PDA

View Full Version : Mario Williams # 1 ?


The Dude Abides
04-10-2006, 01:10 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3782968.html


North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, the top defensive player in the draft, is coming to Houston today to visit with the Texans.
The Texans insisted Sunday they are serious about taking Williams, who is rated as a better prospect than Julius Peppers, the defensive end taken second by Carolina in 2002. The Texans are ready to start contract negotiations. Under NFL rules, they can negotiate with any players they're considering drafting with the top pick April 29. They can negotiate with Williams, Reggie Bush and Vince Young and sign one before the draft.
Although left defensive end Anthony Weaver was their top priority in free agency, and Antwan Peek should be ideal for right end in the 4-3, the Texans insist that bringing in Williams isn't a ploy to help them sign Bush, who's expected to be the top pick.
The Texans have agreed to contract terms with veteran safety Michael Stone, who played at New England last season.
Stone gives the Texans a veteran safety to replace Marcus Coleman. He'll compete with C.C. Brown and Glenn Earl for playing time.


They are covering all their bases as they should.

kiwitexansfan
04-10-2006, 02:35 AM
I for one am glad that they are bringing him in. I hope they will think long and hard about drafting him too. Even at the #1 spot.

I was thinking about this today, do we have even one defender that another team sees on the depth chart and they go "oh no" about??

Some might say Robison but do other teams think that or do we just cling to him because he is the closest thing we have to a decent defensive presence.

HJam72
04-10-2006, 03:26 AM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of D-Rob because all they have to do is not throw to his side of the field if he starts to dominate, but that's not his fault. It's not like he's Sanders in his prime though. We can't just let him go 1:1 on any receiver, no matter what the route is, and let the safety help somebody else, allowing an extra LB to blitz, etc. I would hate to see the Texans spend that prized #1 pick on anyone but Bush (or if we were looking at QBs). I guess it could turn out to be worth it, but where was all the Williams, Hawk, Fergason for #1 talk all year long? I think it started with people looking at alternatives just out of curiosity and now people are taking the idea too seriously. Now, a Trade Down would make me real happy and, although I'd like to see a LT out of it, I could live with this guy.

PS-It's good that they're looking at him though. That never hurts.

Frank_The_Tank
04-10-2006, 03:26 AM
He clould def. upgrade this D. I wish they would also bring in A.J. Hawk, and Mike Huff.

Runner
04-10-2006, 06:10 AM
It sure takes a while for our crack media team to notice anything that doesn't involve Bush and Young.

Even if they are already sold on Bush, they should still look at other players in case they get that godfather trade deal. This is a good move.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 06:45 AM
This is why I told all the fellow Bush campers not to think it was a foregone conclusion that Bush would be a Texan. I do think we will regret not taking Bush:twocents:

YoungTexanFan
04-10-2006, 07:22 AM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of D-Rob because all they have to do is not throw to his side of the field if he starts to dominate, but that's not his fault. It's not like he's Sanders in his prime though. We can't just let him go 1:1 on any receiver, no matter what the route is, and let the safety help somebody else, allowing an extra LB to blitz, etc. I would hate to see the Texans spend that prized #1 pick on anyone but Bush (or if we were looking at QBs). I guess it could turn out to be worth it, but where was all the Williams, Hawk, Fergason for #1 talk all year long? I think it started with people looking at alternatives just out of curiosity and now people are taking the idea too seriously. Now, a Trade Down would make me real happy and, although I'd like to see a LT out of it, I could live with this guy.

PS-It's good that they're looking at him though. That never hurts.

The talk has been there all year long, it has just been drowned out by the bush/young debate. I, for example, have supported D'brick/Mario at #1 before and still do.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 08:17 AM
John McClain is on 610 right now & he claims this is all "posturing" by the Texans front office & that they will take Bush. Take that for what it's worth:twocents:

TexansFanatic
04-10-2006, 08:37 AM
The Chron indicates the Texans are not only working out Mario Williams but are talking contract with his agent....

Will anyone be happy if this guy really becomes the # 1 pick?

Grid
04-10-2006, 08:40 AM
I would be happy with Williams, yes.

hot pickle
04-10-2006, 08:42 AM
i would be happy with mario, but happier with bush, talent like bush rarely comes around

nunusguy
04-10-2006, 08:47 AM
i would be happy with mario, but happier with bush, talent like bush rarely comes around
Bush is clearly the BPA in this Draft, or last years Draft, or probably the 2004
Draft also, etc. But there is still a possibility for a godfather offer, therefor
we need a back-up plan for the BPA on the Board if picking at 4 or 5 or whatever. Therefor good idea to look at other top picks just in case.

gtexan02
04-10-2006, 08:51 AM
Texans | Team to have pre-draft visit with M. Williams
Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:22:41 -0700

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the Houston Texans will conduct a pre-draft visit with North Carolina State DE Mario Williams Monday, April 10. The Texans insisted Sunday, April 9, they are serious about taking Williams. Under NFL rules, they can negotiate with any players they're considering drafting with the top pick April 29. They can negotiate with Williams, USC RB Reggie Bush and Texas QB Vince Young and sign one before the NFL Draft.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 08:55 AM
The Chron indicates the Texans are not only working out Mario Williams but are talking contract with his agent....

Will anyone be happy if this guy really becomes the # 1 pick?

With the #1 pick? absolutely not.

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 08:56 AM
I am not surprised, but there are many on this board that will be. Good to see we are seriously considering the BPA for our need not necessarily the draft.

We cannot go wrong with Reggie Bush or Williams.

done88
04-10-2006, 09:00 AM
Simmply a contract ploy. If they were going to go after Williams they would be better off to trade the pick and try to get Williams also. Bush's agent is asking for more thenthe Texans think he should. They thought that by bringing in Youn it would put pressure on Bush to lower his demands. Since that did not work they are tryiong to gain leverage through Williams. It's how business is done.

SteelBlueToro
04-10-2006, 09:00 AM
If they draft Williams it will be if they trade down.

Farough
04-10-2006, 09:02 AM
I wouldnt mind it at all!... either Williams or Bush at #1 and ill be perfectly happy.

TEXANRED
04-10-2006, 09:06 AM
If they draft Williams it will be if they trade down.
I don't think you can sign him then trade down.

I would love, love, love, Mario Williams. Hate to see Bush let go but Defense wins championships.

powerfuldragon
04-10-2006, 09:15 AM
i would be happy with mario, but happier with bush, talent like bush rarely comes around

This man is correct.

edo783
04-10-2006, 09:23 AM
Just due dillegence IMO. They have to have a plan for a player to pick if someone does come along and offers a trade down that they should take. It also helps with the Reggie negotiations as it provides options that are truly a real option to do with the #1 if needed.

utahmark
04-10-2006, 09:30 AM
If they draft Williams it will be if they trade down.

the saints will take williams at number 2. so i dont think thats much of a possibility.

Runner
04-10-2006, 09:34 AM
Bush's agent is asking for more thenthe Texans think he should.

This statement is based on what?

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 09:37 AM
For those of you who are just coming out of the VY/RB debate cave there is another prospect in the draft named Mario Williams who most people agree is one of the top two prospects in the draft. Moreover, we have spent an awful lot of money on the offense. It will be intersting to see how much of Kubiak's ear Richard Smith has and what Sherman is recommending to Kubiak.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9278724

http://gopack.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/williams_mario00.html

bckey
04-10-2006, 09:40 AM
The Texans aren't going to negotiate a contract with someone they plan to trade down for. They can only negotiate from a #1 pick standpoint at this time. It could be that Bush is asking way too much and the Texans don't realisticly think they can afford him and still be able to fill needs over the coming years. Or it could be what others are saying that Mario is a ploy to drive Bush's price down. If we do draft Bush then Domanick should be traded because the one/two punch is going to be Bush/Cook.

I will be happy with Bush/Williams/Young at #1 but anything other than Bush at #1 is not bpa.

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 09:47 AM
I will be happy with Bush/Williams/Young at #1 but anything other than Bush at #1 is not bpa.

Why is that significant?

dwilt72
04-10-2006, 09:57 AM
Just a ploy by the Texans. Possibly to scare Reggie into taking less money or scaring teams that are interested in Williams into making a monster trade to try to get him.

jerek
04-10-2006, 09:59 AM
I for one hope the FO has the balls to take Mario Williams. Sure, the papers and a bunch of the pundits will all ***** about it for a little while as the "unglamorous pick," but bottom line I think he is a dominant, "once-in-a-lifetime" defensive prospect that would force opposing coaches and O-lines to gameplan around the guy. Considering his measurables all top Julius Peppers', I think we would be foolish to not give him serious consideration, and I will go so far as to say I think we should draft him, though I still understand and endorse the appeal of Bush.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 10:12 AM
I am all for drafting for Needs. But passing on Reggie Bush to draft a needs player to me has Sam Bowie/Portland Trailblazers written all over it...:twocents:

Koolbrz
04-10-2006, 10:18 AM
This is why I told all the fellow Bush campers not to think it was a foregone conclusion that Bush would be a Texan. I do think we will regret not taking Bush:twocents:


I agree. I would have to hate faceing this guy two times a yr. and possibly in the playoffs. He would definitley be a thorn in the Texans side. In all honesty, i would rather face VY than Bush.

Grid
04-10-2006, 10:19 AM
I am all for drafting for Needs. But passing on Reggie Bush to draft a needs player to me has Sam Bowie/Portland Trailblazers written all over it...:twocents:

Hakeem Olajuwan

Im for Bush or Williams.. I think they both have the potential to be game changers at the pro level.

Errant Hothy
04-10-2006, 10:27 AM
I'd before either Bush or Williams, Bush @ the first spot with Williams the likely target if we traded down.

The Saints have changed all this, and now I'd be ok with e either Willimas or Bush at teh #1 spot.

I think the depth at OL is pushing Ferguson down the board.

jerek
04-10-2006, 10:28 AM
I am all for drafting for Needs. But passing on Reggie Bush to draft a needs player to me has Sam Bowie/Portland Trailblazers written all over it...:twocents:

Okay ... I understand. Bush fan. But let's please:

(a) Quit pretending that we somehow know Bush is assured of Michael Jordan status type success in the NFL. I like the guy as much as anyone else, and in drafting him we assume he will have a long and prosperous career ahead of him. But you are going just a little far here in ascribing that level of guarantee to his success.

(b) Many would say that Mario Williams -- though the less glamorous choice -- is equally a once-in-a-generation type defensive prospect. We are talking a stronger, faster, Julius Peppers here, whom many scouting departments in the country are very, very high on. Yes, his name is not Vince Young and it's not Reggie Bush, but do not think for a moment that just because you haven't read about him ten times a day for the last four months that he is not a serious baller. He is.

Okay, got that out.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 10:30 AM
Hakeem Olajuwan

Im for Bush or Williams.. I think they both have the potential to be game changers at the pro level.

2 Championships vs. 6 Championships. Which would you choose?

CoastalTexan
04-10-2006, 10:37 AM
Mario is a monster, he would be the game changer on defense. He would cause fear in the offenses just like bush would in the defenses. Either one and we would be good. Would you rather have Babin or Peek on the right side or a Julius Peppers clone?

bckey
04-10-2006, 10:47 AM
What would we do with Peek and Babin if we did draft Williams?

gtexan02
04-10-2006, 10:51 AM
Here are Julius Pepper's stats for last year, compared to averages:

tackles:50 (49.5)
sacks: 10.5 (10)
Forced fumbles: 2 (3.5)
Ints: 0 (0.75)

Is he good? Definitely. Is he a gamechanger on every play? Probably not. I think we can find our "Julius Pepper's" clone somewhere else, personally. I don't think 10 sacks should be all that impossible to achieve for a DE in a 4-3 scheme, and none of his other stats (tackles, forced fumbles, ints, etc) are that impressive. There were 16 players last year who had 10 or more sacks. Maybe he commands a lot of double teams and what not, but even so, Carolina ranked 7th in total defensive sacks compared to our 14th (not that huge of a jump, and only a difference of 8 take downs).

I don't know, I like Williams, but unless he's better than Peppers, I don't think we need to spend our #1 overall pick on the guy. 2 DL players in 2 years 1st rounds in a row? And when you already rank 14th in sacks the previous season? Seems wasteful

jerek
04-10-2006, 10:58 AM
Here are Julius Pepper's stats for last year, compared to averages:

tackles:50 (49.5)
sacks: 10.5 (10)
Forced fumbles: 2 (3.5)
Ints: 0 (0.75)

Is he good? Definitely. Is he a gamechanger on every play? Probably not. I think we can find our "Julius Pepper's" clone somewhere else, personally. I don't think 10 sacks should be all that impossible to achieve for a DE in a 4-3 scheme, and none of his other stats (tackles, forced fumbles, ints, etc) are that impressive. There were 16 players last year who had 10 or more sacks. Maybe he commands a lot of double teams and what not, but even so, Carolina ranked 7th in total defensive sacks compared to our 14th (not that huge of a jump, and only a difference of 8 take downs).

I don't know, I like Williams, but unless he's better than Peppers, I don't think we need to spend our #1 overall pick on the guy. 2 DL players in 2 years 1st rounds in a row? And when you already rank 14th in sacks the previous season? Seems wasteful

Travis Johnson was exceedingly a wasted pick, you'll get no argument on me from that. Past that, Williams measurables are all better than Peppers. He is an absolute freak of nature and the very best athlete in this entire draft. I don't have the #'s with me (on my home PC) but I will get them for you later tonight.

From a pure needs standpoint, the argument is probably a little better for Bush, though again we have done a lot to address the O this offseason while doing less to address the D and specifically the D-line. IMO adding either Bush or Williams isn't overkill, since both are phenomenal prospects.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 11:01 AM
& the $12 million we just gave Weaver is for him to sit the bench? I see us taking Ferguson before Williams.:twocents:

jerek
04-10-2006, 11:02 AM
& the $12 million we just gave Weaver is for him to sit the bench? I see us taking Ferguson before Williams.:twocents:

? Of course not. We play 2 DEs. Which means Robaire either plays DT or takes a seat.

infantrycak
04-10-2006, 11:03 AM
& the $12 million we just gave Weaver is for him to sit the bench? I see us taking Ferguson before Williams.:twocents:

There are 2 DE positions. If the Texans drafted Williams, he and Weaver would fill them.

Dunta_23
04-10-2006, 11:32 AM
Okay ... I understand. Bush fan. But let's please:

(a) Quit pretending that we somehow know Bush is assured of Michael Jordan status type success in the NFL. I like the guy as much as anyone else, and in drafting him we assume he will have a long and prosperous career ahead of him. But you are going just a little far here in ascribing that level of guarantee to his success.

(b) Many would say that Mario Williams -- though the less glamorous choice -- is equally a once-in-a-generation type defensive prospect. We are talking a stronger, faster, Julius Peppers here, whom many scouting departments in the country are very, very high on. Yes, his name is not Vince Young and it's not Reggie Bush, but do not think for a moment that just because you haven't read about him ten times a day for the last four months that he is not a serious baller. He is.

Okay, got that out.

I think the real big thing about Reggie is his work eithic whether its in the game, training, film etc...he is a HARD WORKER....Mario Williams is a great player, no doubt about it....BUT....some people have doubted his motor and intensity on every play of the game...I read somewhere that the past 2 years he hasnt even been the best rated D-Lineman on his team...That went to Lawson...Mario has the ability to be a force and dominate...he just has to to do it on every down...

AtheGreat
04-10-2006, 12:10 PM
Correct me if im wrong, but i remember, in a 610 interview, Casserly saying there was no way we'd get Mario.:hmmm: This sounds like a ploy to get Reggie to sweat a little bit, contract-wise. I wouldn't take this too serious.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Correct me if im wrong, but i remember, in a 610 interview, Casserly saying there was no way we'd get Mario.:hmmm: This sounds like a ploy to get Reggie to sweat a little bit, contract-wise. I wouldn't take this too serious.

I, for one, Hope you are correct:ok:

Ibar_Harry
04-10-2006, 01:03 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3782968.html

May be we won't take Bush or Young. Actually it might get rid of the Bush vs Young thing for the Texans. We are weakest at Defense at this point in time and could make a lot of sense. Probably a whole lot cheaper to, but I'm guessing on that.

bad
04-10-2006, 01:11 PM
There's a thread concerning this issue in the Draft forum.

It's just the Texans doing their due diligence. No way we take Williams with the #1 pick.

bckey
04-10-2006, 01:11 PM
removed

jerek
04-10-2006, 01:17 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3782968.html

May be we won't take Bush or Young. Actually it might get rid of the Bush vs Young thing for the Texans. We are weakest at Defense at this point in time and could make a lot of sense. Probably a whole lot cheaper to, but I'm guessing on that.

Traditionally, DEs are paid very similarly to RB by draft order, as it is one of the most in-demand "skill positions." I.e. Bush vs Williams taken at the #1 will have very similar salaries, though I am hearing Bush's agent intends to play hardball and get the team for every last penny.

infantrycak
04-10-2006, 01:30 PM
Traditionally, DEs are paid very similarly to RB by draft order, as it is one of the most in-demand "skill positions." I.e. Bush vs Williams taken at the #1 will have very similar salaries, though I am hearing Bush's agent intends to play hardball and get the team for every last penny.

I agree with your by draft order statement. In the NFL, DE's are actually considerably more highly paid than RB's as demonstrated by the franchise tag numbers--$8.3 mil for DE's and $6 mil for RB's. Of all the positions under consideration, RB, DE and QB--if one were to get a discount vs. the draft position (which IMO will not happen) it would be RB.

Porky
04-10-2006, 01:55 PM
Yawn. Other than making KT wet his pants, this is about as meaningful as teats on a boar. Bush was, is, and will be the pick at #1.

dalemurphy
04-10-2006, 01:55 PM
2 Championships vs. 6 Championships. Which would you choose?


would you argue that Olajuwon was a bad pick? I believe that's the point. If we draft Mario Williams and Bush ends up being the best player in the history of the NFL and Mario Williams only ends up being in the class of Bruce Smith and Reggie White- many of us could still live with that.

The Dude Abides
04-10-2006, 02:03 PM
would you argue that Olajuwon was a bad pick? I believe that's the point. If we draft Mario Williams and Bush ends up being the best player in the history of the NFL and Mario Williams only ends up being in the class of Bruce Smith and Reggie White- many of us could still live with that.

I think if Mario Williams led us to win some Super Bowl's most fans would turn their back on Reggie Bush. Same thing with Vince Young. Winning cures most people's problems.

The reason didn't take MJ was because they had a guy who played the same position in Clyde Drexler. They chose to not take the BPA because of a positional need. Same thing happened in this past NBA draft in the opposite way. The Hawks took the BPA(Marvin Williams) over a need (Paul). Right now with Paul winning the ROY award and Harrison slowly coming on, Paul looks like the better pick. 5 years from now might be a different story if the Hawks can get a PG to play along side Harrington(if re-signed), Williams, and Joe Johnson.

I'm one of the guys who is for the BPA available. However, with the fact that the Texans have an adequate RB, I've been leaning towards trading down a few spots and getting Williams. I will stick with the thought that we need more help on Defense than on offense but a talent like Bush will be to much for me to pass on in the end. :twocents:

PokerStar
04-10-2006, 02:12 PM
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. That is according to a good many NFL scouts and personel people, but will the Texans or other top 3 teams take him. Saints general manager said they will be looking at him very heavily if they cannot move and Jamaal Brown will be making the transition to LT, this was said on NFL Network. If we took Mario we have one of those scary defenses that offenses will fear. If we take Bush the same can be said about the offense. Bottomline both are great players and we cant go wrong with either.

jerek
04-10-2006, 02:29 PM
Yawn. Other than making KT wet his pants, this is about as meaningful as teats on a boar. Bush was, is, and will be the pick at #1.

Teats on a boar ... hahahahaha.

Still, don't be so easily convinced buddy. Realistically I don't see us not taking Bush, but don't forget, this is still one half of the administration that brought you Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. I know that the #1 is inherently less suspenseful and easier to predict at because we have literally whoever we want ... but it's getting a bit presumptious on here with a lot of time to go.

Ain't over until it's over.

jerek
04-10-2006, 02:31 PM
I agree with your by draft order statement. In the NFL, DE's are actually considerably more highly paid than RB's as demonstrated by the franchise tag numbers--$8.3 mil for DE's and $6 mil for RB's. Of all the positions under consideration, RB, DE and QB--if one were to get a discount vs. the draft position (which IMO will not happen) it would be RB.

Thanks for putting some teeth in it. I was trying to think of some numbers to prove it, but you saved me the effort.

bad
04-10-2006, 03:16 PM
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. You must be looking at a different Internet than the one I'm looking at.http://www.rocketpillow.com/bs/img/bfelix.gif

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 03:22 PM
You must be looking at a different Internet than the one I'm looking at.http://www.rocketpillow.com/bs/img/bfelix.gif

Really. If you go to HailRedskins webpage ( http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm ) They have links to almost every single Mock Draft on the net & only ONE has Reggie NOT going number one. Mario Williams, right? Nope. Ferguson. Mario is the highest rated DEFENSIVE player in the draft. Reggie is the highest rated OVERALL player in the draft:twocents:

Even if you disagree, you should check out some of those Mock Drafts. Pretty interesting what some of them say about us.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 03:27 PM
Emailed Charlie Palillo about this.

How certain are you that we are taking Reggie? Won't lie to you, the Mario Williams article in the chronicle made me think a little. Even though Mario would be great, he is no Reggie. In talent, or marketability (In my opinion). Thanks.


His reply:

Just for show with Williams.

CP

Take it for what you will...:ok:

Grid
04-10-2006, 03:36 PM
2 Championships vs. 6 Championships. Which would you choose?

I choose one championship. Thats all I need at this point.

Besides, its a pointless debate. For all we know, Williams is the Michael Jordan in this draft.

kiwitexansfan
04-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Really. If you go to HailRedskins webpage ( http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm ) They have links to almost every single Mock Draft on the net & only ONE has Reggie NOT going number one. Mario Williams, right? Nope. Ferguson. Mario is the highest rated DEFENSIVE player in the draft. Reggie is the highest rated OVERALL player in the draft:twocents:

Even if you disagree, you should check out some of those Mock Drafts. Pretty interesting what some of them say about us.

Mock Drafts aren't assessments of who is the best player it is who John Doe thinks is going to be taken by what team. It is something quite different to a pure ranking of who is the best player out there. Given that you can't say Reggie Bush is the best player because everyone is convinced the Texans will take him.

dat_boy_yec
04-10-2006, 07:35 PM
I for one am glad they are looking at Super Mario. Bush and Williams are the 2 top talents in this yrs. draft I don't know why everybody has Young in the same category as these 2 freaks. Both of them have to be respected and gameplaned for. Both of these guys will have an immediate impact. Both of these guys command less than QB's as far as positions go anyways. It's like this draft is just putting out the option for us. Excel in defense or offense? You can't go wrong with either of these 2 guys.

Ok, now that my spiel is over I thought I would comment on their rarity. The once in a lifetime factor. Williams is in the same category as Julius Peppers don't get it confused. Williams may have a slight edge over Peppers, but it's not enough to consider him more elite. So that would lead me to believe Williams is a once in every five years player. I'll go a step further though there is another freak of nature at the DE position coming out in next yrs. draft. Carriker, I think his first name is Adam, but it escapes my memory at the moment. Anyways this guy is 6'6'' and weighs 295 lbs. he's been clocked at 4.68 in the forty. The knock on him is injuries, but if he's healthy all next yr. he could probably put up quite a yr. and be the next Williams. I guess the point I want to make is Williams is not as once in a lifetime as you would be led to believe. In the span of 5 yrs. there have been 2 other guys that are comparable to Williams.

With Bush you really don't have that. Well, this ones been argued enough so I guess I'll leave this alone for now.

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 09:07 PM
Yawn. Other than making KT wet his pants, this is about as meaningful as teats on a boar. Bush was, is, and will be the pick at #1.

There was a snarf involved with a grande caramel macchiato when I read that story this morning.

MorKnolle
04-10-2006, 10:43 PM
The Chron indicates the Texans are not only working out Mario Williams but are talking contract with his agent....

Will anyone be happy if this guy really becomes the # 1 pick?

Absolutely, he is easily the best defensive player in this draft, he's rated higher than Julius Peppers was (who was arguably deserving of the #1 pick in 2002), and I think he is definitely the rookie that will have the biggest immediate impact next season and has just as much if not more upside potential as anyone else in this draft.

Bush is clearly the BPA in this Draft, or last years Draft, or probably the 2004
Draft also, etc. But there is still a possibility for a godfather offer, therefor
we need a back-up plan for the BPA on the Board if picking at 4 or 5 or whatever. Therefor good idea to look at other top picks just in case.

There are some scouts around the league that have Mario rated higher than Bush, and I was told by a knowledgeable and reliable source that one team in the league actually has Mario rated higher than Bush. Bush is clearly the best offensive player in this draft, and Mario is clearly the best defensive player. I honestly think Mario would have a bigger impact on most teams than Bush would (including ours, especially with Kubiak's system).

The Texans aren't going to negotiate a contract with someone they plan to trade down for. They can only negotiate from a #1 pick standpoint at this time. It could be that Bush is asking way too much and the Texans don't realisticly think they can afford him and still be able to fill needs over the coming years. Or it could be what others are saying that Mario is a ploy to drive Bush's price down. If we do draft Bush then Domanick should be traded because the one/two punch is going to be Bush/Cook.

I will be happy with Bush/Williams/Young at #1 but anything other than Bush at #1 is not bpa.

Again, many people would argue (myself included) that Mario Williams is the BPA in this draft and the best fit for the Texans. It basically boils down to whether the Texans want to take the best offensive player (Bush) to add to their revamped offense (and new system) or the best defensive player (Mario) to terrorize opposing offenses.

MorKnolle
04-10-2006, 10:47 PM
What would we do with Peek and Babin if we did draft Williams?

Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.

Here are Julius Pepper's stats for last year, compared to averages:

tackles:50 (49.5)
sacks: 10.5 (10)
Forced fumbles: 2 (3.5)
Ints: 0 (0.75)

Is he good? Definitely. Is he a gamechanger on every play? Probably not. I think we can find our "Julius Pepper's" clone somewhere else, personally. I don't think 10 sacks should be all that impossible to achieve for a DE in a 4-3 scheme, and none of his other stats (tackles, forced fumbles, ints, etc) are that impressive. There were 16 players last year who had 10 or more sacks. Maybe he commands a lot of double teams and what not, but even so, Carolina ranked 7th in total defensive sacks compared to our 14th (not that huge of a jump, and only a difference of 8 take downs).

I don't know, I like Williams, but unless he's better than Peppers, I don't think we need to spend our #1 overall pick on the guy. 2 DL players in 2 years 1st rounds in a row? And when you already rank 14th in sacks the previous season? Seems wasteful

Mario is largely regarded as already being rated higher than Julius Peppers was when he came out, plus Mario is 12 lbs. heavier and a lot stronger than Peppers so he can be a more effective LE (if they choose to play him there) and be a better runstopper while being just as effective of a pass rusher.

& the $12 million we just gave Weaver is for him to sit the bench? I see us taking Ferguson before Williams.:twocents:

Drafting Mario does not mean Weaver goes to the bench, Weaver could move inside to DT (and presumably cut Seth Payne) or Mario could be our RE and relocate Peek to the bench. I doubt the Texans are even considering D'Brickashaw Ferguson at this point.

I think the real big thing about Reggie is his work eithic whether its in the game, training, film etc...he is a HARD WORKER....Mario Williams is a great player, no doubt about it....BUT....some people have doubted his motor and intensity on every play of the game...I read somewhere that the past 2 years he hasnt even been the best rated D-Lineman on his team...That went to Lawson...Mario has the ability to be a force and dominate...he just has to to do it on every down...

The 4 games I've seen of Mario I didn't see him really take any plays off, and the vast majority of the success that Lawson had was because Mario was drawing all the double teams and most opposing teams designed their plays away from Mario's side and right into Lawson. Even still, Mario put up better stats than Lawson this year.

Correct me if im wrong, but i remember, in a 610 interview, Casserly saying there was no way we'd get Mario.:hmmm: This sounds like a ploy to get Reggie to sweat a little bit, contract-wise. I wouldn't take this too serious.

I have never heard this, so I don't know.

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.
That sure sounds like making a whole whole lot of adjustments when we could just draft Reggie & let everyone play their natural positions. Just my take...

MorKnolle
04-10-2006, 10:53 PM
That sure sounds like making a whole whole lot of adjustments when we could just draft Reggie & let everyone play their natural positions. Just my take...

It's not really a bunch of adjustments our team would have to make, it's giving the opposing offense a bunch of different looks and different packages and confusing them.

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 10:55 PM
Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.

You blinded me with science.

MorKnolle
04-10-2006, 10:55 PM
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. That is according to a good many NFL scouts and personel people, but will the Texans or other top 3 teams take him. Saints general manager said they will be looking at him very heavily if they cannot move and Jamaal Brown will be making the transition to LT, this was said on NFL Network. If we took Mario we have one of those scary defenses that offenses will fear. If we take Bush the same can be said about the offense. Bottomline both are great players and we cant go wrong with either.

I couldn't agree more.

infantrycak
04-10-2006, 11:14 PM
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. That is according to a good many NFL scouts and personel people...

Really?--can you provide a link to anyone saying this?

Trapped
04-10-2006, 11:20 PM
Really?--can you provide a link to anyone saying this?
I would like a link too, cuz on every website BUSH is the consensus top rated player.

dalemurphy
04-11-2006, 12:19 AM
I'm not sure if Mario is the best pick or not. I do know this: the most fun I have watching football is when my team is beating the hell out of the opposing QB. I will never complain about my team acquiring talented defensive linemen. Arguably, with the combination of Weaver, Mario, Robaire, Travis Johnson, and Payne we would not only be able to rush the passer but should be incredibly stout against the run. Man, it's exciting to think about that!

beerlover
04-11-2006, 01:19 AM
I would only consider Mario in a trade down scenero, both VY & Bush should be considered first with D'Brick a distant 3rd :rolleyes:

HJam72
04-11-2006, 01:29 AM
I would only consider Mario in a trade down scenero, both VY & Bush should be considered first with D'Brick a distant 3rd :rolleyes:


Matt Leinhart. :)

Janus3
04-11-2006, 02:22 AM
I would only consider Mario in a trade down scenero, both VY & Bush should be considered first with D'Brick a distant 3rd :rolleyes:

vy belongs somewhere in the teens. d'brick, bush, leinart, cutler, williams, and hawk are all better fits in houston.

stevo3883
04-11-2006, 11:33 AM
imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.

tulexan
04-11-2006, 12:57 PM
I haven't seen Mario play that much. I've seen him a few games, but he never really amazed me like when you watch some of the other big prospects (Bush, Young, Hawk, Davis). The ACC was a pretty weak offensive conference. There were a bunch of teams that had great defenses, but the only good offense in the ACC was Virginia Tech and against VT he didn't do much. In fact they played the first game of the season (Vick's first start) and he didn't even have a sack against him. Lawson and a LB had a few, but Williams didn't do much at all. Williams had a great end of the season, but in the first 5 games he only had 1 sack. He had great games against Southern Miss and Maryland, but other than that his numbers weren't unbelievable. I think he is going to be a great player and deserves to be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't pick him at #1.

jerek
04-11-2006, 01:04 PM
imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.

I agree with the tools comment but IMO, D-Line is primarily defined by "tools." We aren't talking QBs that must possess vast skill sets and intelligence to make right reads, we aren't talking WR/TEs that must possess good blocking or catching techniques. I know that I am simplifying the position, but DE is pretty much, "go get the QB," with simple basics like bull rushing, swim moves, and then minor variation to the rush thrown in. The "tools" that Williams possesses arguably will allow him to absolutely dominate at the next level.

My concern about Williams is that he appeared to take plays off occasionally in college. I can somewhat agree with the fluidity aspect you speak of, but IMO he is a beast who can overcome opposing blockers with ease. He just didn't appear to have his head in the game on every single play.

AJExplosion80
04-11-2006, 02:18 PM
I think if Reggie and his agent try to get us to make a really high contract for him like it is sounding I would really like us to try and trade down if possible. I don't feel like getting into a long drawn out contract discussion (I.E. Cedric Benson) and we seen how that turned out. I would not mind Super Mario but think trading down would be best option and get who is left at the place we move down to.:stirpot:

bckey
04-11-2006, 02:54 PM
I think the Texans are set on Reggie Bush at #1 and the only thing that could change that is Reggie demanding to be paid like he already is the best rb in the nfl before playing a down or a huge offer from another team wanting to trade up. It is a little alarming that no other team even seems interested in making a move up for Reggie seeing how much the media and draft mongers have hyped him up. You would think that a once in a generation player like Bush (according to the RB nut huggers) that Casserly's phone wouldn't stop ringing. I think he is a great talent but I wouldn't put the Texans salary cap in jeopardy to sign him. Shaun Alexnder signed an 8 year $62 million deal. Is Bush worth that before he ever plays a down in the nfl?

TexanFan881
04-11-2006, 02:58 PM
I think our Dline is fine, we already invested last year's pick in a DLineman. I think Reggie will make more of an immediate impact than Mario. We spent a lot of money on Weaver and Babin and Peek are good players for us. 2 Back sets are more common in the NFL now and Reggie and DD would be great for us. He's a great player I just don't see why we'd need him so bad.

MorKnolle
04-11-2006, 11:11 PM
I haven't seen Mario play that much. I've seen him a few games, but he never really amazed me like when you watch some of the other big prospects (Bush, Young, Hawk, Davis). The ACC was a pretty weak offensive conference. There were a bunch of teams that had great defenses, but the only good offense in the ACC was Virginia Tech and against VT he didn't do much. In fact they played the first game of the season (Vick's first start) and he didn't even have a sack against him. Lawson and a LB had a few, but Williams didn't do much at all. Williams had a great end of the season, but in the first 5 games he only had 1 sack. He had great games against Southern Miss and Maryland, but other than that his numbers weren't unbelievable. I think he is going to be a great player and deserves to be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't pick him at #1.

If you watch the game closely and understand how defense works, you'll see how disruptive Mario was. He didn't have a sack against Florida State or Virginia Tech but he was a moajor disruptive force in both of those games, and most of Lawson's sacks on the year were because Mario chased the QB into Lawson. My personal favorite games of his on the year were Maryland (4 sacks) and Florida State (0 sacks, but a ton of penetration into the backfield and strong against the run, constant disruption of the opposing offense).

imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.

Peppers does move more fluidly right now, but Mario is still as fast and explosive and is much stronger, and once he improves his techniques some and learns to use his size and athleticism more he should be a phenomenal force on the DLine.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3785598.html

"We had a very good visit with him," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said. "He's worthy of the first pick in the draft. The guy has excellent talent to play the run and rush the passer. He has alll the measurables you're looking for. He's productive, has a high motor, and he has not reached his potential." - Charley Casserly

El Amigo Invisible
04-11-2006, 11:23 PM
I think our Dline is fine, we already invested last year's pick in a DLineman. I think Reggie will make more of an immediate impact than Mario. We spent a lot of money on Weaver and Babin and Peek are good players for us. 2 Back sets are more common in the NFL now and Reggie and DD would be great for us. He's a great player I just don't see why we'd need him so bad.


I was alittle shocked too. Why is noone interested in trading up for RB if he is so special? I was really shocked to hear that after alll the praise he has received.I thought the Jets might need him for sure .

LikeABoss
04-11-2006, 11:29 PM
You know, I'm slowly warming up to the idea of the Saints taking Mario at #2 if we don't find any trade partners:hmmm: Mario and Will Smith would give oppossing offenses some serious problems:hmmm: Yeah, I'm on the draft Mario Williams @ #2 bandwagon now. Charles Grant can take his inconsistency, and poor work ethic somewhere else now. Make it happen coach Payton:cool:

thunderkyss
04-12-2006, 05:11 PM
..... with Mario Williams...... I've been hearing it all day on ESPN..... PTI, the Last Word, now, SportsCenter, where their Football guy says the Texans are indeed talking to Mario Williams, and they said they are talking Contract......

He said it's just Houston trying to gain a little leverage so Reggie doesn't ask for QB money, which the little guy says Reggie is looking for. Which is why Reggie is visiting other teams..... along with keeping his name in the news, he wants to keep his value up.

Again, this guy says the Titans VP/Gm favors Vince..... norm Chow favors Lienart....... the GM trumps Chow, so Matt has to work his way back into the #3 spot.

Texans86
04-12-2006, 05:15 PM
Being the first pick in the draft has its advantages. One of them being that they can start contract negotiations with as many players as they'd like. Mario Williams has a legitimate shot at number one, and therefore deserves to have a contract offered to him. Who we take is another story.

thunderkyss
04-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Here's a link to a chron article..... About the same thing (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3782968.html)


the ESPN dude is named Clayton...... John Clayton.

4Texans
04-12-2006, 07:17 PM
Mario Williams and the Texans. Did anyone else hear this on the 6:00 news? Bob Allen said sources have told him that Bush want's #1 QB money, so their negotiating with Williams Agent.

Could be a smoke screen...... Could be their just testing the waters..... maybe a trade in the works.... who knows!

I love this stuff!

TexanSam
04-12-2006, 07:19 PM
The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush? I know I would be upset. Some Texans fans already haven't renewed their season tickets. Even more won't renew them should they not get Bush. It's just a ploy...I hope.

mexican_texan
04-12-2006, 07:20 PM
The Texans are negotiating with Mario Williams, Vince Young, and Reggie Bush. Since they have the first overall pick, they can negotiate with potential players. The money these guys want can affect their stock.

TexanFan881
04-12-2006, 07:20 PM
It's got to be a smoke screen to try and make the saints or another team to trade up to get mario.

TexanSam
04-12-2006, 07:22 PM
Maybe Casserly really will draft Mario Williams just to try and make the majority of the fanbase angry. Everyone will want his head on a stick and he'll go take the NFL VP job or whatever it is. Darn you Casserly! :sarcasm:

Mike Kerns
04-12-2006, 07:32 PM
Is Bush worth that before he ever plays a down in the nfl?

I remember a few years back saying something very similar about LeBron James.

kiwitexansfan
04-12-2006, 07:32 PM
Due diligence being performed by the front office. It is a good thing.

I wonder if you could offer a discount to get a team to draft you over another guy....

I realise that this is unlikely since the whole thing about going number one is the paycheck but intriguing none the less.

Perhaps a home town discount.....
:stirpot:

tulexan
04-12-2006, 08:37 PM
This is just the front office doing their homework and putting pressure on Reggie to lower his price. Face it, Reggie wants #1 money, if he doesn't get drafted #1 he will lose a lot of money and possibly will go to a situation that isn't as good as the Texans (NOLA).

MorKnolle
04-12-2006, 10:34 PM
The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush? I know I would be upset. Some Texans fans already haven't renewed their season tickets. Even more won't renew them should they not get Bush. It's just a ploy...I hope.

Last I checked there was an 8 year waiting list for season tickets, so hopefully we take Mario (my #1 guy in the draft anyways) and a bunch of the people ahead of me in line drop out so I can get tickets sooner. I for one would like to see the Texans show the they have the balls to make a move like this if they believe it is in the best interest of the team rather than sticking with Bush since he is the popular consensus pick.

bckey
04-13-2006, 12:38 AM
Last I checked there was an 8 year waiting list for season tickets.

That just isn't true. I paid $10 last year to get on a list for season tickets. The Texans set a time to call and you have to pay half up front if you decide you like the seats. I turned down the seats they offered last year. I already got another letter for this year to call on April 17. I don't have the money this year so I won't even call at my allotted time. But the point is they do have season tickets available.

threetoedpete
04-13-2006, 12:52 AM
Bush is clearly the BPA in this Draft, or last years Draft, or probably the 2004
Draft also, etc. But there is still a possibility for a godfather offer, therefor
we need a back-up plan for the BPA on the Board if picking at 4 or 5 or whatever. Therefor good idea to look at other top picks just in case.

Yeah well, if the kid asks for seventy million with thirty up front we'll see. Nothing is a lock yet. I'm not a big Mario supporter. I keep hearing Peppers name
with his. Now i loved Ole Lawrence Marshal in Hempstaed...But nobody is going to tell there wasn't a dimes bit of difference between Bruce Smith and Ray Childress. Childress was a good blue chip pro. Smith is a HOFer. That being said, Mario fits a hole. And he's the second best player in the draft. I could live with the pick.

thunderkyss
04-13-2006, 10:05 AM
The Texans are negotiating with Mario Williams, Vince Young, and Reggie Bush. Since they have the first overall pick, they can negotiate with potential players. The money these guys want can affect their stock.

Not true, there have been no reports, zero of any contract negotiations with Vince or Reggie......... so far to date, only Mario.



The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush?

Suck it up?? I'd be Peaved, if the Texans pay a RB #1 QB money without playing the first down. Epecially when he's going to be part of a two back system.

That just isn't true. I paid $10 last year to get on a list for season tickets. The Texans set a time to call and you have to pay half up front if you decide you like the seats. I turned down the seats they offered last year. I already got another letter for this year to call on April 17. I don't have the money this year so I won't even call at my allotted time. But the point is they do have season tickets available.

I got on the PSL season ticket waiting list two, maybe three months ago. I recieved my letter to call them yesterday @ 4:40 p.m. . I called to tell them to take me off the list since I've acquired PSLs & tickets through this MB.

bckey
04-13-2006, 12:36 PM
I got on the PSL season ticket waiting list two, maybe three months ago. I recieved my letter to call them yesterday @ 4:40 p.m. . I called to tell them to take me off the list since I've acquired PSLs & tickets through this MB.


Glad you got some thunderkyss. I'm going to make a serious run at some next year. Just couldn't afford it this year. I am going to the Texans/Cowboys game in Dallas though and I'll probably get tickets off ebay for one of our home games also. Tailgating at Reliant is just plain awesome.

The problem I have is that I have to drive roundtrip from Corpus Christi. I will probably sell half my season tickets and make 4 games when I get them.

Mr. White
04-13-2006, 01:00 PM
Judging from the hype, I'm thinking that Bush is looking to be the highest paid draft pick ever. And he'll probably get it. Not sure that it's gonna be us paying him, though.

infantrycak
04-13-2006, 01:25 PM
Judging from the hype, I'm thinking that Bush is looking to be the highest paid draft pick ever. And he'll probably get it.

Why is this surprising to anyone? Every year the #1 draft pick is the highest paid rookie ever. They take last year's deal and add 7-15% depending on how the cap has moved and negotiations.

Texas_Thrill
04-13-2006, 06:14 PM
I'd totally take Mario with the #1 overall. ......I mean if we could go back and take PEPPERS over Carr I'd do that still.

thunderkyss
04-14-2006, 01:04 AM
Watching NFL Network again.......... thinking about free agency..... Moulds, Putz, Cook, DD, AJ, Mathis, Armstrong....... Wow, I'm saying to myself... wow...... David can throw for 3500 yards, despite 44 sacks, when he has AJ performing like a probowler, a pass cathing tight end, and DD and company doing their thing.

Imagine DD behind a real zone blocking line........ imagine Carr with a 3500 yard passing season..... imagine AJ, & Moulds going to the Probowl..... imagine our TE with 700, 800 recieveing yards........

Anthony Weaver putting Tiki Barber on his rump.... making Fred Taylor retire.... showing south side Jerome how we do it on the south side..... and stumping Corey Dillon in the backfield.

Dunta Shutting out T.O.......... Showing Philly they still don't have a #1...... discombobulating Santana Moss........ & Helping Plaxico to a long, long, bad day.

Then imagine.....


Super Mario making Peyton eat dirt, twice a game, three times a game 2 games a year, chasing Vince in his babyblues out of bounds with the ball behind the L.O.S., Breaking Leftwiches foot again, making McNabb blow chunks on the sideline.....


oooooooooooohhhhhh........ weeeeeee......... we playing football now boys.....

Texas_Thrill
04-19-2006, 03:34 PM
Totally no point to this posting other than to say DRAFT SUPER MARIO!!!!