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pittbull
08-22-2004, 04:30 PM
It's early folks, but this kid looks lost. You should see it on TiVo! Slow motion. His foot quickness is not as advertised and the speed of the NFL game looks to really be taking him by surprise. Not only that, he's playing as if the last play is still on his mind, and he has to let it go. He's not losing the starting job with the pick invested in him, so just go out there 110%, and get after the QB kid! Otherwise, you'll be looking to survive in the league, long enough to make the minimum years to receive NFL pension! :headbang:

Nawzer
08-22-2004, 04:37 PM
I actually thought Babin played or tried hard but the Steelers just kicked our arses all over the field yesterday. Babin had like a sack yesterday and made a couple of tackles I think. It's going to take him a while, but I'm confident he'll be a good player for us.

RTP2110
08-22-2004, 05:12 PM
More than anything to me, he just looks like he is playing tenatively. My guess is that he will get past this once he gets more time in the league and develops better instincts.

JDizzle
08-22-2004, 05:15 PM
It's early folks, but this kid looks lost. You should see it on TiVo! Slow motion. His foot quickness is not as advertised and the speed of the NFL game looks to really be taking him by surprise. Not only that, he's playing as if the last play is still on his mind, and he has to let it go. He's not losing the starting job with the pick invested in him, so just go out there 110%, and get after the QB kid! Otherwise, you'll be looking to survive in the league, long enough to make the minimum years to receive NFL pension! :headbang:

He had a sack week 1 and had another one last night but got Hosed by the refs. Babin is doing just fine.

BornOrange
08-22-2004, 05:15 PM
Be a little patient. The guy only has two halves of pro experience.

edo783
08-22-2004, 05:37 PM
2 halves - 2 sacks - never played the position much - playing in the most complicated and fastest game around - yup, he's toast, better ship him out.

For crying out loud, the guy is JUST getting started. He won't even begin to hit his stride probably until next year AND it is only the second game of the freakin PRESEASON.

pittbull
08-22-2004, 06:09 PM
Just mentioning a few athletic things I saw. He just doesn't seem to have great feet. I think he will develop, but more on the lines of a Kevin Greene. Full-time pass rusher, not much else.

texasguy346
08-22-2004, 06:30 PM
Babin will be fine. I think when the regular season starts the coaches will blitz him more, and in the preseason they're trying to emphasize the coverage portion of his game. Covering a tight end or RB out of the backfield is new to Babin, and I'm sure he'll struggle with it even into the regular season. But as many have pointed out he has 2 sacks in the equivalent of one game. That's not too bad considering the Steelers O-Line dominated us last night. So he is doing well with rushing the passer, his strength, and that is the very reason we got him. Right? I was watching Babin pretty closely in this game too, but I didn't have the benefit of TiVo. He seemed more sure of himself in this game than he did against the Cowboys. He looked like he was reading the play a little better, and if getting pancaked by the Steelers O-Line was a reason for concern then we'd have alot of players to be concerned about. As long as he is improving from game to game then that is all you can ask for. I'm not sure what people were expecting when he came in. Where you expecting him to get 6 sacks a game as a rookie? I can understand people being concerned, but I really am not too worried about it. If he keeps improving he'll be fine.

BuffSoldier
08-22-2004, 07:32 PM
Ive watched both of the rookies very closely, and have taped both of the pre-season games and it has come to my attention that Babin, right now, just isnt playing at the NFL speed, which is what you would expect from someone who swithched positions as a rook. He has had problems, such as, slow footwork and letting the tackles get into his chest too easily, makeing him easy to block, but if you remember those were the 2 things that he had problems with in college. I just think that it will take Babin some time to feel comfident in the NFL, he will become more aggressive and use his speed better to beat the RTs of the ball, I think in the middle of the season everyone will se a whole new Babin show up on sundays.

TexanExile
08-22-2004, 07:56 PM
I definitely won't complain if he develops into Kevin Greene...


Check out Babin's "rookie diary" at the Chronicle website. Even he acknowledges that there are some things he needs to work on, and that he's already doing it. I have faith that this coaching staff is one of the best for a young defensive rookie to learn from. Babin will be just fine.

Mistril48
08-22-2004, 08:05 PM
I definitely won't complain if he develops into Kevin Greene...
A G R E E D!

nunusguy
08-22-2004, 08:11 PM
It's early folks, but this kid looks lost. You should see it on TiVo! Slow motion. His foot quickness is not as advertised and the speed of the NFL game looks to really be taking him by surprise. Not only that, he's playing as if the last play is still on his mind, and he has to let it go. He's not losing the starting job with the pick invested in him, so just go out there 110%, and get after the QB kid! Otherwise, you'll be looking to survive in the league, long enough to make the minimum years to receive NFL pension! :headbang:
As far as Babin's demeanor goes he does not seem to be the fiery, intense type of competitor I expected. I don't know if that's because he is tentative, even overwhelmed by the speed and complexity of the NFL game or if it's more a case of him pacing himself until he's more comfortable, more sure-footed and then is ready to turn it up a notch. Hope it's the latter.
As far as his physical abilities go I think his outside pass rush is fairly impressive - he's real quick and we saw his spin move last week, but I'm concerned about his ability to handle the TE and tackle blocking him head up
on rushing plays, this has gota make the strong side OLB tougher to play than weakside.

aj.
08-22-2004, 08:23 PM
His biggest problem right now is that he needs to shed much quicker. I agree with BuffS, when Babs engages too close to the body he gets squashed like a bug. I've seen Wade do it to him in practice numerous times. That should improve with refinement of technique and possibly even a little more upper body conditioning. One thing that I have noticed is that he is really fast in lateral pursuit but he hasn't done anything yet that made me say "wow" (like Dunta has) nor do I consider him "explosive" and you typically don't become explosive. That's one of those things you either have or you don't. He more of a fluid guy who will have to rely on technique quite a bit. ... but yes, it's early.

Regarding his demeanor, I have noticed the passive body language in camp. He doesn't appear to be a fiery guy but I'm sure he's overwhelmed at the moment and the deer in the headlights look will probably be there for a while. He looks like a typical rook who will make a few plays but also blow a few.

nunusguy
08-22-2004, 08:53 PM
Babin and Peek have similar backgrounds in the sense that they both came from a "non major league" school: Peek from Cincinatti and Babin from Western Michigan and they both played DE. This is a lead into my one big,
nagging question about Babin - what did they see and like so much about Babin that caused them to move up into the first round (at an oh so big price
that we are all very aware of by now), and yet be content to wait and take Peek when he was still available to them on the board in the third round ?
Clearly Babin is not the superior athelete, the opposite is probably the reality.
Something about leadership, the proverbial intangibles maybe (whatever intangibles are) ?
Third round pick and first round pick (even late first round) - night and day.

tana
08-22-2004, 11:05 PM
our first pick in the draft (2nd round) Ben Troupe is just as lost

He will probably be very good, but he is just not catching on at TE position.

aj.
08-22-2004, 11:09 PM
How's Starks doing? I know Schoebel is out.....then there was the Alabama guy -- Odom?

BuffSoldier
08-22-2004, 11:48 PM
our first pick in the draft (2nd round) Ben Troupe is just as lost

He will probably be very good, but he is just not catching on at TE position.


You guys got a good quality TE in the 2nd round. I was very suprised that he fell to the 2nd round, and that Ben Watson was picked over him.

To me, watching him and K2 during the season, I really didnt think that Kellen had much more athleticism. The only thing was that K2 is faster, but Troupe blocks better, both have great hands and I expect Ben to be a pro bowl caiber TE in a while.

Vinny
08-23-2004, 02:06 PM
Most of the great Steeler 3-4 linebackers of the last decade didn't even start their rookie years. I don't know why but we have a ton of Babin haters here, but its really no different than many of our other rookies we have selected. We had a ton of people bashing Pitts his rookie year. Then Gaffney got bashed by many knee-jerk fans for a while. Perhaps we are an expansion team and most of our new fans forgot the rookie learning curve for most of the players, but it sure gets old. Especially ones who traditionally take a few years to groom. We have yet to play a real NFL regular season game and many of you guys think you have seen the upside to Babin and are ready to proclaim him a dog. Rich, astute and highly insightful.

ToxicButt
08-23-2004, 02:21 PM
the first 2 games of preseason were ripe for Babin to look like **** (which he did not). the coaches only ran basic defense packages, which does not take advantage of Babin's best percieved asset - rushing the qb. let's talk after game 3, where the starters will play beyond the first half and where the coaches will game plan like it's a regular game. babin needs to shine a little, not a lot.

and he has not looked horrible. he looks like a rookie that is not sure of what he is doing. we basically know nothing except that he does have a motor, no matter where he is, how badly or well he is doing on a given play.

Blake
08-23-2004, 02:54 PM
I agree. Give the boy some time to develop. Yeah he didnt look like an all-pro, but then again, he isnt an all-pro. Hes a rookie. Lets stop bashing him and move on to something else.

kbourda
08-23-2004, 06:15 PM
I got a chance to see the Texans game again. And I kept an eye on Babin (with the help of TIVO). He doesn't look horrible. He just looks passive. I saw this one play in the second quarter where he applied the pressure and forced Roethlisberger to roll to his right with Babin in hot pursuit. Then he sees a teammate come up in support and he takes himself out of the play. That is just one example but there were several others. Just not that noticable like the one mentioned before. I think the coaches will talk to him about that.

Number19
08-23-2004, 07:55 PM
...his ability to handle the TE and tackle blocking him head up
on rushing plays...

I've had a light bulb going off the past two weeks and, not commenting on Babin but rather 3-4 OLB's in general, would like to know what you all think.

OT's are getting bigger - much bigger - 6'-6", 6'-7", 320 lbs, 330 lbs and with humongous wingspans. And they're not slow and fat - they have quick feet and agility.

I see a developing mismatch with the 3-4 OLB; typically 6'-3" or 6'-4" and 260 lbs. They're giving up 3" in height and 60 lbs. and I'm not sure speed can fully compensate for this.

I think that, at a minimum, the position is going to be much harder to play than in the past.

BornOrange
08-23-2004, 08:31 PM
I've had a light bulb going off the past two weeks and, not commenting on Babin but rather 3-4 OLB's in general, would like to know what you all think.

OT's are getting bigger - much bigger - 6'-6", 6'-7", 320 lbs, 330 lbs and with humongous wingspans. And they're not slow and fat - they have quick feet and agility.

I see a developing mismatch with the 3-4 OLB; typically 6'-3" or 6'-4" and 260 lbs. They're giving up 3" in height and 60 lbs. and I'm not sure speed can fully compensate for this.

I think that, at a minimum, the position is going to be much harder to play than in the past.
Yeah, but just as those 6-7, 330 guys are developing incredible athleticism there are similar gains in the guys who are 6-4, 260. Everyone is getting stronger and faster.

clandestin
08-23-2004, 09:28 PM
Babin and Peek seemed to be on opposite sides of the spectrum. Peek was all-out aggressive in getting to the passer, but at the sacrifice of his other responsibilites (contain, run-support, etc.) Babin on the otherhand seemed so focused on his responsibilities and not making a mistake that he didn't show any aggressiveness in his play. Good news is that both of those things should get better with more experience.

infantrycak
08-23-2004, 09:57 PM
OT's are getting bigger - much bigger - 6'-6", 6'-7", 320 lbs, 330 lbs and with humongous wingspans. And they're not slow and fat - they have quick feet and agility.

I see a developing mismatch with the 3-4 OLB; typically 6'-3" or 6'-4" and 260 lbs. They're giving up 3" in height and 60 lbs. and I'm not sure speed can fully compensate for this.

While that facially has some logic, I am not sure it bears up to actual play experience. Look at some of the top DE's at getting to the QB:

Ogunleye 260 lbs
Jason Taylor 255 lbs
Leonard Little 261 lbs
Aaron Schobel 262 lbs
Gbaja-Biamila 252 lbs
Lance Johnstone 250 lbs
Kearse 265 lbs

Livid13
08-23-2004, 10:29 PM
Guys, come on, he's a freakin' ROOKIE! He's not even out of camp yet. I used this analogy last year and think it's appropriate for the rooks, regardless if they're selected in the 1st, or 5th round, for arguments sake. I don't know about those that started their chosen profession, ie physicians, engineers, attorneys (see plumbers), corporate execs, techies, plumbers, carpenters, land men, musicians, or politician. All I can say, is that when I first started to actually WORK for a living, I knew very little about the harsh realities of the job(s). I'd like to think I'm a reasonably bright guy and as a 21 year old KID, I was insufferable....more so than now, trust me. These guys know next to NOTHING about the NFL and the level of play that is required, to be not only successful, but a star in this league. Yes, the entire team, coaching staff and equipment manager had a horrid game, especially the rookies and 2nd and 3rd stringers. I think it's safe to say that aj is one of the most objective and analytical Texans fan that posts, follows the team, attends open practices and obviously attends/watches every Texans game and then reviews it again on tape, or DVD. His post indicates what HE thinks regarding some weaknesses, in regards to Babin. He knows ALOT more than I do, when it comes to the personnel and the makeup of this VERY young team. The day I see him panic, along with Vinny, EA, CnD, Gr8, BPA and a few others, I might start to worry. Don't get me wrong, I expect alot more from the TEXANS this year, but to start ripping apart 1st/2nd rounders (as I did with Gaffney his rookie year), or scream for Palmer/Capers to go, is just plain moronic and you are reacting on a very base level. You know, EMOTIONALLY? Think of when you were 21, or 22 and walked into the office, or onto the job site for the first few weeks, months, or in some situations,were tossed into a mental ward. You were scared, confused and realized that theory, applications and hyperbole were a far cry from execution at a high level, on any kind of consistent basis. There were guys that ran circles around you, based on experience alone. Give the rooks some time. As far as the team is concerned, I'm still saying 8-9 wins, if healthy.

kbourda
08-23-2004, 11:23 PM
Hey calm down, big guy! Sounds like you are getting too personal about this subject. Some people see it like you, some people see it other ways. So be it. But I think your argument about him being a rookie holds no weight with me. Not that i'd compare this player to Babin but Kearse in his rookie year was a monster. But he could have been scared too. All this being said, I still love my Texans no matter what.

El Tejano
08-23-2004, 11:53 PM
Kearse hasn't done much after that though. I sure would like to see Babin not have a hot season like that but have 10 more seasons with us at a Pro Bowl level.

For those of us who don't like what they see out of Babin, I want yall to remember how most of you were so adimant about replacing Foreman with Wong. How many of you would like to see Wong back at his natural position now?

Give the kid some time.

rittenhouserobz
08-24-2004, 06:29 AM
I finally was able to watch the game. The score was aweful, but I thought the offense played as well as expected given the plays they had to run. I did not quite get the point of running 2nd and 16, but I am not the coach. Maybe the Steelers gameplanned for this a little more than the Texans. I could tell by that third drive that this offense is capable of moving the ball. That is all I had to see. The defense did make them punt a couple times. The most embarressing play was by Foreman when that 2nd string back brushed him off and blew bye him. I just wonder if that is a wake up for him. Realistically I would have thought he would have been meeting the rusher at the LOS instead of 5 yards past. Other than that play I will just take the game for what it is. Can't wait til Friday.

BTW Babin is a rookie. Ask me about him in week 8.

fball
08-26-2004, 02:25 PM
Babin is on the injury list WHATS THAT? They said he's is a game time descion, what's his injury?

PSL for life
08-26-2004, 02:27 PM
I see Marcus Bell was added today but can't find anything on Babin

NoBullTexan
08-26-2004, 02:48 PM
BABIN: (1) New position, (2) trying to learn his reads and the offenses he will encounter his first year, and (3), the speed of the NFL, are all daunting problems for a rook just coming into the league. Just Give Him Time! Also he will be learning from one of the best coaching staffs in the league.

BABINFAN
08-26-2004, 03:19 PM
abdominal strain..I hear he probably may not play vs Denver. Happened in the Pitt game.

Capers said linebackers Jason Babin and Antwan Peek and offensive lineman Fred Weary have practiced on a limited basis and will be game time decisions.

BABINFAN
08-26-2004, 03:32 PM
Sounds like Babin will play Friday until it starts bothering him. The game is on at 2am EST on NFL network Friday night / Saturday morning tape delay.

Meloy
08-26-2004, 04:32 PM
At least there is no pressure on Babin. The team he plays for gave up quite a bit for him, he is a rookie in 2nd preseasongame and all the fans are so understanding! I agree with edo 783, do not expect much until end of season or 2005. He has never played a full regular season game with the other starters. Now Kailee Wong? Another story! Can't make it on the left and can't make it on the right. Good at pass coverage, but that is what corners & safeties are for.

texasguy346
08-26-2004, 04:33 PM
I see Marcus Bell was added today but can't find anything on Babin

Just heard on ESPN News that Marcus Bell was placed on Injured Reserve. Guess that shoulder injury was more serious than first thought.

SBTexans08
08-26-2004, 05:10 PM
He's a rookie, what do you expect is my take on it.

He's done pretty good IMO.