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View Full Version : AnyOne Else See SF trying to move up to #1 pick?


Blu
04-20-2006, 11:37 AM
They can now offer the #6 and #22 pick in the first round. 49ers have a total of 10 picks in this years draft. Alex Smith and Reggie Bush were teammates plus San Fran needs a shot in the arm. Reggie would stay in Cali. Houston would need to also get a 2nd this year or one next year IMO. Two first round picks wouldn't be enough. I'd do it in a heartbeat.:stirpot:

el toro
04-20-2006, 11:39 AM
So we give SF a major shot in the arm? Um, we're not 9ers fans.

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 11:42 AM
the total value of all their picks in this draft don't equal the value of the #1. they got the extra pick from denver because denver wants to trade up. SF will keep both picks and rebuild the team. or, even possibly, trade down from 22 to try and regain a 2nd or 3rd that they lost.

bckey
04-20-2006, 11:47 AM
I would do it for their 2 firsts this year and their 1st next year. It will be a high 1st next year because the 49ers are a bad football team.

El Amigo Invisible
04-20-2006, 11:49 AM
I think the niners should do it. I think they palnned on having MAtteo last year and done whatever necessary to pick up Reggie this year. I am sure all parties would have been happy with that especially us b/c we never would have to play them .

killeentexan
04-20-2006, 11:50 AM
SF will keep both picks and rebuild the team. or, even possibly, trade down from 22 to try and regain a 2nd or 3rd that they lost.
SF just traded a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to #22, why would they turn around and trade #22 for a 2nd or a 3rd? They either have someone they have targeted at #22 or they are thinking about packaging their 2 1st round picks to move up to #1 or #2. I don't know that I would take their 2 first rounders this year and a 2nd round pick next year. I'm still thinking we need to draft defense....I would want either Williams or Hawk. Williams will be gone by the 6th pick and Hawk may not last til then either.

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 11:50 AM
it's also a smart move money-wise. trade away all your picks for another #1 overall pick salary, the 2nd one in as many years. really, a brilliant move. the niners are moving nowhere.

Blu
04-20-2006, 11:52 AM
So we give SF a major shot in the arm? Um, we're not 9ers fans.
The 49ers have been a joke since they changed owners. Tons of USC fans that want Reggie to stay in Cali, would follow his new team. He could be the guy that brings respect to the niner franchise.
As a Texan fan, I want Bush....but I'm a realist and know that it's going to take more than Bush to get us a title. I just keep thinking how turd fans went from 1-15 to the Superbowl with the Hershal Walker trade.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 11:54 AM
the total value of all their picks in this draft don't equal the value of the #1. they got the extra pick from denver because denver wants to trade up. SF will keep both picks and rebuild the team. or, even possibly, trade down from 22 to try and regain a 2nd or 3rd that they lost.

I haven't been keeping up with the trade, but SF has two #1s now, and Denver doesn't........ How does this help Denver move up again?? wouldn't they have had a better chance. I'm expecting two #1s......... 1 relatively high the other about 20 or higher....... Denver is further from this scenario than they were before.

whiskeyrbl
04-20-2006, 11:57 AM
If you remember Denver was shopping those two 1st rd. picks for compensation next year due to cap figures this year.

El Tejano
04-20-2006, 11:57 AM
Anybody else suspicious of Denver in this draft? I have this feeling that they are keeping in close contact with Kubiak and are acquiring all these picks so that they can deal with us somehow.

However I thought that would be a good spot for us to trade with SF. At worst it lands us AJ Hawk,or D'Brick, or possibly Vince Young (possibly yall) and one of the best lineman in the draft later on.

But the value isn't really there so I don't think it will happen plus someone mentioned more that SF is trying to stay put because they don't want to spend alot of money.

jerek
04-20-2006, 12:00 PM
For a long time I was in the tradedown camp, and I guess I still am if we get good value and make good choices with those extra picks. But now -- seeing that we can choose between either Bush or Williams, and knowing what a huge impact either could have for us -- I can't say I am all about the tradedown any more.

Going to #4 would likely eliminate both Bush and Williams for us. At that point, who do we go with? Hawk? I am not sold on Ferguson, he has a lot of work to do at the pro level. He is a great athlete but IMO lacks the quick thinking to be an elite T at the next level.

Bush and Williams are about as safe as any pick we could ever hope to make, and both would have an immediate impact. I would take a godfather deal if it fell to us, sure, but I suspect the price we should and must demand will be more than any team is willing to pay.

Johnny Utah
04-20-2006, 12:15 PM
Could be.

Texans fielding more trade calls than Saints

By Todd McShay

Scouts Inc.
Archive


1. Houston Texans (2-14)
Top-five needs: OT, OG, DC, WR, RB
The pick: +Reggie Bush, RB, USC
The Texans are surprisingly fielding far more trade offers for their pick than the Saints are at No. 2. If the deal is sweet enough, there's still a chance that the Texans could trade down a few spots (Jets?) and still get an elite player at a position of greater need, such as NC State DE Mario Williams or Virginia OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson. When all the dust settles, however, the Texans are still expected to take Bush with the first overall selection. Running back is not one of the Texans' top positional needs, but Bush is far more than just a running back. He's the most explosive runner, receiver and return man that this year's class has to offer. No other rookie will make a bigger impact than Bush will for the Texans next season.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...v1&lid=tab1pos1

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 12:30 PM
SF just traded a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to #22, why would they turn around and trade #22 for a 2nd or a 3rd? They either have someone they have targeted at #22 or they are thinking about packaging their 2 1st round picks to move up to #1 or #2. I don't know that I would take their 2 first rounders this year and a 2nd round pick next year. I'm still thinking we need to draft defense....I would want either Williams or Hawk. Williams will be gone by the 6th pick and Hawk may not last til then either.

you're right, i wasn't thinking there.
I haven't been keeping up with the trade, but SF has two #1s now, and Denver doesn't........ How does this help Denver move up again?? wouldn't they have had a better chance. I'm expecting two #1s......... 1 relatively high the other about 20 or higher....... Denver is further from this scenario than they were before.
not at all. by way of the value chart, the two 1st rounders they had would have actually been worth too much if they wanted to trade up into the top 10. right now, they can package their 1st and the 2nd and 3rd they received from SF to move up as high as #5. gotta look at the value chart...

Mike Kerns
04-20-2006, 12:33 PM
They can now offer the #6 and #22 pick in the first round. 49ers have a total of 10 picks in this years draft. Alex Smith and Reggie Bush were teammates plus San Fran needs a shot in the arm. Reggie would stay in Cali. Houston would need to also get a 2nd this year or one next year IMO. Two first round picks wouldn't be enough. I'd do it in a heartbeat.:stirpot:
At first, I thought so. But then I realized that the Niners have way more needs than even we do. I think they keep their picks & try to rebuild.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 04:20 PM
you're right, i wasn't thinking there.

not at all. by way of the value chart, the two 1st rounders they had would have actually been worth too much if they wanted to trade up into the top 10. right now, they can package their 1st and the 2nd and 3rd they received from SF to move up as high as #5. gotta look at the value chart...

Oh..

I thought the idea was to offer more than face value(so-to-speak), to get the #1 overall....... aren't we asking for more than "face Value"??

kastofsna
04-20-2006, 05:43 PM
i have no clue what you're talking about.

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/NickelPackage/tradevaluechart.htm

Huge
04-20-2006, 06:45 PM
Problem with that chart is it doesn't take into account the depth of talent in each draft.

Does Reggie Bush (assuming he's the top overall pick) represent as much value as Alex Smith because Smith was the top pick last year? I wouldn't think so.

The Niners would be dumb to trade two first round picks in this draft for the top spot.

thunderkyss
04-20-2006, 09:21 PM
i have no clue what you're talking about.

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/NickelPackage/tradevaluechart.htm


I was under the impression, if anyone wanted our #1 pick, they'd have to offer more than the 3000 points it is worth......

threetoedpete
04-20-2006, 09:42 PM
I was under the impression, if anyone wanted our #1 pick, they'd have to offer more than the 3000 points it is worth......
Yeah he looses me sometimes too K. Must be a generation thingy.

What I've been thinking is, they aren't posiotioning themselves to trade up for the 3000, but the 2600 ? If we pass on Bush and Take Mario or...visa versa, they can make a play. They have no pressure for results. Either player and they're smiling. Could be like Maylock said the other night, they'll take the TE
then come back for one of the DBs if one happens to fall. But any way they now have the ammo to make a move if they want.

threetoedpete
04-20-2006, 09:58 PM
Problem with that chart is it doesn't take into account the depth of talent in each draft.

Does Reggie Bush (assuming he's the top overall pick) represent as much value as Alex Smith because Smith was the top pick last year? I wouldn't think so.

The Niners would be dumb to trade two first round picks in this draft for the top spot.
I'm with you on that thought Hugh. Maybe CC's smoke screen ain't a smoke screen. Maybe Frisco believes Mario is the real deal. If we let him slide, they move up to make a play.

I also think we're opposite of what SF was last year. Last year the value was after the first three or four picks. Once you got past the first round the tallent leveled off severly. This year the value is at the end of the first days rounds. Et. al. first round tallent falling into the second, second round tallent splashing into the third round, third round tallent falling into the fourth round. I just don't believe we'll see a 3k plus deal with all of the great players in the top of the draft. I don't know who graded this draft as a B+, but I thought they were crazy when I read it. Wide recievers have been stong for a couple of drafts. If this one is a little light, and you didn't make a move for one, nobody's fault but your own. And Just because all of the press focus is on the big three at QB, dosen't mean that one or two of the second teir guys won't come through for someone willing to be patient. My book says the '06 draft is an A. Everyone gets healthy.

Janus3
04-21-2006, 03:07 AM
i'm all for trading down, but not out of the top 4. at 4 bush, williams and d'brickshaw will probably be there. i don't see any of those 3 falling to #5 and sure as hell not #6.

Texan in Japan
04-21-2006, 04:59 AM
If SF offers the #6, #22 and additional picks this year and/or next I'd do it.

At 6, we'll probably have a choice of some of the following D'Brick, Hawk, V. Davis, Vince and Huff. I'd really like Hawk or Huff to help build our defense. However, Vernon Davis is a beast and could certainly create opportunities on offense.

Then at 22, we could target BPA at CB/S, LB, DE or OL.

Imagine walking out of the draft with AJ Hawk and Jimmy Williams (or Cromartie, Hill, Joesph, Whitner, etc.). Adding quality players like that to our defense would help tremendously. In the 2nd we could target BPA at above areas we didn't cover in 1st. Adding some high energy defenders to the vets we signed would give our defense a definite boost going into our tough early schedule.

We would still have a solid/talented offense, that would benefit from Moulds, Flanagan, Putzier, etc. + new coaches.

Bonus: If we add another 2 or 3 in '07, we continue to build through draft.

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 10:56 AM
as i've said before, this deal wasn't made because san francisco wanted to package picks to move up. it's because denver wants to move up to the top 10.

Titans | Team says no to NFL Draft trade
Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:35:43 -0700

Lee Rasizer, of the Rocky Mountain News, reports the Tennessee Titans turned down the Denver Broncos' offer of two first-round draft picks for the Titans' selection at No. 3 in the NFL Draft.

eltoro
04-21-2006, 11:02 AM
Who was Denver targeting at 3? Brick?

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 11:07 AM
i imagine mario williams, vernon davis, or one of the quarterbacks.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 11:23 AM
as i've said before, this deal wasn't made because san francisco wanted to package picks to move up. it's because denver wants to move up to the top 10.

Titans | Team says no to NFL Draft trade
Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:35:43 -0700

Lee Rasizer, of the Rocky Mountain News, reports the Tennessee Titans turned down the Denver Broncos' offer of two first-round draft picks for the Titans' selection at No. 3 in the NFL Draft.

Okay, I'm totally lost. I thought Denver traded away their 2nd 1st round pick(#29) to the Jets...... meaning Denver no longer has 2 1st to offer in a trade to move up..... The Jets now have two 1st round picks that could be used to move up.... not saying they will.

But how is Denver going to move into the top 5, without two #1s??

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 11:29 AM
they traded that pick to NYJ in the john abraham deal and got atlanta's #15 in the process. they offered the #15 and #22 to tennessee to move up. tennessee declined, so instead they negotiated with SF to move up to #6. that didn't work, so they got the best deal possible by picking up several value picks to attempt another trade up.

they can move up to #5 by trading their #15, the 37th pick they received from SF, and the 3rd rounder they got as well (68 i believe). the value chart is right on with it. they have 3 fourth-rounders, they can throw one of those in as well for extra incentive.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 11:49 AM
they traded that pick to NYJ in the john abraham deal and got atlanta's #15 in the process. they offered the #15 and #22 to tennessee to move up. tennessee declined, so instead they negotiated with SF to move up to #6. that didn't work, so they got the best deal possible by picking up several value picks to attempt another trade up.

they can move up to #5 by trading their #15, the 37th pick they received from SF, and the 3rd rounder they got as well (68 i believe). the value chart is right on with it. they have 3 fourth-rounders, they can throw one of those in as well for extra incentive.

So they think the #15 & #22(which is basically what they've got), won't get the deal done with SF?? So they trade down, and offer less value to SF??

I understand, the #15, and the #22=1830, is 230 points too high.....
I also understand the #15, #37, and #68= 1830 still 230 points too high..

To me, two #1s would be more attractive, than a #2 & a #3 that I'd have to turn into a number one....... that at the most, I'd want to turn into two #2s..

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 12:09 PM
yeah they could throw in the other 2nd instead of the 3rd. they're pretty cloes to each other anyway.

the SF deal didn't go through not because of value, but because SF didn't want to trade the pick away.

two 1sts are defintely more attractive, but since most teams live and die by the value chart, it wouldn't work. unless the other team threw in soimething else, which doesn't seem plausible.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 12:12 PM
So you'er saying they've given up trying to get into the top 5, and are now working on getting into the top 10??

kastofsna
04-21-2006, 12:38 PM
well, they want vernon davis, but SF is most likely going to take him. SF picks 6th, so the only way to get davis will be to go as low as #5, green bay. but the fact that they tried to trade with tennessee suggests they may not just want davis. they may be looking at jake plummer's replacement.....

tulexan
04-21-2006, 01:22 PM
Niners have too many holes to move up to #1. I believe other than the 2 first round picks they have either zero or one first day pick left. I can't see them giving up all of their first day picks for one player.

BigBull17
04-21-2006, 02:42 PM
If we trade for the #6 and #22, I see us trying to drop back a little more or staying put and getting a Trojan, Winston Justice. I think he is the best complete OT in the draft and horribly underrated.

el toro
04-21-2006, 04:22 PM
The 6 and 22 is all it would take? Damn we're cheap. You don't trade just to make a trade. You trade to come out ahead.

alphajoker
04-21-2006, 08:17 PM
AnyOne Else See SF trying to move up to #1 pick?
Nope.

MorKnolle
04-21-2006, 10:35 PM
Niners have too many holes to move up to #1. I believe other than the 2 first round picks they have either zero or one first day pick left. I can't see them giving up all of their first day picks for one player.

Totally agree, the 49ers were never serious contenders to trade up. They have the worst roster in the league right now and as much as they'd like to add Reggie Bush to their offense they aren't going to trade away the necessary picks to move up. They lost their chance to draft Reggie on January 1st when they beat us, if they had lost that game then they'd be at #2 behind the Saints, we'd be at #3, and the 49ers would be in a nice position to grab Bush.

texan279
04-22-2006, 01:54 PM
from www.kffl.com

49ers | Team leaning towards keeping draft choices
Sat, 22 Apr 2006 10:03:20 -0700

The Contra Costa Times reports the San Francisco 49ers are leaning towards keeping their current draft picks instead of trying to move up in the NFL Draft. Head coach Mike Nolan did not rule out the move, but said the team was leaning towards using their No. 6 overall and No. 22 overall to acquire two players who can start from Day 1.

Tale Gator
04-22-2006, 02:00 PM
One thing to consider about SF is they have a very good RB in Frank Gore -- so moving up for Bush probably isn't an ultimate priority.

CITY CAT
04-22-2006, 02:30 PM
They aren't likely to do that. It is like having 2 QB salaries, and SF is not willing to give up a bunch of players anyhow.