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View Full Version : Kubiak's future looks like it rests in the hands and shoulders of Carr.


phan1
04-07-2006, 05:54 AM
Anything can happen in the NFL, but right now, it's hard to imagine Kubiak staying if Carr fails to perform up to his billing. It looks like the couple are going to ride the same boat, and it really looks like sink or swim for them. If you believe that Kubiak can get us to the promise land, than you've got to believe Carr can too and vice versa. I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs". Honestly, I would not want Kubiak to continue to be the head coach if Carr flops, because that's pretty much the most important thing he brings to the table. Time to cross your fingers folks! Go team Kubiak/Carr!

On a side note, Andy Ried is another head coach that "knows QBs" and I'd say he's a darn fine coach. Knowing QBs also makes him a really good Offensive Coordinator as well, which hopefully brings Kubiak the same success. Of course you also had Norv Turner trying to be a head coach and we know how that all went...

FirstTexansFan
04-07-2006, 07:21 AM
There are easier ways to make yourself miserable. Contemplating the next firing of a head coach shouldn't be at the top of your list. Wishful thinking on your part perhaps?

OzzO
04-07-2006, 08:56 AM
Eh, I would say his future rests more on how well the entire team does and if it shows "correct" improvement and gets the fans excited again. Carr is a part of that, but if he doesn't perform and the rest of the team does (which you kinda need to be clicking on all cylinders) then he'll be gone before Kubiak.

cuppacoffee
04-07-2006, 09:13 AM
I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs".

I've read this a dozen times and I cannot decipher it.

Is it some sort of personal insight or just another form of Carr bashing? idonno:

Newsflash: The future of all coaches rests on the performance of their teams, not just the qb.


:coffee:

tsip
04-07-2006, 09:33 AM
My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.

Obviously, the 'powers that be' are comfortable so they have only one stand--Carr will be the answer and will not get injured. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch and hope/pray they are correct. Does Kubiak's career in Houston rest on Carr's shoulders?..who knows, but IMO it's kinda like driving your vehicle without liability insurance...someone is gambling the team won't pay now or later.

cuppacoffee
04-07-2006, 09:53 AM
My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.

Obviously, the 'powers that be' are comfortable so they have only one stand--Carr will be the answer and will not get injured. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch and hope/pray they are correct. Does Kubiak's career in Houston rest on Carr's shoulders?..who knows, but IMO it's kinda like driving your vehicle without liability insurance...someone is gambling the team won't pay now or later.

Finally found something I can agree on with a tsip.

So far the Rosenfelds signing is the only question I have about our offseason acquisitions.

I am not in the camp that says that someone has to be here to push Carr. I don't recall anyone pushing Elway, P Manning, Farve, or even Aikman. Either you have "it" or you don't have it. I will defend Carr until he has a surrounding cast and proves once an for all that we need to make a change. That hasn't happened yet.

But as tsip mentions, I don't feel comfortable with Rosenfelds. I was holding out hope for Ragone, but I guess Kubiak doesn't have the hope for him that I do.

:coffee:

Mike Kerns
04-07-2006, 10:04 AM
I am one of the biggest Carr supporters here. If he gets some time to throw the ball & make plays & he still doesn't perform, then I will go along with all this bashing. It's not like he has been Harrington, who had tons of weapons & time to throw the ball & just couldn't do it. Give him a chance.:twocents:

Bobo
04-07-2006, 11:10 AM
Anything can happen in the NFL, but right now, it's hard to imagine Kubiak staying if Carr fails to perform up to his billing. It looks like the couple are going to ride the same boat, and it really looks like sink or swim for them. If you believe that Kubiak can get us to the promise land, than you've got to believe Carr can too and vice versa. I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs". Honestly, I would not want Kubiak to continue to be the head coach if Carr flops, because that's pretty much the most important thing he brings to the table. Time to cross your fingers folks! Go team Kubiak/Carr!

On a side note, Andy Ried is another head coach that "knows QBs" and I'd say he's a darn fine coach. Knowing QBs also makes him a really good Offensive Coordinator as well, which hopefully brings Kubiak the same success. Of course you also had Norv Turner trying to be a head coach and we know how that all went...

More along the line of the offensive line -- and defense. Carr has already shown he can do the job in 2004.

thunderkyss
04-07-2006, 11:26 AM
If the QB doesn't do well, then the rest of the team won't do well. Even though Reggie Bush is supposed to be the next Barry Sanders, if teams can give minimal attention to the passing game, he'll have his work cut out for him. Kubiak's career in Houston, I don't particularly believe is married to Carr's future hear. Not yet anyway. If Carr struggles, and continues to show the problems that he has in the past, problems that you can't blame on the OLine, the running game, or the reciever talent, and Kubes still refuses to pull him...... then yeah, he'll go down with that ship.



My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.


I don't like this kind of thinking. I'd rather go with unknown backups hungry for a chance, than to have big name back-ups, that think they are good enough to start, and don't take any of the blame for their situation. Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, John Kitna to name a few. there are reasons these guys will be riding the bench next year, and IMHO, none of them have done anything to suggest other wise.

& I was a huge Kitna fan.

Dave Ragone has been a back up for 3 years now right?? Sage for 6...... we've got plenty of experienced back up QBs. From what I understand, Sage is the kinda guy that can come in off the bench, and actually do something. Will he be a starter?? who knows.......... but all the "experienced" guys out their have proven that they can't.

Now, I'd like for the Texans to draft Vince....... but that's only so he can "push" Carr by letting him know that 2006 will be a job Resume for him. If Kubiak really thinks David can be an Elite QB, then it makes no sense to Draft Vince.

I want an Elite QB, I think Vince can be Elite, I think Dave's shown that he can't. I understand you don't need to be Elite to win a Superbowl. I understand there are plenty of Elites past, present, and future that haven't/won't win a SuperBowl. So I can understand if GK passes on Vince.

But let's say you are a QB guy........ who do you draft?? An Elite RB?? or an Elite QB??

Mike Kerns
04-07-2006, 11:39 AM
But let's say you are a QB guy........ who do you draft?? An Elite RB?? or an Elite QB??

The elite RB. He helps make the QB an elite QB. See Drew Bress w/ Ladanian Tomlinson.:twocents:

Bobo
04-07-2006, 12:31 PM
The elite RB. He helps make the QB an elite QB. See Drew Bress w/ Ladanian Tomlinson.:twocents:

RBs are a dime a dozen. If they weren't, then the Colts would have kept James. If you have a good line, you can stick anybody behind it and it will succeed. If anybody should know that, it should be Kubiak.

bckey
04-07-2006, 12:42 PM
I am not in the camp that says that someone has to be here to push Carr. I don't recall anyone pushing Elway, P Manning, Farve, or even Aikman. Either you have "it" or you don't have it. I will defend Carr until he has a surrounding cast and proves once an for all that we need to make a change. That hasn't happened yet. :coffee:


That is what we will find out this year. Either Carr has it or he doesn't. The surrounding cast is here and the right coach is here.

Bobo
04-07-2006, 12:56 PM
That is what we will find out this year. Either Carr has it or he doesn't. The surrounding cast is here and the right coach is here.

I don't see any real change in the OL at this point. Flanagan is basically an old guy with just a year or two left who is pretty well beaten up. Besides him, the OL hasn't changed. Carr has already proven he can do the job -- something neither the OL nor Kubiak has yet to do.

thunderkyss
04-07-2006, 12:59 PM
If Jabar Gaffney leads Philly in recieving, if Milford Brown finishes the year starting for the Arizona Cardnals.... If our line at the end of the year is the same as it is now, we'll know we wasted another year trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Bobo
04-07-2006, 01:03 PM
There are easier ways to make yourself miserable. Contemplating the next firing of a head coach shouldn't be at the top of your list. Wishful thinking on your part perhaps?

Seeing that I didn't want Kubiak here in the first place, I contemplate it with relish.

Trenches
04-07-2006, 01:09 PM
a good TEAM doesnt need the QB to be the savior. IF we had a good defense and could run the ball well, Carr could be a 'caretaker' type of QB and probably do fine. Unfortunately, the way this team is being set up, Carr is going to have to do WAY more than he should have to. You can keep on kidding yourself, but this defense is going to stop nobody. Its obvious we are trying to recreate the 'greatest show on turf'. Should have hired Martz if they were going to spend all their money of the offensive side of the ball. face it, they are trying to get people back to the stadium.

SESupergenius
04-07-2006, 01:14 PM
How many times does it have to be stated, our success hinders on the abilities of the defense. I am judging Kubiak and Co. more on how they are doing in the defensive department instead of the offensive one. switching to the 4-3 alone may cure this, but there are just so many issues with the defense that it would be hard to rectify in one off-season. If Carr flops, we go after another QB in a couple of years, but Kubiak will be safe for at least 3 years because Carr was not his pick. He may have had input in keeping him, but ultimately is was based on the ineptitude of the previous coaching and current GM staff.

Bobo
04-07-2006, 01:50 PM
How many times does it have to be stated, our success hinders on the abilities of the defense. I am judging Kubiak and Co. more on how they are doing in the defensive department instead of the offensive one. switching to the 4-3 alone may cure this, but there are just so many issues with the defense that it would be hard to rectify in one off-season. If Carr flops, we go after another QB in a couple of years, but Kubiak will be safe for at least 3 years because Carr was not his pick. He may have had input in keeping him, but ultimately is was based on the ineptitude of the previous coaching and current GM staff.

I think it's clear a team can win with a mediocre QB. Look at the Ravens for example. They won the SB with Dilfer at QB. Then they turned around and got rid of him -- and haven't returned to the SB since. SD made the SB with Stan Humphreys at QB. That's why I believe that Carr, being at least as good as Dilfer and Humphreys (probably somewhat better for that matter) is more than competent to ultimately get the job done. He proved that much in 2004. But you aren't getting the job done if you are on your back looking at the sky for most of the game.

CoastalTexan
04-07-2006, 02:24 PM
Remember when Carr scored 24 points in one quarter against Arizona, calling his own plays Without D. Davis???? Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we had a field goal or something. I'd say dont bash Carr till he has a decent coach/line. I remember watching that quarter (something the ATX Vince Love crowd won't remember by the way) thinking dang, imagine if he did that the whole season.

phan1
04-07-2006, 05:08 PM
Just so you know guys I'm a total Carr supporter. Sorry if my post was overtly negative; it wasn't meant to be. I'm just saying that IMO, the success of Kubiak being our head coach has a whole lot to do with the success of David Carr because that is the #1 thing he brings to the table. Right now, he is mostly billed as the guy who is going to turn Carr around, turn our offense around, and help our offense win some games for once. I'm totally routing for Carr and Kubiak and hope that they can start winning some games.

But I'm also realistic. Carr hasn't been that great of a QB for us, and from history, it looks like he's becoming more of a "caretaker" than a bonefide playmaker. Right now, I think it's fair to say that he looks like a good version of Trent Dilfer. I'm really hoping Kubiak turns him into a playmaker, but the odds are probably 50/50 I think. We are definitely going to know what type of player he is after this upcoming season, cause all the excuses are going to end here. He now has the weapons; he has an average Oline if somebody is smart enough to put the right personel in. This is going to be Carr's guts or glory year IMO, and this really determines what direction our franchise is headed for the next 3-4 years.

bad
04-07-2006, 05:19 PM
But I'm also realistic. Carr hasn't been that great of a QB for us, and from history, it looks like he's becoming more of a "caretaker" than a bonefide playmaker. Right now, he looks like a good version of Trent Dilfer. I'm really hoping Kubiak turns him into a playmaker, but the odds are probably 50/50 I think. We are definitely going to know what type of player he is after this upcoming season, cause all the excuses are going to end here. He now has the weapons, he has an average Oline if somebody is smart enough to put the right personel in, this is going to be Carr's guts or glory year IMO. I totally agree. If Carr can't make a quantum leap this year it's probably best for all involved that he ply his trade elsewhere. It could easily be the best thing for Carr - the comparison to Dilfer is relevant - Dilfer struggled with Tampa Bay, went to a team with a great defense and now has more Super Bowl rings than Dan Marino.

Being the optimist that I am, I think we'll see a major turnaround for not only Carr, but the Texans as a whole.

The moment of truth is nigh; let the beatings commence!!!

tsip
04-07-2006, 06:22 PM
More along the line of the offensive line -- and defense. Carr has already shown he can do the job in 2004.

...you still don't get it--- 7 games (2004) does not a season make

phan1
04-07-2006, 07:14 PM
He should be at least an above average QB next year for me to continue to support Carr. Carr can still be a solid QB as a "caretaker", but when you got weapons like the ones we have, including the likelihood of getting Reggie Bush, even an average QB would have a good season. If Carr is a good QB, he should absolutely be tearing it up out there next year. If Carr is average, he should at least be getting above average numbers next year. And if Carr can't get the ball rolling with this cast around him, well, I don't even want to think about that. I don't think that's going to happen as I do believe he's shown that he's at least average; good enough to claim a legitimite starting position in the NFL.

Let's hope Carr's supporting cast is as good as it is on paper, cause I could name a dozen QB's who definitely wouldn't mind coming to Houston right now. :twocents:

TexanBacker93
04-07-2006, 07:22 PM
Remember when Carr scored 24 points in one quarter against Arizona, calling his own plays Without D. Davis???? Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we had a field goal or something. I'd say dont bash Carr till he has a decent coach/line. I remember watching that quarter (something the ATX Vince Love crowd won't remember by the way) thinking dang, imagine if he did that the whole season.

I think he had control of the plays in the first half of the Rams game as well. You know, when the offense actually produced touchdowns.

Bobo
04-07-2006, 07:48 PM
...you still don't get it--- 7 games (2004) does not a season make

How about 3,000 passing yards for a third-year expansion team. Does THAT make a season?

Bobo
04-07-2006, 07:50 PM
Remember when Carr scored 24 points in one quarter against Arizona, calling his own plays Without D. Davis???? Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we had a field goal or something. I'd say dont bash Carr till he has a decent coach/line. I remember watching that quarter (something the ATX Vince Love crowd won't remember by the way) thinking dang, imagine if he did that the whole season.

Don't knock Pendry in this case. He was just trying to do the smart thing and protect the lead. And it worked -- the Arizona game was one of the two they won.

Bobo
04-07-2006, 07:55 PM
He should be at least an above average QB next year for me to continue to support Carr. Carr can still be a solid QB as a "caretaker", but when you got weapons like the ones we have, including the likelihood of getting Reggie Bush, even an average QB would have a good season. If Carr is a good QB, he should absolutely be tearing it up out there next year. If Carr is average, he should at least be getting above average numbers next year. And if Carr can't get the ball rolling with this cast around him, well, I don't even want to think about that. I don't think that's going to happen as I do believe he's shown that he's at least average; good enough to claim a legitimite starting position in the NFL.

Let's hope Carr's supporting cast is as good as it is on paper, cause I could name a dozen QB's who definitely wouldn't mind coming to Houston right now. :twocents:

Umm, you can be a top five QB in the league and still be "average." After Peyton Manning, I can't say that any QB comes to mind who is "above average." Culpepper has gone downhill, McNabb isn't all that great, Palmer is hurt, Rothlisberger survives due to the Pitt running attack, the Pats make Brady look good ... we could go on and on. Carr can be just average with average stats and still be a top 5 QB.

PATexansFan
04-07-2006, 08:17 PM
David Carr rules. All the doubters will be proved wrong this year. :superman::texans: :survivor: :monkey:

phan1
04-08-2006, 01:36 AM
Umm, you can be a top five QB in the league and still be "average." After Peyton Manning, I can't say that any QB comes to mind who is "above average." Culpepper has gone downhill, McNabb isn't all that great, Palmer is hurt, Rothlisberger survives due to the Pitt running attack, the Pats make Brady look good ... we could go on and on. Carr can be just average with average stats and still be a top 5 QB.

Hey you've got a real good point there. I can't name a single QB that can be considered well above average without having great people around them. I think McNabb could be considered great, as he did go to a couple pro-bowls before TO and played with a really mediocre recieving core. And Jeff Garcia never went to a probowl without TO. Average QBs tend to also have average talent around them. Seems to be a pattern here... :) I can hardly even name a couple crappy QBs who had great talent around them but just wasn't good enough to get them the ball. Tom Maddox is really the only guy in recent memory that wasn't able to get it done. Maybe Joey Harrington as well. Reflecting on what I just said, QBs are SO OVERRATED! There's some food for thought...