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View Full Version : Have you "changed your mind" since the Rose Bowl?


Marcus
04-12-2006, 06:19 PM
I seriously would like to know if any of you have changed your mind since the Rose Bowl regarding who the Texans should take in the draft.

And why?

This has to do with McClain and Justice switching from the "Draft Vince" to the "Draft Bush" bandwagon, and some are excusing it as "the right to change their minds".

I don't recall anyone changing their minds over this issue. It's about as polarized as it possibley could get, IMO.

Texans86
04-12-2006, 06:26 PM
I in fact have changed my mind, but not in the Vince Young vs. Reggie Bush debate. I never thought Young would be a good choice, and I thought we had more needs than Bush could solve; therefore, I chose to trade down. Now that we've solved many of our offseason woes, I believe we can pick up Bush and still fill in needs at cornerback, safety and offensive line elsewhere in the draft. Would I be opposed to trading down, no. But now I'm not against drafting Bush. So I have changed my mind.

kastofsna
04-12-2006, 06:30 PM
nope.

thunderkyss
04-12-2006, 06:34 PM
Yes, absolutely....... before the RoseBowl, I was in the trade down only camp. We don't need a RB, we had too many wholes......... then after the RoseBowl, I was still firmly in the trade down camp........ but man I wish Vince would enter the draft...

5 days later, when he announced that he will enter the draft, I was like yes..... I hope the Texans trade down, or pick Vince.....

After Kubiak has done his thing, and addressed every one of our major needs, I moved into the draft Vince camp........ no reason to trade down.

They extended Carr's contract, signed Sage Rosenfells, & I'm like........... uhh..... damn, I liked Dave Ragone too, but oh well....... he'll get a chance somewhere else.

We've got DD, We've got Morency, but we've got to add another runnngback before the season starts.......... looks like the Texans are holding out for Reggie Bush.......... but I'm still hoping........

Everything Points to the Texans taking Reggie Bush......... but I hope they take Young.

Looks like the Texans are going to draft Reggie with the #1 overall, but I hope they draft Vince Young.

Only an insane, non-football knowing, ignorant ****, man-crush having, in the deepest of deepest denial, 6 scoring wonderlich tested person would think that the Houston Texans would draft Vince Young, but I hope they draft Vince Young.

Maddict5
04-12-2006, 07:00 PM
before i was in the trade-down for mario/d'brick camp because i felt we had to fill needs with all our picks but after our great FA and doing more research into other o-line prospect im now firmly in the draft reggie camp

rmartin65
04-12-2006, 07:30 PM
before i was in the trade-down for mario/d'brick camp because i felt we had to fill needs with all our picks but after our great FA and doing more research into other o-line prospect im now firmly in the draft reggie camp
Same.

Marcus
04-12-2006, 07:41 PM
Well, this is my fault that I didn't make it clearer, so allow my to clarify . . .

For those of you who wanted Vince after the Rose Bowl, have you since then changed your mind to Reggie? . . . . like Justice and McClain. And for those you who wanted Reggie after the Rose Bowl, have you changed your mind to Vince?

Trade-downers don't apply.:)

I want to find out if Justice and McClain are the only two souls on this earth who have 'changed their minds' from drafting Vince to drafting Reggie.

swtbound07
04-12-2006, 08:00 PM
No...after the rose bowl, when it finally became apparent that Vince would declare, I wanted him. havent stopped yet. Wont change until april 29th-30ish. Just a friendly reminder, I stop the arguing when we pick.

aj.
04-12-2006, 08:20 PM
I don't think it's that complicated. Over the past several weeks, Justice and McClain seem to have resigned to the fact that the Texans are going to draft Bush and not Vince. They appear to be somewhat reluctant Bush bandwagon jumpers who both would have preferred Vince, but realize #5 might be pretty good too.

Aside from the orangebloods threatening to cancel season tickets and buy Titans 10 jerseys, I would assume there are a lot of Texans fans who feel the same way, i.e., prefer Vince but will accept and fully support Carr and Bush if that's the way it turns out. Count me as one of those.

Mike Kerns
04-12-2006, 08:21 PM
Nope. Not once. Have been in Camp Reggie since The USC/Notre Dame game. It seemd like he went off for 50 yards every time he touched the ball in that game.

thunderkyss
04-12-2006, 08:23 PM
Well, this is my fault that I didn't make it clearer, so allow my to clarify . . .

For those of you who wanted Vince after the Rose Bowl, have you since then changed your mind to Reggie? . . . . like Justice and McClain. And for those you who wanted Reggie after the Rose Bowl, have you changed your mind to Vince?

Trade-downers don't apply.:)

I want to find out if Justice and McClain are the only two souls on this earth who have 'changed their minds' from drafting Vince to drafting Reggie.


BHave they changed their mind?? Or are they just being sensible. Supporting the decision they think Houston is going to make? Surely they aren't saying Vince isn't worthy of the #1 overall.

I'll start rooting for Reggie after Sept 10th. But that won't change my mind about what I think Vince will mean to his team in the future. As long as he doesn't go to the Cursed Saints, Arizona, or Detroit, he's going to be very successful.

If GreenBay gets him, watch out.

kastofsna
04-12-2006, 08:23 PM
did you watch the arizona state game? i don't think he was tackled at all.

Nighthawk
04-12-2006, 09:15 PM
I'll say it here just one time--I think Bush will be a bust in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I just don't see his skill set transferring to the major leagues. Everything that's good about him relies on the other players being slower and less agile and I just don't think we're going to find that in the NFL.

Mind you, even as a bust he'll be a decent player, but he will not be like head and shoulders above DDavis, for example.

As I say, I hope I'm very wrong.

And no, I haven't changed my mind since the Rose Bowl. Either Vince or trade down, or, in the best case, trade down & take Vince.

Wharton
04-12-2006, 09:21 PM
Nope, my views have not changed. I would still like for us to take Vince because I don't think David Carr is going to be a good quarterback. Frankly, DC looked like a scared kitten last year mostly due to all the sacks he has taken over the years. At this point, since taking VY is almost a none issue, I am hoping I am wrong about DC and he becomes a stable QB.

I have stopped posting about the subject on this board since the option signing because I just don't see any justification for keeping that much money tied up in the quarterback position and, also, itís a tired subject.

kastofsna
04-12-2006, 09:27 PM
I'll say it here just one time--I think Bush will be a bust in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I just don't see his skill set transferring to the major leagues. Everything that's good about him relies on the other players being slower and less agile and I just don't think we're going to find that in the NFL.
doesn't really make sense. you could say the same thing about barry sanders in college.

Tulip
04-12-2006, 09:48 PM
No, I haven't. And Justice and McClain haven't changed their minds either. They still want the Texans to draft Vince.

threetoedpete
04-12-2006, 09:48 PM
I'll say it here just one time--I think Bush will be a bust in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I just don't see his skill set transferring to the major leagues. Everything that's good about him relies on the other players being slower and less agile and I just don't think we're going to find that in the NFL.

Mind you, even as a bust he'll be a decent player, but he will not be like head and shoulders above DDavis, for example.

As I say, I hope I'm very wrong.

And no, I haven't changed my mind since the Rose Bowl. Either Vince or trade down, or, in the best case, trade down & take Vince.

Nope, I've been a trade down and draft brick guy since the end of the season. Been waiting on him for four years, we've got him in the cross hairs and we're gonna spit the bit. I'm not going to sit here and say Bush is going to be a bust. But....there's a reason no one is moving up for the greatest player of the decade, er ever. I've thought all along both sides have been dazzeled. Young's warts are obvious also. The only team I know that ran a spread in the NFL was Warren Moon. He was a true pocket passer, who had two HOFers @ gaurd and a pretty fair center and tackles, and they couldn't get it done. Texan's have no where near that level of offensive line tallent. And after a fifty million payout to whomever... they're not likely to get one anytime soon. That being said, Young's flaws are ingrained now. He sets his feet the way he sets his feet. He throws the ball the way he throws the ball. And no matter how hard he works....that isn't going to change. Improve maybe. So what you're basically saying with Young is, we're going to run the spread. And I do not believe the spread run 85% of the time will function in the NFL. I also don't believe Kubes is going to throw twenty years of learning down the tubes because Young is a rare tallent.
I also beleive with bush, every team we face will go nickel defense every down he hits the feild.. Do just what Texas did force him out of bounds. I hear he can run between the tackles. I hear that he can pass block. I haven't seen it yet. 201 Pounds is still 201 pounds. I believe Bush will be the guy. I'm not thrilled about it though.
We'll see, sisxteen more days.

TexansLucky13
04-12-2006, 09:52 PM
doesn't really make sense. you could say the same thing about barry sanders in college.

Exactly. You could also say that Vince Young's success relies on college pass rushers, and in general a lot of guys who just couldn't catch him. It's the exact same argument for both cases. To tell you the truth... I was anti-Bush before the Rose Bowl, and I was pro-Vince after it, until about a month ago. I realized, as many have, that it is not in the better interest of our team to pick him up. Here are my explanations:

1) David Carr has taken a significant extension that will go to waste if we pick up another QB. IMO if you truely do believe that Carr is over and done with.... you should still not want Vince Young. Leinart is a better QB, and will work better with Kubiak's new O-line. VY's throwing style will not be successful in the NFL... and his legs will not be used nearly as much as they were in college.

2) I love Domanick Davis. I hated to see him injured and out of play for parts of last year. If we have Reggie, the load will be shifted.... which will give us extra years with DD. I don't see Reggie as a replacement.... I see him as someone that will share the load. Reggie will never, IMO, be able to successfully push the ball up the middle. DD can do that. That's why I will love to see Davis training a young stud like Bush next year. So much potential.

3) Reggie Bush is considered the highest college prospect in the past 15 years. Does this mean that he will be the best RB in all NFL history? Absolutely not. I don't want you to think that I am blindly in love with the kid. He can bust, just like others have. But the 1st round pick is for BPA... and this year it should be no exception. Had we given Carr the boot this offseason... I would be explaining to you reasons why we should get a QB over Reggie, because there is tons of talent in the QB area. But I think Kubiak has something up his sleeve.... he has a strange Bill Belichick aura about him.

In the end... I just believe that Vince Young should not even be a discussion on this forum anymore. Vince will do well in Oakland (which is IMO where he will end up next year), but he would suffer here. Kubiak is already making changes to the O-line that will suit Reggie (like taking out heavier run blockers, like Todd Wade, and putting in quicker linemen), and Bush is the type of back that Kubes works well with. I also firmly believe, and defend, the thought that Kubiak can turn David into the "drop back and pass" type of guy he should be.... unlike Caper's version of him.

Next year will either be the Texans greatest move... our their worst nightmare. I, for one, foresee winning seasons.

:texflag:

swtbound07
04-12-2006, 09:55 PM
I'll say it here just one time--I think Bush will be a bust in the NFL. I hope I'm wrong about this, but I just don't see his skill set transferring to the major leagues. Everything that's good about him relies on the other players being slower and less agile and I just don't think we're going to find that in the NFL.

Mind you, even as a bust he'll be a decent player, but he will not be like head and shoulders above DDavis, for example.

As I say, I hope I'm very wrong.

And no, I haven't changed my mind since the Rose Bowl. Either Vince or trade down, or, in the best case, trade down & take Vince.


Welcome to the club nighthawk...that makes two of us that i know of...I just dont see it either. If he becomes a texan i hope im wrong, but I think he is destined for failure

TexanFan881
04-12-2006, 09:56 PM
At first I got really hyped over Vince Young and how good I thought he was that day during the Rose Bowl and how good he could be on our team. But than I went to bed and the next day I woke up and came back to my senses and realized just because VY played better than RB that game didn't mean he was better all season. At that point I sort of didn't think that the Texans could make a bad pick but then after RBs fantastic pro day I am pro-RB and I don't know how we don't pick him. I like him so much now that I'd almost hate to see us trade down and not get him.

BeerFan
04-12-2006, 11:06 PM
Everything that's good about him relies on the other players being slower and less agile

guess what? they ARE.

Mailman04
04-12-2006, 11:13 PM
If any pro defense sucks like USC's I might change my mind, but no I don;'t want the Texans to waste the No. 1 pick and that is what it would be with Young, a total waste.

TexansLucky13
04-12-2006, 11:24 PM
I agree with your sentiment.... VY would be a huge mistake with the first pick. The only way we get VY is if we get a sweet offer to trade, D'Brick gets taken and so does Leinart. If that happened, I would not feel bad about getting Vince. But a 1st round pick on a guy who some people think won't even make the top 10? What a joke.

Kaiser Toro
04-12-2006, 11:27 PM
No matter who the Texans take we will be better next year, that is the bottom line.

jgite
04-12-2006, 11:28 PM
Exactly. You could also say that Vince Young's success relies on college pass rushers, and in general a lot of guys who just couldn't catch him. It's the exact same argument for both cases. To tell you the truth... I was anti-Bush before the Rose Bowl, and I was pro-Vince after it, until about a month ago. I realized, as many have, that it is not in the better interest of our team to pick him up. Here are my explanations:

1) David Carr has taken a significant extension that will go to waste if we pick up another QB. IMO if you truely do believe that Carr is over and done with.... you should still not want Vince Young. Leinart is a better QB, and will work better with Kubiak's new O-line. VY's throwing style will not be successful in the NFL... and his legs will not be used nearly as much as they were in college.

2) I love Domanick Davis. I hated to see him injured and out of play for parts of last year. If we have Reggie, the load will be shifted.... which will give us extra years with DD. I don't see Reggie as a replacement.... I see him as someone that will share the load. Reggie will never, IMO, be able to successfully push the ball up the middle. DD can do that. That's why I will love to see Davis training a young stud like Bush next year. So much potential.

3) Reggie Bush is considered the highest college prospect in the past 15 years. Does this mean that he will be the best RB in all NFL history? Absolutely not. I don't want you to think that I am blindly in love with the kid. He can bust, just like others have. But the 1st round pick is for BPA... and this year it should be no exception. Had we given Carr the boot this offseason... I would be explaining to you reasons why we should get a QB over Reggie, because there is tons of talent in the QB area. But I think Kubiak has something up his sleeve.... he has a strange Bill Belichick aura about him.

In the end... I just believe that Vince Young should not even be a discussion on this forum anymore. Vince will do well in Oakland (which is IMO where he will end up next year), but he would suffer here. Kubiak is already making changes to the O-line that will suit Reggie (like taking out heavier run blockers, like Todd Wade, and putting in quicker linemen), and Bush is the type of back that Kubes works well with. I also firmly believe, and defend, the thought that Kubiak can turn David into the "drop back and pass" type of guy he should be.... unlike Caper's version of him.

Next year will either be the Texans greatest move... our their worst nightmare. I, for one, foresee winning seasons.

:texflag:



Are you formulating your opinion on the fact that USC ran a zone blocking scheme? Vince is more suited for this offense than Leinart, because of the bootlegs, play action and rollouts. Just generally moving the pocket. Vince can throw on the run and its perfect for it.

I still want Vince and I'm holding out until after 29th. If its Reggie, Williams, or trade down then I'm down. I'm a Texans fan first, but I will still pull for Vince in Tenn. Leinart stock has dropped a little, and apparently Floyd Reese wants him.

kastofsna
04-12-2006, 11:39 PM
Vince is more suited for this offense than Leinart, because of the bootlegs, play action and rollouts.
the problem is, that was pretty much the basic array of plays in USC's offense. there was like 10 play-action rollouts in the rose bowl alone. leinart threw the ball a LOT from the rollout.

vtech9
04-12-2006, 11:44 PM
Welcome to the club nighthawk...that makes two of us that i know of...I just dont see it either. If he becomes a texan i hope im wrong, but I think he is destined for failure
make it 3...I have never wanted Bush, but I have resigned to the fact that he will probably be a Texan, so I hope he does succeed. I'm still not sure about Carr. He is full of potential, but after 4 years, will it ever be realized.

BeerFan
04-12-2006, 11:50 PM
i hate these "college defense" arguments. Vince Young had no control over who he played. Al he could control was HOW he played, and he played very good football. He tore apart USC. He did his job. stop using that to knock the guy.

Reggie Bush is an incredible athlete. he can't help that he played crapply college defenses. he did his job. and yes, he did his job against UT too. it wouldnt have been a close game without him. what was it, 179 total yards. that's not half bad.

roethlisberger faced junk defenses too.

jgite
04-12-2006, 11:54 PM
the problem is, that was pretty much the basic array of plays in USC's offense. there was like 10 play-action rollouts in the rose bowl alone. leinart threw the ball a LOT from the rollout.


Good point, but who would be ultimately better at it. Carr would be better than Leinart right now, and Young would be better than both in the future, if you could hypothetically say that all 3 would run the same offense.

vtech9
04-13-2006, 12:03 AM
I agree with your sentiment.... VY would be a huge mistake with the first pick. The only way we get VY is if we get a sweet offer to trade, D'Brick gets taken and so does Leinart. If that happened, I would not feel bad about getting Vince. But a 1st round pick on a guy who some people think won't even make the top 10? What a joke.
If you listen to Mike Mayock on NFL network, Leinart doesn't have a strong enough arm to be a top 10 QB. He said that after watching all of USC's game tapes and watching him at his pro day, Leinart wasn't able to make all of the throws consistantly that a top 10 QB is expected to make. Mayock said that too many balls hit the turf during Leinart's pro day.

MorKnolle
04-13-2006, 12:04 AM
I have switched. To be honest I don't remember who I was wanting before the Rose Bowl, up until the last week or two of the NFL season I still didn't see us getting the #1 pick as I thought we'd at least beat the 49ers and be in the 3-5 range. I remember being a major fan of trading down and targeting Eric Winston, but since the Rose Bowl I have paid a lot more attention to the guys that will be at the top of the draft, watched the Senior Bowl and Combine stuff on TV and gone back and found game tapes on many of the guys from buddies that TiVo'd such things throughout the year. After looking back at all these guys, I must admit my impressions of Reggie Bush have improved a lot and now knowing that we have the #1 pick and are most likely taking him I must admit I have changed my opinion of him. I've also gotten to see a whole lot more of Mario Williams than I previously had, and my opinion of him has definitely changed too and he's still my #1 guy as he has been since a little before the Combine.

Huge1
04-13-2006, 01:59 AM
If you listen to Mike Mayock on NFL network, Leinart doesn't have a strong enough arm to be a top 10 QB. He said that after watching all of USC's game tapes and watching him at his pro day, Leinart wasn't able to make all of the throws consistantly that a top 10 QB is expected to make. Mayock said that too many balls hit the turf during Leinart's pro day.

It's not just Mayock that is saying this. Leinert's stock is dropping and may be the reason he chose to go a different direction with management (fired the best QB agent, Steinberg, for some strange reason). The kid's arm is just too weak to make the necessary throws that warrant even being taken in the top 10. Look for the Titans to go with Young or trade down for Cutler, both of whom GM Reese is VERY high on. Mike Greenberg of ESPN will be the happiest douche bag, Jet's fan with this scenario. He has had his head so far up Leinert's *** all season begging for this to happen so he can continue to toss his salad every Sunday.

And spare your "Norm Chow" familiarity retorts on Leinert....they are talent evaluators at that level and the talent is clearly in the other two qb's corner.

Vinny
04-13-2006, 11:03 AM
As the College season closed I mentioned that I thought Cutler would be a better pro than Leinart. This was way before most people even considered Jay Cutler a first round talent (I used to live in Nashville and follow the sec pretty close still). I also have been big on Young since way before the Rose Bowl. I base my thoughts on observing the game and don't put as much stock into workouts and wonder-licks. It works for me.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=58396&highlight=cutler#post58396

kastofsna
04-13-2006, 11:06 AM
If you listen to Mike Mayock on NFL network, Leinart doesn't have a strong enough arm to be a top 10 QB. He said that after watching all of USC's game tapes and watching him at his pro day, Leinart wasn't able to make all of the throws consistantly that a top 10 QB is expected to make. Mayock said that too many balls hit the turf during Leinart's pro day.
and yet he has a stronger arm than alex smith, which no one really seemed to have a problem with going #1 overall. this is just a simple case of a guy being in the spotlight for 3 years, with every single thing get overanalyzed. leinart's arm is as good as the average NFL quarterback's.

PokerStar
04-13-2006, 11:14 AM
Leinart will be fine, and just because he is a flighty Spoiled child does not make him the best QB in this draft. Now will he have the best career who knows, but in a win now enviornment like the NFL Leinart is the most ready to play.

Also Morknolle I found some tapes on Mario from his Junior year where he as also all ACC. This kid has been a monster for all three years he was in school. He is also my number 1 guy and I am a bigger fan of College than the pros(to much celebrating after every play), but I will watch some of these kids play ball. This is a good draft class and they are mostly high quality and character guys which can only improve the NFL.

Tulip
04-13-2006, 07:26 PM
If you listen to Mike Mayock on NFL network, Leinart doesn't have a strong enough arm to be a top 10 QB. He said that after watching all of USC's game tapes and watching him at his pro day, Leinart wasn't able to make all of the throws consistantly that a top 10 QB is expected to make. Mayock said that too many balls hit the turf during Leinart's pro day.

He's not the only one. Len Pasquerelli wrote a less-than-favorable article about Leinart last week.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2397632

God of Wine
04-13-2006, 07:57 PM
I seriously would like to know if any of you have changed your mind since the Rose Bowl regarding who the Texans should take in the draft.

And why?

This has to do with McClain and Justice switching from the "Draft Vince" to the "Draft Bush" bandwagon, and some are excusing it as "the right to change their minds".

I don't recall anyone changing their minds over this issue. It's about as polarized as it possibley could get, IMO.

I haven't. I wanted Bush since the beginning of the 2004 College Football season and I still do.:) I had no idea we would be able to be in position to draft him this year. I had no idea we would have the top pick of the 2006 draft. Coming off a 7-9 record I thought we would at least be the 15th pick or lower.

TreWardTxn
04-13-2006, 07:59 PM
The only reason I was ever satisfied that the Texans lost the game to San Fran was so they could sew up the number one pick and I thought they were gonna be able to fleece some team (San Fran) for a trade to the #1 spot.

Then You-Know-Who capped his collegiate career and entered the NFL draft. If people can't understand why Texans fans would want Vince Young; the player capable of taking and affecting every snap, the orchestrator of the offense, a player who demonstrated time and time again he could rally his teammates around him and lead his team to a comeback, then I suppose they just don't view football in the same way.

For any one who says that Leinart is the best QB and the only option for QB replacement, well, that's debateable. I don't see why I would replace my current QB with another whose talents and abilities are of a lesser quality.

kastofsna
04-13-2006, 08:05 PM
then why would you want young? too easy.

kiwitexansfan
04-13-2006, 08:36 PM
Have I changed my mind? Yes, quite a bit.

We don't get much college ball in New Zealand so I only watch a few bowl games and then work off the net to get a picture on the draft class.

VY blew me away in the Rose Bowl, I was all over him.

Then at the combine I was all for Williams.

All the highlights of Bush got me intrgued..

And now I am back to Williams.

I honestly think we can't lose.... unless we trade way down then I would be gutted.

axman40
04-13-2006, 09:19 PM
I still want VY!
:cool:

Hookem Horns
04-13-2006, 09:51 PM
Still haven't changed my mind however have already accepted the inevitable.

BTW, the Rose Bowl didn't affect my opinion of VY, it affected my opinion of Bush. I still can't get over the fact that IF the guy is so great why was he on the sidelines for most of the 4th and during crunch time.

Yes he had decent yards in the Rose Bowl however most of those were receiving yards. I just don't know if this guy is going to be a gamebreaker on the ground or be an all-purpose utility back like Eric Metcalf was.

TexansLucky13
04-13-2006, 09:56 PM
Are you formulating your opinion on the fact that USC ran a zone blocking scheme? Vince is more suited for this offense than Leinart, because of the bootlegs, play action and rollouts. Just generally moving the pocket. Vince can throw on the run and its perfect for it.

I still want Vince and I'm holding out until after 29th. If its Reggie, Williams, or trade down then I'm down. I'm a Texans fan first, but I will still pull for Vince in Tenn. Leinart stock has dropped a little, and apparently Floyd Reese wants him.

Hmm... I don't see why you would take Leinart out of that equation. He did very well with the zone blocking scheme... he was, after all, the USC QB (unless there is confusion on your part?). If anything, Kubiak's style will more suit Leinart because he is already well trained in that mannerism. It would take year to get Vince to the level that Leinart is at already, in respect to the zone blocking scheme. I don't understand your point.

jgite
04-13-2006, 10:19 PM
Hmm... I don't see why you would take Leinart out of that equation. He did very well with the zone blocking scheme... he was, after all, the USC QB (unless there is confusion on your part?). If anything, Kubiak's style will more suit Leinart because he is already well trained in that mannerism. It would take year to get Vince to the level that Leinart is at already, in respect to the zone blocking scheme. I don't understand your point.

Well i thought that the zone blocking scheme was primarily for running the ball. For every time its discussed its related to the running game. Just because he handed off the ball in a zone blocking scheme doesn't mean he is good for this team running this particular playbook. Zone blocking has nothing to do with pass protection. He didn't run Denver's playbook and he was just a bystander in the zone blocking scheme. His ceiling his lower compared to Young and Cutler.

kastofsna
04-13-2006, 10:21 PM
by the time young is ready to play, kubiak could be fired. leinart is the best fit for THIS offense.

LoneStarState
04-13-2006, 10:26 PM
BTW, the Rose Bowl didn't affect my opinion of VY, it affected my opinion of Bush. I still can't get over the fact that IF the guy is so great why was he on the sidelines for most of the 4th and during crunch time.

I'm sure if Reggie Had his way, he'd been in the game. It was PETE CARROLL who called the plays. Everyone agrees that was a bad coaching move.

The "on the sideline at the end of the game" mantra of the VY faithful is wearing thin.

Hookem Horns
04-13-2006, 10:39 PM
I'm sure if Reggie Had his way, he'd been in the game. It was PETE CARROLL who called the plays. Everyone agrees that was a bad coaching move.

The "on the sideline at the end of the game" mantra of the VY faithful is wearing thin.

Yeah, that is obviously not a valid concern is it? BTW, it maybe wasn't a bad coaching move. Maybe Carroll realized that Bush was not as effective against a faster defense and altered his game plan.

LoneStarState
04-13-2006, 10:42 PM
it maybe wasn't a bad coaching move. Maybe Carroll realized that Bush was not as effective against a faster defense and altered his game plan.
Ok... :rolleyes: Go with that...

Hookem Horns
04-13-2006, 10:48 PM
Ok... :rolleyes: Go with that...

So you think you have a bad coach now? Hey, he won the NC in 04 and before the Rose Bowl he was designated the greatest coach in college. I have a hard time thinking he suddenly got stupid in the 2nd half. Even Capers would be smart enough to have his best player on the field when the chips were down.

LoneStarState
04-13-2006, 10:53 PM
All coaches, even your beloved Mack Brown, make bad decisions. No coach is immune from that criticism. Carroll went with what had been working, what UT apparently couldn't stop. I guess after seeing basically the same play 20 times in a row and giving up a lot of yardage - UT finally caught on and stopped it. Personnaly, I would have had Reggie in there as a decoy or as the playmaker. But, I'm not the coach.

TexanFan881
04-13-2006, 10:55 PM
I didn't see fans cheering us on to get a first round pick of Vince Young before the Rose Bowl. Before that almost everyone wanted the first pick so we could get Bush. After the Rose Bowl now some people want him (not saying that all didn't want him before) but the Rose Bowl definately changed the way everyone was looking at the first pick. Now that the Rose Bowl is a few months in the past, the Vince Young hype is starting to fade and the Reggie Bush hype is starting back up all over again.

Mike Kerns
04-13-2006, 10:57 PM
All coaches, even your beloved Mack Brown, make bad decisions. No coach is immune from that criticism. Carroll went with what had been working, what UT apparently couldn't stop. I guess after seeing basically the same play 20 times in a row and giving up a lot of yardage - UT finally caught on and stopped it. Personnaly, I would have had Reggie in there as a decoy or as the playmaker. But, I'm not the coach.
Dude, I'm with you, but this is a battle you will never win. I know, I fought in this war also...

LoneStarState
04-13-2006, 11:16 PM
Dude, I'm with you, but this is a battle you will never win. I know, I fought in this war also...
I know - just trying to :stirpot:

Some people just can't stop sippin' the orange kool-aid. :rolleyes:

Hookem Horns
04-13-2006, 11:26 PM
I know - just trying to :stirpot:

Some people just can't stop sippin' the orange kool-aid. :rolleyes:

Or the maroon stupid juice.

Hookem Horns
04-13-2006, 11:27 PM
I didn't see fans cheering us on to get a first round pick of Vince Young before the Rose Bowl. Before that almost everyone wanted the first pick so we could get Bush. After the Rose Bowl now some people want him (not saying that all didn't want him before) but the Rose Bowl definately changed the way everyone was looking at the first pick. Now that the Rose Bowl is a few months in the past, the Vince Young hype is starting to fade and the Reggie Bush hype is starting back up all over again.

That might have something to do with the fact that VY wasn't coming out in the draft before the Rose Bowl.

LoneStarState
04-13-2006, 11:32 PM
Or the maroon stupid juice.
You know what happens when you assume...

MorKnolle
04-14-2006, 12:41 AM
Still haven't changed my mind however have already accepted the inevitable.

BTW, the Rose Bowl didn't affect my opinion of VY, it affected my opinion of Bush. I still can't get over the fact that IF the guy is so great why was he on the sidelines for most of the 4th and during crunch time.

Yes he had decent yards in the Rose Bowl however most of those were receiving yards. I just don't know if this guy is going to be a gamebreaker on the ground or be an all-purpose utility back like Eric Metcalf was.

Why would USC go with a speed back on a 4th and 1 against a defense that is built on speed and not built on strength when they have a 235 lb. RB that is built to pound it up the middle for a yard? Who did the Steelers hand the ball to on the goalline against the Colts in the playoffs? Jerome Bettis, because he is their power back that is meant for that role. Does that mean Willie Parker sucks because he wasn't in on that play (which Bettis fumbled BTW)? Players fit certain roles on a team, LenDale's role this last year was more of the short yardage runs like those and to pound it up the middle against defenses while Bush's role was more of a speed back and was more effective in open space where he can use his gifts, not to mention White had been running over the UT defense with ease that day, so how does that suddenly make Bush a crappy RB?

thunderkyss
04-14-2006, 01:21 AM
I agree with your sentiment.... VY would be a huge mistake with the first pick. The only way we get VY is if we get a sweet offer to trade, D'Brick gets taken and so does Leinart. If that happened, I would not feel bad about getting Vince. But a 1st round pick on a guy who some people think won't even make the top 10? What a joke.


Dante Culpepper & Ben Rothlisberger both slipped out of the top 10 because of thinking like this........... both appear to be #1 overall talents to me.

then why would you want young? too easy.

You honestly think David Carr has more talent and ability than Vince?? You honestly think David has more upside than Vince??



by the time young is ready to play, kubiak could be fired. leinart is the best fit for THIS offense.


So you agree we should get rid of Carr??

:stirpot:

I'm sure if Reggie Had his way, he'd been in the game. It was PETE CARROLL who called the plays. Everyone agrees that was a bad coaching move.

The "on the sideline at the end of the game" mantra of the VY faithful is wearing thin.

Pete Carroll, the same genius who increased Reggie's role in the offense for 2005, the same guy who has had 3 years to get to know the guy? the same guy that won 1.5 National Championships...... the guy that coached the best team in the NCAA for the last 3 years.

yeah, I'm buying that one.

Then again, he did say he was scured...... he didn't want the ball in Vince's hands..... he may have been so dizzy watching Vince, that he didn't know what he was doing.

So you think you have a bad coach now? Hey, he won the NC in 04 and before the Rose Bowl he was designated the greatest coach in college. I have a hard time thinking he suddenly got stupid in the 2nd half. Even Capers would be smart enough to have his best player on the field when the chips were down.

It wasn't that he got dumb in the second half. He only got dumb on USCs last offensive play of the game. Heck, doesn't he always go with Reggie on 4th & inches??

I mean through out the season, how many 4th & inches did USC attempt?? I'm sure they used Reggie on 70-95% of those attempts........ surely.

Unless he was just a role player on that team full of superstars.

All coaches, even your beloved Mack Brown, make bad decisions. No coach is immune from that criticism. Carroll went with what had been working, what UT apparently couldn't stop. I guess after seeing basically the same play 20 times in a row and giving up a lot of yardage - UT finally caught on and stopped it. Personnaly, I would have had Reggie in there as a decoy or as the playmaker. But, I'm not the coach.

Are you saying that Reggie wasn't working?? that UT contained him, so Carol went with someone else?? UT couldn't stop Lendale White..... a player who might not be drafted in the first round....... but could stop Reggie, the best college player ever??

Surely the only reason Lendale was successful, was because Reggie was on the field for those other, not as important moments...... but not on this one.

I guess this is the part where we should take the judgement of all the Monday morning coaches, and ignore the guy that actually gets paid, and paid well mind you, to make these decisions week in and week out.

I didn't see fans cheering us on to get a first round pick of Vince Young before the Rose Bowl. Before that almost everyone wanted the first pick so we could get Bush.

Had nothing to do with the fact that Reggie has been publicly declaring himself ready for the draft since........... what, October?? November??
Vince repeatedly said he was going to comeback to Texas, and do it all one mo 'gin?? Had nothing to do with the fact that Mack Brown has never had an underclassman leave the University of Texas before his senior year??

As a side note, I was very embarassed by the fans cheering for us to loose so we can "win" the Bush Bowl......


Or the maroon stupid juice.

hehehehehehe

Hookem Horns
04-14-2006, 01:28 AM
You know what happens when you assume...

I feel pretty safe here considering USC also wears maroon.