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Texans_Chick
04-10-2006, 01:16 AM
Different teams have different points of view of how they use preseason games.

Some hide more and some don't care how much they show.

Some try harder to win, and some are just using this to evaluate scrubs and hope that nobody gets hurt.

Some think that the preseason has no meaning and some try to use it to get the team some momentum.

Does anyone know what Denver's (theoretically also Kubiak's) philosophy is on the preseason??? I was just wondering how much of the real thing we are gonna see preseason.

Last year the Texans looked beyond incompetent in the preseason. Some said, don't worry it's just the preseason. Then the same sort of incompetance carried over to the season and then some.

I will ask my Bronco friends.

Texas
04-10-2006, 01:27 AM
Kubiak will go into the pre-season with 100%...He needs all the players to play there asses off because we have so much depth we needa know who to start when the season comes ar ound. Hes not familiar enough with most of the t eam to justl eave it relaxed.

infantrycak
04-10-2006, 01:36 AM
Does anyone know what Denver's (theoretically also Kubiak's) philosophy is on the preseason??? I was just wondering how much of the real thing we are gonna see preseason.

Because someone asked in another thread I looked it up and last year the Broncos only used 2 QB's in preseason and the #2 took 2/3rds of the snaps. I wouldn't expect that to be the case this year with Kubiak on a new team and trying to get Carr into a new system/comfort level, but there probably won't be a lot of stats for the 3rd QB coming out of camp unless they are unsure of #2 vs. #3.

Doom Capers
04-10-2006, 01:43 AM
Kubiak will go into the pre-season with 100%...He needs all the players to play there asses off because we have so much depth we needa know who to start when the season comes ar ound. Hes not familiar enough with most of the t eam to justl eave it relaxed.


what?

Capster67
04-10-2006, 12:47 PM
As someone who has lived in Denver the past 7 years, the Broncos always seem to have a winning preseason record. All credible franchises know that winning (preseason, regular season, post season) matters if you want to build an aura of a winning team. Here's a link to a great article on NFL.com that points to the importance of winning preseason games.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7552424

Ibar_Harry
04-10-2006, 01:57 PM
As someone who has lived in Denver the past 7 years, the Broncos always seem to have a winning preseason record. All credible franchises know that winning (preseason, regular season, post season) matters if you want to build an aura of a winning team. Here's a link to a great article on NFL.com that points to the importance of winning preseason games.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7552424

I guess we should look at the W-L record at the end of preseason and see who's headed to the SB or at least who isn't. Our preseason last year sort of predicted our season.

Texans_Chick
04-10-2006, 03:50 PM
As someone who has lived in Denver the past 7 years, the Broncos always seem to have a winning preseason record. All credible franchises know that winning (preseason, regular season, post season) matters if you want to build an aura of a winning team. Here's a link to a great article on NFL.com that points to the importance of winning preseason games.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/7552424


Two quotes stand out of that article to me:

"There are certain things you can do in preseason to establish the foundation of your football team," said Houston Texans head coach Dom Capers. "We place great value on the development of our team through the use of preseason games."

Oopsy, I guess.

Mike Shanahan, Denver Broncos: "As a coaching staff, preseason games are an important part of our evaluation process. Not only do they give our veteran players a good opportunity to work together in a game situation, but they give us a great chance to take a look at our rookies and younger players, to see how they respond in a game setting. Any time you can see how a guy responds and how he handles himself in that situation, it helps your evaluation that much more. I think the fans get excited about seeing these new players for the first time. You're seeing guys competing and playing their hearts out to try to earn a spot on the roster."

I have to say I am REALLY interested in our preseason games: 1. New system, new players, old players in new system; 2. they are our only night games, so we got to tear it up on the tailgate. (wish the second game wasn't a Thursday night).

BradK10
04-10-2006, 04:50 PM
i think the reason van pelt saw so much time at QB in the preseason last year was because they didnt have a solid #2 guy and needed to see what he was capable of

GP
04-10-2006, 06:23 PM
I'm no pro coach, but if it were me.......

I'd play to win. Winning is contagious, even in "meaningless" games.

If you got drubbed every preseason game, and then you're heading into a "real" game...how much are you really sure of yourself?

I'm a conservative guy by nature, but when it comes to sports...you gotta' know how to lay it all on the line in competition. And I just think Capers always felt that the safest route to go was with a very conservative attitude that always kept the players "in check" so he could be proud of his squeaky clean club where everybody respects everybody and sometimes you just come out on the losing end of the score sometimes because that other team just wanted it more (sound like those old, tired coach cliches doesn't it?).

The decisions to kick a field goal and to NOT go for a TD when we needed two TDs to win, with a FG not even really helping, was just proof that he couldn't overcome his own conservative philosophy even when the math added up in such a way that it's obvious a FG AND a TD was useless...that's "if" the goal is to win the game, which I think is how they determine who goes to the playoffs, etc.

I hope Kubiak puts it all on the line and we win every preseason game, or we at least try to win the game. I think it's crucial to regular season success.

Speedy
04-10-2006, 07:53 PM
The win/loss record in pre-season is meaningless because it's a totally different game. You don't game plan the same way as you would in a regular season game. Your starters don't play the entire game. You might have 75 players play in a pre-season game. It's not the same.

Only FOUR of the 12 teams that made the playoffs last year had winning pre-season records, with the Colts going 0-5. In '04 only TWO playoff teams had winning pre-season records, with the Super Bowl champions going 1-3. On the other end in '04, of the 7 teams that finished the regular season with 5 wins or less, 4 of them went 3-1 in the pre-season.

The W/L record is meaningless.

edo783
04-10-2006, 09:04 PM
The W/L record is meaningless.

This is true statement for teams that are estabilished and have had success, but IMO for a team trying to get used to winning and developing some confidence, I think the pre-season can set the tone of play for perhaps the first 2-3 games. I and others have said before that this team hasn't shown any teath and that they seem to be studing the game rather than playing it and I think that directly relates to Capers tone of play and how Fangio and Pendry operated. I suspect that they will try and set a bit of a team tone that is more agreesive this year.

Capster67
04-10-2006, 09:15 PM
I totally agree with Edo. Successful franchises establish a winning culture; and the efforts to do so don't start on the first week of the regular season. The effort has to start on the first day of training camp and run through all games (preseason and regular season). I think any organization that is okay with losing at any level needs to look at itself in the mirror.

Double Barrel
04-10-2006, 09:25 PM
While preseason wins can be fool's gold...

I think the attitude of taking those four games seriously and trying to win them can translate to momentum into the beginning of the regular season. Good coaches never want to lose a game, even if they are meaningless with regards to stats. I'd imagine that good players would feel the same way, too.

What I'm looking for more than anything during our pre-season is fire. Regardless of how they actually play and the outcomes of the games, I want to see a competitive spirit and aggressive desire to win...which is something we haven't seen in awhile around here.

Wharton
04-10-2006, 09:27 PM
I think winning preseason games means more to a 2-14 team then it does to a 14-2 team.

I suspect Kubs will want to win every game he can to build team continuity and spirit!

:)

Speedy
04-10-2006, 11:35 PM
Successful franchises establish a winning culture; and the efforts to do so don't start on the first week of the regular season.
Again, Colts, a successful franchise, 0-5 this past pre-season. New England, a successful franchise, Super Bowl champs 2 years ago, 1-3 in pre-season that same year. The W/L record does not matter in pre-season. What matters is how your first unit performs when they are TOGETHER in those games. When your 2nd and 3rd units come onto the field.....do you see the difference right there? Your entire 2nd and 3rd units will never be on the field in a regular season game. Just because your 2nd unit looks shaky and doesn't march down the field and losses the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, doesn't mean that your backups suck. In pre-season, you get your starters working toward getting on the same page, you look for other players to step up and perform, you put players in certain situations to see how they perform. You've got players on the field in those games who will be cut after the game. IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME. Yeah, it's always nice to win at whatever you do, and when you're doing whatever it is you do, you always want to win, and of course it's good for fans to leave the stadium after a win, but winning and losing in pre-season is NOT a precursor of how your season is going to go. Never has been, never will be.

If wins and losses mean anything in the pre-season then we need to have a pre-season Super Bowl before the season starts. I mean how else are we going to know who the best team in August is?

Geez....seems like every year there's this discussion.

Kaiser Toro
04-10-2006, 11:44 PM
You play to win on every down when your job is on the line. This is how it has to be played this year. Kubiak needs to have a coaching opportunity for each player on each play to break them down and build them into a unit.

We still have high priced question marks, we need to see them; we have a new look defense, our guys need the reps; we have an awful passing attack that we need to see gel and execute a new playbook.

The preseason matters to the Texans perhaps more than any other club this year.

GP
04-11-2006, 12:05 AM
Geez....seems like every year there's this discussion.

Yup. And it'll be this way until we have some regular success like other more well-established franchises who can afford to take four games off before the season starts because they got their stuff together.

This team has yet to show anybody that it's a threat in PRESEASON or REGULAR SEASON. Would be kinda' nice for our guys to walk into the regular season opener with some swagger as if they truly felt they could play with any other team on any given Sunday.

That debacle in Buffalo was so blatantly easy to predict. I harped on our team's attitude toward preseason the whole way...you could just see that the coaches really didn't take it seriously. It was as if they truly thought the boys would muster up that magic "when the games really began to count for something..."

Heck, even our QB had that attitude. Remember after the TB pre-season game? Carr says something along the lines of, "...I just know we're glad to get these preseason games behind us so we can start focusing on the real games that count..." (yawn) Guess that strategy didn't work. And he was just parroting what the team's coaching staff had promoted.

The whole thing was just a colossal disaster.

So, "yes," we'll be talking about our team's preseason philosophy because up to now it's just been a pretty good indicator of what we have to look forward to all regular season. The day those guys have put up 2 or 3 or 4 winning seasons with solid showings will be the day I think we can take a break on this topic.

Roughnecks
04-11-2006, 12:16 AM
I really do not care if we win or lose in preseason that is as long as that the guys give it there all and you know what I mean. How many times starting in the preseason have we sat back and said out loud, very loud ****** here we go again and we know how the season is going to turn out. All I want to see is them drive down the field not to end up losing the ball or having 1st and 10 on the opp 30 only to get sacked 2 times make it 3rd and 27 and the next play be a draw or screen and how about a couple of three and outs in a row on D that would be up lifting but most of all please no one get hurt.

HJam72
04-11-2006, 02:27 AM
I think going undefeated in the preseason would make it awfully hard to take when you lose and go 0-1. I think it's important to try and win a couple and then concentrate on the other things if you get it done early. It's probably not good to be undefeated or winless in the preseason.

Malloy
04-11-2006, 03:02 AM
The preseason matters to the Texans perhaps more than any other club this year.


Jackpot!

texman8
04-11-2006, 05:52 AM
You play to win on every down when your job is on the line. This is how it has to be played this year. Kubiak needs to have a coaching opportunity for each player on each play to break them down and build them into a unit.

We still have high priced question marks, we need to see them; we have a new look defense, our guys need the reps; we have an awful passing attack that we need to see gel and execute a new playbook.

The preseason matters to the Texans perhaps more than any other club this year.

I'm hoping Kubiak will approach this preseason differently. Since Texans have made numerous changes in personnel ,they need to play together more to get familiar with scheme and to better mesh together. In last preseason game,I hope Texans won't go Capers' way and play first unit one drive and out. Besides,it will be boring to watch backups.:ok:

Ibar_Harry
04-11-2006, 07:46 AM
I'm hoping Kubiak will approach this preseason differently. Since Texans have made numerous changes in personnel ,they need to play together more to get familiar with scheme and to better mesh together. In last preseason game,I hope Texans won't go Capers' way and play first unit one drive and out. Besides,it will be boring to watch backups.:ok:

I would hope with new players and coaches the 1st string ( Whatever ) will play a whole lot longer. They will need to do so to get their timing down. However, you do not want to give away all of what you are going to do. We want to save some of that for Philly and Indy.

tsip
04-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Again, Colts, a successful franchise, 0-5 this past pre-season. New England, a successful franchise, Super Bowl champs 2 years ago, 1-3 in pre-season that same year. The W/L record does not matter in pre-season. What matters is how your first unit performs when they are TOGETHER in those games. When your 2nd and 3rd units come onto the field.....do you see the difference right there? Your entire 2nd and 3rd units will never be on the field in a regular season game. Just because your 2nd unit looks shaky and doesn't march down the field and losses the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, doesn't mean that your backups suck. In pre-season, you get your starters working toward getting on the same page, you look for other players to step up and perform, you put players in certain situations to see how they perform. You've got players on the field in those games who will be cut after the game. IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME. Yeah, it's always nice to win at whatever you do, and when you're doing whatever it is you do, you always want to win, and of course it's good for fans to leave the stadium after a win, but winning and losing in pre-season is NOT a precursor of how your season is going to go. Never has been, never will be.

If wins and losses mean anything in the pre-season then we need to have a pre-season Super Bowl before the season starts. I mean how else are we going to know who the best team in August is?

Geez....seems like every year there's this discussion.

After last years horrendous season, I think most posters would disagree with you about pre-season--why don't you start a poll. True, it's a different game and it also applies differently to each team. The Pats and Colts are perinnial winning teams that have entrenched their programs in winning, already going thru all the hard work to develope both teamwork and winning in the minds of their players. Too, they have players on the field that are leaders and help set the 'tone'. Teams that lack these variables, like the Texans, need to get that winning attitude and the easiest place to start that is pre-season. Too, since the Pats and Colts are winners, they are able to 'change gears' when the real season starts--teams, like the Texans, have not learned how to do this yet. Last year, as we all know, the Texans played the pre-season and the real season the same--horrible. The Pats and the Colts did not--bottom line IMO is that the Texans need to establish that winning 'feeling' and it starts from day one, which means a 'win is a win.' Period.:yahoo:

tsip
04-11-2006, 11:23 AM
There is one other point some posters have made that I strongly disagree with--don't show much of the playbook during the preseason. Why not? For starters, you need to develope these plays under game conditions, so why not do it when the games don't count?...so what if another team sees what the team is doing? That's going to happen with the very first game anyway, so the next 15 games will offer few suprises.

Kubiak's playbook is not going to be much of a suprise to any teams anyway, because he is not going to 'suddenly' abandon the 'philosophies' that worked in Dever the past 9 yrs! Besides, as many other posters have noted, our players need to get reps in this new system and get their timing down, especially the starters. I believe, more than ever, showing what they do or don't have is going to be done in practice for newbies--holding back the playbook during preseason IMO is not a priority.

RTP2110
08-06-2006, 03:01 PM
Here are Denver's stats from last pre-season.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/DEN/2005/pre

aj.
08-06-2006, 03:08 PM
Regardless of what Denver has or hasn't done in the past, the Texans have won 10 regular season home games in 4 years. If there is any place a winning tradition/attitude needs to be established, it's here, and Kubiak has that as his main goal. The chance to take a small step toward establishing a winning tradition/attitude starts Saturday. For the Texans, preseason has meaning far beyond identifying the top 53 players and implementing a new system in game conditions.

TwinSisters
08-06-2006, 03:14 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9569192

just to save some typing time... I echo pretty much what the Cowboy Kirwan has to say.

9. Get ready for the opener: Teams don't need game plans for preseason games. Sprinkle in the things you want to do in your regular season opener and spend time during camp practices on the first and even the second regular season opponents.

this particular line item is the one I see the most over the years... with different coaches.

The longer I am around the pro game the more committed I get to the following list of things to do during the summer. Golfers don't get measured on the driving range and baseball players don't have a batting average in the batting cage. The real games count and the preseason games aren't real, even if some people think winning is habit forming and it starts in August. Winning exhibition games isn't a bad thing, but it isn't the most important thing, even if your favorite team loses the first three and has one to play. At the end of the summer, covering this list is more important to the stability of every club.

and his opening lines.

DocBar
08-06-2006, 03:33 PM
2nd place is just the 1st loser. With that said, I couldn't care less about our W/L record as long as the starters look good and seem to be in synch with the coaching staff.

tsip
08-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Again, Colts, a successful franchise, 0-5 this past pre-season. New England, a successful franchise, Super Bowl champs 2 years ago, 1-3 in pre-season that same year. The W/L record does not matter in pre-season. What matters is how your first unit performs when they are TOGETHER in those games. When your 2nd and 3rd units come onto the field.....do you see the difference right there? Your entire 2nd and 3rd units will never be on the field in a regular season game. Just because your 2nd unit looks shaky and doesn't march down the field and losses the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, doesn't mean that your backups suck. In pre-season, you get your starters working toward getting on the same page, you look for other players to step up and perform, you put players in certain situations to see how they perform. You've got players on the field in those games who will be cut after the game. IT'S A DIFFERENT GAME. Yeah, it's always nice to win at whatever you do, and when you're doing whatever it is you do, you always want to win, and of course it's good for fans to leave the stadium after a win, but winning and losing in pre-season is NOT a precursor of how your season is going to go. Never has been, never will be.

If wins and losses mean anything in the pre-season then we need to have a pre-season Super Bowl before the season starts. I mean how else are we going to know who the best team in August is?

Geez....seems like every year there's this discussion.

IMO, you're missing several points. First, there is a 'huge' difference between an established winning team (like the Pats/Colts) and the Texans. The Pats/Colts enter PS with established players as well as successful Offenses and Defenses. They can focus on looking at new players and 'tweaking' the play of the Vets, as they have already established a foundation of winning. The Texans-on the other hand-have a huge 'to do' list in PS. For us, not only are the Offense/Defense new, but there is huge a potential change in the roster. We're in a 'catch-22' situation because we've got to determine our roster but also need to give starters sufficient playing time to be ready for the season opener. Too, we've got new philosophies in place--one of which emphasizes winning--and the Coaches need to establish that concept sooner than later.

There is no way we are in a 'typical' PS situation this year!! IMO, if we approach this PS as just another PS, we will be in a 'world of hurt.' I would, however, be interested in hearing how you think we can approach this PS like the Pats/Colts--heck, enlighten me...I'm all ears.

CloakNNNdagger
08-07-2006, 12:55 AM
There is no way we are in a 'typical' PS situation this year!! IMO, if we approach this PS as just another PS, we will be in a 'world of hurt.' I would, however, be interested in hearing how you think we can approach this PS like the Pats/Colts--heck, enlighten me...I'm all ears.[/QUOTE]

Last Year: The Colts and Pats know that they are going to beat us.....The Texans know that the Colts and Pats will beat us.

This Year: The Colts and Pats know that they are going to beat us....The
Texans know that the Colts and Pats will lose to us.

ocd
08-07-2006, 01:59 AM
I live up here in Colorado where theythink the Broncos are God's team..."Back to Back" is still painted on the outside of buildings fro crying out loud!

Shanny uses the pre-season to evaluate talent. First team must produce or they stay out on the field. He's already evaluated everybody before game time but, just to make sure, he plays them on his projected depth chart.

For example, two years ago as I remember Mauck was ahead of Van Pelt so Shanny gave Mauck (who was behind Danny Kannel) plenty of time to prove himself knowing Van Pelt was gonna go to the practice squad. Van Pelt was given less than two min to do something and he did...marched down the field and scored by running it in himself for about 20 yards.

But Shanny also likes to go into the season with momentum, as in wins...hope this helps.

Texans_Chick
08-07-2006, 10:43 PM
From today's camp quotes (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2727&section=N%20Latest%20News)

(on how long the starters will play on Saturday against the Kansas City Chiefs) “We’ve talked about it as a staff; we’ll talk more about it probably on Thursday. I think we have a little different situation here. I think you’ll see some starters playing longer than normal than some teams. We have to get some guys some work. I can probably answer that question a little better on Thursday.”