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Mike Kerns
04-17-2006, 08:12 PM
Adam Schefler was on & he said we haven't even talked to Reggie Bush's people about negotiations & that we didn't even let him meet with some important people when he visited here. Pretty much stated that we don't seem very interested, while we have been in relentless pursuit of contract negotiations with Mario Williams. Wow, the backlash from passing on Young AND Bush...........

El Amigo Invisible
04-17-2006, 08:14 PM
I agree. You know D'Brick is looking pretty good if this is true.

kastofsna
04-17-2006, 08:33 PM
yeah i saw that. he was pretty wrong on all of his information, especially the raiders being "very interested" in a quarterback. they will 100% not draft a QB in the first round, book it.

PapaL
04-17-2006, 08:56 PM
yeah i saw that. he was pretty wrong on all of his information, especially the raiders being "very interested" in a quarterback. they will 100% not draft a QB in the first round, book it.

Inside source or are you sold on Aaron Brooks?

YoungTexanFan
04-17-2006, 08:58 PM
yeah i saw that. he was pretty wrong on all of his information, especially the raiders being "very interested" in a quarterback. they will 100% not draft a QB in the first round, book it.

Why would that be? You really think they want to book their franchise on a 3rd round, 2nd year guy? Do you really think Collins is the answer? Do you really think Davis would pass on Young or Cutler if available? What is your logic behind this verbadem?

O.G.
04-17-2006, 08:58 PM
yeah i saw that. he was pretty wrong on all of his information, especially the raiders being "very interested" in a quarterback. they will 100% not draft a QB in the first round, book it.

Until I hear it from a second source, I have to be alittle iffy on this. Just out of the blue....... The Texans didn't even go to Mario Williams Pro Day.

kiwitexansfan
04-17-2006, 08:59 PM
The prospect of getting Mario Williams excites me.

However I find the fact we aren't even talking to Bush about a potential contract intriguing

PapaL
04-17-2006, 09:02 PM
Why would that be? You really think they want to book their franchise on a 3rd round, 2nd year guy? Do you really think Collins is the answer? Do you really think Davis would pass on Young or Cutler if available? What is your logic behind this verbadem?

Collins is no longer a Raider. He is a FA who is possibly going to sign with the Ravens or even retire. They signed Aaron Brooks (formerly of N.O.) to a two year contract. Just long before a draftee of this years drafts takes over.

Trap_Star
04-17-2006, 09:05 PM
Adam Schefler was on & he said we haven't even talked to Reggie Bush's people about negotiations & that we didn't even let him meet with some important people when he visited here. Pretty much stated that we don't seem very interested, while we have been in relentless pursuit of contract negotiations with Mario Williams. Wow, the backlash from passing on Young AND Bush...........


SMOKESCREEN...:spy:

Mike Kerns
04-17-2006, 09:13 PM
Here is the official story:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9381854

For the first time, there is legitimate reason to think that USC running back Reggie Bush is not going to be wind up in Houston, the city that currently holds the No. 1 overall pick.
This does not come from one source or from one team. This comes from multiple sources, from across the league, without any agenda to push.

The mounting evidence includes this:

As of Monday, the Texans had not had any contract discussions with Bush and his representatives. None.

Yet the Texans have approached North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, trying to see if he would be receptive to discussing a deal.

But the evidence goes beyond contracts. When Bush was in Houston, a certain segment of the organization never introduced itself to the running back. This might not be unusual, but if the organization was convinced it was taking a certain player, it should be rolling out the welcome mat with everyone trying to make the player feel as at home as possible. This, according to those who know Bush, did not happen.

Then there is the simple and significant matter of need. Within the past year, the Texans signed running back Domanick Davis to a long-term extension. They also drafted wide receiver Jerome Mathis, the return man who went to the Pro Bowl during his rookie season. The Texans know they have a dependable running back and return man, the two spots Bush fills.

Houston's greater need is at defensive end, and, just as much, at left tackle, a position that could be filled by Virginia's D'Brickashaw Ferguson, who is expected to go in the top four picks.

Yet whether Houston winds up with Williams or Ferguson is unknown. What is known is that Bush no longer is a lock for Houston.

As a person in the Bush camp said Monday, "Do I have a feeling that Reggie is going to Houston? No, I have a feeling that he's not."

:crying: Time to change the avatar...& a lot of people may be looking for new monikers soon...myself included.

TexanFan881
04-17-2006, 09:31 PM
There are much bigger needs than DE. If we don't get Bush I want to see us trade down or would rather see us get a freak in Vernon Davis. This info on us potentially not drafting Bush makes me think that the organization is doing a really good job trying to hide who we are going to pick and try to get teams to trade with us. If we aren't going to get Bush I would much rather see us trade down than get Mario Williams.

CoastalTexan
04-17-2006, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't mind Mario at all. We would have an intimidating D-Line.

gtexan02
04-17-2006, 09:32 PM
I for one will be devastated if we pass on Bush. Passing on the absolute consensus #1 overall bpa in the past decade of drafts for anyone else will be totally unforgiveable. Even if he turns out bad, no one would be able to second guess the decision. Passing on him will be second guessed for our entire existence. If we pass on Bush, we will not only be the laughing stock of the media, we will never get the national attention we deserve

LoneStarState
04-17-2006, 09:34 PM
David Delotti (sp?) on 790 newsbreaks this afternoon reported that the Texans will begin discussions with Bush so that he can be signed prior to draft day. He said that there is still a faction inside the Texans org that want Mario Williams. In fact, listening now... he and said it again.

That's it for now...

Dr. Toro
04-17-2006, 09:47 PM
I for one will be devastated if we pass on Bush. Passing on the absolute consensus #1 overall bpa in the past decade of drafts for anyone else will be totally unforgiveable. Even if he turns out bad, no one would be able to second guess the decision. Passing on him will be second guessed for our entire existence. If we pass on Bush, we will not only be the laughing stock of the media, we will never get the national attention we deserve

Don't buy the hype... you can't definitively say a part-time receiver/back/offensive specialist is the best prospect in 10 years, it's foolishness. Superlatives generate hits, sales, and ratings. If Bush projected as LT but faster, you might have an argument, but a guy projected to get 10-20 touches per game... that's another matter. LT's pretty darn explosive and he's averaged 28 touches for his career. Durability is the difference, 5'10 220... not saying Bush isn't durable, just that he doesn't project as a workhorse.

TexanFan881
04-17-2006, 09:52 PM
David Delotti (sp?) on 790 newsbreaks this afternoon reported that the Texans will begin discussions with Bush so that he can be signed prior to draft day. He said that there is still a faction inside the Texans org that want Mario Williams. In fact, listening now... he and said it again.

That's it for now...

Thanks for the update :thumbup I figured they would have to talk to Bush to find out if he wants too much money in the first place...

TreWardTxn
04-17-2006, 10:02 PM
The Texans are going to end up passing on either Bush or Young this draft, so the likelihood of the org being "second guessed" after this draft is pretty high.

Initially I've stated that there is no way you can pass on two "generational" prospects, but if they don't go with the QB, who if successful, can lead the team for 15+ years, then I have to vote for the havoc-causing DE. Kubiak's scheme doesn't necessarily need a D'Brick, but our defense for sure needs to create some pressure. Manning doesn't look too good when that pocket closes in on him...

kastofsna
04-17-2006, 10:04 PM
Until I hear it from a second source, I have to be alittle iffy on this. Just out of the blue....... The Texans didn't even go to Mario Williams Pro Day.
miami didn't even talk to ronnie brown before last year's draft.
Inside source or are you sold on Aaron Brooks?
definitely not sold on brooks.


i still don't see houston passing on bush.

thunderkyss
04-17-2006, 10:14 PM
SMOKESCREEN...:spy:

Here is the official story:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9381854



:crying: Time to change the avatar...& a lot of people may be looking for new monikers soon...myself included.

Try walking against the wind, every now & then. It's liberating.

This may very well be a smokescreen. Teams ought to be flocking to our door with trade offers.... the Texans #1 is now more valuable(sp) than N.O. #2. If they didn't know it before, we will now entertain offers........ and if you want to stay ahead of whatever N.O. or whoever gets that spot, you've got to come see daddy.

thunderkyss
04-17-2006, 10:25 PM
I for one will be devastated if we pass on Bush. Passing on the absolute consensus #1 overall bpa in the past decade of drafts for anyone else will be totally unforgiveable. Even if he turns out bad, no one would be able to second guess the decision. Passing on him will be second guessed for our entire existence. If we pass on Bush, we will not only be the laughing stock of the media, we will never get the national attention we deserve

Getting to the playoffs will get you national games. Winning that game, the one the week after, and the one the week after that, will get you national televised games.


Oh yeah, that's also how you earn those televised games.

Tulip
04-17-2006, 11:01 PM
yeah i saw that. he was pretty wrong on all of his information, especially the raiders being "very interested" in a quarterback. they will 100% not draft a QB in the first round, book it.

I don't believe much of anything coming out of any camp about this draft, but Oakland has, at the very least, put itself in the position to be "very interested" in a quarterback. Brooks's contract is perfect timing for a 2006 draftee.

LoneStarState
04-17-2006, 11:16 PM
Mark Bermann on KRIV 26 said nothing about the Texans. I think if there was something big going on - he'd break it in Houston...

Johnny Utah
04-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Mark Bermann on KRIV 26 said nothing about the Texans. I think if there was something big going on - he'd break it in Houston...

His source only runs with the Rockets.

I'm cool with the Texans taking Mario but only if they trade down to do it. If they pick #1 it's got to be Bush.

tulexan
04-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Didn't Len Pasquerelli say that the Texans have not engaged in any contract discussions with Mario's team yet and that they will start negotiations with Bush this week?

I don't see the Texans taking anyone but Reggie at #1. They will take Mario if they trade down.

Djjoeyv
04-17-2006, 11:22 PM
If we pass up Bush, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL :yahoo: :yahoo: Its time to give away my season tickets

vtech9
04-17-2006, 11:27 PM
If we pass up Bush, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL :yahoo: :yahoo: Its time to give away my season tickets
I'll take them...I haven't wanted Bush from the start, so I would be happy. Still don't think anything has been decided yet though.

Frank_The_Tank
04-17-2006, 11:27 PM
All this post says is what I have been saying for weeks. WHY do we need BUSH? We have a great running back, and in this system Domanick is only going to get better. We have a good backup with Morency, and a pro-bowl return man in Mathis who is with out a doubt the fast guy in the NFL. Heck he qualified for the olympics in the 100 meters. I think Mario William, D'Brick, A.J. Hawk, Vince Young, Mike Huff, Winston Justice, they all bring more to improving our team than Bush would.

kastofsna
04-17-2006, 11:28 PM
apparently we've all forgotten already that san fran talked to braylon edwards first about contract negotiations last year.

Djjoeyv
04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
well then you trade down to get him. Name 1 DE that went #1 that made an impact on the team?

Johnny Utah
04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
....We have a great running back........

Good running back.

Johnny Utah
04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
well then you trade down to get him. Name 1 DE that went #1 that made an impact on the team?

Julius Peppers should have gone #1.

pskinny
04-17-2006, 11:30 PM
I doubt it, but if there is any truth to this report perhaps the Texans have agreed in principle to a trade with a certain team and are now targeting Mario Williams.

texan279
04-17-2006, 11:30 PM
from www.kffl.com

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports there is now legitimate reason, for the first time, to think that USC RB Reggie Bush is not going to be wind up with the Houston Texans, the team that currently holds the No. 1 overall NFL Draft pick. This does not come from one source or from one team. This comes from multiple sources, from across the league, without any agenda to push. As of Monday, April 17, the Texans had not had any contract discussions with Bush and his representatives. When Bush was in Houston, a certain segment of the organization never introduced itself to the running back. The Texans know they have a dependable running back and kick return man, the two spots Bush fills. A person in the Bush camp said Monday, "Do I have a feeling that Reggie is going to Houston? No, I have a feeling that he's not."

If this is the way our front office and coaches truly feel, then we won't de drafting Bush or Young. I am thinking Williams or D'Brick now.

Frank_The_Tank
04-17-2006, 11:31 PM
If we pass up Bush, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL :yahoo: :yahoo: Its time to give away my season tickets

:BananaWav Great, let us know when you are selling them.

MasterC25
04-17-2006, 11:35 PM
Good running back.

Not Great, Not good but

Dependable running back

Djjoeyv
04-17-2006, 11:37 PM
hummmmm one NFL team has already let us down! Luv U WHO????????

tulexan
04-17-2006, 11:43 PM
from www.kffl.com

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports there is now legitimate reason, for the first time, to think that USC RB Reggie Bush is not going to be wind up with the Houston Texans, the team that currently holds the No. 1 overall NFL Draft pick. This does not come from one source or from one team. This comes from multiple sources, from across the league, without any agenda to push. As of Monday, April 17, the Texans had not had any contract discussions with Bush and his representatives. When Bush was in Houston, a certain segment of the organization never introduced itself to the running back. The Texans know they have a dependable running back and kick return man, the two spots Bush fills. A person in the Bush camp said Monday, "Do I have a feeling that Reggie is going to Houston? No, I have a feeling that he's not."

If this is the way our front office and coaches truly feel, then we won't de drafting Bush or Young. I am thinking Williams or D'Brick now.


Who didn't he meet with? We know he met with the OC, the GM, the Owner, and the RB coach. Does it matter if he didn't meet with the DC? He isn't a defensive player.

Frank_The_Tank
04-17-2006, 11:47 PM
Kubiak sticking with Domanick Davis, I like the sound of that. You go with the Horse that you know can produce. Oh, and Domanick Davis is a great running back, heck he put up 1000 yards with one of the most idiotic coaching schemes in the history of the NFL. He is going to be huge next year, 1500 yrds 10 TD. By this time next year no one will remember the mistake we almost made in taking Reggie Bush. Not taking Bush will end up being the smartest move these coaches ever made.

YoungTexanFan
04-17-2006, 11:48 PM
Who didn't he meet with? We know he met with the OC, the GM, the Owner, and the RB coach. Does it matter if he didn't meet with the DC? He isn't a defensive player.

I'm guessing the people who handle the contracts and money, PR people, the FO people who make key decisions. :twocents:

Mike Kerns
04-17-2006, 11:50 PM
Who didn't he meet with? We know he met with the OC, the GM, the Owner, and the RB coach. Does it matter if he didn't meet with the DC? He isn't a defensive player.
The one spot in this story that is shady to me is, why would this only come out now that some "higher-ups" in the organization didn't meet him. Owner-check. Head Coach-check. Offensive Coordinator-check. Running Backs coach-check. Who the hell else do they want him to meet?

I say take this story with a giant grain of salt, but......I do believe we will trade down...I will be crushed, but I will live.

Djjoeyv
04-17-2006, 11:51 PM
All I'm saying it is hard to build a fan base when you are loosing and passing up 2 MAJOR marquee one being the best and the other being the 2nd best AND from Houston. Honestly if they don't want to loose anyone we need a marquee player to fill the seats. Notice I said FILL the seats, yeah the tickets are sold but they are being left at home because no one wants to keep going there to see them loose.

Mike Kerns
04-17-2006, 11:53 PM
Kubiak sticking with Domanick Davis, I like the sound of that. You go with the Horse that you know can produce. Oh, and Domanick Davis is a great running back, heck he put up 1000 yards with one of the most idiotic coaching schemes in the history of the NFL. He is going to be huge next year, 1500 yrds 10 TD. By this time next year no one will remember the mistake we almost made in taking Reggie Bush. Not taking Bush will end up being the smartest move these coaches ever made.

OK Frank. We get it. You are sold on Davis & not on Bush. Some of us are the opposite. 1000 yard rushers aren't all they used to be. It isn't measley by any stretch, but 1500+ is the new 1000. Plus, show me you can play more than 10 to 11 games a year before I pass on Reggie Bush for you.:twocents:

texan279
04-17-2006, 11:55 PM
I found this on KFFL, it was posted the day before the other article I posted...

Texans | R. Bush the pick Ė unless he prices himself out of the spot
Sun, 16 Apr 2006 06:59:56 -0700

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the only way the Houston Texans will not take USC RB Reggie Bush with the top pick in the NFL Draft is if his agent, Joel Segal, prices him out of the top pick. If that happens, the Texans will turn to defensive help, probably North Carolina State DE Mario Williams. "I've always felt that your first-round pick's going to start, and after that, you want to be in position to draft the best player available," general manager Charley Casserly said. "You don't want to have to force the pick. You want to give yourself some flexibility. Right now, we could line up and play with the players we've got."

Maybe Bush "priced himself" out of the #1 spot?

Kaiser Toro
04-17-2006, 11:56 PM
And many of you thought that it was not plausible.

Djjoeyv
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
DD is good, but not proving to be a breakout runner. He can bust a line but then what???????????? Yeah he is going to get 1000 yards Carr has no time to throw the ball, D'Brick before Williams. I could swallow that a lot better. Texans are dying on offense then all of a sudden a couple of changes and now we are going to pick a DE? Things don't add up. Well all loose as fans. You did not care of MJ won or lost, you really came to see him dunk from the foul line!

Mike Kerns
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
And many of you thought that it was not plausible.
A Houston sports team let us down? .....Never....:rolleyes:

Goatcheese
04-17-2006, 11:58 PM
I can't see with all this SmokeekomS. This does give me a little hope the Texans are going to fix whats wrong with this team. We have our O-line set, but need tackles(Upgrade at left, Wiegerts Replacement at right. We have our D-line set, but need linebackers(Cowart is old and a temporary solution, Greenwood failed to make a stop 50% of the time and Orr gets pushed around). Our secondary needs alot of work but isn't really a consideration for our 1st rounder.

I would be happy with D'brick, J.Joseph, KO Simpson and S.Havner on day one. Or in a trade down to the Jets: Hawk, J.Joseph, E.Winston, KO Simpson, Havner and J.Scott might be even better.

Texans34Life
04-18-2006, 12:00 AM
I know this won't happen, but wouldn't be awesome to have Bush and Super Mario? :yahoo:

Djjoeyv
04-18-2006, 12:01 AM
i want to know...why is it all of a sudden we need a DE?

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 12:02 AM
A Houston sports team let us down? .....Never....:rolleyes:

If you define us, as in those who need a rookie to define their team, then yes you unfortunately may be let down.

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 12:04 AM
If you define us, as in those who need a rookie to define their team, then yes you unfortunately may be let down.
That isn't what I meant. I simply meant us in the Draft Reggie camp that are excited at the thought of actually having the best player available on our team. Please don't try to make me out to be less of a fan if we don't draft Reggie. Leave that to the VY campers.

Djjoeyv
04-18-2006, 12:05 AM
Lets get smart guys, when was the last time you seen DD on a highlight reel when the can was not labeled "Property of DD". Hum don't remember seeing anything on espn or even Houston television. Again he is not breaking out, he is not going..all...the...way!!!!!!

Frank_The_Tank
04-18-2006, 12:06 AM
The one spot in this story that is shady to me is, why would this only come out now that some "higher-ups" in the organization didn't meet him. Owner-check. Head Coach-check. Offensive Coordinator-check. Running Backs coach-check. Who the hell else do they want him to meet?

I say take this story with a giant grain of salt, but......I do believe we will trade down...I will be crushed, but I will live.


I am guessing that you have never thought of the possibilities of the Texans bringing in Bush as a ploy to increase the value of the pick. I read all over this message board where every time the Texans talk about Vince or Mario the Bush-Bandwagon go psychotic about the thought of the Texans not choosing Reggie Bush. I am not trying to P.O. you guys but it could very well be that the Texans have not wanted Reggie from the beginning? Kubiak never said they were set on Bush, heck he never said Bush was in the lead, he has said over and over that at this point it is a draw between Bush/Young/Mario. The Media has been pushing Bush, not the Texans. Maybe Bushís agent came in and let it be known that the asking price is starting off at 30 million up front with 60 over 5 and the Texans said o.k. see you when we play your team on Sunday this year. I think the Texans have a ball-park figure financially and if Vince or Mario will meet that figure they will make the move to take them. That is what I have taken from this post.

Djjoeyv
04-18-2006, 12:09 AM
I could take any..Bush, Young, or D'Brick! Williams??????????? Since when a DE was our main concern? Fix the OL because if they do well then we hopefully wont need the DL! :drool:

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 12:09 AM
I am guessing that you have never thought of the possibilities of the Texans bringing in Bush as a ploy to increase the value of the pick. I read all over this message board where every time the Texans talk about Vince or Mario the Bush-Bandwagon go psychotic about the thought of the Texans not choosing Reggie Bush. I am not trying to P.O. you guys but it could very well be that the Texans have not wanted Reggie from the beginning? Kubiak never said they were set on Bush, heck he never said Bush was in the lead, he has said over and over that at this point it is a draw between Bush/Young/Mario. The Media has been pushing Bush, not the Texans. Maybe Bushís agent came in and let it be known that the asking price is starting off at 30 million up front with 60 over 5 and the Texans said o.k. see you when we play your team on Sunday this year. I think the Texans have a ball-park figure financially and if Vince or Mario will meet that figure they will make the move to take them. That is what I have taken from this post.
I actually agree. We aren't going to have Reggie or Vince. Guess we'd better get used to it.

Djjoeyv
04-18-2006, 12:10 AM
Before you all say it, I know Defense Wins Games!!!

TexansLucky13
04-18-2006, 12:22 AM
Before you all say it, I know Defense Wins Games!!!

No.... Defense wins championships. We have to GET to the playoffs before the defense has a chance to prove itself game by game.

I would be surprised if we pass on Bush AND Young... but not relatively unpleased. I would love to see a stud like Bush here.... but I love seeing DD on the field as our #1 guy as well. I think Mario would be the best choice should we pass along the two obvious picks.

Frank_The_Tank
04-18-2006, 12:25 AM
Another key factor people must remind themselves is from day one the Texans have made it very clear that they are interested in trading down. Look at G.B. Packers. I think they are plotting to trade up from the #5 to pick up Reggie Bush at number one. The have a Hall of Fame QB who is serious about not comming back if they dont call in some relief, and they have been very stingy this off season with there money. Bush fits in better with that Team. He will play wide out, he will carry the Ball while A.Green rebuilds that knee, he will be perfect for Kick-off return and punt return. Bush is considered a great talent but the Texans in all actuality do not need the guy, and there are plenty of teams that do who I think will make the moves necessary to bring in the kid.

TreWardTxn
04-18-2006, 12:25 AM
OK Frank. We get it. You are sold on Davis & not on Bush. Some of us are the opposite. 1000 yard rushers aren't all they used to be. It isn't measley by any stretch, but 1500+ is the new 1000. Plus, show me you can play more than 10 to 11 games a year before I pass on Reggie Bush for you.:twocents:

Whoa brah, only 5 backs had over 1500 yards last season. 1500 rushing, some receiving yards and double digit TDs is pro bowl material, year in, year out.

I don't see how the FO (McNair) will allow the Texans to come out of this draft without either Reggie or Vince unless we get a smorgasboard of draft picks (not happening). Remember this entire off-season/season is about reinvigorating the fans as much as anything. If the Texans go sans Bush or Young, then Kubiak better plan on ripping off 5 straight wins to start the season.

Personally, I think the Texans are falling into the "instant" success trap that is responsible for all the NFL coach turnover lately. McNair has proven he can be loyal, even to a fault. Kubiak should draft for the long term success of the team, and not have to worry about jersey sales or highlight reel appearances...

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 12:26 AM
ok...

Here's what we have. A writer/talking head with NFL.com is stating what we already knew... the Texans have had some sort of discussions with Mario Williams. So what.

After each player's visit, Houston media reported that all three met with members of the organization. We know that the whole team traveled to Austin to see Vince Young. We know that a large contingent went to LA to see Reggie Bush, and that he met with Bob McNair, Kubiak, et al. We also know (according to Bush) that he Reggie was told the coaches were excited for him to be a Texan. Young nor Williams said the same thing. BUT McNair said that Williams would have the same impact on defense that Reggie would have on the offense.

The only reports locally tonight (granted I tried to watch all Houston sports shows), but those who usually report first, Channels 13 and 26, NOTHING was reported about any ongoing negotiations or the Texans rethinking Bush. The only local story I am aware of is from 790 where Delotti mentioned that the Texans would like to begin negotiations with BUSH and have an agreement BEFORE the draft. He did mention that there were still some (probably the defensive coordinator and defensive line coach/LB coache) who are in Williams' corner. Delotti reported a possible 20-25 million guranteed and a 7 year 55 (I think) million contract for Bush.

I still think this is a nice little smokescreen floated by someone close to the Texans organization, an effort to make the #1 pick just as appealing as the #2 and also an attempt to get Bush's asking price down (you know that preliminary figures HAD to have been discussed during his visit here.) I think the next couple of days will be telling...

Sarg01
04-18-2006, 12:29 AM
Look at G.B. Packers. I think they are plotting to trade up from the #5 to pick up Reggie Bush at number one. The have a Hall of Fame QB who is serious about not comming back if they dont call in some relief, and they have been very stingy this off season with there money. Bush fits in better with that Team. He will play wide out, he will carry the Ball while A.Green rebuilds that knee, he will be perfect for Kick-off return and punt return.

That's a good point. I hadn't tied the whole Favre thing to Reggie Bush yet, but you could make a pretty nice argument there.

Best of all, my #2 guy for this draft is AJ Hawk, who's currently slotted ... for the Green Bay Packers :)

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 12:30 AM
It has seemed so long for me to get to this draft that it feels like that Texans/49ers game was over a year ago...

texanskan
04-18-2006, 12:30 AM
FYI-WE ARE TAKING BUSH!
Or Vince or trading down.

There is no way we take anyone not named Vince Young or Reggie Bush with the number one pick.

If the Texans want Williams you would be correct to say they must take him number one but let's say we trade down to four and Vince and Williams are on the board there is no way they can pass on Vince is there?

On the other hand Bush, either dbrick or matt l, then Vince would land us Williams too.

This is stupid they are taking Reggie Bush, I wish it were Vince but I'm cool taking bush.

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 12:31 AM
Look at G.B. Packers. Bush fits in better with that Team.
Bush fits better with ANY team.

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 12:35 AM
Bush fits better with ANY team.
Except us, apparently...:confused:

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 12:36 AM
Except us, apparently...:confused:
DON'T PANIC JUST YET!

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 12:40 AM
DON'T PANIC JUST YET!
LOL, not trying to be a big pessimist, but it is taking everything I got not to change my avatar or sig.:brickwall

Sarg01
04-18-2006, 12:42 AM
Except us, apparently...:confused:


Cheer up, Frak. My Texans first round record is:

David Carr in '02 - check
Andre Johnson in '03 - check
Sean Taylor (went #5), then DeAngelo Hall (went #8), then Dunta Robinson in '04 - check
Marcus Spears in trade down from #13 to #16, picking up 3rd rounder - semi-check, we did trade from #13 to #16, for a 3rd rounder this year, and I got the position right (3-4 DE)

... and I don't see anything to say we're not taking Bush.

Of course after the first round I only got Morency and Pitts right in 4 years :)

kiwitexansfan
04-18-2006, 12:43 AM
Here are some thoughts to throw out there about this:

Someone in RB's camp is saying he might not go number one... I don't see how this benefits RB at all especially when it has been said some very rich endorsement contracts hinge on this happening.

Our pressing needs are on the defensive side of the ball, after our FA signings... or on the OL perhaps.

We have significant money and talent tied up in the RB dept.

No one seems to be killing themselves to come up for RB.... even though he has been hyped someone in this very thread see fit to call him the best prospect ever.

This all leads me to conclude that I have no idea what will happen. :brickwall

But I would like to go get us some Mario Williams. :spy:

JAXwithanX
04-18-2006, 12:44 AM
lol...there is no way you predicted us moving down from 13 to 16 right on the dot.

El Amigo Invisible
04-18-2006, 12:47 AM
lol...there is no way you predicted us moving down from 13 to 16 right on the dot.

Poor TJ! Let's just hope he ate his Wheaties in the offseason(Or atleast a couple of Cheeseburgers).:brickwall

Frank_The_Tank
04-18-2006, 12:48 AM
Another look abroad, San Francisco, very much in need of a Running Back/Reciever (Frank Gore was their team leader at 608 yards last year), and dumb enough to give us this years #1 #2 and Next Years #1. Plus you know the California people are pulling for that to happen. We trade down to number 6, and still come out with a great prospect. Maybe Vince falls to #6, or D'Brick is sitting there at #6. Heck I know A.J. Hawk will be there and he would be the starting MLB the day he sign's his contract on our football team no questions asked. Next year we have 2 #1's. That sounds good to me. Plus another #2 this year means a starting OL pick in the second round plus a bonus pick on either CB or OL

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 12:49 AM
If Houston trades down, it won't be past 4th or 5th...

Sarg01
04-18-2006, 12:50 AM
lol...there is no way you predicted us moving down from 13 to 16 right on the dot.


Oh, yes sir. I had the Saints moving up for OT Barron instead of OT Brown, though.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4255
:redtowel:

kiwitexansfan
04-18-2006, 12:52 AM
Another look abroad, San Francisco, very much in need of a Running Back/Reciever (Frank Gore was their team leader at 608 yards last year), and dumb enough to give us this years #1 #2 and Next Years #1. Plus you know the California people are pulling for that to happen. We trade down to number 6, and still come out with a great prospect. Maybe Vince falls to #6, or D'Brick is sitting there at #6. Heck I know A.J. Hawk will be there and he would be the starting MLB the day he sign's his contract on our football team no questions asked. Next year we have 2 #1's. That sounds good to me. Plus another #2 this year means a starting OL pick in the second round plus a bonus pick on either CB or OL

I have been against going as low as 6, is AJ Hawk good enough to miss out on what I felt where our big four, Mario, DBrick, VY and RB??

I don't see college ball so can the wisdom of the board guide me.

I do like the defensice pick though

JAXwithanX
04-18-2006, 12:52 AM
Oh, yes sir. I had the Saints moving up for OT Barron instead of OT Brown, though.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4255
:redtowel:

lol...i'm going to believe you....hesitantly....but i'm going to give you the benefit....thats pretty impressive though.

MikeMc
04-18-2006, 01:05 AM
The off-season moves line it up nicely for a Defensive selection in the 1st round.

1. Secured Carr & Davis with extensions/ new contracts
2. Re-Signed OL Weary & McKinney
3. Released dead-weight and salary with Coleman, Walker, Banks and Hollings
4. Signed key position FAs: FB-J Cook, QB #2 - Rosenfels, DEs - Weaver & Kalu, WRs - Moulds & Walter, TE - Putzier, OL - Flanagan & Loverne, LBs - Rainer, Cowart and Moreno, and DB - Michael Stone.

There is no need to draft VDavis (TE) because Putzier is Kubiak's guy. Kubiak is confident with the "newly" formed OL and OL Coach, Mike Sherman. Kubiak is comfortable with the Offense as a whole - seeing how he has re-constructed it through FA and trades (Moulds).

He has also built the Defense up with some solid vetern players. Now his next move is to draft for the future. Weaver will be a solid Base 4-3 DE, but Mario Williams will be that perfect combo pass rush/ run stopper at the other side. Kalu will probably only be a 3rd down rush specialist.....a one-down type DE (filling in for Weaver in passing situations). Mario will be the 3 down DE teams need. He is the only one in this draft, and the best since Julius Peppers!

I see Kubiak drafting a solid RB in the 4th or 5th round, and drafting more OL in the 3rd round as well as his type of OL that fall to day2. 2nd round pick might be a DB (especially CB) or a LB.....there are several solid MLBs that will still be there in the 3rd round......D'Qwell Jackson is the only one to definately be gone from rd 1 and 2.

I think this will be the Texans best off-season/ Free-Agency and Draft....leading me to believe they are on their way to the Playoffs in 2006!

Sarg01
04-18-2006, 01:08 AM
I have been against going as low as 6, is AJ Hawk good enough to miss out on what I felt where our big four, Mario, DBrick, VY and RB??

I don't see college ball so can the wisdom of the board guide me.

I do like the defensice pick though

Hawk is awesome. He's #2 on my board after Reggie (yes, ahead of D'brick and Mario), since all three of our linebacking positions have issues. Cowart's the only semi-certain thing and he won't be around for many years.

dirty steve
04-18-2006, 01:11 AM
Cheer up, Frak. My Texans first round record is:

David Carr in '02 - check
Andre Johnson in '03 - check
Sean Taylor (went #5), then DeAngelo Hall (went #8), then Dunta Robinson in '04 - check
Marcus Spears in trade down from #13 to #16, picking up 3rd rounder - semi-check, we did trade from #13 to #16, for a 3rd rounder this year, and I got the position right (3-4 DE)

... and I don't see anything to say we're not taking Bush.

Of course after the first round I only got Morency and Pitts right in 4 years :)

not really man. where is the justification in the "check" you gave yourself?

JAXwithanX
04-18-2006, 01:33 AM
not really man. where is the justification in the "check" you gave yourself?

Lol. Yeah i'm a little confused on how exactly that all went down.

Nighthawk
04-18-2006, 01:44 AM
Kubiak sticking with Domanick Davis, I like the sound of that. You go with the Horse that you know can produce. Oh, and Domanick Davis is a great running back, heck he put up 1000 yards with one of the most idiotic coaching schemes in the history of the NFL. He is going to be huge next year, 1500 yrds 10 TD. By this time next year no one will remember the mistake we almost made in taking Reggie Bush. Not taking Bush will end up being the smartest move these coaches ever made.

I think you may have hit it dead on here--Bush is going to be very good, but the difference between him and DD is less than you'd think. Bush much flashier, of course, but at the end of the day they're both gonna get you the yards.

We have other needs--Mario or D'Brick with or (traded down to) 1st, additional building with the extra picks. THis is the smart move.

Hottoddie
04-18-2006, 01:52 AM
well then you trade down to get him. Name 1 DE that went #1 that made an impact on the team?

Bruce Smith ('85)

It's true that only one that was taken with the first pick has made an impact, but you did ask for just one. Also, as someone else stated, Peppers should've gone #1 instead of Carr.

HoustonianStuckinCali
04-18-2006, 01:54 AM
There are two major reasons why the Texans will draft Vince Young in this upcoming draft. I will break them down to the board and prove my above ascertain. Number one, the first goal of any Franchise is to win. If winning is not an option, you then take a different approach. You make moves that will ready your franchise for the future. Upon looking at the Texans schedule, any astute fan of the game will know, the Texans will only win 5 to 6 games next season regardless of what player they draft Young, Bush, Williams or Ferguson. The AFC south, the division the Texans are in, has the hardest schedule in football next year. First of all they play the NFC East. With all the off-season moves Dallas and Washington has made, you can pretty much chalk those two games up as losses. I donít realistically see the Texans beating the Giants either another loss added to the board. Leaving only Philly, Philly has made no big off-season moves but they play the Texans in week one. Due to the fact that the organization has put in place a new system and a new coaching staff this will in the end mean another loss to the team. Now onto the rest of the Texans schedule. They play the AFC East. Out of this conference I see two of the five wins coming; I see them beating the Jets and the Bills. Miami and New England you can forget about those games, the Texans wonít win either this means two more looses. Now Iíll speak about the six in-conference games. The Colts and the Jags means four more losses to the Texans. Provided the Texans sweep the Tennessee series. You can add two more wins to the Texans. So that's four wins if youíre keeping tract. There are two more additional out of division games, Oakland and Cleveland. Letís say the Texans split the games and beat Oakland. There you have it my total of five wins. And that's the best case Scenario. Knowing this tough schedule the Texans have, you have to know it's not just me who figured this out. As much as a football aficionado I think I am the men in the brass of the organization I can guarantee you looked at the schedule and murmured more than a few obscenities.
So what do you do when you know you're not going to win? If you guess build for the future then you've got it right. Like I said earlier regardless of whom they draft the Texans will not be at five hundred and you can take that to the bank. So who do you take? Mario Williams, D'brickashaw Ferguson. That's not going to happen because of the huge backlash from the fans they would get for not drafting Young or Bush. Now we have left Young and Bush. Why not Bush you ask? I think the Adam Schefter report on NFL Total Access said it all. They have a good back in Davis and a good punt return in Mathis the two positions Bush would play for the team. Why Young you may ask? You need not go any further than to the front page of the Texan home page to understand. The fans have spoken and because of that the Texans will draft Young. And as confident as Kube seems in Carr I guarantee you he has more than a few questions about him. After studying all the evidence it points to Young being back in Houston next year. And you don't have to believe me now but you will later on.


April 29 the prodigal son returns home

Eyeguy
04-18-2006, 02:00 AM
This is a win-win move for the Texans.
They let teams think they have a shot at #1 pick to get several offers to see if anyone will make a "Godfather" deal. We also say to Bush that the intrest in trading with us is for Leinart and if he wants to go#1 and get #1 money he better make a reasonable deal or he will go#2 or lower.
This ONLY works if everyone thinks we really will draft Williams.

Hottoddie
04-18-2006, 02:10 AM
I'm telling you right now, the Texans are targeting D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

whiskeyrbl
04-18-2006, 02:53 AM
Player Analysis (Filtered / Best)
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Mocks We Munch

Currently munching 37 mock drafts and spewing them back into a semi-coherent whole. Last Munching Performed on: 4/10/2006
Top Five Picks
Mock Draft 1. Houston 2. New Orleans 3. Tennessee 4. NY Jets 5. Green Bay
About.com (James Alder) Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Mario Williams D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Bear Report Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Mario Williams
College Football News Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Consensus Draft Services Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
D&J NFL Mockdraft Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Don Banks (Sports Illustrated) Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Draft Ace Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Draft Board Insider Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Draft Daddy Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Mario Williams
Draft Gurus Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Draft King Reggie Bush A.J. Hawk Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Draft Studio Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
DraftAce.com Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
East Coast Sports news Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Fantasy Football Extreme Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Mario Williams
Fantasy Football Sharks Reggie Bush Vince Young Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Fantasy Football Toolbox Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Mario Williams
Fantasy Tailgate Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Football Minds Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Vince Young Matt Leinart A.J. Hawk
Footballs Future Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Fox Sports / College Football News Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Fox Sports / Rob Rang Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Fox Sports / Rotoworld Reggie Bush Jay Cutler Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Great Blue North Reggie Bush Mario Williams Jay Cutler D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart
Hail Redskins Akhhorus Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler Vernon Davis
Heards Football report Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Huddle Geeks Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler A.J. Hawk
Inside The Eagles Reggie Bush Jay Cutler Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
NFL Answers Reggie Bush Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Haloti Ngata A.J. Hawk
NFL Draft Connection Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
NFL Gurus Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
NFL Smackdown - - - - -
NFLMockDraft.us Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Vince Young A.J. Hawk
Ourlads Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Q I Sports Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson A.J. Hawk
Rob Huff (bengalszone) Reggie Bush Jay Cutler Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Seahawks.net Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart A.J. Hawk Mario Williams
Sobodawgs Uncanny Mock Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams
Sporting News Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart A.J. Hawk Haloti Ngata
Sports Outlaw Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart Jay Cutler A.J. Hawk
SportsNutz Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Jay Cutler A.J. Hawk
Stevenson's Scouting Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
TFY Draft Preview Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
The Football Experts Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
The OBR (Fred Greetham) Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Viking Update Reggie Bush Matt Leinart D'Brickashaw Ferguson Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
VIP Sports Edge Reggie Bush D'Brickashaw Ferguson Matt Leinart Mario Williams A.J. Hawk
Walters Football Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young Jay Cutler A.J. Hawk
Warpaint Illustrated Reggie Bush Matt Leinart Vince Young DeAngelo Williams Haloti Ngata
Yahoo - Charles Robinson Reggie Bush Mario Williams Matt Leinart Vince Young A.J. Hawk



Well if we don't take Bush then all these people are wrong www.foxsports.com

David's Busted Carr
04-18-2006, 12:15 PM
Come on. They are just trying to boost the value of their pick for a possible trade. If eveyone KNOWS they are sold on Bush and they have him signed before the draft their pick has no value.

They are smart to then show interest in Mario Williams b/c teams sitting in the #3-4-5 spots know Mario might be available in those spots which would tempt them to trade up to get our #1 pick.

At the end of the day, nobody will pay our price, which should be a HIGH #1 pick this year, #2 this year, #3 this year, and #1 next year. Thus we will take Bush whether he is signed before the draft of not.

Texian
04-18-2006, 12:15 PM
Texans | R. Bush not a lock to be No. 1 draft pick?
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:38:45 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports there is now legitimate reason, for the first time, to think that USC RB Reggie Bush is not going to be wind up with the Houston Texans, the team that currently holds the No. 1 overall NFL Draft pick. This does not come from one source or from one team. This comes from multiple sources, from across the league, without any agenda to push. As of Monday, April 17, the Texans had not had any contract discussions with Bush and his representatives. When Bush was in Houston, a certain segment of the organization never introduced itself to the running back. The Texans know they have a dependable running back and kick return man, the two spots Bush fills. A person in the Bush camp said Monday, "Do I have a feeling that Reggie is going to Houston? No, I have a feeling that he's not."

Buffi2
04-18-2006, 12:18 PM
Texans | R. Bush not a lock to be No. 1 draft pick?
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:38:45 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports there is now legitimate reason, for the first time, to think that USC RB Reggie Bush is not going to be wind up with the Houston Texans, the team that currently holds the No. 1 overall NFL Draft pick. This does not come from one source or from one team. This comes from multiple sources, from across the league, without any agenda to push. As of Monday, April 17, the Texans had not had any contract discussions with Bush and his representatives. When Bush was in Houston, a certain segment of the organization never introduced itself to the running back. The Texans know they have a dependable running back and kick return man, the two spots Bush fills. A person in the Bush camp said Monday, "Do I have a feeling that Reggie is going to Houston? No, I have a feeling that he's not."

And the plot thickens!!!!:spy:

Mailman04
04-18-2006, 12:18 PM
That would be a huge mistake. Maybe they will compound the mistake by taking Vince Young.

Nawzer
04-18-2006, 12:21 PM
Still think we cannot pass up on Reggie Bush or VY. Although it is highly unlikely that we will draft VY, I don't think the Texans will pass up on Bush. At this time of the year we will hear several rumors and stuff. At the end of the day I still think Bush will be a Texan. It doesn't make any sense to pass up the most dynamic player in college football in recent memory over M.Williams. Yeah Mario Williams is a special player who is a phyiscial specimen, but he was inconsistent while he was at N.C.State. The Texans absolutely cannot screw up this draft. If they do that we will be setback for years and years to come.

beerlover
04-18-2006, 12:29 PM
I'm telling you right now, the Texans are targeting D'Brickashaw Ferguson.

the D'Brickashaw is the clear #1 need that needs addressed, he fits perfectly in Kubiacs zone blocking scheme (relies on quickness and atheltic ability not strength or size). add to this another 2nd (strength of draft) and a #1 next year it is very attractive indeed :drool:

bdiddy
04-18-2006, 12:35 PM
Rumors flying around the Texans camp are as follows:

The both the Jets and the Titans want Vince Young.

The Jets have a deal with New Orleans on the table for the number 2 pick, presuming we pick Bush, Young would be available.

The Titans are now seeking to trade for the number 1 pick so as to get Vince Young (yes all this bashing really has been a smoke screen). In turn, New Orleans would move the number 2 pick to the highest suitor who wants Bush and we would be left with the number 3 pick, which we would use on Mario Williams.

No one is saying what picks and/or players are being exchange for the trades. This is all contingent on the Jets interest in VY, as well as other teams that might try to trade into the 2 spot ahead of the Titans.

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 12:37 PM
That's a good point. I hadn't tied the whole Favre thing to Reggie Bush yet, but you could make a pretty nice argument there.

Best of all, my #2 guy for this draft is AJ Hawk, who's currently slotted ... for the Green Bay Packers :)

In all honesty, I doubt Farve gives a fat rat's pattuti about Reggie Bush. If he wanted to see a running back in the backfield before making his decision, Edgerin James, would've been high on the Packer's list, or they would have tried to trade for a veteran RB....... Brett wants to win another ring....... not help develop a running back. He's been there, done that, knows what it's all about.

FYI-WE ARE TAKING BUSH!
Or Vince or trading down.

There is no way we take anyone not named Vince Young or Reggie Bush with the number one pick.

If the Texans want Williams you would be correct to say they must take him number one but let's say we trade down to four and Vince and Williams are on the board there is no way they can pass on Vince is there?

On the other hand Bush, either dbrick or matt l, then Vince would land us Williams too.

This is stupid they are taking Reggie Bush, I wish it were Vince but I'm cool taking bush.

Out of the three players mentioned, only one can be considered a need. If you want him, taking him at #1 is the only way to garuntee you can get him. Trading with N.O. for the #2 spot, is like shooting yourself in the foot.

beerlover
04-18-2006, 12:45 PM
Out of the three players mentioned, only one can be considered a need. If you want him, taking him at #1 is the only way to garuntee you can get him. Trading with N.O. for the #2 spot, is like shooting yourself in the foot.

the Texans could always take D'Brickashaw Ferguson @ #4 with a butt load of extra picks :cool:

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 01:00 PM
That isn't what I meant. I simply meant us in the Draft Reggie camp that are excited at the thought of actually having the best player available on our team. Please don't try to make me out to be less of a fan if we don't draft Reggie. Leave that to the VY campers.

Duly noted. My dig was that many Bush advocates never thought it was plausible that we could take Williams. I will not be unhappy with the selection of Bush. I just see Williams as filling the fiscal vacuum on the defensive side of the ball.

Mr. White
04-18-2006, 01:08 PM
If we pass up Bush, we will be the laughing stock of the NFL :yahoo: :yahoo: Its time to give away my season tickets

Haven't heard this one before....

PokerStar
04-18-2006, 01:15 PM
I understand people really liking Bush, Young, or Williams, but it seems alot like blind devotion. Now some posters look at each player objectively and say this is the best guy for us because. I would like to see an objective post for Young, because maybe my view of him skewed and I just dont see him as any better than a mid first rounder. I admit though that I have read posts about him and looked at his stats, but he still does not impress me and I would like an objective look at him. I looked at the prospect profiles on NFL.com and Young is not rated very well. Looking at Mario and Bush though the two best prospects in the draft might I add, I think we are in a good position to add to our team. Bush is not the end all to be all and neither is Mario, but I would not mind getting a jersey for either of them.

texan279
04-18-2006, 01:18 PM
I would not be upset at all with us drafting Bush, Ferguson, or Williams, whether it be with the #1 spot or by trading down to 3-5. The only thing that would upset me in this draft is to take Young with the #1 pick.

eltoro
04-18-2006, 01:19 PM
I don't mind getting Mario's jersey - at the number 3 or 4 pick. Picking him at 1 would be a foolish mistake (as would be moving to 4 without serious compensation)...

jerek
04-18-2006, 01:27 PM
And many of you thought that it was not plausible.

Funny stuff, isn't it?

It was funny to watch Vince-mania kick up such a storm for months on end before finally, slowly, and ever so gradually subsiding with the realization that we weren't going to draft hometown, "never loses at anything" UT demigod VY. Now this story, and the Bush-or-bust crowd is ****ting kittens. Funny stuff.

I still think we will end up going Bush, but have been saying this for weeks now and I will still not be "shocked" if we don't. Either way, it looks like our FO is doing a good job.

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 01:30 PM
Either way, it looks like our FO is doing a good job.

Agreed.

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm not trying to be a dick here....but its posts like these and sentences like that last one that make all the people who wish we could find a way to get VY on this team (me included) seem completely oblivious. A lot of VY supporters are getting pigeon-holed because of this type of reasoning and posts.


I don't mean to be a dick neither, read the entire post before you make an asinine comment like that. My reasoning is very astute the Texans can not playing with the schedule they play be above 500. Therefore teams when that are in a rebuilding phrase ex. Packers 2005 draft, draft a franchise Quarterback instead of the most pressing need. The Texans have too many holes to fill. A solid left tackle, a solid Defensive End (pass Rusher) Weakness in the Line backing core. A team with that many holes can not possibly in one draft fix them selves. So what do they do. Do you think the 49rs last year most pressing need was QB the answer is no before you think any further into it. Vince will be drafted by the Texans because it makes Financial since for the team to do that. You draft a Marquee Quarterback not just because he will turn the franchise around but simple and plain Vince will sell tickets and if you can't have a winning season at least pack house. And the Texans know that Vince given a complete team around him will bring that eventual victory back to Houston.

I'm sorry, but if Kubiak is going into the season thinking we are only going to win 5 games, and have no chance of being .500, then we got the wrong guy. We always play the Colts tough, for the first half anyway, then they get away from us. In 2004, we scored over 24 quite often, and I think we had a team capable of averaging near 30 points a game(28). Minus the OLine. If we get that thing fixed, then we can hang with the Colts, especially, if we can improve our pass rush, or allow Dunta and Buchanon focus on their main responsibility.

If we improve the OL, and improve our D, say get us into the top 15, we can definitely beat the Colts.
I'd never count the Jags as losses before the season starts either. They don't have a running game, and we don't know how their QB controversy is going to go. Tennessee has a few things they need to iron out, if they don't play much better than last year, I can see a sweep. I'd say we come out the division 4-2.

We're going to beat Dallas........ 5-2.
We're going to beat Philly......... 6-2.
NYG ain't all that. we'll stop Tiki Barber, 50 yards total....... 7-2
Washington....... depends on who their QB is by the time we meet them. But I think we can win that game............. 8-2.

We are going to beat the Jets....... 9-2
Miami........... iffy, I'll give it to Miami...... 9-3
Oakland..... Aaron Brooks, Randy Moss.... no defense.... 10-3
Cleveland........ who's on that team again?? 11-3
Buffalo............. umm........... 12-3
New England.............. 12-4


In all Honest, we might loose a game to the Titans........ 11-5
We might loose that game to the Cowboys(away game after the Bye)....10-6
Philly.......... 9-7, and the 'Skins....(Joe Gibbs)...... 8-8

But we may also sweep the Colts........ they may be caught up in trying to figure out what they did wrong in 2005???

& we might beat New England, they've lost a big part of their Nucleus.... Brady may start to look human.

And this is with our team as of today.

TexanSam
04-18-2006, 01:48 PM
If Reggie Bush and his agent want QB money if he's drafted #1, and that's part of the reason the Texans are considering not drafting him, then he should get in his head that if he's drafted later on in the draft,he'll be getting even less money. If they want a ridiculous amount of money, then I can see why the Texans don't want to draft him. But from what I've heard on the radio, the Texans are just about to start negotiations with Reggie Bush.

Should we draft Mario Williams, I think we should try to move down. Heck, just move down to the 2nd draft pick and see if the Saints will part with their 2nd rounder. I don't see it happening, but anything's plausible.

One last thing. If any of you read Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback on SI.com, he says you can't trust anything that a GM or someone inside the organization says at this point in time. He said media members are used a lot this close to the draft. I do believe this is a smokescreen. No one knows what's going on behind the scenes. We may get little hints and such, but all we can do is wait and see. If we draft Mario Williams and aren't able to or decide not to trade down, I'll be slightly dissappointed, but we're still getting a beast of a player.

Dr. Toro
04-18-2006, 01:56 PM
If Reggie Bush and his agent want QB money if he's drafted #1, and that's part of the reason the Texans are considering not drafting him, then he should get in his head that if he's drafted later on in the draft,he'll be getting even less money. If they want a ridiculous amount of money, then I can see why the Texans don't want to draft him. But from what I've heard on the radio, the Texans are just about to start negotiations with Reggie Bush.

Should we draft Mario Williams, I think we should try to move down. Heck, just move down to the 2nd draft pick and see if the Saints will part with their 2nd rounder. I don't see it happening, but anything's plausible.

One last thing. If any of you read Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback on SI.com, he says you can't trust anything that a GM or someone inside the organization says at this point in time. He said media members are used a lot this close to the draft. I do believe this is a smokescreen. No one knows what's going on behind the scenes. We may get little hints and such, but all we can do is wait and see. If we draft Mario Williams and aren't able to or decide not to trade down, I'll be slightly dissappointed, but we're still getting a beast of a player.

I think the Bush camp has a number in mind, and they'll hold out til they get it.

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 02:06 PM
Just in case no one gets the big picture, the Texans have just gone into the 2minute drill for the draft and have the leverage. Right now, in my opinion, the Bush team better help orchestrate a trade with the Jets and Texans to help subsidize the type of jack they are hoping for. Bush's value is through the roof from an endorsement standpoint if he can play in NY and own the west coast. His agents know that and it could concievably happen that we pick him and then trade him to the Jets on draft day. This has always been my best case scenario and do feel that we are heading in that direction.

OzzO
04-18-2006, 02:15 PM
Possible smokescreen concerning trade with Jets... (from KFFL)

Jets | Team staying at No. 4?
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 06:04:07 -0700

Randy Lange, of the Bergen Record, reports talk early in the offseason was that the New York Jets might be interested in trading up with either the Houston Texans at No. 1 or the New Orleans Saints at No. 2, but with two weeks until the NFL Draft, the word is that they are not looking to trade up.

TexanSam
04-18-2006, 02:16 PM
I think the Bush camp has a number in mind, and they'll hold out til they get it.

Let's say the Texans pass on him. They draft Mario Williams with the #1 pick and give him $41 million over 5 years. Now let's pretend Bush is asking for $44 million over 5 years. There's no way Bush would get that by the 2nd team drafted. He better enjoy his Subway ads if he's planning on holding out. I don't think he will, but it's possible. I wonder what his agent's track record is with players and holdouts.

MikeMc
04-18-2006, 02:22 PM
If Kubiak wants either of the 3......VY not included, he will draft him at #1. Bush, Williams & Fergie will be the top 3 picks......any of the three teams would love to have either of the three players.

The Saints need OL & DL help but really need a RB.....they signed Brees, so I doubt the draft a QB with pick #2. The Jets need OL, RB, QB, DL help, so they will stay put and get whichever (Leinart included) falls to them at #4.

The Titans have the #3 pick and need a QB...Leinart is the odds-on fav to come in an be ready (with Volek as the starter for a few more years until the QB controversey begins).

So here is my top 4 (assuming no one moves out of position):

1. Texans - Mario Williams
2. Saints - Reggie Bush
3. Titans - Matt Leinart
4. Jets - Fergie

Dr. Toro
04-18-2006, 02:29 PM
Let's say the Texans pass on him. They draft Mario Williams with the #1 pick and give him $41 million over 5 years. Now let's pretend Bush is asking for $44 million over 5 years. There's no way Bush would get that by the 2nd team drafted. He better enjoy his Subway ads if he's planning on holding out. I don't think he will, but it's possible. I wonder what his agent's track record is with players and holdouts.

Stuff like that happens in baseball all the time. Backs generally don't get QB money, but the hype surrounding Bush makes this a different deal. I imagine Vick still woulda got his money if the Chargers passed on him due to signability. Negotiating with Bush is kinda like negotiating with Clemens, his demands are justifiable given the impact at the gate/franchise value. From the Texans side, tying up 50 mil. in an unproven running back might be unwise. Reasonably, the parties could find themselves at an impasse. My hunch is that the Jets pick #1.

tulexan
04-18-2006, 02:32 PM
How do the Saints need a RB? They have one of the best RBs in the league with Deuce McAlister and just gave him a $60 million contract. They are going to tie up $100+ million dollars at one position?

MikeMc
04-18-2006, 02:36 PM
Well, Deuce has proven to have the injury bug......besides, you can never have too many good RBs! They did draft Deuce in the first round when they had Ricky Williams.

So then flip the Saints and the Jets!

El Tejano
04-18-2006, 02:47 PM
I think all we are doing is taking advantage of the time we have to do contract negotiations that other teams do not have. This allows us to set all kinds of smoke screens to increase the value of our pick while finding out who is going to be easier to negotiate with. It also helps in the event we trade down and one of those players falls to us.

cuppacoffee
04-18-2006, 02:51 PM
Well, Deuce has proven to have the injury bug......besides, you can never have too many good RBs! They did draft Deuce in the first round when they had Ricky Williams.

So then flip the Saints and the Jets!

Right...Bush, Davis and Morency sounds good to me.

jerek
04-18-2006, 03:35 PM
Let's say the Texans pass on him. They draft Mario Williams with the #1 pick and give him $41 million over 5 years. Now let's pretend Bush is asking for $44 million over 5 years. There's no way Bush would get that by the 2nd team drafted. He better enjoy his Subway ads if he's planning on holding out. I don't think he will, but it's possible. I wonder what his agent's track record is with players and holdouts.

Just FYI, you are a good 10M south of what either Bush or Williams would receive at the #1.

Mr. White
04-18-2006, 04:16 PM
610 just talked about the article and they didn't seem to think to much of it. Even Rich.

The main think I took from it was Rich saying that Schefter's story consists of an anonymous quote from Bush's camp that Schefter ran with. They seem to think this is opinion.

Nawzer
04-18-2006, 04:30 PM
610 just talked about the article and they didn't seem to think to much of it. Even Rich.

The main think I took from it was Rich saying that Schefter's story consists of an anonymous quote from Bush's camp that Schefter ran with. They seem to think this is opinion.

Technically I'm in the Bush camp as well:ok:

Mr. White
04-18-2006, 04:38 PM
Technically I'm in the Bush camp as well:ok:
Exactly. The quote that I saw does use the word camp.

kcwilson
04-18-2006, 04:56 PM
This is all just part of the smokescreen that Cass and Kubiak have been trying to create since they hired Kubiak. The minute they show favortism to any player, the less flexible the Texans can be in fielding trade down scenarios.

We all agreed that the options seemed limited when we exercised our option on Carr. We basically are just using the flavor of the day (i.e. Mario) to create intrigue and offers for the #1. N.O. has all the power because they are such an unknown.

I personally like the intrigue created and hope that someone gets froggy and jumps up the ladder to #1 to make sure they get the player they want.

tulexan
04-18-2006, 08:19 PM
]']I would like Mario to anchor our D? Why we need another RB when DD and morency are here? :stirpot:

DD has injury problems
Morency has virtually no experience
We just gave Weaver a big contract
We have about 4DEs right now
We have 2 RBs

edo783
04-18-2006, 08:40 PM
I think some may be looking at RB the wrong way. It's not that we need a running back, but rather that we NEED a playmaker on offense and that is what he would bring to the table. His being on the field I think will also impact in a very positive way what AJ and others will be able to do. I have been in the trade down camp for most of the off season, but even I can see that Reggie would open up the options on the offense and help in more ways than just him being a running back. I suspect that the first sesion with Segal didn't go well as they probably threw some sort of rediculouse price and the FO is now working to drive it down. I still doubt that we don't take Bush IF we stay at #1.

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 09:10 PM
I would like to see an objective post for Young, because maybe my view of him skewed and I just dont see him as any better than a mid first rounder. I admit though that I have read posts about him and looked at his stats, but he still does not impress me and I would like an objective look at him. I looked at the prospect profiles on NFL.com and Young is not rated very well.


Now I'll be the first to admit that I am the last guy to give you an objective post on Vince Young. I love the guy, and I ain't scurred to say so.

But if you look at the two QBs expected to go first in this draft, you'll see one guy has weeknesses that can be improved..... Pro Style offense, you can teach a guy that. 3 step drop, 4 step drop, WCO, read defense, throwing motion, foot work........ you can teach all of those. This guy, has shown not only a desire to win, but to work hard to improve his game. Not saying that Matt hasn't. But if you were to ask who was the most improved QB from 2004, to 2005, you'd have to say it was Vince Young. 2004 Rosebowl..... he dominated that game, he wowed us, and entertained us with his legs... 2005, his arm was just as dangerous.

You look at the other guy........ Arm strength....... you'd think a little training can fix this, but for some reason, once a guy get's tagged as weak armed, it sticks(Pennington was on his way to overcoming this, not that his arm was getting stronger, but a quick release, and excellent distribution made NYJ's passing game very effective. Then he got hurt...... which brings up.....) Health concerns............

Matt doesn't have a history of being hurt, but there is something about him, that makes me question how long he will play....... I have no facts to back this up, but I know I'm not the only one.

Leadership, & Poise......... no one is saying Matt is lacking in either of these fields....... but Vince has demonstrated a level of Poise/leadership that many are saying is off the charts...

So, since the 2006 RoseBowl....... the National Championship. Through all the drama, and Vince Young mis-steps, his stock has actually risen. Partly fuelled by N.O.'s signing of Drew Brees, Matt's has dropped..... Who wants Matt?? I don't know. But the word now, is Vince. Tenessee, NYJ, GreenBay(even though they just drafted a 1st round QB) Oakland, Arizona......... all in the mix for Vince.

Now I'm not saying there is a conspiracy against Vince, nothing like that. It's a lot simpler, and more complicated at the same time.

Matt's the safe pick, the most NFL ready....... all the reporters, seem to zero in on this, and pushed every mock to show it that way.

But on one wants the safe pick....... the safe pick generally doesn't change the direction of your team.... and there are alot of teams looking for a new direction this year.

Reggie Bush isn't the safe pick, he's the most explosive pick. He isn't like any other Runningback before him, while many see that as a plus, it also means he isn't the prototypical 1st round runningback type. D'angelo, Addai, Moroney...... those are your safe picks.... not better, but safer. IMHO, the only person in the league who can get the most out of Reggie Bush, is Mike Martz..... no one else, is quirky enough to design, and teach an offense that will fully utilize a talent like Reggie Bush.

Like I said, not objective, but I'm going to say it is.

TEXANS84
04-18-2006, 09:16 PM
ESPN.com has learned that there was dialogue on Tuesday between the Texans and Bush's agent, Joel Segal, but still no substantive negotiations. There have been no hard contract talks yet, either, with the representatives for North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, the other prospect Houston is apparently considering with the first pick.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2413022

Mathis13
04-18-2006, 09:23 PM
i think they are just trying to drive down the price of Reggie Bush

TEXANS84
04-18-2006, 09:23 PM
i think they are just trying to drive down the price of Reggie Bush

Or give us all heart attacks.

tiger06
04-18-2006, 09:25 PM
Or give us all heart attacks.

I'm already having palpitations

Huge
04-18-2006, 09:28 PM
well then you trade down to get him. Name 1 DE that went #1 that made an impact on the team?
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?

kastofsna
04-18-2006, 09:41 PM
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?
yes.

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 09:50 PM
Stuff like that happens in baseball all the time. Backs generally don't get QB money, but the hype surrounding Bush makes this a different deal. I imagine Vick still woulda got his money if the Chargers passed on him due to signability. Negotiating with Bush is kinda like negotiating with Clemens, his demands are justifiable given the impact at the gate/franchise value. From the Texans side, tying up 50 mil. in an unproven running back might be unwise. Reasonably, the parties could find themselves at an impasse. My hunch is that the Jets pick #1.


If I said this............ stuff........... about Vince Young, all you guys would have a cow........ literally. ReggieBush, Like negotiating with Clements?? come on..........

not even.

Vick wouldn't have got his money, if he the team with the #1 pick would have used that pick on someone else.



How do the Saints need a RB? They have one of the best RBs in the league with Deuce McAlister and just gave him a $60 million contract. They are going to tie up $100+ million dollars at one position?

Duece has missed more games than DD, and DD get's more All Purpose yards.... Duece has played 2 more years than DD, and has 1334 rushing yards to show for it. That's 667 per year...... DD is going to kill that.

In all his 5 years, Duece has amassed 1379 recieving yards. DD, 1276..... 2 years differnce, 103 yards........

But we need a Running back, and N.O. don't?? N.O. can pass on Reggie, but we can't??

I'm not seeing the logic here.

]']I would like Mario to anchor our D? Why we need another RB when DD and morency are here? :stirpot:

Imagine getting Mario, D'Angelo, and a Winston Justice with the picks we'd get

I think some may be looking at RB the wrong way. It's not that we need a running back, but rather that we NEED a playmaker on offense and that is what he would bring to the table. His being on the field I think will also impact in a very positive way what AJ and others will be able to do. I have been in the trade down camp for most of the off season, but even I can see that Reggie would open up the options on the offense and help in more ways than just him being a running back. I suspect that the first sesion with Segal didn't go well as they probably threw some sort of rediculouse price and the FO is now working to drive it down. I still doubt that we don't take Bush IF we stay at #1.

We've signed FA DEs, MLBs, OLman, QB, and what not. So believe there is no need to reach for need in the Draft. We don't need a DE, We don't need a QB(never did really??), We don't need a TE, and we don't need a MLB...

Playmaker??

We've got Moulds, Cook, Putz, and Mathis..... we don't need a playmaker.... it would be nice to add another, but we don't need one. the O is already open, with two pass catching threats in the backfield, a TE you can split out wide, and 2 #1 recievers........ 2 probowlers mind you.

tulexan
04-18-2006, 10:03 PM
Stats don't tell the whole story. The difference between Deuce McAlister and Domanick Davis are night and day. Davis has never had a season like Deuce had in '03 and never will. I don't expect Davis to run for 100+ yards for 9 straight games like Deuce did or have 3 consecutive games where he rushed for at least 165 yards. And he did this while being the only weapon on the team. Deuce will return to form next season and continue to be a top 5 back in the league. Davis will return to mediocrity, rush for 1000 yards give or take 100 yards.

Deuce has had some injury problems the past few years but they are unrelated. I believe his last injury was a knee injury and the injury before that was a high ankle sprain.

MikeMc
04-18-2006, 10:09 PM
Well. with Carr, Davis, Moulds, AJ, Putzier and the revamped Offense.....I think the O will finally come together this year. The whole unit will be make plays.

The key is to have an improved D. The DEs the Texans have are Weaver (solid), Kalu & Peek (pass rush specialists) and Babin (adequate). Kalu will not be here long....so there is a need for a DE opposite Weaver.

DT seems to have the best depth/talent. Smith, TJ, Payne, DeLoach, Ioane, and any of the the three youngsters (J Davis, E Harris, or A Malone) form a solid three deep rotation.

LB is also a problem area on D. There are about 15 players to form a 3 position LB crew...and only 3 or 4 are even worthy of making the roster....the others are either inexperienced, lack talent, are injury-prone, or no longer fit the LB role a 4-3 defense commands. I will presume the Texans will draft 2 LBs to help fill the depth/talent/ need at OLB & ILB. Most of this year's crop of ILB start coming off the board in Round 3.....so the Texans will have their pick (or trade down) with back -to- back picks in the 3rd round.

The secondary has question marks, but it has some talent and depth to work. If the front 7 can pressure the QB, the DBs will have an easier job and their flaws will not be as noticeable in 2006.

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 10:17 PM
The key is to have an improved D.
Switching to the 4-3 should help some. Scheme will finally fit the talent... for the most part...

MikeMc
04-18-2006, 10:17 PM
Stats don't tell the whole story. The difference between Deuce McAlister and Domanick Davis are night and day. Davis has never had a season like Deuce had in '03 and never will. I don't expect Davis to run for 100+ yards for 9 straight games like Deuce did or have 3 consecutive games where he rushed for at least 165 yards. And he did this while being the only weapon on the team. Deuce will return to form next season and continue to be a top 5 back in the league. Davis will return to mediocrity, rush for 1000 yards give or take 100 yards.

Deuce has had some injury problems the past few years but they are unrelated. I believe his last injury was a knee injury and the injury before that was a high ankle sprain.

Well, the knee and ankle are part of his leg...so I would say they are related. You try running on that concrete floor they call turf in NO...you will have leg problems too! Hell, his college turf at Ole Miss was 100X better to run on than the Toilet Dome floor!

Joe Horn and Brooks will be mad that you did not give them props! They were part of his success.....do not forget one of the best OL in the league for the past 6 years.....prior to Turley's melt-down!

Davis has done everything he has with a sub=par OL, a QB that could not make reads (because of lack of time), and basically 8-9 men in the box to stop DD. Deuce had the luxury of having the opposing defense have to respect the passing game!

Maybe DD will have the year in 06 that Deuce had in 03.....then we will all say, Reggie who? Sort of like CHI is saying "Ced who???" after Thomas Jones had a solid year in 05.

"A Dom Davis in the Backfield is worth two in the Bush"!

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 10:23 PM
"A Dom Davis in the Backfield is worth two in the Bush"!
:thud:

Tale Gator
04-18-2006, 10:25 PM
Uh oh -- Reggie works out for the Jets...
____________

Amid speculation that the Houston Texans will not select Reggie Bush with the top pick in the 2006 NFL draft, the New York Jets on Tuesday morning undertook a bit of creative due diligence, perhaps preparing for the still-unlikely possibility that the Southern California tailback might be available to them.

ESPN.com has learned that Jets officials, following their previously scheduled meeting with Bush in Los Angeles, asked if he would participate in an impromptu workout for them. And Bush, on very short notice, acquiesced to the request and ran some pass routes for the Jets as part of the team's on-field session with USC quarterback Matt Leinart.

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2413022)

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 10:26 PM
Stats don't tell the whole story. The difference between Deuce McAlister and Domanick Davis are night and day. Davis has never had a season like Deuce had in '03 and never will. I don't expect Davis to run for 100+ yards for 9 straight games like Deuce did or have 3 consecutive games where he rushed for at least 165 yards. And he did this while being the only weapon on the team. Deuce will return to form next season and continue to be a top 5 back in the league. Davis will return to mediocrity, rush for 1000 yards give or take 100 yards.

Deuce has had some injury problems the past few years but they are unrelated. I believe his last injury was a knee injury and the injury before that was a high ankle sprain.

Duece had the same Offensive line that many here believe gave Aaron Brooks a better Reason to Succeed than David Carr........ By right, that gives Duece a better line, period........ run blocking, pass blocking..... through his Carreer, Duece has run behind LeCharles Bently, Charles Grant, and Wayne Gandy, and still DD is close on his heals, playing 2 less seasons....

Stats don't mean anything I guess, unless they're Reggie Bush's stats......... our poor team means nothing, unless we are defending the QB.....

tulexan
04-18-2006, 10:26 PM
The Super Dome has a field turf surface just like every other dome in the league. I don't see how it is substantially worse than any other indoor field. And Deuce hurt his knee this year when he wasn't playing in New Orleans.

I don't think that a knee injury is related to an ankle sprain. If you can tell me how the ACL is related to spraining your ankle please do.

The reason why I didn't mention Brooks is because he didn't justify being mentioned. He is the prime example of stats not telling the whole story because he usually puts up good stats but never produces in the clutch.

And again, our run blocking was not that bad. There is a big difference between pass blocking and run blocking and we had bad pass blocking and good run blocking. You don't have to be good at one to be good at the other. Arizona had a pretty good pass blocking line but a bad run blocking line.

tulexan
04-18-2006, 10:28 PM
Uh oh -- Reggie works out for the Jets...
____________

Amid speculation that the Houston Texans will not select Reggie Bush with the top pick in the 2006 NFL draft, the New York Jets on Tuesday morning undertook a bit of creative due diligence, perhaps preparing for the still-unlikely possibility that the Southern California tailback might be available to them.

ESPN.com has learned that Jets officials, following their previously scheduled meeting with Bush in Los Angeles, asked if he would participate in an impromptu workout for them. And Bush, on very short notice, acquiesced to the request and ran some pass routes for the Jets as part of the team's on-field session with USC quarterback Matt Leinart.

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2413022)

Did you read the rest of the article? Especially the part that said that Segal and the Texans have spoken today and that they will start negotiations later this week?

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 10:29 PM
Duece had the same Offensive line that many here believe gave Aaron Brooks a better Reason to Succeed than David Carr........ By right, that gives Duece a better line, period........ run blocking, pass blocking..... through his Carreer, Duece has run behind LeCharles Bently, Charles Grant, and Wayne Gandy, and still DD is close on his heals, playing 2 less seasons....

Stats don't mean anything I guess, unless they're Reggie Bush's stats......... our poor team means nothing, unless we are defending the QB.....

And when did Duece put up any meaningful yards when Joe Horn, Aaron Brooks, Boo Williams, or Dante Stallworth weren't in the Game??

DD is getting it done, with David Carr, CoreyBradford, no TE, AJ in or out, Gaffney as our #1, and sub 200 yard passing games.

Tale Gator
04-18-2006, 10:30 PM
Did you read the rest of the article? Especially the part that said that Segal and the Texans have spoken today and that they will start negotiations later this week?

The Jets have eyes for Bush that much is clear.

Trap_Star
04-18-2006, 10:32 PM
The Jets have eyes for Bush that much is clear.

Bush will be a Texan, unless a team comes up with a "Mike Ditka" type deal.:rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 10:33 PM
Ditka

Tale Gator
04-18-2006, 10:34 PM
Da' Bush

tulexan
04-18-2006, 10:35 PM
And when did Duece put up any meaningful yards when Joe Horn, Aaron Brooks, Boo Williams, or Dante Stallworth weren't in the Game??

DD is getting it done, with David Carr, CoreyBradford, no TE, AJ in or out, Gaffney as our #1, and sub 200 yard passing games.

Deuce:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235228/gamelogs/2003


Aaron:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233/gamelogs/2003


Deuce consistently had great games while Aaron was his typical inconsistent self. I noticed a lot of sub 200 yard passing games during Deuce's 9 game 100+ yard rushing streak.

wags
04-18-2006, 10:35 PM
DD is getting it done, with David Carr, CoreyBradford, no TE, AJ in or out, Gaffney as our #1, and sub 200 yard passing games.

If you pimp DD too much you will summon the wrath of Fiddy.

:jk:

Kaiser Toro
04-18-2006, 10:37 PM
Da'Deuce

TexansLucky13
04-18-2006, 10:38 PM
The Jets have eyes for Bush that much is clear.

Every team in the league is interested in Reggie. The only question that remains now is whether or not some kind of monster trade can be arranged. The first pick of this draft will be for Reggie Bush. The real question is.... can anyone offer McNair and Kubes a huge enough deal that will result in a trade down. I would not be opposed to us taking a sizable offer, but it would have to be huge.

Trap_Star
04-18-2006, 10:40 PM
Every team in the league is interested in Reggie. The only question that remains now is whether or not some kind of monster trade can be arranged. The first pick of this draft will be for Reggie Bush. The real question is.... can anyone offer McNair and Kubes a huge enough deal that will result in a trade down. I would not be opposed to us taking a sizable offer, but it would have to be huge.

"Ditka" type you might say...:)

Tale Gator
04-18-2006, 10:45 PM
I'm not sure it would cost the Jets that much to trade up to the 2nd spot.

Huge
04-18-2006, 10:52 PM
yes.
Great! What is it (the point I'm missing)?

Tale Gator
04-18-2006, 10:55 PM
[rotoworld blurb]

link (http://http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.asp?sport=NFL)

"I would say if Reggie Bush wasn't in this draft, there wouldn't be any question who the first pick of the draft is. It would be Mario Williams... He deserves to be in that discussion," --Casserly

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 10:58 PM
[rotoworld blurb]

link (http://http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.asp?sport=NFL)

"I would say if Reggie Bush wasn't in this draft, there wouldn't be any question who the first pick of the draft is. It would be Mario Williams... He deserves to be in that discussion," --Casserly

Charlie, they ain't released you yet?

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 11:02 PM
Deuce:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235228/gamelogs/2003


Aaron:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233/gamelogs/2003


Deuce consistently had great games while Aaron was his typical inconsistent self. I noticed a lot of sub 200 yard passing games during Deuce's 9 game 100+ yard rushing streak.

Yep, you got me....... Poor inconsistant Aaron Brooks played better than David Carr in his best year........ a lot of those sub 200 yard games, he had ratings over 80......... completions rarely falling below 60%, only 7 times all year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Duece fan also, but I don't think he is better than DD. Different, he can break off a 70 yard TD run, while that isn't in DD's repetoire......

But Duece has had a better team throughout his carreer....... position by position.

kastofsna
04-18-2006, 11:09 PM
mcallister is better than davis.

thunderkyss
04-18-2006, 11:19 PM
mcallister is better than davis.

They're both young, We'll see.

Mike Kerns
04-18-2006, 11:37 PM
mcallister is better than davis.
Much. Only a :homer: would disagree.

LoneStarState
04-18-2006, 11:41 PM
Charlie, they ain't released you yet?
lol:

Mike Kerns
04-19-2006, 12:13 AM
lol:

Seriously, it seems to be common knowledge around the league that he is gone only hours after the draft, so why should I listen to anything he rambles on about?

Frank_The_Tank
04-19-2006, 12:17 AM
How would you guys feel if the Texans do trade down and take Vince Young. I don't see it happening, but if they did what would be your reaction.

TexanFanInCC
04-19-2006, 12:24 AM
Adam Schefler was on & he said we haven't even talked to Reggie Bush's people about negotiations & that we didn't even let him meet with some important people when he visited here. Pretty much stated that we don't seem very interested, while we have been in relentless pursuit of contract negotiations with Mario Williams. Wow, the backlash from passing on Young AND Bush...........

can anyone smell AJ HAWK!?

:ok:

LoneStarState
04-19-2006, 12:26 AM
can anyone smell AJ HAWK!?
ESPN is reporting that the Texans and Bush's agent had some discussion today and will begin negotitations later this week. (this is in an article posted earlier under this topic - but I'm too lazy to repost the link...)

Frank_The_Tank
04-19-2006, 12:27 AM
I smell my basset hound Jumbo. I love that dog.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 12:39 AM
ESPN is reporting that the Texans and Bush's agent had some discussion today and will begin negotitations later this week. (this is in an article posted earlier under this topic - but I'm too lazy to repost the link...)


http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=21277

Hervoyel
04-19-2006, 01:21 AM
How would you guys feel if the Texans do trade down and take Vince Young. I don't see it happening, but if they did what would be your reaction.


Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.

swtbound07
04-19-2006, 01:35 AM
Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.


I agree with you and disagree with you. I'd be annoyed to, because whoever is their guy they should just take and be done with. I dont think its reggie bush, and we have discussed that ad nauseum. I do have to refute your travis johnson point. I have actually talked to a texans scout for several hours about the derrick johnson passing. Believe me when i say this, even though i was a fan too. If derrick johnson fell to 16, they were still passing on him. PERIOD. Casserly was (and is) dead set against him. It WAS spin, because travis johnson was not who they were targeting at 16...they got thomas davis sniped right out from under them....Casserly had a "gut feeling" in the war room that he could get his guy and they would come out smelling rosy. This is pretty much direct from a guy who was there.

As for bringing stuff up after the draft....why? What good can we do herv? I think vince young is the best quarterback to come out in years. If they pass on him i will regret it for his entire career. However, let draft day bygones be bygones.....being right isnt enough anymore. You have to know whats going to happen, tell people, fight off the disbelievers, and still be right about every single thing you say. Just let it go if they dont get reggie...and i'll let it go if they dont get vince, and we can get back to just being fans of our team. What do you say?

Huge
04-19-2006, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?

yes.
No really, I'd like to know what point I'm missing.

Mike Kerns
04-19-2006, 08:29 AM
From ESPN Insider (Todd McShay):

The 2006 NFL draft is rapidly approaching. With less than two weeks remaining before draft weekend kicks off on April 29, it's time to take a look at how the seven-round process could shake out:

1. Houston Texans (2-14)
Top-five needs: OT, OG, DC, WR, RB
The pick: +Reggie Bush, RB, USC
The Texans are surprisingly fielding far more trade offers for their pick than the Saints are at No. 2. If the deal is sweet enough, there's still a chance that the Texans could trade down a few spots (Jets?) and still get an elite player at a position of greater need, such as NC State DE Mario Williams or Virginia OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson. When all the dust settles, however, the Texans are still expected to take Bush with the first overall selection. Running back is not one of the Texans' top positional needs, but Bush is far more than just a running back. He's the most explosive runner, receiver and return man that this year's class has to offer. No other rookie will make a bigger impact than Bush will for the Texans next season.

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 09:20 AM
Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.

I will chalk it up to being late in the evening. I wouldn't expect you to be so wrapped up in the potential of a college player when this off season is more about the coaching change and the free agent acquisitions filling needs.

I expect Bush to be a very good player, but I expect Williams, Hawk and Huff to be good as well.

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 09:21 AM
From ESPN Insider (Todd McShay):


McShay is a tool. Anyone that thinks that our needs are mostly on offense is selling something.

bad
04-19-2006, 09:52 AM
I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess. Not to mention the fact that Bush would take special delight in tearing up the team that passed on him. I'd much rather see him in Steel Blue, making Titans fans cry two Sundays a year.

wags
04-19-2006, 10:55 AM
It WAS spin, because travis johnson was not who they were targeting at 16...they got thomas davis sniped right out from under them....Casserly had a "gut feeling" in the war room that he could get his guy and they would come out smelling rosy. This is pretty much direct from a guy who was there.

If they thought Davis would be there at 16 then they need to start reading more. There were multiple reports that New Orleans, KC, and Carolina all had Davis rated higher than DJ.

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 11:02 AM
If they thought Davis would be there at 16 then they need to start reading more. There were multiple reports that New Orleans, KC, and Carolina all had Davis rated higher than DJ.

It has to sting Wags. How was Davis this past year?

Texansfan30
04-19-2006, 11:05 AM
The question shouldn't be which RBs went #1 and were worth it, the question should be which RBs DESERVED to be #1. There were RBs who went below there who, in hindsight, could easily be justified in being #1 picks. LT, anyone? Barry Sanders? Looking back, it would be easy for a team to say, "We should have taken him that year #1."

Just imagine playing Reggie Bush twice a year, every year. Imagine every Sunday watching ESPN SportsCenter, and seeing the tagline on Reggie, and hearing Stuart Scott saying 'BOO-YAH! What WERE the Texans thinking?'

It's much better to suffer playing against a great player when you had no chance at all of getting him, then playing against him every year knowing you made the mind numbingly stupid decision to not draft him.

And as for the Derrick Johnson non-pick, those theories above are wrong. They didn't draft him because he is a MLB. You don't invest first round picks and money in middle LBs in a 3-4. Capers was a 3-4 coach. He would be a great fit now - but that wasn't their focus then. They didn't trade down to try and get him lower, they weren't going to draft him. Period

wags
04-19-2006, 11:05 AM
It has to sting Wags. How was Davis this past year?

He was OK. Played mostly a joker role in nickel sets. Sacked Tom Brady and shut down Vick every time he scrambled. Almost killed Terrence Murphy in the Packers game.

The Panthers like him and he will be used better this year. They are switching him to linebacker apparently.

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 11:24 AM
The question shouldn't be which RBs went #1 and were worth it, the question should be which RBs DESERVED to be #1.

This has been the problem to date for the Texans. Carr and AJ deserved 7 million a year, but did not earn it. I do not want anymore players on offense that deserve 7 mil per. I trust the new staff and the direction they have taken this recent off season. Moreover, we have a second year back in Morency that can help Davis.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 11:29 AM
We also have Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, Antwan Peek, and Jason Babin. I guess that means that we shouldn't take Mario Williams

Mike Kerns
04-19-2006, 11:32 AM
We also have Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, Antwan Peek, and Jason Babin. I guess that means that we shouldn't take Mario Williams
Bingo!

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 11:34 AM
We also have Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, Antwan Peek, and Jason Babin. I guess that means that we shouldn't take Mario Williams

Weaver can play DE/DT. Kalu does not cost anything. Peek can still be moved or cut for nothing. Babin is a little trickier, but I do expect him to work off last season's momentum. Once again it is offense vs. defense. When we extended Carr and signed Moulds, Flanagan, McKinney, Cook and Putzier we pretty much sewed up our needs and spend on offense for this coming year.

As I have stated before, if we did not extend Carr I would be in the Bush camp front and center.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 11:44 AM
I think that when we signed Weaver to a big contract, signed Kalu, and gave Peek a first round tender that we sewed up our needs on the DL. It's not just Peek, Babin, Weaver, and Kalu, but we also have an expensive Robaire Smith, and first round pick Travis Johnson.

We have a lot of money tied up in the DL and now you want to add another $45-50 million to it? Our needs on defense right now are at LB and DB positions.

light
04-19-2006, 12:15 PM
this is what i think, you cant get a reggie bush in free agency that guy is going to be locked up all the way through his prime. if babin doesnt work out you can easily find a replacement in free agency. if the texans pick up mario with the #1 pick i will lose all faith in them. now if they trade down thats a different story as long as they get an impact player

LoneStarState
04-19-2006, 01:07 PM
As I have stated before, if we did not extend Carr I would be in the Bush camp front and center.
Then you'd be kinda outta luck because the Texans would probably be going after Young or Leinart...

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 02:14 PM
I think that when we signed Weaver to a big contract, signed Kalu, and gave Peek a first round tender that we sewed up our needs on the DL. It's not just Peek, Babin, Weaver, and Kalu, but we also have an expensive Robaire Smith, and first round pick Travis Johnson.

We have a lot of money tied up in the DL and now you want to add another $45-50 million to it? Our needs on defense right now are at LB and DB positions.
What did Weaver get?? 13 million over 4 years?? that's chump change.

this is what i think, you cant get a reggie bush in free agency that guy is going to be locked up all the way through his prime. if babin doesnt work out you can easily find a replacement in free agency. if the texans pick up mario with the #1 pick i will lose all faith in them. now if they trade down thats a different story as long as they get an impact player

WE could have gotten Edgerin James in FA, and Shaun Alexander has been a threat to hit the FA market for what 3 years running??

Kaiser Toro
04-19-2006, 02:17 PM
Then you'd be kinda outta luck because the Texans would probably be going after Young or Leinart...

Nope, I do not believe in drafting a QB in the upper echelon of the draft. To much money for an unproven commodity that needs time to develop.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 02:22 PM
What did Weaver get?? 13 million over 4 years?? that's chump change.


Actually Weaver got a 5 year $26.5 million contract with $12 million guaranteed. That is far from chump change.

Mike Kerns
04-19-2006, 02:36 PM
Actually Weaver got a 5 year $26.5 million contract with $12 million guaranteed. That is far from chump change.
Especially to be situational or ride the bench.

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 03:04 PM
Actually Weaver got a 5 year $26.5 million contract with $12 million guaranteed. That is far from chump change.

that was the Rumor.

Houston Salary cap info (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5VXEiEZEPpAARrFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3Y3VpdnB wBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMTIEc2VjA3NyBHZ0aWQDaTAyM l80OA--/SIG=11uspgame/EXP=1145559620/**http%3a//www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html)

We all overreacted (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5U9FiUZEODABvtZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2Z3MwOXF 0BGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANpMDIyX zQ4/SIG=12d6p2rn6/EXP=1145559749/**http%3a//www.fanball.com/fb/teamNewsBreakers.cfm%3fteam=HOU)

We all thought $26.5 Was too much (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5U9FiUZEODABzNZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2M2trdGU xBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANpMDIyX zQ4/SIG=130s1p10a/EXP=1145559749/**http%3a//fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp%3fsport=NFL%26id=2223)

But when we found out he was only getting $13/$14 million over 4 years, it made more sense.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 03:09 PM
that was the Rumor.

Houston Salary cap info (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5VXEiEZEPpAARrFXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3Y3VpdnB wBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMTIEc2VjA3NyBHZ0aWQDaTAyM l80OA--/SIG=11uspgame/EXP=1145559620/**http%3a//www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html)

We all overreacted (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5U9FiUZEODABvtZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2Z3MwOXF 0BGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANpMDIyX zQ4/SIG=12d6p2rn6/EXP=1145559749/**http%3a//www.fanball.com/fb/teamNewsBreakers.cfm%3fteam=HOU)

We all thought $26.5 Was too much (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5U9FiUZEODABzNZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2M2trdGU xBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANpMDIyX zQ4/SIG=130s1p10a/EXP=1145559749/**http%3a//fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp%3fsport=NFL%26id=2223)

But when we found out he was only getting $13/$14 million over 4 years, it made more sense.

Did you even read your source?

It says in the last link that Anthony Weaver signed a 5 year contract for $26.5 million with $12 million guaranteed

PokerStar
04-19-2006, 03:14 PM
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it. I know you have to adjust, but Young seemed to make the coaches change or he was not going to be the QB. I do agree that Young and Matt both have impeccable intagibles, and yes Matt does have that Hollywood stigma that says he might opt out to the league early, but Young has an Aaron Brooks aloofness about him that scares me also.

I do admit though after researching and watching some games, I feel that Young is much better than I gave him credit for. He is not good enough to be the number 1 pick, but he deserves the top 12. His throwing style fits with Arizona well, he has receivers that will go get the ball which he will need to be successful in the NFL.

Also on the subject of Weaver he is seems like a talented DT that is undersized. I know that he played DE at ND, but he is not overly quick, and more of a run stuffer. I question his ability to get pressure, but at DT I think he could put up, consistently, Rocky Benard type 2005 seasons.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 03:16 PM
Weaver was the starting DE on the Super Bowl winning Baltimore Ravens in 2000.

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 03:24 PM
Did you even read your source?

It says in the last link that Anthony Weaver signed a 5 year contract for $26.5 million with $12 million guaranteed


which Link?? on two of them, I'm blocked from........ fantasy sports and all.

on the other, the Houston Pro Football, they have weaver counting $3.4mil against the cap this year. Signed through 2010, 4 years, that works out to $13.6 million, including the bonus.

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it. I know you have to adjust, but Young seemed to make the coaches change or he was not going to be the QB. I do agree that Young and Matt both have impeccable intagibles, and yes Matt does have that Hollywood stigma that says he might opt out to the league early, but Young has an Aaron Brooks aloofness about him that scares me also.

I do admit though after researching and watching some games, I feel that Young is much better than I gave him credit for. He is not good enough to be the number 1 pick, but he deserves the top 12. His throwing style fits with Arizona well, he has receivers that will go get the ball which he will need to be successful in the NFL.

Also on the subject of Weaver he is seems like a talented DT that is undersized. I know that he played DE at ND, but he is not overly quick, and more of a run stuffer. I question his ability to get pressure, but at DT I think he could put up, consistently, Rocky Benard type 2005 seasons.


Simms ran the UT offense, but he wasn't anything special. I believe TampaBay got him on the cheap. He was a much better QB than he had shown in Texas. I think that is because UT is built for running the football. Who was the last Great QB to come out of Texas?? How many impressive Running backs came out of Texas??

In fact, the word was that Phil was going to take Chris out of Texas, so he can play on a team the threw the ball more. In my Orange hued world, Vince sold the coaches on an offensive plan that made sense with the Offense he had.

Now Weaver, I think we brought him in to be a run stopper. You want to win championships, there are two things you have got to do, no if's ands or buts. You have to run the ball, and you have to stop the run.

tulexan
04-19-2006, 03:30 PM
which Link?? on two of them, I'm blocked from........ fantasy sports and all.

on the other, the Houston Pro Football, they have weaver counting $3.4mil against the cap this year. Signed through 2010, 4 years, that works out to $13.6 million, including the bonus.


The USA today link (3rd one) said that he was signed to a 5 year $26.5 million with $12 million guaranteed.

The HPF link said that his 2006 allocated bonus pay is $2.4 million. If that stays constant (which it won't because there will be other future bonuses kicking in) that alone will be around $10 million. His base salary this year is $1 million. That too will increase every year.

http://kffl.com/player/133/nfl

There is a breakdown of the contract.

Tulip
04-19-2006, 03:39 PM
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it.

In the Longhorns' previous offense, Simms unperformed to his talent level. And Vince was no less successful in it than Simms was. It wasn't until Mack Brown and Greg Davis changed their offensive philosophy that the Longhorns were able to break that ceiling and win a championship. It wasn't just about shotgun formations and designed running plays - it was also about playing to win instead of playing not to lose.

IMO, a good coach tweaks his system to bring out the best performances in his players.

kastofsna
04-19-2006, 03:42 PM
In the Longhorns' previous offense, Simms unperformed to his talent level. And Vince was no less successful in it than Simms was. It wasn't until Mack Brown and Greg Davis changed their offensive philosophy that the Longhorns were able to break that ceiling and win a championship. It wasn't just about shotgun formations and designed running plays - it was also about playing to win instead of playing not to lose.

IMO, a good coach tweaks his system to bring out the best performances in his players.
simms was not great at texas, but he was much better in that offense than young was.

basically young's mommy complained to mack that he was in the wrong offense and brown changed it. definitely the funniest story i've heard yet involving young.

Tulip
04-19-2006, 03:48 PM
Simms ran the UT offense, but he wasn't anything special. I believe TampaBay got him on the cheap.

He was the #1 recruit coming out of high school - the perfect physical specimen - and he was drafted at spot #97, the last pick of the third round.

That must have been some offense the Longhorns were running.

kastofsna
04-19-2006, 03:50 PM
young was the #1 recruit as well, and in the same offense, he was being considered a receiver at the next level. now a top 10 pick at QB. hmm, nothing to do with the offense i'm sure.

Huge
04-19-2006, 05:41 PM
simms was not great at texas, but he was much better in that offense than young was.

basically young's mommy complained to mack that he was in the wrong offense and brown changed it. definitely the funniest story i've heard yet involving young.
Simms' first two seasons at Texas:
86 of 153 (56.2%), 1287 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs

Young's stats playing in that same offense (before it was changed):
143 of 247 (57.9%), 1894 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs

Now looking at those numbers, you're going to attempt to convince others that Simms was "much better" in that offense than Young? Wait, sorry...forgot who I was asking for a second.

I thought your first comment was a dumb one until I read the one about Vince's mom.

Huge
04-19-2006, 05:44 PM
Almost forgot...



Originally Posted by Huge
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?

yes.
What point was/am I missing?

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 06:00 PM
He was the #1 recruit coming out of high school - the perfect physical specimen - and he was drafted at spot #97, the last pick of the third round.

That must have been some offense the Longhorns were running.


so you agree with me??

BeReal
04-19-2006, 06:04 PM
Simms' first two seasons at Texas:
86 of 153 (56.2%), 1287 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs

Young's stats playing in that same offense (before it was changed):
143 of 247 (57.9%), 1894 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs

Now looking at those numbers, you're going to attempt to convince others that Simms was "much better" in that offense than Young? Wait, sorry...forgot who I was asking for a second.

I thought your first comment was a dumb one until I read the one about Vince's mom.

Your forgetting the fact that Simms' eventually had success in the Texas offense, the same one that had to be changed for Vince. If you look at Vince's final season at Texas and Simms' final at Texas, they are pretty even if you ask me.

PASSING Cmp Att Pct Yds Yd/A TD Int Rating

Vince Young 212 325 65.2 3,036 9.3 26 10 163.9


Chris Simms 235 396 59.3 3,207 8.1 26 12 143.0

trutxn
04-19-2006, 06:08 PM
There is not anyone to ever play in the NFL that can be compared to Vince Young. That is why so many teams are affraid to draft him. Vince has dominated at every level. He was more dominant than any player, remember he only played 3 entire games all season due to blowouts and still finished with 3,000 passing and 1,000 rushing. He would have easily won the Heisman over Reggie last year if he played all four quarters of each game. Anyone who thinks he will flop does not know the game, there is always a learning curve. Vince has proved he can learn. Vince is the face of Houston, the is a real Texan!

Huge
04-19-2006, 06:12 PM
Your forgetting the fact that Simms' eventually had success in the Texas offense, the same one that had to be changed for Vince. If you look at Vince's final season at Texas and Simms' final at Texas, they are pretty even if you ask me.

PASSING Cmp Att Pct Yds Yd/A TD Int Rating
Vince Young 212 325 65.2 3,036 9.3 26 10 163.9

Chris Simms 235 396 59.3 3,207 8.1 26 12 143.0
I'm not "forgetting" that Simms eventually had success in that offense.

I'm saying it'd be dumb to compare Simms' numbers as a Junior/Senior (when he eventually had success) to Young's numbers as a Freshman/Sophmore.

Now if Young had better numbers than Simms in that offense if you compare their Freshman/Sophomore seasons, why is it so hard to believe that Young to would've eventually succeeded in that offense? He certainly started off better than Simms.

And despite the rumors (or can somebody provide a link, quote, etc. to the contrary) that Texas changed their offense because Young struggled in it, it's not the truth.

Texas changed their offense because they knew Young was their most potent weapon on offense and the current system wasn't fully taking advantage of his strengths...not because it exposed his weaknesses. And after the run they had, who's going to argue with the results?

If you tell me that the top rated passing QB coming out of high school finished with similar passing stats as the top rated dual-threat QB coming out of high school (as you just did), which QB would you want on your team? Apparently they have the same level of talent passing the ball but one is exponentially better at running it as well.

Agree? If not, why?

trutxn
04-19-2006, 06:12 PM
There is not anyone to ever play in the NFL that can be compared to Vince Young. That is why so many teams are affraid to draft him. Vince has dominated at every level. He was more dominant than any player, remember he only played 3 entire games all season due to blowouts and still finished with 3,000 passing and 1,000 rushing. He would have easily won the Heisman over Reggie last year if he played all four quarters of each game. Anyone who thinks he will flop does not know the game, there is always a learning curve. Vince has proved he can learn. Vince is the face of Houston, the is a real Texan!

He is bigger, stronger, and more accurate than both Randal Cunningham and Mike Vick. He is faster than Elway and S. Young, and he has the leadership skills of Montana. He is a long way from the Hall of Fame, but with the right coach (Kubes), Vince could change the game like Vick was supposed to. In-Vince-ible has been around a long time for those of you who know nothing about Texas football.

trutxn
04-19-2006, 06:18 PM
\

And despite the rumors (or can somebody provide a link, quote, etc. to the contrary) that Texas changed their offense because Young struggled in it, it's not the truth.

Texas changed their offense because they knew Young was their most potent weapon on offense and the current system wasn't fully taking advantage of his strengths...not because it exposed his weaknesses. And after the run they had, who's going to argue with the results?



Texas changed their offense to maximize Vince's athletic abilities. Everyone is after Vince, how come no one is attacking how USC had to change their game plan to get Reggie involved? It is the same for any great player, you build your offense around their skills.

thunderkyss
04-19-2006, 06:52 PM
how come no one is attacking how USC had to change their game plan to get Reggie involved? It is the same for any great player, you build your offense around their skills.


Good point, I'll have to start using this one.

Tulip
04-19-2006, 10:22 PM
so you agree with me??

Yes.

El Amigo Invisible
04-19-2006, 11:19 PM
Yes.
IF we trade out of the number one pick, do you think we will still get Vince? Or are we gonna have to use the number one pick on him?:stirpot:

tulexan
04-19-2006, 11:30 PM
If we trade out of the #1 pick we are going to take who ever is left between Bush, Mario, and D'Brick.

El Amigo Invisible
04-19-2006, 11:34 PM
If we trade out of the #1 pick we are going to take who ever is left between Bush, Mario, and D'Brick.
Say it aint so. I would rather have D'Brick out of those three.

MorKnolle
04-21-2006, 09:45 PM
IF we trade out of the number one pick, do you think we will still get Vince? Or are we gonna have to use the number one pick on him?:stirpot:

Still going to get Vince? We aren't going to get Vince anyways, at #1 or after trading down. The decision is between Mario Williams and Reggie Bush with the #1 pick, the only way we trade down is on draft day if we are assured of getting Mario Williams after trading down.

Vinny
04-21-2006, 10:49 PM
He was OK. Played mostly a joker role in nickel sets. Sacked Tom Brady and shut down Vick every time he scrambled. Almost killed Terrence Murphy in the Packers game.

The Panthers like him and he will be used better this year. They are switching him to linebacker apparently.I had him pegged as a linebacker all the way... :redtowel: ...of course, we didn't take him...but sigh...they never take who I like anyway.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99820&postcount=31
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=98512&postcount=4
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99818&postcount=40

texplayer2
04-21-2006, 11:13 PM
Texas changed their offense to maximize Vince's athletic abilities. Everyone is after Vince, how come no one is attacking how USC had to change their game plan to get Reggie involved? It is the same for any great player, you build your offense around their skills.

They didn't change their game plan at all to get Reggie involved. He made the most of his chances, when given the opportunity within the scheme. He would take a five yard dump-off to the house and break ankles along the way.
USC's offense was great and Reggie was a Spark that would ignite them. They will be good this year, but I think they will lack the Spark. Texas will also be good, but I think they will lack a Spark also. Vince is a good athlete, but not the ONLY athlete.

cuppacoffee
04-21-2006, 11:36 PM
There are much bigger needs than DE. If we don't get Bush I want to see us trade down or would rather see us get a freak in Vernon Davis. This info on us potentially not drafting Bush makes me think that the organization is doing a really good job trying to hide who we are going to pick and try to get teams to trade with us. If we aren't going to get Bush I would much rather see us trade down than get Mario Williams.

I've watched a lot of the draft specials on NFL network and also on espn, (gotta get a life). I note this explain my memory lapse.

One of the talking heads on one of the shows? made the statement that the highest % of first round busts are D-linemen. He didn't quote any names or sources so I am not sure if it was just his opinion or backed up with facts. Just mentioned this because of the Mario Williams talk.

Can anyone here support his claim or shoot it down?..idonno:

:coffee:

infantrycak
04-22-2006, 12:54 AM
I had him pegged as a linebacker all the way... :redtowel: ...of course, we didn't take him...but sigh...they never take who I like anyway.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99820&postcount=31
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=98512&postcount=4
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99818&postcount=40

Wait, I'm renewing my bandwagon tickets. I was against Davis as a SS and for him as a LB and the year before was against Boulware as a LB and for him as a SS. Hey, even a pig finds a truffle...

Frank_The_Tank
04-22-2006, 01:00 AM
If the Texans pass on Bush they will take Williams, Vinc wont fall to the number four spot.

wags
04-22-2006, 01:13 AM
I had him pegged as a linebacker all the way... :redtowel: ...of course, we didn't take him...but sigh...they never take who I like anyway.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99820&postcount=31
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=98512&postcount=4
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=99818&postcount=40

Pretty amazing that he played safety and New Orleans, KC, and Carolina had him as the number #1 linebacker ahead of DJ.

Read on kffl that Terrence Murphy's career may be over from the hit Davis gave him on MNF.