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gtexan02
04-14-2006, 10:12 AM
I've just got to say wow. This has been one helluva ride for me, and hopefully its not ending here. I mean, this has been the best offseason I've ever experienced as a Texans fan.

It all started with that SF 49ers game. I don't like to be a "cheer for the loss" kind of guy, but in this case, I was.

Next came the Rosebowl. VY, Bush, Leinart, Lendale were all doing their best to raise their draft stock. After the game, I realized how amazing our draft position was.

Then the Free Agents/Trade. The Weaver signing would have been enough (based on my old expectations) but then we go out and get Putzier, Flannagan, Moulds, Cowart, and Kalu.

The pro days were next on the agenda, and again, our draft position was only made more valuable.

Now we've got articles and stories on the revamped team. 30th ranked run defense? 4-3 + Weaver + Cowart = fixed! (hopefully). 30th ranked offense? Kubiak + Cook + Moulds + Putzier + Flannagan + Motivating Carr = fixed!

And lastly, with the players we've brought in for interviews, how can anyone not be excited. The three players we're negotiating with: Bush, Williams, Young. All 3 could be superstars in the NFL if they live up to their hype.

Here it is in summary form: We tank the 49ers, the rosebowl showcased some 1st round talent, we had countless holes on both sides of the ball that we actually filled with decent players, the coaches and players express confidence in their new schemes, and the worst player we will bring in on April 29th could be a rookie probowler. Awesome!

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 10:17 AM
Oh, and by the way, feel free to critically analyze this post if you are more of the downer type. But let me warn one thing:
-Please don't use the "You can't predict a rookie's contribution without him ever playing a down in the nfl!"

I'm sorry, but that is just stupid. True, you shouldn't say he WILL be a probowler, but if you can't at least PROJECT him to be a probowler in 2-3 years, he shouldn't be first round grade. Scout have a job, and that job is to watch college game film, take measureable stats, compare playing ability to past professionals with similar styles, and make INFORMED GUESSES about the successfulness of a prospect. So while it is impossible to say "he WILL be Gale Sayers" you shouldn't be reprimanded for saying "he could be a superstar" because if you are picked that high, you SHOULD be a superstar

Porky
04-14-2006, 10:27 AM
Good stuff overall. I can't quite get fully onboard with your 4/3+Weaver+Cowart =fixed defense. I think we have a long ways to go, but I think we will see some real progress on D this year.

Runner
04-14-2006, 10:31 AM
Good stuff overall. I can't quite get fully onboard with your 4/3+Weaver+Cowart =fixed defense. I think we have a long ways to go, but I think we will see some real progress on D this year.

Taking a large step toward average on defense this year is fairly successful, given the attention that is being paid to offense. Going into the off-season I thought they'd only be able to show large improvement on one side of that ball this year; however it appears we're making pretty good progress on both sides.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 11:00 AM
I've just got to say wow. This has been one helluva ride for me, and hopefully its not ending here. I mean, this has been the best offseason I've ever experienced as a Texans fan.

It all started with that SF 49ers game. I don't like to be a "cheer for the loss" kind of guy, but in this case, I was.

Next came the Rosebowl. VY, Bush, Leinart, Lendale were all doing their best to raise their draft stock. After the game, I realized how amazing our draft position was.

Then the Free Agents/Trade. The Weaver signing would have been enough (based on my old expectations) but then we go out and get Putzier, Flannagan, Moulds, Cowart, and Kalu.

The pro days were next on the agenda, and again, our draft position was only made more valuable.

Now we've got articles and stories on the revamped team. 30th ranked run defense? 4-3 + Weaver + Cowart = fixed! (hopefully). 30th ranked offense? Kubiak + Cook + Moulds + Putzier + Flannagan + Motivating Carr = fixed!

And lastly, with the players we've brought in for interviews, how can anyone not be excited. The three players we're negotiating with: Bush, Williams, Young. All 3 could be superstars in the NFL if they live up to their hype.

Here it is in summary form: We tank the 49ers, the rosebowl showcased some 1st round talent, we had countless holes on both sides of the ball that we actually filled with decent players, the coaches and players express confidence in their new schemes, and the worst player we will bring in on April 29th could be a rookie probowler. Awesome!

As stated on this board on numerous occasions, most unbiased observers believe this type of assessment is nothing but the exclamations of homers wearing rose-colored glasses. Until the offensive line starts blocking somebody to keep Carr from having to run for his life and until the defense can actually prevent opposing RBs from running up team records, then all of this "awesome" talk is nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. The OL is still a mess and unproven and the defensive improvements are minimal at best. How you can describe this offseason as "awesome" is beyond me.

touttail
04-14-2006, 11:14 AM
Great post!:redtowel:

My gawd, anything has to be better this year than a 2-14 record.
There is so much excitement in the air with our team. Just can't imagine what it would be like if Capers was still coach!

Bobby 119C

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 11:50 AM
As stated on this board on numerous occasions, most unbiased observers believe this type of assessment is nothing but the exclamations of homers wearing rose-colored glasses. Until the offensive line starts blocking somebody to keep Carr from having to run for his life and until the defense can actually prevent opposing RBs from running up team records, then all of this "awesome" talk is nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. The OL is still a mess and unproven and the defensive improvements are minimal at best. How you can describe this offseason as "awesome" is beyond me.

So basically what you are saying is you can't get excited about what your team does in the offseason, because you can't be 100% sure how it will turn out in the regular season. Therefore you are only allowed to show optimism once you have already witnessed success? Odd. Did anyone blame the Baltimore Ravens for being optimistic last season pre August? Nope, in fact, most people thought they were SB contenders on paper. Then again, did anyone blame the SD fans for being optimistic prior to 2004 season? Yup, but they went out and showed the changes they made were enough.

The point I'm trying to make here is that when can you be optimistic about hte possibility of your team making a big turnaround? According to you, it won't be until at least a few games into the season when I see physical proof, and then its no longer optimism, its simply "the way it is."

You mention OL blocking. Well, we got the offensive coordinator from one of the traditional best OLs in the league. We picked up a probowl center who has loads of experience in blocking for both an allpro QB and probowl HB. We hired a former head coach of the Green Bay packers to be our OL coach! We moved our out of place center from the middle of the line to guard position, where he excelled in Indy. We have come out publicly saying we will address the OL in the "middle rounds" because thats where zone blockers are usually found. Kubiak has made multiple exclamations on how DC is studying hard and returning to the basics and will be bootlegging/running a bit more. All of this looks REAL good on paper, and yes, while no games have officially been played, I don't think its unrealistic to show some optimis.

As for run defense, we finally moved back to the 4-3 where all our OL originally played. We put two proven pass rushing college DEs at the right side along with a proven pass rusher in Kalu, have 3 penetrating 4-3 DTs to play in the middle, and signed who ESPN claimed was the best up and coming run stuffing strong side DE in Anthony Weaver. We put Greenwood back at his original position, brought in Cowart (a pro bowl MLB who seeks out the run like J Trotter) at MLB, and saw signs of brilliance in Orr last season when he got a chance to sign. We've moved away from soft zone coverage, and therefore our DBs will be more free to run up against the run. We have a defensive coordinator who worked under Nick Saban (defensive 'guru' if you will) who they replaced with our HC! He has worked with Z Thomas, arguably the best (or one of the best) MLB in football right now. So while we haven't actually played any downs, yet, this looks good on paper, and again I see nor eason not to be optimistic about it.

So call it what you will, but I'm going to keep on whistling until I see proof that our moves haven't helped. You say you need proof before you will complement the changes, and I claim I need proof otherwise not to show confidence. To each their own I guess

marroncito
04-14-2006, 11:51 AM
As stated on this board on numerous occasions, most unbiased observers believe this type of assessment is nothing but the exclamations of homers wearing rose-colored glasses. Until the offensive line starts blocking somebody to keep Carr from having to run for his life and until the defense can actually prevent opposing RBs from running up team records, then all of this "awesome" talk is nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. The OL is still a mess and unproven and the defensive improvements are minimal at best. How you can describe this offseason as "awesome" is beyond me.
I'm optomistic about all the changes this offseason, but with a grain of salt. That said, I'm equally excited about our Oline. If we look at the evaluations, signings and changes at other positions, we can get a sense of what's happening on the Oline as well. Needs at WR, TE, DE and LB have all been met. It can be debated how much any of the changes will benifit overall, but the needs have been addressed. There will be marginal improvement at almost every position this year. So let's catalogue some of the things that have happened on the Oline.

*Pitts finally seems set at LT for now and won't move back and forth
*McKinney moves back to his natural guard position
*Flanagan is a legit, if worn down center. I like the fact that Sherman trusts him enough to bring him in. I don't think Sherman would use his juice to bring in a player he didn't think would upgrade the Texans
*Hodgdon has a chance to develop behind Flanagan. We know that he's solid depth
*Milford Brown was allowed to sign with Arizona. He's got talent, but I think Kubiak and the FO would have fought harder for him if he was in their plans. I think this shows that they know what they want to do with the Oline
*Wand might actually get a chance to start and thrive. He's been a ??? since he's been here with his time in the doghouse.
*Weary was resigned. Probably as depth, but I think it shows the evaluations and changes that have been happening.
*David Loverne was brought in. He's a big ??? for me right now. I like seeing effort guys being brought in with nice affordable contracts.
*The line is being coached in a system that's been proven to be successful in Denver. I think Kubiak and his assistants know what it takes to turn WhoDats into an effictive Oline. Since all we have right now is his past experience to evaluate Kubiak on, I'm willing to trust him with the Oline
*With all the hype following the Texans and the 1st overall pick, we haven't heard a lot about who the FO is targeting later in the draft. I take this as a good sign. The way the Texans pursued Givens, then Burleson and finally Moulds until we got a legit #2 WR makes me think that we'll get some great value out of the bottom half of the draft. I'm betting that we'll see 1 or 2 Olinemen on day 2 who might turn out to be suprising.
*Weigert's moved out to RT. I really have no idea on this one. It'll interesting to see how he does there. I imagine Kubiak has something in mind.

So that's a short list of all the things we know have happened on the Oline. I'm excited about most of them. I know there'll be some kind of improvement over last year. I don't see us playing the "just keep Carr upright" game anymore.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 12:25 PM
I'm optomistic about all the changes this offseason, but with a grain of salt. That said, I'm equally excited about our Oline. If we look at the evaluations, signings and changes at other positions, we can get a sense of what's happening on the Oline as well. Needs at WR, TE, DE and LB have all been met. It can be debated how much any of the changes will benifit overall, but the needs have been addressed. There will be marginal improvement at almost every position this year. So let's catalogue some of the things that have happened on the Oline.

*Pitts finally seems set at LT for now and won't move back and forth
*McKinney moves back to his natural guard position
*Flanagan is a legit, if worn down center. I like the fact that Sherman trusts him enough to bring him in. I don't think Sherman would use his juice to bring in a player he didn't think would upgrade the Texans
*Hodgdon has a chance to develop behind Flanagan. We know that he's solid depth
*Milford Brown was allowed to sign with Arizona. He's got talent, but I think Kubiak and the FO would have fought harder for him if he was in their plans. I think this shows that they know what they want to do with the Oline
*Wand might actually get a chance to start and thrive. He's been a ??? since he's been here with his time in the doghouse.
*Weary was resigned. Probably as depth, but I think it shows the evaluations and changes that have been happening.
*David Loverne was brought in. He's a big ??? for me right now. I like seeing effort guys being brought in with nice affordable contracts.
*The line is being coached in a system that's been proven to be successful in Denver. I think Kubiak and his assistants know what it takes to turn WhoDats into an effictive Oline. Since all we have right now is his past experience to evaluate Kubiak on, I'm willing to trust him with the Oline
*With all the hype following the Texans and the 1st overall pick, we haven't heard a lot about who the FO is targeting later in the draft. I take this as a good sign. The way the Texans pursued Givens, then Burleson and finally Moulds until we got a legit #2 WR makes me think that we'll get some great value out of the bottom half of the draft. I'm betting that we'll see 1 or 2 Olinemen on day 2 who might turn out to be suprising.
*Weigert's moved out to RT. I really have no idea on this one. It'll interesting to see how he does there. I imagine Kubiak has something in mind.

So that's a short list of all the things we know have happened on the Oline. I'm excited about most of them. I know there'll be some kind of improvement over last year. I don't see us playing the "just keep Carr upright" game anymore.

A.) We didn't have a need at TE. The TE is needed to stay in for pass protection. A pass-catching TE only makes things worse. B.) WR wasn't a need either. None of the WRs produced this year because there was no protection for Carr. Gaffney would have been just fine if he would have been given time to complete his routes. He did a good job filling in for AJ when he was out. C.) The acquisition of Cowart is way overblown. He has been with a couple of teams in the last few years and neither team was excited about him. D.) You don't address needs with mediocre talent and deem them met. E.) All I hear about the OL is a lot of talk, no substance. Flanagan is the only body they have brought in and he certainly isn't the answer to the future of this team. F.) I see a lot of disappointment for Texans fans in the future.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 12:28 PM
Great post!:redtowel:

My gawd, anything has to be better this year than a 2-14 record.
There is so much excitement in the air with our team. Just can't imagine what it would be like if Capers was still coach!

Bobby 119C

I don't know where you get this "excitement is in the air with our team" I don't feel any and the unbiased observers don't sense any either. If you put out the same team with the same coach this year, they'd probably be better than 2-14. Heck, they were 7-9 the previous year. I would rather they have kept Capers. He had the team going in the right direction. Yes, he had a bad year last year. But both Cowher and Holmgren had bad years and look where they ended up this past season.

Runner
04-14-2006, 12:31 PM
...So let's catalogue some of the things that have happened on the Oline.

1) *Pitts finally seems set at LT for now and won't move back and forth
2) *McKinney moves back to his natural guard position
3) *Flanagan is a legit, if worn down center. I like the fact that Sherman trusts him enough to bring him in. I don't think Sherman would use his juice to bring in a player he didn't think would upgrade the Texans
*Hodgdon has a chance to develop behind Flanagan. We know that he's solid depth
*Milford Brown was allowed to sign with Arizona. He's got talent, but I think Kubiak and the FO would have fought harder for him if he was in their plans. I think this shows that they know what they want to do with the Oline
4) *Wand might actually get a chance to start and thrive. He's been a ??? since he's been here with his time in the doghouse.
*Weary was resigned. Probably as depth, but I think it shows the evaluations and changes that have been happening.
*David Loverne was brought in. He's a big ??? for me right now. I like seeing effort guys being brought in with nice affordable contracts.
5a)*The line is being coached in a system that's been proven to be successful in Denver. I think Kubiak and his assistants know what it takes to turn WhoDats into an effictive Oline. Since all we have right now is his past experience to evaluate Kubiak on, I'm willing to trust him with the Oline
6)*With all the hype following the Texans and the 1st overall pick, we haven't heard a lot about who the FO is targeting later in the draft. I take this as a good sign. The way the Texans pursued Givens, then Burleson and finally Moulds until we got a legit #2 WR makes me think that we'll get some great value out of the bottom half of the draft. I'm betting that we'll see 1 or 2 Olinemen on day 2 who might turn out to be suprising.
7)*Weigert's moved out to RT. I really have no idea on this one. It'll interesting to see how he does there. I imagine Kubiak has something in mind.


5b) Well, we got the offensive coordinator from one of the traditional best OLs in the league. We picked up a probowl center who has loads of experience in blocking for both an allpro QB and probowl HB. We hired a former head coach of the Green Bay packers to be our OL coach! We moved our out of place center from the middle of the line to guard position, where he excelled in Indy. We have come out publicly saying we will address the OL in the "middle rounds" because thats where zone blockers are usually found.

1) I agree we'll see Pitts stop moving around, but he'll stick at guard. The coaches will teach him how to play a team game from that position and fix that weakness. Left guard.

2) I'm not a big McKinney fan, but I trust our coaches' evaluation far more than mine. Right guard.

3) Even an average center improves our line tremendously, especially since it also makes our guards stronger. This goes a long way to us getting a consistent pocket for Carr to step up into, which then helps our tackles. Nice move - it all fits together.

4) This coaching staff is the best thing to happen to Wand since he's been here. They recognize he has all the tools required to be a left tackle, and they are good enough coaches to teach him the techniques to make him our franchise left tackle. Surprise, surprise - the left tackle we've been looking for has been here all along.

5a&b) As has been pointed out, we have great coaching for the o-line for the first time in franchise history. Our players will be better, because the team will take advantage of their strengths and work the scheme and teach to reduce their weaknesses.

6) I think they'll draft for depth, especially at right tackle as Weigert winds down his career.

7) Weigert will be valuable at RT. He may need some tight end help at times, but we have that TE help now. The coaches will take advantage of this and devise offensive schemes make players better as a unit then they are individually. He has injury concerns, but we'll probably have Wade and a rookie as back-ups. He is a leader on the line, although that goes unnoticed here.


Wand-Pitts-Flanagan-McKinney-Weigert.

Add in some top notch coaching and our problems have been addressed nicely.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 12:35 PM
So basically what you are saying is you can't get excited about what your team does in the offseason, because you can't be 100% sure how it will turn out in the regular season. Therefore you are only allowed to show optimism once you have already witnessed success? Odd. Did anyone blame the Baltimore Ravens for being optimistic last season pre August? Nope, in fact, most people thought they were SB contenders on paper. Then again, did anyone blame the SD fans for being optimistic prior to 2004 season? Yup, but they went out and showed the changes they made were enough.

The point I'm trying to make here is that when can you be optimistic about hte possibility of your team making a big turnaround? According to you, it won't be until at least a few games into the season when I see physical proof, and then its no longer optimism, its simply "the way it is."

You mention OL blocking. Well, we got the offensive coordinator from one of the traditional best OLs in the league. We picked up a probowl center who has loads of experience in blocking for both an allpro QB and probowl HB. We hired a former head coach of the Green Bay packers to be our OL coach! We moved our out of place center from the middle of the line to guard position, where he excelled in Indy. We have come out publicly saying we will address the OL in the "middle rounds" because thats where zone blockers are usually found. Kubiak has made multiple exclamations on how DC is studying hard and returning to the basics and will be bootlegging/running a bit more. All of this looks REAL good on paper, and yes, while no games have officially been played, I don't think its unrealistic to show some optimis.

As for run defense, we finally moved back to the 4-3 where all our OL originally played. We put two proven pass rushing college DEs at the right side along with a proven pass rusher in Kalu, have 3 penetrating 4-3 DTs to play in the middle, and signed who ESPN claimed was the best up and coming run stuffing strong side DE in Anthony Weaver. We put Greenwood back at his original position, brought in Cowart (a pro bowl MLB who seeks out the run like J Trotter) at MLB, and saw signs of brilliance in Orr last season when he got a chance to sign. We've moved away from soft zone coverage, and therefore our DBs will be more free to run up against the run. We have a defensive coordinator who worked under Nick Saban (defensive 'guru' if you will) who they replaced with our HC! He has worked with Z Thomas, arguably the best (or one of the best) MLB in football right now. So while we haven't actually played any downs, yet, this looks good on paper, and again I see nor eason not to be optimistic about it.

So call it what you will, but I'm going to keep on whistling until I see proof that our moves haven't helped. You say you need proof before you will complement the changes, and I claim I need proof otherwise not to show confidence. To each their own I guess

A.) No, I can't get excited about the team because what they did wasn't much. I don't see much change at all, just a lot of mediocre players coming in. What's there to be excited about that? B.) Coming off a 2-14 season, there isn't much room for optimism until there are some real, actual turnarounds that are seen on the field. Until then, all you have is a 2-14 team with more mediocre players added. C.) The defense hasn't improved much. You talk like Weaver and Cowart are going to help this defense. Neither one of them can pressure the passer and Cowart has been flowing from team to team -- nobody really wanted him. D.) The head coach, as well as most of his coaching staff, is green as grass. E.) People who are positive about this team reminds me of the kid who found manure in his stocking on Christmas. When he saw it, he got all excited and said, "Where there's manure, there's gotta be a pony!" Well, if you want to get excited about manure, that's fine. To me, manure is manure. That's all you got. There are uses for manure, but I wouldn't get all excited about it.

Hardcore Texan
04-14-2006, 12:47 PM
A.) We didn't have a need at TE. The TE is needed to stay in for pass protection. A pass-catching TE only makes things worse. B.) WR wasn't a need either. None of the WRs produced this year because there was no protection for Carr. Gaffney would have been just fine if he would have been given time to complete his routes. He did a good job filling in for AJ when he was out. C.) The acquisition of Cowart is way overblown. He has been with a couple of teams in the last few years and neither team was excited about him. D.) You don't address needs with mediocre talent and deem them met. E.) All I hear about the OL is a lot of talk, no substance. Flanagan is the only body they have brought in and he certainly isn't the answer to the future of this team. F.) I see a lot of disappointment for Texans fans in the future.


If bringing in Flaningan and Sherman to coach the OLine, and McKinney moving back to a position he had success at is not considered improvement, then what the hell is it? It is better than last years patchwork.

I wouldn't go so far to say the OLine is the best it can be, but we still have camp, preseason, oh and that little thing called the draft to get better. So there is reason to be excited and optimistic for some, no need to knock them for it.

I agree with some of what your saying, we do need better protection, and maybe just maybe some of the "mediocre talent" willl be an upgrade at some postions.

Mr. White
04-14-2006, 12:52 PM
I don't feel any and the unbiased observers don't sense any either.

Could you possibly be referring to yourself?

If you put out the same team with the same coach this year, they'd probably be better than 2-14. Heck, they were 7-9 the previous year. I would rather they have kept Capers. He had the team going in the right direction. Yes, he had a bad year last year. But both Cowher and Holmgren had bad years and look where they ended up this past season.

I don't think Cowher or Holmgren ever won as few as 2 games as HC's. Capers was great as a DC but was horrible as an HC.

The only success that he had (in Carolina) was due to a better expansion draft pool at that time. Maybe if he was involved in the defense, then the team would've been better. 7 wins to 2 wins is hardly a step in the right direction.

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 12:55 PM
A.) No, I can't get excited about the team because what they did wasn't much. I don't see much change at all, just a lot of mediocre players coming in. What's there to be excited about that? B.) Coming off a 2-14 season, there isn't much room for optimism until there are some real, actual turnarounds that are seen on the field. Until then, all you have is a 2-14 team with more mediocre players added. C.) The defense hasn't improved much. You talk like Weaver and Cowart are going to help this defense. Neither one of them can pressure the passer and Cowart has been flowing from team to team -- nobody really wanted him. D.) The head coach, as well as most of his coaching staff, is green as grass. E.) People who are positive about this team reminds me of the kid who found manure in his stocking on Christmas. When he saw it, he got all excited and said, "Where there's manure, there's gotta be a pony!" Well, if you want to get excited about manure, that's fine. To me, manure is manure. That's all you got. There are uses for manure, but I wouldn't get all excited about it.

A) Again, you say you need results to feel optimistic, I say I need to see failure to be pessimistic. No point in arguing this ad libtum

B) See point A

C) Neither Weaver or Cowart were brought in to rush the passer. Weaver is a strong side run stopping DE. Cowart is a run stuffing MLB (see J Trotter comment earlier). Only rarely will they be rushing all out at the passer. We have Peek, Babin, Kalu, Payne, Smith, TJ, a safety, and potentially OLB to rush the paser. This is not surprising or disapointing, as this is how many successful 4-3s are run

D) True GK is a first time HC. So? Every time a new coach gets a shot he's going to immediately suck? He has been successful everywhere he's gone. his assistant coach is a proven winner in Sherman. We have fresh, new ideas. I see this as a plus. This is also why he has brought in so many veteran players. If our new guys don't want to listen 100% to the new coaches, the veteran players will serve as nice assistants

E) People as negative as you remind of the kid who gets the computer, car, and television for christmas and asks "wheres the pony?" You can keep waiting for some arbitrary signing that iwll make you happy (although at this point I can't imagine what you'd want) or you can open your eyes and see how many good things you've already opened

Ibar_Harry
04-14-2006, 12:57 PM
If bringing in Flaningan and Sherman to coach the OLine, and McKinney moving back to a position he had success at is not considered improvement, then what the hell is it? It is better than last years patchwork.

I wouldn't go so far to say the OLine is the best it can be, but we still have camp, preseason, oh and that little thing called the draft to get better. So there is reason to be excited and optimistic for some, no need to knock them for it.

I agree with some of what your saying, we do need better protection, and maybe just maybe some of the "mediocre talent" willl be an upgrade at some postions.

Do not under estimate Sherman as an Offensive line coach along with the new offensive system. Our O-line players were very badly coached and the offensive system was an abomination. We have to be at least 70% better at this point in my estimation.

Coaching, coaching, and coaching are the reasons this team as a whole is a lot better than last years team even if we did not pick up any players. In reality, however, you can already see the effects of their coaching. We have filled many holes, and is some cases, dramatically improved some of our positions like WR.

Once, again, do not under estimate the coaching factor. Year after year you see many of the same coaches with teams in the playoffs and SB's. There is a reason. Its called salary cap. The best coaches get it done.

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 01:09 PM
One thing thats curious to me, is that Bobo advocates for Capers to stay, but then claims we haven't changed enough. I guarantee you if Capers had stayed, we would have A) Made even less changes and B) Performed even worse than last

Mr. White
04-14-2006, 01:10 PM
Just a Titans fan trying to :stirpot:

Runner
04-14-2006, 01:13 PM
One thing thats curious to me, is that Bobo advocates for Capers to stay, but then claims we haven't changed enough. I guarantee you if Capers had stayed, we would have A) Made even less changes and B) Performed even worse than last

When a person chooses to join the "Debate with a Bobo Hour", that poster is feeding a troll who is in fact a Titans fan. This has been documented various times on these boards.

This topic was going good places as a football discussion before it got sidetracked as well. That's too bad, but it happens.

TheOgre
04-14-2006, 01:21 PM
We haven't see the end of the off-season yet, but unless we see some significant additions to our pass-rush and secondary, I still think we will have some pass defense issues. I think adding Weaver and Cowart along with switching to the 4-3, will improve our run defense immensely though.

As for our offense, I still have concerns about the O-line positions. We should be improved, but I am not content.

Runner
04-14-2006, 01:25 PM
As for our offense, I still have concerns about the O-line positions. We should be improved, but I am not content.

If you skip up past some of the extraneous posts you can see what I think of the o-line. You may have missed it.

Hardcore Texan
04-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Do not under estimate Sherman as an Offensive line coach along with the new offensive system. Our O-line players were very badly coached and the offensive system was an abomination. We have to be at least 70% better at this point in my estimation.

Coaching, coaching, and coaching are the reasons this team as a whole is a lot better than last years team even if we did not pick up any players. In reality, however, you can already see the effects of their coaching. We have filled many holes, and is some cases, dramatically improved some of our positions like WR.

Once, again, do not under estimate the coaching factor. Year after year you see many of the same coaches with teams in the playoffs and SB's. There is a reason. Its called salary cap. The best coaches get it done.


I agree a 100%. I just didn't put my words together too well in my original post, I got interupted as I am at work. I am excited about this season, I have been advocating trusting the new staff this entire offseason. And also agree or O-line is going to be drastically improved, but there is still more room for improvment. I just didn't convey that too well the first time. And my reference to mediocre talent was responding to Bobo's comment about Cowart at MLB.

Anyway, good post, you summed up my viewpoint also.

swtbound07
04-14-2006, 02:04 PM
I've just got to say wow. This has been one helluva ride for me, and hopefully its not ending here. I mean, this has been the best offseason I've ever experienced as a Texans fan.

It all started with that SF 49ers game. I don't like to be a "cheer for the loss" kind of guy, but in this case, I was.
Next came the Rosebowl. VY, Bush, Leinart, Lendale were all doing their best to raise their draft stock. After the game, I realized how amazing our draft position was.

Then the Free Agents/Trade. The Weaver signing would have been enough (based on my old expectations) but then we go out and get Putzier, Flannagan, Moulds, Cowart, and Kalu.

The pro days were next on the agenda, and again, our draft position was only made more valuable.

Now we've got articles and stories on the revamped team. 30th ranked run defense? 4-3 + Weaver + Cowart = fixed! (hopefully). 30th ranked offense? Kubiak + Cook + Moulds + Putzier + Flannagan + Motivating Carr = fixed!

And lastly, with the players we've brought in for interviews, how can anyone not be excited. The three players we're negotiating with: Bush, Williams, Young. All 3 could be superstars in the NFL if they live up to their hype.

Here it is in summary form: We tank the 49ers, the rosebowl showcased some 1st round talent, we had countless holes on both sides of the ball that we actually filled with decent players, the coaches and players express confidence in their new schemes, and the worst player we will bring in on April 29th could be a rookie probowler. Awesome!

i've said this before, and maybe its harsh on my part, but if you ever cheer for the texans to lose a game for the sake of a draft pick you and I got nothing to say to each other. Sickening

Jimpster
04-14-2006, 02:05 PM
I agree, it's been a hell of a off season so far. Seems like the Texans have acquired some really good talent in the FA market. The draft is going to be icing on the cake. Like most of the posters here, I can't wait for the regular season to begin.

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 02:28 PM
i've said this before, and maybe its harsh on my part, but if you ever cheer for the texans to lose a game for the sake of a draft pick you and I got nothing to say to each other. Sickening

Basically, I want what is best for the team. The coaches refused to let the projects play (D. Ragone?? V Morency?? Armstrong??) and insisted on playing their starters. As the season had been going to badly, there was nothing we could have gained from that win. As such, I really don't see why its such a terrible crime to cheer for what has turned out to be an amazing draft position

Texans Horror
04-14-2006, 03:03 PM
IMO, the run blocking is cleaning itself up. We were pretty average at it last year, and DD was a pretty average back. To a certain extent, I expect that Reggie Bush will make the line better.

I am more concerned about the pass blocking because there are a lot more question marks there. Will Wand be able to cement his technique enough to take up the position? Will Pitts be willing to support the left side of the line as a guard rather than a left tackle? (Pitts was supported throughout the 2005 season when he played tackle, but did little to support Wand in the 2004 season - though this could have been coaching schemes.) Will Flanigan be able to stuff the center of the line? David is a pocket quarterback. He needs the front, middle of the line to stay put and give him time. Will McKinney and Weigert be able to step up their play? IMO, the right side has had more problems than the left.

Of course, the biggest question I have is a coaching question. I know Kubiak has one way of coaching an offense. Does Sherman see eye-to-eye with him about how the line should gel? I suspect, based on comments he made when he came board (that he was here to help out Kubes and do whatever was needed), that Sherman will give Kubes the line. But if they aren't on the same page, this could raise serious issues coming out of the starting gate, and with games against Indy and Philly, we need to be strong early.

tsip
04-14-2006, 04:50 PM
A.) We didn't have a need at TE. The TE is needed to stay in for pass protection. A pass-catching TE only makes things worse. B.) WR wasn't a need either. None of the WRs produced this year because there was no protection for Carr. Gaffney would have been just fine if he would have been given time to complete his routes. He did a good job filling in for AJ when he was out. C.) The acquisition of Cowart is way overblown. He has been with a couple of teams in the last few years and neither team was excited about him. D.) You don't address needs with mediocre talent and deem them met. E.) All I hear about the OL is a lot of talk, no substance. Flanagan is the only body they have brought in and he certainly isn't the answer to the future of this team. F.) I see a lot of disappointment for Texans fans in the future.

Bobo, you need to back up and think about what you are saying! First, you chastize other posters for 'seeing the future,' then you do the same thing--only difference is postive vs negative.

One of my biggest knocks against Capers was the way he handled change-sometimes he changed things that didn't need change, other times he stuck with things that did. For example, he changed the OL 'scheme' blocking after our 2nd year when the line had drastically reduced the sack total, and we had no one experienced in that new scheme. He kept our WR corp intact, despite bringing in other WRs that out performed them.

Bottom line? This team is not standing pat and--in the minds of most posters--has correctly identified the problem areas. And, while everything can not be 'fixed overnight,' at least the team is trying to upgrade everywhere that needs it. No, not every upgrade is to an 'all-pro,' but it doesn't need to be for the team IMO to show vast improvement. IMO, the biggest improvement comes for this team in new "Coaching Philosophies,' especially 'COACHING TO WIN' instead of ' coaching not to lose.'

So,no, we don't know what will happen this season but good or bad, it won't be because changes weren't made...:yahoo:

DenverBorn
04-14-2006, 05:44 PM
As stated on this board on numerous occasions, most unbiased observers believe this type of assessment is nothing but the exclamations of homers wearing rose-colored glasses. Until the offensive line starts blocking somebody to keep Carr from having to run for his life and until the defense can actually prevent opposing RBs from running up team records, then all of this "awesome" talk is nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. The OL is still a mess and unproven and the defensive improvements are minimal at best. How you can describe this offseason as "awesome" is beyond me.

I absolutely agree. The OL has not been improved, neither has the defensive backfield. I'd put most of the FA signings in the Greenwood/Wade/Bruener category. Average at best. Carr will be Carr, the OL will be the OL - the only thing that encourages me at all is the switch to the 4-3.

TexansLucky13
04-14-2006, 05:59 PM
I absolutely agree. The OL has not been improved, neither has the defensive backfield. I'd put most of the FA signings in the Greenwood/Wade/Bruener category. Average at best. Carr will be Carr, the OL will be the OL - the only thing that encourages me at all is the switch to the 4-3.

You shouldn't look at Bobo's post as anything but annoying. He is continually proving that he is nothing but a troll. Did you even notice the little brown football next to his name that shows his misconduct? All he wants to do is stir trouble because he thought Capers was Jesus reincarnated. But it seems now that his Titan love has finally revealed itself. Go to Florida and watch your beloved Capers. Good riddance.

I agree with most of the original post, and I think no matter what happens on April 29th, we have ourselves an awesome '06-'07 season.

:texflag:

dalemurphy
04-14-2006, 06:06 PM
I absolutely agree. The OL has not been improved, neither has the defensive backfield. I'd put most of the FA signings in the Greenwood/Wade/Bruener category. Average at best. Carr will be Carr, the OL will be the OL - the only thing that encourages me at all is the switch to the 4-3.


Well, a probowl center has been added to the roster. Mckinney has been moved to guard and two guards who started on other teams (Loeverne, Carolina guy) have been added. Mike Sherman has been brought in to help with the line... The draft is still to come and we have 5 of the first 98 picks and you're criticizing the offseason moves in regards to the OLine?!

swtbound07
04-14-2006, 06:24 PM
Basically, I want what is best for the team. The coaches refused to let the projects play (D. Ragone?? V Morency?? Armstrong??) and insisted on playing their starters. As the season had been going to badly, there was nothing we could have gained from that win. As such, I really don't see why its such a terrible crime to cheer for what has turned out to be an amazing draft position


Yes there is. They would have gained a win. Yes, it is a terrible crime in my eyes to root for your team to lose to get a better shot at a freaking PROSPECT??? You only get to see the Texans play 16 regular season games a year. 16. Thats it. Its not like the number 4 pick or whatever would have destined us for failure as a franchise. By your logic, you would have been okay with them throwing that last game to get a pet project??? How about this....what happens when you fall in love with adrian peterson next year? Are you willing to cheer against the Texans SIXTEEN times just so they can draft your boy?? If you for one second of any game for any reason are cheering against your favorite team then like I said, there is nothing I can say to you...Its just a worthless thing to do IMO. Maybe Im alone on this one...

Erratic Assassin
04-14-2006, 06:24 PM
Year after year you see many of the same coaches with teams in the playoffs and SB's. There is a reason. Its called salary cap. The best coaches get it done.

That might say more about the GMs than the coaches. You can give one housewife $300.00 and she can come home with a cart full of groceries because she's a wise shopper. You can give another housewife $300.00 and she'll overpay for everything and waste it on imported gourmet tapwater and have nothing to show for it.

gtexan02
04-14-2006, 08:46 PM
Yes there is. They would have gained a win. Yes, it is a terrible crime in my eyes to root for your team to lose to get a better shot at a freaking PROSPECT??? You only get to see the Texans play 16 regular season games a year. 16. Thats it. Its not like the number 4 pick or whatever would have destined us for failure as a franchise. By your logic, you would have been okay with them throwing that last game to get a pet project??? How about this....what happens when you fall in love with adrian peterson next year? Are you willing to cheer against the Texans SIXTEEN times just so they can draft your boy?? If you for one second of any game for any reason are cheering against your favorite team then like I said, there is nothing I can say to you...Its just a worthless thing to do IMO. Maybe Im alone on this one...


I have no idea what you are trying to get at here. Pet project? You mean like, i would have cheared them to lose if they could each get a puppy or somthing? How does that have anything to do with anything. And what is this about cheering for a loss 16 times to get someone else? No, you are being ignorant and not paying attention to what I said. I cheer for whats best for the team. Up until week 17 (yes, this includes week 16) I wanted us to win simply for confidence building. By week 17 I knew that it wouldn't matter. A one game winning streak against a terrible team would have meant nothing for our confidence. In fact, I think they probably were more confident after losing, knowing they had in fact won the Bush bowl. So don't over exagerate and get yourself into a frenzy. I never said I'd cheer against us for 16 games in a row. In fact, I never said I'd cheer for a loss more than 1 game, the last game, against a terrible team that would have meant nothing. If we were sitting at #4 right now we would be in a completely different position. As it stands, we have all the cards, and personally, it was worth the ONE loss

Bobo
04-14-2006, 09:12 PM
I have no idea what you are trying to get at here. Pet project? You mean like, i would have cheared them to lose if they could each get a puppy or somthing? How does that have anything to do with anything. And what is this about cheering for a loss 16 times to get someone else? No, you are being ignorant and not paying attention to what I said. I cheer for whats best for the team. Up until week 17 (yes, this includes week 16) I wanted us to win simply for confidence building. By week 17 I knew that it wouldn't matter. A one game winning streak against a terrible team would have meant nothing for our confidence. In fact, I think they probably were more confident after losing, knowing they had in fact won the Bush bowl. So don't over exagerate and get yourself into a frenzy. I never said I'd cheer against us for 16 games in a row. In fact, I never said I'd cheer for a loss more than 1 game, the last game, against a terrible team that would have meant nothing. If we were sitting at #4 right now we would be in a completely different position. As it stands, we have all the cards, and personally, it was worth the ONE loss

Bottom line: By definition, if you root for a team to lose, you are NOT a fan of that team. Case closed.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 09:14 PM
You shouldn't look at Bobo's post as anything but annoying. He is continually proving that he is nothing but a troll. Did you even notice the little brown football next to his name that shows his misconduct? All he wants to do is stir trouble because he thought Capers was Jesus reincarnated. But it seems now that his Titan love has finally revealed itself. Go to Florida and watch your beloved Capers. Good riddance.

I agree with most of the original post, and I think no matter what happens on April 29th, we have ourselves an awesome '06-'07 season.

:texflag:

I am continually proving that I am a realist and not a cheerleader. In the end, you know I will be more correct than 90 percent of the posters here because they are in denial.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 09:15 PM
I agree, it's been a hell of a off season so far. Seems like the Texans have acquired some really good talent in the FA market. The draft is going to be icing on the cake. Like most of the posters here, I can't wait for the regular season to begin.

Reality check: The "talent" they acquired is mediocre by all standards.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 10:29 PM
Well, a probowl center has been added to the roster. Mckinney has been moved to guard and two guards who started on other teams (Loeverne, Carolina guy) have been added. Mike Sherman has been brought in to help with the line... The draft is still to come and we have 5 of the first 98 picks and you're criticizing the offseason moves in regards to the OLine?!

Umm, try a Pro Bowl alternate who only played three games in 2004 due to patella tendinitis in his left knee that required season-ending surgery and missed two games last year because of a sports hernia (credit: Wisconsin State Journal). But I am sure that as this injury-prone "Pro Bowler" is only 32 years old and is basically just a rookie since he's only in 11th year in the NFL and is getting younger and younger, the picture is only getting rosier and rosier for this OL. Yeah, right. Another record year in sacks allowed and a bunch of single-game rushing records against this defense looks more like it.

TexansLucky13
04-14-2006, 11:10 PM
Yes there is. They would have gained a win. Yes, it is a terrible crime in my eyes to root for your team to lose to get a better shot at a freaking PROSPECT??? You only get to see the Texans play 16 regular season games a year. 16. Thats it. Its not like the number 4 pick or whatever would have destined us for failure as a franchise. By your logic, you would have been okay with them throwing that last game to get a pet project??? How about this....what happens when you fall in love with adrian peterson next year? Are you willing to cheer against the Texans SIXTEEN times just so they can draft your boy?? If you for one second of any game for any reason are cheering against your favorite team then like I said, there is nothing I can say to you...Its just a worthless thing to do IMO. Maybe Im alone on this one...

You aren't really alone. The more naive "hardcore" fans would say that if you ever rooted against the team, that you are not a true fan. IMO the 49ers game was just a means to an end... it was the perfect end to a most unfortunate season. The game itself was terrible. The players even looked like they were trying to lose it. Maybe the draft hype got into everyones head. Personally I would not throw a game for a draft pick, nor support it. So although I somewhat agree with you... I just think its a moot point.

Bottom line: By definition, if you root for a team to lose, you are NOT a fan of that team. Case closed.

It wasn't but three weeks ago you were explaining about how "you will not cheer for the Texans next year, because you don't agree with the management changes." What kind of a fan are you? You try to explain this by stating that "you are a fan of the NFL, but not of a specific team". What a crock of bull. How can you even begin to criticize someone of not being a fan when all you do is complain about Kubiak and the "failure" to address the problem with the O-line. Don't get me wrong... we still have O-line problems. But I wont let you get away with sitting there and claiming that nothing has been done and looked into. The 2nd and possibly the 3rd pick in the draft will be designed for the O-line. So please, shut it.

There are only two explanations for why you are so stubborn.

1) You idolize Dom Capers. Get over it. He was here to build the expansion Texans, and he did it. He was NOT a long-term coach. His offense was far too simplistic (giving David Carr only two audible options, and no power whatsoever). His defense left our LB'ers confused and ineffective.

2) You are a Titans troll. Everyone knows that you have an account on the Titans forum and you post regularly. Whats the difference between your posts on here and on there? You don't stir up trouble on there. All you do on here is cause trouble. Stop being a troll, its bad for your heart.

I bite my finger at you.

Bobo
04-14-2006, 11:58 PM
It wasn't but three weeks ago you were explaining about how "you will not cheer for the Texans next year, because you don't agree with the management changes." What kind of a fan are you? You try to explain this by stating that "you are a fan of the NFL, but not of a specific team". What a crock of bull. How can you even begin to criticize someone of not being a fan when all you do is complain about Kubiak and the "failure" to address the problem with the O-line. Don't get me wrong... we still have O-line problems. But I wont let you get away with sitting there and claiming that nothing has been done and looked into. The 2nd and possibly the 3rd pick in the draft will be designed for the O-line. So please, shut it.

There are only two explanations for why you are so stubborn.

1) You idolize Dom Capers. Get over it. He was here to build the expansion Texans, and he did it. He was NOT a long-term coach. His offense was far too simplistic (giving David Carr only two audible options, and no power whatsoever). His defense left our LB'ers confused and ineffective.

2) You are a Titans troll. Everyone knows that you have an account on the Titans forum and you post regularly. Whats the difference between your posts on here and on there? You don't stir up trouble on there. All you do on here is cause trouble. Stop being a troll, its bad for your heart.

I bite my finger at you.

A.) Fact is, by definition, if you root against a team you are NOT a fan of that team. Period. I have freely said that the Texans have lost me as a fan, though I will not root against them. However, you claim folks who root against the Texans are still fans? Gimme a break. That's not hardcore. That's ridiculous. B.) This team needs a lot more help than just a second or third pick for that OL. If you really believe that, then you have either swallowed the company line or you aren't being realistic. This team is in real, real trouble in the OL and they need to throw a good portion of their draft at it -- and not just middle round picks. C.) I have been called a liberal Democrat by Republicans, a conservative Republican by Democrats, and now a Titan troll by you. Kinda funny, since I never really cared for the Titans when they were in Houston to begin with. Using your logic, Andre Johnson is related to the late LBJ since they both have/had the same last names. Did you ever think that there might be a couple of folks who may be using the same name on the Internet? Nah, impossible -- just like it's impossible that the word "braintrust" is a misnomer when used in the same sentence with the Houston Texans. I dismiss you with a simple wave of my hand.

tulexan
04-15-2006, 12:08 AM
You can still be a fan and root against the team. Different fans have different goals. Personally, finishing 3-13 was no better than finishing 2-14. Capers would still lose his job, the season would still be a disaster, and we would still be a laughing stock. Getting that last win against an equally bad team would not give us momentum to be a playoff contender next year. We were going to get rid of a bunch of players, get a new scheme, and get a new coach.

You had short term goals of winning that week, I had long term goals of getting potentially one of the best college prospects ever. I wanted what I felt was best for the Texans in the long run, you wanted a win to close the season.

TexansLucky13
04-15-2006, 12:11 AM
I dismiss you with a simple wave of my hand.

You would. And you can. But nothing changes.

Tell me something, braintrust. It's nothing new that the O-line is a problem. It's been a problem since the inaugural season. Who "should have" taken care of this issue? Your beloved Capers. Why didn't he get it fixed? He tried. But it was him that was the problem. It was his high school offense that led us into the ground last year. He thought we needed a huge run-blocker like Todd Wade. He thought it would fix the problem. He was wrong. He was wrong multiple times. What does this mean? It means he tried, and failed. He didn't know how to fix it, and we all know that. So stop being so bias. Wake up and smell the coffee... he didn't cut it. And don't give me that "he was trying to gel the O-line together for the long term" junk. Only a Dom Capers homer would think such a thing. Like you.

Fact is, by definition, a fan is a person who is (by Websters definition):

An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.

I did not root for them to lose, but for those who did, I defend you (to an extent). I would say that we are most fortunate to have the 1st pick in this draft. What is the difference between a 3-13 season and a 2-14 season? Nothing except for the draft pick. So logic tells us that losing the game was beneficial. Did I root for us to lose? No. Would I cast you down as a sinner if you did want us to lose the 49ers game? No. It was just a means to an end. We are better for it. I am enthusiastic about this draft and I am ardently devoted to watching us have a winning season soon, due to the sacrifice of the 49ers game.

Bobo, I have asked you repeatedly in the past months to EXPLAIN to me what Kubiak could have done in the FA to help the O-line. And you REPEATEDLY avoid it. The fact is your conduct is very troll-like. If you do not want to be branded a troll (which you have), or as a Titans troll (which you may or may not be), then stop acting and talking foolish.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 12:32 AM
You would. And you can. But nothing changes.

Tell me something, braintrust. It's nothing new that the O-line is a problem. It's been a problem since the inaugural season. Who "should have" taken care of this issue? Your beloved Capers. Why didn't he get it fixed? He tried. But it was him that was the problem. It was his high school offense that led us into the ground last year. He thought we needed a huge run-blocker like Todd Wade. He thought it would fix the problem. He was wrong. He was wrong multiple times. What does this mean? It means he tried, and failed. He didn't know how to fix it, and we all know that. So stop being so bias. Wake up and smell the coffee... he didn't cut it. And don't give me that "he was trying to gel the O-line together for the long term" junk. Only a Dom Capers homer would think such a thing. Like you.

Fact is, by definition, a fan is a person who is (by Websters definition):

An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.

I did not root for them to lose, but for those who did, I defend you (to an extent). I would say that we are most fortunate to have the 1st pick in this draft. What is the difference between a 3-13 season and a 2-14 season? Nothing except for the draft pick. So logic tells us that losing the game was beneficial. Did I root for us to lose? No. Would I cast you down as a sinner if you did want us to lose the 49ers game? No. It was just a means to an end. We are better for it. I am enthusiastic about this draft and I am ardently devoted to watching us have a winning season soon, due to the sacrifice of the 49ers game.

Bobo, I have asked you repeatedly in the past months to EXPLAIN to me what Kubiak could have done in the FA to help the O-line. And you REPEATED avoid it. The fact is your conduct is very troll-like. If you do not want to be branded a troll (which you have), or as a Titans troll (which you may or may not be), then stop acting and talking foolish.

A.) Capers was sticking with the folks he had, hoping they would gel together. You have to give them time to come together -- you can't just mix everything up whenever something doesn't go right. They needed some time. Obviously, they never did gel, but Capers went about doing what he should have by giving them time. Then again, I am amused by how "Texans fans" were yelling and screaming about how Capers needed to change the OL around and then when he did, the same folks yelled about how he was moving people "out of their natural positions." B.) You, like everybody else who bashes Capers, refuse to even look at how Capers led this team from its infancy to within one game of .500 in just three years. Your blasting of him is just as unwarranted as it would have been if it was directed at Holmgren and Cowher when they had bad years with their respective teams. To call Capers a failure is to call Cowher and Holmgren failures when they had bad years. C.) You aren't an enthusiast if you are rooting for a team to lose. That's a simple fact. For you to argue otherwise flies against common sense. D.) I have said many times that FA will not help a team anywhere when all you do is pick up folks nobody else wants -- which is the case in most FA acquisitions. E.) I only post here once a day every three or four days for the most part. Trolls get on the message board every day and purposely write things to stir people up and then are constantly on the board seeing if they succeeded. I could care less about that. F.) I am definitely not the only person to say these things about the Texans offseason. There are a lot of people who have said the same thing. Some of those folks on KILT have basically said the Texans offseason has been pretty mediocre. G.) Why do you think I care what people call me? I personally think it's kind of funny when folks call me a Titans fan when I never even cared for them when they were in Houston. I have found in the normal course of life that there are lots of people who try to stereotype others so they can within their mind's eye put them in a little box and believe that they have them all figured out so they won't have to deal with the truth they present. Hence, the expression, "Oh, he's just a liberal Democrat" or "Oh, he's just a conservative Republican" which allows that person to dismiss everything the person says, no matter how true it is. So now you can see how amused I am when people try to call me a Titans troll. It only shows me that folks like you are trying to find a way to deny the facts I am serving up.

TexansLucky13
04-15-2006, 12:48 AM
A.) Capers was sticking with the folks he had, hoping they would gel together. You have to give them time to come together -- you can't just mix everything up whenever something doesn't go right. They needed some time. Obviously, they never did gel, but Capers went about doing what he should have by giving them time. Then again, I am amused by how "Texans fans" were yelling and screaming about how Capers needed to change the OL around and then when he did, the same folks yelled about how he was moving people "out of their natural positions." B.) You, like everybody else who bashes Capers, refuse to even look at how Capers led this team from its infancy to within one game of .500 in just three years. Your blasting of him is just as unwarranted as it would have been if it was directed at Holmgren and Cowher when they had bad years with their respective teams. To call Capers a failure is to call Cowher and Holmgren failures when they had bad years. C.) You aren't an enthusiast if you are rooting for a team to lose. That's a simple fact. For you to argue otherwise flies against common sense. D.) I have said many times that FA will not help a team anywhere when all you do is pick up folks nobody else wants -- which is the case in most FA acquisitions. E.) I only post here once a day every three or four days for the most part. Trolls get on the message board every day and purposely write things to stir people up and then are constantly on the board seeing if they succeeded. I could care less about that. F.) I am definitely not the only person to say these things about the Texans offseason. There are a lot of people who have said the same thing. Some of those folks on KILT have basically said the Texans offseason has been pretty mediocre. G.) Why do you think I care what people call me? I personally think it's kind of funny when folks call me a Titans fan when I never even cared for them when they were in Houston. I have found in the normal course of life that there are lots of people who try to stereotype others so they can within their mind's eye put them in a little box and believe that they have them all figured out so they won't have to deal with the truth they present. Hence, the expression, "Oh, he's just a liberal Democrat" or "Oh, he's just a conservative Republican" which allows that person to dismiss everything the person says, no matter how true it is. So now you can see how amused I am when people try to call me a Titans troll. It only shows me that folks like you are trying to find a way to deny the facts I am serving up.

The only problem, gramps, is that you arent serving up facts. Lets look at this.

A) If Capers was giving the line time to "gel", why did he change it? And if you say that he gave into public pressure.... well, thats a different story. He didn't understand the O-line, plain and simple. That's a fact.

B) You, like everyone else who has short term memory loss, amuse me. Do you not remember anything I have EVER said to you? I told you that I liked Capers. Truth be told, I REALLY liked Capers. I hated to see him get the shaft, I truely did. Don't even bring Cowhers and Holmgren up. They both had winning seasons in their history before they had their "bad years" of a record 6-10. Holmgren even had a SB ring before then! So stop comparing them. Capers is an expansion coach. He did it for the Panthers and he did it for us. I have NEVER said that he didnt do a good job, and if you claim that I ever have said that, you are an out-right liar.

C) You, personally, are not an enthusiast if you would change your allegiance to the Texans just because your god Capers got the shaft.

D) Hmm. If the FA wouldn't help the O-line, how can you possibly say that Kubiak hasnt done enough to help it? Did you want him to trade for an OT? Please clarify this, because you make no sense.

E) You post on here enough to be noticed, and thats all that counts.

F,G) How come in section G you state that peoples opinions are pointless but in section F you explain the opinions of the KILT guys matter for some reason? Everyone has opinions. In my opinion you are bummed because you have no real facts to back up your bias against Kubiak. Unless I am mistaken... you haven't "served up" anything other than a hot plate of bull dung (bias opinions). Move to Florida, homer.

Good night.

gtexan02
04-15-2006, 01:36 AM
E.) I only post here once a day every three or four days for the most part. Trolls get on the message board every day and purposely write things to stir people up and then are constantly on the board seeing if they succeeded. I could care less about that.

Lets see, today you've posted 18 times in last 24 hours
And you haven't posted less than 6 times per day for seemingly weeks if you check your post history. Now, I don't think you're trolling however. In fact, its nice to have someone who completely disagrees with you and vice versa so the board doesnt get too one dimensional.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 02:53 AM
Lets see, today you've posted 18 times in last 24 hours
And you haven't posted less than 6 times per day for seemingly weeks if you check your post history. Now, I don't think you're trolling however. In fact, its nice to have someone who completely disagrees with you and vice versa so the board doesnt get too one dimensional.

Well, make that 19. Of course, that has nothing to do with the fact that I post several times a day, then don't post for several days, then post a few times after that. It's not contradictory at all. If you are going to do a history, you might want to do a more thorough one.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:16 AM
The only problem, gramps, is that you arent serving up facts. Lets look at this.

A) If Capers was giving the line time to "gel", why did he change it? And if you say that he gave into public pressure.... well, thats a different story. He didn't understand the O-line, plain and simple. That's a fact.

B) You, like everyone else who has short term memory loss, amuse me. Do you not remember anything I have EVER said to you? I told you that I liked Capers. Truth be told, I REALLY liked Capers. I hated to see him get the shaft, I truely did. Don't even bring Cowhers and Holmgren up. They both had winning seasons in their history before they had their "bad years" of a record 6-10. Holmgren even had a SB ring before then! So stop comparing them. Capers is an expansion coach. He did it for the Panthers and he did it for us. I have NEVER said that he didnt do a good job, and if you claim that I ever have said that, you are an out-right liar.

C) You, personally, are not an enthusiast if you would change your allegiance to the Texans just because your god Capers got the shaft.

D) Hmm. If the FA wouldn't help the O-line, how can you possibly say that Kubiak hasnt done enough to help it? Did you want him to trade for an OT? Please clarify this, because you make no sense.

E) You post on here enough to be noticed, and thats all that counts.

F,G) How come in section G you state that peoples opinions are pointless but in section F you explain the opinions of the KILT guys matter for some reason? Everyone has opinions. In my opinion you are bummed because you have no real facts to back up your bias against Kubiak. Unless I am mistaken... you haven't "served up" anything other than a hot plate of bull dung (bias opinions). Move to Florida, homer.

Good night.

A.) Capers made the most of what he had out of a bunch of rag tag NFL rejects and rookies. That's easy to understand. B.) I really don't keep track of what you do or do not say. I honestly don't know you from the man in the moon. As far as Holmgren and Cowher go, Capers accomplished much more than they did when you take into account the fact that Capers took on a team from its inception and had absolutely nothing to work with while Cowher and Holmgren both had a nucleus when they took over. C.) I was an enthusiast of the Texans bigtime until they began to prove to me they weren't really interested in solving the team's needs and gave Capers the shaft. I am not one for giving a team my loyalty when they reward a good coach by doing what they did to him. I am no longer a Texans enthusiast and have said that upfront. But don't say these people who root for the team to lose and don't show up for games after they bought tickets for the games are "enthusiasts" either. The fact that I don't root for the team to lose and show up at the contests proves that I am more of an "enthusiast" than these "so-called fans" are. So where does that put them? D.) I said Kubiak's FA acquisitions are not going to help the team and that they are overblown. FA acquisitions are not the way to go with a young team since most of those FAs will be just another group of folks nobody wants or cares about. I have said many times that the draft is the only real way to fix the OL. E.) I post here for the same reason you do. F.) If you would read what I wrote, I said I am not the only person to say what I am saying about the Texans and their offseason moves and used the KILT folks as an example. I could have used a lot of other examples. Obviously, if you read my post, this has nothing to do with if their opinions "matter." It just goes to show that I am not the only one who is not jumping up and down unrealistically about a very mediocre Texans offseason. I have posted fact upon fact regarding my observations but since it gets in the way of unrealistic, rose-colored glasses hopes and dreams, you would rather be in denial. Fine with me. G.) My statements against Kubiak are based on his sketchy background and the decisions he has already made. I never wanted him to come here from the start and he continues to validate my initial feelings every day. I wouldn't call that "bias" at all. I thought he was a mistake waiting to manifest himself from the beginning and I still do. H.) You are mistaken. I.) Sounds like you don't know what a "homer" is. I'll help you out -- look in the mirror.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:20 AM
Capers is gone. Doesn't matter anymore whether it would or wouldn't have worked out (although i think the fact that he didn't even get seriously considered for any of the head coaching vacancies out there this year should say plenty about what other organizations feel about him). But he is gone.... and he isn't coming back. And as far as all this stuff about being a true fan and whether that means you can cheer for a loss or not. Well people need to get off this high horse of 'a loss is never a gain' and realize in real life....in life other than 'inspirational poster world'....losing that last game gained us 100x more than winning it ever would have. So by that token, i consider myself a fan because i'm smart enough to know what is best for the team long term, and winning wasn't best for the long term....hell it wasn't even best for short term. Did you get a look at the player's faces and interviews after that game, to say they were completely distraught would be a lie. They were pissed about going 2-14....but they sure did have a certain look of relief and the key word here - 'hope.'

BTW - if would have had one ounce of a feeling that the organization or even the player's were going to be devastated over that last loss (somehow like the 13 before weren't just as bad).....well i would maybe feel a little different. i think everyone was on board by that last game....that we had way more to gain by losing. and since no has or can write the rule on what makes a fan a fan....i want to say my personal def. is someone who cheers for whats in the team's best interest towards the progress of getting wins.

swtbound07
04-15-2006, 03:23 AM
You can still be a fan and root against the team. Different fans have different goals. Personally, finishing 3-13 was no better than finishing 2-14. Capers would still lose his job, the season would still be a disaster, and we would still be a laughing stock. Getting that last win against an equally bad team would not give us momentum to be a playoff contender next year. We were going to get rid of a bunch of players, get a new scheme, and get a new coach.

You had short term goals of winning that week, I had long term goals of getting potentially one of the best college prospects ever. I wanted what I felt was best for the Texans in the long run, you wanted a win to close the season.


No, you cant be a fan and root against the team. You can rationalize it any way you wish. This message board is made up of many different viewpoints, but what binds us together is that we ALL want the texans to win every sunday. Its why we are fans. The thing is, you dont know what would have happened if we won. What happens if years down the road, reggie busts out, and the player we would have gotten at 4 is a probowler. Is losing that last game what was best for the franchise then? 16 games in the season. If you try to win as many of them as you can, then AFTER the season you can start looking at the draft. But during the season to root against your own team is not being a fan. Whatever you tell yourself to make it better, thats fine.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:28 AM
No, you cant be a fan and root against the team. You can rationalize it any way you wish. This message board is made up of many different viewpoints, but what binds us together is that we ALL want the texans to win every sunday. Its why we are fans. The thing is, you dont know what would have happened if we won. What happens if years down the road, reggie busts out, and the player we would have gotten at 4 is a probowler. Is losing that last game what was best for the franchise then? 16 games in the season. If you try to win as many of them as you can, then AFTER the season you can start looking at the draft. But during the season to root against your own team is not being a fan. Whatever you tell yourself to make it better, thats fine.

I agree with your definition of a fan, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that everybody is a part of your "tie that binds." I don't think all of us are necessarily fans of the Texans. After all, there are a lot of folks on this board who have already said they will dump the team if they don't draft VY.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:31 AM
this whole arguement is sort of ridiculous anyways....because if you are big sports fan in general like myself....well you like several different teams in several different leagues in several different sports. There are some that you hope prevail over others when they are playing against eachother....but you still can be a fan of both teams. Its impossible to define....and trying to force your personal defintion and 'fan agenda' on someone is ludicrous.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:32 AM
Capers is gone. Doesn't matter anymore whether it would or wouldn't have worked out (although i think the fact that he didn't even get seriously considered for any of the head coaching vacancies out there this year should say plenty about what other organizations feel about him). But he is gone.... and he isn't coming back. And as far as all this stuff about being a true fan and whether that means you can cheer for a loss or not. Well people need to get off this high horse of 'a loss is never a gain' and realize in real life....in life other than 'inspirational poster world'....losing that last game gained us 100x more than winning it ever would have. So by that token, i consider myself a fan because i'm smart enough to know what is best for the team long term, and winning wasn't best for the long term....hell it wasn't even best for short term. Did you get a look at the player's faces and interviews after that game, to say they were completely distraught would be a lie. They were pissed about going 2-14....but they sure did have a certain look of relief and the key word here - 'hope.'

I do recall that Capers was indeed seriously considered for one or more HC positions this year. The fact that he is gone and isn't coming back doesn't mean it wasn't a huge mistake and just as good as any reason to be unhappy with the team in general. Losing that last game means the Texans got to make one pick before another team. Big deal. And for you to say that the Texans were OK with losing -- well, that's plain garbage. No NFL team that is performing on the field for people who are paying to see those two teams perform to the best of their ability would ever go out there and then "not care" about losing. And I'm sure there "hope" would be just as strong if they won that game.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:32 AM
Capers is gone. Doesn't matter anymore whether it would or wouldn't have worked out (although i think the fact that he didn't even get seriously considered for any of the head coaching vacancies out there this year should say plenty about what other organizations feel about him). But he is gone.... and he isn't coming back. And as far as all this stuff about being a true fan and whether that means you can cheer for a loss or not. Well people need to get off this high horse of 'a loss is never a gain' and realize in real life....in life other than 'inspirational poster world'....losing that last game gained us 100x more than winning it ever would have. So by that token, i consider myself a fan because i'm smart enough to know what is best for the team long term, and winning wasn't best for the long term....hell it wasn't even best for short term. Did you get a look at the player's faces and interviews after that game, to say they were completely distraught would be a lie. They were pissed about going 2-14....but they sure did have a certain look of relief and the key word here - 'hope.'

I do recall that Capers was indeed seriously considered for one or more HC positions this year. The fact that he is gone and isn't coming back doesn't mean it wasn't a huge mistake and just as good as any reason to be unhappy with the team in general. Losing that last game means the Texans got to make one pick before another team. Big deal. And for you to say that the Texans were OK with losing -- well, that's plain garbage. No NFL team that is performing on the field for people who are paying to see those two teams perform to the best of their ability would ever go out there and then "not care" about losing. And I'm sure there "hope" would be just as strong if they won that game.

swtbound07
04-15-2006, 03:36 AM
this whole arguement is sort of ridiculous anyways....because if you are big sports fan in general like myself....well you like several different teams in several different leagues in several different sports. There are some that you hope prevail over others when they are playing against eachother....but you still can be a fan of both teams. Its impossible to define....and trying to force your personal defintion and 'fan agenda' on someone is ludicrous.

But it wasnt a case of "I like this team vs. I like this team too". Its a case of...well it fits my agenda to say 2-14 was better than 3-13 for the Texans, and I for one am calling BS. You want the number one pick??? You want your team to finish worst in the league? Reggie is THAT MUCH better than the other prospects in the draft...give me a freaking break.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:40 AM
this whole arguement is sort of ridiculous anyways....because if you are big sports fan in general like myself....well you like several different teams in several different leagues in several different sports. There are some that you hope prevail over others when they are playing against eachother....but you still can be a fan of both teams. Its impossible to define....and trying to force your personal defintion and 'fan agenda' on someone is ludicrous.

Most of the times I simply find myself rooting for the underdog -- no matter who it might be -- because I like to see surprises and experience a little something different. But of course I don't stand up and yell my lungs out and scream for the underdogs to win like I used to do for the Texans for the first four years. After having teams yanked out from under me (the Cincinnati Royals, the Cleveland Browns and to a lesser extent the Oilers) I have found that the fan thing is very overrated and, yes, you can turn the fan thing on and off like you would a water faucet. If you don't like what they are doing, you can simply say, "Hey, forget them, I'm simply not going to get emotionally involved in them anymore." This is especially true in the mobile society we live in nowadays where people might move to several different cities in their lifetime and dump teams in order to adopt new ones or move to cities that don't have teams (like LA) and then simply watch the games for the heck of it.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:42 AM
My point is on Capers mostly is he just isn't here anymore. I mean....he isn't in the equation of this team. I mean sure he can and should be discussed because its a free country and free board....but i mean it really relates to current Texan football zip. Apparently you don't know the schematics of the draft and how that all is decided....but we weren't risking dropping just one spot....it could have been several. For instance the 49ers not being in the #2 spot are they? And to say 'Big Deal'....thats just stupid....you can ignore the logic all you want but if it just wasn't a big deal....people would be swapping them back and forth for fun. If it wasn't a 'Big Deal' then no one would give a **** about trading up and down and all that stuff. You can't just say 'Big Deal' and expect anyone to completely forget the fact that having the Number 1 compared to the Number 3 or 4 is a HUGE deal. I could at least see what you were saying a little more say if it were from 3 to 5 or something like that....but the Number 1 means you are in the driver seat....you get not only your pick but loosely determine the way everyone else after you has to draft (at least for the top 10). And also, you can deny human nature as much as you want to view this fairy tale perception that nothing is won through losing....but every single Texan that walked off that field (with the exception of thoise who realized the new NUmber 1 pick might take their spot) understood the fact they did in fact GAIN a huge deal for next year. I'm not saying they won....but they sure did GAIN...and what would they have gained at all from one more win at the end of the year....don't say momentum! They would have realuized maybe they could have beat as team as ****ty as they were? Its not like we were playing the ****ing colts.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:46 AM
Most of the times I simply find myself rooting for the underdog -- no matter who it might be -- because I like to see surprises and experience a little something different. But of course I don't stand up and yell my lungs out and scream for the underdogs to win like I used to do for the Texans for the first four years. After having teams yanked out from under me (the Cincinnati Royals, the Cleveland Browns and to a lesser extent the Oilers) I have found that the fan thing is very overrated and, yes, you can turn the fan thing on and off like you would a water faucet. If you don't like what they are doing, you can simply say, "Hey, forget them, I'm simply not going to get emotionally involved in them anymore." This is especially true in the mobile society we live in nowadays where people might move to several different cities in their lifetime and dump teams in order to adopt new ones or move to cities that don't have teams (like LA) and then simply watch the games for the heck of it.

I agree with that. thats why i'm just trying to sort of get across the idea of this euphoric die-hard fan ideal that swtbound has. A fan should be described as someone who wants their team to win....but also do the best and be in the best position possoible to win. And losing that game wouldn't have done a damn thing for us....I mean maybe you could argue this if we were at least playing a team at .500....but winning that game wouldn't have given the players a damn thing to look forward to in the offseason.. No guy would have gone in the locker room and said 'WOW guys...great win....now lets build on this domination over a 2-13 team like ourselves for next year!"

Bobo
04-15-2006, 03:47 AM
BTW - if would have had one ounce of a feeling that the organization or even the player's were going to be devastated over that last loss (somehow like the 13 before weren't just as bad).....well i would maybe feel a little different. i think everyone was on board by that last game....that we had way more to gain by losing. and since no has or can write the rule on what makes a fan a fan....i want to say my personal def. is someone who cheers for whats in the team's best interest towards the progress of getting wins.

Hogwash. Fans don't root for their teams to lose -- ever. These unknowledgeable folks who root against their team may think that they are showing more intelligence "than the average bear," but actually they are simply showing their ignorance about what a fan really is. If you are a true, dyed-in-the-wool fan, you NEVER, EVER root against your team. And you definitely do NOT stay at home with tickets you have already purchased. If you do root against them, then you simply aren't a fan of that team. I remember when I was a Browns fan. I don't care how bad their record was, I rooted for them to win. There was NO WAY I would root for them to lose, no matter what was at stake. There is a certain pride the team takes with them out on the field and that pride is rewarded with a win -- not a loss. Real fans share in that pride, and if you don't, well, you simply aren't a fan of that team. There's no sin in that, of course. But don't go around saying you are a Texans fan and then root against them. Folks will think you are real, real confused.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:50 AM
Im not trying to say that wanting to win was stupid or anything....i'm just saying that i believe and quite frankly...very easily believe you can still be a dedicated hardcore fan...and have wished they lost the last game. Just because that it is a FACT that winning that ONE game...against the 49er's....wouldn't have done one more thing for morale in that locker room that knowing you at least secured the Number 1 pick in the draft. Which no matter what you say and the varying opinions of how important it is....you can't argue that it has 'no importance or value'. Thus meaning they only had something to gain...by losing. I know....it really does sound ****ty. But it is the truth.

swtbound07
04-15-2006, 03:51 AM
My point is on Capers mostly is he just isn't here anymore. I mean....he isn't in the equation of this team. I mean sure he can and should be discussed because its a free country and free board....but i mean it really relates to current Texan football zip. Apparently you don't know the schematics of the draft and how that all is decided....but we weren't risking dropping just one spot....it could have been several. For instance the 49ers not being in the #2 spot are they? And to say 'Big Deal'....thats just stupid....you can ignore the logic all you want but if it just wasn't a big deal....people would be swapping them back and forth for fun. If it wasn't a 'Big Deal' then no one would give a **** about trading up and down and all that stuff. You can't just say 'Big Deal' and expect anyone to completely forget the fact that having the Number 1 compared to the Number 3 or 4 is a HUGE deal. I could at least see what you were saying a little more say if it were from 3 to 5 or something like that....but the Number 1 means you are in the driver seat....you get not only your pick but loosely determine the way everyone else after you has to draft (at least for the top 10). And also, you can deny human nature as much as you want to view this fairy tale perception that nothing is won through losing....but every single Texan that walked off that field (with the exception of thoise who realized the new NUmber 1 pick might take their spot) understood the fact they did in fact GAIN a huge deal for next year. I'm not saying they won....but they sure did GAIN...and what would they have gained at all from one more win at the end of the year....don't say momentum! They would have realuized maybe they could have beat as team as ****ty as they were? Its not like we were playing the ****ing colts.


No draft pick is worth a texans win. I would trade 2-14 and the number one pick RIGHT NOW for 3-13 and the 6 or 7. Why? Because we would have earned it. Because our franchise wouldnt have been accused on national television of throwing games for a stupid draft pick. Because its GOOD when your team wins. Its not a fairy tale perception. Its called being a fan. Your trying to watch football and rationalize it into your little box to make it okay for you to root for your team to lose. Fine, be my guest. But as far as Im concerned, its sick. Moreso than that, it's stupid. Now here is my question for you. We went 4-12 our inaugural season, yes? We were going to draft a wide reciever. We lose one more game, we are picking in the #2 spot instead of number 3....where a young man named Charles Rogers sat. Would you rather have the win and the draft pick we got, or would you prefer a loss and Collarbone Rogers. The draft isn't a lock. We've done fine picking from the 3 spot, and fine picking from the 10 spot. We would have been fine at the 6 or 7 spot. The day you start rooting for your team to lose to get this player or that player is the day you arent a fan anymore.

JAXwithanX
04-15-2006, 03:56 AM
Hogwash. Fans don't root for their teams to lose -- ever. These unknowledgeable folks who root against their team may think that they are showing more intelligence "than the average bear," but actually they are simply showing their ignorance about what a fan really is. If you are a true, dyed-in-the-wool fan, you NEVER, EVER root against your team. And you definitely do NOT stay at home with tickets you have already purchased. If you do root against them, then you simply aren't a fan of that team. I remember when I was a Browns fan. I don't care how bad their record was, I rooted for them to win. There was NO WAY I would root for them to lose, no matter what was at stake. There is a certain pride the team takes with them out on the field and that pride is rewarded with a win -- not a loss. Real fans share in that pride, and if you don't, well, you simply aren't a fan of that team. There's no sin in that, of course. But don't go around saying you are a Texans fan and then root against them. Folks will think you are real, real confused.

so how exactly are you going to prove that. please god....prove to me that your idea of a fan is the only way to think of it. you act like you can....like you have some kind of rationale....but my rationale is the team did whats best for them in the long run...that makes me the best ****ing fan in the world now.....as a matter of fact....there....you can only be a fan if you cheer for whats best for your team....and if you don't you are not only not a fan....your are a close minded, impatient idiot. this can go either ways all night all day and for the rest of sports as we know it. neither of us can prove it either way.

swtbound07
04-15-2006, 04:03 AM
I agree with that. thats why i'm just trying to sort of get across the idea of this euphoric die-hard fan ideal that swtbound has. A fan should be described as someone who wants their team to win....but also do the best and be in the best position possoible to win. And losing that game wouldn't have done a damn thing for us....I mean maybe you could argue this if we were at least playing a team at .500....but winning that game wouldn't have given the players a damn thing to look forward to in the offseason.. No guy would have gone in the locker room and said 'WOW guys...great win....now lets build on this domination over a 2-13 team like ourselves for next year!"

Cheering for your team to win every game is an ideal?? A fan should be described as someone who cheers for their team to WIN. Winning that game would have done something for us. It would have made us 3-13. If you dont see the value in that, then there isnt anything else i can say. Can i also say, you have no idea how the players would have reacted to a win. Maybe if we had won that last game in cleveland two years ago this year would have gone differently. Maybe winning against san francisco would have saved us from Reggie Bush. Who knows what would have happened. If you derived one ounce of pleasure from any texans loss this year, you got no heart.

BigDTexansFan
04-15-2006, 09:16 AM
Good stuff overall. I can't quite get fully onboard with your 4/3+Weaver+Cowart =fixed defense. I think we have a long ways to go, but I think we will see some real progress on D this year.


From everything I heard Weaver was constantly double teamed freeing up DT or LB to blitz, as to Cowart the position he plays is QB of the defense and I think with Wong not likely to be ready for opening day we need experience in that slot

aj.
04-15-2006, 09:41 AM
I think it's very likely that the Texans take a MLB on Day 1 - probably at 65 or 66. I don't think DQ slips that far but Hodge might.

gtexan02
04-15-2006, 10:20 AM
I would gladly take either, but if came down to DQ + Colledge or Eric Winston +Hodge, I'd take the DQ

And on another note, to swtbound07, if you'd like to sit on your high horse and preach to us inferior fans about what you believe in, thats fine. In fact, if it makes you feel better about yourself to dictate to others that they can't be fans, thats fine too. I love football, and even more than football, I love Texans football. There is absolutely nothing more exciting to me than the prospect of us winning, as I'm sure if you'd read anything but half of one sentence of the first post you'd have understood. Last year was the most frustrating season of a sports team I have ever seen. There were times midway through games that I would simply turn the tv off because I was so pissed at how inept our coaching staff was. At how lousy the effort from the players was.

So how does this matter? If the coaches aren't going to care, if the players aren't going to try, then do you still cheer for them or not? All those fans that left games really early and didn't care whether we won or lost or not, all those fans who didn't even show up to the game because they no longer wanted to watch a team with no effort get demolished, are they still fans?

What you are doing here is making up a defintion of "real fan" that you are using to exclude a random few people on this messageboard from being considered fans of the Texans. OK? Done? Feel better? Now according to you, there are less "real fans" than before. Thanks for that. It sure is helping make this board a better place. You are the almight real fan, we inferior fans are not worthy. *we're not worthy!!!* is that what you were going for?

Seriously, what were you trying to accomplish by bringing this huge debate up again? This topic was supposed to bring confidence to people. I wanted to cheer us on, congratulate the coaches, inspire the fans, etc. You on the other hand, simply take half of one sentence and try and invalidate everything else I"ve said. Why? Just to be a jerk? Just so you can feel superior to a few people who wanted the Texans to have a higher pick? I don't see what you are accomplishing. Anyway, "real super true fan" I hope you're happy that you've successfully hijacked what was supposed to be a fun discussion of the changes weve made, and turned it into this petty argument about something that actually has NOTHING to do with football, and really, after its over, doesnt matter anyway. I know who I cheer for and your "super fan rhetoric" isn't going to change my mind to pack up my bags and root for the Titans, so whats the point?

gtexan02
04-15-2006, 10:32 AM
Who knows what would have happened. If you derived one ounce of pleasure from any texans loss this year, you got no heart.

PS this is the type of things I'm talking about.

whiskeyrbl
04-15-2006, 11:00 AM
A.) Capers was sticking with the folks he had, hoping they would gel together. You have to give them time to come together -- you can't just mix everything up whenever something doesn't go right. They needed some time. Obviously, they never did gel, but Capers went about doing what he should have by giving them time. Then again, I am amused by how "Texans fans" were yelling and screaming about how Capers needed to change the OL around and then when he did, the same folks yelled about how he was moving people "out of their natural positions." B.) You, like everybody else who bashes Capers, refuse to even look at how Capers led this team from its infancy to within one game of .500 in just three years. Your blasting of him is just as unwarranted as it would have been if it was directed at Holmgren and Cowher when they had bad years with their respective teams. To call Capers a failure is to call Cowher and Holmgren failures when they had bad years. C.) You aren't an enthusiast if you are rooting for a team to lose. That's a simple fact. For you to argue otherwise flies against common sense. D.) I have said many times that FA will not help a team anywhere when all you do is pick up folks nobody else wants -- which is the case in most FA acquisitions. E.) I only post here once a day every three or four days for the most part. Trolls get on the message board every day and purposely write things to stir people up and then are constantly on the board seeing if they succeeded. I could care less about that. F.) I am definitely not the only person to say these things about the Texans offseason. There are a lot of people who have said the same thing. Some of those folks on KILT have basically said the Texans offseason has been pretty mediocre. G.) Why do you think I care what people call me? I personally think it's kind of funny when folks call me a Titans fan when I never even cared for them when they were in Houston. I have found in the normal course of life that there are lots of people who try to stereotype others so they can within their mind's eye put them in a little box and believe that they have them all figured out so they won't have to deal with the truth they present. Hence, the expression, "Oh, he's just a liberal Democrat" or "Oh, he's just a conservative Republican" which allows that person to dismiss everything the person says, no matter how true it is. So now you can see how amused I am when people try to call me a Titans troll. It only shows me that folks like you are trying to find a way to deny the facts I am serving up.

Unfortunately you are serving up your own guesses, not facts! There is NO WAY to tell how this team will do till they start practicing this new offense. If you listened to the players last year THEY didn't like the plays that were called or the way they were used in schemes.I personally like the moves that have been made and am looking forward to a stellar draft. I think it is you that is going to be surprised.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:00 AM
So how does this matter? If the coaches aren't going to care, if the players aren't going to try, then do you still cheer for them or not? All those fans that left games really early and didn't care whether we won or lost or not, all those fans who didn't even show up to the game because they no longer wanted to watch a team with no effort get demolished, are they still fans?

The coaches and players ALWAYS care -- and so should the fans, if they are real fans, of course! If a player or coach doesn't care, they are quickly found out and shipped away. And yes, those people who bought tickets but didn't even bother to show up for the games aren't real fans. Real fans stick with the team through thick and thin -- like I did last year when some of these same so-called "fans" laughed at me for doing so, then said that I was really dyed-in-the-wool simply because I wanted to use what I had already purchased. As I have said many times before, I have basically lost my allegiance to this team and have given up on them due to the stunts they have pulled in the last three months. I don't have to drink the Kool Aid and accept their boneheaded moves, so I choose not to follow a team that is bound and determined to commit intellectual suicide and run itself into the ground for the forseeable future. It's one thing to do everything you can to win. It's another thing to wedge yourself firmly into the cellar for years to come due to your own stupid decisions and that's exactly what is happening here. I freely admit I am no longer a Texans fan -- at least compared to what I was last year. The excitement and the electricity that was here when Capers was in charge just isn't there anymore for this team and I doubt it will ever return. I don't care about attending the Texans Draft Day -- I haven't even thought about it. I'm already thinking about who I can give my preseason games to -- of course, nobody I know really wants them anyway. Everytime Kubiak comes on the radio or TV, I turn it off. That's just the way it is. I am sorry that happened because I enjoyed going out to Reliant and yelling myself hoarse for the Texans. However, that is now a thing of the past. But even though I don't really consider myself a fan of the Texans anymore, I certainly am more of a fan than these other folks who don't even go to the games they have paid for. If I am more than a fan than they are, what does that make them?

Vinny
04-15-2006, 11:15 AM
I freely admit I am no longer a Texans fan not a shock...most of us figured this out a long time ago.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:17 AM
Unfortunately you are serving up your own guesses, not facts! There is NO WAY to tell how this team will do till they start practicing this new offense. If you listened to the players last year THEY didn't like the plays that were called or the way they were used in schemes.I personally like the moves that have been made and am looking forward to a stellar draft. I think it is you that is going to be surprised.

I look at this team from a completely unemotional view and, like many others who see things as I do, this team isn't going anywhere. Some unbiased observers say they win six games, tops. I don't see them doing even that well since I don't see six wins on the sked. Oh, sure, they may come out and surprise the Eagles who aren't all that great a team at this point either. But over time, this team will simply be mediocre at best and will miss the playoffs until Peyton Manning retires. The sooner folks realize that, the quicker they can adapt and adjust to this team as "lovable losers," just like the Mets were embraced in 1962. Unfortunately, the unrealistic and overexpecting so-called Houston "fans" pretty well dashed those hopes when they unfairly demanded Capers' ouster, having completely forgotten how far he took this team in the first three years. Now the only thing that will satisfy them will be a playoff appearance -- something totally unrealistic for a team in their position for the forseeable future. Seems to me like Houston fans are doomed to years of disappointment and unfulfilled expectations -- but they just bring it on themselves.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:20 AM
not a shock...most of us figured this out a long time ago.

Sounds like some folks didn't get the news, though. Just because I have lost the excitement and electricity for this team doesn't mean I hate them, though. I just really don't care much about them anymore -- and in a way, for the Texans management, that's even worse than hating them.

CoachJim
04-15-2006, 11:24 AM
I freely admit I am no longer a Texans fan

Then why oh WHY do you frequent this board? ... Ya see that lil red dot on the right side of every post you make? It means your opinion around here isn't worth much to most of us. I'll go out on a limb & use a quote I read on another board:

"If football acumen were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to drive a piss-ants motorcycle halfway around a gumball"

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:42 AM
Then why oh WHY do you frequent this board? ... Ya see that lil red dot on the right side of every post you make? It means your opinion around here isn't worth much to most of us. I'll go out on a limb & use a quote I read on another board:

"If football acumen were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to drive a piss-ants motorcycle halfway around a gumball"

Sounds to me like you've taken the Kool Aid and are in denial about a 2-14 team that has a green coach, a green assistant staff and has had a questionable offseason. That's OK, I can understand that. Been there, done that. But no more. I post on this board because I have gone to the Texans games for the past four years now as a season ticket holder and will continue to do so -- just as I will continue to post here since I believe my purchase of season tix at least gives me the right to post my honest assessment of this team and give a perspective that isn't just the company line. I don't think that's hard to fathom. There are a lot of folks out there right now who may not be posting on this board who used to be real fans but have lost their enthusiasm for this team and have not had the excitement return just because an inexperienced coach with as much NFL head coaching experience as I have shows up. I don't really care about the Texans that much anymore, but I do care about NFL football and will continue to buy the season tix because I enjoy the NFL experience -- and I don't care if it's the Arizona Cardinals and the SF 49ers who are playing in Reliant Stadium. I don't care about the teams, but the NFL is boss. Unfortunately, many folks aren't like me and their enthusiasm for the NFL isn't big enough to ignore their apathy toward this team. And seeing that this team isn't headed for the playoffs in the forseeable future, then McNair should be very, very concerned because sooner or later, the fan base will dry up as will his season ticket waiting list. Then he'll be left with getting people into the stands with gimmicks -- like hiring big-name coaches or bringing in future HOF players on the verge of retirement in hopes of giving season tix sales a shot in the arm. Last year it was proven that the Houston Texans fan base is a mile long but an inch thick. This football team was basically abandoned by the city as a whole midway through the season by so-called Houston "fans." Just think what it will be like after another few more years of losing seasons.

TexansLucky13
04-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Then why oh WHY do you frequent this board? ... Ya see that lil red dot on the right side of every post you make? It means your opinion around here isn't worth much to most of us. I'll go out on a limb & use a quote I read on another board:

"If football acumen were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to drive a piss-ants motorcycle halfway around a gumball"

He gets pleasure out of stirring up 2 entire pages of conflict on every thread. He is also proving that he does not pay attention to what he writes, and is more closed-minded than one of those Islamic Jihad guys. He has his "opinions" and he will not rest until all of us have presented factual evidence to the contrary of his bias. He acts, talks and smells like a troll. Case closed.

Anyways.... I would also like to see a MLB in the 1st day. Greenwood sure didn't do what we wanted him to do, and that position is very important for a defense. Only my opinion, of course.

:texflag:

Vinny
04-15-2006, 11:46 AM
Bobo, you can post here but if you continue to just insult the fans (trolling), we have ways to deal with it without your approval.

PapaL
04-15-2006, 11:54 AM
Anyways.... I would also like to see a MLB in the 1st day. Greenwood sure didn't do what we wanted him to do, and that position is very important for a defense. Only my opinion, of course.

:texflag:

Greenwood was never a MLB until he got here, that position was manned by Zach Thomas in MIA. Greenwood should be a better player for us this when he moves back to OLB. Hopefully Cowart/Wong can hold down the fort at MLB until we get some young guy in there.

Vinny
04-15-2006, 11:56 AM
Greenwood was never a MLB until he got here, that position was manned by Zach Thomas in MIA. Greenwood should be a better player for us this when he moves back to OLB. Hopefully Cowart/Wong can hold down the fort at MLB until we get some young guy in there.If Cowart makes the team he will be a situational MLB. He will play in running downs and come out in passing downs. I suspect Greenwood would move inside in nickel packages or other defensive passing packages.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:58 AM
If Cowart makes the team he will be a situational MLB. He will play in running downs and come out in passing downs. I suspect Greenwood would move inside in nickel packages or other defensive passing packages.

This is interesting. I have been hearing for weeks how great an acquisition Cowart was. Now somebody actually says, "If Cowart makes the team." Must be another Texans non-fan.

Bobo
04-15-2006, 11:59 AM
Bobo, you can post here but if you continue to just insult the fans (trolling), we have ways to deal with it without your approval.

Then to be fair, you'd have to do the same thing to folks who have insulted me just because I expressed an unbiased opinion.

gtexan02
04-15-2006, 12:00 PM
Greenwood was never a MLB until he got here, that position was manned by Zach Thomas in MIA. Greenwood should be a better player for us this when he moves back to OLB. Hopefully Cowart/Wong can hold down the fort at MLB until we get some young guy in there.

#1, Wong won't be ready until at least 6-8 weeks into the season
#2 Wont played much better as an OLB in my mind
#3, Cowart has had some injury questions about him

Therefore I hope we spend our 1st pick of the second round on a MLB. Its my top position of need aat the moment

Vinny
04-15-2006, 12:04 PM
Then to be fair, you'd have to do the same thing to folks who have insulted me just because I expressed an unbiased opinion.I've banned members for insulting you...and taken grief for it...but I like to think I'm fair. Just remember, THIS IS A TEXANS SITE and this board is moderated by Texans fans as this forum is dedicated to Houston Texans Football. This is our house so while we love to host fans of all kinds, if you want to come in here just to insult the fan base in our house…well, put two and two together. I deal with our fans as much as rival fans....trust me.

PapaL
04-15-2006, 12:06 PM
#1, Wong won't be ready until at least 6-8 weeks into the season
#2 Wont played much better as an OLB in my mind
#3, Cowart has had some injury questions about him

Therefore I hope we spend our 1st pick of the second round on a MLB. Its my top position of need aat the moment

I completley agree, with injuries and age a concern at MLB I would love to see our 2nd pick be a MLB. Wasnt Wong complaining about playing MLB last year and that he wanted to play OLB? (Or did I get those backwards?) Well maybe not complaining, but said he prefered to play the other spot.

swtbound07
04-15-2006, 12:08 PM
I would gladly take either, but if came down to DQ + Colledge or Eric Winston +Hodge, I'd take the DQ

And on another note, to swtbound07, if you'd like to sit on your high horse and preach to us inferior fans about what you believe in, thats fine. In fact, if it makes you feel better about yourself to dictate to others that they can't be fans, thats fine too. I love football, and even more than football, I love Texans football. There is absolutely nothing more exciting to me than the prospect of us winning, as I'm sure if you'd read anything but half of one sentence of the first post you'd have understood. Last year was the most frustrating season of a sports team I have ever seen. There were times midway through games that I would simply turn the tv off because I was so pissed at how inept our coaching staff was. At how lousy the effort from the players was.

So how does this matter? If the coaches aren't going to care, if the players aren't going to try, then do you still cheer for them or not? All those fans that left games really early and didn't care whether we won or lost or not, all those fans who didn't even show up to the game because they no longer wanted to watch a team with no effort get demolished, are they still fans?

What you are doing here is making up a defintion of "real fan" that you are using to exclude a random few people on this messageboard from being considered fans of the Texans. OK? Done? Feel better? Now according to you, there are less "real fans" than before. Thanks for that. It sure is helping make this board a better place. You are the almight real fan, we inferior fans are not worthy. *we're not worthy!!!* is that what you were going for?

Seriously, what were you trying to accomplish by bringing this huge debate up again? This topic was supposed to bring confidence to people. I wanted to cheer us on, congratulate the coaches, inspire the fans, etc. You on the other hand, simply take half of one sentence and try and invalidate everything else I"ve said. Why? Just to be a jerk? Just so you can feel superior to a few people who wanted the Texans to have a higher pick? I don't see what you are accomplishing. Anyway, "real super true fan" I hope you're happy that you've successfully hijacked what was supposed to be a fun discussion of the changes weve made, and turned it into this petty argument about something that actually has NOTHING to do with football, and really, after its over, doesnt matter anyway. I know who I cheer for and your "super fan rhetoric" isn't going to change my mind to pack up my bags and root for the Titans, so whats the point?


You miss my point in this dont you? Im not trying to be better than anybody else....and kindly stop referring to my posts as "rhetoric". You happen to have hit on a very sore spot of mine, and the fact that you refer to it as a petty arguement fuels it even more. If we cant agree on such a base thing as wanting your team to win, then what can we agree on? Im not saying dont be glad we've got the number one pick...be excited about that, okay fine. But wanting your team to lose just to get there is ridiculous. Do you not remember when we didnt HAVE football in Houston? Do you not remember how that felt? Im not trying to get you to pack up your bags and move anywhere bro.....the point is to get you to stop and think about what a slippery slope you are on when you start rooting for your team to lose.

gtexan02
04-15-2006, 12:29 PM
You miss my point in this dont you? Im not trying to be better than anybody else....and kindly stop referring to my posts as "rhetoric". You happen to have hit on a very sore spot of mine, and the fact that you refer to it as a petty arguement fuels it even more. If we cant agree on such a base thing as wanting your team to win, then what can we agree on? Im not saying dont be glad we've got the number one pick...be excited about that, okay fine. But wanting your team to lose just to get there is ridiculous. Do you not remember when we didnt HAVE football in Houston? Do you not remember how that felt? Im not trying to get you to pack up your bags and move anywhere bro.....the point is to get you to stop and think about what a slippery slope you are on when you start rooting for your team to lose.

On and on.... Oh well. Yes, we cannot agree on how we feel about the last game of last season. Im pretty sure we can agree on most other things. I fail to see how they are related? And as such, I fail to understand why this is such a sore spot for you. If you really care about all the Texans fans so much that when you see some of them start to slip, you try to bring them back, then I have grossly misjudged you and I'm sorry for that. If thats the case, then please know that hoping for one loss isn't going to change my allegiances, no matter how slipperly the slope. I really feel that this is not the case, however, as seen from the agressive tone throughout all your previous posts. In fact, I really do think that you are trying to draw some sort of imaginery line in the sand where you can split up people and say "We are REAL fans, and you are not" Why, I still don't know, but again, I may be misinterpreting you.

Now then, here is what the post was SUPPOSED to be about:

1. We have a high pick, Im excited
2. No matter who we choose, we will get someone who could be allpro
3. Our new coaching staff has a new take on things that the players are responding to
4. We improved our offense through additions of Sherman as OL coach, Flannagan at center, Putzier at TE, Moulds at WR and the depth we got at OG
5. We improved our run defense with the addition of Weaver at DE, Cowart at MLB, and the move back to the 4-3

The season is still months away, and we are already shaping up to be competitive. I know you said you can't agree with me, but if you don't agree with any of those, you are either A) Bobo, or B) Not a real fan, no matter who you cheered for during the 49ers game. (just kidding, lets please not start another debate)

Runner
04-15-2006, 12:44 PM
I think it's very likely that the Texans take a MLB on Day 1 - probably at 65 or 66. I don't think DQ slips that far but Hodge might.

scroll ... scroll ... scroll ... post by AJ? read ... scroll ... scroll




Sorry - was that out loud?

the wonger need food
04-15-2006, 01:14 PM
A.) We didn't have a need at TE. The TE is needed to stay in for pass protection. A pass-catching TE only makes things worse. B.) WR wasn't a need either. None of the WRs produced this year because there was no protection for Carr. Gaffney would have been just fine if he would have been given time to complete his routes. He did a good job filling in for AJ when he was out.

Hey coach Capers... this is exactly why you will never get another HC job and your boy Pendry is on the unemployment line.

bad
04-15-2006, 01:39 PM
...If you derived one ounce of pleasure from any texans loss this year, you got no heart. That's a bit harsh, but I understand where you're coming from. I played a lot of sports growing up (mostly football) and losing always sucked hind leg. You never want anything to do with losing, ever, for any reason.

Fans who have never competed in sports may see things differently, but it should be universally accepted that as professional football players, you always play to win from snap to whistle. Personnel is down the hall, two doors to the right.

The only good loss is the one you hang on your opponent.

sprtsfanatic
04-15-2006, 06:37 PM
Hogwash. Fans don't root for their teams to lose -- ever. These unknowledgeable folks who root against their team may think that they are showing more intelligence "than the average bear," but actually they are simply showing their ignorance about what a fan really is. If you are a true, dyed-in-the-wool fan, you NEVER, EVER root against your team. And you definitely do NOT stay at home with tickets you have already purchased. If you do root against them, then you simply aren't a fan of that team. I remember when I was a Browns fan. I don't care how bad their record was, I rooted for them to win. There was NO WAY I would root for them to lose, no matter what was at stake. There is a certain pride the team takes with them out on the field and that pride is rewarded with a win -- not a loss. Real fans share in that pride, and if you don't, well, you simply aren't a fan of that team. There's no sin in that, of course. But don't go around saying you are a Texans fan and then root against them. Folks will think you are real, real confused.

Then according to you then there are not many "fans" in Houston. If I remember correctly channel 13 had a poll on during that last game and it was well over 87% of the local "fans" that wanted the Texans to win the "Bush Bowl"....personally I think swt 07 over there in florida has some serious issues with his "fan" dilema, and that this entire arguement of what/who is a real fan is ridiculous....oh and as a side note....Capers blew as a hc, and really was not fit for this team....to coach a team to keep it close till the 4th qtr and hope your within striking distance in the final minutes is NO WAY TO COACH AN EXPANSION TEAM. Did he think that such a young team if allowed to run up a score would let it get to their heads??? Wait....isnt that what we wanted?? Wasnt that the purpose of trying to get a winning streak going??? Under his strategy it would have been better to lose the next game after any win.

southtexan
04-15-2006, 10:40 PM
As stated on this board on numerous occasions, most unbiased observers believe this type of assessment is nothing but the exclamations of homers wearing rose-colored glasses. Until the offensive line starts blocking somebody to keep Carr from having to run for his life and until the defense can actually prevent opposing RBs from running up team records, then all of this "awesome" talk is nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. The OL is still a mess and unproven and the defensive improvements are minimal at best. How you can describe this offseason as "awesome" is beyond me.
Personally I've to be realistic about the Texans this coming season, I've no idea how many games they're going to win or how good of a draft we're going to have, but I've to be optimistic. We've no other way to go but up, we should have a better team.

touttail
04-16-2006, 09:12 AM
I don't know where you get this "excitement is in the air with our team" I don't feel any and the unbiased observers don't sense any either. If you put out the same team with the same coach this year, they'd probably be better than 2-14. Heck, they were 7-9 the previous year. I would rather they have kept Capers. He had the team going in the right direction. Yes, he had a bad year last year. But both Cowher and Holmgren had bad years and look where they ended up this past season.

By excitement, I am speaking of our FA pick ups. We casterated our defense last year and got PBuc and Greenwood. Big deal!
We have gotten some decent FA's this year and that's pretty exciting to me. Maybe not to others, but is pumps me up that they got a new coach and trying to do something postitive for this team.

Bobby 119C

touttail
04-16-2006, 09:16 AM
One thing thats curious to me, is that Bobo advocates for Capers to stay, but then claims we haven't changed enough. I guarantee you if Capers had stayed, we would have A) Made even less changes and B) Performed even worse than last


I'LL DRINK TO THAT !!!!

Bobby 119C

touttail
04-16-2006, 09:25 AM
Umm, try a Pro Bowl alternate who only played three games in 2004 due to patella tendinitis in his left knee that required season-ending surgery and missed two games last year because of a sports hernia (credit: Wisconsin State Journal). But I am sure that as this injury-prone "Pro Bowler" is only 32 years old and is basically just a rookie since he's only in 11th year in the NFL and is getting younger and younger, the picture is only getting rosier and rosier for this OL. Yeah, right. Another record year in sacks allowed and a bunch of single-game rushing records against this defense looks more like it.


Maybe not a super bowler or a multi pro-bowler, but man you got to start somewhere when rebuilding. Caper and crew just wanted to shuffle players, not try new ones. Yeah we all remember Boselli, but what if this guy got healthy and was a kick butt OLineman. You gotta play the numbers and at least give it a shot. You either will be a hero or a zero. Alot of coaches don't have the cojones to put themselves in this position. I feel Kube does!

Bobby 119C:yahoo:

touttail
04-16-2006, 09:28 AM
A.) Capers was sticking with the folks he had, hoping they would gel together. You have to give them time to come together -- you can't just mix everything up whenever something doesn't go right. They needed some time. Obviously, they never did gel, but Capers went about doing what he should have by giving them time. Then again, I am amused by how "Texans fans" were yelling and screaming about how Capers needed to change the OL around and then when he did, the same folks yelled about how he was moving people "out of their natural positions." B.) You, like everybody else who bashes Capers, refuse to even look at how Capers led this team from its infancy to within one game of .500 in just three years. Your blasting of him is just as unwarranted as it would have been if it was directed at Holmgren and Cowher when they had bad years with their respective teams. To call Capers a failure is to call Cowher and Holmgren failures when they had bad years. C.) You aren't an enthusiast if you are rooting for a team to lose. That's a simple fact. For you to argue otherwise flies against common sense. D.) I have said many times that FA will not help a team anywhere when all you do is pick up folks nobody else wants -- which is the case in most FA acquisitions. E.) I only post here once a day every three or four days for the most part. Trolls get on the message board every day and purposely write things to stir people up and then are constantly on the board seeing if they succeeded. I could care less about that. F.) I am definitely not the only person to say these things about the Texans offseason. There are a lot of people who have said the same thing. Some of those folks on KILT have basically said the Texans offseason has been pretty mediocre. G.) Why do you think I care what people call me? I personally think it's kind of funny when folks call me a Titans fan when I never even cared for them when they were in Houston. I have found in the normal course of life that there are lots of people who try to stereotype others so they can within their mind's eye put them in a little box and believe that they have them all figured out so they won't have to deal with the truth they present. Hence, the expression, "Oh, he's just a liberal Democrat" or "Oh, he's just a conservative Republican" which allows that person to dismiss everything the person says, no matter how true it is. So now you can see how amused I am when people try to call me a Titans troll. It only shows me that folks like you are trying to find a way to deny the facts I am serving up.

Is Capers your Dad or Uncle??????:sarcasm:

Bobby 119C

dalemurphy
04-16-2006, 11:37 AM
You miss my point in this dont you? Im not trying to be better than anybody else....and kindly stop referring to my posts as "rhetoric". You happen to have hit on a very sore spot of mine, and the fact that you refer to it as a petty arguement fuels it even more. If we cant agree on such a base thing as wanting your team to win, then what can we agree on? Im not saying dont be glad we've got the number one pick...be excited about that, okay fine. But wanting your team to lose just to get there is ridiculous. Do you not remember when we didnt HAVE football in Houston? Do you not remember how that felt? Im not trying to get you to pack up your bags and move anywhere bro.....the point is to get you to stop and think about what a slippery slope you are on when you start rooting for your team to lose.


Fans always want their team to "win". However, it's apparent that fans define winning differently. By midseason I considered anything a win that would expedite major changes in the coaching staff, for instance. I have season tickets and live in Austin. I also have three young children. It isn't the easiest thing to do- making trips to Houston on Sunday to watch the games. I do it because I enjoy it and am a fan of the team.

I made the trip for the Cleveland game and derived no satisfaction from it. They played horribly. The style of football was boring and uninspired despite the fact that they won. If God would have offered me a deal that day:
1. Houston beats Cleveland but things remain the same with the team next year
or
2. Houston loses to Cleveland today but it leads to a more interesting and improved team next year... I would definitely have taken the Cleveland loss.

Would you say that means that I'm not a "real" or a "good" fan? When fans say they were rooting for the team to lose, that's all they mean- that perhaps a loss will bring quicker improvement to the team. I never rooted for the team to lose in 2002, 2003, or 2004, despite the fact that I knew they weren't playoff bound. Last year's team, however, needed to be blown up! and I was willing to suffer a couple of extra losses to make sure that happened.

OzzO
04-16-2006, 03:31 PM
I've just got to say wow. This has been one helluva ride for me, and hopefully its not ending here. I mean, this has been the best offseason I've ever experienced as a Texans fan.

It all started with that SF 49ers game. I don't like to be a "cheer for the loss" kind of guy, but in this case, I was.

Next came the Rosebowl. VY, Bush, Leinart, Lendale were all doing their best to raise their draft stock. After the game, I realized how amazing our draft position was.

Then the Free Agents/Trade. The Weaver signing would have been enough (based on my old expectations) but then we go out and get Putzier, Flannagan, Moulds, Cowart, and Kalu.

The pro days were next on the agenda, and again, our draft position was only made more valuable.

Now we've got articles and stories on the revamped team. 30th ranked run defense? 4-3 + Weaver + Cowart = fixed! (hopefully). 30th ranked offense? Kubiak + Cook + Moulds + Putzier + Flannagan + Motivating Carr = fixed!

And lastly, with the players we've brought in for interviews, how can anyone not be excited. The three players we're negotiating with: Bush, Williams, Young. All 3 could be superstars in the NFL if they live up to their hype.

Here it is in summary form: We tank the 49ers, the rosebowl showcased some 1st round talent, we had countless holes on both sides of the ball that we actually filled with decent players, the coaches and players express confidence in their new schemes, and the worst player we will bring in on April 29th could be a rookie probowler. Awesome!


So, back to regularly scheduled post after a few pages of what defines fandom....

Have to agree, an intesting offseason to date with the previous coaching staff shown the door and a new one brough in place. Have yet to see a down with the new staff, but I don't think it was "change for change's sake" that resulted in the new staff. I think the previous crew brought the Texans as far as they could go with their scheme, and if they wanted to go further a new system had to be installed (Texans ver 2.0) The rumblings throughout last year of buzzers and executing and gelling (like Magellin) and faster 3 step drops, complicated plays, read and react, audible to a run, and on and on..... it just wasn't gonna end well.

As for the Niners game - didn't really root for a loss, was kinda more indifferent to see how they would end the season. Now, when the loss happened, yeah - I was exstatic for the first pick and knowing changes would happen with the dismal season. Guess that makes me an indifferent exstatic fan now? Ah well.

As for the FA picks - generally excited for what we got because we didn't break the bank on any and we filled a few holes (at least temporarily) with some proven players so we can focus a little more on BPA in the draft and not have our picks forced because we have immediate openings needed.

Glad we switched to a 4-3 as well, with the previous coaches - I would've thought we could've handled and selected the appropriate players for a 3-4, but didn't seem to happen.... but we only had in place for a couple of years, correct... maybe 3? However, the 4-3 seems to make the players excited, coaches used to it, GM's able to pull more from colleges with similar positions...

Yeah, I'm excited for the Texans this year (as I optimistically am every year... indifferent exstatic optimistic fan for those keeping score at home) but it seems just a little moreso this time around - at least since the 1st two offseasons cause there was a needed change this time around, and personally - I think it was a change for the better.

kingh99
04-16-2006, 04:32 PM
Capers? Capers?? The only Capers I remember were the ones your mom used to put in dad's martinis.

Bobo
04-16-2006, 09:31 PM
>One thing thats curious to me, is that Bobo advocates for Capers to stay, but then claims we haven't changed enough. I guarantee you if Capers had stayed, we would have A) Made even less changes and B) Performed even >worse than last

A.) The criticism is the changes haven't been in the right places, not that the team hasn't changed enough. No changes necessary in skill positions -- changes are obviously needed in OL and defense. Hey, haven't I said that a million times before? B.) I believe if Capers was given another chance you might have seen a turnaround like Holmgren/Cowher experienced. Capers was a fine coach for the first three years. He didn't get stupid all of a sudden. His dismissal was way, way too hasty. But then again, I've said that a million times before as well.

HJam72
04-16-2006, 09:37 PM
Sharper, Glenn, and DD kept Capers from looking like a fool. He was a great DC, but, as a head coach, he trusted Fangio way too much and wouldn't let Palmer run his offense. Then, he fired Palmer (his one decent coach, besides Mariucci) and promoted Pendry, who has been the entire organization's biggest problem since day 1, and Pendry went on to TOTALLY screw up the offense. Your're certainly right that the O-line has been this team's biggest problem, but Pendry is most likely the biggest single reason that the O-line sucked in the first place.

Grid
04-16-2006, 09:40 PM
#1, Wong won't be ready until at least 6-8 weeks into the season
#2 Wont played much better as an OLB in my mind
#3, Cowart has had some injury questions about him

Therefore I hope we spend our 1st pick of the second round on a MLB. Its my top position of need aat the moment


Alot of mocks have us taking Gerris Wilkinson in the 3rd. I like that pick.

gtexan02
04-16-2006, 09:49 PM
>One thing thats curious to me, is that Bobo advocates for Capers to stay, but then claims we haven't changed enough. I guarantee you if Capers had stayed, we would have A) Made even less changes and B) Performed even >worse than last

A.) The criticism is the changes haven't been in the right places, not that the team hasn't changed enough. No changes necessary in skill positions -- changes are obviously needed in OL and defense. Hey, haven't I said that a million times before? B.) I believe if Capers was given another chance you might have seen a turnaround like Holmgren/Cowher experienced. Capers was a fine coach for the first three years. He didn't get stupid all of a sudden. His dismissal was way, way too hasty. But then again, I've said that a million times before as well.

2-14 season = not too hasty. You list me a team that went 2-14 and/or worse in the coaches 3rd or later year and didn't fire their coach and I'll be very surprised.
Just for your own knowledge, since you seem to be utterly confused, here are Cowher's stats with the Steelers:
Year Team G W L T PCT
2005 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 15 1 0 .938
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 6 10 0 .375
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 10 5 1 .656
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 13 3 0 .813
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 9 7 0 .563
1999 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 6 10 0 .375
1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 7 9 0 .438
1997 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
1996 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 10 6 0 .625
1995 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
1994 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 12 4 0 .750
1993 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 9 7 0 .563
1992 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688

The worst he's ever done is 6-10, and other than those 2, he's had significant winning seasons to surround those

And Holmgren:
Year Team G W L T PCT
2005 Seattle Seahawks 16 13 3 0 .813
2004 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563
2003 Seattle Seahawks 16 10 6 0 .625
2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 7 9 0 .438
2001 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563
2000 Seattle Seahawks 16 6 10 0 .375
1999 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563

Again, only 6-10, and only once. And he had a winning percentage before coming into Seattle with GB, going 11/5, 13/3, 13/3, and 11/5 before coming to seattle.

Secondly, there have been many changes on both OL and DL. Here are the ones I know of:
1) Hiring Sherman as OL coach
2) Signing Flannagan
3) Signing Peko
4) Shuffling OL to suit our needs
5) Switching to the 4-3
6) Moving Peek/Babin back to their traditional spots
7) Moving Smith and TJ back to DTs
8) Signing Weaver
9) Signing Kalu

How is that not "significant changes" to the lines exactly?

JAXwithanX
04-16-2006, 09:50 PM
If Eric Winston is there in the top of the second....and we don't pick him....i'm going to ****. OUr line will improve because of Sherman, Flanagan, and the fact people get to play in their normal spots now.....but to think we have an adequate LT is not debatable....its laughable.

MLB is a need and hope we address it very soon in the draft (hell both our 3rd round picks)....but Cowart is a better stopgap there right now than we have at LT....we can't keep ignoring the fact that protecting your QB's backside makes so many more aspects of your offense better.

gtexan02
04-16-2006, 10:43 PM
I fail to see why Eric Winston is rated so much higher than Daryn Colledge.

Colledge
Height: 6-4 3/8 | Weight: 299 | 40-Time: 5.04
Strengths:
Has a good frame and should be able to add some weight...Is a brilliant pass blocker...Very technically sound...An excellent athlete with great quickness who moves extremely well...Has a nasty demeanor on the field and plays to the whistle...Hard worker who wants to be great...Strong and Explosive...Is a stud in the weight room...Has a lot of experience and consistently grades out very well...Mature with top intangibles...Versatile and can play multiple positions.

Weaknesses:
Needs to add some weight and continue to bulk up for the next level...Must improve as a run blocker...Struggles with massive defenders and can get pushed back...Is still developing and not yet a finished product...Doesn't always play with proper leverage and knee bend...Did not always play against elite competition.

Notes:
Lightly regarded recruit from North Pole, Alaska who entered college at 235 lbs...Very raw coming out of high school and did not play football as a sophomore or junior...Started every game of his college career...Has the physical tools and natural ability to play the critical left tackle position in the pros which is coveted.

Winston
Height: 6-6 5/8 | Weight: 310 | 40-Time: 4.94
Strengths:
Has excellent size with long arms and the frame to pack on some additional weight...Extremely athletic and quick for the position...Has amazing feet...Mobility is outstanding...Can pull and block in space...Competitive and physical...Uses his hands well and has a good initial punch...Very smart and a hard worker with top intangibles...Gets better each game and still has a ton of upside and potential.

Weaknesses:
Suffered a major knee injury as a junior in 2004 and didn't appear to be fully recovered yet...Has some trouble with speed rushers...Can he play left tackle or will he have to move to the right side?...Raw and is still mastering the nuances and technique of the position...Needs to get stronger and continue to develop physically...Can he get much bigger without losing his quickness and mobility?

Notes:
Came to college as a tight end...Looked like a future elite left tackle prospect prior to the injury...Stock dropped in 2005 but that downturn in play might be attributed to his not yet being 100% healthy...It usually takes two seasons to come back from the type of surgery he had so some team may get a steal if he slips a bit on Draft Day and then reverts back to the form he showed in '03 & '04.

Colledge just seems underrated, and is predicted to last until late 2nd-middle 3rd. That'd be huge if we could get someone like D'Qwell Jackson with our #33

Bobo
04-16-2006, 11:15 PM
2-14 season = not too hasty. You list me a team that went 2-14 and/or worse in the coaches 3rd or later year and didn't fire their coach and I'll be very surprised.
Just for your own knowledge, since you seem to be utterly confused, here are Cowher's stats with the Steelers:
Year Team G W L T PCT
2005 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
2004 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 15 1 0 .938
2003 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 6 10 0 .375
2002 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 10 5 1 .656
2001 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 13 3 0 .813
2000 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 9 7 0 .563
1999 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 6 10 0 .375
1998 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 7 9 0 .438
1997 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
1996 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 10 6 0 .625
1995 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688
1994 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 12 4 0 .750
1993 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 9 7 0 .563
1992 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 11 5 0 .688

The worst he's ever done is 6-10, and other than those 2, he's had significant winning seasons to surround those

And Holmgren:
Year Team G W L T PCT
2005 Seattle Seahawks 16 13 3 0 .813
2004 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563
2003 Seattle Seahawks 16 10 6 0 .625
2002 Seattle Seahawks 16 7 9 0 .438
2001 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563
2000 Seattle Seahawks 16 6 10 0 .375
1999 Seattle Seahawks 16 9 7 0 .563

Again, only 6-10, and only once. And he had a winning percentage before coming into Seattle with GB, going 11/5, 13/3, 13/3, and 11/5 before coming to seattle.

Secondly, there have been many changes on both OL and DL. Here are the ones I know of:
1) Hiring Sherman as OL coach
2) Signing Flannagan
3) Signing Peko
4) Shuffling OL to suit our needs
5) Switching to the 4-3
6) Moving Peek/Babin back to their traditional spots
7) Moving Smith and TJ back to DTs
8) Signing Weaver
9) Signing Kalu

How is that not "significant changes" to the lines exactly?

A.) You are forcing me into sounding like a broken record. Do a search on my postings and you will find I have dealt with these so-called "significant" changes. Moving folks around and signing folks with back problems and backups are not significant changes by any means. And like I have also said, I am not the only person who has said this. B.) Under Cowher from 2001 to 2003, the team regressed 7 games (13-3 to 6-10) and went from being a successful, winning franchise to a losing one in two years. Cowher's team plummeted a lot farther than the expansion Texans did (dropped from 7-9 to 2-14, five games) yet Cowher kept his job and went on to the Super Bowl. Capers didn't regress as much as Capers did and he didn't have a team with an infrastructure already in place like Cowher and Holmgren did when they took over their teams. When Seattle and Pittsburgh fell, it was a much worse decline than the Texans when you take into account the type of infrastructure both the Seahawks and Steelers had. C.) Like I've said many times before, Capers came into this town and took a team from scratch -- something neither Holmgren nor Cowher did -- and brought them to within a game of .500 within three years when all he had to work with was NFL rejects and green rookies. Funny how I never hear anyone mention that fact. D.) For some reason, people try to compare the Texans records with the records of other teams without taking into account the fact that the Texans were an expansion team with no infrastructure whatsoever during Capers' tenure. When you honestly take that into account, what Capers did was remarkable. Yet, he was fired despite his accomplishments -- after one bad season. As I recall, the coach of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs went a year and a half without getting one lousy victory, yet he still held his job. Capers accomplishments far superceded McKay's, but it was Capers who was given the axe. Face it -- Capers was treated unfairly and one will never know how far he would have taken this team if the Texans front office would have exhibited the same patience that the Seahawks and Steelers did with their respective SB coaches.

Texas
04-16-2006, 11:26 PM
OMG WERE GONNA BE BETTER THEN THE 95 COWBOYS :wow:

OR MAYBE LIKE the 72 DOLPHINS :redtowel:

OR MAYBE WE WILL BE JUST OKAY :ok:

HOWEVER RIGHT NOW WE DONT KNOW ANYTHING SO LETS STAY :confused:

HJam72
04-16-2006, 11:26 PM
Well, I'm totally convinced now. Let's fire the whole staff and bring Capers back. :wacko:

texplayer2
04-16-2006, 11:30 PM
A.) You are forcing me into sounding like a broken record. Do a search on my postings and you will find I have dealt with these so-called "significant" changes. Moving folks around and signing folks with back problems and backups are not significant changes by any means. And like I have also said, I am not the only person who has said this. B.) Under Cowher from 2001 to 2003, the team regressed 7 games (13-3 to 6-10) and went from being a successful, winning franchise to a losing one in two years. Cowher's team plummeted a lot farther than the expansion Texans did (dropped from 7-9 to 2-14, five games) yet Cowher kept his job and went on to the Super Bowl. Capers didn't regress as much as Capers did and he didn't have a team with an infrastructure already in place like Cowher and Holmgren did when they took over their teams. When Seattle and Pittsburgh fell, it was a much worse decline than the Texans when you take into account the type of infrastructure both the Seahawks and Steelers had. C.) Like I've said many times before, Capers came into this town and took a team from scratch -- something neither Holmgren nor Cowher did -- and brought them to within a game of .500 within three years when all he had to work with was NFL rejects and green rookies. Funny how I never hear anyone mention that fact. D.) For some reason, people try to compare the Texans records with the records of other teams without taking into account the fact that the Texans were an expansion team with no infrastructure whatsoever during Capers' tenure. When you honestly take that into account, what Capers did was remarkable. Yet, he was fired despite his accomplishments -- after one bad season. As I recall, the coach of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs went a year and a half without getting one lousy victory, yet he still held his job. Capers accomplishments far superceded McKay's, but it was Capers who was given the axe. Face it -- Capers was treated unfairly and one will never know how far he would have taken this team if the Texans front office would have exhibited the same patience that the Seahawks and Steelers did with their respective SB coaches.

Capers had a good philosophy for starting the franchise, but did not expand that as his team grew. I think he should have developed his system as his players experience increased. To me it seemed like the same stuff for four years and the other teams began to figure out his system. As for the two Superbowl Coaches, those teams got worse for one season and then rebounded. Capers never did get to .500 and then our team nose dived into a 2-14 record (worst in the League).

tulexan
04-16-2006, 11:45 PM
I fail to see why Eric Winston is rated so much higher than Daryn Colledge.


Came to college as a tight end...Looked like a future elite left tackle prospect prior to the injury...Stock dropped in 2005 but that downturn in play might be attributed to his not yet being 100% healthy...It usually takes two seasons to come back from the type of surgery he had so some team may get a steal if he slips a bit on Draft Day and then reverts back to the form he showed in '03 & '04.


I think this is why.

TreWardTxn
04-16-2006, 11:47 PM
The scouts like Winston more than Colledge because of his longer arms, that kind of thing can make or break a prospect, or at least move them down the food chain.

In all honesty, did anyone expect Capers to be the long term coach of the Texans? He was brought in to get another expansion franchise off the ground, which he did, but I don't think McNair ever intended him to be the one to take it to the next level. He didn't have the know-how (or staff) to develop a young QB and made bumbling mistakes like jumping on the 3-4 defense bandwagon and juggling the offensive line.

Hopefully, Kubiak can improve the talent the team does have and install stable offensive and defensive systems that prove they do work, as Cowher did in '95, before they came "crashing down" to 6-10 some years later...

tsip
04-16-2006, 11:55 PM
...talk about forgetting to mention the 'facts'---which expansion team of the modern era was the only team not to make the playoffs by their 4th year? Which expansion team of the same era had the worse record in their 5th year? Which expansion team was 5-24 in the last 29 games they played?

Give Up? It was 'Done Wrong' Capers Texans-you know, the same Capers that was getting his door knocked down for new coaching jobs for '06...nottttttttttttt.
Hey, you're almost up to 700 posts on the Titan's site--you know--that site you said you had nothing to do with!!!:spy:

TreWardTxn
04-17-2006, 12:07 AM
The "facts" of the matter are, that after the success the Panthers and Jaguars had as expansion teams, the NFL changed the rules; limiting the expansion draft, and their amount of draft picks (including those in the first round) available to build the team. Those teams were built on talented veteran players with plenty left in the tank, the Texans had/have a lot of young talent.

So, if you want to say Capers was handcuffed by the NFL, fine. That said, I still think he made too many bonehead mistakes to be retained as the HC. It got to the point where you looked at him and wondered how the team could do anything right...

Texans_Chick
04-17-2006, 12:08 AM
The excitement and the electricity that was here when Capers was in charge just isn't there anymore for this team and I doubt it will ever return.


My vote for Funniest MB Quote 2006.

Read it again. Slowly. Savor it.

I can't decide if Bobo's humor is unintentional or if he is wicked super genius funny ala the Tony Clifton/wrestling Andy Kaufman.

BRILLIANT!










(I just want to add that I think there are nice things to say about Capers, but engendering excitement and electricity are probably not terribly high on that list).

gtexan02
04-17-2006, 12:09 AM
A.) You are forcing me into sounding like a broken record. Do a search on my postings and you will find I have dealt with these so-called "significant" changes. Moving folks around and signing folks with back problems and backups are not significant changes by any means. And like I have also said, I am not the only person who has said this. B.) Under Cowher from 2001 to 2003, the team regressed 7 games (13-3 to 6-10) and went from being a successful, winning franchise to a losing one in two years. Cowher's team plummeted a lot farther than the expansion Texans did (dropped from 7-9 to 2-14, five games) yet Cowher kept his job and went on to the Super Bowl. Capers didn't regress as much as Capers did and he didn't have a team with an infrastructure already in place like Cowher and Holmgren did when they took over their teams. When Seattle and Pittsburgh fell, it was a much worse decline than the Texans when you take into account the type of infrastructure both the Seahawks and Steelers had. C.) Like I've said many times before, Capers came into this town and took a team from scratch -- something neither Holmgren nor Cowher did -- and brought them to within a game of .500 within three years when all he had to work with was NFL rejects and green rookies. Funny how I never hear anyone mention that fact. D.) For some reason, people try to compare the Texans records with the records of other teams without taking into account the fact that the Texans were an expansion team with no infrastructure whatsoever during Capers' tenure. When you honestly take that into account, what Capers did was remarkable. Yet, he was fired despite his accomplishments -- after one bad season. As I recall, the coach of the expansion Tampa Bay Bucs went a year and a half without getting one lousy victory, yet he still held his job. Capers accomplishments far superceded McKay's, but it was Capers who was given the axe. Face it -- Capers was treated unfairly and one will never know how far he would have taken this team if the Texans front office would have exhibited the same patience that the Seahawks and Steelers did with their respective SB coaches.


Since you seem so stuck on rebutting everything I say, how about tackling this one. It was painfully obvious that the team and the fans had given up on Capers. Carr was visibly frustrated with his playcalling, multiple people the defensive side of the ball were angry with the schemes, etc. They may have come out publically and said "We like Capers" and whatnot, but it was clear from watching game film that they were frustrated and ready for a change. So you can either stick with Capers and demoralize the players even more, or you can make a change in the coaching system and reenergize the players. Which do you think is more effective? Sure you could cut all the players that had a problem with Capers (ie Sharper, Glenn, etc) this year, but then you'd be left with almost no one. The team demanded a change, and they got it. End of story

Big78
04-17-2006, 01:10 AM
I don't know where you get this "excitement is in the air with our team" I don't feel any and the unbiased observers don't sense any either. If you put out the same team with the same coach this year, they'd probably be better than 2-14. Heck, they were 7-9 the previous year. I would rather they have kept Capers. He had the team going in the right direction. Yes, he had a bad year last year. But both Cowher and Holmgren had bad years and look where they ended up this past season.

How can u be unbiased and still say this is "your team". To claim a team as your own, u must like it and therefore you are biased. And if u are a texans fan and dont think that we have improved enought o become excited about the upcoming year, how can u be a fan? If u like the team that means u want them to succede, and that means that when the chance of their succeding is higher u should be more excited, right?

And, true, we would probably do better if last season were retried, but u cant say that capers had us going in the right direction and mean it. Most of the injuries that contributed to our sucking lately were due to overworking and misusage of players and their skills and that all leads back to capers and his staff. I am tired and cant think clearly enough to complete this point but i think most people get what im trying to say.

gtexan02
04-17-2006, 02:01 AM
What it comes down to is this: Football, like it or not, is a GAME. It is simply a bunch of guys trying to either have fun or make big money. The outcome isn't going to cure diseases, or educate children, or find wmd in iraq. It simply brings joy or sadness to a bunch of people who like to watch it. Therefore, if you are a fan of a team, and want to spend your valuable free time watching said team, you are generally hoping to get joy out of it.

Where am I going with this?

Because there are two attitudes you can take while being a sports fan. You can either A) Hope your team will get better than they were the previous year, and believe that the owner, gm, and coaches know what they are doing or B) Be pessimistic and doubt every move, while ducking under cover of your roof for fear the sky may be falling.

Some people derive pleasure from, well, pleasure, as in case A. Others seem to derive pleasure from the drearier case B. People are who they are, and theres no use trying to change them. If we had kept Capers, I'm sure Bobo hear would be just as ominous about our future.

If you aren't deriving pleasure from the dreary outlook case B, why even watch the team anymore? If you put your hand on a hot stove, and don't like the pain, then take it off for heavens sake. Bobo, if you are really this sad about the future of the Texans, do yourself a favor and quit watching them.

Mr. White
04-17-2006, 08:05 AM
Sure you could cut all the players that had a problem with Capers (ie Sharper, Glenn, etc) this year, but then you'd be left with almost no one. The team demanded a change, and they got it. End of story

I never heard this one before..... did Sharper and Glenn leave because they had a problem with Capers?

TheOgre
04-17-2006, 08:26 AM
Trolls die when they are not fed.

That is all.