line, but $30 million is an exhorbent amount for someone who has never touched a football in the pros. That is more than proven probowlers will get in free agency.

Someone needs to contact the NFLPA and the GMs and tell them to put a cap on rookie salaries. This is getting out of hand.

Big B Texan Fan
04-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Plus incentives & the tons of marketing he will do. Heard Adidas wants to make him the 2nd highest marketed player after Peyton Manning...
It's still too much.

Other teams would never work with the Texans again since the 1st pick usually sets the bar for other draftees in the trickle-down effect.

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:03 PM
It's amazing how money can have an effect on people. To me, this makes Bush look greedy, and selfish. He may not be those things, and it might be his agent wants a slightly larger number, but it makes the player look bad publicly when he seems to have a big head.

I am definately beginning to question my own judgement on him, and reverting back to my trade down ideas.

jerek
04-20-2006, 02:05 PM
yes, the first round of their negotiating talks. you don't give the lowest amount of money you want at first, do ya?

I think Bush will settle for less, but apparently he and his agent are very convinced of his worth and intend to set a record rookie deal.

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 02:07 PM
every single player projected to go #1 overall would want a huge amount of money. there's no greed here.

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:11 PM
every single player projected to go #1 overall would want a huge amount of money. there's no greed here.

It may not look like greed to you, but $30 million looks that way to me. A reasonable start wouold be around the $28-29 million range. Yeah, it may seem close, but that's and extra $1-2 MILLION dollars. That's a lot of zeros.

The Dude Abides
04-20-2006, 02:16 PM
Does anyone know who the highest paid running back in the league is? And how much did he get in guaranteed money

Dr. Toro
04-20-2006, 02:17 PM
I imagine Segal has an equation worked out taking into account potential endorsements in NY vs. TX and NY income tax. Unfortunately, even at equilibrium the advantage goes to NY, as Segal gets a bigger cut from endorsements. Thus, if we want Bush, we pay his price. Bush would be content to take less salary in NY if he could make it up elsewhere, and his agent might steer him in this direction. We might be looking at #4 and #29, hoping the QB's go 2-3.

Kaiser Toro
04-20-2006, 02:19 PM
I have never been part of a negotiation in the NFL, but it would be interesting to find out if Segal did any homework at all on the Texans Cap projection 5 years out. Morever, there is really no substance in the article. The bonus itself can rear itself in many forms signing, roster, etc., therefore it can be meted out many different ways. I seriously doubt that he would say 30 million and not have a plan behind it.

This appears to be more of a plant than substance.

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:22 PM
I imagine Segal has an equation worked out taking into account potential endorsements in NY vs. TX and NY income tax. Unfortunately, even at equilibrium the advantage goes to NY, as Segal gets a bigger cut from endorsements. Thus, if we want Bush, we pay his price. Bush would be content to take less salary in NY if he could make it up elsewhere, and his agent might steer him in this direction. We might be looking at #4 and #29, hoping the QB's go 2-3.

If his agent is betting on New York, he is taking a huge risk. Instead of the media haven of New York, he might end up in NO. No, they don't need a running back, but neither do we. Way too much risk to plan on it.

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 02:23 PM
It may not look like greed to you, but $30 million looks that way to me. A reasonable start wouold be around the $28-29 million range. Yeah, it may seem close, but that's and extra $1-2 MILLION dollars. That's a lot of zeros.
no, a reasonable start is to go as high as you think you can. it'll be whittled down to 26-27 i imagine.

gwallaia
04-20-2006, 02:24 PM
I hope they don't increase my season ticket prices to help offset the cost.

nflnutswife
04-20-2006, 02:27 PM
His asking price has been circulating for awhile, so is it a possibility that we take Bush and he becomes a hold out for money?

What happens then?:confused:

Dr. Toro
04-20-2006, 02:28 PM
Does anyone know who the highest paid running back in the league is? And how much did he get in guaranteed money

Alexander got 60 million, 15 guaranteed. Tomlinson got 20 guaranteed.

Johnny Utah
04-20-2006, 02:29 PM
I imagine Segal has an equation worked out taking into account potential endorsements in NY vs. TX and NY income tax. Unfortunately, even at equilibrium the advantage goes to NY, as Segal gets a bigger cut from endorsements. Thus, if we want Bush, we pay his price. Bush would be content to take less salary in NY if he could make it up elsewhere, and his agent might steer him in this direction. We might be looking at #4 and #29, hoping the QB's go 2-3.

It will take more than NY's #4 and #29 to move up to #1. According to the Draft Pick Value Chart

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

It would take NY's #4 + #29 + #35 to get our pick.

The Dude Abides
04-20-2006, 02:29 PM
Alexander got 60 million, 15 guaranteed. Tomlinson got 20 guaranteed.
Yeah, 30 million would be quite a stretch then for a running back.

Porky
04-20-2006, 02:31 PM
no, a reasonable start is to go as high as you think you can. it'll be whittled down to 26-27 i imagine.

Why stop at 30 then? Why not 35, 40, 50 million, or 10 billion dollars?

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:32 PM
Alexander got 60 million, 15 guaranteed. Tomlinson got 20 guaranteed.

There is no chance that I pay anywhere close to $30 million guaranteed. Thank you for that information. Yeah, I think RB has officially priced himself out of the first pick.

threetoedpete
04-20-2006, 02:33 PM
This should be expected from anyone taken #1. Alex Smith's contract had $24 mil in guaranteed money. Just a 10% increase (and the cap increase was more than 10%) gets you to $26.4 mil. $30 as an opener isn't shocking.
Thank you for the capology. I really apreciate it. So , what's an every down back like Sean Alexander, Larry Johnson or Stevie Jackson worth ? Inquiring minds wanna know ? gotta link anyone ?

MikeMc
04-20-2006, 02:40 PM
SA & LT money is fine for them....they have earned it. RB wanting that type of money is ridiculous!

People talk about these greedy college kids, who did not make much money in college unless they played for a BCS Conf school. I remember a lot of people saying Ricky Williams was crazy for his contract. Well his decision/explanation made sense: His signning bonus was for what he did in college....the base salary was a low number for anyone, but his incentive laden contract paid him based on how well he actually did at the end of the year...not how well he might do.

And most said he was crazy.....maybe he was just realistic. Hell, he might have had enough with the NFL and all of the BS, which is why he turned to the lettuce. I don't blame the guy.....sometimes your virtues make more sense than your checking acct!

c5demon
04-20-2006, 02:44 PM
Basis 101 in negotiations.

hollywood_texan
04-20-2006, 02:46 PM
Does anyone know who the highest paid running back in the league is? And how much did he get in guaranteed money

I believe Alexander got $62 million over eight years, but I seriously doubt he will be playing as a running back under that contract for 8 years.

It looks like Bush will get the type money that James and Alexander tried to get for the past two years, and they are proven vets.

I understand the bump from last year's #1 and the once in a generation hype, but there comes a point where it doesn't make sense with regard to the cap in the next year or so. Also, we need to keep mind the CBA agreement which increased the cap so there is even more money available.

Be assurred, if Reggie gets his big contract, Andre Johnson will want a new contract sooner, rather than later. Why would he want to wait for his raise at the end of his contract term? He could get injured or production could just drop off.

The ripple effects of this type of contract could be disastorious if they are not planned out and managed correctly.

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:47 PM
SA & LT money is fine for them....they have earned it. RB wanting that type of money is ridiculous!

People talk about these greedy college kids, who did not make much money in college unless they played for a BCS Conf school. I remember a lot of people saying Ricky Williams was crazy for his contract. Well his decision/explanation made sense: His signning bonus was for what he did in college....the base salary was a low number for anyone, but his incentive laden contract paid him based on how well he actually did at the end of the year...not how well he might do.



I agree on all accounts. I wish (hopelessly and fruitlessly) that the NFL would change from guaranteed cash to incentive laden for rookies. It makes so much more sense for the teams.

Basically, I would not pay an unproven rookie twice what Shawn Alexander, who (just to recap) now owns the single season Rushing TD record, lead the league in yards, came in second in leading the league in yards two years ago (by one yard), and went to the Super Bowl. LT is a proven probowler, and he showed humility by staying with the lowly Chargers when they were bad, when he could have waited and gotten a big paycheck in FA + more in Advertisements from a bigger market.

I'm sorry Reggie, but you're not worth it. Have fun in NO.

texansfaninla
04-20-2006, 02:50 PM
Reggie Bush's agent:

http://www.masterpiecepumpkins.com/Graphics/DrEvil%20_orig.JPG

"For my client to be the top pick in the NFL draft, we'll take nothing less than ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!"








Actually, jokes aside, if Alex Smith got $24 million guaranteed as the non-consensus top pick, I don't have a problem with Reggie Bush seeking more. Of course the $30 million number first thrown out is intentionally high to get the negotiation down in the $26M-$27M range. And as for a hefty sum for a running back - he is the top pick, and those contracts for the top picks seemingly grow every year. It's the nature of the beast. It's why there are such things as PSLs and $5 beers. Is it a boatload of money, and an overpayment for a player? Yes - Alex Smith should not be making more than, say, Ben Roethlisberger. But it is what it is.

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 02:51 PM
Why stop at 30 then? Why not 35, 40, 50 million, or 10 billion dollars?
using the car analogy earlier, when you're bargaining over a car at the dealer, do you start at one dollar? does he start at 8 million? gotta be reasonable.

tex
04-20-2006, 02:54 PM
Any know what Mario would ask if taken #1?

Texans86
04-20-2006, 02:54 PM
Anyone think it would be funny if CC came out and offered $10 million guaranteed? Ha, then RB would hold out, and he could sit and not get paid at all.

infantrycak
04-20-2006, 05:34 PM
Thank you for the capology. I really apreciate it. So , what's an every down back like Sean Alexander, Larry Johnson or Stevie Jackson worth ? Inquiring minds wanna know ? gotta link anyone ?

Here is a summary of some RB's:

Shaun Alexander, Seattle 1,880 27 Eight years, $62 million, in March 2006
Tiki Barber, New York Giants 1,860 9 Two-year extension, about $10 million in Sept. 2005
Larry Johnson, Kansas City 1,750 20 Seven-year, $8.8 million in July 2003
Clinton Portis, Washington 1,516 11 Eight-year, $50 million in March 2004
Edgerrin James, Indianapolis 1,506 13 Free agent; made $8.1 million last season
LaDainian Tomlinson, San Diego 1,462 18 Eight-year, $60 million in August 2004

Link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/261869_shaun06.html?source=mypi)

Anybody who hasn't seen the fact that RB specifically, but more importantly anyone who is #1 wants and gets more money than the #1 money from the year before, i.e. becomes the highest paid rookie ever (oh my god, shocking) has been fooling themselves. Take Ferguson number one and he is going to expect and get more than the $15 mil signing bonus deal Orlando Pace got. Draft Williams and he will get more money than Peppers or Strahan. That's the way it goes.

Htown34s
04-20-2006, 05:34 PM
It would take NY's #4 + #29 + #35 to get our pick.

IMO that would be our dream scenario! The Jets would never be that stupid, but could you imagine having these picks:

#4
#29
#33
#35
#65
#66

Talk about filling some holes!

El Amigo Invisible
04-20-2006, 05:35 PM
If this guy is going to be good at the pro level, he needs to go play with a decent team or atleast a decent O line.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 05:35 PM
I'd pay him... heck, he's a once in a lifetime athlete.

The man wants $30mill guaranteed, I'd give it to him.











over 10 years.

Tale Gator
04-20-2006, 05:37 PM
For that much I think the Texans will have to pass.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Here is a summary of some RB's:



Link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/261869_shaun06.html?source=mypi)

Anybody who hasn't seen the fact that RB specifically, but more importantly anyone who is #1 wants and gets more money than the #1 money from the year before, i.e. becomes the highest paid rookie ever (oh my god, shocking) has been fooling themselves. Take Ferguson number one and he is going to expect and get more than the $15 mil signing bonus deal Orlando Pace got. Draft Williams and he will get more money than Peppers or Strahan. That's the way it goes.

except this "change-of-pace" running back/slot reciever wants more money than a QB.......

What did LT get?? I'd start there.

Porky
04-20-2006, 06:53 PM
using the car analogy earlier, when you're bargaining over a car at the dealer, do you start at one dollar? does he start at 8 million? gotta be reasonable.

I was actually thinking of Dr. Evil when I threw out the 10 billion dollars. LOL.

Anyway, I understand the point, but then it's a matter of what I might find reasonable and you might could potentially be different things. I might think that a new Lexus shouldn't be selling for 60k. I will offer you 30k take it or leave it. No car is worth 60k imo so it's 30k or no deal. OTOH, you as the dealer might think this car is so good, that 60k is a bargain. You insist that I pay not only the sticker price of 60k, but an extra 20k surcharge because this particular Lexus is a once in a lifetime Lexus, and has gold trim, a hot new stereo system. Besides, there is another customer waiting in the showroom from New Orleans who says that he will at least give me a 10K premium over sticker price.

Well, now my choice is do I go down to the BMW dealer which is just a tad lower rated car, but for less money(M Williams), pay the 20K premium (Bush's current offer), try to knock that back down to sticker and buy it (negioiate further with Bush), or buy it and immediately trade it for the BMW? :stirpot:

Nawzer
04-20-2006, 06:55 PM
I wonder what Mario Williams' is going to ask if he's going to be our guy. If he indeed is the second coming of Julius Peppers, he's going to want to get paid like him.

MikeMc
04-20-2006, 07:08 PM
QB's get paid a premium because they touch the ball on every play - they are the poster boy for the franchise. You never hear this said "Franchise RB".... do you?

Don't kid yourselves....if RBush is drafted by the Texans and paid $30mm, he will not be used in the return game (Texans have a Pro-Bowl Returner already), and he will slowly be used in the passing game. Why pay someone that much (guaranteed) only to have them injured most of the time? Look at Ced Benson....perfect example!

If RBush wants to add 10% to the top RB chosen last year (among top 5 picks), then I do not feel bad with that tactic.....but to be as ignorant as this to demand QB money, leads me to believe he is not the guy the Texans should draft....I can see negotiations being a problem from day one. And we all know that rookies not in camp from Day1 do not have the success as those that are in camp. Proven fact!

As for Williams wanting Peppers money....not a problem....Top 5 pick at DE....use a comparable salary breakdown, plus a slight premium for 4 years past. And there you have it.

I'm tired of these millionaires arguing of millions with billionaire owners. Egos get in the way. Why do they not realize that even if they were paid "only" $5mm over 5 years, they'd be set for life! They could still buy their moms a house, a car, a top "baller" ride, a fresh crib for themselves.....and put a sound amount of money in investments. And when they were done with their career...move into broadcasting, sports radio, scouting, or some other 6-figure salary to keep them accustomed to the living they had as a pro.

Meanwhile most football fans would kill to have a 6-figure job and a car that ran, a home with few problems, all while not having to pay $200 a game to watch his team play.

Professional athletes....LMAO! Now that's an oxymoron! Nothing professional about 75% of today's pro-athletes!

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 07:10 PM
I was actually thinking of Dr. Evil when I threw out the 10 billion dollars. LOL.

Anyway, I understand the point, but then it's a matter of what I might find reasonable and you might could potentially be different things. I might think that a new Lexus shouldn't be selling for 60k. I will offer you 30k take it or leave it. No car is worth 60k imo so it's 30k or no deal. OTOH, you as the dealer might think this car is so good, that 60k is a bargain. You insist that I pay not only the sticker price of 60k, but an extra 20k surcharge because this particular Lexus is a once in a lifetime Lexus, and has gold trim, a hot new stereo system. Besides, there is another customer waiting in the showroom from New Orleans who says that he will at least give me a 10K premium over sticker price.

Well, now my choice is do I go down to the BMW dealer which is just a tad lower rated car, but for less money(M Williams), pay the 20K premium (Bush's current offer), try to knock that back down to sticker and buy it (negioiate further with Bush), or buy it and immediately trade it for the BMW? :stirpot:
uhhh just draft bush.

dalemurphy
04-20-2006, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=texansfaninla]Here's the story on Alex Smith's contract:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2116234

"Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft."

Is Bush worth from $1M-$6M more than Smith? I'd say yes. \QUOTE]

The real question is, "is Alex Smith worth $24 million in guaranteed money?", if you're going to base Bush's value on Smith's salary.

kcwilson
04-20-2006, 07:19 PM
Silver Lining:

When Reggie comes to the Texans at $30M, what does that tell us from a negotiation standpoint? Exactly. Reggie wants to go to NYJets and probably sees that as a better career path due to Madison Avenue. I don't blame him, it is where he can maximize his exposure.

From our standpoint, it means that we may have some bargaining power to trade down with the Jets because they can pretend that they went to USC to talk to Leinart and then "Oh, hey, Reggie Bush is here. Wow, darn the luck. Say reggie, why don't you suit up for us and work out. boy won't that be fun."

I think the Jets know between Saints and Tenn, that Leinart is off the board at their slot and they used the ploy of visiting Leinart to see Reggie again. They have Ramsey to back up Pennington and would love Reggie to take over for Curtis and be the NYC poster child competitive to Eli and the Giants.

Jets are trying to be coy, but the hook is in their mouth.

Htown34s
04-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Don't kid yourselves....if RBush is drafted by the Texans and paid $30mm, he will not be used in the return game (Texans have a Pro-Bowl Returner already)

Heck, I'd say if we paid him $20mil he wouldn't be used in the return game. Hopefully he won't be doing that for us. Return guys seem like they get hurt more often anyhow. Too many times guys change direction only to be laid out by some guy untouched running full speed from the oposite side of the field.

cuppacoffee
04-20-2006, 07:49 PM
Silver Lining:


I think the Jets know between Saints and Tenn, that Leinart is off the board at their slot and they used the ploy of visiting Leinart to see Reggie again. They have Ramsey to back up Pennington and would love Reggie to take over for Curtis and be the NYC poster child competitive to Eli and the Giants.
Jets are trying to be coy, but the hook is in their mouth.

I've had this disturbing thought myself. Lots of competition for fans and advertising $ in the NY area.

Landing Bush would help the Jets take the luster off Eli and the Giants.

I want the Texans to draft Bush but I am beginning to get a sinking feeling about the whole thing.

I just remember how much of a difference Earl made when the came to the Oilers.

And yes, I do think Bush will make that kind of impact on the team.

:coffee:

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 07:51 PM
I just remember how much of a difference Earl made when the came to the Oilers.

And yes, I do think Bush will make that kind of impact on the team.


Exactly. At this point I would be surprised if we DO draft Reggie...

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 07:55 PM
100% chance houston drafts bush.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 09:45 PM
If RBush wants to add 10% to the top RB chosen last year (among top 5 picks), then I do not feel bad with that tactic.....but to be as ignorant as this to demand QB money, leads me to believe he is not the guy the Texans should draft....I can see negotiations being a problem from day one. And we all know that rookies not in camp from Day1 do not have the success as those that are in camp. Proven fact!


REmember a little while back, we were talking about the candidates and the #1 pick??

Some guys were saying one person in particular was all about the money, and the other just wanted to play for his home town team??

This just makes me believe Reggie is all about the money.

I understand he's the most explosive RB to come out since LT....... but fair is fair......

Now, I'm not saying Reggie is asking for $30 mil gauranteed......... something like 50-60 mill....... I'm saying if it is true, it sounds like it's all about the money.

If my client was going to ask for something like that, or I as his agent thought he was worth it, and that we should be able to get it........ I wouldn't have thrown that # out there. I'd have the Texans make an offer..... if they aren't close......... I'd just leave.

I'd do my agent thing, and find out who is interested, and let it be known that my player would love to play for that team...

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 10:01 PM
Silver Lining:

When Reggie comes to the Texans at $30M, what does that tell us from a negotiation standpoint? Exactly. Reggie wants to go to NYJets and probably sees that as a better career path due to Madison Avenue. I don't blame him, it is where he can maximize his exposure.

From our standpoint, it means that we may have some bargaining power to trade down with the Jets

We have no trading power because of this, not with the Jets. $30 mill is too much for us, won't happen. The Jets would expect us to pass...... N.O. takes Mario, Tenn Takes Vince........

Bush is there. & they shouldn't expect Reggie to expect $30mil gauranteed.

& the only thing the Giants has over the Jets, is that the Giants are winning football games...

Napa Auto Parts
04-20-2006, 10:06 PM
This should be expected from anyone taken #1. Alex Smith's contract had $24 mil in guaranteed money. Just a 10% increase (and the cap increase was more than 10%) gets you to $26.4 mil. $30 as an opener isn't shocking.



True but were talking about a Running back here not a QB.

kcwilson
04-20-2006, 10:34 PM
We have no trading power because of this, not with the Jets. $30 mill is too much for us, won't happen. The Jets would expect us to pass...... N.O. takes Mario, Tenn Takes Vince........

Bush is there. & they shouldn't expect Reggie to expect $30mil gauranteed.

& the only thing the Giants has over the Jets, is that the Giants are winning football games...

If we don't trade, we take Reggie... No doubt about that. Our trading power is only as good as those that want the pick, so in reality, we never have power, just suitors. The Jets in my opinion are suitors because I think they wopuld love to mix that kind of prime time player in the fold. I also think Reggie would be willing to take slightly less money from them because of the NY endorsements he would receive.

I don't think we pay $30, but it is realistic to pay what Alex Smith got paid last year... I mean, who is Alex Smith, if Reggie or Matt came out in the draft in 2005, they would have gotten more attention than Alex Smith.

The Dude Abides
04-20-2006, 10:42 PM
Per KFFL News Wire

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl
Texans | R. Bush still expects to be No. 1 NFL Draft pick
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:02:08 -0700
Todd Harmonson, of the Orange County Register, reports USC RB Reggie Bush (http://www.kffl.com/player/13289/nfl) said he still expects to be the top overall selection in next week's NFL Draft (http://www.kffl.com/link/159). However, he confirmed widespread reports that the Houston Texans (http://www.kffl.com/team/18/nfl) have not opened contract negotiations with him. "There are some people saying it's because I'm demanding $30 million (for a signing bonus), but that's not true," Bush said in a telephone interview. "We haven't talked numbers with them at all. Right now it's kind of on them to start negotiations if they want to." Bush said he only has met with officials from Houston and the New York Jets (http://www.kffl.com/team/27/nfl).

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 10:49 PM
If we don't trade, we take Reggie... No doubt about that. Our trading power is only as good as those that want the pick, so in reality, we never have power, just suitors. The Jets in my opinion are suitors because I think they wopuld love to mix that kind of prime time player in the fold. I also think Reggie would be willing to take slightly less money from them because of the NY endorsements he would receive.

I don't think we pay $30, but it is realistic to pay what Alex Smith got paid last year... I mean, who is Alex Smith, if Reggie or Matt came out in the draft in 2005, they would have gotten more attention than Alex Smith.

pssshh

there are folks on this board, who say that Ronnie Brown is better than Reggie Bush, and he couldn't get the #1 spot from Alex.

Texans_Chick
04-20-2006, 10:50 PM
100% chance houston drafts bush.

I've posted this before, but here is the reason I think we are flirting with Mario and worried a little about Reggie:

The Texans put a premium on signing a player before the draft.

Reggie Bush has stated that he wants to make sure that he is in camp on time, but does not feel pressure to be signed up before the draft. He said he would liked to be signed up before the draft but doesn't want to do that on a discount. (no link--just the interview as I heard it on 610)

Anyhow, ran across this information and thought it was interesting:

Link (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050816/SPT02/508160371/1066)



"I don't think you can say it's a reputation," he said. "If it is, then that report in that one magazine about agents who hold their guys out the longest, what's that?"

[Marvin] Lewis referred to a report in a recent issue of "SportsBusiness Journal" that showed Condon and partner Ken Kremer of IMG have held-out 13 first-round draft picks since 1995. Agents Eugene Parker and Roosevelt Barnes also have held-out 13.

But Condon and Kremer have far many more first-round picks, 30, than Parker and Barnes, who had 22, the magazine reported. Condon and Kremer's clients have held-out 43 percent of the time. Parker and Barnes' rookie first-round clients - including Perry - have held-out 59 percent of the time.

But agents with far fewer first-round picks since 1995 have much higher incidents of holdouts, according to "SportsBusiness Journal:"

Neil Cornrich, 5 of 6, 83 percent; Jimmy Sexton and Joel Segal both have held-out 7 of 9 (78 percent) first-round clients since '95. Carl and Kevin Poston have held-out seven of their 10 first-round rookies.

"Reputation goes both ways. It's not one-sided. Fair is fair," Lewis said.


(You can find the original SportsBusiness Journal article pretty easily but it is subscription only and I don't want to go through the bother of signing up for the free subscription).

My thinking outloud:

The Texans cannot afford to have their first pick hold out, especially if they are a player that they would like to design a part of their offense around. With a new coach, a new system and a bunch of free agents coming in, getting that pick signed means something.

And if you can't get that done before the draft, even though that is one of the privileges of the first pick, well then, that is a problem.

So, I am guessing this is why the Texans are gaming a bit. 7 of 9 is a sucko statistic.

That being said, I am not a fan of being too cute with your draft picks.

threetoedpete
04-20-2006, 11:08 PM
Very nice post Texans_chick.

The Dude Abides
04-20-2006, 11:27 PM
Once again I face the issue...we are gettin' VY in the 1st pick or trade down to Willie. Everybody needs to face the it...RB is allready askin' way too much mulla but hey everything will be fine and dandy when #10 is drafted 1st .....trust me right Thunderkyss?! You on the same page. Tell 'em. Its the truth.:redtowel:

I'm glad no one read my post on the page before this one. Read the BOLD, ITALIZIED, UNDERLINED Letters. He didn't ask for 30 million.

Texans | R. Bush still expects to be No. 1 NFL Draft pick
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:02:08 -0700
Todd Harmonson, of the Orange County Register, reports USC RB Reggie Bush (http://www.kffl.com/player/13289/nfl) said he still expects to be the top overall selection in next week's NFL Draft (http://www.kffl.com/link/159). However, he confirmed widespread reports that the Houston Texans (http://www.kffl.com/team/18/nfl) have not opened contract negotiations with him. "There are some people saying it's because I'm demanding $30 million (for a signing bonus), but that's not true," Bush said in a telephone interview. "We haven't talked numbers with them at all. Right now it's kind of on them to start negotiations if they want to." Bush said he only has met with officials from Houston and the New York Jets (http://www.kffl.com/team/27/nfl).
kffl.com

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 11:35 PM
I'm feeling a little better & I think it may get done now. Right now, I am back to feeling like it is 60/40 trade down over drafting Bush. I do not believe Williams will go # 1.

Frank_The_Tank
04-20-2006, 11:45 PM
I told you so, I guessed 30 mil up front over two weeks ago. Its not Bush's fault, when every sports caster in the nation is blowing smoke up your butt this is what happens. Its just like Charley C. said on the NFL Network interview, Reggie is not the next M. Jordan. Quote Charley C. "He is a kid who has shown he can only carry the ball 15 times a game. People boast about his 40 inch verticle, Mario Williams had a 40 inch verticle and he is 9 inches taller than Reggie and outweighs him by 90 lbs." I say pass on Reggie, he is not worth that kind of money for our team. He wont even return kicks for us, and most of the offensive plays Denver ran last year they had a FB TE 2WR and RB in the game so saying Bush will help out at the #3 reciever spot is realling stretching it. Sorry Fans, Bush is a no-go unless he cuts that 30 mil in half.

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 11:52 PM
I told you so, I guessed 30 mil up front over two weeks ago. Its not Bush's fault, when every sports caster in the nation is blowing smoke up your butt this is what happens. Its just like Charley C. said on the NFL Network interview, Reggie is not the next M. Jordan. Quote Charley C. "He is a kid who has shown he can only carry the ball 15 times a game. People boast about his 40 inch verticle, Mario Williams had a 40 inch verticle and he is 9 inches taller than Reggie and outweighs him by 90 lbs." I say pass on Reggie, he is not worth that kind of money for our team. He wont even return kicks for us, and most of the offensive plays Denver ran last year they had a FB TE 2WR and RB in the game so saying Bush will help out at the #3 reciever spot is realling stretching it. Sorry Fans, Bush is a no-go unless he cuts that 30 mil in half.
Jesus Christ.
Texans | R. Bush still expects to be No. 1 NFL Draft pick
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:02:08 -0700
Todd Harmonson, of the Orange County Register, reports USC RB Reggie Bush said he still expects to be the top overall selection in next week's NFL Draft. However, he confirmed widespread reports that the Houston Texans have not opened contract negotiations with him. "There are some people saying it's because I'm demanding $30 million (for a signing bonus), but that's not true," Bush said in a telephone interview. "We haven't talked numbers with them at all. Right now it's kind of on them to start negotiations if they want to." Bush said he only has met with officials from Houston and the New York Jets.

The 30 million was made up. If you believe everything the media says, John Kerry would be president!

The Dude Abides
04-21-2006, 12:01 AM
I beg the differ my friend. Me, I'd like to see VY here more than RB just simply because I played against the guy and I know what he is capable of(when he was with Madison High). Other than that I know by future reference that RB will be wantin' way too much money for us to sign him especially when we have been very active in the FA. But hey all I'm sayin' draft VY or trade down and pick more picks and AJ hawk or that D'Brick dude or M. Williams out.




I said this a while ago and I still stand to it unless somebody proves me wrong.:cool:

Well since you played against him in high school my mind is set.

Frank_The_Tank
04-21-2006, 12:03 AM
Yea it is made up, O.K.???? I guess that is why the Texans invited him in and have not made one positive comment about the guy since. Look go to www.nfl.com, they have Charley C. speaking, listen to how he feels about Reggie, listen to how he mocks Bush's pro-day marks. LOL Bush will not be a Texan, the faster you people can suck it up and get over it the better it will be for yourselves.

Frank_The_Tank
04-21-2006, 12:14 AM
The 30 million was made up. If you believe everything the media says, John Kerry would be president! By Franky
__________________


Thats hilarious!lol:

Do you enjoy paying 2.80 for regular unleaded. LOL We better not go this route I will make you look like such a fool.

The Dude Abides
04-21-2006, 12:17 AM
Yea it is made up, O.K.???? I guess that is why the Texans invited him in and have not made one positive comment about the guy since. Look go to www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com), they have Charley C. speaking, listen to how he feels about Reggie, listen to how he mocks Bushes pro-day marks. LOL Bush will not be a Texan, the faster you people can suck it up and get over it the better it will be for yourselves.

I don't know how people on this board can deal in absolutes when they have no idea what the Texans are going to do.
"The Texans will not draft Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Mario Williams, period, end of discussion." Give that story a rest guys.
Unless the top tier brass of the Texans is Frank_The_Tank, then no, we have no idea what they are going to do. Just because GM's say one thing, doesn't mean they are going to do it/mean it.

The Texans have not said one negative thing about him either. Just because you are down on one player doesn't mean they are not going to draft him. Suck it up.

Frank_The_Tank
04-21-2006, 12:21 AM
I don't know how people on this board can deal in absolutes when they have no idea what the Texans are going to do.
"The Texans will not draft Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Mario Williams, period, end of discussion." Give that story a rest guys.
Unless the top tier brass of the Texans is Frank_The_Tank, then no, we have no idea what they are going to do. Just because GM's say one thing, doesn't mean they are going to do it/mean it.

The Texans have not said one negative thing about him either. Just because you are down on one player doesn't mean they are not going to draft him. Suck it up.

Did I mention www.nfl.com look at the video selections, click on Casselry and listen how he talks about Bush.

The Dude Abides
04-21-2006, 12:32 AM
Did I mention www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com) look at the video selections, click on Casselry and listen how he talks about Bush.

And just like I said in the above post, GM's don't always tell the truth.

bad
04-21-2006, 12:37 AM
What if, nine days from now, the unthinkable happened?

What if the Houston Texans follow through on the charade they're currently playing and take North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams with the first pick of the draft?

What if, when the Saints are in the clock, USC running back Reggie Bush is still available? ...
They wish.
http://www.rocketpillow.com/bs/img/bfelix.gif

Runner
04-21-2006, 12:40 AM
"The Texans will not draft Reggie Bush, Vince Young, Mario Williams, period, end of discussion."

If there were half as many "probablies", "maybes", and "I thinks" on this board as there are "periods":

I think there would probably be more intelligent discussions.

Maybe.

infantrycak
04-21-2006, 12:41 AM
True but were talking about a Running back here not a QB.

And when you can find three examples of out of draft position payments in the last 10 years, that will make a difference. NFL rookie contracts are done on draft position not playing position.

Texans86
04-21-2006, 12:50 AM
And when you can find three examples of out of draft position payments in the last 10 years, that will make a difference. NFL rookie contracts are done on draft position not playing position.

With the exception of 2000 all of the first picks from 1998-2005 have been quarterbacks, just for reference. 2000 - Cleveland picks DE Courtney Brown.

Texans86
04-21-2006, 12:52 AM
I haven't been able to find a good link to put up here, but I was searching for Ronnie Brown's guaranteed salary, since I figured that would be the best reference for a running back last year, and he was picked #2. He was given $18.5 million guaranteed. You can doubt me and look it up since I don't have a link, but I tried to find one. I'm bad at that.

infantrycak
04-21-2006, 12:58 AM
With the exception of 2000 all of the first picks from 1998-2005 have been quarterbacks, just for reference. 2000 - Cleveland picks DE Courtney Brown.

Yes, but if you look lower in the draft there are plenty of examples of players at lower paid positions being taken in front of players at higher paid positions--Sean Taylor and Kellen Winslow in front of Roy Williams, Dunta in front of Big Ben, Vilma in front of Evans, etc. They were paid according to draft slot not position. You didn't see Sean Taylor taking safety money, he got #5 money. There is ample evidence of slotting and no evidence for applying average non-rookie contract prices to rookie contracts.

El Amigo Invisible
04-21-2006, 01:02 AM
Dunta in front of Big Ben ? Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. LOL .:redtowel: I didn't even realize

Texans86
04-21-2006, 01:04 AM
Yes, but if you look lower in the draft there are plenty of examples of players at lower paid positions being taken in front of players at higher paid positions--Sean Taylor and Kellen Winslow in front of Roy Williams, Dunta in front of Big Ben, Vilma in front of Evans, etc. They were paid according to draft slot not position. You didn't see Sean Taylor taking safety money, he got #5 money. There is ample evidence of slotting and no evidence for applying average non-rookie contract prices to rookie contracts.

Well, I do see your point, but if I remember correctly, QB gets paid most, followed by CB, DE and S. So their numbers can also be comperable coming out of the draft.

I still wish the NFL set rookie salaries, giving a range that salaries cannot exceed each year. I wish they would go even further and take something from Baseball (my goodness am I getting something from MLB) and not give huge contracts to rookies. They have to prove themselves to get paid the real money. Of course, the sky is the limit from there.

Texans86
04-21-2006, 01:06 AM
Dunta in front of Big Ben ? Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. LOL .:redtowel: I didn't even realize

Yep, we pick D.Robinson with the 10th pick and Pittsburg takes Rothlisberger with the 11th. Shows the difference of a couple years and some playmakers.

The Dude Abides
04-21-2006, 01:09 AM
If there were half as many "probablies", "maybes", and "I thinks" on this board as there are "periods":

I think there would probably be more intelligent discussions.

Maybe.

Scratch this post. I edited it.

Runner
04-21-2006, 01:11 AM
Also scratched.

El Amigo Invisible
04-21-2006, 01:11 AM
Reggie bush aint worth that much! Maybe a few years down the road if has got us to the afc championship. i say right now he worth around 15 million for 3 years. I swear who is dumber vince young or reggie bush? :brickwall
Vince was educated by HISD. Who do you think is smarter??????????????

He says things like "Dat" and "Dere".Madison Highschool must have been all about the foozeball.UT did not do too good of a job bringing him up to speed either.

Reggie is well spoken but he seems to be somewhat of an arrogant little you know what .

infantrycak
04-21-2006, 01:15 AM
Well, I do see your point, but if I remember correctly, QB gets paid most, followed by CB, DE and S. So their numbers can also be comperable coming out of the draft.

I completely agree rookie salaries should be charted and lowered and frankly am surprised the new CBA didn't do something about that. As it stands though, everything you are saying about QB, CB, DE, S etc. is for non-rookie contracts. When players sign their 2nd and subsequent contracts there is a defined zone by position, but on rookie contracts there has been zero or very little draft position jumping based on the average pay on non-rookie contracts by position. In the past few years, you get paid between what the guys above and below you get paid and the whole scale moves up slightly from the scale for the year before. That's another way of looking at what I am saying. Sean Taylor at #5 in 2004 didn't get paid less than Terrence Newman did for #5 in 2003. There is an example with an even greater position based salary split than RB and QB but draft position ruled.

jgite
04-21-2006, 02:52 AM
Vince was educated by HISD. Who do you think is smarter??????????????

He says things like "Dat" and "Dere".Madison Highschool must have been all about the foozeball.UT did not do too good of a job bringing him up to speed either.

Reggie is well spoken but he seems to be somewhat of an arrogant little you know what .

Hey, don't diss da HISD, ya feel me:challenge :respect:

phan1
04-21-2006, 03:15 AM
pssshh

there are folks on this board, who say that Ronnie Brown is better than Reggie Bush, and he couldn't get the #1 spot from Alex.

Yeah, cause you know how many posters on this board are more qualified than NFL scouts. :rolleyes: If anyone says Ronnie Brown is even comparable to Reggie as a pure prospect, they are a complete joke.

As for VY's intelligence (or lack of), it is pretty much a fact that he doesn't present himself as a smart guy. "Shut up" was his response about hiring family to represent him rather than professionals. Personnally, I do think he is immature and lacking intelligence as advertised by VY himself. In college, all he had to do was play. In the NFL, he's going to have to be the face of the organization, communicate with coaches, and communicate with the media. He hasn't shown he can do that at all. If I'm an owner, I know that I do not want him in front of a mic for too long.

Does than mean he's going to be a crappy QB? Not necessarily. But I can tell you I don't know many good QBs who don't know how to carry themselves well. It's just not his lack of linguistic skills either. If he's on TV off of the football field, it always seems he does more wrong things than right things. You talk about VY has great intangibles, but he's got a lot of bad ones as well. All I know is that he has to start acting like a professional sometime soon. He seems like the type of guy who really needs a good mentor if he is to become a good QB. Just my 2 cents and my personnel perception of VY.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 08:27 AM
I completely agree rookie salaries should be charted and lowered and frankly am surprised the new CBA didn't do something about that. As it stands though, everything you are saying about QB, CB, DE, S etc. is for non-rookie contracts. When players sign their 2nd and subsequent contracts there is a defined zone by position, but on rookie contracts there has been zero or very little draft position jumping based on the average pay on non-rookie contracts by position. In the past few years, you get paid between what the guys above and below you get paid and the whole scale moves up slightly from the scale for the year before. That's another way of looking at what I am saying. Sean Taylor at #5 in 2004 didn't get paid less than Terrence Newman did for #5 in 2003. There is an example with an even greater position based salary split than RB and QB but draft position ruled.

for the most part, I agree... you are correct.

But in years past, the biggest jumps in the contracts have been when a QB has gone #1. For any position other than the QB, there have been modest jumps, if any at all.

HJam72
04-21-2006, 08:30 AM
Forget Bush, I want $30 million guaranteed! :)

O.G.
04-21-2006, 08:36 AM
This should be expected from anyone taken #1. Alex Smith's contract had $24 mil in guaranteed money. Just a 10% increase (and the cap increase was more than 10%) gets you to $26.4 mil. $30 as an opener isn't shocking.

My point exactly. I think he will get 26 mil guaranteed.

HJam72
04-21-2006, 08:37 AM
My point exactly. I think he will get 26 mil guaranteed.

OK, I guess I can settle for 26 if I have to. :rolleyes:

barzilla
04-21-2006, 08:44 AM
I can't believe we are actually considering not drafting this guy based on a few million dollars. Folks, this guy is the deal. Yes, bad stuff can happen, but it can happen to anyone in this draft. I say use that number as a starting point and let's get to work.

eltoro
04-21-2006, 09:11 AM
From Profootballtalk.com

Texans | R. Bush still expects to be No. 1 NFL Draft pick
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:02:08 -0700

Todd Harmonson, of the Orange County Register, reports USC RB Reggie Bush said he still expects to be the top overall selection in next week's NFL Draft. However, he confirmed widespread reports that the Houston Texans have not opened contract negotiations with him. "There are some people saying it's because I'm demanding $30 million (for a signing bonus), but that's not true," Bush said in a telephone interview. "We haven't talked numbers with them at all. Right now it's kind of on them to start negotiations if they want to." Bush said he only has met with officials from Houston and the New York Jets.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 09:17 AM
I can't believe we are actually considering not drafting this guy based on a few million dollars. Folks, this guy is the deal. Yes, bad stuff can happen, but it can happen to anyone in this draft. I say use that number as a starting point and let's get to work.

Personally, I think DD, & Morency both have a lot more to offer than we have seen. Once Kubiak get's his Zone block/cut blocking on, we'll see DD with over 2000 all purpose yards......... he isn't flashy, his big plays go for 40/50 yards,and not 80, but DD averages well against all the big time RBs. He was ranked 19th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB-RUSHING/2003/regular) his rookie year, amoung NFL Runningbacks, 15th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB-RUSHING/2004/regular) in his second season, & 9th (http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/RB-RUSHING/2005/regular) his 3rd season in the league, all the while being on a bad NFL team..... ranked 30th or something in total offense.

If I were Kubiak, I'd still like to trade down, with the '49ers, take their #6, their #22(??), a player to be named later, or their 1st next year.

With that #6, I'd take Justice, Huff, AJ, Davis or Young(in that order). With the #22, I'd be looking to get Williams, Kiwanuka, Moroney, Allen....

infantrycak
04-21-2006, 09:46 AM
But in years past, the biggest jumps in the contracts have been when a QB has gone #1. For any position other than the QB, there have been modest jumps, if any at all.

Do you have some numbers/examples demonstrating that?--and what was the corresponding cap increase for each of those years as well?

jerek
04-21-2006, 09:54 AM
I completely agree rookie salaries should be charted and lowered and frankly am surprised the new CBA didn't do something about that. As it stands though, everything you are saying about QB, CB, DE, S etc. is for non-rookie contracts. When players sign their 2nd and subsequent contracts there is a defined zone by position, but on rookie contracts there has been zero or very little draft position jumping based on the average pay on non-rookie contracts by position. In the past few years, you get paid between what the guys above and below you get paid and the whole scale moves up slightly from the scale for the year before. That's another way of looking at what I am saying. Sean Taylor at #5 in 2004 didn't get paid less than Terrence Newman did for #5 in 2003. There is an example with an even greater position based salary split than RB and QB but draft position ruled.

Exactly. First round draft picks are paid more or less by draft slot, while non-rookie contracts are negotiated based primarily by both position and skill (unless you're Dan Ferens, our negotiations guy, in which case you pay players exorbitant amounts of money that leave fans scratching their heads.) I don't think there is any mathematical formula to the increases; I think it is just ballparked and of course a guy like Reggie Bush -- MHPA (most hyped player available) -- will get away with asking for slightly more than expected and probably get it too.

MikeMc
04-21-2006, 11:07 AM
Like DeAngelo WIlliams said, the key is to get 8 first downs (80 yrds) as opposed to trying for one 80 yrd run. That shows the difference between a selfish player (wanting the glory for himself) and a team player (wanting the team to be successful).

A team that can sustain drives, kill the clock, and score....will help the defense dominate a game by keeping them fresh (off the field). DD shows he can help sustain drives. The OC play-calling last year killed drives!

Have a strong Offensive game plan, mixed with a solid defense...and this team is going places. Get that stud DE (Mario) and the defense will be strong. Get RB, and the offense may not necessarily be strong. A defense can shut-down one player......most offenses must change plans if a player is dominating the OL/Offense (like a Mario Williams would). That is called getting the offense out of their gameplan.

Frank_The_Tank
04-21-2006, 11:11 AM
PHAN1 This post is in responce to yours.
Do you write any other fictional stories with your spare time? First, Ronnie Brown is just as good if not a better prospect as Reggie Bush in many people eyes. Second, in America we still have the freedom of choice; George Bush has yet to find an excuse to take that liberty away from the people like he has with other civil liberties, so as far as I am concerned Vince Young still has the right to chose the personnel he feels is right for managing his legalities. If Vince Young wants to hire a family friend, NOTE: Who is a Lawyer and his Uncle, NOTE: College Educated, to be his agents then I say go right ahead. From the basis that they refused to take power of attorney just proves how much they care about their jobs and their protection of Vince. Oh, and from the comment you made above I guess I am going to have to explain what power of attorney is so here is a brief definition: Power of Attorney is legal documentation that permits a person to have legal authority to act on your behalf in financial or medical matters. Layman terms, POA gives them to total access to every dime he earns. With POA a person could clean you out and legally there is nothing you could do because you agreed to give POA. Vince Young’s agents sound like good men to have backing you. The comment about Vince saying SHUT UP is fabricated by you and is a total lie. Given the scrutiny that Vince has gone through I think he has done very well. The Wonderlic Test is a joke, and if Dan Marino scored a ten then Vince scoring a 16 is just fine. The truth is most of you guys are so pissed that the Texans are not taking Bush that you are all referring back to what you do best, and that is bashing Young.

dirty steve
04-21-2006, 11:43 AM
PHAN1 This post is in responce to yours.
Do you write any other fictional stories with your spare time? First, Ronnie Brown is just as good if not a better prospect as Reggie Bush in many people eyes. Second, in America we still have the freedom of choice; George Bush has yet to find an excuse to take that liberty away from the people like he has with other civil liberties, so as far as I am concerned Vince Young still has the right to chose the personnel he feels is right for managing his legalities. If Vince Young wants to hire a family friend, NOTE: Who is a Lawyer and his Uncle, NOTE: College Educated, to be his agents then I say go right ahead. From the basis that they refused to take power of attorney just proves how much they care about their jobs and their protection of Vince. Oh, and from the comment you made above I guess I am going to have to explain what power of attorney is so here is a brief definition: Power of Attorney is legal documentation that permits a person to have legal authority to act on your behalf in financial or medical matters. Layman terms, POA gives them to total access to every dime he earns. With POA a person could clean you out and legally there is nothing you could do because you agreed to give POA. Vince Young’s agents sound like good men to have backing you. The comment about Vince saying SHUT UP is fabricated by you and is a total lie. Given the scrutiny that Vince has gone through I think he has done very well. The Wonderlic Test is a joke, and if Dan Marino scored a ten then Vince scoring a 16 is just fine. The truth is most of you guys are so pissed that the Texans are not taking Bush that you are all referring back to what you do best, and that is bashing Young.


hey, get over yourself man. that really isn't the truth. i haven't been for drafting VY since everybody jumped on him after the Rose Bowl. for the one hundreth time, just because we want somebody other than VY, doesn't mean we are bashing him. you sound like one of those professors that talks down to their students just to make themselves feel smarter.

Mike Kerns
04-21-2006, 11:51 AM
Ah, Liberals....

Kaiser Toro
04-21-2006, 11:59 AM
Ah, Liberals....

Exactly what this team needed, change. Texan Conservatives would have loved Capers to stay in place and only one have option for the #1, thankfully correct thought has taken hold of this organization.

beerlover
04-21-2006, 12:13 PM
fyi- while watching a draft special on a layover at an airport far far away from Houston another patron at the bar blurted out the Texans should draft Vince Young. to say the least I was a little surprised, so I inquired. "why is that?" and he said, "Vince Young can make a bad team good" I took this to mean he was a bitter USC fan and was voicing his frustration and reasoning how VY single hadedly beat those unsurmountable Trojans, then he added, "Reggie Bush played behind a offensive line that could start in the NFL". :twocents:

now I've watched VY throwing mechanics & yes he does drop his elbow & cast off his throwing motion but you put him with a Gary Kubiac and work on specific mechancial defiencies to extend his longevity & success combined with his natural skills, leadership & gamesmenship- you have the most dominant force in the NFL. bottom line VY would make the Texans a better team. the major knock on him is that he will need time to develop/transition to the next level. I don't view that as a knock, we have David Carr for the next three years running the show, its an opportunity to take our time and develop a turely special football player. :homer:

in a couple years as a fan of the Texans I would prefeer to be watching Kubiac game planning with VY instead of Reggie Bush and stopping the later rather than the former. :stirpot:

Tale Gator
04-21-2006, 12:21 PM
"...Right now it's kind of on them to start negotiations if they want to."

--R. Bush 4/20/06
___

This amazes me that the Texans have yet to even start talks with Reggie -- very telling.

Clearly the Texans are looking at different options with the #1 pick.

hollywood_texan
04-21-2006, 12:24 PM
Like DeAngelo WIlliams said, the key is to get 8 first downs (80 yrds) as opposed to trying for one 80 yrd run. That shows the difference between a selfish player (wanting the glory for himself) and a team player (wanting the team to be successful).

A team that can sustain drives, kill the clock, and score....will help the defense dominate a game by keeping them fresh (off the field). DD shows he can help sustain drives. The OC play-calling last year killed drives!

Have a strong Offensive game plan, mixed with a solid defense...and this team is going places. Get that stud DE (Mario) and the defense will be strong. Get RB, and the offense may not necessarily be strong. A defense can shut-down one player......most offenses must change plans if a player is dominating the OL/Offense (like a Mario Williams would). That is called getting the offense out of their gameplan.

Very nice.

That is what I have been trying to say, I would rather have a running back that gets 8 first downs than one that just runs an 80 yard run in a game.

All your other points are right on!

MikeMc
04-21-2006, 05:03 PM
TY hollywood! When was David Carr signed, sealed and delivered in 2002? I am sure it wasn't T-minus 8 days prior to the draft. I think the Panthers were on the clock as of 10 days prior to the draft!

Talk about disrupting the team chemistry. If VY is drafted and DC is constantly watching over his shoulder...how can he be successful? By VY being drafted, it would say the team has no confidence in Carr. . . confidence is king for QBs.

I say Mario Williams, D'Brick...or trade down (hoping suitors are there). Anything other than that would be killing the team's chemistry. Draft VY and the above happens...draft Bush, and the same happens to DD. My other options improve the team!

hanshintigers74
04-21-2006, 06:28 PM
:drool: i know bush will be driver a carr and stay in the front driver seat for 2yr and let hope it really improve.