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Ibar_Harry
04-11-2006, 01:27 AM
Are these the issues now facing the Texans. Today they brought in a top Defensive pick. Is this a sign that we might be thinking trade down and not taking either Young or Bush.

I'm beginning to wonder if both would literally break the bank, since we have been very active in FA. Is it possible that they are saying we have a QB, DD and Morancy, Moulds & Putzier, so offensively we are in pretty good shape. There is so much controversy about the number 1 pick that may be they have decided to try to get more for their money and trade down or at least be prepared if that option arises. I think there is tremendous anxiety in the Texans organization as to what should be done. I don't believe it is a clear cut decision.

Defensively we were hurt very badly by injuries in year 2 and have never recovered from that fiasco. Players are still recovering from that period. Perhaps we have a suitor who is willing to give us a bomb shell deal. We have seen the Texans before take a course that was a surprise. Most certainly the last two years have gone kind of against the grain, so may be they are thinking the same way this year.

After all if we could get 3 or 4 players for the number 1, we might be better off as a whole. There is no question the 2 top guys are excellent, but you have only so much money with the salary cap. We need defensive players, so I think its a real possibility. They have talked to the top 2 prospects agents and I don't think they were shy about what they were asking. If you recall the Bush press conference he did mention he wouldn't be low balled. I have a feeling there might be more to this than meets the eye.

dalemurphy
04-11-2006, 01:35 AM
Ibar, I would love to see us have 7 of the first 100 picks in this draft. Dumb luck is going to get you 3 or 4 good players. Barring injuries, the only thing that will ruin this draft for the Texans, IMO, is spending the first pick on a long holdout. I like the idea of avoiding that result even at the cost of the player that may be highest on their board.

Ibar_Harry
04-11-2006, 01:41 AM
Ibar, I would love to see us have 7 of the first 100 picks in this draft. Dumb luck is going to get you 3 or 4 good players. Barring injuries, the only thing that will ruin this draft for the Texans, IMO, is spending the first pick on a long holdout. I like the idea of avoiding that result even at the cost of the player that may be highest on their board.

I'm just getting a funny feeling about this thing. Both of these guys are looking for top dollar. I do believe Vince would be the cheaper of the 2, but given what they have done with Carr's contract I think he would have to be a whole lot cheaper. I'm simply talking economics, not skill. That's why I'm beginning to wonder about what we might do.

Add in the fact that Kubiak says use must be able to run the ball and stop the run. We had problems with stopping the run last year, but Weaver will definitely help, but we are still weak defensively. When you have 3 or 4 shots you are more likely to have success, plus you are going to pay them a whole lot less. I really think reality is setting in and that's what they are considering.

dalemurphy
04-11-2006, 01:52 AM
I hope so. I've really warmed up to the idea of drafting Bush. However, as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft. I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us. Meanwhile instead of Bush, those picks could net us something like: Jimmy Williams, Colledge, Ko Simpson... which combined with the rest of our draft 33, 65, 66, 98 would make the next few years around here a hell of a good time!

infantrycak
04-11-2006, 01:59 AM
I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us.

I would love to trade down for good value and know the value chart isn't the bible, but that is half the value according to the chart. Recently teams have paid a premium to move up rather than getting that kind of discount. On the general idea I agree though, although as AJ has pointed out, having a ton of picks coming up for contract renewal at the same time could be a serious problem down the road as well.

Ibar_Harry
04-11-2006, 02:43 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3785598.html

Here are some further comments on Willians including some comments by Bob McNair. Sounds like defense might be an issue. However, I still think money might be a big factor.

Erratic Assassin
04-11-2006, 04:12 AM
as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft.

Same here. I don't like having all that money tied up in one player. Everyone covets the #1 overall pick because it's glamorous. I'd love to trade with some ego-maniac who wants his trophy-wife player and pick up some solid players who are more of a value, while actually addressing our need positions.

Malloy
04-11-2006, 05:24 AM
Same here. I don't like having all that money tied up in one player. Everyone covets the #1 overall pick because it's glamorous. I'd love to trade with some ego-maniac who wants his trophy-wife player and pick up some solid players who are more of a value, while actually addressing our need positions.

We should give the Cowboys a call then ;)

texman8
04-11-2006, 05:29 AM
The trade down scenario ,IMO, would only work if it will guarantee getting Mario Williams or even Bush. With Saints there at #2, they could take Williams so we could lose out on him.

Which team is willing to trade up with us? Jets? Titans? Not sure these teams are willing to pay the price to do it. I don't want us to undersell our position.

As far as tying up too much money in one position.....at DE, Williams can play opposite Weaver or take his place when Weaver move inside. at RB, Bush will split his time at RB and WR. Texans can structure the #1 pick's contract to minimize cap problems by offering incentives,by backloading the deal,or by offering voidable years. I don't think money will be a major problem since McNair is willing to spend what's necessary in bonuses. We will see if Bush's agent will be unreasonable.

texman8
04-11-2006, 05:33 AM
We should give the Cowboys a call then ;)

Haha. They're going to have to give us a Ricky Williams deal (Ditka).:)

nunusguy
04-11-2006, 09:22 AM
]']If we trade to 4-5 Mario or Hawk willbe there. We really need to help our D in the draft.
Chances are Mario is a top 3, top 4 is even more certain but Hawk will very well be available at 5 and he would be a valuable addition to our D and even though LBs aren't as highly valued as DL he is such a tremendous prospect who could be the "John Vilma" of our defense, who is not only a big time palyer but the team D captain. But Hawk can play any LB position in the 4-3 (probably any LB position in the 3-4 for that matter), and he is an every down back because of his speed and athletictism.
I'm a huge Reggie fan and will be thrilled if we pick him, but I do have one real reservation about taking him with the highest draft pick - the risk of injury. Anybody is suseptible to injury in the NFL of course, but for obvious
reasons the risk is higher, probably much higher for running backs. For that reason, the right deal getting us approximate value for the #1 should be
given every consideration.

tulexan
04-11-2006, 10:21 AM
Even though the FO is saying that he isn't brought in just to gain leverage for contract negotiations, I believe he is. Bush doesn't want to go #2. Not only will he be getting a lot less money, but he will be playing in New Orleans and there is also no guarantee that he will go #2.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-11-2006, 11:37 AM
I have been saying the last 2 weeks that they need to trade down and get 3 or 4 picks for Bush, I have this gut feeling that He is going to be a HOLDOUT because everyone has made the mistake of putting this guy on a pedistal where no-onw can touch him. If you can get a team to stack the money that high to reach him, then he may walk off the pedistal and collect.

Watch, Vince young will not be going to the Titans, and will probably fall to #8 with the Raiders because I believe the teams between the Titans and the Raiders do not have the desparate need for a QB.

I know one thing, no matter where Bush ends up, I will be waiting for that one time when he meets the 260 LB in the NFL that lights his A** UP... WELCOME TO THE NFL!!! There are no Bushes in the NFL... Only OAK Trees!!!

Trenches
04-11-2006, 11:45 AM
McNair better make damn sure he is willing to pay what Bush and his agent want because this guy has been made into a football God and will settle for nothing less than being paid like one. I could see a LONG holdout if our camp wants to break him.

As far as trading down, we are not going to get 3-4 picks. Why go to #1 when you can go to #2 and get the player you want? Which, interestingly, why do you hear nothing about other teams being in love with Bush and wanting to trade up? Maybe its just me but I hear zero talk about that. IMO, having such a huge contract is going to make creating a well rounded team very tough to do.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-11-2006, 01:59 PM
McNair better make damn sure he is willing to pay what Bush and his agent want because this guy has been made into a football God and will settle for nothing less than being paid like one. I could see a LONG holdout if our camp wants to break him.

As far as trading down, we are not going to get 3-4 picks. Why go to #1 when you can go to #2 and get the player you want? Which, interestingly, why do you hear nothing about other teams being in love with Bush and wanting to trade up? Maybe its just me but I hear zero talk about that. IMO, having such a huge contract is going to make creating a well rounded team very tough to do.


Although if he is the Football God everyone has made him to be. He should be able to snap the ball to himself, throw it 30 yards downfield, block the LB and still outleap the CB for the ball and have enough energy to break it the rest of the 20-30 yards for the TD...

NOT... Let's get back to reality. Are we forgetting that football is probably the true TEAM sport today. One player does not make the team, but One player can BREAK the team. When Reggie gets this contract, years from now who is going to be able to sign him??? If he stays healthy the whole time I guarantee the team that drafts him will not be able to afford to keep him, he is not going to take a cut.

TheOgre
04-11-2006, 02:03 PM
I think our pass defense will stink this year. That will be our team weakness.

Meloy
04-11-2006, 05:26 PM
I hope so. I've really warmed up to the idea of drafting Bush. However, as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft. I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us. Meanwhile instead of Bush, those picks could net us something like: Jimmy Williams, Colledge, Ko Simpson... which combined with the rest of our draft 33, 65, 66, 98 would make the next few years around here a hell of a good time! You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-11-2006, 05:39 PM
You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.

This is just my opinion, but if I am going to pay Bush that much... 1. he is not going to do kick, and 2. he will be minimal at lining up as a WR. I am paying you to be a threatening RB, that is what he better do. We will send you in motion once and a while and you will get looks out of the backfield, but RB first.

I feel bad for the team that gets to draft him, he will not be signed by anyone by the start of training camp, and hopefully he gets into training camp.

kiwitexansfan
04-11-2006, 05:48 PM
I too have been for drafting defense, but that to me means in rounds 2-7.
Round one you have to draft a beast. Be that Bush, Young, Williams one of those guys has to be ours. If we can get that and trade down as well so be it but I don't want to shoot for the moon and have it blow up in our face

swtbound07
04-11-2006, 06:12 PM
You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.


first of all, you dont know he wont hold out. He might.

Second, I can think of 20 backs i would rather have on my team coming out of the draft than reggie bush.

in no particular order
barry sanders
gale sayers
walter payton
earl campbell
thurman thomas
ladanian tomlinson
larry johnson
jim brown
emmitt smith
priest holmes
marshall faulk
eric dickerson
shawn alexander
oj simpson
edgerrin james
terrell davis
Curtis Martin
Warrick Dunn
Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook
and as a bonus, dominack davis


I dont think Reggie is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and i dont think his pro career will revolutionize the position. Im just saying, comparing him to running backs who have had brilliant and even great careers is ridiculous. If he ever sniffs a barry sanders like rushing career i would be shocked.

tulexan
04-11-2006, 06:18 PM
This is just my opinion, but if I am going to pay Bush that much... 1. he is not going to do kick, and 2. he will be minimal at lining up as a WR. I am paying you to be a threatening RB, that is what he better do. We will send you in motion once and a while and you will get looks out of the backfield, but RB first.

I feel bad for the team that gets to draft him, he will not be signed by anyone by the start of training camp, and hopefully he gets into training camp.


Why would you limit him by not letting him be who he is. What makes Bush so dangerous is his versatility. That is like saying that you wouldn't let Dirk Nowitzki shoot 3s because that isn't what PFs do.

Trenches
04-11-2006, 06:21 PM
Why would you limit him by not letting him be who he is. What makes Bush so dangerous is his versatility. That is like saying that you wouldn't let Dirk Nowitzki shoot 3s because that isn't what PFs do.


not at all the same. dirk isnt going to get hurt shooting 3's.

I agree, though, you have to let him touch the ball however he can. Since we already have a good starting RB I guess we need to get creative.

tulexan
04-11-2006, 06:24 PM
not at all the same. dirk isnt going to get hurt shooting 3's.

I agree, though, you have to let him touch the ball however he can. Since we already have a good starting RB I guess we need to get creative.


Is Bush anymore likely to get hurt as a WR then he is as a RB? I agree that he shouldn't be returning kick offs, but I don't have a problem with him returning punts in big situations like Steve Smith or playing WR.

Trenches
04-11-2006, 06:29 PM
I guess thats the risk with this pick. The more you get creative and try to use him the more chance of injury. Maybe why some GM's dont advocate spending a first (much less a #1) round pick on a RB.

dat_boy_yec
04-11-2006, 09:30 PM
I think that Williams was brought in as a serious contender. It's a big assumption that we will take Bush and we might, but that does not change the fact that at this moment that is an assumption. As many have pointed out we have a good back already on the roster. We have DE's on the roster. Both of these guys are rare athletes and if you think about it Williams can thrive in any 4-3 defense. Bush would get the best shot at excelling here. The media may have put him on a pedestal, but he has to realize that NFL teams don't always share public perception. That perception would be totally different if our team needed a QB or a DE.

Bush says he won't play for a discount, but if he doesn't go #1 he will have to take a significant discount. The Texans do not NEED him that badly, so they could take Williams first and Bush would not go #1. Regardless of what many think Williams is also worth the #1 pick moreso than Young. Bush would be foolish to not try to work with the Texans to try to get a reasonable contract framed up before the draft. If he really wants to go first he has to compete and saying he is worth more than another player who is worthy of the 1st pick as well is a sure way to loose that opportunity.

I would be happy with either guy, it really doesn't matter to me. Williams brings balance between the offense and defense for the Texans and Bush brings an upgrade to the offense. As far as the money is concerned I think the main sticking point won't be the total amount paid, but more like the guaranteed money.

MorKnolle
04-11-2006, 10:59 PM
The trade down scenario ,IMO, would only work if it will guarantee getting Mario Williams or even Bush. With Saints there at #2, they could take Williams so we could lose out on him.

Which team is willing to trade up with us? Jets? Titans? Not sure these teams are willing to pay the price to do it. I don't want us to undersell our position.

As far as tying up too much money in one position.....at DE, Williams can play opposite Weaver or take his place when Weaver move inside. at RB, Bush will split his time at RB and WR. Texans can structure the #1 pick's contract to minimize cap problems by offering incentives,by backloading the deal,or by offering voidable years. I don't think money will be a major problem since McNair is willing to spend what's necessary in bonuses. We will see if Bush's agent will be unreasonable.

Agreed, after going 2-14 and having the unenviable distinction of being the worst team in the NFL, we have to come away from this draft with Mario or Bush. It is rare for a single draft to have both the best offensive and defensive player to come out in several years, and with these two great players available, we need to either grab the best offensive or the best defensive player in this draft. Mario Williams is the safest pick in this draft as he likely will have the biggest immediate impact and has as much upside potential as anyone available, he just hasn't been in the spotlight as much as Bush and Vince.

McNair better make damn sure he is willing to pay what Bush and his agent want because this guy has been made into a football God and will settle for nothing less than being paid like one. I could see a LONG holdout if our camp wants to break him.

As far as trading down, we are not going to get 3-4 picks. Why go to #1 when you can go to #2 and get the player you want? Which, interestingly, why do you hear nothing about other teams being in love with Bush and wanting to trade up? Maybe its just me but I hear zero talk about that. IMO, having such a huge contract is going to make creating a well rounded team very tough to do.

Whoever the Texans draft they are going to be well under way in contract negoatiations before the draft and will probably have them signed to a contract already, if not they should be able to within a week. I am just as worried, if not more worried, about Vince Young demanding a ton of money than I am about Bush wanting too much.

You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.

I don't think Bush is considered the best prospect in history, but he's certainly very highly rated. I do agree that we need to stay in the top 3-4 picks in the draft so we can get Bush or Mario out of it and trading down to #18 absolutely will not and should not happen.

I think that Williams was brought in as a serious contender. It's a big assumption that we will take Bush and we might, but that does not change the fact that at this moment that is an assumption. As many have pointed out we have a good back already on the roster. We have DE's on the roster. Both of these guys are rare athletes and if you think about it Williams can thrive in any 4-3 defense. Bush would get the best shot at excelling here. The media may have put him on a pedestal, but he has to realize that NFL teams don't always share public perception. That perception would be totally different if our team needed a QB or a DE.

Bush says he won't play for a discount, but if he doesn't go #1 he will have to take a significant discount. The Texans do not NEED him that badly, so they could take Williams first and Bush would not go #1. Regardless of what many think Williams is also worth the #1 pick moreso than Young. Bush would be foolish to not try to work with the Texans to try to get a reasonable contract framed up before the draft. If he really wants to go first he has to compete and saying he is worth more than another player who is worthy of the 1st pick as well is a sure way to loose that opportunity.

I would be happy with either guy, it really doesn't matter to me. Williams brings balance between the offense and defense for the Texans and Bush brings an upgrade to the offense. As far as the money is concerned I think the main sticking point won't be the total amount paid, but more like the guaranteed money.

I totally agree.

Ibar_Harry
04-12-2006, 02:32 AM
No comment!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3788165.html

HJam72
04-12-2006, 04:29 AM
It is rare for a single draft to have both the best offensive and defensive player to come out in several years...

Are we really sure that other fans around the country are as impressed with this year's selection of draftees as we are? I mean it seems like we have by far the best draft coming up of all time. Surely, some of these players aren't going to live up to the hype.

PS-Not picking on you MorKnolle, just using one of many statements by many posters I've heard for months that either imply or flat out state that this is a real phenomenon.

texman8
04-12-2006, 06:32 AM
I too have been for drafting defense, but that to me means in rounds 2-7.
Round one you have to draft a beast. Be that Bush, Young, Williams one of those guys has to be ours. If we can get that and trade down as well so be it but I don't want to shoot for the moon and have it blow up in our face

I found this in yahoo search on NFL rookie salaries. It gives details on rookie contracts for each team for that year,(2003)

#1 Carson Palmer QB Bengals

signing bonus: 10.1 million
7 yrs.- 21.7 mil
6 yrs.- 49 mil inc. all bonuses and incentives
Cap charge : 2.5 mil

#2 Charlie Rogers WR Lions

signing bonus: 9.1 million
7 yrs. - 20.4 million
voidable 6 yrs. -19.56 mil

#3 Andre Johnson WR Texans

signing bonus: 9 million
7 yrs. - 20.1 mil
6 yrs. - 39 mil
Cap Charge: 2,285,200 mil

#4 Dewayne Robertson DT Jets

Signing Bonus: 3 million
7yrs. 24,58 million

#5 Terence Newman CB Cowboys

signing bonus: 6.5 million
7 yrs - 33 million
Cap charge: 2.041 million

It seems Lions and Jets made out with their deals. Lions haven't gotten anything from Rogers.

Last year, Alex Smith got like a 20 mil signing bonus from 49ers.

Normally, QB is more compensated than any other position. We shall see if Bush's agent pushes for more than Smith got last year.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-12-2006, 09:19 AM
Why would you limit him by not letting him be who he is. What makes Bush so dangerous is his versatility. That is like saying that you wouldn't let Dirk Nowitzki shoot 3s because that isn't what PFs do.

I did not say never, but you would not subject your guy to getting blindsided or laid out to catch a pass with Ray lewis in the middle or som other guy.

good point about dirk, but I do not think I lay my $100M man and lose him for a season ending injury when I have acquired more than capable WRs and TEs in the off season to carry the load and by adding those players makes Reggie even more of a threat.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-12-2006, 09:28 AM
I found this in yahoo search on NFL rookie salaries. It gives details on rookie contracts for each team for that year,(2003)

#1 Carson Palmer QB Bengals

signing bonus: 10.1 million
7 yrs.- 21.7 mil
6 yrs.- 49 mil inc. all bonuses and incentives
Cap charge : 2.5 mil

#2 Charlie Rogers WR Lions

signing bonus: 9.1 million
7 yrs. - 20.4 million
voidable 6 yrs. -19.56 mil

#3 Andre Johnson WR Texans

signing bonus: 9 million
7 yrs. - 20.1 mil
6 yrs. - 39 mil
Cap Charge: 2,285,200 mil

#4 Dewayne Robertson DT Jets

Signing Bonus: 3 million
7yrs. 24,58 million

#5 Terence Newman CB Cowboys

signing bonus: 6.5 million
7 yrs - 33 million
Cap charge: 2.041 million

It seems Lions and Jets made out with their deals. Lions haven't gotten anything from Rogers.

Last year, Alex Smith got like a 20 mil signing bonus from 49ers.

Normally, QB is more compensated than any other position. We shall see if Bush's agent pushes for more than Smith got last year.

I think Bush will as for as much if not a little more than Smith. The reason? Everyone has made Bush out to be this Greatest Player in NCAA History coming out this year. Smith has not produced and Bush "will" be able to produce and make and impact on any team he goes to.

I think he is going to be looking for "HOMERUN" money out of this draft.

swtbound07
04-12-2006, 10:46 AM
first of all, you dont know he wont hold out. He might.

Second, I can think of 20 backs i would rather have on my team coming out of the draft than reggie bush.

in no particular order
barry sanders
gale sayers
walter payton
earl campbell
thurman thomas
ladanian tomlinson
larry johnson
jim brown
emmitt smith
priest holmes
marshall faulk
eric dickerson
shawn alexander
oj simpson
edgerrin james
terrell davis
Curtis Martin
Warrick Dunn
Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook
and as a bonus, dominack davis


I dont think Reggie is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and i dont think his pro career will revolutionize the position. Im just saying, comparing him to running backs who have had brilliant and even great careers is ridiculous. If he ever sniffs a barry sanders like rushing career i would be shocked.

Negative rep?? Where is the suprised smiley face.

Meloy
04-12-2006, 11:29 AM
This is just my opinion, but if I am going to pay Bush that much... 1. he is not going to do kick, and 2. he will be minimal at lining up as a WR. I am paying you to be a threatening RB, that is what he better do. We will send you in motion once and a while and you will get looks out of the backfield, but RB first.

I feel bad for the team that gets to draft him, he will not be signed by anyone by the start of training camp, and hopefully he gets into training camp. I too would not have Bush return kicks, but end arounds and as a wide out or slot going to the side line @ 4.30 speed? Yeah I think he'll get a few yards. I do not understand the noise about him not going up the middle. The trend in NFL seems to be for backs to go outside tackles or slip past the dline for 5-8 yards receiving.

Meloy
04-12-2006, 11:41 AM
first of all, you dont know he wont hold out. He might.

Second, I can think of 20 backs i would rather have on my team coming out of the draft than reggie bush.

in no particular order
barry sanders
gale sayers
walter payton
earl campbell
thurman thomas
ladanian tomlinson
larry johnson
jim brown
emmitt smith
priest holmes
marshall faulk
eric dickerson
shawn alexander
oj simpson
edgerrin james
terrell davis
Curtis Martin
Warrick Dunn
Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook
and as a bonus, dominack davis


I dont think Reggie is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and i dont think his pro career will revolutionize the position. Im just saying, comparing him to running backs who have had brilliant and even great careers is ridiculous. If he ever sniffs a barry sanders like rushing career i would be shocked.
Thanks for your opinion and that is just what it is like my opinion. Whose opinion should count are those in the NFL being paid to know football. As I am sure you know, the ones saying he is best "prospect" coming out in NFL history are NFL types and probably have more knowledge than you or I. Your list is after the fact & none IMO came out with hype that Bush has except maybe Campbell. Is it possible that 2 years from now, Bush ranks with those on your list? He is being compared to Faulk and Sanders by NFL guys. That is how all draft picks are looked at, by comparisons.

swtbound07
04-12-2006, 01:47 PM
Thanks for your opinion and that is just what it is like my opinion. Whose opinion should count are those in the NFL being paid to know football. As I am sure you know, the ones saying he is best "prospect" coming out in NFL history are NFL types and probably have more knowledge than you or I. Your list is after the fact & none IMO came out with hype that Bush has except maybe Campbell. Is it possible that 2 years from now, Bush ranks with those on your list? He is being compared to Faulk and Sanders by NFL guys. That is how all draft picks are looked at, by comparisons.


the tendency right now is to sensationalize.. We want to rush to judge things as "the greatest ever". Perfect example being the USC team of recent lore. People called them the greatest team ever, a dynasty, and it was clearly not true. People are calling Bush the greatest to come out in 20 years....its just HYPE. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan, the next Tiger Woods, the next Venus or Serena...somebody to come out and revolutionize the game. Do I think Bush is that player? No. Do I think that means he can't necessarily suceed in the NFL? Time will tell.....but this greatest ever stuff just reeks to me of people seeing what they want to see. Mario Williams is the next great revolutionary DE...He's Dwight Freeney, He's Julius Peppers, he is the whole cookie. DBrick is a revolutionary lineman, a franchise cornerstone. Vince Young is a quarterback that has never existed before.

4 Players with serious hype right now...almost legendary hype. Realistically, all four wont turn out to be THAT good. Peter Warrick was blazing fast and supposed to be the next Randy Moss when he got drafted #4. Did he live up to his hype? Not a chance. We all want to witness greatness, especially on our team. But the scouts dont have any more crystal balls then the rest of us.

Kaiser Toro
04-12-2006, 02:00 PM
This is a little dated, but a post that speaks to the delta of dollars spent on D and O. I will be updating sometime soon since we have signed more players since then, including Moulds.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=300318#post300318

Meloy
04-12-2006, 05:21 PM
the tendency right now is to sensationalize.. We want to rush to judge things as "the greatest ever". Perfect example being the USC team of recent lore. People called them the greatest team ever, a dynasty, and it was clearly not true. People are calling Bush the greatest to come out in 20 years....its just HYPE. Everybody wants the next Michael Jordan, the next Tiger Woods, the next Venus or Serena...somebody to come out and revolutionize the game. Do I think Bush is that player? No. Do I think that means he can't necessarily suceed in the NFL? Time will tell.....but this greatest ever stuff just reeks to me of people seeing what they want to see. Mario Williams is the next great revolutionary DE...He's Dwight Freeney, He's Julius Peppers, he is the whole cookie. DBrick is a revolutionary lineman, a franchise cornerstone. Vince Young is a quarterback that has never existed before.

4 Players with serious hype right now...almost legendary hype. Realistically, all four wont turn out to be THAT good. Peter Warrick was blazing fast and supposed to be the next Randy Moss when he got drafted #4. Did he live up to his hype? Not a chance. We all want to witness greatness, especially on our team. But the scouts dont have any more crystal balls then the rest of us. We agree. However, if that is the reference point used by most, we can voice that same reference point. I am just glad that since we are 2-14 and have the # 1 pick, there are numerous options for the fans to contemplate. Can't say the same for the round ball team in Htown.

Marcus
04-12-2006, 07:59 PM
This is just my opinion, but if I am going to pay Bush that much... 1. he is not going to do kick, and 2. he will be minimal at lining up as a WR. I am paying you to be a threatening RB, that is what he better do. We will send you in motion once and a while and you will get looks out of the backfield, but RB first.

Now, why should he not line up at wide receiver. He's got 4.3 speed, has got excellent hands, and does his best in open field running. If you got DD at RB, AJ on one side, Moulds on the other, and Reggie in the slot, don't you see a matchup problem there? He should be used where his talents can be best applied. If that's at receiver, then so be it.

Enough of this fitting a square peg in to round hole.:hairpull:

Runner
04-12-2006, 08:05 PM
Enough of this fitting a square peg in to round hole.

Agreed. We have a new coaching staff. I have a feeling we'll play to our players' strengths, not weaknesses.

Apparently some people don't agree with that approach.

Seņor Stan
04-12-2006, 08:08 PM
Now, why should he not line up at wide receiver. He's got 4.3 speed, has got excellent hands, and does his best in open field running. If you got DD at RB, AJ on one side, Moulds on the other, and Reggie in the slot, don't you see a matchup problem there? He should be used where his talents can be best applied. If that's at receiver, then so be it.

Enough of this fitting a square peg in to round hole.:hairpull:

He also does a remarkable job adjusting to the ball after it is in the air. He nees to be in the mix as a receiver every once in a while. He is not being paid "to be a threatening RB." He will get paid to be a playmaker.

From the backfield
Returning punts
and as a receiver.

Heck, he may even throw one.

Meloy
04-13-2006, 03:47 PM
He also does a remarkable job adjusting to the ball after it is in the air. He nees to be in the mix as a receiver every once in a while. He is not being paid "to be a threatening RB." He will get paid to be a playmaker.

From the backfield
Returning punts
and as a receiver.

Heck, he may even throw one. " a threatening running back" hmm. I like that. I agree that he will definitely be a playmaker. He reminds me of those guys over the years, usually kick returners, that could take the ball to the end zone on any play. Those guys keep fannies in seats. May hurt concessions however.