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Dime
04-17-2006, 10:24 PM
Ever since the second year, there has been a trend.

What might you ask. The fans high on a player that the staff isnt.

2003- Sean Taylor did not make the team.. the screams were heard of pain and horror.

2004- Derrik Johnson- Was skipped over when we traded for a extra third (which got us 2nd pick of the third round).

2005- Can Bush be the boy this time that we skip over for someone else? Lots of people finding Mario Williams is getting a bunch of press lately. Do we trade down or take him here. Wow.

TheRealJoker
04-17-2006, 10:28 PM
Whichever way we go will change the looks of our franchise for quite sometime.

Sco-tai
04-18-2006, 01:39 AM
Dime...uh....sorry. You're trying to sensationalize a Scooby-doo episode.

What's next....your 4 paragraphs on why Harrington was better than Carr....or the blockbuster known as AJ vs. Charles Rogers.

I hear the DYNAMO needs more fans. Have at it (with poignant thoughts like that).

Go Texans!

Texans Horror
04-18-2006, 10:17 AM
I heard the same stuff - that we might pass over RB. I think this is smoke and mirrors bs to see if anyone wants to pull a Ditka.

jerek
04-18-2006, 10:31 AM
I don't think it is smoke and mirrors. I think it is an honest thought that we might take Mario. I think the staff is still leaning toward Bush -- I would put it at 60/40 myself -- but IMO Mario is hands down one of the best defensive prospects ever in recent years and would give us a ferocious pass rush, which of course is key to causing turnovers in the passing game and bolsters all-round defense. He is young and raw still (not many moves) but hey, he is already that good, will only get better, and is "NFL-ready" to start for any team at the age of 21.

I still think we will end up taking Bush, but don't fool yourself; if Mario comes on and is willing to play for less money, or something else as yet unforseen occurs, I think there is a very decent chance at Mario becoming a Texan April 29.

Texans Horror
04-18-2006, 10:57 AM
I'm not trying to negate Mario, but as we get closer to the draft, more and more players will become "the next big thing." Mario has a good chance of being one, but I still think this is a ploy to test the waters/help sign Reggie. The only reason to take a Mario, IMO, is as part of a trade-down deal, and I think that would be a Ditka.

However, if I remember correctly, Cass was the GM of the Redskins who pulled said Ditka, so who knows. Interesting info on the Ditka maneuver and the players the Saints lost:

http://www.drafthistory.com/articles/article23.html

DRAMA
04-18-2006, 11:14 AM
It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.

Nawzer
04-18-2006, 11:31 AM
It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.

I think you hit the the nail on the head. It would have been incredibly stupid if the Texans did not bring in other top prospects to visit. You want to have as much information as you can possibly have before heading into the draft. And that Adam Schefter piece that's flying around here is not something I'm buying into. It doesn't make sense to pass up on the most dynamic college football player in recent memory over Mario Williams who's a physical specimen, but an inconsistent player at N.C.State. We need to win now and Bush gives us that option immediately. I would not be surprise at all if D'Brickashaw Ferguson and A.J. Hawk come into town for a visit.

El Tejano
04-18-2006, 11:42 AM
I also believe Reggie will sign because of his dream to be the first pick ever.

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 11:44 AM
I tend to agree with Jerek. Mario is a serious consideration, but in no way has he passed Bush on the wishlist. I think Bush is our guy, but he could price himself out of the spot or just in general our staff could feel we could get a good RB next year or later in the draft even a Jerious Norwood in the 4th could compete. I am one that thinks DD is good, but Morency if he learns to just run and not dance would be better. I think Bush will give us tremendous options on the offense side of the ball and will be a steve smith type guy at RB. On the other side of that Mario is rated higher than Peppers coming out and is pretty much the best DE to come out since well maybe Peppers or Courtney Brown. Now Brown had some bad years, but coming out of college he was raw.

My comparisons.
Mario: Reggie White w/Julius Peppers speed
Bush: Marshall Faulk w/Steve Smith's hands and toughness

We cannot go wrong either way. We will get alot of options either defensively or offensively. We are going to get a very big time playmaker in this draft and I can't wait till the 29th. Will be Tivo-ing it since I will be in Oslo during the draft.

eltoro
04-18-2006, 11:51 AM
There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...

jerek
04-18-2006, 12:17 PM
It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.

Thank you, grammar police. I think that, all things considered, Bush is the slightly wiser choice for this team, but I do not consider him the hands-down consensus pick for the Houston Texans, and it pleases me to see that our FO at least appears to be giving due diligence on this in bringing in other worthwhile prospects.

Williams is as much a game changer on defense -- you know, the boring half of football that wins championships -- as Reggie is on offense. And Williams' measurables are all superior to Julius Peppers, so maybe my "ever" statement isn't so farfetched. The only question marks on Williams are simply lack of national press coverage and exposure. The only reason you aren't hearing much about the guy is because the Reggie/Vince wars have been so ****ing loud in the national media -- let alone on this board in particular -- so do not pretend that Williams is just some also-ran who was brought in so Kubes could do a song and dance for the papers and grab a bargaining chip.

I understand your support for Bush and I would tend to agree with it, but IMO you are parroting the reigning prevalant thought and not giving Williams (or the possibility of a trade, of which no serious trade offer will be made or considered for another week or so) a fair chance.

whiskeyrbl
04-18-2006, 12:37 PM
I am definitly set in the RB camp,but will stand behind whatever our FO does. So far I think they have made smart decisions in FA,which brings me to this. Why would you sign to DE's,if you plan to draft a DE. Does'nt make alot of sense, since many believed we overpayed for Weaver. I for one would like to see alot of our #1 pick. If we take a DE that would mean our offense would suck(again) and our D would have to be on the field for a long,long time. I'm confused as to what they are doing but they're my team and will stand behind them 100%.C'mon 4-29-06!!!!!!!!!!!!!:brickwall

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 12:43 PM
There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...

It does appear to be stupid to people who do not look at it from a macro economic standpoint. This is comical as many people on this thread think it came out of no where, especially when those same people were arguing against the feasability of this happening with other posters. I seem to remember it was the posters, pushing the notion that we could take Williams, were stupid and now the FO is stupid.

Please carry on....

Errant Hothy
04-18-2006, 12:47 PM
From the current ESPN chat:

jorge ( pa)
What's the word on Bush? I hear he may not go number one. If he doesn't go one where does he go and does that start some trading to get him?

TODD MCSHAY
That rumor has begun to circultate, but I'm not buying it. The Texans brought in M. Williams for 2 reasons: 1) In case they trade down, and 2) In order to gain some sort of leverage in the contract negotiations with Bush's agent, Joel Segal.

TODD MCSHAY
I have heard that the Jets are aggressively seaking a trade with the Texans b/c they want Bush. However, it would take an awful lot to get the Texans to budge -- picks No.'s 4, 29, 35 and possibly another 3rd rounder thrown in there.

PART II

chad(san antonio)
Let's say the Texans are able to trade down, would Vince Young be a possible pick say at 4 or 5?

TODD MCSHAY
No chance. If the Texans trade down it will be with the mindset of drafting either DE M. Williams or OT D. Ferguson.

Texans Horror
04-18-2006, 01:06 PM
TODD MCSHAY
I have heard that the Jets are aggressively seaking a trade with the Texans b/c they want Bush. However, it would take an awful lot to get the Texans to budge -- picks No.'s 4, 29, 35 and possibly another 3rd rounder thrown in there.


I'm not sure that even this would be enough picks. Every year is the best draft ever. So taking a bunch of players who are touted as the best players ever might not be the wisest decision. However, I have to admit that all those late picks in the first and the early second round would give the Texans a lot of nice projects.

Assuming they take Mario at 4, who do you think the other picks would go to? They could easily take one or two linemen and a pretty reputable cornerback/safety, I think.

GP
04-18-2006, 01:19 PM
There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...

Disagree with you on Vince...I'd take Bush or Hawk or Ferguson or Williams over Young. He'd be my last of the big 5 to take.

I do agree with you that the only way we should take Williams, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. The Aints threw a huge wrench in the machine, though, when they acquired Brees this offseason. Now THEY hold the trade card to be most coveted by teams desiring to move up.

This recent Wlliams hyping is by Texans front office design because they realize they haven't played the game enough...and they're going on a fishing expedition to see if they can trade out at all. Too little, too late if you ask me.

It'll be Texans taking Bush at no. 1 overall.

El Tejano
04-18-2006, 01:58 PM
What I'm trippin on is how all of you don't want to draft Reggie because he "never played against any NFL like teams" but with this Mario Williams kid who played for North Carolina State (who plays teams like NC, Duke etc...) noone is even thinking of that.

Dime
04-18-2006, 02:18 PM
Dime...uh....sorry. You're trying to sensationalize a Scooby-doo episode.

What's next....your 4 paragraphs on why Harrington was better than Carr....or the blockbuster known as AJ vs. Charles Rogers.

I hear the DYNAMO needs more fans. Have at it (with poignant thoughts like that).

Go Texans!

How can a Rookie here comment? You dont even know the point. Wait till I jingle your bell later before you talk.

For the rest of you, I just remember seeing people thinking we are going with a player like Taylor, or DJ and have been let down when someone who might be a shoe in, might not be on the top of the list. Come the 29th.. I hope we take Bush, but if we dont take him or trade down, I am fearing the woes to hit this board again. It took 3-4 months to get people over DJ. Same for Taylor.

jerek
04-18-2006, 02:48 PM
What I'm trippin on is how all of you don't want to draft Reggie because he "never played against any NFL like teams" but with this Mario Williams kid who played for North Carolina State (who plays teams like NC, Duke etc...) noone is even thinking of that.

It is a frivolous comparison IMO (Williams is the man but Bush won't succeed) but the same kind of talk is nothing new on this board (Young sucks because he just played against college teams but Bush is great, vice versa).

However, what people do not really grasp of Williams, he is pretty much unrivaled in the history of the game as far as a total athletic package. No one in the history of football has combined his speed, size, and strength at the D-line position. The guy is 6'7", 295 and has been timed in the 40 and cone drills as being faster than many NFL LBs. That, my friends, is a freak of nature.

Bush has fantastic speed and moves and his game tape speaks for self. He is a fantastic athlete in his own right, and while Reggie Bush himself is not readily comparable to any past players (some have said Sayers, Sanders, Faulk, etc.) you are either too young to remember or some kind of revisionist historian if you think Bush hasn't been done before in some form or fashion, athletically speaking. Many NFL scouts and analysts are calling Mario Williams the best pure athlete in this draft, and rightfully (and verifiably so).

I still say we are going Bush, but this is not a smokescreen, this is the Texans taking a serious look at the real deal on the defensive side of the ball. I think Bush is slightly the more advantageous pick in terms of what he brings to the table for the Texans, but as guys like KT have pointed out, Bush's agent allegedly intends to take Bush's suitors for every last nickel he can get, and if a guy like Mario Williams is willing to play for substantially less, well that is going to balance the already close scales in his favor.

Will be an interesting ten days, that is for sure!

tulexan
04-18-2006, 02:56 PM
Passing on Derrick Johnson is different from Sean Taylor not being on the team. Sean Taylor very well could have been picked by the Texans if he was available.

eltoro
04-18-2006, 03:02 PM
It does appear to be stupid to people who do not look at it from a macro economic standpoint. This is comical as many people on this thread think it came out of no where, especially when those same people were arguing against the feasability of this happening with other posters. I seem to remember it was the posters, pushing the notion that we could take Williams, were stupid and now the FO is stupid.

Please carry on....

Are you being serious? What does overpaying for a draft prospect have to do with a team being fiscally responsible? How does it play into your "macro economic" analysis? Sure, you may get him cheaper than a RB or a QB. However, you would still be paying him much more than if you had moved down a few spots and signed him.

DRAMA
04-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Thank you, grammar police. I think that, all things considered, Bush is the slightly wiser choice for this team, but I do not consider him the hands-down consensus pick for the Houston Texans, and it pleases me to see that our FO at least appears to be giving due diligence on this in bringing in other worthwhile prospects.

Williams is as much a game changer on defense -- you know, the boring half of football that wins championships -- as Reggie is on offense. And Williams' measurables are all superior to Julius Peppers, so maybe my "ever" statement isn't so farfetched. The only question marks on Williams are simply lack of national press coverage and exposure. The only reason you aren't hearing much about the guy is because the Reggie/Vince wars have been so ****ing loud in the national media -- let alone on this board in particular -- so do not pretend that Williams is just some also-ran who was brought in so Kubes could do a song and dance for the papers and grab a bargaining chip.

I understand your support for Bush and I would tend to agree with it, but IMO you are parroting the reigning prevalant thought and not giving Williams (or the possibility of a trade, of which no serious trade offer will be made or considered for another week or so) a fair chance.


Jerek - my bad. My post didn't come across like I meant it to. You're one of THE guys I do agree with on here the most. What I meant by 'ever' wasn't grammtical. What I was trying to say but failed at was my opinion of Bush and recent backs. I meant that I look at Reggie as being one of those 'ever' type guys but with Peppers only a few years back, I don't look at Williams as an 'ever' type player. I DO look at Mario as a GREAT player and easily a #2 player in the draft but look at Bush as an 'ever' type ya know?

My bad, Jerek - I didn't mean that post to come across like that... :redtowel:

jerek
04-18-2006, 03:14 PM
Jerek - my bad. My post didn't come across like I meant it to. You're one of THE guys I do agree with on here the most. What I meant by 'ever' wasn't grammtical. What I was trying to say but failed at was my opinion of Bush and recent backs. I meant that I look at Reggie as being one of those 'ever' type guys but with Peppers only a few years back, I don't look at Williams as an 'ever' type player. I DO look at Mario as a GREAT player and easily a #2 player in the draft but look at Bush as an 'ever' type ya know?

My bad, Jerek - I didn't mean that post to come across like that... :redtowel:

No worries, and I get it now. Thanks for the vote of support.

Like I say, IMO Williams is just as much, if not more a revolutionization of the DE as Bush is the RB. It's just that, given DD's worrisome injury issues and our need for another explosive playmaker on offensive, I think Bush would probably be the slightly better choice for the Texans. I have seen talented DC's (like Crennel) take a bunch of so-so to pretty good defenders (talent and athletic-wise) and get plenty of blitz and QB pressure, whereas a guy like DD is going to grind you out a lot of tough yards, but he isn't that "homerun" threat out of the backfield.

IMO, a "game changing" RB is slightly more impact for your big picture than a "game changing" DE. Sucks cause I would love for us to take Williams, but I believe that all things considered, we should and will still opt for Bush.

El Tejano
04-18-2006, 03:16 PM
I think it is wise to remember what all Bush does for you depth wise and just overall. He provides for you 3 different positions at PR/KR, WR, and RB.

El Amigo Invisible
04-18-2006, 03:17 PM
I think it is wise to remember what all Bush does for you depth wise and just overall. He provides for you 3 different positions at PR/KR, WR, and RB.
Aren't we set at those positions? I thought we were but I heard something about Mathis being uncoachable.

jerek
04-18-2006, 03:27 PM
I think it is wise to remember what all Bush does for you depth wise and just overall. He provides for you 3 different positions at PR/KR, WR, and RB.

I still assert we are not going to utilize a 50M guy, our starting RB, and our big-time dangerous receiving option at KR. KR/PR is historically a position more vulnerable to injury and using Bush like that goes against every page of the NFL Conventional Wisdom handbook, and as much as I am counting on Kubes to mix it up, to be unconventional, and to not use the word "execute" in a single speech this year, I promise you are coaches have read said handbook :)

Other than that, I agree with you, part of my case for Bush being the Slightly Better pick.

Aren't we set at those positions? I thought we were but I heard something about Mathis being uncoachable. We are set but Bush is a noteworthy upgrade at both RB and WR (Andre, Moulds, and Bush in the slot is a ferocious lineup at WR). As far as Mathis being uncoachable I suspect that is a load of malarkey; it's not that the guy couldn't be hard headed or that player/coach issues wouldn't exist or that I know he is some kind of super character guy, but Justice was the guy who reported on this controversy and it related to last year's coaches, whom I am pretty sure no one liked in the first place. Until something hard comes out about him beefing with this year's staff, I will chalk it up to the RJ Sensationalist Story count.

DRAMA
04-18-2006, 03:31 PM
...and to not use the word "execute" in a single speech this year...

OMG - I just had a Capers flashback...


...and threw up in my mouth a little! :yahoo:

jerek
04-18-2006, 03:49 PM
OMG - I just had a Capers flashback...


...and threw up in my mouth a little! :yahoo:

Seriously. I understand that executing is a necessary part of successful sports, but it got to the point where you just couldn't believe in Dom's ability to formulate a winning game plan and get his players to buy into a word he said. It's like, Dom, some things have to boil down to something else besides "execute." I wanted him to come out one day and say, "you know, my man Vic Fangio just didn't know what the hell was going on out there today," or "I'm ****ing sick of our guys playing like ****ies" or "you know what, some day Corey Bradford is going to catch a ball" ... In all seriousness, I don't think that you should call out your players in the media like that ... but say something besides "we didn't execute." Tell us you honestly didn't know what you were doing when you called a Cover 0 at midfield with 0:07 left on the clock ... tell us you didn't gameplan for your kicker missing 4 FGs from inside 35 yards ... tell us Miss Cleo told you to draft Travis Johnson ... just tell us SOMETHING, DOM!

Ya know?

bigtex77
04-18-2006, 04:06 PM
However, what people do not really grasp of Williams, he is pretty much unrivaled in the history of the game as far as a total athletic package. No one in the history of football has combined his speed, size, and strength at the D-line position. The guy is 6'7", 295 and has been timed in the 40 and cone drills as being faster than many NFL LBs. That, my friends, is a freak of nature.

I agree, but you using the word "freak" got me to thinking, what is the size/speed comparison between Williams and Jevon Kearse when he came out?

Maddict5
04-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Williams is as much a game changer on defense -- you know, the boring half of football that wins championships -- as Reggie is on offense. And Williams' measurables are all superior to Julius Peppers, so maybe my "ever" statement isn't so farfetched. The only question marks on Williams are simply lack of national press coverage and exposure. The only reason you aren't hearing much about the guy is because the Reggie/Vince wars have been so ****ing loud in the national media -- let alone on this board in particular -- so do not pretend that Williams is just some also-ran who was brought in so Kubes could do a song and dance for the papers and grab a bargaining chip.


the only question mark on mario is, if he is such an unstoppable 'freak', why was he so inconsistent in college collecting most of his sacks at the end of the year?4 v maryland i recall....while being held sackless in alot of games...the NC line was excellent with 1st/2nd round prospects like McCargo and Lawson on it so its not like teams could focus solely on him

Say whatever you want about reggie, but he always produced consistently in college, even when teams focused on shutting him down

PS im not too bothered whichever 1 we take but Mario is by no means a certain phenom like alot are making him out to be

tulexan
04-18-2006, 05:21 PM
the only question mark on mario is, if he is such an unstoppable 'freak', why was he so inconsistent in college collecting most of his sacks at the end of the year?4 v maryland i recall....while being held sackless in alot of games...the NC line was excellent with 1st/2nd round prospects like McCargo and Lawson on it so its not like teams could focus solely on him


That is right. He had his best games against Maryland (4 sacks) and Southern Miss (4 sacks). He had another game where he had 3 sacks but I can't remember the exact team. That means that he had 55% of his season sacks against 2 teams and 78% of his sacks in 3 games. Mario also had 1 sack for the first five games of the season.

I would have loved to have seen what the unstoppable freak would have done against offensive powerhouses like USC and Texas, not Duke, UNC, Wake Forest, and the other weak offensive teams in the ACC. ACC was loaded with defensive teams, but had one good offensive team (VT) and he had zero sacks against an inexperienced Marcus Vick in the first game of the season.

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 05:21 PM
Well this is an interesting arguement on Bush v. Mario. I am a Mario and defense guy first and always. I think Bush is pretty freaking spectacular, but I would rather have a defense that is scary than an offense that is scary. Yeah most people like watching offenses fly about and put up points, but nothing gets me in gear like watching a defense completely confuse and dismantle an offense. I mean the Pittsburgh/Indy game was awesome. Watching a great QB like Peyton Manning flustered by a killer defense was simply phenominal. Mind you I do not think our defense will be at that level just by drafting Mario Williams, a FS, and a LB, but it could get relatively close.

Bush to me is just not that huge an upgrade over DD and Morency. He is not an upgrade at all over Mathis in the KR. We need a PR and he would fill that role in special circumstances like Steve Smith does. I honestly can see Bush putting up 1200 and 13TDs plus another 400 rec yards. That is freakin impressive, and that is why I really think he will be the pick. I simply would rather see a DE putting up 14 sacks, 3FF, and 18tackles for loss to add to his 60+ tackles. I just think that disrupts and influences actions more.

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 05:29 PM
Looks like some dominoes are falling into place. Mort is reporting that an impromptu meeting was done between Bush and the Jets. Moreover at least six highly respected scouts are saying that Williams is the top guy in the draft and that both Bush and Williams are HOF potential players.

I can see why most on this board think that Bush is the only decision at #1. :rolleyes:

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 05:34 PM
KT you sound upset that some posters are not as opened minded to the prospect of adding someone other than Reggie or Vince.

I generally agree with you on your thought process on money spent vs gain with each player, and if I remember a post correctly you and Morknolle both said that many scouts had Williams rated as their top guys. Bottomline Kubiak will have to decide offense or defense. Please let him choose Defense.

Peek, Weaver, Payne, Williams- yep that is a 50sack unit if I ever saw one. Hell Seattle did it and we are going to run a very similar system to them.

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 05:50 PM
KT you sound upset that some posters are not as opened minded to the prospect of adding someone other than Reggie or Vince.

I generally agree with you on your thought process on money spent vs gain with each player, and if I remember a post correctly you and Morknolle both said that many scouts had Williams rated as their top guys. Bottomline Kubiak will have to decide offense or defense. Please let him choose Defense.

Peek, Weaver, Payne, Williams- yep that is a 50sack unit if I ever saw one. Hell Seattle did it and we are going to run a very similar system to them.

It would be nice to have more open mindedness because it would foster debate on the merits of our needs, cap, coaches scheme vs personnel signed and then available players in the draft. I understand it is not sexy, nor can one put their findings/musings in a 300 word or less post, but it would seem a lot less like a popularity party and more like a discussion on an NFL team.

swtbound07
04-18-2006, 06:00 PM
if its mario...GOOD. let it be mario. Im ready for the suspense to be over with so i can change my avatar if necessary.

BeReal
04-18-2006, 06:15 PM
Peek, Weaver, Payne, Williams- yep that is a 50sack unit if I ever saw one. Hell Seattle did it and we are going to run a very similar system to them.

This may be stupid but how do you come up with a number like 50? Williams is good, but he isn't THAT good. Each of those guys would have to have over 12 sacks for the year. Weaver, Peek, and Payne didn't even approach double digit sack totals last year, the closest was Peek at 6. Please correct me if I'm wrong.:confused:

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 06:17 PM
Be Real I am sorry I meant defensive unit not 50 between just the linemen. I thought that would have been seen by mentioning Seattle. Williams should produce as many sacks as Peppers or Freeney, and his goal is to break Kearse's record.

BeReal
04-18-2006, 06:24 PM
That's what I thought. I read this....


Peek, Weaver, Payne, Williams- yep that is a 50sack unit if I ever saw one.

so I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading it in the wrong context.

Maddict5
04-18-2006, 06:29 PM
I can see why most on this board think that Bush is the only decision at #1. :rolleyes:

i dont blame people who dont see mario as number 1 material- he has be ineffective against less-than-stellar o-lines so what happens when he comes up against nfl type o-lines. yes he has excellent measurables but he hasn't been able to put it all together....bush, who's measurables aren't as good, has so you can see why some people are more receptive to him going #1..all i know is that id feel much better if mario had registered a sack or 2 in every game other than going into fits against weaker opposition

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 06:37 PM
I am pretty sure Maddict that both Mario and Bush have been first team All Conference. So they both have been pretty successful. Just wanted to make that point. It is not like this kid is coming out of nowhere. He has been the best DE listed since the beginning of the season.

hanshintigers74
04-18-2006, 06:42 PM
Whichever way we go will change the looks of our franchise for quite sometime.


i agree,we have new coach and new look,it might change fan more then bush and vy.

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 08:26 PM
i dont blame people who dont see mario as number 1 material- he has be ineffective against less-than-stellar o-lines so what happens when he comes up against nfl type o-lines. yes he has excellent measurables but he hasn't been able to put it all together....bush, who's measurables aren't as good, has so you can see why some people are more receptive to him going #1..all i know is that id feel much better if mario had registered a sack or 2 in every game other than going into fits against weaker opposition

Many push that arguement who are pro Bush. Many would feel better about Bush if he were the go to guy on 4th and 2 with the National Championship game on the line. His coach thought he had a better back on the field. It is hard to believe, but it happened.

It is easy to go with the tic tac stuff, but my arguement is not about Bush, it is about signing the best defensive player in the draft and that is Williams, Hawk and Huff in my opinion. Only Williams is a consideration at the #1.

tulexan
04-18-2006, 09:08 PM
Many push that arguement who are pro Bush. Many would feel better about Bush if he were the go to guy on 4th and 2 with the National Championship game on the line. His coach thought he had a better back on the field. It is hard to believe, but it happened.

The difference between the Bush argument and the Mario argument is that Bush wasn't on the field because Pete Carroll made a stupid move. Mario was inconsistent because he is an inconsistent player. I'm sure that if Pete Carroll could do the 4th and 2 play over again he would have Reggie on the field in some way.

MorKnolle
04-18-2006, 10:24 PM
i dont blame people who dont see mario as number 1 material- he has be ineffective against less-than-stellar o-lines so what happens when he comes up against nfl type o-lines. yes he has excellent measurables but he hasn't been able to put it all together....bush, who's measurables aren't as good, has so you can see why some people are more receptive to him going #1..all i know is that id feel much better if mario had registered a sack or 2 in every game other than going into fits against weaker opposition

I can see your point, but at the same time Mario has impacted games in more ways than just getting sacks. Myself and Coach C both think that the Florida St. game was his best of the year, in which he didn't excel in terms of statistics (he only had 1 sack), but he applied constant pressure on the QB, he clearly disturbed their running game to that side of the field, and he was clearly the best player on the field. You could just as easily say that Reggie Bush (or Vince Young) were inconsistent throughout the year (I would feel better if Bush put up 100+ rushing yards every game, I'm not just saying that to start an argument, just being truthful).

tulexan
04-18-2006, 10:32 PM
I can see your point, but at the same time Mario has impacted games in more ways than just getting sacks. Myself and Coach C both think that the Florida St. game was his best of the year, in which he didn't excel in terms of statistics (he only had 1 sack), but he applied constant pressure on the QB, he clearly disturbed their running game to that side of the field, and he was clearly the best player on the field. You could just as easily say that Reggie Bush (or Vince Young) were inconsistent throughout the year (I would feel better if Bush put up 100+ rushing yards every game, I'm not just saying that to start an argument, just being truthful).


But Florida State is another ACC team that has a great defense and a terrible offense. That is the point that I was trying to make. The ACC had a bunch of good teams, but none of them except for VT had a decent offense. VT didn't even have a great offense, but they were much better than anyone else in the ACC.

kastofsna
04-18-2006, 10:45 PM
florida state has more talent on their line than any other ACC team that's for sure.