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View Full Version : Is Andre Johnson all he's cracked up to be?


Marcus
04-08-2006, 11:50 AM
Since there is a lot of talk going on about Eric Moulds, and whether we're either overestimating or underestimating what contribution he'll make to the team . . .

. . . I'd like to discuss AJ himself.

Is he really that good? I know he's made the Pro Bowl, but from watching the past couple seasons, I've tried to see how good he really is . . . and I actually used Corey Bradford as a benchmark for a comparison. :shocked

Here me out, OK? I don't really want to talk about how many catchable balls he's dropped. That really doesn't bother me.

What does bother me about him . . . is that dispite the fact that he's a big physical beast with 4.3 speed, he never seems like he gets separation from his coverage. I don't remember, ever . . a time where he has beaten his man on a 'go' route. Maybe he's really not that fast on the football field. Maybe he's not very good at running routes. Now, of course I know that he's double-covered all the time. But the point I'm trying to make, is if he's got the physical size and speed of a Terrell Owens or a Randy Moss, and if he's supposed to be as talented as those two, then he should be able to shed his defenders like those two, dispite the double coverage.

And he doesn't. At least, not from my view. :twocents:

BREAZE
04-08-2006, 12:06 PM
He made the pro bowl being double covered most his career playing for a team that never had a true #2 WR....yes he's that good.

Diehardtexan
04-08-2006, 12:16 PM
No

Actually he is better. Let them try to double cover him this year.

Marcus
04-08-2006, 12:18 PM
He made the pro bowl being double covered most his career playing for a team that never had a true #2 WR....yes he's that good.
When was the last time you saw AJ get behind his coverage on a go route, or a deep post, or even going across the middle? I've seen deep balls, where he goes up with his defender(s). But when was the last time you saw AJ shed his defenders, either going deep or across the middle? I never have.

Moss, TO, and other elite receivers can get away from that double coverage. Why can't AJ?

Marcus
04-08-2006, 12:27 PM
Dude IF your a TRUE TEXAN FAN, you would never ever bring up that point about the greatest WR the texan's have ever had now and present. Don't even attempttalkin' bad about him, besides DD, he's the only soul we got on this team unless we draft VY.
:ok: Excuuuuuse me! Everyone else is fair game, but he isn't, huh?

Lucky
04-08-2006, 12:31 PM
...But when was the last time you saw AJ shed his defenders, either going deep or across the middle? I never have.
AJ has had his moments where he took over. The problem has been consistancy. Just as you can put a large part of the blame on others (pass blocking, scheme, QBing), Andre has to take some responsibility. He has to improve on the little things, like working back to the QB after the play has broken down and positioning himself between the ball and the defender.

But like Carr, AJ has been a victim of poor coaching. I expect Johnson to improve under the new staff just as I think Carr will. And you know, Reggie Bush & Eric Moulds will help Andre see a few single coverages. When you consider size, speed, & strength - AJ is the premier athlete at WR in the NFL. I think that will reflect on the field more than ever this season.

mexican_texan
04-08-2006, 12:34 PM
:ok: Excuuuuuse me! Everyone else is fair game, but he isn't, huh?
BLASPHEMY! As Jabar Gaffney said, it is hard to get open when your QB is sacked halfway through your route. The thing about AJ is that he can't throw the ball to himself. I try to not hate on D-Carr, but he just doesn't have great field awareness. Part of that might be the O-line, but when he does get good protection, his reads are slow and he might just dump it off to DD.


Watch the Jaguars game. He had a pass over the middle that he almost took to the house.

nunusguy
04-08-2006, 12:34 PM
I think AJ having a talented WR like EMO (I like that nickname!), on the other side of the field is gonna be almost as important to him as dependable pass blocking will be for Carr.

Exascor
04-08-2006, 12:38 PM
Dude IF your a TRUE TEXAN FAN, you would never ever bring up that point about the greatest WR the texan's have ever had now and present. Don't even attempttalkin' bad about him, besides DD, he's the only soul we got on this team unless we draft VY.So a true fan can't question a player's skills? A TRUE fan will not blindly accept that their team is full of the best players in the game and coached by the best coaches. Even the best players on a team can be evaluated. Nobody is off limits. Sorry.

At this stage of his career, AJ is only slightly better than Carr. All the points in the original post were fairly accurate. AJ doesn't have the ability (or knowledge) to consistantly beat double teams.

Could this change with the moves the Texans have made this offseason? The moves should help AJ, Carr and the o-line look better than in the past. They may even get some Probowl votes because of the changes.

Will AJ be as good as TO, Moss or Harrison? Only time will tell.

Malloy
04-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Dude IF your a TRUE TEXAN FAN, you would never ever bring up that point about the greatest WR the texan's have ever had now and present. Don't even attempttalkin' bad about him, besides DD, he's the only soul we got on this team unless we draft VY.

I'm sorry but that's just complete crap. Asking this question, without bitching, moaning and whining is the basis of what constitutes a good post.

Marcus: You have a point. Has he failed to progress or are we seeing yet another result of poor coaching? Will he be able to pick it up again, will he be that #1 reciever that most fans think he should be?

This year I think we'll know for sure (if we were not already thrilled by Andre Johnson) whether he can cut it amongst good WR's. He'll see competition from GOOD recievers, and perhaps we'll realize that he's not as good as he's been cracked up to be. Alternatively he'll shine and we'll all know for sure that he IS that good, even when competing against the likes of Moulds.

New coach, new playbook, new recievers and a new level of comparison.

BREAZE
04-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Moss, TO, and other elite receivers can get away from that double coverage. Why can't AJ?
I would rather attemp to tackle either of those 2 than I would AJ. I'm guessing those around the league feel the same way. He is embarking on a ton of yards after a catch with single coverage. I'll take several of those type situations in a game rather than over a couple of low percentage long balls. Plus, we don't call many long ball plays because the time needed in the pocket has not been there...its a wasted wind sprint.

mexican_texan
04-08-2006, 12:44 PM
I would rather attemp to tackle either of those 2 than I would AJ. I'm guessing those around the league feel the same way. He is embarking on a ton of yards after a catch with single coverage. I'll take several of those type situations in a game rather than over a couple of low percentage long balls. Plus, we don't call many long balls plays because the time needed in the pocket has not been there...its a wasted wind sprint.
Hey David! I'm Op...I'll help you up...

PapaL
04-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Aj wasnt just double teamed, he was triple teamed most of last year. Kinda hard to get behind the secondary when there are three of them on you.

BradK10
04-08-2006, 12:52 PM
I forget which game it was, but I recall AJ having a 50+ yd TD catch on a seam right down the middle of the field where he seemed to be a good 3-5 yards behind everyone.

mexican_texan
04-08-2006, 12:54 PM
I forget which game it was, but I recall AJ having a 50+ yd TD catch on a seam right down the middle of the field where he seemed to be a good 3-5 yards behind everyone.
I think that was the Jaguars game in Houston where we wore the Battle Red.

ATX
04-08-2006, 12:58 PM
Yep,it was the Jags game

HoustonTexans
04-08-2006, 01:01 PM
Ummmmm, yes Andre is THAT GOOD. When you try and compare him to T.O. and Moss about being able to break double teams... that's complete bogus. T.O. can break double teams because of protection and time the QB has. McNabb sat in the back field for 14 seconds one time running around the pocket and ended up completing a pass. Also, Moss is well, he is Moss. Him and Culpepper made a nasty team, but then look at Moss on the Raiders... not the same Moss we saw when him and Culpepper were a couple. I htinkn given a chance with new coaching, weapons (Eric Moulds and Jeb Putzier and Reggie) there is no way Andre doesnt have an Elite WR year this year because he is THAT GOOD.

Runner
04-08-2006, 01:18 PM
Three points:

1) In 2004 Dre made some catches across the middle where he'd break the first arm tackle and go for a bigger gain. I think this type of route, with a run-after-catch, is where his combination of power and speed will make itself felt.

2) I can't evaluate him by last year's performance any more than I can most of the other players on the team. The demoralization and poor coaching took its toll on everyone. He needs to work on his hands like he did in camp prior to the 2004 season though.

3) I hope the new coaches allow Carr to throw some balls to Dre when he's covered and let Dre use his athleticism to come up with the ball. This was strictly against the rules with our previous, conservative coaching staff.

Bobo
04-08-2006, 01:23 PM
He made the pro bowl being double covered most his career playing for a team that never had a true #2 WR....yes he's that good.

Um, he stacked up his stats in the first half of the year he went to the Pro Bowl. When they started double teaming him later on, his stats went down. Gaffney was a decent WR#2 -- after all, they call them WR#2s for a reason -- they aren't #1. Gaffney did well last year when he subbed as #1 for Johnson when he was out. Gaffney was no Reggie Wayne, but he was adequate.

Bobo
04-08-2006, 01:25 PM
I can't evaluate him by last year's performance any more than I can most of the other players on the team. The demoralization and poor coaching took its toll on everyone.

This stuff about blaming the previous coaching staff for everything that went wrong is ridiculous. Johnson was hurt a large part of the year and when he came back he wasn't his normal self. It wasn't the coaching staff's fault that Andre Johnson got hurt.

Lucky
04-08-2006, 01:32 PM
...It wasn't the coaching staff's fault that Andre Johnson got hurt.
Getting hurt is one thing. What about when AJ went ballistic in the Chiefs game? Or when he stopped on his route in the Jax road game on what would have been a sure TD? Or when he allowed Troy Vincent to get through him for an interception in the Bills opener? The lack of discipline in Johnson's (and others) game was a reflection on the previous staff.

Malloy
04-08-2006, 01:35 PM
LOL, good stuff :)

Runner
04-08-2006, 01:36 PM
LOL, good stuff :)

Oops - not any more. Sorry guys.

aj.
04-08-2006, 01:40 PM
Yes

barzilla
04-08-2006, 01:46 PM
I think asking questions about anyone from the last regime is difficult because it is all so interrelated.

1) We'll never know how bad the coaching really was because the talent wasn't there.

2) We'll never know how bad Casserly was because the coaching was bad.

3) We'll never know how bad Carr was because he had few people to throw to and little time to throw.

4) We'll never know how bad the OL was because Carr held the ball too long at times and they didn't have a #2 reciever.

5) We'll never know about all of those players because of the poor schemes.

It was all so interrelated that we really won't know until this season. Is it fair to question AJ? Sure, it's fair to question everyone, but I'm just not sure we will have satisfactory answers.

HJam72
04-08-2006, 01:46 PM
I think it's AJ's fault that the coaching staff got fired and he's holding back the whole team, especially that Pro Bowl caliber QB, David Carr. :tomato: :tomato: :tomato:

All I can really say is that sometimes great players are on bad teams and they can't always look good under those circumstances. Even D-Rob looked bad a few times last year.

BREAZE
04-08-2006, 01:50 PM
Um, he stacked up his stats in the first half of the year he went to the Pro Bowl. When they started double teaming him later on, his stats went down. Gaffney was a decent WR#2 -- after all, they call them WR#2s for a reason -- they aren't #1. Gaffney did well last year when he subbed as #1 for Johnson when he was out. Gaffney was no Reggie Wayne, but he was adequate.

Gaffney is no TO either as we will find out next year. Gaffney is a decent WR, but a true #2 gets open more often than not on single coverage. That's how a dual combo is effective. We have not had that...we do now and with Mathis and the addition of Bush we will more than be addressing that need.

Plus Moulds and AJ seem to have a pretty tight relationship. If the work atmosphere improves typically so does performance. I expect AJ to have a break out year if the QB protection improves...this is still the "X" factor for this offense.

Bobo
04-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Gaffney is no TO either as we will find out next year. Gaffney is a decent WR, but a true #2 gets open more often than not on single coverage. That's how a dual combo is effective. We have not had that...we do now and with Mathis and the addition of Bush we will more than be addressing that need.

Plus Moulds and AJ seem to have a pretty tight relationship. If the work atmosphere improves typically so does performance. I expect AJ to have a break out year if the QB protection improves...this is still the "X" factor for this offense.

Like I said, if the line doesn't improve drastically, I don't care if you have Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne out there. Moulds will go through the same frustrations he did this year with the Bills and will be very ineffective once again if the QB can't get him the ball due to the problems that Gaffney clearly stated about not being able to get halfway through his route before Carr was sacked. Muhsin Muhammad went from Carolina to the Bears this past season. Everyone knew his production would go down because the QB wouldn't be able to get him the ball and that's exactly what happened.

BREAZE
04-08-2006, 02:16 PM
Adding Bush and Moulds will cut down on the blitzes thrown at us...too many quick dump options and too many assignments for the opposing defense. Plus we won't have the same line out there...

TexanFan881
04-08-2006, 02:54 PM
AJ was basically the #1 and #2 WR on our team, and Gaffney and Bradford were #3's. AJ constantly got double covered and thanks to a huge running threat, a TE that can catch, and Eric Moulds I would think that this could be AJ's best year as an NFL player.

Marcus
04-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Yes
That's your problem, aj . . . you're way too long and drawn out with your replies, and it takes you the longest time to finally get to the point.:D :respect:

Seriously though, I realize there were many things wrong with this team, coaching first and foremost. Carr deserved his share of the blame. After four years, he's still not quick enough to make the correct read before he gets sacked. I admit that, and let's hope Kubiak is good enough to correct it. But what I do know is that Carr, (and all of you know this) always looked for AJ first on passing plays. That's why he was double-teamed. But if the only time he's going to get open for a pass longer than 10 yards downfield, is when he's single covered . . .

. . . well, that's not my definition of an elite wide receiver. He needs to be able to shed double-teams if he wants to be legitimate Pro-Bowler. Not someone elected by his team because he just happened to be the best of a bad lot.

I forget which game it was, but I recall AJ having a 50+ yd TD catch on a seam right down the middle of the field where he seemed to be a good 3-5 yards behind everyone.
:hmmm: . . .so, is the JAX game the only game in the last 3 years where has done something like that?

Texans Horror
04-08-2006, 03:12 PM
Great question.

When talking Dre, I like to think about the U. When Dre played there, the U had an excellent quarterback and an NFL-calibre runner. Dre, however, was not the only great receiver at Miami, and IMO, he seems to play better when he is surrounded by other great players. So bringing in Reggie and adding Moulds should elevate his play. Note: I'm not saying he is any less likely to be double-teamed or that his life will be easier. I'm wanting to point out that I think his play will be elevated as he is surrounded by other great players.

I heard/read recently that Moulds and Dre sat around talking about all the possibilities and where they take this team. I think this is Dre at his best. He honestly wants to excel in Houston. As he surrounds himself with better players, he will compete harder. This will be a great year for him.

Marcus
04-08-2006, 03:21 PM
I heard/read recently that Moulds and Dre sat around talking about all the possibilities and where they take this team. I think this is Dre at his best. He honestly wants to excel in Houston. As he surrounds himself with better players, he will compete harder. This will be a great year for him.
I hope so. If it will be a great year for Dre, then it will be a great year for everyone else.

El Amigo Invisible
04-08-2006, 10:46 PM
Dude IF your a TRUE TEXAN FAN, you would never ever bring up that point about the greatest WR the texan's have ever had now and present. Don't even attempttalkin' bad about him, besides DD, he's the only soul we got on this team unless we draft VY.
All I know is that every defense has only had him on their mind.He has been their main concern. He is very talented and any coach will tell you that.

Frank_The_Tank
04-09-2006, 04:14 AM
Only a guy who is not a Texans fan would make a thread like this.. Go back to your hole and choke yourself. The only legit reciever on this team and you write some crap like this. If you put AJ on a trading board, every team in the league would be beating down the door trying to make a offer. If they would have benched Carr and let Banks play last year we would not be sitting on the number one pick in this years draft. Send AJ deep and have someone with a tad bit of accuracy and he would be like Randy Moss scoring 10 to 14 TD's a year.

MightyTExan
04-09-2006, 10:14 AM
Didin't the WR's run a lot of option routes? As I understand it those types of routes need time for the WR to run his route and the QB to adjust to the WR. I hardly recall seeing any slant plays, and those where the ones that AJ usually made good yardage.

tsip
04-09-2006, 10:18 AM
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it bothers me when someone uses excuses not to perform at their best doing whatever it may be...and, this bothers me even more when they are getting paid while they are finding reasons to justify not performing at their best. AJ was in his 3rd year, DRob his 2nd, and Carr his 4th and none had good years last year and we sit back and make excuses for 'less than spectacular' performance on the field from each of them. My parents raised me to be the 'best I could be.' In the work place, this meant giving 101% regardless of anything else around me--set the example, be a leader.

NFL players make a lot of money, more money in a /short' period of time than most people will see in their entire life, so it is hard for me to understand why it's ok for a player to be paid millions and not do the job to the best of their ability. It is a given that every player in the NFL faces the same variables at their position as every other player, though the timing of those variable may be dfferent. What is not always the same is the way that player deals with the 'tough times'--some players step their play up a notch, some remain the same, some give less effort because everything is not the way they want. Team work means everybody is suppose to work toward common goals, but getting everyone 'on the same page' doesn't always happen over night. The key point is a 'core' of players that set an example of excellent play/teamwork all the time--rain or shine, these players can be counted on to give maximum effort--an effort that is contagious and spreads to other players around them. Unfortunately, the Texans are lacking this effort from several 'key' players and fans making excuses for them IMO only makes the situation worse.

The Texans are a business, a Sports Entertainment Business, and are expected to achieve results like any other business. When you go grocery shopping, you expect to find the products you want readily available-you are not interested in some employees 'personal' problems. Think about it--you can't get your groceries because an emploee only 'felt' like stocking half their normal load because they had issues!! Give me a break!

Cynthia Cooper-Head Coach, Prairie View, Women-was recently asked how many games she expected to win this year---her answer was all of them. When pressed by the reporter, she explained that it is all about 'expectations.' She said that you'll win a lot more games when your goal is 'all of them' than when your goal is 'half of them.' Expectations. IMO, the Texans have been selling themselves 'short'--maybe one more win than the previous season was too low a goal--what about accepting less than 100% effort from every player on the team? Will players really ever be the best they can be when we the fans--you know, the folks paying the bills--make excuses for their lack of results? JMO, but if the 'expectations' aren't 'high' enough neither will the 'results' be...:)

Kaiser Toro
04-09-2006, 10:24 AM
Until the front end of the passing game is fixed how can we accurately measure AJ? Most of his signature catches have been nothing but poor man's hail mary passes. Then there are the non stop hitches.

The coaching thing still kills me as Kippy Brown was a pretty qualified WR coach and was thought of well enough to have an interview for HC with the Texans and then brought onto to coach one of the NFL's top young duos with the Lions.

Once the passing game has the time and patience to go vertical we will have a better idea of what AJ can do. But the jury is still out on that.

Runner
04-09-2006, 10:27 AM
Until the front end of the passing game is fixed how can we accurately measure AJ? Most of his signature catches have been nothing but poor man's hail mary passes. Then there are the non stop hitches.



I wouldn't characterize many of those catches as "Hail Marys". I think they were examples of aggressive, attacking passing. We challenged the defense to take the ball from Dre if they could. They show what Dre can do with his athleticim when given the chance.

cuppacoffee
04-09-2006, 11:06 AM
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but it bothers me when someone uses excuses not to perform at their best doing whatever it may be...and, this bothers me even more when they are getting paid while they are finding reasons to justify not performing at their best. AJ was in his 3rd year, DRob his 2nd, and Carr his 4th and none had good years last year and we sit back and make excuses for 'less than spectacular' performance on the field from each of them. My parents raised me to be the 'best I could be.' In the work place, this meant giving 101% regardless of anything else around me--set the example, be a leader.

NFL players make a lot of money, more money in a /short' period of time than most people will see in their entire life, so it is hard for me to understand why it's ok for a player to be paid millions and not do the job to the best of their ability. It is a given that every player in the NFL faces the same variables at their position as every other player, though the timing of those variable may be dfferent. What is not always the same is the way that player deals with the 'tough times'--some players step their play up a notch, some remain the same, some give less effort because everything is not the way they want. Team work means everybody is suppose to work toward common goals, but getting everyone 'on the same page' doesn't always happen over night. The key point is a 'core' of players that set an example of excellent play/teamwork all the time--rain or shine, these players can be counted on to give maximum effort--an effort that is contagious and spreads to other players around them. Unfortunately, the Texans are lacking this effort from several 'key' players and fans making excuses for them IMO only makes the situation worse.

The Texans are a business, a Sports Entertainment Business, and are expected to achieve results like any other business. When you go grocery shopping, you expect to find the products you want readily available-you are not interested in some employees 'personal' problems. Think about it--you can't get your groceries because an emploee only 'felt' like stocking half their normal load because they had issues!! Give me a break!

Cynthia Cooper-Head Coach, Prairie View, Women-was recently asked how many games she expected to win this year---her answer was all of them. When pressed by the reporter, she explained that it is all about 'expectations.' She said that you'll win a lot more games when your goal is 'all of them' than when your goal is 'half of them.' Expectations. IMO, the Texans have been selling themselves 'short'--maybe one more win than the previous season was too low a goal--what about accepting less than 100% effort from every player on the team? Will players really ever be the best they can be when we the fans--you know, the folks paying the bills--make excuses for their lack of results? JMO, but if the 'expectations' aren't 'high' enough neither will the 'results' be...:)

This reads and sounds good...but....the players do not play up to the "fans expectations", they play to their own expectations.

Maybe this is what you are saying..that their expectations were not high enough?

Most of these players have been playing ball since they were in grade school. They know much more about coaching or a lack of it than the average fan/MB poster.

Our previous collage of coaches were not as good at coaching football as most of these players had recieved in college. It was obvious that several of the players performed better in their first year than they did after being coached down by Capers and Co.

D-Rob and AJ are prime examples of this, even everyones favorite whipping boy Babin was a victim of this..IMHO

This was blatently obvious to the players, and it was reflected in their lack of expectations to succeed on the field. It is only human nature, and believe it or not, these players are just human after all.

I've made my choice...I'd rather bash Capers and his cronies than our players.

Is this new group of coaches any better? idonno:

I was not in the 'hire Kubiak' group, but he is our coach now and I can only hope for the best.

Hopefully, at some future date, they will rename the :trophy: the Kubiak trophy.

:coffee:

run-david-run
04-09-2006, 11:13 AM
When was the last time you saw AJ get behind his coverage on a go route, or a deep post, or even going across the middle? I've seen deep balls, where he goes up with his defender(s). But when was the last time you saw AJ shed his defenders, either going deep or across the middle? I never have.

Moss, TO, and other elite receivers can get away from that double coverage. Why can't AJ?
That is a pretty good point, but I have seen AJ blow by his defenders mulitple times. The most obvious one is his TD catch against the Lions during his Pro-Bowl season when he outran double coverage for a deep TD. However, I agree with you that it dosnt happen often.

Also, Battle Red day this season he beat Rasheen Mathis on a deep post for a 53 yard TD...

run-david-run
04-09-2006, 11:18 AM
Since there is a lot of talk going on about Eric Moulds, and whether we're either overestimating or underestimating what contribution he'll make to the team . . .

. . . I'd like to discuss AJ himself.

Is he really that good? I know he's made the Pro Bowl, but from watching the past couple seasons, I've tried to see how good he really is . . . and I actually used Corey Bradford as a benchmark for a comparison. :shocked

Here me out, OK? I don't really want to talk about how many catchable balls he's dropped. That really doesn't bother me.

What does bother me about him . . . is that dispite the fact that he's a big physical beast with 4.3 speed, he never seems like he gets separation from his coverage. I don't remember, ever . . a time where he has beaten his man on a 'go' route. Maybe he's really not that fast on the football field. Maybe he's not very good at running routes. Now, of course I know that he's double-covered all the time. But the point I'm trying to make, is if he's got the physical size and speed of a Terrell Owens or a Randy Moss, and if he's supposed to be as talented as those two, then he should be able to shed his defenders like those two, dispite the double coverage.

And he doesn't. At least, not from my view. :twocents:

Also, on the point of double coverage. TO had Jerry RIce for much of his early playing days taking pressure of him and showing him the tricks of the trade. Randy Moss had Cris Carter. AJ has been a #1 from the time his name was called by Paul Tagliabue. He has never had an adjustment period. Hopefully, with the help of Kubes and EMO, we should see an even better AJ.

sprtsfanatic
04-09-2006, 11:28 AM
Also, on the point of double coverage. TO had Jerry RIce for much of his early playing days taking pressure of him and showing him the tricks of the trade. Randy Moss had Cris Carter. AJ has been a #1 from the time his name was called by Paul Tagliabue. He has never had an adjustment period. Hopefully, with the help of Kubes and EMO, we should see an even better AJ.

Thats a helluva point which many did not factor in...great post!

the wonger need food
04-09-2006, 01:05 PM
Dude IF your a TRUE TEXAN FAN, you would never ever bring up that point about the greatest WR the texan's have ever had now and present. Don't even attempttalkin' bad about him, besides DD, he's the only soul we got on this team unless we draft VY.

AJ is far from blameless in this team's failures. He drops balls, runs bad routes and can appear flat out lazy at times. Last year he basically quit (along with several other players) when he realized what direction things were going. So check yourself there TRUE TEXAN FAN.

Ibar_Harry
04-09-2006, 01:13 PM
There is anothe factor that many are not talking about and it has been with AJ since before the draft. That is he has good, but not excellent hands. The elite receivers get everything anywhere near them. AJ hasn't shown that ability since being a Texan.

When I talked about Moulds being a number 1 receiver I was roundly criticized because of AJ's being our number 1. If you have followed the comments from Buffalo you will find he just doesn't drop many balls and anything in his vicinity is assumed to be his. He may be older than AJ, but he will perhaps be what AJ needs to learn the ropes. Remember, Moulds has and does train a lot with JR.

Another big factor is that none of the recievers have been breaking their routes to help the QB when he was in trouble. This is either very very bad coaching of very bad recievers. This is some of the problem with the sacks and what Carr would be looking for when he was running out of bounds hanging on to the ball. That is the hall mark of a good reciever-qb combo. His key receiver knows when to help the QB out. If you watch Manning-Harrison you will see Harrison break routes to help Manning out and many of them go for substantial yardage. The QB leaving the pocket is to gain time to find someone, but if no one reacts there's not much you can do.

Given what we have done to the receiver coor during the FA period I believe the new coaching staff has decided that the old coor was very bad and that the coaches were unbelieveably bad. They won't say that, but actions speak louder than words. All of the receivers brought in have excellent hands and go after the ball. The gentlman from Cincy hasn't caught that many, but played extremely well in a playoff game and showed he has excellent hands. I really don't believe Gaffny will be missed and I'm pretty certain that Bradford won't be missed either.

I think AJ is at a cross roads and must come in an practice with the team and not go to the U this season. One of the 1st things Moulds said was I want to get back and start working out with the guys. The relationship between the receivers and the QB is not determined by TC. Its all of the long hours put in at other times between seasons that develop that special relationship. Before the U was a better place based on the coaching there vs here, but that's no longer the case. I want to hear that all of the receivers are burning the midnight oil with Carr.

Is AJ very gifted, no doubt. Has AJ been the victum of extemely bad coaching, no doubt. But just like Carr this is the year when AJ should begin to shine. It may take some time, however, to unlearn all, and I mean all, of the bad techniques taught by the previous staff. Will AJ be an elite receiver, I have my doubts because of his hands. Can he be an excellent receiver, no doubt.

Wolf
04-09-2006, 01:14 PM
as with all sports
I personally think the problems with the team was confidence.

confidence in the system, confidence in themselves, and confidence in their teammates..

That is why the the tough catches weren't made or the tough throws weren't made or the key blocks weren't made in "crunch-time"


and defensively you could say the key stops weren't made

infantrycak
04-09-2006, 01:50 PM
The elite receivers get everything anywhere near them. AJ hasn't shown that ability since being a Texan.

Andre Johnson dropped 4.4% of balls targetted at him last season, 2.9% the year before.

For comparison:

Steve Smith 4.67%
Santana moss 6%
Chad Johnson 5.8%
Larry Fitzgerald .6%
Anquan Boldin 3.5%
Torry Holt 4.9%
Joey Galloway 5.3%
Donald Driver 3.4%
Plaxico Burress 6.6%
Marvin Harrison .75%--2.9% in 2004, 4.9% in 2003
Terrell Owens 5.4%

That's the top 10 producers last year plus TO. Fact is every WR drops balls--we just remember the ones by Texans' WR's more. AJ definitely should continue to work on his hands but his drops are not so bad they will keep him from being an elite WR.

Ibar_Harry
04-09-2006, 01:55 PM
Andre Johnson dropped 4.4% of balls targetted at him last season, 2.9% the year before.

For comparison:

Steve Smith 4.67%
Santana moss 6%
Chad Johnson 5.8%
Larry Fitzgerald .6%
Anquan Boldin 3.5%
Torry Holt 4.9%
Joey Galloway 5.3%
Donald Driver 3.4%
Plaxico Burress 6.6%
Marvin Harrison .75%--2.9% in 2004, 4.9% in 2003
Terrell Owens 5.4%

That's the top 10 producers last year plus TO. Fact is every WR drops balls--we just remember the ones by Texans' WR's more. AJ definitely should continue to work on his hands but his drops are not so bad they will keep him from being an elite WR.

Again I will stress we will disagree about elite, but time will tell and success often times is a cure of a lot things. Certainly Rice didn't start out being a possession receiver, in fact quite the opposite. I have always felt that AJ would be held back by his hands and I think that is the case to now. However, that doesn't mean that he is or will be a poor receiver. I just think he will never attain the elite status, but this year is a new one and Moulds and our new coaching staff might change that. Again I have higher expectations of AJ than he has shown so far and that would be true of Carr too.

Wolf
04-09-2006, 01:59 PM
I wonder how "elite" some of the players would have been with Bradford as #2,Brunner at TE

not putting our players down, but they don't exactly command a double team to help free up AJ


edit* AJ went to the probowl when we hit him on the run with slants and such and let him use his size and speed to break things open and some reason last season we either changed our philosophy or defenses played to stop the slants

customdano
04-09-2006, 02:17 PM
I have much higher expectations. When AJ,DD,& Carr do not have to be the whole team so to speak we should see some great things from everyone. Balance will be the key to The Texans success not AJ,DD & Carr Though they are all capable.When The team goes out on the field this year it will command respect because it will have the "I" removed from it. The opposing team will not know for sure that we will run the ball on 1st, 2nd. and then have to throw on third to a receiver that is triple covered,or one that will probably drop the ball in a clutch,during an all out blitz. Kubiak has stepped down off the podium and has put himself on the field with the Team. The summ of all their parts will be Greater than anyone of them as a whole......Go Texans

Jwwillis
04-09-2006, 02:20 PM
umm...YES

Ibar_Harry
04-09-2006, 02:20 PM
I have much higher expectations. When AJ,DD,& Carr do not have to be the whole team so to speak we should see some great things from everyone. Balance will be the key to The Texans success not AJ,DD & Carr Though they are all capable.When The team goes out on the field this year it will command respect because it will have the "I" removed from it. The opposing team will not know for sure that we will run the ball on 1st, 2nd. and then have to throw on third to a receiver that is triple covered,or one that will probably drop the ball in a clutch,during an all out blitz. Kubiak has stepped down off the podium and has put himself on the field with the Team. The summ of all their parts will be Greater than anyone of them as a whole......Go Texans

I couldn't agree with you more. It appears we now have a TEAM. That's certainly what NE was and perhaps is no longer. If you had to fault Indy, it would be they are Manning, not a team.

customdano
04-09-2006, 02:35 PM
I couldn't agree with you more. It appears we now have a TEAM. That's certainly what NE was and perhaps is no longer. If you had to fault Indy, it would be they are Manning, not a team.


Thank you, Looking forward to "06" lost a lot of beer with optimistic hopes for "05" Half a dozen teams were Good enough to have Won the Super Bowl only one did looking forward to that Day.

Vinny
04-09-2006, 02:48 PM
Ted Marchibroda had some interesting comments last year. He was doing the color for the Colts (he is their ex-HC) and said that Carr was easy to defend because he struggles hitting players in stride and tends to throw to players standing still or coming back to the ball in zones. It had to be frustrating for AJ last year since he caught so many hitch passes where he was a sitting duck and was getting creamed as soon as he caught the ball. Carr has never been the kind of player to fit a ball in a small window....at least not yet. He has a lazer for an arm...but he is wooden and not real instinctive. I think this has hurt all the receivers...including AJ.

Ibar_Harry
04-09-2006, 02:53 PM
Ted Marchibroda had some interesting comments last year. He was doing the color for the Colts (he is their ex-HC) and said that Carr was easy to defend because he struggles hitting players in stride and tends to throw to players standing still or coming back to the ball in zones. It had to be frustrating for AJ last year since he caught so many hitch passes where he was a sitting duck and was getting creamed as soon as he caught the ball. Carr has never been the kind of player to fit a ball in a small window....at least not yet. He has a lazer for an arm...but he is wooden and not real instinctive. I think this has hurt all the receivers...including AJ.

Vinny he did in college. I still think a lot of what you saw was a reflection of the coaching style and playing not to loose. They emphasized not forcing anything. Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes - Don't make any cause we have no margin was the watch word. Lets see what this year brings Vinny, and if its the same thing, then I agree with you.

HJam72
04-09-2006, 02:56 PM
Ted Marchibroda had some interesting comments last year. He was doing the color for the Colts (he is their ex-HC) and said that Carr was easy to defend because he struggles hitting players in stride and tends to throw to players standing still or coming back to the ball in zones. It had to be frustrating for AJ last year since he caught so many hitch passes where he was a sitting duck and was getting creamed as soon as he caught the ball. Carr has never been the kind of player to fit a ball in a small window....at least not yet. He has a lazer for an arm...but he is wooden and not real instinctive. I think this has hurt all the receivers...including AJ.

If that's true, why was he considered one of the best QBs in the draft 5 yrs. ago? It's also hard for me to believe that he had success at the college level with that problem. Maybe Carr only has that problem when he's on the run and I would say that a lot of QBs do. I imagine it's pretty difficult to hit a receiver in stride while your also running from a DE, but, if he can't do it when standing in the pocket (what pocket? :confused: ), then that's a real problem.

It seems to me also that hitting moving targets is probably a matter of practice and somewhat muscle memory.

Vinny
04-09-2006, 03:20 PM
If that's true, why was he considered one of the best QBs in the draft 5 yrs. ago? So was David Klingler, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf and Andre Ware....all guys who were rated high. Just because you do well in College doesn't mean it translates. If we roll with Carr I'd love to see him live up to his cap hit. He is smart and has all the arm you want. How much can you 'coach up' to overcome a lack of instinct for the position? I donno. I've been waiting since 2002, so one more year isn't going to kill me I guess.

tsip
04-09-2006, 03:34 PM
If that's true, why was he considered one of the best QBs in the draft 5 yrs. ago? It's also hard for me to believe that he had success at the college level with that problem. Maybe Carr only has that problem when he's on the run and I would say that a lot of QBs do. I imagine it's pretty difficult to hit a receiver in stride while your also running from a DE, but, if he can't do it when standing in the pocket (what pocket? :confused: ), then that's a real problem.

It seems to me also that hitting moving targets is probably a matter of practice and somewhat muscle memory.

Carr better get use to throwing on the run because that's a big part of Kubiak's system, right?

customdano
04-09-2006, 03:49 PM
Carr better get use to throwing on the run because that's a big part of Kubiak's system, right?
Rolling out with your line and having some targets with "YAC" ability might be a little more than He has been used too but I think He's more than ready for the task.

tsip
04-09-2006, 04:54 PM
"the players do not play up to the "fans expectations", they play to their own expectations. "

...a player that has lttle or no self-motivation is not going to last long in the NFL IMO. If a player can only play his best when he exists in a 'perfect scenario,' he is in for a rude awakening. Bad coaching alone does not account 100% for missed tackles/dropped balls/poor reads/lack of effort,etc., especially when a player has been playing football his entire life. Putting forth maximum effort is not something that 'just' happens--it's part of 'who' you are as a person and should not depend upon everything going your way...

customdano
04-09-2006, 05:32 PM
Answer to start of thread Yes Andre is that good, Reply too other posts Andre is not a team and I am sure that no one on last years team went on to the field without the intention of Winning I am not a Caper hater or a Carr lover I am a Texan fan . I am from Fresno and have seen better days from Carr, but I will be a Texan fan long after he is gone. I believe this next season will produce greater numbers because i believe we will be less pedictable and more dangerous and many players will put up great #'s "ie" Andre,Moulds,DD,Bush,Putzier,Armstrong,Carr. If the team played up to my expectations we would win every game......... Reality Bites......Go Texans

Dunta_23
04-09-2006, 05:36 PM
I personally dont believe that AJ has cracked his full potential...therefor I dont think he is all he is cracked up to be on this board....he has BY FAR our best WR sicne hes been here but that also isnt saying alot...His numbers are reflectives of the team and David Carr's success...his breakout year was also the year DC threw for a bunch of yards and the team nearly went .500...AJ is no different than any other player in that he is going to have to step up to make this team successful....IMO his grade as a Texan so far is about a B-....

cuppacoffee
04-09-2006, 07:03 PM
"the players do not play up to the "fans expectations", they play to their own expectations. "

...a player that has lttle or no self-motivation is not going to last long in the NFL IMO. If a player can only play his best when he exists in a 'perfect scenario,' he is in for a rude awakening. Bad coaching alone does not account 100% for missed tackles/dropped balls/poor reads/lack of effort,etc., especially when a player has been playing football his entire life. Putting forth maximum effort is not something that 'just' happens--it's part of 'who' you are as a person and should not depend upon everything going your way...

In a perfect world...Yes.

But I believe human nature wins out eventually.

Our players must have done something right, most of them are still here.

Capers and company are gone. Not too many of them have been hired by other teams.

Now we will see what our players are made of.

utahmark
04-09-2006, 09:41 PM
i have not read all the previous posts. but my impression on andre is that he is a great athlete first and a receiver second. he doesnt always drag his last foot. he doesnt catch the ball well in traffic. he doesnt have great wr instincs.

he could be a very good wr. but wr is a postion he was put into because of his great athletic ability, not a postion he was "born for".

Wolf
04-09-2006, 10:46 PM
just wondering.. if AJ is 80 wonder what Moulds will be ? If I recall he was 80 with the Bills :stirpot:

TexanFan881
04-09-2006, 10:52 PM
just wondering.. if AJ is 80 wonder what Moulds will be ? If I recall he was 80 with the Bills :stirpot:

There's already a thread on this one :tv:

http://houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=20902

HJam72
04-09-2006, 10:55 PM
Carr better get use to throwing on the run because that's a big part of Kubiak's system, right?

He better do something right this year or he's toast.

Wolf
04-09-2006, 10:56 PM
There's already a thread on this one :tv:

http://houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=20902

thanks, I didn't even see that :brickwall

TexanFan881
04-09-2006, 10:58 PM
He better do something right this year or he's toast.

He's got the weapons
He's got a great NFL Head Coach as the Oline coach
He's got (I mean might get) Reggie Bush
He's got no excuse

Texas
04-09-2006, 11:05 PM
AJ is top 5 in the league.

Dime
04-09-2006, 11:17 PM
AJ is top 5 in the league.

Rofl. Maybe on our team he is a top 5, but he isnt near Top 5 WR in the NFL. He is good, but he has dropped way to many catchable passes he should have caught. He has to adjust more due to the thrower (see my notes on Carr), but he, at times, is decent. He also has his, 'No he didnt' moments (good thing), but he he aint doing that much either.

Johnson right now is probably should be ranked in the top 20 coming somewhere between 15 to 20 imo. That still is good, but he hasnt shown much else (not that he has had many chances to prove he is higher).

Bobo
04-09-2006, 11:28 PM
He's got the weapons
He's got a great NFL Head Coach as the Oline coach
He's got (I mean might get) Reggie Bush
He's got no excuse

That's ridic. His OL is basically the same. Until that OL proves they can keep people out of his face, he gets a pass.

Bobo
04-09-2006, 11:28 PM
He better do something right this year or he's toast.

You talking about Carr or Kubiak? If Kubiak, I heartily agree.

Wolf
04-09-2006, 11:36 PM
If Kubiak can't get Carr back to either 2004 level or above, I'd say Carr is done and I think Kubiak would give him 2 years.. 2nd year he should be producing at least above average in the league IMO

granted I know the team will struggle with a changing of everything but we have
added a legit Center,a legit TE,a real #2 WR and depending on the draft a possible fast Rb and who knows what else with the other rounds of the draft.

run-david-run
04-09-2006, 11:38 PM
Rofl. Maybe on our team he is a top 5, but he isnt near Top 5 WR in the NFL. He is good, but he has dropped way to many catchable passes he should have caught. He has to adjust more due to the thrower (see my notes on Carr), but he, at times, is decent. He also has his, 'No he didnt' moments (good thing), but he he aint doing that much either.

Johnson right now is probably should be ranked in the top 20 coming somewhere between 15 to 20 imo. That still is good, but he hasnt shown much else (not that he has had many chances to prove he is higher).
Did someone not just show the statistic? 4% of his passes this year, 2.9%of his passes last year where dropped. The whole dropped thing is overblown. Yes he has at times struggled, and they tend to come in bunches, but that is not something which will hold him back IF he is determined to improve on it. The offseason before his Pro-Bowl year, he worked extra with on his catching and it translated to great success. If he wants to be the best I think this team is ready to take him to some great individual success (along with a few W's along the way, of course).

Ibar_Harry
04-09-2006, 11:46 PM
If Kubiak can't get Carr back to either 2004 level or above, I'd say Carr is done and I think Kubiak would give him 2 years.. 2nd year he should be producing at least above average in the league IMO

granted I know the team will struggle with a changing of everything but we have
added a legit Center,a legit TE,a real #2 WR and depending on the draft a possible fast Rb and who knows what else with the other rounds of the draft.

According to David there are a lot of similarities with what he ran at Fresno State. If that's true perhaps he could be up too speed a lot sooner. Just wondering if we can be more optomistic. I think the real question will be whether the receivers get open and are in the places they are suppose to be. May be he has been waiting for people to get to where they were suppose to. All I know is that I'm hoping for one heck of a lot improvement by everyone on the offense. Our receiving coor should be a great deal better than last year.

Texans_Chick
04-10-2006, 01:08 AM
Ted Marchibroda had some interesting comments last year. He was doing the color for the Colts (he is their ex-HC) and said that Carr was easy to defend because he struggles hitting players in stride and tends to throw to players standing still or coming back to the ball in zones. It had to be frustrating for AJ last year since he caught so many hitch passes where he was a sitting duck and was getting creamed as soon as he caught the ball. Carr has never been the kind of player to fit a ball in a small window....at least not yet. He has a lazer for an arm...but he is wooden and not real instinctive. I think this has hurt all the receivers...including AJ.

Nice points. Though he sure did hit Gaffney in stride last year in the shoulder pads--part of me wonders if that play was the straw ended up with Gaff to the Eagles--sure was memorable.

I will say that it is hard to tell how much of Carr is Carr and how much of it is the system they were trying to do. Interesting hearing Carr talk about the current offensive scheme feeling more like what he did in college.

As for AJ, he wasn't OK for much of last season. The back of the knee injury he had is super painful and when he came back, he was not 100%. I have no doubt that if he is healthy, he is going to tear things up--if his stats are down at all, it will be because it won't be just the AJ show. Last season, the team made a point to say they were gonna try to find ways to get the ball to AJ more. (the hitch, puke) If everyone knows that this is what you are trying to do, you will never get the ball in good position.

If we have an offense with a legit TE, legit pass catching stud running backs, a legit second receiver, trying to find ways to get the ball to AJ won't be an issue. He will get his catches and when he does he will have more room to run after the catch.

BTW, I think it is cool that AJ recruited Moulds to come here. The best players want good players around them. It instantly makes everyone better and it is nice to have a mentor that you can respect.

The key is the oline--the book against the Texans has been to bring the kitchen sink against Carr with a cover 2. Hopefully that book gets changed.

Texas
04-10-2006, 01:31 AM
I disagree...AJ is one of the top 5...I see it Randy Moss - Marvis Harrison - TO - Chad Johnson - Andre Johnson...Whos better fit to take his 5th? The reason he dropped soo many catchable passes is because they 90% of the time came his directio alot faster then they should because Carr had to realease it before getting sacked...Give it a line and even ur W's would look better...Ok maybes hes top 10 because Hines Ward is as good and im sure theres a few more im not looking at.

Vinny
04-10-2006, 01:37 AM
Now we can all sleepJK:) ........Remember this is all opinion and I really think some of you guys perception on Carrs game is faulted do to the fact of the coaching he has recieved those far.
We will see though right.:)I hope you are right. I wouldn't mind being wrong on this at all. I'm ready to see our new team on the field, purged and ready to compete.

HJam72
04-10-2006, 02:36 AM
I think AJ was top 5 at one time (first half of 2004) and has the potential to be even #1 (possibly), but he's only top 20 in terms of overall perfermance so far. Some of that is his fault, but most of it is coaching, Carr, O-line, no #2 (until now), etc.

Bobo
04-10-2006, 02:56 AM
I disagree...AJ is one of the top 5...I see it Randy Moss - Marvis Harrison - TO - Chad Johnson - Andre Johnson...Whos better fit to take his 5th? The reason he dropped soo many catchable passes is because they 90% of the time came his directio alot faster then they should because Carr had to realease it before getting sacked...Give it a line and even ur W's would look better...Ok maybes hes top 10 because Hines Ward is as good and im sure theres a few more im not looking at.

Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Joe Horn, Steve Smith, etc

rittenhouserobz
04-10-2006, 07:13 AM
I think their a some factors that determined AJ's success. I know they might have been discussed, but here is what I think the problem is.

1. OL - Carr has an average of say 2 seconds with a 4-man rush and 1 second for a blitz before the pass rush has arrived, not enough time for AJ

2. coverage - Defenses were able to roll coverage to AJ's side, because DD doesn't have break away speed and our other two WR's were single covered

3. attitude - I will put myself into the head of AJ: The Qb snaps the ball I beat the first guy. "Where's the ball?" Oh QB is sacked or running for his life again. Other scenario: WR screen to Aj (defense didn't see that coming)

Do you ever think he is tired of the same old stuff? This is just my list. The 3rd may not apply at all, but it seems like a basic human response to the situation.

Bearfan Blue and Orange
04-10-2006, 09:37 AM
Reggie Wayne, Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Joe Horn, Steve Smith, etc


Great point... Do not know if I would Reggie wayne it, but Definitely Holt, Ward, Smith

Dime
04-10-2006, 08:17 PM
I disagree...AJ is one of the top 5...I see it Randy Moss - Marvis Harrison - TO - Chad Johnson - Andre Johnson...Whos better fit to take his 5th? The reason he dropped soo many catchable passes is because they 90% of the time came his directio alot faster then they should because Carr had to realease it before getting sacked...Give it a line and even ur W's would look better...Ok maybes hes top 10 because Hines Ward is as good and im sure theres a few more im not looking at.

So he is better then, all these folks.. I would agree on some.. but not all right now


Steve Smith..
Todd Pinkston
Reggie Brown
Terry Glenn
Plaxico
Toomer
Bradon Llyod
Muhsin Muhammad
Rod Smith
Ashley Lelie
Ike Hilliard
Michael Clayton
Joey Galloway
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Keenan McCardell
Eddie Kennison
Brandon Stokley
Chris Chambers
Justin McCareins
Roy Williams
Charles Rogers
Donald Driver
Rod Gardner
Bethel Johnson
Deion Branch
David Givens
Koren Robinson
Travis Taylor
Marcus Robinson
Drew Bennett
Tyrone Calico
Hines Ward
Donte' Stallworth
Joe Horn
Derrick Mason
Mark Clayton
Kevin Curtis
Torry Holt
Isaac Bruce

Carr Bombed
04-10-2006, 09:04 PM
So he is better then, all these folks.. I would agree on some.. but not all right now


Steve Smith..
Todd Pinkston
Reggie Brown
Terry Glenn
Plaxico
Toomer
Bradon Llyod
Muhsin Muhammad
Rod Smith
Ashley Lelie
Ike Hilliard
Michael Clayton
Joey Galloway
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Keenan McCardell
Eddie Kennison
Brandon Stokley
Chris Chambers
Justin McCareins
Roy Williams
Charles Rogers
Donald Driver
Rod Gardner
Bethel Johnson
Deion Branch
David Givens
Koren Robinson
Travis Taylor
Marcus Robinson
Drew Bennett
Tyrone Calico
Hines Ward
Donte' Stallworth
Joe Horn
Derrick Mason
Mark Clayton
Kevin Curtis
Torry Holt
Isaac Bruce

Steve Smith.. < AJ right now
Todd Pinkston < AJ
Reggie Brown < AJ
Terry Glenn < AJ due to age and the weopons around him
Plaxico > AJ, but lets see how he does on his own
Toomer < AJ
Bradon Llyod < AJ
Muhsin Muhammad < AJ, proved that last year when he moved to a bad offensive team like AJ
Rod Smith is = to AJ
Ashley Lelie < AJ
Ike Hilliard < AJ
Michael Clayton < AJ
Joey Galloway < AJ, hes a gunner that stretches defenses, AJ is more of a complete threat
Larry Fitzgerald > AJ, right now in the system he plays in, but you also have to take into account the excellent threat opposite from him
Anquan Boldin > See above
Keenan McCardell < AJ, again age issuess
Eddie Kennison < AJ, again age and talent around him
Brandon Stokley < AJ, imagine AJ in that offense and Manning throwing passes to him
Chris Chambers > AJ, can't argue here the guy had a great season
Justin McCareins < AJ
Roy Williams < AJ, but if put in another system would be one of the best recievers in the game.....hmm kinda like AJ (we'll see how his new sytem works out this year.)
Charles Rogers < AJ, wait a second, oh nevermind :rolleyes:
Donald Driver = or > than AJ, what can I say he's a proven vet, underated
Rod Gardner < AJ
Bethel Johnson < AJ
Deion Branch < AJ
David Givens < AJ, thank god he saw the Titans jersey and we didn't sign this guy for #1 money like they did. Moulds is better than him and ALOT cheaper
Koren Robinson < His career has been to shaky, had a solid year though, but need more
Travis Taylor < AJ
Marcus Robinson < AJ
Drew Bennett < AJ
Tyrone Calico < AJ
Hines Ward > AJ, The guy isn't a WR, He's a football player, plain and simple
Donte' Stallworth < AJ
Joe Horn > AJ, again really underated and is a proven Vet
Derrick Mason = or > than AJ and again is really underated
Mark Clayton < AJ
Kevin Curtis < AJ
Torry Holt > AJ, what can I say, the guy is a future hall of famer
Isaac Bruce < AJ

AJ is already better than most WRs in the league, put Moulds next to him and other weopons and lets see how he'll do

Dime
04-10-2006, 10:03 PM
Steve Smith.. < AJ right now - Rofl. not a chance.
Todd Pinkston < AJ - Agree
Reggie Brown < AJ - Agree
Terry Glenn < AJ due to age and the weopons around him - Ummm no
Plaxico > AJ, but lets see how he does on his own - Plex is better
Toomer < AJ - Agree
Bradon Llyod < AJ - Agree
Muhsin Muhammad < AJ, proved that last year when he moved to a bad offensive team like AJ - Ummm no
Rod Smith is = to AJ - Not a chance right now
Ashley Lelie < AJ - Agree
Ike Hilliard < AJ - Agree
Michael Clayton < AJ - Agree
Joey Galloway < AJ, hes a gunner that stretches defenses, AJ is more of a complete threat - unproven reliable threat so far
Larry Fitzgerald > AJ, right now in the system he plays in, but you also have to take into account the excellent threat opposite from him
Anquan Boldin > See above
Keenan McCardell < AJ, again age issuess - Age but has experience.
Eddie Kennison < AJ, again age and talent around him - Agree
Brandon Stokley < AJ, imagine AJ in that offense and Manning throwing passes to him - Agree
Chris Chambers > AJ, can't argue here the guy had a great season
Justin McCareins < AJ - Agree
Roy Williams < AJ, but if put in another system would be one of the best recievers in the game.....hmm kinda like AJ (we'll see how his new sytem works out this year.) - he is probably his equal
Charles Rogers < AJ, wait a second, oh nevermind :rolleyes: - Agree
Donald Driver = or > than AJ, what can I say he's a proven vet, underated - Agree
Rod Gardner < AJ - Agree
Bethel Johnson < AJ - Agree
Deion Branch < AJ - darn good.
David Givens < AJ, thank god he saw the Titans jersey and we didn't sign this guy for #1 money like they did. Moulds is better than him and ALOT cheaper - Agree
Koren Robinson < His career has been to shaky, had a solid year though, but need more - Agree
Travis Taylor < AJ - Agree
Marcus Robinson < AJ - Agree
Drew Bennett < AJ - Agree
Tyrone Calico < AJ - Agree
Hines Ward > AJ, The guy isn't a WR, He's a football player, plain and simple - Agree
Donte' Stallworth < AJ - Agree
Joe Horn > AJ, again really underated and is a proven Vet
Derrick Mason = or > than AJ and again is really underated
Mark Clayton < AJ - Agree
Kevin Curtis < AJ - I think he is better then people think he is.
Torry Holt > AJ, what can I say, the guy is a future hall of famer - Agree
Isaac Bruce < AJ - Umm he is better the aj right now.

AJ is already better than most WRs in the league, put Moulds next to him and other weopons and lets see how he'll do


Thats 14 I believe above AJ at this time. Plus the other 5. Puts AJ at number 20 on the list at this time.

Carr Bombed
04-10-2006, 10:15 PM
Thats 14 I believe above AJ at this time. Plus the other 5. Puts AJ at number 20 on the list at this time.

Yeah, but its alot bigger than that. Out of those 14 or 20 receivers, if you could switch places with them and AJ, would put up better numbers than AJ in this system. In case anyone hasn't noticed, this hasn't exactly been a stellar place for a WR to cut his teeth and play. Based strictly on potential there wouldn't be more than 3 receivers I would take over AJ, when I made the list I was speaking in the now (this season and previous stats over the last 3 seasons, which is why I gave a few Vets the nod) and trying to be unbiased, hopefully I did that.

Carr Bombed
04-10-2006, 10:23 PM
Oh snap....HEY Dime on the S. Smith I honestly got that backwards....sorry, I have tomorrow off and have been drinking, I hit the wrong <>. Smith is > AJ, but AJ is alot better than Terry Glen, I lived in Dallas, I know. He's nothing but a gunner. Keyshawn was the possession over the middle receiver (made the tough catches) and Witten made the middle of the seam catches, Terry was Bradford/Galloway with better hands. Trust me AJ is a better receiver. You put T. Glenn on this team make him the #1 and take away AJ and Glenn falls flat on his face, he was a #2 receiver on a aging receiver core for a reason


Also Issac Bruce is not greater than AJ, I don't even know how you can say that

Bruce only had about 30 catches and 500 yards on a offensive lead team in the crappiest division in football

AJ had twice as many catches and almost 200 more yards on a crappy defensive lead team in a tough division/conference without playing beside a hall of famer

Carr Bombed
04-10-2006, 10:37 PM
That must have took a while, I am giving you a aproval for just writting this. Hey how about a aproval for analyzing it :)

TreWardTxn
04-10-2006, 11:23 PM
AJ is without a doubt a top receiver in the league and can be a perennial pro bowler with a bit of help. Everyone on this board knows that AJ can play in this league, we aren't absolutely positive about other guys on the offense. Did/does he have weaknesses in his game? Yeah, he should be more consistent catching deep balls, but IMO he is one of the best short-route runners in the league and should flourish in the new offense. I do want to see the team not rely so much on WR screens (only when it's obviously there) and allow him to try to break routes he cathces 8-12 yards downfield...

mexican_texan
04-10-2006, 11:28 PM
When in doubt, whip it out! (Madden, that is)

TexanFan881
04-10-2006, 11:53 PM
Steve Smith.. < AJ right now
Todd Pinkston < AJ
Reggie Brown < AJ
Terry Glenn < AJ due to age and the weopons around him
Plaxico > AJ, but lets see how he does on his own
Toomer < AJ
Bradon Llyod < AJ
Muhsin Muhammad < AJ, proved that last year when he moved to a bad offensive team like AJ
Rod Smith is = to AJ
Ashley Lelie < AJ
Ike Hilliard < AJ
Michael Clayton < AJ
Joey Galloway < AJ, hes a gunner that stretches defenses, AJ is more of a complete threat
Larry Fitzgerald > AJ, right now in the system he plays in, but you also have to take into account the excellent threat opposite from him
Anquan Boldin > See above
Keenan McCardell < AJ, again age issuess
Eddie Kennison < AJ, again age and talent around him
Brandon Stokley < AJ, imagine AJ in that offense and Manning throwing passes to him
Chris Chambers > AJ, can't argue here the guy had a great season
Justin McCareins < AJ
Roy Williams < AJ, but if put in another system would be one of the best recievers in the game.....hmm kinda like AJ (we'll see how his new sytem works out this year.)
Charles Rogers < AJ, wait a second, oh nevermind :rolleyes:
Donald Driver = or > than AJ, what can I say he's a proven vet, underated
Rod Gardner < AJ
Bethel Johnson < AJ
Deion Branch < AJ
David Givens < AJ, thank god he saw the Titans jersey and we didn't sign this guy for #1 money like they did. Moulds is better than him and ALOT cheaper
Koren Robinson < His career has been to shaky, had a solid year though, but need more
Travis Taylor < AJ
Marcus Robinson < AJ
Drew Bennett < AJ
Tyrone Calico < AJ
Hines Ward > AJ, The guy isn't a WR, He's a football player, plain and simple
Donte' Stallworth < AJ
Joe Horn > AJ, again really underated and is a proven Vet
Derrick Mason = or > than AJ and again is really underated
Mark Clayton < AJ
Kevin Curtis < AJ
Torry Holt > AJ, what can I say, the guy is a future hall of famer
Isaac Bruce < AJ

AJ is already better than most WRs in the league, put Moulds next to him and other weopons and lets see how he'll do

The one's I bolded are the one's I don't agree with. I think you are underrating AJ just a little bit. I don't know how you can say that Plaxico is better than Steve Smith, Steve is one of the best if not the best WR in the league and Plaxico was very inconsistant at the end of the year.

Carr Bombed
04-11-2006, 12:21 AM
The one's I bolded are the one's I don't agree with. I think you are underrating AJ just a little bit. I don't know how you can say that Plaxico is better than Steve Smith, Steve is one of the best if not the best WR in the league and Plaxico was very inconsistant at the end of the year.

damn achohol.....look above, I already said I messed up on Steve Smith, I simply hit the wrong <> :brickwall ok. I listed Plaxico better because he's already proven what he can do on two different teams in two different systems under two different young QBs (look at the numbers), having said that does that mean I'll take Plax over AJ- No, I was simply taking off the Texans hat and being a unbiased fan, I like AJ much better, he has more upside then most if not all of the WRs on this list, but thats not what I was grading him against, that the reason why I even put Joe Horn ahead of him as far as last year goes, just trying to be unbiased

Dime
04-11-2006, 08:45 AM
Where i am coming from is proven players who have earned thier spot to AJ who has proven himself a bit, but not proven to be more then the others at this time. Now, that being said, he has potential to put most of them in the dirt, big time, but he just hasnt done it yet.