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marroncito
04-14-2006, 07:51 PM
Mario Williams on his own merits could certainly deserve to be the 1st overall pick. If he were to be taken #1 overall or as part of a trade down, where would he fit on the Texans Dline?

If he played RDE, Babin and Peek would sink down the depth charts.

If he played LDE would he compete with Weaver? Did we bring Weaver in to compete (i'm a fan of competition)?

If he played LDE would Weaver move inside? Haven't both Weaver and Williams played inside in college at times?

I'm having trouble seeing how he would fit. I don't think we'd take him in the 1st for depth. Any thoughts?

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 09:41 PM
I imagine our line would look something like this:

LDE: Weaver, Kalu
DT: Smith, Payne, TJ
RDE: Williams, (Peek or Babin)

The other one, (whoever isn't #2) would get moved back to SS OLB

tulexan
04-14-2006, 11:19 PM
Mario's inconsistency worries me. He had about 78% of his sacks in 3 games.

mexican_texan
04-14-2006, 11:22 PM
Now you see why we aren't drafting him.

tulexan
04-14-2006, 11:25 PM
I would have much rather had his 14.5 sacks be consistent where it would be 1 or 2 every game, not 1 sack in the first 5 games and 2 games with 4 sacks each.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 11:50 PM
I imagine our line would look something like this:

LDE: Weaver, Kalu
DT: Smith, Payne, TJ
RDE: Williams, (Peek or Babin)

The other one, (whoever isn't #2) would get moved back to SS OLB

I believe I already hear opposing offensive coordinators smacking their lips.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 11:55 PM
Mario Williams on his own merits could certainly deserve to be the 1st overall pick. If he were to be taken #1 overall or as part of a trade down, where would he fit on the Texans Dline?

He would fit in as a darn good start anywhere in that tattered line. If the Texans ended up with him, at least they would be showing some semblance of intelligence by dealing with an obvious need and attempting to shore up that sieve of a defensive line that made opposing offensive coordinators drool the entire season. But, of course, this organization has already shown a propensity to defy logical common sense and go the exact opposite way when it comes to dealing with obvious problems and instead will probably opt for the third weedeater while the lawnmower is still in the garage, broken and unusable.

el toro
04-15-2006, 12:09 AM
He would fit in as a darn good start anywhere in that tattered line. If the Texans ended up with him, at least they would be showing some semblance of intelligence iby dealing with an obvious need and attempting to shore up that sieve of a defensive line that made opposing offensive coordinators drool the entire season. But, of course, this organization has already shown a propensity to defy logical common sence and go the exact opposite way when it comes to dealing with obvious problems and instead will probably opt for the third weedeater while the lawnmower is still in the garage, broken and unusable.

You're right. They should've kept Capers so they could go 3-13 next season.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 01:33 AM
You're right. They should've kept Capers so they could go 3-13 next season.

I'll remember this statement when the Texans turn in that very record this season.

Koolbrz
04-15-2006, 01:55 AM
Mario Williams on his own merits could certainly deserve to be the 1st overall pick. If he were to be taken #1 overall or as part of a trade down, where would he fit on the Texans Dline?

If he played RDE, Babin and Peek would sink down the depth charts.

If he played LDE would he compete with Weaver? Did we bring Weaver in to compete (i'm a fan of competition)?

If he played LDE would Weaver move inside? Haven't both Weaver and Williams played inside in college at times?

I'm having trouble seeing how he would fit. I don't think we'd take him in the 1st for depth. Any thoughts?


I hate to bring this up over and over, but it will be a huge mistake if we do not draft Reggie. Mario is a good player, but not a player worthy of the first pick in the draft. Have you seen what the scouting report is on Reggie. Looks pretty damn good too me. Like i said before i hate to beat a dead horse with a stick, but Reggie is the man. Click the link and see for yourself.http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/bush_reggie

Koolbrz
04-15-2006, 01:59 AM
Okay, now check out Mario's scouting report. You tell me who the better player is.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/williams_mario

Bobo
04-15-2006, 04:24 AM
I hate to bring this up over and over, but it will be a huge mistake if we do not draft Reggie. Mario is a good player, but not a player worthy of the first pick in the draft. Have you seen what the scouting report is on Reggie. Looks pretty damn good too me. Like i said before i hate to beat a dead horse with a stick, but Reggie is the man. Click the link and see for yourself.http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/bush_reggie

In actuality, it will be a much bigger mistake if they don't trade down. It isn't too hard to understand: The Texans already have a good RB and a good QB. They don't need one of those guys. But they were 2-14 last year because their OL was bad as was their defense. Thus, they shouldn't waste a pick on a QB or a RB but should deal with their problem areas. If you have a steak to BBQ but don't have anything to drink, do you go to the store and buy another steak and then have to choke it down because you don't have a beverage to go with it? It's really that simple. Reggie is NOT the man for the Texans. And scouting reports were very glowing on Blair Thomas, Trung Canidate, Lawrence Phillips, Kianna Carter, Archie Griffin and J.J. Arrington.

texan279
04-15-2006, 08:50 AM
link (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9375472)


Yet, in addition to trying to start up contract talks with USC running back Reggie Bush, the Houston Texans continue reaching out to North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams to get him to try to negotiate on a contract. Williams is leery about being used as leverage, but the Texans insist it is not about that.

nunusguy
04-15-2006, 09:46 AM
Mario's inconsistency worries me. He had about 78% of his sacks in 3 games.
Good point Tulexan. Could be a red flag as it might also mean he does not perform that well, might even struggle against some good OTs. As talent evaluators like to point out, the real test of the ability of college players and their chances to succeed in the NFL is how they perform in good matchups, i.e.
against strong opposition and not lesser opponents.

PapaL
04-15-2006, 10:22 AM
In actuality, it will be a much bigger mistake if they don't trade down. It isn't too hard to understand: The Texans already have a good RB and a good QB. They don't need one of those guys. But they were 2-14 last year because their OL was bad as was their defense. Thus, they shouldn't waste a pick on a QB or a RB but should deal with their problem areas. If you have a steak to BBQ but don't have anything to drink, do you go to the store and buy another steak and then have to choke it down because you don't have a beverage to go with it? It's really that simple. Reggie is NOT the man for the Texans. And scouting reports were very glowing on Blair Thomas, Trung Canidate, Lawrence Phillips, Kianna Carter, Archie Griffin and J.J. Arrington.

The Colts had a pretty good RB (Faulk) when they traded him for the chance to draft Edge. We have a serviceable back in DD and a chance to get a special back in RB.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:10 AM
The Colts had a pretty good RB (Faulk) when they traded him for the chance to draft Edge. We have a serviceable back in DD and a chance to get a special back in RB.

Davis is a tried and tested RB. Bush is untested and a crapshoot, just as are all RBs out of college. Why go for a throw of the dice when you've already got a good one whose only limit to greatness is the lack of a passing attack due to poor protection?

PapaL
04-15-2006, 11:24 AM
Davis is a tried and tested RB. Bush is untested and a crapshoot, just as are all RBs out of college. Why go for a throw of the dice when you've already got a good one whose only limit to greatness is the lack of a passing attack due to poor protection?

That is not DD's only knock. The guy always misses a few whole games every year and parts of others. He does not have "take it to the house" speed. He is an ok back far from greatness. Misses blocks.

Lets compare him to Olandis Gary and whichever RB he shared time with in Denvers system. They did alright, put up 1000'ish yards. All that changed when Portis came around. All of a sudden they had a 1500 yard rusher. Which would you rather have; 1000 or 1500 yard rusher?

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:41 AM
That is not DD's only knock. The guy always misses a few whole games every year and parts of others. He does not have "take it to the house" speed. He is an ok back far from greatness. Misses blocks.

Lets compare him to Olandis Gary and whichever RB he shared time with in Denvers system. They did alright, put up 1000'ish yards. All that changed when Portis came around. All of a sudden they had a 1500 yard rusher. Which would you rather have; 1000 or 1500 yard rusher?

Umm, I'd rather have an offensive line that will make DD a 1500 yard rusher and then maybe he won't get so beaten up having to run behind a less than adequate offensive line. If he had that offensive line, he would have a chance to be great. And once again, Reggie Bush is a crapshoot. Lawrence Phillips had "house to house" speed too. Buf for some reason, that didn't translate to success in the NFL. D-Davis misses blocks -- oh, wow. So did Jimmy Brown. I think you are really, really straining to justify the Reggie Bush pick when the Texans already have a good RB who could be great with a good line. Reggie Bush is just a college kid. He is NOT a guarantee. I don't know why so many people think he is. Then again, they also thought that about Blair Thomas, Trung Canidate, Lawrence Phillips, Kianna Carter and Archie Griffin. Do you catch my drift? Bush has no NFL track record behind him. He played for an overpowering offensive line in college -- something he wouldn't have in Houston. Davis has proven -- and I repeat -- proven in the NFL that he is one of the best players on a very, very weak Houston team. Bush would be a good pick for a team that didn't already have a good RB and was halfway decent everywhere else. That is not the situation the Texans are in now. Bush is the wrong pick for this team at this time and that is very obvious.

Coach C.
04-15-2006, 12:07 PM
First RB and Mario have the ability to be outstanding pros. Both should translate well and each has their own set of problems. Tulexan brought up that his inconsistency troubles him. I recommend looking at the FSU game were he consistently applied pressure and was one of the main reasons they beat them. NCST was not a very good team this year, there offense was abysmal, but their defense really stepped up and it was mainly because of Mario. Yes he does slow down on plays and will take some off, but every great DE in the league does the same thing, Carmelowitz's job will be to make sure that he is aggressive as often as possible, probably something like 6 out of 10 plays that will work quite nicely for us. Remember people that Williams will play more plays than Bush will.

If you look at his prospect profile on nfl.com you will see he is rated the same as Reggie, because they are both elite level players. Your choice is offense or defense when you make the pick. If you want a scary offense that is fun to watch and will put up stats, but struggle against teams such as Jacksonville, Steelers, and NE then we pick Bush. If you want a scary defense that punishes and intimidates, but struggles against teams like Seattle, Carolina, and Miami then you pick Williams.

Now not saying that either unit will not be adequate just because we pick one of these guys, because there are many more picks for us in the draft and we should come out of this draft with at least 3-4 solid players and possibly two starters.

Now as for the thread purpose Williams is the pick then we would move Weaver inside, and possibly play him on obvious running plays and goaline at DE. He is a penetrating 1 gap DT similar to Rocky Benard and likely would have his greatest success there. So the line would look like Williams, Payne, Weaver, Peek at LB Orr, Wong/Cowart/Rookie, Greenwood that is a very fast and aggressive front seven that can handle the run, pass, and create pressure very similar to the Seattle Seahawks or Carolina Panters.

Kaiser Toro
04-15-2006, 12:13 PM
Now as for the thread purpose Williams is the pick then we would move Weaver inside, and possibly play him on obvious running plays and goaline at DE. He is a penetrating 1 gap DT similar to Rocky Benard and likely would have his greatest success there. So the line would look like Williams, Payne, Weaver, Peek at LB Orr, Wong/Cowart/Rookie, Greenwood that is a very fast and aggressive front seven that can handle the run, pass, and create pressure very similar to the Seattle Seahawks or Carolina Panters.

You project Payne and Weaver over Smith and Johnson in the middle?

Coach C.
04-15-2006, 12:18 PM
Yeah KT I thought about that for a while and the fact is this, Payne has tenacity and can handle that nose better than anyone on our team. He will only be here for a year, because moving Weaver inside makes him expendable. Payne just has that dirty factor that I like in my linemen. Robaire and TJ are solid, but as for the best fit for pressure and run stopping that would be my mix. Robaire and TJ would likely get Payne on passing downs. Moreso TJ than Robaire. I am a big fan of Robaire, and he will likely play better now that Walker is gone, but he is extremely inconsistent. You know how you want that guy that is just going to scrap every play he is out there, that guy on our team is Payne and that is overall why he got the nod over TJ and Robaire.

Kaiser Toro
04-15-2006, 12:22 PM
Yeah KT I thought about that for a while and the fact is this, Payne has tenacity and can handle that nose better than anyone on our team. He will only be here for a year, because moving Weaver inside makes him expendable. Payne just has that dirty factor that I like in my linemen. Robaire and TJ are solid, but as for the best fit for pressure and run stopping that would be my mix. Robaire and TJ would likely get Payne on passing downs. Moreso TJ than Robaire. I am a big fan of Robaire, and he will likely play better now that Walker is gone, but he is extremely inconsistent. You know how you want that guy that is just going to scrap every play he is out there, that guy on our team is Payne and that is overall why he got the nod over TJ and Robaire.

Was just tryin to extract on how you arrived to that conclusion and difficult to disagree with it. I like Payne's tenacity as well. I really want to give TJ every opportunity to win a position on the inside. We have yet to have anyone from the draft be a force in the front seven, that is a trend that needs to stop.

bckey
04-15-2006, 12:31 PM
I disagree with coachc. I believe it would look like this:

Weaver/Johnson/Smith or Payne/Williams

It makes no sense to move Weaver inside when we already have 3 good dt's. I don't know where Babin and Peek would fit in but our line would be dominating with the addition of Williams.

PapaL
04-15-2006, 12:44 PM
After paying Weaver to come here, I think he will stay at DE. If Williams is drafted, he would automatically take the other DE spot. Babin, Peek, and the rest of the DE/OLB would be the backups. I dont se ethe point of drafting Williams and playing him at DT, especially when we already have 3 pretty good guys fighting for playing time.

nunusguy
04-15-2006, 12:45 PM
It makes no sense to move Weaver inside when we already have 3 good dt's.
And it makes even less sense to shell out a big contract (including guaranteed
money of something like 12 M), for a guy who would be a DT for us when we already have the 3 other guys (all very expensive for us I might add) who are
DTs.
I dunno....but they said they were getting Weaver 'cause we didn't have a
bona fide 4-3 DE for the strongside. And even though Weaver's sack production was unimpressive, it was understated because he was in a 3-4 at Baltimore, and we know that's a tough D for a downlinman to get sacks in.
See, this thing with Williams is a charade, just like bringing in Young is. Unless
of course they trade the pick, and Williams is till on the Board for their substituted pick. But they won't use the #1 on him, even if he's the top
guy on their Board "for Defensive" players.

MorKnolle
04-15-2006, 01:32 PM
Mario Williams on his own merits could certainly deserve to be the 1st overall pick. If he were to be taken #1 overall or as part of a trade down, where would he fit on the Texans Dline?

If he played RDE, Babin and Peek would sink down the depth charts.

If he played LDE would he compete with Weaver? Did we bring Weaver in to compete (i'm a fan of competition)?

If he played LDE would Weaver move inside? Haven't both Weaver and Williams played inside in college at times?

I'm having trouble seeing how he would fit. I don't think we'd take him in the 1st for depth. Any thoughts?

He could fit all over the place and give our defense a ton of looks to throw at opposing offenses.

On regular downs/running situations:
LDE Anthony Weaver (6-3, 280 lbs.)
LDT Seth Payne (6-4, 303 lbs.)
RDT Robaire Smith (6-4, 310 lbs.)
RDE: Mario Williams (6-7, 295 lbs.)
That is a ton of beef up front that will be very tough to run against, and Mario still provides a nice pass rush from the weak side if they do drop back to pass.

On passing situations:
LDE Mario Williams (6-7, 295 lbs.)
LDT Travis Johnson (6-3, 305 lbs.) or Robaire Smith (6-4, 310 lbs.)
RDT Anthony Weaver (6-3, 280 lbs.)
RDE Antwan Peek (6-3, 250 lbs. as of last year, should be more by now)
That is a ton of speed up front to get some nice penetration into the backfield, plus there is still a lot of size in the middle and at strongside end.

Run a 3-4 package to give a different look:
LDE Anthony Weaver
NT Seth Payne
RDE Mario Williams
drop Antwan Peek back to pass-rushing OLB
Mario is definitely big and strong enough to play 3-4 DE, and Weaver has mainly played 3-4 DE in the past, so they should provide a nice DL with Seth Payne when we switch to a 3-4.

Mario gives our defense a ton of options.

I hate to bring this up over and over, but it will be a huge mistake if we do not draft Reggie. Mario is a good player, but not a player worthy of the first pick in the draft. Have you seen what the scouting report is on Reggie. Looks pretty damn good too me. Like i said before i hate to beat a dead horse with a stick, but Reggie is the man. Click the link and see for yourself.http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/bush_reggie

There are some scouts (and at least one NFL team that I know of) that have Mario rated higher than Reggie Bush.

bad
04-15-2006, 02:19 PM
There are some scouts (and at least one NFL team that I know of) that have Mario rated higher than Reggie Bush. What?

Who?

Where?

It'd be great if you could post links to these sources. A quote from some scouts and someone from an NFL team that you know of would carry a lot more weight than just, you know, a guy typing stuff.

Mike Kerns
04-15-2006, 02:54 PM
There are some scouts (and at least one NFL team that I know of) that have Mario rated higher than Reggie Bush.


Yeah, & one guy thought that Ricky Williams was worth his teams entire draft. How'd that work out for him?

Vinny
04-15-2006, 02:59 PM
Yeah, & one guy thought that Ricky Williams was worth his teams entire draft. How'd that work out for him?They got a bunch of picks...but the list is not very exciting. I'd rather have Vince Young or Reggie Bush by themselves than those 8 guys. Trading an elite pick for later riskier picks isn't always going to work out just because you have numbers.

The Ricky Williams compensation:

Round-Player-Year Team Position Player
1-12-1999 QB Cade McNown
3-71-1999 WR D'Wayne Bates
4-107-1999 LB Nate Stimson
5-144-1999 LB Khari Samuel
6-179-1999 TE Desmond Clark
7-218-1999 WR Billy Miller
1-2-2000 LB La'Var Arrington
3-64-2000 DB Lloyd Harrison

bad
04-15-2006, 03:04 PM
They got a bunch of picks...but the list is not very exciting. I'd rather have Vince Young or Reggie Bush by themselves than those 8 guys. Trading an elite pick for later riskier picks isn't always going to work out just because you have volume.

Round-Player-Year Team Position Player
1-12-1999 QB Cade McNown
3-71-1999 WR D'Wayne Bates
4-107-1999 LB Nate Stimson
5-144-1999 LB Khari Samuel
6-179-1999 TE Desmond Clark
7-218-1999 WR Billy Miller
1-2-2000 LB La'Var Arrington
3-64-2000 DB Lloyd Harrison Wow.

I remember laughing at Ditka when he made that trade, but in retrospect...

bckey
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
They got a bunch of picks...but the list is not very exciting. I'd rather have Vince Young or Reggie Bush by themselves than those 8 guys. Trading an elite pick for later riskier picks isn't always going to work out just because you have numbers.


I think this year if the Texans could trade down with the Jets they could still get Vince if they wanted.

Koolbrz
04-16-2006, 12:35 AM
He could fit all over the place and give our defense a ton of looks to throw at opposing offenses.

On regular downs/running situations:
LDE Anthony Weaver (6-3, 280 lbs.)
LDT Seth Payne (6-4, 303 lbs.)
RDT Robaire Smith (6-4, 310 lbs.)
RDE: Mario Williams (6-7, 295 lbs.)
That is a ton of beef up front that will be very tough to run against, and Mario still provides a nice pass rush from the weak side if they do drop back to pass.

On passing situations:
LDE Mario Williams (6-7, 295 lbs.)
LDT Travis Johnson (6-3, 305 lbs.) or Robaire Smith (6-4, 310 lbs.)
RDT Anthony Weaver (6-3, 280 lbs.)
RDE Antwan Peek (6-3, 250 lbs. as of last year, should be more by now)
That is a ton of speed up front to get some nice penetration into the backfield, plus there is still a lot of size in the middle and at strongside end.

Run a 3-4 package to give a different look:
LDE Anthony Weaver
NT Seth Payne
RDE Mario Williams
drop Antwan Peek back to pass-rushing OLB
Mario is definitely big and strong enough to play 3-4 DE, and Weaver has mainly played 3-4 DE in the past, so they should provide a nice DL with Seth Payne when we switch to a 3-4.

Mario gives our defense a ton of options.



There are some scouts (and at least one NFL team that I know of) that have Mario rated higher than Reggie Bush.


I dont see how he can be rated higher than Bush when he gives up on plays going in the opposite direction. He just stops playing when the play is not going in his direction and he is not very consistent. Look over his report and then tell me what you think.

Koolbrz
04-16-2006, 12:49 AM
In actuality, it will be a much bigger mistake if they don't trade down. It isn't too hard to understand: The Texans already have a good RB and a good QB. They don't need one of those guys. But they were 2-14 last year because their OL was bad as was their defense. Thus, they shouldn't waste a pick on a QB or a RB but should deal with their problem areas. If you have a steak to BBQ but don't have anything to drink, do you go to the store and buy another steak and then have to choke it down because you don't have a beverage to go with it? It's really that simple. Reggie is NOT the man for the Texans. And scouting reports were very glowing on Blair Thomas, Trung Canidate, Lawrence Phillips, Kianna Carter, Archie Griffin and J.J. Arrington.


RB is the best back coming out of college in years, including the years when the guys you mentioned came out. IMO They dont even come close to this guy in talent. The OL looks better than what it did a few weeks ago and i believe our DL is going to surprise some people this yr, considering the switch to the 4-3 defense. Drafting Bush is the way to go. It will be like trading in your VW Beatle for a Corvette.

Coach C.
04-16-2006, 08:07 AM
By the way Bush is not rated higher than Kianna Carter, he was at minimum the hype Bush has today. Vinny do you remember Kianna. That dude had more hype than damn I really cannot remember other than maybe back in the QB draft. Now I am one that thinks we cannot go wrong with Mario or Bush and it is a decision right now on defense vs. offense vs. money.

Kaiser Toro
04-16-2006, 11:29 AM
By the way Bush is not rated higher than Kianna Carter, he was at minimum the hype Bush has today. Vinny do you remember Kianna. That dude had more hype than damn I really cannot remember other than maybe back in the QB draft. Now I am one that thinks we cannot go wrong with Mario or Bush and it is a decision right now on defense vs. offense vs. money.

I thought Kijana was a dynamic back and still to this today believe that the PSU offense that year was the most complete offensive attack I have ever seen. I thought Carter, George won the Heisman that year if memory serves me well, was going to be one of the greats. Was he hyped? No more than any other player that is positioned to be #1, but I thought he was worth it.

The question is Bush as good as the hype? I believe he will be, but that does not change my position that the Texans need to draft what makes them incrementally a better team and it is not using the #1 on a RB or QB in my opinion.

beerlover
04-16-2006, 11:36 AM
the Texans need to draft what makes them incrementally a better team and it is not using the #1 on a RB or QB in my opinion.

that incremental BS is what got them here in the 1st place :brickwall

tulexan
04-16-2006, 11:41 AM
By the way Bush is not rated higher than Kianna Carter, he was at minimum the hype Bush has today. Vinny do you remember Kianna. That dude had more hype than damn I really cannot remember other than maybe back in the QB draft. Now I am one that thinks we cannot go wrong with Mario or Bush and it is a decision right now on defense vs. offense vs. money.


Ki-Jana was a different story because he got injured in preseason and never was the same. Injuries can happen to anyone at any position. It's not like Ki-Jana was always healthy, but was bad, he just was unlucky and got hurt.

Vinny
04-16-2006, 11:46 AM
By the way Bush is not rated higher than Kianna Carter, he was at minimum the hype Bush has today. Vinny do you remember Kianna. That dude had more hype than damn I really cannot remember other than maybe back in the QB draft. Now I am one that thinks we cannot go wrong with Mario or Bush and it is a decision right now on defense vs. offense vs. money.Carter was pretty much a "can't miss" back before the draft. Backs tend to have short careers since all 11 guys are looking to hit them on each play...sinking 1st overall pick money on a back is risky

MorKnolle
04-16-2006, 05:33 PM
I dont see how he can be rated higher than Bush when he gives up on plays going in the opposite direction. He just stops playing when the play is not going in his direction and he is not very consistent. Look over his report and then tell me what you think.

What defensive player doesn't occasionally give up on plays headed in the opposite direction? Sure I saw a few of those in his games but I also saw him hustle after people and chase down plays from the backside just as much if not more than any plays he gave up on. What report are you wanting me to look over?

threetoedpete
04-16-2006, 09:11 PM
Mario's inconsistency worries me. He had about 78% of his sacks in 3 games.
Ditto. If we take Super Mario, I'm on board. He's a physical freak and fills a need. BUT....anytime I hear about a guy like that great potential, questionable motor, I remeber Sean Gilbert. When Gilbert wanted to play, he could destroy an offense. Trouble was, he seldom felt like playing. I feel a lot better with Huff or Hawk if they gotta have a defensive player. .

threetoedpete
04-16-2006, 09:24 PM
What defensive player doesn't occasionally give up on plays headed in the opposite direction? Sure I saw a few of those in his games but I also saw him hustle after people and chase down plays from the backside just as much if not more than any plays he gave up on. What report are you wanting me to look over?
Elvin Bethea, Randy White, Bob Lilly, Hacksaw Reynolds,Lawerance Taylor, Reggie White, .........

Koolbrz
04-16-2006, 11:33 PM
What defensive player doesn't occasionally give up on plays headed in the opposite direction? Sure I saw a few of those in his games but I also saw him hustle after people and chase down plays from the backside just as much if not more than any plays he gave up on. What report are you wanting me to look over?


Dude if your going to be picked number 1 in the draft, you just don't give up. You and i both know what will happen if for some reason the running back reverses his field. I would rather he be there in pursuit than he not trying and gets planted on his *** when he gets blind sided with a block. Seen it happen one to many times in the past. He could be a very good player, but his inconsistency worries me. That is why i say we go with Bush. He just brings so much more to the table. Look over Mario's scouting report. Keep in mind these guys know more about football than you and i. You can even compare him to Reggie. I want to know what you think after looking over there reports.




http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/423846

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/407605

Kaiser Toro
04-16-2006, 11:43 PM
Dude if your going to be picked number 1 in the draft, you just don't give up. You and i both know what will happen if for some reason the running back reverses his field. I would rather he be there in pursuit than he not trying and gets planted on his *** when he gets blind sided with a block. Seen it happen one to many times in the past. He could be a very good player, but his inconsistency worries me. That is why i say we go with Bush. He just brings so much more to the table. Look over Mario's scouting report. Keep in mind these guys know more about football than you and i. You can even compare him to Reggie. I want to know what you think after looking over there reports.




http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/423846

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/407605

Just because it is written does not make it so. There are many on this board that know more than the people behind the words on the web and even reporters. It ain't the gospel. Moreover, they did not even get Mario's college correct.

Koolbrz
04-17-2006, 12:13 AM
Just because it is written does not make it so. There are many on this board that know more than the people behind the words on the web and even reporters. It ain't the gospel. Moreover, they did not even get Mario's college correct.


These are reports put together by NFL scouts not the people at cbssportsline. I still do not see the Texans picking him up with the number 1 pick. Too much inconsistency is what has this team at the bottom along with bad coaching and not very good players. Problems are being taken care of and i do hope that they don't miss out on Reggie. Been a long time since a player of his caliber has come out of college. Sorry but DE's do not score TD's. I would rather see Reggie running by this guy than mario trying to chase reggie down from behind. Not going to happen..

Kaiser Toro
04-17-2006, 12:21 AM
These are reports put together by NFL scouts not the people at cbssportsline. I still do not see the Texans picking him up with the number 1 pick. Too much inconsistency is what has this team at the bottom along with bad coaching and not very good players. Problems are being taken care of and i do hope that they don't miss out on Reggie. Been a long time since a player of his caliber has come out of college. Sorry but DE's do not score TD's. I would rather see Reggie running by this guy than mario trying to chase reggie down from behind. Not going to happen..

You may want to check your source again. I by the way do agree with your optimism and value your opinion, but please don't trump up the reports by implying they are done by a collection of NFL Scouts.

tulexan
04-17-2006, 12:36 AM
I'm just a little worried that when he played against a good offense he didn't play that well and he has almost all of his sacks in three games towards the end of the season against mediocre to bad teams

Coach C.
04-17-2006, 09:12 AM
First, Tulexan his best game on film is against FSU. The best team they faced and he dominated that game whether in coverage, rushing, or holding the point of attack.

Inconsistency, is this what Bush showed in a stretch this season, I mean please anyone who has played football understands you are not gonna give chase to someone who's intent is on the other side of the field. Look at his games, he ran toward the guy as he was running opposite way and then he would slow down, if the guy reversed field(which did happen) he made the play. Several times he hunted down backs that would be considered fast from the backside.

Mario Williams is a terror, and yeah like most D-linemen he needs a boot in the @ss to make sure he is pounding on all the plays that he is in there remember out of the 85plays each way Mario will play many more than Reggie would. Also dont remember the guy that put up Behtea, White, and those great DL but if you watch their tape, yep you guessed it they did the same thing. Big men dont like to expend a lot of energy on a chasing a guy down on the other sideline who is corraled by LBs. You stay in your lane and if the unlucky running back desides to come your way you punish him. Like THomas Davis said with bad intentions.

Now both guys are studs and it just depends on what you want to be better due to the draft this year. We have focused on offense this FA period. On defense we have brought in a high priced DT/run-stoppingDE, some older veterans for leadership, and some guys that will likely not make it through camp. To me I want an intimidating defense. You have that and you usually can write your own playoff ticket.

kastofsna
04-17-2006, 10:18 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/williams_mario

"Williams is a huge defensive end, so despite his topnotch athleticism, he will never be the explosive-off-the-ball speed/edge rusher that Freeney is. Williams can beat offensive tackles around corner, but not as easily as Freeney can. He needs to become more consistent getting off the ball explosively every snap. He does not always chase hard after the ball in backside pursuit; he just pulls up and quits chasing occasionally. He does not protect legs from low/cut blocks well and can be slowed down by them. "

not that big of a deal to me.

Kaiser Toro
04-17-2006, 10:44 AM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/williams_mario

"Williams is a huge defensive end, so despite his topnotch athleticism, he will never be the explosive-off-the-ball speed/edge rusher that Freeney is. Williams can beat offensive tackles around corner, but not as easily as Freeney can. He needs to become more consistent getting off the ball explosively every snap. He does not always chase hard after the ball in backside pursuit; he just pulls up and quits chasing occasionally. He does not protect legs from low/cut blocks well and can be slowed down by them. "

not that big of a deal to me.

I have not seen anyone else but this old Browns scout compare him to Freeney. Different type players playing a similar position. It would be interesting to see how this guy rated Freeney.

Koolbrz
04-17-2006, 07:26 PM
First, Tulexan his best game on film is against FSU. The best team they faced and he dominated that game whether in coverage, rushing, or holding the point of attack.

Inconsistency, is this what Bush showed in a stretch this season, I mean please anyone who has played football understands you are not gonna give chase to someone who's intent is on the other side of the field. Look at his games, he ran toward the guy as he was running opposite way and then he would slow down, if the guy reversed field(which did happen) he made the play. Several times he hunted down backs that would be considered fast from the backside.

Mario Williams is a terror, and yeah like most D-linemen he needs a boot in the @ss to make sure he is pounding on all the plays that he is in there remember out of the 85plays each way Mario will play many more than Reggie would. Also dont remember the guy that put up Behtea, White, and those great DL but if you watch their tape, yep you guessed it they did the same thing. Big men dont like to expend a lot of energy on a chasing a guy down on the other sideline who is corraled by LBs. You stay in your lane and if the unlucky running back desides to come your way you punish him. Like THomas Davis said with bad intentions.

Now both guys are studs and it just depends on what you want to be better due to the draft this year. We have focused on offense this FA period. On defense we have brought in a high priced DT/run-stoppingDE, some older veterans for leadership, and some guys that will likely not make it through camp. To me I want an intimidating defense. You have that and you usually can write your own playoff ticket.


I agree with most of what you say, but this was in college. In the NFL he will get his *** planted with a blind sided block if he lets up. Happens all the time. Another thing is do you honestly feel that someone should have to put a boot on his *** to get him to play CONSISTENTLY! The money he would be making should be motivation enough. By the way, there are a few DE's in the league that do not let up. They keep going after the guy with the ball, wether it be the QB or RB. Freeney is one guy that comes to mind. Never have i seen this guy let up. Most of us on here have played football and know what the game is about. I for one have played from LL. thru H.S. and in an adult league in the area where i live. I know this is no where near being the NFL, but all coaches tell you the same thing. You should know Coach. You don't stop, defensivley, until you get the guy with the football and you keep that back side pusuit coming you just never know when that rb will reverse his field. Just the basics.

Koolbrz
04-17-2006, 07:35 PM
You may want to check your source again. I by the way do agree with your optimism and value your opinion, but please don't trump up the reports by implying they are done by a collection of NFL Scouts.


Okay dude i see what your saying. This guy ( Russ Lande) is an ex-NFL scout. I will still stick to my opinion though. Have A Good Day!!

MorKnolle
04-18-2006, 10:32 PM
What?

Who?

Where?

It'd be great if you could post links to these sources. A quote from some scouts and someone from an NFL team that you know of would carry a lot more weight than just, you know, a guy typing stuff.

In case any of you are not watching NFL Draft Preview on ESPN right now, they just said that at least 6 NFL teams have Mario rated higher than Bush, and if Mario had played as well at the beginning of the year as the end that he would most likely be the consensus #1. Interesting how I have been saying this for a couple days now...

Dude if your going to be picked number 1 in the draft, you just don't give up. You and i both know what will happen if for some reason the running back reverses his field. I would rather he be there in pursuit than he not trying and gets planted on his *** when he gets blind sided with a block. Seen it happen one to many times in the past. He could be a very good player, but his inconsistency worries me. That is why i say we go with Bush. He just brings so much more to the table. Look over Mario's scouting report. Keep in mind these guys know more about football than you and i. You can even compare him to Reggie. I want to know what you think after looking over there reports.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/423846

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/407605

Williams is a huge defensive end, so despite his topnotch athleticism, he will never be the explosive-off-the-ball speed/edge rusher that Freeney is. Williams can beat offensive tackles around corner, but not as easily as Freeney can. He needs to become more consistent getting off the ball explosively every snap. He does not always chase hard after the ball in backside pursuit; he just pulls up and quits chasing occasionally. He does not protect legs from low/cut blocks well and can be slowed down by them.

That is all the bad things they can find about him. I never said he doesn't occasionally give up on plays, I said I have seen that a few times, my point was what defensive players don't stop running if the play is going the other way, they get double-team blocked and are 20 yards behind the play when they get free? I would like to have seen him play a little more consistently, but if that's the biggest knock that people can find on him it doesn't change my opinion of him at all.

These are reports put together by NFL scouts not the people at cbssportsline. I still do not see the Texans picking him up with the number 1 pick. Too much inconsistency is what has this team at the bottom along with bad coaching and not very good players. Problems are being taken care of and i do hope that they don't miss out on Reggie. Been a long time since a player of his caliber has come out of college. Sorry but DE's do not score TD's. I would rather see Reggie running by this guy than mario trying to chase reggie down from behind. Not going to happen..

I hate to bring up the old cliche that has been beat to death on here, but even if Mario gives up on backside pursuit 2-3 plays per game, would you rather have a dominant force in the game every single play on the defensive side of the ball and giving it 100% on 95% of the plays, or see a great RB that is on the field for 80% of the plays and being directly involved in the play maybe 60% of the time?

Right now I honestly think it is a much closer decision than most people think, I think the entire defensive staff is pulling for Mario while the entire offensive staff is pulling for Bush, it just depends on which side is more stubborn and convincing and if there are any significant differences in salary demands. Kubiak is an offensive coach, so in one sense he might want to add a bunch of offensive players to fix up his offense, but at the same time he might feel more confident in himself running our offense with our current players and looking to stock up the defensive side of the ball, which is probably weaker on paper anyways. I am very eager to see what happens in 11 days, either way I think we get a phenomenal player and can't wait to see what either one can bring to our team this year.

I agree with most of what you say, but this was in college. In the NFL he will get his *** planted with a blind sided block if he lets up. Happens all the time. Another thing is do you honestly feel that someone should have to put a boot on his *** to get him to play CONSISTENTLY! The money he would be making should be motivation enough. By the way, there are a few DE's in the league that do not let up. They keep going after the guy with the ball, wether it be the QB or RB. Freeney is one guy that comes to mind. Never have i seen this guy let up. Most of us on here have played football and know what the game is about. I for one have played from LL. thru H.S. and in an adult league in the area where i live. I know this is no where near being the NFL, but all coaches tell you the same thing. You should know Coach. You don't stop, defensivley, until you get the guy with the football and you keep that back side pusuit coming you just never know when that rb will reverse his field. Just the basics.

If you specifically watch any DLineman every play you will see every single one of them let up occasionally when they are not close to the play, it happens. I think this Mario "taking plays off" is getting blown out of proportion by people that have not actually seen him play and are just taking a generic statement that was made by a couple of people and overexaggerating its importance.