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Wolf
04-09-2006, 11:14 PM
He didn't win the Heisman Trophy, even though many thought he deserved it.

But this quarterback didn't need that award to prove his worth, not after dazzling the college football world and NFL scouts with his uncanny athletic ability.


"He is a once-in-a-lifetime athlete,'' said Dave Te' Thomas of The NFL Draft Report. "No one in the NFL can hold a candle to this kid. He is the prototype quarterback of the future. Twenty years from now, we'll be sitting up in Canton (Ohio at the Pro Football Hall of Fame) where he's dusting off his bust.''

Vince Young?

Nope, although many experts are saying similar things about the University of Texas quarterback leading up to the April 29-30 NFL Draft.

Those words were uttered in 1994 to describe Steve McNair, who was in his final season at Alcorn State.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060210/SPORTS01/602100430/1027

I posted that on the NFL section a while back but didn't see it.
:stirpot:

KSig44
04-10-2006, 12:06 AM
Athlete....maybe
Quarterback....no

LoneStarState
04-10-2006, 12:08 AM
Athlete....maybe
Quarterback....no
EXACTLY!

Mike Kerns
04-10-2006, 12:41 AM
Athlete....maybe
Quarterback....no

I have nothing else to add...

Napa Auto Parts
04-10-2006, 12:45 AM
well for and athlete he plays the positon pretty good even beat the number one Quaterback in the national championship.

Grid
04-10-2006, 12:47 AM
well for and athlete he plays the positon pretty good even beat the number one Quaterback in the national championship.

Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:

infantrycak
04-10-2006, 01:07 AM
Take this for a little perspective. McNair is an excellent QB who was exceedingly well qualified to win a SB but has not. At the same time, folks have been talking about QB's changing the role of QB's for decades and it hasn't happened. It may, but none of the new QB formula hasn't been tried before. Apply that to VY and what do you have? No he is not going to redefine the position, but if a coaching staff develops him correctly and uses him correctly he very well could be special enough to win SB's if, like any QB, the team around him is also SB worthy.

Grid
04-10-2006, 03:42 AM
Take this for a little perspective. McNair is an excellent QB who was exceedingly well qualified to win a SB but has not. At the same time, folks have been talking about QB's changing the role of QB's for decades and it hasn't happened. It may, but none of the new QB formula hasn't been tried before. Apply that to VY and what do you have? No he is not going to redefine the position, but if a coaching staff develops him correctly and uses him correctly he very well could be special enough to win SB's if, like any QB, the team around him is also SB worthy.

That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.

Frank_The_Tank
04-10-2006, 04:07 AM
Why do people still post positive things about Vince on this Texans Message Board? This message board is infected with Reggie Bush Mud Sharks. They sit around and scan through the threads in hope to find a positive Vince comment to thrash and bash. The Mud Sharks work in packs; it’s always the same 6 to 8 idiots posting the same feeble crap over and over.

http://www.inmylife.co.uk/photos/glastonbury2005/big/IMAG0404.JPG

Frank_The_Tank
04-10-2006, 04:12 AM
That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.


There have been about 12 QB's in the past two years who have been cut by their teams who have had way more sucess than David Carr, way better Stats, way better decision making skills during games, just muach better talent. We have the most expensive back up QB in the League starting for our team.

Frank_The_Tank
04-10-2006, 04:24 AM
Hey Mud Sharks, you guys would not know talent if it was slapping you in the face. You guys have your heads so far down on Reggie Bushes crotch that I dont see how yall have time for a life. I guess Vince Young will not be a success in the N.F.L. because a bunch of pea-brain Mud Sharks say it is so. Why don't you Homers keep your Pro-Bush annotations in the Broke Back only threads and leave Vince Young supporters alone.

Janus3
04-10-2006, 04:37 AM
once in a lifetime athlete? nah, they have busts every year.

Frank_The_Tank
04-10-2006, 04:48 AM
once in a lifetime athlete? nah, they have busts every year.

Mud Shark

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 08:44 AM
i'm tired of these "once in a lifetime athlete" labels being applied every year (and sometimes more than once a year, oddly enough) to some player. michael vick was suppose to revolutionize the QB position, and if anything, the position has gotten MORE prototypical of the pocket QB. QB's don't need to be athletes, they need to be quarterbacks first.

CoastalTexan
04-10-2006, 09:47 AM
Barrick Nealy has the same athletic numbers, you dont hear all the hoopla about him though.

KSig44
04-10-2006, 09:50 AM
Because he is 1AA (but can the competition be much different than Alcorn St.)? Grabbibg Nealy in the 6th round and letting him sit for a couple years intrigues me.

TheOgre
04-10-2006, 11:05 AM
i'm tired of these "once in a lifetime athlete" labels being applied every year (and sometimes more than once a year, oddly enough) to some player. michael vick was suppose to revolutionize the QB position, and if anything, the position has gotten MORE prototypical of the pocket QB. QB's don't need to be athletes, they need to be quarterbacks first.

I've been making jokes about this myself. The media really has some fans wrapped around their fingers.

TreWardTxn
04-10-2006, 11:32 AM
We all know the media has a tendency to overstate things, but we also know when a guy does things on a football field that have not been seen (or have only been seen very rarely) before. If a player can be a gamebreaking college QB only because he is the best athlete on the field (as some have said), then why didn't Bush take snaps? Being the QB at the college level involves a bit more than being the best athletic talent, and the same goes for running back at the pro level...

dwilt72
04-10-2006, 11:39 AM
Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:

Barry Sanders couldn't pass like VY. Yes, VY is a special athlete. I also believe if he goes to a team that is willing to let him use his athletic talents, he will be a special QB at the pro level too. Look at the team he beat in the Rose Bowl! Two Heisman winners and a TON of NFL prospects. 41-38, that's all I need to know!

vtech9
04-10-2006, 01:29 PM
That is a perspective I can agree with. With that in mind, the real question becomes "do we need to get a project QB".. and in my mind the answer is no.

if you step back and look at all the starting QBs in the league, I dont know how you can then look at David Carr and say he is a bust. The potential is still there. id rather make HIM my project QB and use our first round pick on someone else who can help the team out while Carr is on the field.
Do we need to get a project QB??? Well, we already have a project QB...the same one we have had for the last 4 years. He still has a lot of potential, but after 4 years, will that potential ever be realized? That is the question that I want answered.

Haams
04-10-2006, 03:56 PM
Put Barry Sanders in at QB at the college level and he will beat people too. Doesnt make him a good QB. :cool:

Would he also take a team that had WR's with experience levels of 0 and lead the nation in pass efficiency?

TexanFan881
04-10-2006, 03:58 PM
If VY is a once in a lifetime player than what does that make Reggie Bush...God?

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 03:59 PM
Barry Sanders couldn't pass like VY. Yes, VY is a special athlete. I also believe if he goes to a team that is willing to let him use his athletic talents, he will be a special QB at the pro level too. Look at the team he beat in the Rose Bowl! Two Heisman winners and a TON of NFL prospects. 41-38, that's all I need to know!
he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.

PapaL
04-10-2006, 04:35 PM
he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.

Stole my post, lol. My thoughts exactly.

Haams
04-10-2006, 05:54 PM
he beat their defense. and it's not a great defense. consider how fresno state did against them. they put up more points, and that's WITH paul pinegar's 4 interceptions.

Crap guys, I forgot, co-national champs this year: the Texas Longhorns and the USC offense. I forgot, Reggie and company didn't lose because they weren't on the field while Vince was scoring.

TheOgre
04-10-2006, 06:42 PM
Would he also take a team that had WR's with experience levels of 0 and lead the nation in pass efficiency?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/stats/2005/divia/individual/passing_efficiency_byQB_RATING.html

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 07:07 PM
Crap guys, I forgot, co-national champs this year: the Texas Longhorns and the USC offense. I forgot, Reggie and company didn't lose because they weren't on the field while Vince was scoring.
you make it seem like VINCE YOUNG beat USC, not the TEXAS LONGHORNS. i'm sure that's how young feels, but the rest of us realize it's a team sport.

TreWardTxn
04-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Naw, nobody is trying to say it was a one man effort, the D did it's job in getting that one stop in the 2nd half. But everyone at the game and watching TV had no doubt what was going to happen once Texas got the ball, and that was because of one player. Thinking (knowing) that Young was going to led the Longhorns to the goahead score wasn't in a, 'I really hope he can' kinda way, but more like a, 'there's no way he won't' sense. It was like having (enter your favorite comeback QB here) take the reins, and being confident, not worried to hell, like with most QBs. Of course, that's no reason alone to draft a guy, but when you combine that with the physical abilities, it's an intriguing package...

CoastalTexan
04-10-2006, 10:28 PM
The all-american offensive line didn't have anything to do with the final score.

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 10:31 PM
The all-american offensive line didn't have anything to do with the final score.
of course not.

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 10:49 PM
of course not.
NO, because on 4th & inches, when the game was on the line, that all American line couldn't pick up the 1st.... Then Vince goes on to score, 4th & 5, or was it 4th & 8th.... that he scored the game winning touchdown.

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 10:51 PM
you make it seem like VINCE YOUNG beat USC, not the TEXAS LONGHORNS. i'm sure that's how young feels, but the rest of us realize it's a team sport.

You make it sound like he didn't. The man amoung boys accounted for 467 yards of offense........

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 10:53 PM
it was 4th and 30 actually, and the line decided to take the play off. he did it all by himself.

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 10:55 PM
You make it sound like he didn't. The man amoung boys accounted for 467 yards of offense........
actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:10 PM
Athlete....maybe
Quarterback....no
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/QBRating.jpg

Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:12 PM
actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.

So I guess Reggie Bush, and Matt Lienart was playing behind fish right??

Napa Auto Parts
04-10-2006, 11:15 PM
that has to be wrong there is no way Vince is a QB no way in hell. better than Matt Leinert not a chance who cares if Vince young Owned Matt&Reggie and the whole USC Squad in the national championship.:stirpot:

newbiefan
04-10-2006, 11:15 PM
actually it was a man with a offensive line stocked with men, and a receiving corps stocked with men that won the game. sure, texas doesn't have great receivers, but they're better than USC's defensive backs. it's all about matchups. which is how young was so successful last year: HIS TEAMMATES.


Yup, I'm sure if you were behind all that talent you would rack up 467 yards too.

I mean seriously, even anti-VY people can recognize that he played a heck of a Rose Bowl and had a great college career. Whether his talents translate to the NFL is the source of debate. You make it sound as if he did nothing.

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 11:15 PM
according to that list, phil horvath is better than leinart. colt brennan is just below him. yeah.

So I guess Reggie Bush, and Matt Lienart was playing behind fish right??
the difference being they played in a pro-style offense built to exploit defensive flaws, as opposed to being designed to fit the needs of the quarterback. when leinart is gone, and before leinart got there, the offense will be run the same. whoever starts for texas this year will probably be running a more traditional advanced offense.

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 11:17 PM
Yup, I'm sure if you were behind all that talent you would rack up 467 yards too.

I mean seriously, even anti-VY people can recognize that he played a heck of a Rose Bowl and had a great college career. Whether his talents translate to the NFL is the source of debate. You make it sound as if he did nothing.
he is a great college QB. just not as great as people say he is. he's about as great as ken dorsey.

texan279
04-10-2006, 11:19 PM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/QBRating.jpg

Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??

So based on this list are Rudy Carpenter and Brian Brohm better QB's than Vince and Leinart? That lists shows me squat actually, Leinart had more yards passing than Young, a better completion percentage than Young, more passing TD's than Young, less INT's than Young, and more passing attempts than Young. The only stat Young did better than Leinart in was yards per attempt, which Young averaged .4 yards more than Leinart per attempt.

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:27 PM
according to that list, phil horvath is better than leinart. colt brennan is just below him. yeah.


the difference being they played in a pro-style offense built to exploit defensive flaws, as opposed to being designed to fit the needs of the quarterback. when leinart is gone, and before leinart got there, the offense will be run the same. whoever starts for texas this year will probably be running a more traditional advanced offense.

Well, it didn't seem to work too well for it when it counted... 4th and one, Reggie on the sideline, and the only thing getting exploited is USC's defense, by the Man amoung boys, with his arm, and his legs...

and no......... you're wrong again.... they'll be running the same offense. IT seems to work better at exploiting defensive flaws.

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:30 PM
So based on this list are Rudy Carpenter and Brian Brohm better QB's than Vince and Leinart? That lists shows me squat actually, Leinart had more yards passing than Young, a better completion percentage than Young, more passing TD's than Young, less INT's than Young, and more passing attempts than Young. The only stat Young did better than Leinart in was yards per attempt, which Young averaged .4 yards more than Leinart per attempt.

ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 11:31 PM
Well, it didn't seem to work too well for it when it counted... 4th and one, Reggie on the sideline, and the only thing getting exploited is USC's defense, by the Man amoung boys, with his arm, and his legs...
it must be easy to fool yourself into thinking you win arguments when you oversimplify everything and compare apples to oranges. bush was on the sidelines because white is the short-yardage back. texas's defense is 10 times better than USC's. texas's o-line is better than USC's. etc etc. what that has to do with young? nothing at all.

kastofsna
04-10-2006, 11:32 PM
ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...
QB rating in college is by far the most useless stat for QB's. look at the players on the list, what offense they play in, who they play against, etc. and he said it already, there is only ONE category young was better than leinart in in passing, and it's not even that significant of a difference. considering young had more INTs with far less pass attempts is as good a sign as any how useless the QB rating is.

texan279
04-10-2006, 11:33 PM
ARe you telling me that you'll bend stats to fit your argument, instead of following along with all the experts you came up with this system of rating a QB??

What a novel idea, I may have to try that sometime...

I'd love for you to show me what "stats I bent", I just took what you posted and pointed out that Leinart had better stats in every category except average yards per attempt, did I bend that? Because it's right there on the list you posted...

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:38 PM
QB rating in college is by far the most useless stat for QB's. look at the players on the list, what offense they play in, who they play against, etc. and he said it already, there is only ONE category young was better than leinart in in passing, and it's not even that significant of a difference. considering young had more INTs with far less pass attempts is as good a sign as any how useless the QB rating is.


eh......... yeah......

ok. You're funny.

Tejaspro
04-10-2006, 11:56 PM
My dream is that the Texans draft Bush, and Vince Young drops and drops until the Texans decide to trade the rest of their picks and get him later in the first round..... look, I warned you... I'm dreamin'. But I like it.:yahoo:

thunderkyss
04-10-2006, 11:56 PM
I'd love for you to show me what "stats I bent", I just took what you posted and pointed out that Leinart had better stats in every category except average yards per attempt, did I bend that? Because it's right there on the list you posted...

OK, you didn't bend the stats. You did however package the information in a way to boost your argument. When their is a formula used by pros that would take those numbers, and show you that Vince is the QB with the highest QB rating in the 2006 draft.

For instance...... Vince's YPA is only .4yards better per attempt. But Matt has a better completion percentage(didn't mention it's .5 percent (half a percent)). Matt has more touchdowns, and less ints(didn't mention it was only 2 each, over the course of a year).

Matt has more passing attempts...?? wow. Find out how many more attempts Matt had more than Vince. Then multiply Vince's YPA to that difference. You'd see if Vince had thrown more..... instead of sitting out the 4th quarter. Vince would then have more Passing yards. Do the samething with TDs per pass attempt, Vince would have more TDs. More INTs also.

Then, on top of all that, 976 or some odd rushing yards, from the same player...... I don't know how many rushing TDs........ but I've been told it's more than the #1 rated Running back in the 2006 draft.

he may not be once in a lifetime, but I ain't never seen nothing like him before in my lifetime.

TexanFan881
04-11-2006, 12:01 AM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/QBRating.jpg

Do you see where Vince is on this list??

Do you see where Lienart is on this list??

Brady Quinn....... that's another real QB isn't he?? where is he on the list?? above, or below the Athlete??

Vince might have been higher on the list but that was because the defense had to be careful if he was going to run or throw the ball. In the NFL he will not be able to do what he did in college. Matt Leinhart is more of the NFL type QB while Vince Young is more of a NCAAF type QB. It's one thing running past a college defense but it's totally different with a NFL defense. NFL teams know how to prepare for it.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 12:04 AM
Vince might have been higher on the list but that was because the defense had to be careful if he was going to run or throw the ball. In the NFL he will not be able to do what he did in college. Matt Leinhart is more of the NFL type QB while Vince Young is more of a NCAAF type QB. It's one thing running past a college defense but it's totally different with a NFL defense. NFL teams know how to prepare for it.

Good point, good post, but that list doesn't take into account any rushing stats.

That is Vince as a passer.

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 12:08 AM
OK, you didn't bend the stats. You did however package the information in a way to boost your argument. When their is a formula used by pros that would take those numbers, and show you that Vince is the QB with the highest QB rating in the 2006 draft.
the formula is much different in college than in the NFL. that's why having a QB rating of 160 is normal in college, whereas the max you can get in the NFL is 153 something.
Good point, good post, but that list doesn't take into account any rushing stats.

That is Vince as a passer.
he's referring to how the defenses played him.

TexanFan881
04-11-2006, 12:13 AM
Good point, good post, but that list doesn't take into account any rushing stats.

That is Vince as a passer.

The fact is that in college Vince was able to use to his advantage that he could run to help him in the passing game. Leinhart didn't have that as a QB and he was still just as successful. What I am saying is that when NFL defenses can stop Vince from running, what can he do when he's forced to stay in the pocket and to throw the ball? I for one don't think that much, but I'm not going to say he can't because I can't see the future. Leinhart has proven he can throw in the pocket and be consistant, and I think if we're going to consider Young we should be considering Leinhart too.

dirty steve
04-11-2006, 12:28 AM
You guys don't ever get sick of talking about this?

Plus, do you really think an offensive coordinator is going to dumb down the offense and let VY do whatever he wants? It hasn't done Michael Vick a whole lot of good to work in an offense where he is reigned in.

texan279
04-11-2006, 12:31 AM
OK, you didn't bend the stats. You did however package the information in a way to boost your argument. When their is a formula used by pros that would take those numbers, and show you that Vince is the QB with the highest QB rating in the 2006 draft.

For instance...... Vince's YPA is only .4yards better per attempt. But Matt has a better completion percentage(didn't mention it's .5 percent (half a percent)). Matt has more touchdowns, and less ints(didn't mention it was only 2 each, over the course of a year).

Matt has more passing attempts...?? wow. Find out how many more attempts Matt had more than Vince. Then multiply Vince's YPA to that difference. You'd see if Vince had thrown more..... instead of sitting out the 4th quarter. Vince would then have more Passing yards. Do the samething with TDs per pass attempt, Vince would have more TDs. More INTs also.

Then, on top of all that, 976 or some odd rushing yards, from the same player...... I don't know how many rushing TDs........ but I've been told it's more than the #1 rated Running back in the 2006 draft.

he may not be once in a lifetime, but I ain't never seen nothing like him before in my lifetime.

Young rushed for 12 TD's and Bush rushed for 16 Td's in 2006. And as far as me packaging info to boost my argument, here let me just lay it all out...

Passing Attempts
Young 325
Leinart 431

Completion percentage
Young 65.2
Leinart 65.7

Passing Yards
Young 3036
Leinhart 3815

Touchdown passes
Young 26
Leinhart 28

INT's
Young 10
Leinhart 8

Yards per attempt
Young 9.3
Leinhart 8.9

Leinhart is better in every category except yards per attempt, and if you think I am going to sit here and multiply Young's YPA, TD's, and TD's per pass attempts to the difference of attempts between Young and Leinart, that's insane, no stats in any sport are calculated like that.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 12:39 AM
The fact is that in college Vince was able to use to his advantage that he could run to help him in the passing game. Leinhart didn't have that as a QB and he was still just as successful. What I am saying is that when NFL defenses can stop Vince from running, what can he do when he's forced to stay in the pocket and to throw the ball? I for one don't think that much, but I'm not going to say he can't because I can't see the future. Leinhart has proven he can throw in the pocket and be consistant, and I think if we're going to consider Young we should be considering Leinhart too.

Fair enough.....

although I'm not partial to only Vince. I'd be happy if we drafted Omar Jacobs, or Reggie McNeal as well. But not with the #1 overall.

You guys don't ever get sick of talking about this?

Plus, do you really think an offensive coordinator is going to dumb down the offense and let VY do whatever he wants? It hasn't done Michael Vick a whole lot of good to work in an offense where he is reigned in.

Have you watched the Saints in the last 6 years??

Houston has been dumbing down it's offense for the last 3 years.

And Denver's system is tailored to a mobile QB.

Leinhart is better in every category except yards per attempt, and if you think I am going to sit here and multiply Young's YPA, TD's, and TD's per pass attempts to the difference of attempts between Young and Leinart, that's insane, no stats in any sport are calculated like that.

Then use the simplified version. the QB rating you don't want to believe.

CoastalTexan
04-11-2006, 12:49 AM
NFL teams do not play out of spread offense where it is out of the shotgun 90% of the time. Vince did. There is a reason why all the scouting folks agree Leinart is the TOP QB in this draft.

infantrycak
04-11-2006, 12:51 AM
Then use the simplified version. the QB rating you don't want to believe.

Just as an FYI--the college QB rating system weighs TD's much more heavily than INT's. The reason VY's rating is higher than Leinart is his less TD's per attempt count more against him than VY's more INT's per attempt. Not saying the system is wrong, just explaining it a little.

texan279
04-11-2006, 12:51 AM
Then use the simplified version. the QB rating you don't want to believe.

Based on your philosophy then, David Carr was a better college QB than Young was in college becuase Carr had a better QB rating his senior season than Young did. And I guess that Carr is a better NFL QB than Eli Manning, Brett Favre, Aaron Brooks, Michael Vick, and Daunte Culpepper since Carr had a better QB rating than all of them last season...

KSig44
04-11-2006, 12:52 AM
So college stats are the Bible when it comes to scouting prospects. Then I guess Andre Ware and David Klingler are soon to be getting busts in the Hall of Fame. NO, their just busted and VY will be to. No NFL team will focus a offensive gameplan around him, he will have to learn it. He couldn't do that at Texas and that is why Brown and Davis said F it, we want to win. Of the 3 top QB's, he is the better ATHLETE and the least ready to take over a NFL offense. That's the gamble.

And by the way, who was his leading reciever? David Thomas with 50 receptions. That is almost 1/4th of VY's completions. That tells me they went with a safe ball control gameplan and that is why his efficiency rating is so high.

Like I said before. Show me a game he beat a good team with 300yds and 3TD's through the air and I will believe his ability a bit more.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 01:58 AM
Based on your philosophy then, David Carr was a better college QB than Young was in college becuase Carr had a better QB rating his senior season than Young did. And I guess that Carr is a better NFL QB than Eli Manning, Brett Favre, Aaron Brooks, Michael Vick, and Daunte Culpepper since Carr had a better QB rating than all of them last season...
Ok, Carr was a better college QB than Vince..... his game hasn't translated well........ maybe it's those intangibles they keep talking about, the "it" thing. Sometimes, college players don't make it in the NFL... we think we can see it, and predict it, then you have your Jake Delhommes, your Kurt Warners, Your Doug Fluties, etc.... Now, Brett Farve....... had a bad year.... a bad, bad year...... but still threw for 3880yards, and 20 TDs...... Culpepper only played 7 games, was thinking he was going to jail, and wonedering why his team didn't back him up(in court).

So college stats are the Bible when it comes to scouting prospects. Then I guess Andre Ware and David Klingler are soon to be getting busts in the Hall of Fame. NO, their just busted and VY will be to. No NFL team will focus a offensive gameplan around him, he will have to learn it. He couldn't do that at Texas and that is why Brown and Davis said F it, we want to win. Of the 3 top QB's, he is the better ATHLETE and the least ready to take over a NFL offense. That's the gamble.

And by the way, who was his leading reciever? David Thomas with 50 receptions. That is almost 1/4th of VY's completions. That tells me they went with a safe ball control gameplan and that is why his efficiency rating is so high.

Like I said before. Show me a game he beat a good team with 300yds and 3TD's through the air and I will believe his ability a bit more.

No, it's not the bible....

This thread started out with a few posters saying Vince wasn't even a quarterback. I posted those stats, just to show he ranks pretty well, with the guys people around here think are QBs......

UT will still be using the same offense, with two other QBs, not Vince Young. So I don't know if it was just for Vince. you can call it simple if you want, but it works. We'll watch this year, to see if the system produces VY type stats.

NFL networks just reported that Tennessee is leaning towards Vince........ not Matt, not Cutler......... Vince.....

I guess a few experts can see something worth gambling on.

Tell me this... St. Louis, are they running the same sytem they ran with Warner?? How 'bout Indy, is that the same system Dungy ran in Tampa?? Is it the same system they ran before Peyton?? Denver, is that the same O they used with Elway?? N.O. what are they going to do?? are they going to look like Dallas, or the Aaron Brooks type of offense, or something more customized to Drew's talents??

I thought good coaches tailored their offenses/defenses to their players talents.....

We don't run two backs, never have....... Denver doesn't put two tailbacks in the backfield, and motions one out to the slot. No team does. But you have no problem with a coach customizing their offense to accomodate a Running back...... & this goes beyound zone blocking, and backside cutbacks.... we're talking about no tightend, 4 WRs, 5 Wrs, no Full back....... etc, etc.... How many times has Denver ran 5 WRs?? Houston??

Janus3
04-11-2006, 03:17 AM
Good point, good post, but that list doesn't take into account any rushing stats.

That is Vince as a passer.

vince played in the oh so powerful big 12. wow, impressive. /sarc

Janus3
04-11-2006, 03:18 AM
Young rushed for 12 TD's and Bush rushed for 16 Td's in 2006. And as far as me packaging info to boost my argument, here let me just lay it all out...

Passing Attempts
Young 325
Leinart 431

Completion percentage
Young 65.2
Leinart 65.7

Passing Yards
Young 3036
Leinhart 3815

Touchdown passes
Young 26
Leinhart 28

INT's
Young 10
Leinhart 8

Yards per attempt
Young 9.3
Leinhart 8.9

Leinhart is better in every category except yards per attempt, and if you think I am going to sit here and multiply Young's YPA, TD's, and TD's per pass attempts to the difference of attempts between Young and Leinart, that's insane, no stats in any sport are calculated like that.



pwnz0rz

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 04:05 AM
pwnz0rz

?? the numbers are nearly identicle.......

The only number that is out of proportion, is Matts attempts.. he threw the ball 106 times more than Vince. If you multiply that by Vince's YPA(9.3 x 106) you get 985 yards. Add that to Vince's 3036, and you get 4021 passing yards.
Matt threw 2 more touchdowns than Vince in those extra 106 attempts..... woopee, and that's with an amazing offensive weapon like Dale Jarrette..... and Reggie Bush too.
He threw 2 less INTs......... weeeeeeeeeee.

running the spread doesn't change the defense. It's just as difficult to read, whether you have your hands under the center, or if you're 5 yards back. It just gives the QB more time to process the info. If Kubiak is the guru we're making him out to be, then there isn't a better team for Vince Young to go to and develop.

I understand that Reggie will(not might, but will) help our team more than Vince will in 2006, but come 2008, 2009...... I don't think Reggie will be able to contribute anything that will compare to what Vince might.

It would be nice, if we had more playmakers on the O, that can cause mismatches, and take it to the house. If anything, the signing of Jeb Putzier, and Eric Moulds satisfies that need(because both Moulds and AJ demand the double team, and Jeb can be set up as a WR). Especially considering we already have AJ, Derrick Armstrong, and Kevin Mathis. DD is a threat to score every time he touches the ball inside the 50. With the WRs, FB, TE, and mobile David Carr, we should have no problem getting to the 50. And with the way our O will spread out the D, Domanick's going to be eating candy all day long behind Kubiak's zone blocking, and Flanagan the prowbowl center we just aquired.

Haams
04-11-2006, 09:33 AM
you make it seem like VINCE YOUNG beat USC, not the TEXAS LONGHORNS. i'm sure that's how young feels, but the rest of us realize it's a team sport.

That was actually my point, in response to those who just told me Reggie Bush didn't lose.

Haams
04-11-2006, 09:35 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/stats/2005/divia/individual/passing_efficiency_byQB_RATING.html

My understanding is that Vince led after the regular season. His 467 yards in the Rose Bowl actually brought his efficiency down (completions without TD's)

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 10:01 AM
running the spread doesn't change the defense. It's just as difficult to read, whether you have your hands under the center, or if you're 5 yards back.
completely false. that's the reason college teams run the spread. it's easier to read the defense.

TheOgre
04-11-2006, 10:08 AM
My understanding is that Vince led after the regular season. His 467 yards in the Rose Bowl actually brought his efficiency down (completions without TD's)

That makes sense. I knew there had to be a reason that everyone kept saying that. He must have been at the top prior to the bowls.

I don't think the comparison should be Carr vs. Young. The question should be do you like Carr, Bush, and DD is better or Young, DD, and whatever we can get for Carr (not to mention the cap hit we would take and the lost players as a result of that)?

beerlover
04-11-2006, 10:57 AM
I don't think the comparison should be Carr vs. Young. The question should be do you like Carr, Bush, and DD is better or Young, DD, and whatever we can get for Carr (not to mention the cap hit we would take and the lost players as a result of that)?


is this not the ideal situation for Vince Young to come into? Carr has paved the way (given up his body) for a Young, NFL inexperienced QB, to learn the system/league for a year or two, then when he is ready and his confidence/body remains intact he could fullfill his potential. Vince Young sat & groomed one year @ Texas, then by the end of year two won the Rose Bowl over Michigan, year three won the NCAA Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, considered by most as one of the greatest programs in NCAA history.

The Texans only committed to Carr for three years, sometime during that window Vince will be ready & at his own pace without the pressures of being fed to the NLF wolves. Carr improves and does great, that would be awesome then the Texans could make a trade, to aquire compenstaion via trade.

Which ever way this thing plays out, Reggie Bush or Vince Young, Texan fans will continue to fill seats & buy merchandise. the decision should be Kubiacs, he is the best qualified & understands the QB position better than anyone, if at the same time he & Casserly can use another organization to add an extra high pick and still get Young, along with more contract flexibilty, that may add up for the Texans makin VY a Houston Texan.

once again to recap some valid reasons to draft Vince Young-


time to groom under Carr
Carr's trade value will increase
VY will be more flexible cap wise in contract negoiations
extra pick/s
VY will fill Relient & sell jerseys too!
send a message to all Houston area youth football

texan279
04-11-2006, 11:04 AM
once again to recap some valid reasons to draft Vince Young-


time to groom under Carr
Carr's trade value will increase
VY will be more flexible cap wise in contract negoiations
extra pick/s
VY will fill Relient & sell jerseys too!
send a message to all Houston area youth football


Out of that list I see only one halfway decent reason (extra picks) for trading down, not necessarily drafting Young. No where on that list do I see "Young Gives us the best chance to win" or "Young can come in and make the buiggest impact".

CoastalTexan
04-11-2006, 11:21 AM
You have to make up multiple excuses to pick Young. The only excuse for Bush is BPA.

El Amigo Invisible
04-11-2006, 12:12 PM
You have to make up multiple excuses to pick Young. The only excuse for Bush is BPA.
Bush had so much talent around him (White and Matteo) and their team has a great coach. Texas had Vincent and most predicted it to be a one sided game. USC had too much talent and the Texas defense wouldn't be able to handle that much offense. I know Texas was good on defense but IMO they were not the best I had seen. Now, Reggie is going to be able to produce for a team that was 2-14?Yes,we have added alot of talent on both sides of the ball but Reggie has always been surrounded by talent.I think most people know I want to draft Vince but I would take Hawk in a trade down situation if need be but that seems more unlikely now than drafting Vince.

beerlover
04-11-2006, 12:20 PM
You have to make up multiple excuses to pick Young. The only excuse for Bush is BPA.

who was the BPA in the Rose Bowl? not Bush. VY was :rofl:

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 12:22 PM
yes yes, bush was surrounded by great talent, but so was young.

infantrycak
04-11-2006, 12:26 PM
Texas had Vincent and most predicted it to be a one sided game.

People keep acting like VY had no surrounding cast. He had what was considered either the best or 2nd best OL in the country with USC having the other. He did put in one of the greatest single game performances ever as well. Most did not predict the game to be one sided since the odds were essentially even with a home field advantage given to USC.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 12:35 PM
You have to make up multiple excuses to pick Young. The only excuse for Bush is BPA.

How 'bout incredible poise under pressure?? How 'bout amazing leadership ability?? How 'bout the highest effeciency rating of any QB in the draft?? How 'bout having the highest QB rating of any QB in the draft?? How 'bout having the stronger arm of the two QBs expected to go in the top 5?? How 'bout accomplishing nearly identicle passing numbers as the #1 rated QB in the draft with less talent at the WR & RB positions?? How 'bout being a QB that can break a 75 yard touchdown run(I know it's at the college level, but all the accomplishments of the top running back in the draft, who only scored 16 rushing touchdowns(compared to Vince's 12 rushing touchdowns), were also at the college level, against college defenses).

How about having Better passing & rushing numbers than Michael Vick, and Donavan McNabb coming out of college. Whom many consider two of the best most dynamic quarterbacks in the NFL today.


OH, I'm sorry you said we have to make them up....... everything I just wrote, is true.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 12:41 PM
who was the BPA in the Rose Bowl? not Bush. VY was :rofl:


who was the second best??

Matt Lienart.

Third Best??


Lendale white.

4th best??

David Thomas.

5th best??

Dale Jarrett

6th Best??

Michael Huff

Everyone of these players along with Vince's draft stock went up... even though Jarrett isn't in the draft.

Bush's draft stock went sideways...... of course, that could be because he was already the #1 rated player...

texan279
04-11-2006, 12:43 PM
How 'bout incredible poise under pressure?? How 'bout amazing leadership ability?? How 'bout the highest effeciency rating of any QB in the draft?? How 'bout having the highest QB rating of any QB in the draft?? How 'bout having the stronger arm of the two QBs expected to go in the top 5?? How 'bout accomplishing nearly identicle passing numbers as the #1 rated QB in the draft with less talent at the WR & RB positions?? How 'bout being a QB that can break a 75 yard touchdown run(I know it's at the college level, but all the accomplishments of the top running back in the draft, who only scored 16 rushing touchdowns(compared to Vince's 12 rushing touchdowns), were also at the college level, against college defenses).

How about having Better passing & rushing numbers than Michael Vick, and Donavan McNabb coming out of college. Whom many consider two of the best most dynamic running backs in the NFL today.


OH, I'm sorry you said we have to make them up....... everything I just wrote, is true.

Leinart has a higher passing effiency percentage than Young. Young might not have had as much talent at RB and WR, but he had one hell of an offensive line that gave him all the time in the world.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 01:08 PM
Leinart has a higher passing effiency percentage than Young. Young might not have had as much talent at RB and WR, but he had one hell of an offensive line that gave him all the time in the world.

Lienart has a higher completion percentage(half a percent). Efficiency means Young would pick up more yards, and was more likely to throw a touchdown than Matt was with every throw.

I wonder how many of Matt's Olinemen are projected to go first day, compared to how many of Vince's OL will go first day.....

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 01:21 PM
actually texas's line will have more. jonathan scott is a 2nd rounder this year, justin blalock is a 1st rounder next year...

Haams
04-11-2006, 02:12 PM
You have to make up multiple excuses to pick Young. The only excuse for Bush is BPA.

is that all you got? in coastal texans highly regarded opinion Reggie Bush is the best player available? Where does that even come from? His best game was worse than VY's. His best season was not as impressive as VY's. In the championship game he got made look human while VY looked like a superhero. Not saying RB is not a great player, I just don't see where bpa comes from. In my opinion he's not bpa (or even best running back) from his own team.

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 02:21 PM
well if you think lendale white is a better runningback, you got a few marbles loose. and bush had a better season than young. leading the country in total yards on the #1 team despite splitting carries, and having a rushing YPC of over 8 is pretty inhuman. young's numbers are a product of the offense.

Chicagotexan1
04-11-2006, 02:41 PM
is that all you got? in coastal texans highly regarded opinion Reggie Bush is the best player available? Where does that even come from? His best game was worse than VY's. His best season was not as impressive as VY's. In the championship game he got made look human while VY looked like a superhero. Not saying RB is not a great player, I just don't see where bpa comes from. In my opinion he's not bpa (or even best running back) from his own team.

being the BPA is like having the WILD DRAW 4 in UNO. It doesn't matter what reasons you have for being in love with a player that is not the BPA, even if he is from Houston. DRAW 2, REVERSE, SKIP... None of that trumps the WILD DRAW FOUR. That's Reggie Bush, that's it. Many many TD's did VY throw for in the Rose. NONE. Give me a break if you think that he'll be able to do that in the NFL. Those stats are tougher to achieve in the NFL for QB's regardless of thier speed or ability.

CoastalTexan
04-11-2006, 02:42 PM
ALL the mock drafts have Bush goin first, the BPA usually goes first. People that get paid (professionals) to examine prospects say Bush is the BPA. You don't get paid to look at prospects. They do, comparing #'s between two different positions is real scientific as well. No one in the country is looking at Young going #1, just us in Texas cause he's from here. This all has been repeated over and over and people don't get it. If we dont draft Vince don't come on here and take all your anger or sadness out please.

jerek
04-11-2006, 02:44 PM
being the BPA is like having the WILD DRAW 4 in UNO. It doesn't matter what reasons you have for being in love with a player that is not the BPA, even if he is from Houston. DRAW 2, REVERSE, SKIP... None of that trumps the WILD DRAW FOUR. That's Reggie Bush, that's it. Many many TD's did VY throw for in the Rose. NONE. Give me a break if you think that he'll be able to do that in the NFL. Those stats are tougher to achieve in the NFL for QB's regardless of thier speed or ability.

Uno. Ha. Wild draw four was a bad *** card.

TexanFan881
04-11-2006, 03:29 PM
is that all you got? in coastal texans highly regarded opinion Reggie Bush is the best player available? Where does that even come from? His best game was worse than VY's. His best season was not as impressive as VY's. In the championship game he got made look human while VY looked like a superhero. Not saying RB is not a great player, I just don't see where bpa comes from. In my opinion he's not bpa (or even best running back) from his own team.

Reggie Bush was considered the best player in the draft up until the Rose Bowl, and if VY had better games than Reggie I think he would have been in consideration before his big game in the championship. VY was not even on the radar up until his great game. He was the BPA but some let that one game get to their head and decided that VY was the BPA. Now some of those VY people have turned back, but some have been in a coma for a few months now. If Reggie Bush would have had a better game and VY was average in the Rose Bowl then we wouldn't even be talking about VY now.

Haams
04-11-2006, 03:53 PM
well if you think lendale white is a better runningback, you got a few marbles loose. and bush had a better season than young. leading the country in total yards on the #1 team despite splitting carries, and having a rushing YPC of over 8 is pretty inhuman. young's numbers are a product of the offense.

Young's numbers are a product of the offense, but having a heisman winning QB (and a back to split carries with) didn't help Reggie? The yards YPC are amazing.

Haams
04-11-2006, 03:55 PM
ALL the mock drafts have Bush goin first...

I'm sure glad those pro's never make mistakes, like with Ryan Leaf. Oh wait, they screw up the draft every year.

Haams
04-11-2006, 04:04 PM
Reggie Bush was considered the best player in the draft up until the Rose Bowl

Up untill the Rose Bowl Vince wasn't a player in the draft.

and if VY had better games than Reggie I think he would have been in consideration before his big game in the championship.

ummmm... did you watch last year's Rose Bowl? How about either of the OSU games?

VY was not even on the radar up until his great game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't VY leading the heisman race untill he had subpar performances in his last couple of games while Reggie had some of his best? Then, people jumped all over the Reggie bandwagon and started talking about Texas didn't have a snowball's chance of beating USC. Now, those same people are talking about how VY doesn't have a snowball's chance of being better than RB at the next level.

I'm not trying to diss RB, I think he's good. I just want to see what's best for the team, and I'm a little pissed that Vince led my team to a perfect season and championship while putting up numbers that ncaa football has never seen and his own hometown still talks about him like he's a 7th grade chump. If you want to call RB BPA, just support it with something (other than period, which is what I usually hear from y'all.)

FirstTexansFan
04-11-2006, 04:19 PM
his own hometown still talks about him like he's a 7th grade chump

First, alot of us aren't Houstonians :) Second, a 7th grader would have scored higher on "THE" test tsip :)

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 04:32 PM
completely false. that's the reason college teams run the spread. it's easier to read the defense.


Ok, what exactly is it about the spread that makes it easier to read a defense?? What can it do, that going with 5 wideouts, motioning a reciever, splitting a TE out, or having the Running back run out to the slot??


Young's numbers are a product of the offense, but having a heisman winning QB (and a back to split carries with) didn't help Reggie? The yards YPC are amazing.

Hamms....... just stop it. You're being silly. Silly. arguments like that only work against Vince Young....... UT had the best team in the league...... minus a QB... they should've been ranked #1 all season long, they probably would've been if it wasn't for that funky throwing motion their QB insists on using. USC only got the #1 ranking out of curtesy(sp). They've been undefeated for the last 2(three??) years because Reggie was there. Had nothing to do with all the 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round talent in the NFL today that came out of USC...... Heck, look at how their QB(prior to Lienart) is doing. If it weren't for T.J & Chad, he'd be benched by now. has nothing to do with the other 1st day talent we'll see in 2006......... those guys are only being drafted because they played with Reggie Bush. UT had a monopoly on talent, and they paid all the officials from all their games, especially the rose bowl. And they didn't even win that game, because Reggie wasn't on the field when Vince drove the bus that resulted in 2 scores in less than 6 minutes. You take those two drives away, and USC is a back to back to back National Champion...... even though they have no talent worth talking about on their team........


....except Reggie.

swtbound07
04-11-2006, 05:42 PM
Here is something i dont get. The common arguement for Reggie is that "nobody outside of Houston thinks Vince deserves to go #1". The convieneint thing is, HOUSTON has the 1st pick. Why do we care what the nation and ESPN think? They dont have the best interests of the team at heart. They dont know our needs and weaknesses like we do. I could give a rat's *** what the nation thinks of Reggie or how he would fit here. Houston has spoken about what Houston should do.....if the Jets were picking number 1 would we be caring about who they would pick? No. Let the other cities deal with their teams, and let Houston handle its own.

Vinny
04-11-2006, 05:55 PM
Here is something i dont get. The common arguement for Reggie is that "nobody outside of Houston thinks Vince deserves to go #1". The convieneint thing is, HOUSTON has the 1st pick. Why do we care what the nation and ESPN think? They dont have the best interests of the team at heart. They dont know our needs and weaknesses like we do. I could give a rat's *** what the nation thinks of Reggie or how he would fit here. Houston has spoken about what Houston should do.....if the Jets were picking number 1 would we be caring about who they would pick? No. Let the other cities deal with their teams, and let Houston handle its own.also people always point to Kubiak using Denver's scheme and claim that Bush is ideal for the Zone blocking scheme. Denver had a speed back in Portis and traded him away. Their offense never missed a beat...actually they had more success once he was gone.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 06:01 PM
Here is something i dont get. The common arguement for Reggie is that "nobody outside of Houston thinks Vince deserves to go #1". The convieneint thing is, HOUSTON has the 1st pick. Why do we care what the nation and ESPN think? They dont have the best interests of the team at heart. They dont know our needs and weaknesses like we do. I could give a rat's *** what the nation thinks of Reggie or how he would fit here. Houston has spoken about what Houston should do.....if the Jets were picking number 1 would we be caring about who they would pick? No. Let the other cities deal with their teams, and let Houston handle its own.

That, IMHO is their best Argument........ much better than the Vince isn't a real Quarterback(as if Reggie is a real running back). Or the...... "no one is going to tailor an offense to a Quarterback, but they will tailor it around a Runningback", or his game won't translate to the NFL.

But why would you take a player with the #1 overall, if you can get him at 7, or 11??

kbourda
04-11-2006, 06:12 PM
[QUOTE=FirstTexansFan]First, alot of us aren't Houstonians [QUOTE]

Yeah, finally someone admits the truth. That's part of the problem with all of this. You know what, I really admire Thunderkyss. He and Texans Chick a great deal and it's not hard to see why. They come on here state their cases based on facts and stats and combat most of you people that spell "doom and gloom" on VY. You guys have inspired me to really say, I hope and pray Vince doesn't come here. Not because I don't want him to play here, because I do. I'm just praying for the day when he blows up, like I know he will, and see what "doom and gloom" you peeps will spell then. I couldn't bring myself to saying that until today. I'll welcome Bush with open arms. I think he'll be a good player just not the one you all think he will be. It's funny how people talk about the A&M game that Vince had as a negative, eventhough he won. I never hear how Bush barely cracked 100 yards against Cal and struggled against Washington (a game he didn't have 100 total yards in). By the way, when was the last time any of you have seen Gayle Sayers play football? I'm willing to bet out of all the posters on here maybe 20. I haven't, I know that much. It is just sickening how much and how many of you guys tear this guy down like his name is Jay Cutler and Cutler is Vince Young. I'm just sick of all of this. This is my last post on this subject. Time will tell the story. The game is played on the field. Don't stop VY supporters.

infantrycak
04-11-2006, 06:12 PM
That, IMHO is their best Argument........ much better than the Vince isn't a real Quarterback(as if Reggie is a real running back). Or the...... "no one is going to tailor an offense to a Quarterback, but they will tailor it around a Runningback", or his game won't translate to the NFL.

No the best argument for drafting either of these players is the phenominal performances they have put in on the field. Bush shows a combination of vision, cutting ability, speed, ability to operate in multiple roles and overall athleticism which individually are matched by other players but are exceedingly rare in their combination. Similarly VY shows a combination of size, elusiveness, leadership and athleticism which are individually matched by other players but are exceedingly rare in their combination. Both have proven they deserve consideration for the #1 pick IMO. All this cruddy running down one or the other to make one look better is sad IMO.

But why would you take a player with the #1 overall, if you can get him at 7, or 11??

Because of need, playing style, current players on rosters and salary cap concerns either of these players may drop to 7 or 10 if not taken by the Texans. That argument doesn't hunt as an indicator for chosing one over the other.

thunderkyss
04-11-2006, 06:46 PM
No the best argument for drafting either of these players is the phenominal performances they have put in on the field. Bush shows a combination of vision, cutting ability, speed, ability to operate in multiple roles and overall athleticism which individually are matched by other players but are exceedingly rare in their combination. Similarly VY shows a combination of size, elusiveness, leadership and athleticism which are individually matched by other players but are exceedingly rare in their combination. Both have proven they deserve consideration for the #1 pick IMO. All this cruddy running down one or the other to make one look better is sad IMO.



Well yeah, other than that one... it's their best argument.

I hate giving you positive rep points........ but you really deserve on for this objective post.......


Kudos.

kastofsna
04-11-2006, 07:00 PM
That, IMHO is their best Argument........ much better than the Vince isn't a real Quarterback(as if Reggie is a real running back). Or the...... "no one is going to tailor an offense to a Quarterback, but they will tailor it around a Runningback", or his game won't translate to the NFL.

But why would you take a player with the #1 overall, if you can get him at 7, or 11??
his game DOESN'T translate to the NFL. much like any QB from texas tech or hawaii. or any product of a pass-happy zone-read spread offense. he doesn't have a great arm, he doesn't have good mechanics (terrible footwork), he struggled in a pro-style offense when he was in it, ran too much....what about his game translates to the NFL? he's a huge project and shouldn't be a first rounder.